Sony Accused of Leading Price-Fix Cartel

[Banacek]

Looks like Sony just wants to be evil...

Click here for the story... (http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=2241992005)

THE electrical giant Sony has been accused of price-fixing in an attempt to curb internet bargains and send online prices soaring, it emerged yesterday.

The firm is among up to five leading manufacturers which demand higher prices from internet retailers than they do from high street stores.
What are they thinking at Sony? The bad press just keeps getting worse and worse...

[Captain Awesome]

le snowball effect.

[jacktion]

F#@k sony.

[Dabombpizza]

Every electrical giant is evil...but Sony has been getting a ton of bad press lately.
Now can someone sue Adelphia again? Their prices are still criminal...

[Kelegacy]

Every electrical giant is evil...but Sony has been getting a ton of bad press lately.
Now can someone sue Adelphia again? Their prices are still criminal...

Adelphia is in the stages of being bought out by Time Warner, but I hear Time Warner is more expensive. I pay nearly 60 bucks for my internet after taxes as it is.

[novicius]

Manufacturers have been put under enormous pressure by "bricks and mortar" store chains such as Dixons to hike up wholesale prices to online retailers. They are angry with websites undercutting the prices charged in high street shops.
Um, Sony, et. al., are receiving pressure from traditional brick and mortar electronics stores to list different wholesale prices for internet retailers -- this is pressure originating from the retailers, not Sony.

[Dabombpizza]

Adelphia is in the stages of being bought out by Time Warner, but I hear Time Warner is more expensive. I pay nearly 60 bucks for my internet after taxes as it is.
My parents live in Rio Rancho, New Mexico, and the city just bought a huge WiFi network that's free (well...taxes). This seems to be a trend that's catching on, as I know Seatle has done this and possibly a few more cities are in the process or are doing it. I just can't wait until it gets here...

[Reanimated]

Sony is just going down the tubes.

[XenonCJ]

Yeah they can rot in hell... Why is every CD "15 dollars", why is every movie "20 dollars", why is every video game "50 dollars".... Why is every video game console "300 dollars"? Why are they ALL released on Tuesday? Regular movies in the theatres on Wednesday? Thursday best night for TV??? And of course Chruch and Football on Sunday eheh... It ain't simply competition driving those things.


IT'S A COOKBOOK IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!!!

[Atorak]

This press is really awful for Sony. In fact, it has already changed my buying habits toward their products, and every time I read another story like this, I smile for doing so.

I planned on getting the PS3 along with my X360, but now I don't think I will. Heh, coupled with the fact that it doesn't sound like Sony has many exclusive titles anyway. Also, I was set on getting one of the new huge Sony LCD sets, but I went with the HP instead.

Hell, I'm actually happy about their bad press.....it keeps money in my wallet. :)

[Dabombpizza]

Why is every video game console "300 dollars"?
While I do agree with some points of your tangent, consoles are sold at bottom dollar and often times a loss. That's the only time a corporation is doing us a "favor".

[Fonz]

Meh because you know the producer of the Xbox isnt evil at all, just run-ins with the department of justice, US customs and US labor laws, but hey! here at evilavatar we hate sony and praise ***, please flame my post i really care :-p.

PS: i really enjoy paying 200 dollars for each version of windows that comes out.

[Onea]

It can hardly be called "evil" to pay for advertising, which is appairently what Sony is doing. By offering their goods for cheaper, they are essentially "paying" the retail stores to promote their products. Retail stores generally have a better reputation for honesty and reliability compared to online stores, so therefore it would make sense for Sony to have these stores promote their material. If the online stores would have long positive reviews for each of Sony's items, written by the store's staff members, then I'm sure Sony would offer them better prices too.

[mister_slim]

This is bullshit. Just rumormongering by online retailers. You know what would be nice? If I could pretend to be a very very small store and get Wal-Mart's wholesale price from manufacturers. Seriously, this is ignorant nonsense.

[Dabombpizza]

Meh because you know the producer of the Xbox isnt evil at all, just run-ins with the department of justice, US customs and US labor laws, but hey! here at evilavatar we hate sony and praise ***, please flame my post i really care :-p.

