Cell production costs, OUCH! [Archive]

Red Cloak

11-19-2005, 09:49 AM

SO, HOW MUCH DOES a Cell cost? Other than the fact that you can't buy one right now, and the Playstation 3 is about a year out, it does cost money to make. From what we understand, each wafer run through the fab costs $9-10K, and IBM gets about 65 good chips per wafer.

This would put each raw Cell on sale at a price tag of almost $150 give or take a bit. Toss in $25-30 for the packaging, and you are at a non-trivial number for a console. Assuming $175 for a 'solder to the board' working Cell, and you are at about half the cost of the console with just the CPU. Add in the GPU, RAM and a HD, and you are in loss-leader territory.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27809

A wafer is SUPPOSED to produce 198 chips. 65 chips per wafer is just pitiful, and with IBM going full force on the X360 chipset, not sure how much better things are going to get.

These estimates put the cost of the console at way above $500, selling 10 million at a $200 loss would cost them way more than they can afford to spend at this point. Any way you slice it things are looking bleak for Sony.

Varsity

11-19-2005, 11:07 AM

They've got a year plus to get production costs down, remember.

Borys

11-19-2005, 11:09 AM

There are long comments and there are too long comments.

Morrolan

11-19-2005, 11:10 AM

Well, I think a 200 dollar loss is a bit of an excessive estimate. If they sell the thing for $400.00 US (essentially the same launch price as the 360, not counting the POS core version,) I think they could be taking as little as $50.00 loss. Cell is hugely new and costly to manufacture, but they're still going to be able to make all the other components in the tried-and-true fashion. Given the benefits of mass production, I think they could get the rest of the thing made, assembled and packaged for about $300.00. That'd put them at $450.00-$475.00.

But yeah, Sony isn't looking to take any loss at all, right now.

Kelegacy

11-19-2005, 11:13 AM

There are long comments and there are too long comments.

Borys, meet Red Cloak. If the ignore list could extend to newposts, my life would be that much easier.

bobbler

11-19-2005, 11:13 AM

Right, because theinquirer is known for their fantastic validity of their news.

1) IBM isn't fabbing for Sony.

2) Sony is disabling 1 SPE for PS3, the cells IBM are fabbing aren't having disabled SPEs -- even a small portion of a chip disabled (especially on a chip with 8 identical pieces to choose their disabling from) can do wonders for yields. (The chips IBM are making are going to companies like Mercury Systems for their blades)

3) Sony may know a bit more about making a console within a certain cost spec than you or the inquirer.

H.Bogard

11-19-2005, 11:14 AM

things are looking bleak for Sony.

I think NOT...they will just ship the ps3 with a piece of shit cheap version of the processor that doesnt live to the hype and it will still sell like hotcakes because its supposed to run MGS4.

TheEpicOfTyler

11-19-2005, 11:18 AM

I laughed when I saw who posted this.

Captain Awesome

11-19-2005, 11:24 AM

Ken said the PS3 will bring Jesus back to Earth. Jesus will then step on your kids balls.

Doomsday

11-19-2005, 11:26 AM

Red Cloak news posts are a joke. Your comment was longer than the news you quoted.
Summary: "PS3 will cost more to produce than they can sell it for! Just like every iteration of the Playstation before it!"

Red Cloak

11-19-2005, 11:33 AM

Right, because theinquirer is known for their fantastic validity of their news.

1) IBM isn't fabbing for Sony.

Since when? :rolleyes:

WileE.Coyte

11-19-2005, 11:37 AM

I wonder how much the PS3 is going to cost? With Blu Ray and Cell it seems Sony is jumping into the Neo Geo catagory. Sony can't be that stupid to go there. Even if the PS 3 has a high Def DVD player I personally won't spend over $450 for a console and thats only if it lives up to be the miracle machine it's hyped up to be. A notch or two above the 360 won't cut it.

bobbler

11-19-2005, 11:37 AM

Since when? :rolleyes:

Since always?

Sony has their Nagasaki fab they are going to use to fab it? 90nm 300mm SOI/Low-K -- the works. They spent 3 billion on it in the last few years partly to fab the Cell -- they've been using some of it for PSP/PSTwo chips for the last year or so.

