CNN: Xbox 360: Good, but not great

[Evil Avatar]

Looks like CNN is the first mainstream media outlet to give its thoughts on the Xbox 360.

The new Game Over column (http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/17/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/) deems the machine "good, but not great," citing a so-so launch line-up, but noting the system's potential for the future. The column also features a gallery of pretty outstanding rejected early designs for the system. This story focuses more on the hardware. It promises additional, specific coverage on the launch day games early next week.

[Rakael]

Oh hell, I just submited this too. Though its no suprise to be beaten to the punch by Lord Sata...err, Evil Avatar.

[Schnoogs]

Do I even care what CNN thinks?? I for one think it's funny when major news sites or organizations feel the need to tack on articles about movies and games or any other pop culture subject.

[Dabombpizza]

I love those early designs that didn't pan out. Especially the lunchbox design.

[Borys]

There's your Anti-360 news now...I hope you fuckers are happy.

Two in a row! Credibility GET!

:D

[XxSATANxX]

Though its no suprise to be beaten to the punch by Lord Sata...err, Evil Avatar.

Exsqueeze me? :D

I actually think most of what was said here is spot on. SONY sure has to be taking this all in thinking how'd we get here???

[ÜberJumper]

I gotta say, I really like the 360's case design.

[bapenguin]

Do I even care what CNN thinks?? I for one think it's funny when major news sites or organizations feel the need to tack on articles about movies and games or any other pop culture subject.

Chris Morris knows his stuff. He's not some lame corporate dude at CNN, he's a gamer.

[Rakael]

As do I. I'm also glad they went with the one they did. What was with that one that looked like a pillowtop mattress?

[mkelehan]

Those are all good points. The first season isn't really for the casual gamer, and by the time the supply and prices are at the point where casual gamers can get in, 20GB hard drives will be much cheaper. Brings me back to the point I keep making: the Core system is a huge freaking mistake.

[Doctor Setebos]

Chris Morris knows his stuff. He's not some lame corporate dude at CNN, he's a gamer.QFT

I trust Morris' opinion moreso than many established game (http://gamespy.com) sites (http://ign.com) out there.

[Vandenh]

Good not great?

Hehehe... I wondered what they said about console launches in the past?

"Weak not crap"?

No console has had a big fat launch lineup like this, and you get online and you get arcade.... what would be great? Timetravel? Aging of DVDs?

[GammaLeak]

Good not great?

Hehehe... I wondered what they said about console launches in the past?

"Weak not crap"?

No console has had a big fat launch lineup like this, and you get online and you get arcade.... what would be great? Timetravel? Aging of DVDs?
<nod> It's funny how MS has totally raised the bar and it will be interesting to see if Sony can actually counter.

[thecrazyd]

I don't care what anyone says, the launch lineup is weak. The only games that look interesting (to me) can be found on other systems.

[Citizen Philip]

CNN. The same website that said: If you want to see a good movie about Iraq, go see Three Kings, not Jarhead.

Uhuh.

[Captain Awesome]

Chris Morris knows his stuff. He's not some lame corporate dude at CNN, he's a gamer.


But he's a gamer dude who works for a lame corporate body :D

[Achilles]

I still don’t get the so-so launch lineup thing. It’s more big names than a console has ever had at launch. And the games have spent longer in development than during other console launches. Ah, whatever, I’m sure what the PS3 has in spring will put it in perspecitve.

[Serapth]

I don't care what anyone says, the launch lineup is weak. The only games that look interesting (to me) can be found on other systems.

Im curious then... what launch lineup did you like? If TES:Oblivion hadnt slipped, every type of game would have been presented at day 1 with this one. Do you even remember the PS2 launch lineup... compared to this one, it was a steaming pile of crap wsauteed in a nice piss sauce.

As to the gamecube... there were what, 6 games?

Xbox1... hmmm... take out Halo, and it had a few racing games, DOA, Fusion Frenzy and OddWorld.

Closest lineup ive seen to the size and scope of the XBox 360, was probrably the dreamcast. The only thing that hurt it was no EA Support. The XBox 360 however has the *biggest* lineup by EA at launch, ever.

Amazing how people seem to forget the past so quickly.

[Serapth]

CNN. The same website that said: If you want to see a good movie about Iraq, go see Three Kings, not Jarhead.

Uhuh.

They have lots of different writers, Chris is actually one of the better. My money says he is the best big media game writer out there. ... even though I hate CNN and disagree with him on this point.

[thecrazyd]

Im curious then... what launch lineup did you like? If TES:Oblivion hadnt slipped, every type of game would have been presented at day 1 with this one. Do you even remember the PS2 launch lineup... compared to this one, it was a steaming pile of crap wsauteed in a nice piss sauce.

As to the gamecube... there were what, 6 games?

Xbox1... hmmm... take out Halo, and it had a few racing games, DOA, Fusion Frenzy and OddWorld.

Closest lineup ive seen to the size and scope of the XBox 360, was probrably the dreamcast.

Amazing how people seem to forget the past so quickly.
Just cause other launchs sucked worse does not make this one great. There is nothing that appeals to me, just a slew of mediocrity. Everything that doesn't look like crap can be found elsewhere for 10 bucks less. This is why I don't buy systems at launch.

[Kelegacy]

Good not great?

Hehehe... I wondered what they said about console launches in the past?

"Weak not crap"?

No console has had a big fat launch lineup like this, and you get online and you get arcade.... what would be great? Timetravel? Aging of DVDs?