PS: i really enjoy paying 200 dollars for each version of windows that comes out.
Tru dat. *** is an evil slut, but is not currently breaking laws nor recieving tons of bad press. And yes, Windows prices are insane. Have you looked at the requirements for Vista? They're insane for an OS. Also, it comes in something like five flavors, one of them called "gaming edition" which I have the feeling it's going to be more expensive then the rest.

[Heretic Machine]

Yes they deserve the bad press, and I hope they burn in the hell!

/SammyJackson

[TheKeck]

THIS JUST IN: Sony involved in eating babies and black market pokemon trading!!!!

[Banacek]

Meh because you know the producer of the Xbox isnt evil at all, just run-ins with the department of justice, US customs and US labor laws, but hey! here at evilavatar we hate sony and praise ***, please flame my post i really care :-p.

PS: i really enjoy paying 200 dollars for each version of windows that comes out.

Where does it say that people don't think MS is evil? It's just the fact that Sony is doing a lot wrong, some of which is aimed directly at the consumers, all in a close period of time. It's like they are going out of their way to just f things up.

[Fonz]

TheKeck i think they just assasinated Miyamoto too. :)

[DropD98]

To me, this seems like nothing new. This is just the same thing that every big corporation is doing in one fashion or another... Sony is just another ***, Wal-mart, Enron, etc. to me... I see no need in bashing one over the other, and won't affect my decision over me purchasing anything with "Sony" on the box... if it's the better product/service, I will buy it...

[noxa]

And yes, Windows prices are insane. Have you looked at the requirements for Vista? They're insane for an OS. Also, it comes in something like five flavors, one of them called "gaming edition" which I have the feeling it's going to be more expensive then the rest.

Do you know how much it costs to develop Windows, handle customer support, support an entire multi-national research lab, and remain profitable? If you don't like the price or the fact that shareholders demand that their company doesn’t go under, use Linux, move out of a capitalist country and have fun.

As for the requirements: use DOS or Windows 3.1 if you are so worried. There is only so much you can do as a developer without making use of Moore's law. Man, I sure do hate that I need broadband, a 9x00 Radeon and a 2Ghz CPU to play Half-Life 2 when I could play HL1 on a P90 and dialup! Those bastards! There are no advantages to shaders, lower latency, and higher resolutions at all!

And come on, if they only offered one or two editions everyone like you would moan about the 'bloat' from all the stuff you don't need. You must also realize that not all the editions will be sold retail to consumers: Starter will come on cheap eMachines boxes, Small Business will come on Dell boxes shipped through their SB program, Pro will be sold retail and on high end machines, and Ultimate will come on Alienware/custom systems.
By offering editions targeted at the intended end use it saves you, the consumer, money (not paying for stuff you don't need) and saves us your whining ('omg I can't believe they included feature X, I don't use feature X and thus it is useless and no one should have it!'). Of course, you'll whine anyway, as that's what you do.

MS bashing is so passé. Please grow up.

[Captain Awesome]

Sony is just another ***, Wal-mart, Enron, etc. to me


While I agree on your first few choices. Enron is a bit extreme, dont ya think?


lol

[Achilles]

How can anyone compare MS or Sony to Enron I have no idea. If Sony and MS are your definition of evil than your bar is too damn low. You’ve got Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Dahmer, and Sony… right. How about calling them shady and saving the evil for things that actually hurt people in more ways than just not giving them full time stock options or giving more marketing money to brick and mortar stores. Nintendo got whacked with fines in Europe for price fixing, does that make them evil too?

What especially shocks me is how so many people on the internet can casually condemn an entire company of 30,000+ people as evil based on how they market something or a stupid piece of DRM software.

[Kelegacy]

Yes they deserve the bad press, and I hope they burn in the hell!
And do you also wish that there was only one console company, a joint venture between EA and Microsoft (and maybe EvAv), that homogenizes the industry?

I haven't been screwed by Sony. I dont know who thinks they have, because I have a great set of consoles from them that play incredible games. But then again, I'm not pathologically hateful or have a loyalist agenda. (not aiming that last bit at you, Perigon)

[51|RandoM]

Lol, what a joke.

Most companies with a channel HAVE to behave this way, or risk losing their channel. Ever notice when you buy direct from a publisher/manufacturer it almost always list price, or even higher? Undercutting your channel is a big mistake in any business, fyi.

It isn't price fixing, as such.

It is mildy entertaining to watch the retards call damnation on the megacorps that created the lifestyle they now enjoy. You're either immature, stupid, hypocritical, or some combination of the three. You can grow out of the first, consciously avoid the third, but the second is a life sentence.