Suicidal ShiZuru

11-19-2005, 11:40 AM

A freaking year. Dont bother trying to predict how much something is or isnt going to cost right now its jsut gonna turn into a bitching fest...

Red Cloak

11-19-2005, 11:41 AM

Since always?

Sony has their Nagasaki fab they are going to use to fab it? 90nm 300mm SOI/Low-K -- the works. They spent 3 billion on it in the last few years partly to fab the Cell -- they've been using some of it for PSP/PSTwo chips for the last year or so.

SCEI's Nagasaki fab is for research and dev, not mass production. Do your research.

bobbler

11-19-2005, 11:44 AM

The Nagasaki fabs are for research and dev, not mass production. Do your research.

How ironic, coming from you.

Likewise, I'd suggest you actually look at the Nagasaki fab and whats been done to it in the last couple years.

Just to make it easier for you, in a matter of 12 seconds I found a few links.

Here: (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/24/sony_samples_cell/)
Initial batches of Cell chips will roll off IBM's East Fishkill, New York fab, but Sony wants to make the chip too, and began work on is 300mm facility just over a year ago.
Here: (http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=HDKOIOT0ZQPBUQSNDBCCK HSCJUMEKJVN?articleID=20900206&_requestid=172350)
The first Cell chips will be fabricated at IBM's Fishkill, N.Y., fab, but Sony is also preparing for volume production of the Cell processor, which will be the core of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.'s (SCEI) next-generation game console.
Here: (http://www.deviceforge.com/news/NS9084193059.html)
Initial production of Cell processors is slated to begin this year, first at IBM's East Fishkill, NY 300mm fab, and later at Sony Group's Nagasaki Fab.

Its been said a few times by Sony themselves that the PS3's Cell and RSX will be fabbed by Sony.

Zeal

11-19-2005, 11:52 AM

Then what was all this crap about Cell being cheap to produce, requiring little electricity, and running fast without putting off heat?

Does Sony just try to make stuff up now or what.

Oh, and 65 good chips per wafer? Prepare for your PS3 to break, that's all I gotta say.

Dakar

11-19-2005, 11:54 AM

Ok what the hell is with this guy's newsposts. I'm noticing a really disturbing trend. They can almost ALL be divided into either Anti-Sony or Pro-MS.

Im new so i'm not sure if there are policies on bias in the news posts. So I'm just wondering out loud what the deal is.

Anti-Sony:
Cell production costs, OUCH! (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7242)

Technology Pundits: "Bankruptcy looms for Sony" (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7014)

PS3 Online: Live in your world.... and stay there (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6727)

Sony's Akihabara Press Event: Still no playable PS3 games??? (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6484)

Sony's Online Plans Still in Stone Age (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6392)

GeForce 7800 LESS powerful than PS3??? (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4958)
(originally the opposite, but was corrected when people realized it was false)

EGM: FFVII remake not coming anytime soon? (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4950)

President of Square Enix: Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest to be Multiplatform Next Gen (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4145)

Total Videogames: Sony loses support of Nippon Ichi (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4225)

Pro-MS:
Project Gotham Racing 3: Crowd Control (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5274)

Ghost Recon X360: Prepare the clean underwear (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5242)

Cliffy B on X360: "This thing is a BEAST" (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5167)

Zeal

11-19-2005, 11:56 AM

Oh wait, this is the guy who originally posted the Geforce 7800/PS3 story? Thanks for the warning.

::ignores thread::

bobbler

11-19-2005, 11:58 AM

JediSanf

11-19-2005, 12:05 PM

Since when? :rolleyes:

Given that the Inquirer neglected to provide any sourcing whatsoever (I bet a little birdy told 'em) for this story the research takes a bit more work.

I tappears that there are three (3) fab lines for Cell production all with some Sony funding. As stated just above me the fab the story is probably refering to is East Fishkill, NY.