I still don't know what people are smoking when they say how great the launch lineup is. Where? Kameo and PDZ, that's about it. I'll give you PGR for race fans, though.

I know it's not a popular statement, but most of these other games are ports that can be played elsewhere. You can play them with just as much fun (sans a bit of eye candy and stylized sweat) on the other consoles/PC.

The launch lineup is standard. Not horrible by any means, but just more of the same stuff to be found elsewhere.

[Dabombpizza]

I still don’t get the so-so launch lineup thing. It’s more big names than a console has ever had at launch. And the games have spent longer in development than during other console launches. Ah, whatever, I’m sure what the PS3 has in spring will put it in perspecitve.
Every system launch is going to be mired with mediocre titles, it's just the nature of launching a new system with developers that haven't been coding on it for that long. I've never understood someone complaining about crappy system launch games, it's like they haven't been around for any other gaming generation.

The best system launches have one, maybe two "Killer apps". On the 360...uh...PD0 is the only thing I would buy, and even then I'm not too excited about it. And even if Oblivion made it on time, I would have still waited for it on PC.

[bapenguin]

CNN. The same website that said: If you want to see a good movie about Iraq, go see Three Kings, not Jarhead.

Uhuh.

Three Kings f'n rocks. Didn't see Jarhead yet...I heard it's good.

[Kelegacy]

Im curious then... what launch lineup did you like? If TES:Oblivion hadnt slipped, every type of game would have been presented at day 1 with this one. Do you even remember the PS2 launch lineup... compared to this one, it was a steaming pile of crap wsauteed in a nice piss sauce.

As to the gamecube... there were what, 6 games?

Xbox1... hmmm... take out Halo, and it had a few racing games, DOA, Fusion Frenzy and OddWorld.

Closest lineup ive seen to the size and scope of the XBox 360, was probrably the dreamcast. The only thing that hurt it was no EA Support. The XBox 360 however has the *biggest* lineup by EA at launch, ever.

Amazing how people seem to forget the past so quickly.

If we are going by how many ports a system can have, the PSP is the best launch ever in the history of videogaming.

If I'm being rational, yes, the Dreamcast was probably the best launch I can remember, but my memory is pretty unreliable these days. Also, even though the N64 only had 2 games available, it had the one game what brought more fun than any 10 normal games could possible create. The Gamecube was the only Nintendo console to fuck up in the succession of sweet Mario games.

[Gil]

The launch lineup is standard. Not horrible by any means, but just more of the same stuff to be found elsewhere.

I don't know, man, I'm most looking forward to Condemned: Criminal Origins, and I can't think of any other system out there that has a first person survival horror detective brawler on it.

[Serapth]

I still don't know what people are smoking when they say how great the launch lineup is. Where? Kameo and PDZ, that's about it. I'll give you PGR for race fans, though.

I know it's not a popular statement, but most of these other games are ports that can be played elsewhere. You can play them with just as much fun (sans a bit of eye candy and stylized sweat) on the other consoles/PC.

The launch lineup is standard. Not horrible by any means, but just more of the same stuff to be found elsewhere.

See... what your saying applies to *you*, not the world in general, especially the part about being available on the PC. Alot of people game on consoles only and those that dont, probrably dont have a PC to give COD2 the justice it deserves. As to whats good about it.

Well... I havent seen a review below 6.5 yet ( that was for Gun ), and the average seems to be about 8, thats pretty damned awesome for a launch lineup.

What else?
PDZ
PGR3
NFS
Madden
NHL2K6
NBA2K6
FIFA2K6
Condemned
King Kong
A new Tony Hawk ( although its supposedly shit )
Ridge Racer ( big deal in Japan )
DoA4 ( on the 10th )
Kameo

Yeah... some of those sports games are available on last gen systems, but they are the inferior versions. Thats a big deal to alot of people. So lets look at it from a buyers perspective.

Soccer fan? Check
Hockey? Check
Platformer? Check
Horror? Check
FPS? Big Check
Fighter? Almost Check
RPG? Nope
Race Fan? HUGE Check
Online fan? MEGA HUGE Check

Thats alot of the market! The only real glaring holes I see are party games ( DDR, etc... ) and RPGs. Frankly though, RPGs are rarely available ( or good ) at launch since they have such long dev times.

Thats not even bringing in Live Arcade, which has alot of appeal to the casual ( and in my case, Hardcore ) gamer.

All told, I still have never seen such a comprehensive list of launch games averaging good reviews. I say you either have a anti-MS bias, or have way to high of expectations if you dont see how complete this line up is.

[Achilles]

The best system launches have one, maybe two "Killer apps". On the 360...uh...PD0 is the only thing I would buy, and even then I'm not too excited about it. And even if Oblivion made it on time, I would have still waited for it on PC.Really, PD0? That's what marketing wants you to think the killer app is, I wouldn't buy it. Condemned is looking pretty good to me, but CoD2 will probably be the killer app. Sure people can play it on their PCs now, and for $10 less, but I get the feeling that most people are going to play it on the 360 and seeing that on a TV will be what drives system sales. Kameo might sell well.

Basically it's hard to tell what people will buy before it goes on sale. Who knew before GTA3 came out that it would be the best selling game of last gen? That was a killer app, but did it look like one before it came out or did it just look like these games; a good update to a well known series.