[DropD98]

While I agree on your first few choices. Enron is a bit extreme, dont ya think?


lol

LOL. Yeah, I was joking with the Enron bit. But my point was that a lot of companies do a lot of things we wouldn't like and/or agree with to turn a profit and to keep the companies successful. They all do it.

P.S. I never said anything about Sony, or any other company for that matter, as being evil.

EDIT: Also was just pointing out that despite Sony having these issues, overal its not going to affect my decision to buy Sony product unless it sucks as a standalone product.

[Dabombpizza]

MS bashing is so passé. Please grow up.
I would hardly call complaining about the price of an operating system "MS Bashing". Fortunately you were able to pry your lips off of Microsofts testicles to correct my mistake I didn't make. I thank you for that. I thank you for failing to point out the fact that both Linux and OSX can, arguably, offer more functionality at a fraction of the price (although you suffer from lack of compatability). I'm also glad you didn't mention the fact that XP does not work out of box if hooked up to broadband, usually contracting a virus within the first thirty minutes (that's sooo worth $200).

And have you looked at Vistas hardware requirements? As usual, MS has decided to fuck scalabilty (at least it appears so as of now) and they're going to require your mom and dad to upgrade that hardware in order to run a current gen OS.

Fortunately I switched my parents over to Linux :D
I also think this is the wrong thread to have an OS debate in...

EDIT: And MS customer support is one big fucking joke.
DOUBLE EDIT: I doubt creating special "editions" will save the customer money, but we will see. I just can't envision what would be in the "gaming" edition, but it may prove to be a very good idea.

[Player 1]

<ignores Dabombpizza>

Damn.. looks like common sense got to this post before I could get a word in.

My work here is done.:p

Achilles: nice mention of Nintendo - the silence is deafening.

[Dabombpizza]

Damn.. looks like common sense got to this post before I could get a word in.

If you were common sense then Athena sprouted from my head last night.

EDIT: Does the Ignore you added to your post mean you are ignorance now? :D

[EvilBob46]

Do you know how much it costs to develop Windows, handle customer support, support an entire multi-national research lab, and remain profitable?

Hundreds of Millions of Dollars less than Microsoft's total earnings?

[Player 1]

EDIT: Does the Ignore you added to your post mean you are ignorance now? :D

No, it means that, despite other's attempts to bring common sense to this topic, it only works if your comments are ignored.

Duh.

[Dabombpizza]

No, it means that, despite other's attempts to bring common sense to this topic, it only works if your comments are ignored.

Duh.
Yea, we wouldn't want to think in and discuss in an open manner, best we just stick to common sense and do what you tell us to do I suppose.

Hey Maw! Git ma damn moonshine!

[Citizen Philip]

...

MS bashing is so passé. Please grow up.

Shit stinks. Microsoft is an outhouse. So is Sony. Big deal? Neither of them deserve to be defended. Microsoft has billions in cash because it controls a monopoly with enough clout to defeat the US Goverment's attempt to break them up, and is currently engaged in numerous anti-trust suits around the globe. Please, get over yourself.

[Kagger]

Yeah they can rot in hell... Why is every CD "15 dollars", why is every movie "20 dollars", why is every video game "50 dollars".... Why is every video game console "300 dollars"? Why are they ALL released on Tuesday? Regular movies in the theatres on Wednesday? Thursday best night for TV??? And of course Chruch and Football on Sunday eheh... It ain't simply competition driving those things.


I hope you were joking about the bold part, be cause alot of Sony First Party Games come out at $40, ratchet and clank, etc.

[DoubleUranium]

What especially shocks me is how so many people on the internet can casually condemn an entire company of 30,000+ people as evil based on how they market something or a stupid piece of DRM software.

Since when is it wrong to judge a company based on their public actions? They rootkitted thousands+ of PCs without their consumer's knowledge. They either knew what they were doing and suck, or they had no idea what they were doing, were entirely ignorant, therefore they still suck.

[51|RandoM]

Since when is it wrong to judge a company based on their public actions? They rootkitted thousands+ of PCs without their consumer's knowledge. They either knew what they were doing and suck, or they had no idea what they were doing, were entirely ignorant, therefore they still suck.

You're showing a marked lack of reading comprehension skills.