It is important to note that despite Sony investment these chips are not being used by Sony. IBM makes them, and IBM is selling them. Namely for their server blades which can be purchased now and which cost a hell of alot more than a console. It is also important to note that East Fishkill is the oldest of the three lines and it can be safely assumed that the problems found there will be solved before Oita (Toshiba's fab) and Isahaya, Nagasaki (Sony's main fab) ramp up to full production.

Sources:
EETimes.com (http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=CNQESZPJZOGZGQSNDBGCK HSCJUMEKJVN?articleID=20900206&_requestid=162506)
TechWeb (http://www.techweb.com/wire/26804065)
Asia Times (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/FB04Dh01.html)

Sorry Red Cloak, your propagandist bullshit holds no weight here.

Onea

11-19-2005, 12:31 PM

Red Cloak's posts are exactly the shit I was commenting on in that other thread. The person approving his posts should be shot. If he's approving his own somehow, the person who gave him that power should be shot.

Rakael

11-19-2005, 12:45 PM

I am beginning to believe the remark someone made about Red Cloak being J. Allard more and more as he continues to post this drivel.

I am sure Sony is willing to take a loss, they have to be with all of the recent bad press and the production costs of the PS3. They way they are tracking; this could very well be the end of the Sony corporation as we know it. However, I seriously doubt they will go down without a fight, and certainly wouldn't take as big a loss on the cell alone as this "news" post implies, what with profits being down already.

If this is the end of Sony, you can bet that it will not be the end of the Sony name, nor will it be the end of Sony products. Sony as a company is not stupid, and will offer to partner with another corporation, whether it’s one already in the tech market or one seeking entry with a wad of cash, following Square's lead. As you can see from the recent demo, Square-Enix is still putting out Squaresoft legends such as Final Fantasy. The same will be true for Sony and the PS3. There is simply too much money to be made for the PS3 to flounder, someone will step up and offer additional funding for a cut of the profits.

Some are hoping Sony will crash and burn, many with very valid reasons due to Sony's practices in both the past and, more importantly, the crap they have pulled lately. One of my feet is planted firmly on this camp's side of the fence, I must admit. There are also more than a few out there who are just fanboys of MS and wish to see all opposition fall beneath the 360. I'm afraid this just won't happen though, however much it would delight both groups. One way or another Sony and the PS3 will survive and be a force to be reckoned with this generation, whether or not they are far and away the sales leader.

Vandenh

11-19-2005, 01:09 PM

Right now Cell is a collosal failure.

Mass production of PS3 will make Cell much more attractive money wise, but it will never achieve anything outside PS3. You can put that in your sig ;)

Magnanimous Gnome

11-19-2005, 01:21 PM

Right, because theinquirer is known for their fantastic validity of their news.

I've had to say this before, but it bears repeating:

The Inquirer is not the same as The Enquirer. The former is a British gaming website, the latter is a trashy American tabloid. I keep seeing people confuse the two.

I'm not saying that The Inquirer is the end all/be all of gaming news of course, but they are not on the level of The Enquirer by any means. I see where the confusion comes in though.

Just to make it easier for you, in a matter of 12 seconds I found a few links.

To be fair though, those very links do in fact explicity state that IBM is doing at least some of the fab on Cell chips for Sony. Red Cloak appears to be right about this part. I'm not defending the guy though, his posts are obviously meant to stir up shit and promote his bias.

Santa is a pedophile. =/

Thanks for the warm childhood memories. ;) :eek: :confused: :(

mister_slim

11-19-2005, 01:49 PM

Right now Cell is a collosal failure.

Mass production of PS3 will make Cell much more attractive money wise, but it will never achieve anything outside PS3. You can put that in your sig ;)
I'm not going to waste a sig on that, but I think it pretty likely that we will see Cell variants in various information and entertainment appliances.

blackzc

11-19-2005, 01:52 PM

hippidy hooop laa.

I just hope gran turismo 5 inst a launch game, or else im screwed.

Schnoogs

11-19-2005, 02:11 PM

God i can't wait for Sony to get their asses kicked in this console war.

HumpYourWay

11-19-2005, 02:14 PM

A wafer is SUPPOSED to produce 198 chips.

A game news site is SUPPOSED to report news without commenting it (in a lame and biased way).