[Kelegacy]

I don't know, man, I'm most looking forward to Condemned: Criminal Origins, and I can't think of any other system out there that has a first person survival horror detective brawler on it.

Xbox. Call of Cthulhu. Released end of last month.

[Serapth]

The best system launches have one, maybe two "Killer apps". On the 360...uh...PD0 is the only thing I would buy, and even then I'm not too excited about it. And even if Oblivion made it on time, I would have still waited for it on PC.

Ah but thats the thing... everyones "killer app" is different, depending on what games you like. Frankly a killer app, is just an app that sells the system. For sports fans, its a game like Madden ( many many people didnt buy a DC because it didnt have Madden ), for race fans like me its PGR3 they buy it for, for platform lovers it would be Kameo, for FPS people it would be PD0 or CoD2.

[Serapth]

Xbox. Call of Cthulhu. Released end of last month.

And, wasnt there that game Clive Barker had a hand in writing?

[Achilles]

Thats alot of the market! The only real glaring holes I see are party games ( DDR, etc... ) and RPGs. Frankly though, RPGs are rarely available ( or good ) at launch since they have such long dev times.The fact that they're getting Oblivion so close to launch is crazy. I can't think of a time when a system got an expansive, good RPG less than a year from launch. Usually it's just stuff like Metal Dungeon, with the better ones being like Eternal Ring.

[RMan]

Although the launch lineup covers the bases well, none hit a home run for me, and I think that's the sentiment of the people disappointed with the launch. Lots of titles that are largely forgettable isn't impressive to many.

[Kelegacy]

I'll try to respond to you, Serapth.

PDZ - I want to know more about the game. But I'll give this one a nod out of "trust".
PGR3 - Another good game for racing fans. Worth a system on its own? I dont know
NFS - Buy it on regular XBox. Or PS2. Or whatever other console has it.
Madden - Same as above
NHL2K6 - Same as above
NBA2K6 - Same as above
FIFA2K6 - Sigh, this is getting tiring. Same as above.
Condemned - Worth a rental. Not a system seller. Price drop will make this game very appealing for an afternoon or two
King Kong - See: port + pretty = pretty port.
A new Tony Hawk ( although its supposedly shit ) Same as above minus pretty
Ridge Racer ( big deal in Japan ) I don't know what to say
DoA4 ( on the 10th ) Again, don't know. We're talking launch, though. No fair.
Kameo - YES. The one game I'd enjoy playing besides PDZ. But it also suffers from quick playthrough with little replayability. Would be nice after a price drop, but no matter how many systems this game jumps from, it has never screamed "Buy a console for me"

I don't have a MS-bias, not really. What I have is a launch-purchasing bias. It's not the price, because I can easily afford it. It's the practicality and rationale involved.

And we all know the PS3 launch will be shittier, so this personal bias transcends simple fanboyism.

[Kelegacy]

And, wasnt there that game Clive Barker had a hand in writing?
For PC, yes. The Undying. Good game, overlooked and undermarketed. Fucking Electronic Arts doesn't know what to do with a good game when they find one in their midsts.

[Dabombpizza]

Ah but thats the thing... everyones "killer app" is different, depending on what games you like. Frankly a killer app, is just an app that sells the system. For sports fans, its a game like Madden ( many many people didnt buy a DC because it didnt have Madden ), for race fans like me its PGR3 they buy it for, for platform lovers it would be Kameo, for FPS people it would be PD0 or CoD2.
That is true I suppose. I don't really see Madden as killer, but then again I never have. But when Mass Effect drops on the 360...well I'm going to have a problem resisting.

Another strange game that might be my killer app: Dead Rising. I'm really into photography, and coincidently, I love zombies. I don't know if they thought of me when they made this game, or God just loves me. One of the two.

[Citizen Philip]

Three Kings f'n rocks. Didn't see Jarhead yet...I heard it's good.

I prefered the original: Kelly's Heros: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065938/

[Serapth]

PDZ - I want to know more about the game. But I'll give this one a nod out of "trust".

Agreed actually. This game doesnt float my boat either, but its not really about me or you, its about the general population. This is as close to Halo as the system has though and supposedly the N64 version was quite good and has a hell of a following ( wouldnt know, didnt own a n64)

PGR3 - Another good game for racing fans. Worth a system on its own? I dont know

Is to me :D I bought Halo and PGR at launch on the Xbox, and PGR is the game that got me "my moneys worth". Put probrably 80 hours into that game. 500$/80 is actually fairly cheap so far as entertainment costs go. Beyond that, everything was gravy for me. Again.. different strokes for different folks, but im sure this game will sell its fair share of systems.


NFS - Buy it on regular XBox. Or PS2. Or whatever other console has it.
Madden - Same as above
NHL2K6 - Same as above
NBA2K6 - Same as above
FIFA2K6 - Sigh, this is getting tiring. Same as above.


You really underestimates the markets need to have the latest and greatest. If people didnt work that way, you wouldnt be able to buy last years shoes ( shoes, for christ sake!!!) at half price at the end of the season. Plus, in this case, the new versions should actually be sufficently improved... Keep in mind, this is a demographic that buys NBA 2005 when they own 2004, and the only new addition is new rosters and the ability to set hotdog prices. Again, this doesnt apply to you or me, but it does to alot of people, especially Joe or Jill Sixpack.