His point was that regardless of what that company did, you can hardly say that all 30,000 employees did it. Are you dumb enough to think they sent a memo out to every employee saying, "hey, we have this new DRM scheme planned, what do you think?"

People like you are walking demonstration of mob mentality.

[Heretic Machine]

And do you also wish that there was only one console company, a joint venture between EA and Microsoft (and maybe EvAv), that homogenizes the industry?

Ok, just so we're clear on my last post, I've edited it slightly to better reflect my motive for posting it.

[RMan]

Do you know how much it costs to develop Windows, handle customer support, support an entire multi-national research lab, and remain profitable?
Look, I'm not MS bashing here, but please, do you really think the pricing for MS products is based on costs, like a standard product with competition? Do you also think that AT&T just had to charge over a buck a minute for long distance before the government broke them up? They charge that because the nature of an OS allows them to (which is the same thing we'd have with phone, power, or any other controllable infrastructure that had no government intervention). They charge what people are willing to pay, but since an OS is not conducive to competition, that value is pretty high. Regardless, it is absolutely NOT based on their costs, and that’s extremely obvious (I mean, they’ve grown consistently fast and have a war-chest that could buy 3rd world countries, you don’t do that when you’re just profitable).

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Achilles: nice mention of Nintendo - the silence is deafening.

Yes, because common sense dictates that Nintendo is by far the worst of all the companies in the world. Hell in the console world they are the ONLY one who EVER does anything bad. MS and Sony are angels compared to the spawn of Lucifer that is Nintendo. :rolleyes:



Maybe someday the masses (and the American government) will figure out that letting giant companies gain large amounts of control and clout is a BAD THING.


Edited to include more lollipops and gummy bears!!

[TheKeck]

TheKeck i think they just assasinated Miyamoto too. :)

The scoundrels!!! ;)

[Player 1]

Originally Posted by Player 1
No, it means that, despite other's attempts to bring common sense to this topic, it only works if your comments are ignored.

Duh.
Yea, we wouldn't want to think in and discuss in an open manner, best we just stick to common sense and do what you tell us to do I suppose.

Hey Maw! Git ma damn moonshine!

You know something? Each post you make supports my claim.

I look forward to your response.

[Achilles]

Since when is it wrong to judge a company based on their public actions? They rootkitted thousands+ of PCs without their consumer's knowledge. They either knew what they were doing and suck, or they had no idea what they were doing, were entirely ignorant, therefore they still suck.I never said you can't call them on the shady stuff that they do. The Rootkit thing was a debacle to be sure. You can judge that all you want and even boycott their stuff. But to call their company evil over it is juvenile.

These companies are made up of many divisions, and employ many thousands of people. They make products which most of us enjoy and are for the most part very good which is why their at the top of their industries. To think that if they do or are accused of doing anything shady than the whole company is evil is playground stuff. Evil is blowing up a competitor’s business as they did in the days of the industrial revolution, or working people in the coal mines until they died of the black lung for no wage. Or packing meat improperly in order to reduce costs. To someone with any perspective at all on the history of industry this is incredibly minor stuff, even compared to Enron, or the present day Big Oil price fixing, but on the internet suddenly any transgression gets them the maximum judgment.

[Player 1]

Yes, because common sense dictates that Nintendo is by far the worst of all the companies in the world.

No. Common sense and a tiny bit of knowledge dictates that Nintendo are no better and no worse AS A COMPANY than any other console manufacturer after your wallet. My appreciation of the point that Achilles raised - and the fact that nobody was willing to comment on it shows how happy (most) gamers are to ignore the (proven) crimes of Nintendo whilst they get frothy with all their finger-pointing at Sony (and other companies).

A little common sense would go a long way - but it seems too much to ask for most people.

Hell in the console world they are the ONLY one who EVER does anything bad. MS and Sony are angels compared to the spawn of Lucifer that is Nintendo. :rolleyes:

My own particular point of view, and the reason why I am so critical of Nintendo is that they are as guilty as the next guy. My continued references to their shady incidents are inversely proportional to the determination of all those gamers who pretend it doesn't happen.

It helps keep things in perspective - which, lets be honest, this culture has completely lost it's grip on.

[Dabombpizza]

You know something? Each post you make supports my claim.