SuperMonkeyFighter2

11-19-2005, 02:24 PM

I think I'll wait for official announcements on this one. There is just way too much speculation in this to call this "news"

Serapth

11-19-2005, 02:36 PM

I think I'll wait for official announcements on this one. There is just way too much speculation in this to call this "news"

Ummm... yeah... if this is true, do you expect sony to hold a press conference and make the news official?

"Um... guys, bad news. We really fucked up on the cell and these things are killing us financially. Just so you know, we are going to add another 150$ to the cost of the PS3. So sorry"

Yeah... not gonna happen. Most of the time, bad news NEVER gets an official announcement.

That said, I generally just ignore these posts anyways.

Kelegacy

11-19-2005, 03:14 PM

A game news site is SUPPOSED to report news without commenting it (in a lame and biased way).
Or at least PRETEND to be objective. That's all I'm asking from people.

thFOOL

11-19-2005, 03:15 PM

A game news site is SUPPOSED to report news without commenting it (in a lame and biased way).

Your parentheses notwithstanding, I don't understand why people think this is strictly a game news site. "Daily gaming News ...With Attitude"- note the words 'with' and 'attitude'.

Every news item has it's own editorial commentary. get used to it.

bobbler

11-19-2005, 03:36 PM

I've had to say this before, but it bears repeating:

The Inquirer is not the same as The Enquirer. The former is a British gaming website, the latter is a trashy American tabloid. I keep seeing people confuse the two.

I'm not saying that The Inquirer is the end all/be all of gaming news of course, but they are not on the level of The Enquirer by any means. I see where the confusion comes in though.

I wasn't confused, the Inquirer is a bad news source for things you want to be certain on -- for speculation its fine. I wouldn't really call the Inquirer a gaming website, more of a PC hardware site really.

The Inquirer is generally a pretty poor site for anything outside of rumors. The writers on there are generally as skilled as a second grader and get their news from random people and other sites -- little of it is actually solid information. Now, don't get me wrong, I enjoy reading the Inquirer occasionally, but most of what is read there can be taken with a grain of salt as its a lot of guessing -- sometimes they are correct, sometimes they arent. They make tons of mistakes (even when they are mostly correct, the writers often don't know fully what they are talking about), and in this case they are making the mistake of assuming that IBM is fabbing cell and that IBM's Cell yields will be the same for Sony (which isn't the case, Sony's has 1SPE redundant, which will rather largely increase yields right away -- and as time goes on, over the coming years they'll go much higher).

Fuad bugs me a lot, mostly because he loves to post news on graphics related stuff, but has very little knowledge of what he speaks about. He'll often make ridiculous mistakes like assuming pixel pipelines directly relates to how many pixels per clock a gpu can render, which is silly -- and for anyone whos in his position and seemingly only posts about graphic related stuff, its rather disheartening to see him make mistakes of that level.

Sorry for the mini Inquirer rant.

To be fair though, those very links do in fact explicity state that IBM is doing at least some of the fab on Cell chips for Sony. Red Cloak appears to be right about this part. I'm not defending the guy though, his posts are obviously meant to stir up shit and promote his bias.

IBM is producing ones for their blades, and ones for companies like Mercury Systems -- they are making Cells, so is Toshiba, but the Cells going into PS3 are being made by Sony (same with RSX). Sony spent a good deal of money helping Toshiba and IBM upgrade some of their fabs (along with Sony's own) to be able to mass produce these chips. Those links were just a few to point out that Sony is making Cells as well, not that IBM wasn't -- the initial batches of Cells are indeed from IBM, but those won't be going to PS3s (maybe they will to help out with initial demand? who knows, but more importantly is the 1SPE redundancy which the Cell's IBM is currently making don't have the luxury of having). The false assumption is that all Cells being made are going straight to Sony for their PS3.

Mercury Systems (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/18/mercury_cell_turismo/) has been rather active with Cell recently -- thats where IBM's cells are mostly going, Mercuy and a few other companies, for now.

Thanks for the warm childhood memories. ;) :eek: :confused: :( :p

ezra

11-19-2005, 04:08 PM

Red Cloak! lol!