Condemned - Worth a rental. Not a system seller. Price drop will make this game very appealing for an afternoon or two

Agreed, but I think this of many games. But people out there obviously buy them... be it Condemned, RE, Silent Hill, etc. Personally, I dont see survival horror games being a huge system seller, but... they sure help push someones decision who is sitting on the fence.


King Kong - See: port + pretty = pretty port.
A new Tony Hawk ( although its supposedly shit ) Same as above minus pretty

See my sport game comment. Mostly the same thing applies. Then again, I personally dont know why people buy these games to start... but... thats me.


Ridge Racer ( big deal in Japan ) I don't know what to say

Ok... then I dont know what to respond :D


DoA4 ( on the 10th ) Again, don't know. We're talking launch, though. No fair.

Agreed. But then, knowing its just around the corner, and its a franchise thats consistantly good, is going to influence some buyers.


Kameo - YES. The one game I'd enjoy playing besides PDZ. But it also suffers from quick playthrough with little replayability. Would be nice after a price drop, but no matter how many systems this game jumps from, it has never screamed "Buy a console for me"


Ditto, but then... I dont get most platformers. But they sell like mad, so there are obviously people out there that do.


I don't have a MS-bias, not really. What I have is a launch-purchasing bias. It's not the price, because I can easily afford it. It's the practicality and rationale involved.

And we all know the PS3 launch will be shittier, so this personal bias transcends simple fanboyism.


See, thats the heart of it. I would say more then anything your jaded about gaming. Thats not an insult, but your problem with this lineup stems more from your general lack of excitment towards gaming, then it does to the lineup. If we took you with the mindset you have now back in time to another systems launch, I imagine you would be exactly the same, or worse.

Hell, the only reason im getting a XBox 2 at launch ( other then being a gadget whore ) is the fact im fairly bored right now. Otherwise, my perspective is actually alot like yours. Outside of PGR3, there arent any games I intend to buy until probrably Oblivion ( except maybe CoD2, still undecided... getting sick of Day of Defeat ).

Put, even with my having that perspective, I have to acknowledge how solid and good a launch lineup Microsoft has.

[ezra]

People were actually paid to design those things? I've crafted more appealing forms in the washroom.

And yes, Jarhead was really good. More of a 'war' movie than Three Kings however.

[Serapth]

That is true I suppose. I don't really see Madden as killer, but then again I never have. But when Mass Effect drops on the 360...well I'm going to have a problem resisting.

Another strange game that might be my killer app: Dead Rising. I'm really into photography, and coincidently, I love zombies. I don't know if they thought of me when they made this game, or God just loves me. One of the two.

I agree with you on two things... Madden does jack shit for me... never has. NHL used to, but even it lost its luster over the years. However, these are consistantly among the best selling games.

Second, dead rising does look pretty sweet. Its either going to be an absolute riot, or have a bad control scheme and suck arse. Im hoping for riot, obviously. Watching him head slam a zombie, then pick up a bowling ball and mow down a crowd just looks unresistable. Fingers crossed on that one.

Finally... where the hell is your sig from. It looks familiar but I cant place it. Best im coming up with is Simpsons Halloween special, but I think thats wrong.

[Achilles]

NFS - Buy it on regular XBox. Or PS2. Or whatever other console has it.
Madden - Same as above
NHL2K6 - Same as above
NBA2K6 - Same as above
FIFA2K6 - Sigh, this is getting tiring. Same as above.Sure you can get them on the previous systems, but that doesn't make them bad games, or even weak launch titles. In fact that's an extremely impressive list of franchises to have on day one.

And really, which is going to be the better version of the game and which do you think they spent more time on? The one for the old system or the one for the next-gen system? The 360 version is going to be better just as the verison of madden that came out for PS2 was better than the one that came out for PSOne that year.

[Malovech]

CNN. The same website that said: If you want to see a good movie about Iraq, go see Three Kings, not Jarhead.

Uhuh.

I hate to be one to agree with CNN, but that is spot on. Three Kings said way more about the war in Iraq than Jarhead did. It's also just a tiny bit more entertaining.

Also, the 360 would be great if it supported mouse and keyboard, or claw and mouse or an alternative to a gamepad that makes fpses and mmos possible. It has VGA out for crying out loud! So close! So close!

[Knite]

Finally... where the hell is your sig from. It looks familiar but I cant place it. Best im coming up with is Simpsons Halloween special, but I think thats wrong.

I'm going to have to vote that his quote is from The Tick!

Personally, I think the launch lineup looks pretty good from a comparison standpoint of past launches.

Besides, how many damn games do you want to purchase at one time to play? You can only play 1 at a time, and unless you're a college student (who should be spending money on beer, not 360s) you don't have the time to constantly keep playing 20 different "must have" titles.

Hell, PGR3, NHL2k6, (*coughmaybekameocough*) and Halo1+2 in 720p/AA is enough to make me go W00t!

<- still gets excited about gaming.

[Schnoogs]

CNN. The same website that said: If you want to see a good movie about Iraq, go see Three Kings, not Jarhead.

Uhuh.

Three Kings IS a great movie on Iraq. CNN got that one right.

[RMan]

In fact that's an extremely impressive list of franchises to have on day one.
I still think you're missing the point for most gamers, it's not impressive to pay a premium price for a new system just to play virtually the same game you can get for your Xbox for less money. None of these half-hearted ports are really attractive, and for many (including me) the strength of the launch is not measured by the volume of games, but how much I want to play them.