I look forward to your response.
I know it supports your claim! That's why I'm agreeing with you! Are you rebutting my agreements? C'mon Player 1, you lead with your suave industry insiderness, and your delightful double speak (everyone is entitled to their opinion, but yours is ultimately right because you have so much "experience"), and I'll follow you blindly from post to post. And in each post you can educate me of my ignorance! You'll be the Evil Avatar messiah, leading the blind gamers to a land of digital milk and electric honey!

[Player 1]

I think it's time for your medication.

[Achilles]

People like you are walking demonstration of mob mentality.It's easy to rail against corporations till you realize that they employ nearly everyone and can be started by anyone (with a lot of planning and hard work). Some people don't get that (not saying Double is like that, since his question of judging them is valid), to them corporations are just faceless punching bags that don't ever need to charge for the stuff that they make, but do so because they're mean.

As for the price of things being based on cost. It's never based on cost. Cost is just the number that the price can't go below. Price is based on demand, supply, and what people are willing to pay. People are willing to pay $80 for a home eddition of windows, so that's what gets charged. To the consumer it's a good value; you only have to upgrade your OS once every 5 years or so (unless you own a mac) and $80 ain't a lot. MS may have a 90% profit margin on it, but they roll that money into other things like R&D and new products, or keep it around to protect against a sudden drop in business. They also give a ton of it back to their employees who get paid much higher than the industry average.

[Banacek]

No. Common sense and a tiny bit of knowledge dictates that Nintendo are no better and no worse AS A COMPANY than any other console manufacturer after your wallet. My appriciation of the point - and the fact that nobody was willing to comment on it shows how happy (most) gamers are to ignore the (proven) crimes of Nintendo whilst they get frothy with all the finger-pointing at Sony (and other companies).

I totally agree with this. I'm just wondering what is going on at Sony at the decision making level. I also don't understand why you're so passionate about proving the point on EA.

[Banacek]

It's easy to rail against corporations till you realize that they employ nearly everyone and can be started by anyone (with a lot of planning and hard work). Some people don't get that (not saying Double is like that, since his question of judging them is valid), to them corporations are just faceless punching bags that don't ever need to charge for the stuff that they make, but do so because they're mean.

That was always my problem with people that corporations are evil. Corporations, I think, tend to employ a lot of people. You know, gives them ways to make a living...

[TheKeck]

They also give a ton of it back to their employees who get paid much higher than the industry average.

Do you have a source for this?

(I'm not saying you're making it up, I'm just curious. Want to look into it.)

[Achilles]

Do you have a source for this?

(I'm not saying you're making it up, I'm just curious. Want to look into it.)I've got no web-based sources on that. But I've known several people who have worked there off and on, and according to trade magazines their wages are extremely good. You can start there as a basic level tester (full time) making 50k a year. And their contract rates are also very good, especially for specialists. A contract tester in a non-games division starts at $15-$18 an hour, and can earn up to $32 an hour if they get to be an STE3 if I remember correctly.

[noxa]

both Linux and OSX can, arguably, offer more functionality at a fraction of the price (although you suffer from lack of compatability). I'm also glad you didn't mention the fact that XP does not work out of box if hooked up to broadband, usually contracting a virus within the first thirty minutes (that's sooo worth $200) .
Very, very bad comparisons. First off, OSX and Linux are not in the same category. Linux is OSS and (in unsupported configs) free. OSX is proprietary (no, the released Darwin kernel does not count as it is useless) and has a $150/year tax. It costs me much more to keep my Mac up to date than my PC – I’ve bought 4 copies of OSX in the past 4 years, and one copy of XP – you do the math. Second, would you put up a 4 year old copy of Linux + apps (standard desktop/development set) unprotected on the net? Hopefully not – you would put it behind a hardware firewall and install the latest builds and patches. I don’t see how this is any different than an XP box – get a slipstreamed SP2 CD or a new copy and you are safe, and if you are on broadband you should have a hardware firewall.

And have you looked at Vistas hardware requirements? As usual, MS has decided to fuck scalabilty (at least it appears so as of now) and they're going to require your mom and dad to upgrade that hardware in order to run a current gen OS.
I can run it in a VM just fine with things set to look like XP. It even runs with all the flashy graphical effects on my 2100+ and cheapo Radeon 9200. As for my mom and dad, they will just buy a new machine – not as many people as you think upgrade their os, they just wait until their machine dies or can’t run their latest software and pick up another $500 HP at BestBuy. In a year or two, that new HP will have Vista on it and they’ll have taken the upgrade without problems.

