Prey Info

[bapenguin]

The upcoming issue of Play Magazine (http://www.playmagazine.com/) will feature Prey (http://www.3drealms.com/index.shtml) on the cover as well an article and screenshots of the game. There's one quote from the article that is posted on the 3D Realms front page that has me wondering though...

"Dying doesn't really exist in Prey. "We're kind of sick of the whole save-crawl mentality. We just wanted to get rid of the whole dying thing. It totally takes you out of the immersion of the game."
Release Date: 03/01/2006 (PC (http://www.gametab.com/pc/prey/4071/))

Permanent god mode? Pretty lame if you ask me.
Thanks VE3d.com (http://www.ve3d.com)

[Borys]

Lame or not they are at least trying to innovate. Halo did it first (innovation) with an awesome shield system (that is totally out of place in CoD2, though) now it's time again to push the genre forward in the health and regeneration area.

We will see if this is a smart or not a very smart idea. I predict the latter.

[Lister]

Yes, anything different is inherently bad!

[earthworm48]

This is that thing that was on the E3 presentation, where he collects those flying things and gets back to his body? Well its new, but FPS's are short right now (FEAR Q4 most recently) and having no death in the game.... will it make the game too easy/short?

[Varsity]

Not dying <> god mode. Surely you've seen the other previews?

[bapenguin]

I guess I didn't think of it that way Borys....kind of like Halo's system. The problem I have with it is...if you don't die....there's no reprocussions in the game. I guess I'll reserve judgement till I read how it's implmented....but for me personally, using a god mode in a game while fun because you are invincible...really sucks out the overall soul of the game.

This is that thing that was on the E3 presentation, where he collects those flying things and gets back to his body? Well its new, but FPS's are short right now (FEAR Q4 most recently) and having no death in the game.... will it make the game too easy/short?

Totally forgot about that. Thanks.

[dartt]

It isn't God mode.

Have you watched any of the videos of Prey? You can "die" but when you do your spirit lives on in some kind of spirit plain where you must fight off these strange flying creatures to open a hole up in the earth through which you can see your "dead" body, the more of the creatures you shoot the more health you return with.

I'm not sure if that is 100% correct but thats what I recall from the great videos they released a few months ago.

[Captain Awesome]

The Spirit form in this looks great, as does the whole portal design.

[AlmostSente]

Not all changes are good either... Deus Ex 2 and their unified ammo system comes to mind. ;)

I guess I'll have to wait and see to judge it for myself.

[Lunar Blue]

You can "die" but when you do your spirit lives on in some kind of spirit plain...

Sounds alike to Soul Reaver to me, it worked pretty well IMO. Altho' the spirit world was kinda creepy :o

[Borys]

Not all changes are good either... Deus Ex 2 and their unified ammo system comes to mind. ;)

I guess I'll have to wait and see to judge it for myself.

There was NO Deus Ex 2. That Invisible War abomination was just that - an abomination. I lost all my respect for Spector after that console turd.

How can one go from masterpieces like Ultima Underworld, Thief and Deus Ex to POS DX:IW?

$$$ i$ the an$wer.

But let us not derail this thread any further. It is really a weird feeling knowing that all that old games/ franchises will be back in 2006 - Prey, DNF and SiN. Maybe not weird but magic?

[Player 1]

"Dying doesn't really exist in Prey. "We're kind of sick of the whole save-crawl mentality. We just wanted to get rid of the whole dying thing. It totally takes you out of the immersion of the game."Permanent god mode? Pretty lame if you ask me.


Yeah. You can't die in those Lucasarts adventures like Sam n Max or Day of the Tentacle. Man, they suck!

(I'd mention Grim Fandango too - but, hey, you're already dead)

I fail to see how not sticking with convention must be lame. I'm sure the whole 'not dying' thing is being romanticised to a great degree in the article and that it's not really going to make that much of a difference at the end of the day - but at least they're trying.

Prey's got a ton of great ideas already on display in the 10 minute E3 vid. The portal idea had always been intriguing back when they first started talking about this game 10 or so years ago (certainly before the original Unreal game). See it in action, space sections, alternate gravity and zero-g scenes show considerable promise and give some good scope for novel gameplay concepts.

I don't think that sounds lame.

Of course, the game could come out and be a huge disappointment. Time will tell.

[mixuk]

Deus Ex 2 was designed by Harvey Smith.

[Savok]

I kinda like the idea, best way to experience a game is to go in blind (well, FPS anyway). Of course you will die and at times it will become a quick save/load crawl. Granted those with enough skill won't die too often, but to get skilled you have to play the game anyway. It gets rid of the catch 22, hooray IMO. And I've always loved Soul Reaver's spectral realm.

[Neverborne]

New and different! Everyone, hate on it!

[bapenguin]

Yeah. You can't die in those Lucasarts adventures like Sam n Max or Day of the Tentacle. Man, they suck!