[DoubleUranium]

I can only speak for myself, but I'm a 360 fan (long term viability) but I'm still not picking up one at launch. I'm not really interested in PD0 after seeing all the crap looking videos. I'd love PGR4 or DAO4 in HD - HELL YEAH. Condemned? Maybe. 720p Halo? Haven't played either in months. I expect to be a 360 owner within a year, but right now there's no MUST PLAY NOW game that will lead me to spend $600 right now.

[ezra]

I hate to be one to agree with CNN, but that is spot on. Three Kings said way more about the war in Iraq than Jarhead did. It's also just a tiny bit more entertaining.



Well, Three Kings certainly gave a wider view of the gulf war. It presented the situation from a variety of angles and also showed one very important thing that Jarhead never got around to - the iraqi people themselves.

Jarhead was more of a movie about what war, any and every war, does to a person.

[Captain Awesome]

Well, Three Kings certainly gave a wider view of the gulf war. It presented the situation from a variety of angles and also showed one very important thing that Jarhead never got around to - the iraqi people themselves.

Jarhead was more of a movie about what war, any and every war, does to a person.


Finally after so many pages later. Someone got it :)

[Achilles]

I still think you're missing the point for most gamers, it's not impressive to pay a premium price for a new system just to play virtually the same game you can get for your Xbox for less money. None of these half-hearted ports are really attractive, and for many (including me) the strength of the launch is not measured by the volume of games, but how much I want to play them.Do you really think these are half-hearted ports? You think the version on the old system is surprerior and that's the one you'd buy if you were Perigon and were getting a free 360?

I think sports fans will pay a premium for the best verison of their favorite game, and I think to them it's a system seller. Madden for PS2 certainly was, and the best selling launch game for that system by 4 times.

[Dabombpizza]

Finally... where the hell is your sig from. It looks familiar but I cant place it. Best im coming up with is Simpsons Halloween special, but I think thats wrong.
Dead rising does seem like one of those brilliant games that gets F*ed by a bad control system (FEAR Effect did that to me). The quote is from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. A coworker gave it to me, and I had no idea how awesome of an RPG it is, I freakin' love it!

[thecrazyd]

Do you really think these are half-hearted ports? You think the version on the old system is surprerior and that's the one you'd buy if you were Perigon and were getting a free 360?

I think sports fans will pay a premium for the best verison of their favorite game, and I think to them it's a system seller. Madden for PS2 certainly was, and the best selling launch game for that system by 4 times.
Just because they are slightly superior graphically does not mean they are worth purchasing a 400 dollar console for.

[Axiom]

Just because they are slightly superior graphically does not mean they are worth purchasing a 400 dollar console for.

For a lot of people, it is easily worth it.

[Serapth]

Just because they are slightly superior graphically does not mean they are worth purchasing a 400 dollar console for.
To you. To many people thats probrably not the case.

Plus, you ( or I ) havent played them yet. What if the AI is better? What if the online experience is better? What if the controls are better? At what point does it become worth 400$? ( Retorical btw... the answer it, its a personal decision ).

The fact the game is there, and at the least, look better, is going to be worth 400$ to alot of people. To MS, thats really all that matters.

EDIT: Couldnt the same question be asked to almost every PC gamer? What drives people to buy the newest and greatest video cards? In that case, literally all you are getting is better graphics.

[thecrazyd]

For a lot of people, it is easily worth it.
A lot of people are dumbasses.

[Taco]

$400 really isn't that much for some people.

Christ, I just spent $160 for a new power supply for my PC.

[Serapth]

A lot of people are dumbasses.

And alot of people are cheap! :D

[thecrazyd]

And alot of people are cheap! :D
I would gladly pay the money if they offered me something worth having. As someone with a GameCube, a PS2, and an awesome PC, this offers me nothing I don't already have.

[Kelegacy]

A lot of people are dumbasses.
I just laughed out loud. The guy with my penis in his mouth (who has, ironically enough, also preordered a 360) looked up at me and asked what was so funny.

"You're a dumbass," I said.

[RMan]

Do you really think these are half-hearted ports? You think the version on the old system is surprerior and that's the one you'd buy if you were Perigon and were getting a free 360?
I didn't say the old one was supperior, but yea, I do think the sports titles are half-hearted ports, and even if I was a sports fan I doubt I'd be too excited about a slight improvement in the graphics and a higher price tag. Regardless, it's hard to imagine any of these titles being significant system sellers since the experience is not unique and the title is not exclusive.

[Serapth]

I didn't say the old one was supperior, but yea, I do think the sports titles are half-hearted ports, and even if I was a sports fan I doubt I'd be too excited about a slight improvement in the graphics and a higher price tag. Regardless, it's hard to imagine any of these titles being significant system sellers since the experience is not unique and the title is not exclusive.

Well... as far as exclusive goes... these games are pretty much exclusive on next gen systems for atleast a year.

[Taco]

I think they drag people over the fence that were otherwise straddling it. They don't get you on top.

[Axiom]

I would gladly pay the money if they offered me something worth having. As someone with a GameCube, a PS2, and an awesome PC, this offers me nothing I don't already have.

Halo 2 in 720p and online co-op Robotron and Joust...

I know, I know, you don't care about that...

I've seen some people more excited about that than most of the regular launch titles.

Just because someone decides to buy something you don't doesn't make them a dumbass.

This launch has enough titles for the console to sell pretty well through Christmas, and once we get into 2006, you'll start seeing better games.