EDIT: And MS customer support is one big fucking joke.
Two areas of support: end user customer support and developer support. The dealings I’ve had with end user support have been great – 5 minutes of chatting with a person and I had my Bluetooth keyboard/mouse replaced for free – I didn’t even have to send in my other set. When’s the last time you called up the guys behind mplayer or KPresenter for help? Have fun on the mailing lists! And if you are a developer, msdn.com is the ULTIMATE resource. No other developer resource comes close in any respect - believe me, I develop commercial software of OSX and developer.apple.com is almost worse than nothing.

DOUBLE EDIT: I doubt creating special "editions" will save the customer money, but we will see. I just can't envision what would be in the "gaming" edition, but it may prove to be a very good idea.
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_editions.asp
Check it out. As I said, the editions are all targeted at different groups. Check the feature matrix to figure out how they differ and why.

[TheKeck]

I've got no web-based sources on that. But I've known several people who have worked there off and on, and according to trade magazines their wages are extremely good. You can start there as a basic level tester (full time) making 50k a year. And their contract rates are also very good, especially for specialists. A contract tester in a non-games division starts at $15-$18 an hour, and can earn up to $32 an hour if they get to be an STE3 if I remember correctly.

Oh, all right.

[Player 1]

I totally agree with this. I'm just wondering what is going on at Sony at the decision making level. I also don't understand why you're so passionate about proving the point on EA.

It's precisely the same mentality as with Nintendo:

My continued references to their shady incidents are inversely proportional to the determination of all those gamers who pretend it doesn't happen.

However, in EA's case I refuse to accept everything they do is wrong (popular opinion*) by making constant references to their successes and achievements.

I absolutely will not ride the populist bandwagon that trundles through gamer culture. It is my right, option (and in some cases, job) to look at these issues from many angles rather than the most obvious one.

Whenever you see me go against the flow of popular opinion - that's the motive.

You'll rarely see me make a "I agree" post - simply because there's not much point. It adds nothing to a discussion other than to raise your post count.


*Evil Avatar have managed to post news stories to the tune that EA dropping retail prices is another example of them ripping everyone off. Additionally, another Evil Avatar news story managed to turn EA's news of distributing Katamari Damacy through Europe (meaning that European gamers finally get a Katamari game) is another example of EA being rip-off merchants.

[Dabombpizza]

Very, very bad comparisons. First off, OSX and Linux are not in the same category. Linux is OSS and (in unsupported configs) free. OSX is proprietary (no, the released Darwin kernel does not count as it is useless) and has a $150/year tax. It costs me much more to keep my Mac up to date than my PC – I’ve bought 4 copies of OSX in the past 4 years, and one copy of XP – you do the math.

You seem to be more educated than me on this issue, so I'll trust what you're saying. I think that Linux and OSX are very comparable, as they are rival operating systems. I see what you are saying on the OSX update issue, and how they update often.

Also, I have installed an XP with SP2 and still managed to get worms on it. To be fair I was networked on a college campus which is a virus nightmare.

You put some very solid reasons forth on Vista, almost to the point of changing my mind about it. From what I heard I didn't know it was scalable at all. I guess I'll just have to eat my words right here.

However you and I have had a much different experience with MS support, and I still think Windows is a security nightmare that could be changed if MS really wanted to.

I'm glad you whipped out some actual points as to why my argument failed, which is something rarely seen. Thanks for the article and a little bit to think about.

EDIT: Windows Vista Starter edition sounds like a freakin' nightmare. I hope I never have to troubleshoot someone on that. It only supports 3 applications at a time and only supports up to 256mb ram. Hopefully it's like $50.

[jeffool]

Ah great. Do I really have to justify every insult at a company by naming all people in the company that the insult is aimed at? Why can't I just say "fuck those guys," and be done with it? When did everyone get so anal?

I mean, I think we all understand that usually no one has beef with the guys that run the CD manufactuering and packaging machines or even the artists that work with them on a personal level. When I say "Fuck EA," I don't mean fuck the guys developing at Tiburon, EALA, and everywhere else. I mean fuck the guys who have decided that over-time rules don't apply to their employees, and that it's good policy to burn through employees just because you can always find someone else to do the work. (Though I hear they've made great strides.)