(I'd mention Grim Fandango too - but, hey, you're already dead)

I fail to see how not sticking with convention must be lame. I'm sure the whole 'not dying' thing is being romanticised to a great degree in the article and that it's not really going to make that much of a difference at the end of the day - but at least they're trying.

Yeah, but in Sam n Max the goal of the game isn't to survive, it's to solve a puzzle, gather clues, etc. In a first person shooter the goal is to kill or be killed.

I'm not arguing not sticking with convention, I'm all for breaking the mold.

[ÜberJumper]

bapenguin:

Check out the E3 video. Their "Dying" bit is, as already said, putting the body onto a spirit world. You fight creatures in that plane, if you win, you get back into your body. If not, you keep fighting.

Certainly if you "die" you're set back. You can't complete the game, because you're stuck trying to revive your body.

What this does is never stops the game and takes you back to a save point. You're either moving forward in the game, or you're not. It's never a) Die b) go back in time to last "save point" c) go forward again until you die.

That's the one thing that really wrecks suspension of disbelief in games. Your avatar dies, and suddenly you respawn back a ways like everything you just saw never happened, yet now you've got insight into how the next bit of the game will play out.

[mister_slim]

That's the one thing that really wrecks suspension of disbelief in games. Your avatar dies, and suddenly you respawn back a ways like everything you just saw never happened, yet now you've got insight into how the next bit of the game will play out.
Integrating that into the game was one of the cleverest aspects of Sands of Time.

[PIPBoy3000]

For the most part, death in a computer game typically means a loss of the player's time. It's a minor punishment to encourage the player to be more careful. I'm so used to saving and moving into the next encounter, reloading if it goes badly. Yes, it's old.

Still, it's a tried and true method, so gamers are used to it. The alternatives I've seen haven't been all that satisfying. I suppose my ideal would be to maintain the player's fun level, giving them a chance to mentally unwind for a moment, and then putting them back into the fray once again. Maybe this approach is along those lines?

[zipR]

This reminds me of two different things;
Planescape:Torment
and
The old Q2 mod that combined CTF and Rocket arena -- you die and then you have to face off against another opponent in a Rocket Arena. If you win you get to rejoin your team. Don't remember what it was called.

[AlmostSente]

I would say that dying in a game is part of the immersion if done well (like when the pink demon eats the player in that Doom3 demo), not the part that breaks it. The dying in this game might be cool but it's not like I would like to see it in other more "realistic" FPS games...

[bapenguin]

bapenguin:

Check out the E3 video. Their "Dying" bit is, as already said, putting the body onto a spirit world. You fight creatures in that plane, if you win, you get back into your body. If not, you keep fighting.


Yeah, I saw it, I just forgot the details of it.

[ÜberJumper]

Mr_slim:

Yeah, totally forgot PoP (haven't played it). That's a great way to do away with the disconnection from the gameplay that happens in other FPS games (any WW2 shooter for example).

[Voodoo]

I think that this idea for Death in a SP experience is great! It works really well in World of Warcraft and it is really cool that it is making a transistion to the single player experience. I'm especially happy that they included the ability to strike back some vengence from the spirit world. It would be really cool if you were able to do that to people camping your body in WoW. ;)

[carneconcarne]

I think every game should have a POP style reversal of time function. It should replace quicksave. Give me 3 minutes or whatever of rewind, and I'll be happy.

[AlmostSente]

Meh, that would break suspension of disbelief more in my mind. If the game itself revolves around time like POP then sure, but not in HL2 for example...

[KarmaGhost]

You don't really "die" in WoW, right?

Granted, that's not an FPS.

[EternalGamer]

I agree with Mr. Slim that Sands of Time found a very effective and original way of dealing with this problem. Since the game is being told as a story by the Prince, when you die, the story is "gotten wrong" and the Prince Responds, "No, that's not the way it happened, let me try again."

As mentioned before the Soul Reaver games also did this, but when you died in the spirit world there, you really did die (or at least 'reset to the last checkpoint). Before them, Link to the Past did this when you were in the Dark world (the opposite of the way Soul Reaver handled it), I believe. When you died in the Dark World, you got transported back to the land of the living. Not a new game convention, but still an interesting one.

Dan

[Rommel]

I am highly looking forward to Prey.

Great post huh?

[carneconcarne]

Meh, that would break suspension of disbelief more in my mind. If the game itself revolves around time like POP then sure, but not in HL2 for example...

doesn't die and quicksave break the suspension of disbelief too? Wouldn't it be easier just to roll back at anytime, instead of quicksave and quickload?

[Draknodred]

I think every game should have a POP style reversal of time function. It should replace quicksave. Give me 3 minutes or whatever of rewind, and I'll be happy.