[Achilles]

I didn't say the old one was supperior, but yea, I do think the sports titles are half-hearted ports, and even if I was a sports fan I doubt I'd be too excited about a slight improvement in the graphics and a higher price tag. Regardless, it's hard to imagine any of these titles being significant system sellers since the experience is not unique and the title is not exclusive.Sports gamers are a huge group of early adopters. It may still just be football, but they want the best looking/playing football game they can get. That's like telling an FPS fan that it's no big deal to play Halflife 2 with everything turned down to minimum because they haven't upgraded their video card in 4 years. Many FPS fans will buy that new video card and play the game in the way that provides the best experience.

[jwbxx]

Three Kings f'n rocks. Didn't see Jarhead yet...I heard it's good.Yeah three kings does own. It was a comedy, but it also did a good job portraying the first gulf war.


Anyways, I want a 360, but there is nothing that demands my attention so far. That being said, halo 3 and tom clancy's advance war fighter demand my attention.

But I will get the 360 when halo 3 is out and when the other 2 are out, so I can hopefully get it at a decent price.

[RMan]

Well... as far as exclusive goes... these games are pretty much exclusive on next gen systems for atleast a year.
I was speaking of the sports titles.

[thecrazyd]

Halo 2 in 720p and online co-op Robotron and Joust...

I know, I know, you don't care about that...

I've seen some people more excited about that than most of the regular launch titles.

Just because someone decides to buy something you don't doesn't make them a dumbass.

This launch has enough titles for the console to sell pretty well through Christmas, and once we get into 2006, you'll start seeing better games.
I did not say everyone who buys a 360 launch is a dumbass. I said that anyone who buys one because of slightly better graphics in ports is a dumbass.

[grammatoncleric]

I remember how excited everyone was for nfl 2k3 for xbox and ps2 because it would be so superior to the dreamcast version...and it was exactly the same with slightly prettier graphics. A year later we got to hear about how visual concepts never got a chance to upgrade it so 2k4 was really the game to have. I see the same thing for NBA 2K and the EA lineups and Tony Hawk. These companies aren't going to implement groundbreaking new gameplay developments because they simply don't have to. The graphics engines started their rehaul and the same gameplay mechanics and ai are basically dumped into them. Hell, I remember thinking Summoner and Oddworld were pretty cool for a while. I'm sure people will convince themselves that these games are really great but they'll generally be forgotten, save for perhaps Project Gotham 3 and PDZ.

I have no problem with people buying a 360 just arguing that it's the games that are selling the system is silly. If this were some crazy new panasonic system with this lineup would you buy it? Likely not.

[RMan]

Sports gamers are a huge group of early adopters.
Possibly true, but that’s a far cry from being a system seller (a huge number of movie-goers eat popcorn, but they’re not going to the movie for the popcorn). I’d say a very small percentage of early adopters ONLY buy sports titles or bought primarily because of sports titles, esp. when the same version is available on their current console.
That's like telling an FPS fan that it's no big deal to play Halflife 2 with everything turned down to minimum because they haven't upgraded their video card in 4 years.
Umm, I’d say that comparing the yearly sports title’s roster update to likely the biggest PC title in 5 years would not be a fair comparison. Still, if many could play Half-life 2 on their existing hardware with a minimal decrease in visual quality but everything else the same, yea, you’d see a great deal less video card upgrading.

[laggerific]

I personally am looking forward to playing THAW on this system when I get it. THAW on the XBox looks terrible compared to the last 3 tony hawk games on that system, and I'm fairly confident that the FSAA on the 360 will help it be one of the best Tony Hawks recently...

[Magnanimous Gnome]

The fact that they're getting Oblivion so close to launch is crazy. I can't think of a time when a system got an expansive, good RPG less than a year from launch. Usually it's just stuff like Metal Dungeon, with the better ones being like Eternal Ring.


Well, the first Xbox did get Morrowind (buggy as hell of course) right around launch.

For PC, yes. The Undying. Good game, overlooked and undermarketed. Fucking Electronic Arts doesn't know what to do with a good game when they find one in their midsts.

This was also EA's last M rated title, and probably the last truly good game to come out of that publisher, with the possible exception of Sims 2.

What ever happened to that Godfather game that they were hyping the hell out of? EA's return to M and all that bs.

PDZ - I want to know more about the game. But I'll give this one a nod out of "trust".

Agreed actually. This game doesnt float my boat either, but its not really about me or you, its about the general population. This is as close to Halo as the system has though and supposedly the N64 version was quite good and has a hell of a following ( wouldnt know, didnt own a n64)

I love PD on the N64 - I've logged hours and hours on it with friends. I'm not looking forward to this sequel at all though - the character redesign and all the mediocre press have completely put me off. My other friends who used to play PD with me feel the same way, but I am sure that there are those out there who are excited about it. I just don't think most of them are actual fans of the original. This can be seen by all the hyping that the co-op modes got a while back when they were "announced." Anyone who played the first should know that it had co-op way back when, before Halo "invented" it even, heh. :p


I just laughed out loud. The guy with my penis in his mouth (who has, ironically enough, also preordered a 360) looked up at me and asked what was so funny.

"You're a dumbass," I said.

See, shit like this is what keeps me on this site for several hours a day. If you and all the other comedians would just start posting like Player 1, I could save myself a whole lot of time and actually write a novel or something. :mad:

[Serapth]

I personally am looking forward to playing THAW on this system when I get it. THAW on the XBox looks terrible compared to the last 3 tony hawk games on that system, and I'm fairly confident that the FSAA on the 360 will help it be one of the best Tony Hawks recently...