Alex

11-19-2005, 04:31 PM

Kelegacy

11-19-2005, 04:42 PM

Fanboy or not he does bring up a real (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2005/10/sonymicrosoft.html) problem (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2005/11/next-gen-hardware-costs.html). According to Sony's earnings announcement last month they had sales $14.74 billion and a net income $247 million which included a one time gain of $637 million. Their gaming division's operating profit was $71.1 million.

Microsoft, on the other hand, had sales $9.74 billion and a net income $3.14 billion which included a one-time charge of $361 million. Their gaming division lost $141 million.

The PlayStation is critical to Sony's bottom line while the Xbox barely makes a dent in Microsoft's. Merrill Lynch estimates that the Xbox 360 will initially cost $340 per unit (premium, not core) to manufacture, while the PS3 will cost $495. Sony can't afford to eat those costs for long while Microsoft can afford to eat as much as it needs to.

Personally, I don't want to see either side win the console war and unless you've got a lot of Microsoft or Sony stock options you shouldn't either. One side or the other winning will only hurt consumers.
Hopefully both fucking companies die, or at least while they fight some new competitiors enter the arena. Two other completely new console companies, to go with Nintendo. Heh, wishful thinking perhaps.

As long as a system continuously releases RPGs (Western, Japanese, European, whatever) that aren't Diablo gameplay clones or MMOs, I'll be there. The reason I care so much about RPGs is because they are usually the genre that is represented weakest, especially in Western markets. Look at the Xbox, for example. The PS2, however, has a bevy of RPGs that makes me physically ill to think about...ill in a GOOD way, a "holy fuck, that's a lot of games/hours I need to catch up on" way.

The other genres I don't worry about, because they'll be represented in droves.

Achilles

11-19-2005, 04:47 PM

Wasn’t the Inquirer the same publication that said no games were multi-threaded on the 360? They’re really trying to build a reputation over there.

I don’t have a problem with Red Cloak posting these rumors though, we get a lot of rumors on this site.

Serapth

11-19-2005, 05:51 PM

Fanboy or not he does bring up a real (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2005/10/sonymicrosoft.html) problem (http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2005/11/next-gen-hardware-costs.html). According to Sony's earnings announcement last month they had sales $14.74 billion and a net income $247 million which included a one time gain of $637 million. Their gaming division's operating profit was $71.1 million.

Microsoft, on the other hand, had sales $9.74 billion and a net income $3.14 billion which included a one-time charge of $361 million. Their gaming division lost $141 million.

The PlayStation is critical to Sony's bottom line while the Xbox barely makes a dent in Microsoft's. Merrill Lynch estimates that the Xbox 360 will initially cost $340 per unit (premium, not core) to manufacture, while the PS3 will cost $495. Sony can't afford to eat those costs for long while Microsoft can afford to eat as much as it needs to.

Personally, I don't want to see either side win the console war and unless you've got a lot of Microsoft or Sony stock options you shouldn't either. One side or the other winning will only hurt consumers.

Not that it really changes what you say, but your sales numbers for MS are based of their last quarter, not annual sales. MS takes in WAY more money then sony per year and has much higher profit.

Multiply the 9 million by 4 and you have an accurate idea of MS's annual revenue.

Opty

11-19-2005, 05:57 PM

Does that 65 number mean Cells with all 8 subprocessors or whatever working? Because if it is, that means all of the Cells with only 7 working ones, which would have been rejected if they're only looking for 8, could be used in the PS3, right?

Magnanimous Gnome

11-19-2005, 06:16 PM

God i can't wait for Sony to get their asses kicked in this console war.

As much as I dislike many of Sony's actions over the years, I still don't want to see them "get their asses kicked." To me this means they leave the market entirely, leaving MS as the one most likely to take over. I really don't want a market (another that is) controlled by Microsoft.

Before someone shouts bias - I don't want a market ruled by any company. Monopolies are bad.

Bobbler - Thanks for clearing all of that up. I've seen posts on here before along the lines of "Since when does the Inquirer *sic* post gaming news, and why on Earth are we quoting or reading any of it?" etc. I assumed (wrongly) that you were in this camp. Sorry about that.