Yea I'm playing Total Overdose right now and instead of lives and stuff like that you have Rewinds which takes you back in time a little bit with some more health, it keeps you in the action and let's you get another try at things. I don't think every game should have it but I am sick of the save-reload gameplay present in a lot of FPS now days

[XenonCJ]

Where The Fuck Is Duke Nukem Forever?

=)

[Dirty Harry]

Where The Fuck Is Duke Nukem Forever?

=)
In my MINDDDD

[TheKeck]

I guess we'll have to see exactly how this is implemented, but I'm on the boat of "this sounds sketchy" for now.

[Aneurhythmia]

Yeah, but in Sam n Max the goal of the game isn't to survive, it's to solve a puzzle, gather clues, etc. In a first person shooter the goal is to kill or be killed.

I'm not arguing not sticking with convention, I'm all for breaking the mold.
Why does an FPS have to be kill or be killed? Why can't the goal be to gather clues and solve a puzzle?

[TheKeck]

Why does an FPS have to be kill or be killed? Why can't the goal be to gather clues and solve a puzzle?

Sure, that CAN be the goal, but IS it in Prey?? Doesn't seem so to me. The S in FPS does stand for shooter, remember. If shooting is just a sidenote that really doesn't deal with the core gameplay, why even have it?

[derjester]

I for one like the idea. You never really stopped playing the game in Soul Reaver. It was one of the greatest points of the game. If they can pull it off in an FPS I think it'd be really enjoyable. Though I do see it trivializing encounters. So you burst into a room guns blazing, you take out 2 guys, but the other 3 get you. So you power up in the netherworld and come back to plug those other 3. You could crawl your way thorugh levels pretty easily like that. Granted it would take a ton of time, but no game mode would be too hard.

[Imelman]

Where The Fuck Is Duke Nukem Forever?

=)

In the spirit realm trying to to kill shit so it can get back into its body. Might be a while...

[Imelman]

I for one like the idea. You never really stopped playing the game in Soul Reaver. It was one of the greatest points of the game. If they can pull it off in an FPS I think it'd be really enjoyable. Though I do see it trivializing encounters. So you burst into a room guns blazing, you take out 2 guys, but the other 3 get you. So you power up in the netherworld and come back to plug those other 3. You could crawl your way thorugh levels pretty easily like that. Granted it would take a ton of time, but no game mode would be too hard.

That works, so you die a lot and have to take a crapload more time to beat the game. This would work well if the game had some unlockables that you unlock if you beat the game on a certian difficulty in a certain amount of time. Thus in order to get the unlockables you'd have to figure out how to die less. But then if you took to much time you'd reload to make sure you didn't waste all that time...

Bah, whatever i'm rambling

[Beelzebud]

Sounds like the Soul Reaver games to me.

So is 3D Realms pretending that they are devloping this game?

I remember when they played that act with Max Payne.

Prey will be out and forgotten before 3DR finishes Duke Nukem Foreverandever.

[Liquidize105]

I hope they make the afterlife part fun instead of tedious like.

In some high risk games (Deus Ex, Gothic), when you die you're done, no respawn unless you have a save.

[mister_slim]

Yea I'm playing Total Overdose right now and instead of lives and stuff like that you have Rewinds which takes you back in time a little bit with some more health, it keeps you in the action and let's you get another try at things. I don't think every game should have it but I am sick of the save-reload gameplay present in a lot of FPS now days
I don't understand why that game is so much fun, but it is. Serious Sam goes to Mexico and deals out the Payne.
Where The Fuck Is Duke Nukem Forever?

You haven't picked up a copy? Did you miss the release announcement? Gamespot gave it PC Game of the Year...

[The Iron Weasel]

Sounds like the Soul Reaver games to me.

So is 3D Realms pretending that they are devloping this game?

I remember when they played that act with Max Payne.

Prey will be out and forgotten before 3DR finishes Duke Nukem Foreverandever.

Then that will be one mother fucking long time, because Prey will be the game that got cancelled, brought back to life, changed engines, changed developers, and finished. All before DNF came out.

[Nefs]

I really hope they make it so you do not just go back to the exact same 'netherworld' each time. If its the exact same creepy, stony, spirity(?) place every time you die, I could imagine dying would be even MORE tedious.

Look at it this way: when you die in a save/load kind of game, you just replay the last few minutes or so, but that changes depending on what part of the game your in. Imagine if every single time you died, you had to waste those few minutes doing the exact same thing every single time, whether you were at the begining, middle, or end of the game! In order for this to succeed they would need to make multiple 'death experiences' like each time you die, the spirit world is slightly different, or possibly new types of puzzles emerge in the spirit realm, and it gets harder as you progress.

[Imelman]

They could make a different "death challenge" depending on what it was that killed you. Thus as you got further in the game, getting back into your body would be harder because the more difficult enemies would provide more difficult challenges in the 'netherworld'