Sorry to kill your expectations, but the one review I read ( sorry, no link, forget the site ) actually said THAW was WORSE on the next gen, as the high definition display amplifies the ugliness of the game. From the sounds of things, Neversoft did NOTHING to really take advantage of the new system. It sounds like a straight port of the XBox title, with the graphics stretched.

Very very disappointing if true. However, ive found the TH games steadly less fun since TH 3. 3 I beat, 4 I played a bit of THUG on PSP I played about 4 hours and havent touched since. Doubt I will ever buy one again, especially with the annoying shit from Jackass in it.

[Achilles]

I’d say a very small percentage of early adopters ONLY buy sports titles or bought primarily because of sports titles, esp. when the same version is available on their current console.There are a lot of people who primarily only care about sports games. They don't post on this board but they do give Madden a yearly sales figure of 1 million+ units, and they do buy systems at launch, as the PS2 launch has shown. What exactly drove the PS2's launch numbers if not Madden? It sure wasn't Tekken Tag and SSX. Sports fans care a lot about their sports, they'll do things like buy a $5000 TV so they can get the best possible picture when they watch the game on Sunday.I have no problem with people buying a 360 just arguing that it's the games that are selling the system is silly. If this were some crazy new panasonic system with this lineup would you buy it? Likely not.So you're saying I'm silly for being excited about something that you're not excited about. Right. Maybe you don't think CoD2 and a survival horror game (Condemned) on a 60" screen in 720p with surround sound is cool, but I do.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Oh, forgot to add that noticed something kind of amusing today. I was looking at the back of my Gamecube box while I packed it up, and I saw Kameo on there.

Donkey Kong Racing was on there as well, and some other Rare title that never came out.

Weird how things change so drastically like that.

[Serapth]

Maybe you don't think CoD2 and a survival horror game (Condemned) on a 60" screen in 720p with surround sound is cool, but I do.

Actually, thats a really nice way to sum up the upcoming excitement for many with the XBox 360.

"There are those of us with bigscreen HDTV's. And there are those that are jealous of us for having such a sweet setup"

:D

Almost everyone I know that is super excited about the 360 has a HDTV and 5.1 SS sytem. Not say people with a more mundane tv arent excited though...

[RMan]

What exactly drove the PS2's launch numbers if not Madden?
No way to know, I didn't follow Madden, but I'd seriously doubt it "drove sales" as if it was the major factor. Again, if you want to believe that tons of people are running out to buy a 360 to play sports titles that are virtually identical to the cheaper versions and they would have otherwise not bought the system, then you keep on thinking that.

[Achilles]

No way to know, I didn't follow Madden, but I'd seriously doubt it "drove sales" as if it was the major factor. Again, if you want to believe that tons of people are running out to buy a 360 to play sports titles that are virtually identical to the cheaper versions and they would have otherwise not bought the system, then you keep on thinking that.We'll have to disagree about that. I doubt any hard-core sports fans will roll in to back me up since this isn't really that kind of forum.Well, the first Xbox did get Morrowind (buggy as hell of course) right around launch.Ah I forgot about Morrowind, but even that came out 7 months after launch. Hopefully Oblivion won't be as buggy as every other game in the Elderscrolls series. I still can't believe that looking at the second place you were supposed to go in Daggerfall crashed the game, sigh. I have no idea how anyone beat that game, even with gratuitous use of the no-collision cheat.

[Hellstorm]

Revolution FTW!!

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

Most of the launch games offer little more than slight graphic advancements than versions found on other systems (including the original Xbox).

Lol

oh and

Maybe you don't think CoD2 and a survival horror game (Condemned) on a 60" screen in 720p with surround sound is cool, but I do.

Actually, thats a really nice way to sum up the upcoming excitement for many with the XBox 360.

"There are those of us with bigscreen HDTV's. And there are those that are jealous of us for having such a sweet setup"

:D

Almost everyone I know that is super excited about the 360 has a HDTV and 5.1 SS sytem. Not say people with a more mundane tv arent excited though...


Ive got surround sound and a 62 inch HDTV... am I excited? Nope. Ill take CoD2 on my PC and could care less for condemned as of now, that goes for most if not all the other games, except DOA4 and maybe others that I cant even think of...

[RevXwise]

I don't know if any of you have played CoD2 yet... but it's almost exactly like CoD 1 except the characters look better up close and weapon models look a little smoother. Getting excited for this game to hit 360 isn't something I'm personally gonna do, as CoD2 was a HUGE dissapointment for me (I'm sorry but scripted death sequences really take me out of the game experience)

[jspeak32]

Im curious then... what launch lineup did you like? If TES:Oblivion hadnt slipped, every type of game would have been presented at day 1 with this one. Do you even remember the PS2 launch lineup... compared to this one, it was a steaming pile of crap wsauteed in a nice piss sauce.

As to the gamecube... there were what, 6 games?

Xbox1... hmmm... take out Halo, and it had a few racing games, DOA, Fusion Frenzy and OddWorld.

Closest lineup ive seen to the size and scope of the XBox 360, was probrably the dreamcast. The only thing that hurt it was no EA Support. The XBox 360 however has the *biggest* lineup by EA at launch, ever.

Amazing how people seem to forget the past so quickly.