I also understand what you meant with all the Cell fab IBM and Sony stuff now. Again, thanks for clearing that up. :)

I like Kelegacy's views on the console war. Let MS and Sony leave, and let some other company come in that's going to make game consoles, not widgets and whozats. Nostalgia alert - I wish the market was back to Nintendo and Sega, along with a third contender for good measure.

rein

11-19-2005, 07:16 PM

I like Kelegacy's views on the console war. Let MS and Sony leave, and let some other company come in that's going to make game consoles, not widgets and whozats. Nostalgia alert - I wish the market was back to Nintendo and Sega, along with a third contender for good measure.

Those were the days.. Nintendo, Sega and an obscure Neo, 3DO or Atari system to take up some slack. That was a kick ass time for gaming.

Nessus

11-19-2005, 07:28 PM

Oh, and 65 good chips per wafer? Prepare for your PS3 to break, that's all I gotta say.

Oh, I was already planning on that. *looks at his broken PS2, Discman, Sony MDR-V300 headphones, etc.*

lpmiller

11-19-2005, 07:28 PM

initial yields of any processor sucks. Then they get better. And cheaper. Not news.

Frogleg Special

11-19-2005, 07:35 PM

Just for fun. Add the list if you wish

High Degree of Anti Sony/Pro-Ms Bias: Red Cloak

Mid Degree of Anti Sony/Pro-Ms Bias: Fitbabits

Low Degree of Anti Sony/Pro-Ms Bias: Bapenguin

:)

Joking aside, I've never agreed and understand about one platform fanaticism. There can be 2-3 consoles in the world and you can have them all in your house. After all, this is the oligopoly which denies of a game price hiking to become nearly $100 if it's becoming a monopoly. Preference? Tell that to yourselves when you pound the same idea over & over ("Sony sucks. Kutaragi is satan") again. You don't need further justification of your preference.

Kelegacy

11-19-2005, 07:45 PM

Just for fun. Add the list if you wish

High Degree of Anti Sony/Pro-Ms Bias: Red Cloak

Mid Degree of Anti Sony/Pro-Ms Bias: Fitbabits

Low Degree of Anti Sony/Pro-Ms Bias: Bapenguin

:)

Joking aside. I've never agreed and understand about one platform fanatism. There can be 2-3 consoles in the world and you can have them all in your house. Preference? Tell that to yourselves when you pound the same idea over & over ("Sony sucks. Kutaragi is satan. MS rules") again.

Haha! I don't know if I laughed, but I sure did smile a broad one at your post. I would have switched bap and fitty around but that's just me.

Could you do one for Sony biases and one for Nintendo as well? Please?

Frogleg Special

11-19-2005, 07:48 PM

Haha! I don't know if I laughed, but I sure did smile a broad one at your post. I would have switched bap and fitty around but that's just me.

Could you do one for Sony biases and one for Nintendo as well? Please?

High Degree of Sony Bias: Kelegacy <-- :D

As for Ninty fans, I don't know any of them in here.

Kelegacy

11-19-2005, 07:57 PM

High Degree of Sony Bias: Kelegacy <-- :D

As for Ninty fans, I don't know any of them in here.

Wow. I might have said something more like this:

High Level Pro-Sony/Anti-MS bias - Pumped'Up

Mid Level Pro-Sony/Anti-MS bias - DirtyHarry

Low Level Pro-Sony/Anti-MS bias - Kelegacy

Still, those names are totally random...I couldn't think of as many Sony fans around here. I don't even know if Harry is a Sony fan, but I think I remember him making a thread about being angry at the Sony hatred around here. I could be wrong.

As for Nintendo...you have lovers and haters galore here. The biggest mixed bag of all.

Phades

11-19-2005, 09:25 PM

Count me in for the "it's stupid to make cost estimates a year before it comes out" camp. Especially with technology, it's worthless to say how much something costs to make right now as an estimate for how much Sony or any company is going to lose.