And Player 1, that link in your signature compares ba's commenting on a video and saying 'wow', to his commenting on screenshots and saying 'let's wait and see it in motion, because their last video really sucked'. (And as I recall, it did.) By pointing out the passages you do, you're being very misleading. Come on man.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

No. Common sense and a tiny bit of knowledge dictates that Nintendo are no better and no worse AS A COMPANY than any other console manufacturer after your wallet. My appreciation of the point that Achilles raised - and the fact that nobody was willing to comment on it shows how happy (most) gamers are to ignore the (proven) crimes of Nintendo whilst they get frothy with all their finger-pointing at Sony (and other companies).

My own particular point of view, and the reason why I am so critical of Nintendo is that they are as guilty as the next guy. My continued references to their shady incidents are inversely proportional to the determination of all those gamers who pretend it doesn't happen.

It helps keep things in perspective - which, lets be honest, this culture has completely lost it's grip on.

Then why don't you rail against ALL the companies? The fact is you only pick on Nintendo, and repeatedly. You defend Sony pretty often as well. If they are all equally guilty, why single one out?

For the record, I know that Nintendo has done many shitty things. When they were doing all their retail strongarming I was very young, and thus it didn't affect me - I didn't know about it, wasn't old enough to buy any of their products on my own, and didn't care about what any company was doing.

Now I am old enough to follow these sorts of things. I have a problem with Sony because of things they are doing RIGHT NOW, such as the whole rootkit mess. If Nintendo does something like this, you can be sure that I will blast them for it. I've called them out in the past on things I didn't like. I've said on this very site many times that I thought Mario Sunshine was pretty poor, and I hated the whole connectivity thing. They are not immune whatsoever. I just don't see them hacking my computer.

If you equally pointed out the flaws of all companies than I would have no problem with you whatsoever. Your posts themselves are well written (unlike most on the net) and seem to have some thought behind them. I just get tired of you repeatedly bringing up Nintendo as being so terrible and leaving every other company out of it. I get tired of hearing Nintendo bashing in general, because it is everywhere. You have no idea how many times I've gotten shit from owning a Gamecube. You never hear me giving people shit for owning an Xbox or PS2. People need to get over their silly biases. Boycotting a company because they hacked your computer or did other shady things is one thing, but hating them because the bandwagon told you to do so is quite another.

Ack, that just turned into a rant. Sort through it as you please - I'm finally going to play Silent Hill 3. On the PC. Wish me luck. :p


Edit - Of course I forgot a couple other things I wanted to comment on:

I think it's time for your medication.


Kudos on this comment. I laughed out loud. :D


OSX...has a $150/year tax


I don't actually own a current Mac system - what is this "tax" that you speak of?

[Achilles]

I don't actually own a current Mac system - what is this "tax" that you speak of?I believe what he's talking about is that mac owners have to buy a new OS every year if they want to run the new programs that are released. Unlike Microsoft programs the newest version of mac programs don't run on old OSs from what I understand. They also release a new OS every year instead of releasing free updates to the old OS like MS does.

[Dabombpizza]

I believe what he's talking about is that mac owners have to buy a new OS every year if they want to run the new programs that are released. Unlike Microsoft programs the newest version of mac programs don't run on old OSs from what I understand. They also release a new OS every year instead of releasing free updates to the old OS like MS does.
I haven't ever encountered a problem of new versions of mac programs not running on my out of date 10.2, but I'm relatively new to the whole process. It seems like some programs that take advantage of the new features will not run on the old versions, but that's not many. And if you're a mac user, it seems that you don't use many programs outside of your core set anyway (iLife, iWork, Word).

[Achilles]

I haven't ever encountered a problem of new versions of mac programs not running on my out of date 10.2, but I'm relatively new to the whole process. It seems like some programs that take advantage of the new features will not run on the old versions, but that's not many. And if you're a mac user, it seems that you don't use many programs outside of your core set anyway (iLife, iWork, Word).Huh. Well I was just taking a guess based on some complaints I'd heard, but it could be that they had really old machines or something. Hopefully noxa will explain.

[Dabombpizza]

Huh. Well I was just taking a guess based on some complaints I'd heard, but it could be that they had really old machines or something. Hopefully noxa will explain.
There is a transition in Mac operating systems from OS9 and OSX. OSX is a completly different kernel from OS9, so OSX programs can't run on OS9. But OSX has OS9 emulation. Sort of like an XP upgrade from 98.