I agree, especially about how you compared the launch to the dreamcast launch. The dreamcast is the most recent system that had the best launch lineup. The worst would be PS2 (and more recent, the PSP...i enjoy my lumines oh yes, but c'mon that was it)

[Phades]

Just because they are slightly superior graphically does not mean they are worth purchasing a 400 dollar console for.

I agree. But I wouldn't buy a system specifically for them. Now, when I buy the system for PGR3, Perfect Dark, Kameo, and Condemned I also know that I can now buy some better versions of current-gen games. If any of those were games I was inclined to buy I'd just see it as a bonus that I could buy an extra cool version of them.

I think that's the thing you're missing. People may not buy the console SPECIFICALLY for port games, but it's cool to have an updated version of a game you may have purchased for the older systems. I just see that as an added bonus. I had all the systems this gen and it was nice to be able to pick the best system to play a particular game on. I'm willing to bet that when the new Tomb Raider comes out it'll be pretty much the same across all systems. Regardless, I'm excited at the prospect of being able to purchase the best version on the 360.

Of course, I'm still more excited about the true next gen only games like Oblivion, Mass Effect, Gears of War, etc.. but I'm certainly not going to complain if a game I wanted to play has the best version on the 360. "But, it's not truly next gen!! I won't buy it."

[thecrazyd]

I agree. But I wouldn't buy a system specifically for them. Now, when I buy the system for PGR3, Perfect Dark, Kameo, and Condemned I also know that I can now buy some better versions of current-gen games. If any of those were games I was inclined to buy I'd just see it as a bonus that I could buy an extra cool version of them.

I think that's the thing you're missing. People may not buy the console SPECIFICALLY for port games, but it's cool to have an updated version of a game you may have purchased for the older systems. I just see that as an added bonus. I had all the systems this gen and it was nice to be able to pick the best system to play a particular game on. I'm willing to bet that when the new Tomb Raider comes out it'll be pretty much the same across all systems. Regardless, I'm excited at the prospect of being able to purchase the best version on the 360.

Of course, I'm still more excited about the true next gen only games like Oblivion, Mass Effect, Gears of War, etc.. but I'm certainly not going to complain if a game I wanted to play has the best version on the 360. "But, it's not truly next gen!! I won't buy it."
That, I can dig. Just the way I see it is the only "exclusive" that interests me is Condemned, which may or may not be coming for the PC as well. As for the "true next gen" games, Oblivion will also be on the PC, I would kind of expect Mass Effect to show up as well, and Epic has mentioned the possibility of a PC port for GoW. XBox has always been shit for exclusives, which is why I never bought one, and have no plans to buy a 360.

[ElectricMonk]

yeah this is so much worse than the ps2 launch line up

where's the fireworks-fx puzzle game ms? huh? huh?

*** is teh d00med

[thecrazyd]

yeah this is so much worse than the ps2 launch line up

where's the fireworks-fx puzzle game ms? huh? huh?

*** is teh d00med
Pay attention. No one is saying it is worse then the PS2 launch. We are just saying it sucks.

[Phades]

The only thing that DOES annoy me about ports like Gun, NFSMW, Quake 4, and Tony Hawk is that they still feel the need to increase the price even though it's not substantially different. This alone will keep me from buying any of those just out of principle (well, that and I don't want them anyway).

My biggest problem is that I'm a "next-generation" whore. Whenever a new system comes out, I must have it. The only real exceptions to this are the DS and Saturn since they didn't have a single game at launch I was interested in playing. Heck, at least the PS2 had SSX which I loved every second of.

Side note: Doesn't it seem like franchises have just been beaten to death this generation? One of the worst offenders is Tony Hawk which has had 5 games this gen (6 if you count 2x on the Xbox).

[The Iron Weasel]

Yeah its funny because the ports cost more then the original games.

[dr_wily]

chris morris is a hack. has way too much visibility in the gaming world.. the guy didnt even talk about the games. the "2nd opinion" link said way more.

to me the xbox 360 is a 400$ MPC-yet-to-be-hacked.. easy way to hook up and enjoy 5.1 720p tv goodness, rather than hacking around a system that will look stupid in the living room. sounds good to me.

COD2 at toyzrus had me at hello.. and 15 min of playing...

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Pay attention. No one is saying it is worse then the PS2 launch. We are just saying it sucks.

I guess that is the problem, I don't see it as sucking.
NBA 2k6 and Madden were built on new engines. They look better and play smoother. Madden lost features, but I really didn't play with those features much anyway. The better graphics give a better sense of immersion and that generally improves the experience. To say that this launch sucks pretty much says that past launches suck, blow, crap on you, crap on itself and suck some more.
The games look good (some great, others ok), it covers most of the genres, even the ports look and play smoother than their last generation counterparts. Is it worth the extra $10 bucks...maybe, maybe not. But videogames were due for a price hike seeing as they stayed the same for a long time.
I can't wait until Super Tuesday. I have played a few of the games on a 42" HD monitor (CoD2, NFS) and a few others on a smaller hd widescreen (King Kong and Kameo). I was impressed enough thatr I pre-ordered Kameo, King Kong and CoD2 moments after playing them. I got PGR3 and Ridge Racer after watching trailers. I got a few more preorders after that...
I guess saying that the launch 'sucks' is way too strong. It may not appeal to you, but it appeals to a lot of gamers...just check the pre-sell numbers. Or, ask the Best Buy/Wal-Mart guy how many questions he is getting about the system.