Heck, if anything it seems that $150 for a processor that's going to have a year to become cheaper is pretty good.

As for the idea of Sony and Microsoft going away, I disagree. I think Sony has done some great things for gaming and have completely enjoyed both of their consoles. I'm sure the PS3 will be awesome as well. I also think Microsoft has been good and I love my Xbox. I have a feeling that this next generation will be more like the 16-bit era. I think that there will be two major consoles (Microsoft and Sony) that have pretty even shares of the market. If either side has a majority, that'd probably be Sony. I'd love for Nintendo to be a top player again but sadly I just don't think it's going to happen.

rpdillon

11-19-2005, 11:23 PM

Since when? :rolleyes:

Err, umm, since forever?

This is from May in the EE Times, which knows more than you, eh? (http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=ACT2CV4T44OYSQSNDBECK HSCJUMEKJVN?articleID=20900206&_requestid=201427) Sure, they mention the Fishkill fabs at IBM for "the first" cell chips. And then go on to say that Sony will be handling volume production for the PS3. Even a modicum of research on your part would perhaps befit someone posting on a site as well known and respected as Evil Avatar.

Anyway, your blatant bias does get tiring.

Pantsmonkey

11-19-2005, 11:45 PM

Nintendo should give Sony $50 per console to install a wifi adaptor so the WIFI user base is much larger then we can all get on with the serious business of playing Mario Kart.

If we didnt debate (poorly at best mind you for the most part) the rise and fall of everything but videogames we would be a bit light on for stuff to talk about.

Sony can take massive losses on the first X % of PS3s Sony isnt exactly light on in the cash dept no one is running out of money anytime soon / ever.

A good game is a good game is a good game?

HumpYourWay

11-20-2005, 06:35 AM

Your parentheses notwithstanding, I don't understand why people think this is strictly a game news site. "Daily gaming News ...With Attitude"- note the words 'with' and 'attitude'.

Every news item has it's own editorial commentary. get used to it.
Not every news site has its own editorial commentary! There are lots of news sites who just report the news. Take ve3d for instance. A respected and unbiased newssite for years. Totally opposite to this mess here!
Of course A lot of news site have commentary but they are usually not as biased and stupid as on this site. Usually news site with editorial commentary feature editors with foresight and reason. Here you see when the editor has one of its bad days when everything seems to piss them off.

Come on, when there is a news item on this webpage and you read the editor name of "RedCloak" (LOL) or "Bapewhatever" (yikes) or "Fatbits" you know whats in store. And thats not a good sign for a newssite when its as clearly biased as this one... pffff

"Daily gaming News ...With Attitude"- note the words 'with' and 'attitude'?

Wrong, the slogan should either state:

"Daily gaming News ...With bad attitude"

or

"Daily gaming News ...totally biased by guys who hate their life but wank off to erotic super mario fanfiction or furry porn"

The only editor who is partially unbiased here might actually be Evil Avatar himself but he has his bad days aswell.

UPDATE: I removed the bush thing by request of a poster even though I still believe there is some correlation. But I understand why lots of people can't take critisism about their president. Its hard to swollow if you voted for that violent douchebag two times in a row ;)

Murmillo

11-20-2005, 06:45 AM

Not every news site has its own editorial commentary!
A lot of news site have but they are usually not as biased and stupid as on this site. Usually news site with editorial commentary feature editors with foresight and reason. Here you see when the editor has one of its bad days when everything seems to piss them off.

Wrong, the slogan should either state:

"Daily gaming News ...With bad attitude"

or

"Daily gaming News ...totally biased by guys who hate their life but wank off to erotic super mario fanfiction or furry porn"

The only editor who is partially unbiased here might actually be Evil Avatar himself but he has his bad days aswell.
Other then nobody here is ever paid for writing anything, you can't even all them editors. All they do is submit news like the rest of us and make sure that the name calling and other fourm harrassers are kept to a minium. This site is also largely reader-based submitted news. So even if somebody submits news thats largely biased, who gives a fuck, thats what we debate and read the commentary for - to either counter or confirm - biased or not. If you don't like reading commentary and debating news then this site is not for you.

I love seeing biased and wrong news, it forces people to use thier brain if they care enough to find out themselves if it is wrong or not. If you have only the time to read to news "bit" and not the commentary that is not our fault either. Some things are edited if its largely out of context, but for the most part every thing even biased has a grain of truth.

Edit: using the bush admin as an attack has lowered you to the ranks and depths of a troll. I suggest deleted it or not be taken seriously for the rest of your time on this site.

Serapth

11-20-2005, 09:35 AM

Yeah, gotta agree, the Bush shot was pretty stupid, and I fucking hate the guy :)

Wasnt even a good troll, and dog knows I appreciate a good troll

KidCactus

11-20-2005, 09:43 AM

So even if somebody submits news thats largely biased, who gives a fuck, thats what we debate and read the commentary for - to either counter or confirm - biased or not. If you don't like reading commentary and debating news then this site is not for you.

But when the news is this biased the debate is most probably going to be about the post itself and how it's written, or about the poster, and not the actual news. As I see it that's not a good thing for a news posting site.

Kelegacy

11-20-2005, 09:59 AM

But when the news is this biased the debate is most probably going to be about the post itself and how it's written, or about the poster, and not the actual news. As I see it that's not a good thing for a news posting site.
People can be biased and that's fine. But to newspost with that bias...that's something different. Leave your fanboy words for commenting or the adjacent forum threads, not main page news topics. It takes away any integrity the site tries to maintain.

For example, bapenguin posts mostly Xbox related topics but rarely does he create editorial laced with obvious bias or striven to bait the flamers.

I don't have a problem with corporate prejudice. Hate away, but like I said, leave it for the comments, please.

HumpYourWay

11-20-2005, 10:01 AM

Edit: using the bush admin as an attack has lowered you to the ranks and depths of a troll. I suggest deleted it or not be taken seriously for the rest of your time on this site.

Not be taken seriously!?!?
LOL!!!!
Sorry son but you miss the problem here!
The news post itself isnt taken seriously by lots of readers here because of the lame and biased comment of the editor.
By the way, I noticed you use the word troll. The more I think about it the more I think that word also fits perfectly to RedCloak. He started all the trolling here with his initial news post (by posting his uneducated comments)! Think about that...
You cannot call a news site serious if the news editors themself provide the grounds for a flame fest...

SuperMonkeyFighter2

11-20-2005, 11:26 AM

Ummm... yeah... if this is true, do you expect sony to hold a press conference and make the news official?

"Um... guys, bad news. We really fucked up on the cell and these things are killing us financially. Just so you know, we are going to add another 150$ to the cost of the PS3. So sorry"

Yeah... not gonna happen. Most of the time, bad news NEVER gets an official announcement.

That said, I generally just ignore these posts anyways.

Not quite what I meant, but your point is well taken. The piece was filled with speculation on pricing and losses. Sooner or later they will announce pricing, no? If the unit comes out at $399, then all will be happy in the land of Oz. However, anything higher, and it's a safe bet that the cell/blu-ray combo is taking its toll on the pricing. But without anything official in this capacity, then everything is just speculation.

SuperMonkeyFighter2

11-20-2005, 11:36 AM

Not be taken seriously!?!?
LOL!!!!
Sorry son but you miss the problem here!
The news post itself isnt taken seriously by lots of readers here because of the lame and biased comment of the editor.
By the way, I noticed you use the word troll. The more I think about it the more I think that word also fits perfectly to RedCloak. He started all the trolling here with his initial news post (by posting his uneducated comments)! Think about that...
You cannot call a news site serious if the news editors themself provide the grounds for a flame fest...

Well, your distaste for editorials aside, this is news that's reported nonetheless. It's not like anyone who reports it has made up the piece. Now, like just about every news forum in existance, the news can potentially be spun to the liking of the reporter. Some folks here are anti-sony. As a result, they will dig around and find facts to report about how Sony is in trouble. The post editorial usually sums it up about the person who reported the story. This is not a bad thing, as people have a voice here, and can use these forums as you have to refute the topic.
Like it or not, the editorials in the news bits have done their job, and have got you posting.