[bobbler]

So... when are the moderators going to, like, do their jobs and filter out the non gaming related stuff? Or is negative press for Sony completely acceptable, regardless of the content? If the content of this forum has shifted to Gaming news + Negative Sony press, you should probably fix the subtitle to correspond to it.

I am beginning to question why I bother coming to this forum anymore, its full of so many waste-of-space topics that pulling anything useful from this forum often takes more energy than its worth.

[mister_slim]

Regardless, it is absolutely NOT based on their costs, and that’s extremely obvious (I mean, they’ve grown consistently fast and have a war-chest that could buy 3rd world countries, you don’t do that when you’re just profitable).
Office and Windows profit margins are both consistently around 70-80%.
*Evil Avatar have managed to post news stories to the tune that EA dropping retail prices is another example of them ripping everyone off. Additionally, another Evil Avatar news story managed to turn EA's news of distributing Katamari Damacy through Europe (meaning that European gamers finally get a Katamari game) is another example of EA being rip-off merchants.
Is this your example of the kind of accurate and factual reporting that EvAv should be doing?
I believe what he's talking about is that mac owners have to buy a new OS every year if they want to run the new programs that are released. Unlike Microsoft programs the newest version of mac programs don't run on old OSs from what I understand. They also release a new OS every year instead of releasing free updates to the old OS like MS does.
Well, it's about every 18 months, though it varies quite a bit. Costs quite a bit less too. Some programs do break, but it's not that common. Supposedly, after the release of Tiger there are no major changes to be made to the OS (of course, the switch to x86 is coming, so who knows). I haven't bothered to upgrade to Tiger, and I haven't had any problems. Different business model, basically.

[Player 1]

Is this your example of the kind of accurate and factual reporting that EvAv should be doing?

No, if you care to remain in the context of the post it was written in then it's perfectly clear what the example demonstrates.

Still, by taking it out of context and shining a different light on it I'm sure you can present it however you please.

Apparently that's what the suffix "...with attitude" seems to amount to.

[mister_slim]

No, if you care to remain in the context of the post it was written in then it's perfectly clear what the example demonstrates.

Still, by taking it out of context and shining a different light on it I'm sure you can present it however you please.
I just did what you did with your examples.

Why do you think you should get special treatment?

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Of course Player 1 completely ignores my questons that I asked him. Not that this particularly surprises me. :p

[Player 1]

I'm not ignoring you - I just had, you know, things like sleep and work to distract me for a while.

Mister_Slim, if you check, 9 times out of every 10 I'm actually making efforts to put the situation back INTO context (such as dismissing why, in a debate about exclusives and their effect on hardware sales, the QUALITY of the game is irrelevent - particularly to someone who's trying to argue they're a major factor and then citing the Gamecube's sales as a reference point). The other 10% is countering fucking stupid flames directed at me from people who can't bear to have the opinion challenged so resort to kicking and screaming - or better yet, they'll insult me in topics that I haven't even participated in. That's really nice. Really reminds me of a good ol' fashion lynching like the used to have back in the day!

MG: What was your question? And, you'll have to excuse me if I don't answer it anyway. I'm really rather tired of you guys getting all upset and huffy everytime you hear a few words that you don't like. And if it was the "Why do you only pick on Nintendo" then you really need to scroll back a page or two. I already showed you exactly what drives my opinions and I'm tired of repeating my answers to people that never paid attention the first time around.

[mister_slim]

Mister_Slim, if you check, 9 times out of every 10 I'm actually making efforts to put the situation back INTO context.
Then why do you miscontextualize EvAv newsposts in order to attack the site?
(such as dismissing why, in a debate about exclusives and their effect on hardware sales, the QUALITY of the game is irrelevent - particularly to someone who's trying to argue they're a major factor and then citing the Gamecube's sales as a reference point)
I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

[Kelegacy]

I am beginning to question why I bother coming to this forum anymore, its full of so many waste-of-space topics that pulling anything useful from this forum often takes more energy than its worth.

If you pull a Jerry Maguire, I might be unable to refusing coming with you.

[Player 1]

Then why do you miscontextualize EvAv newsposts in order to attack the site?

Erm.. ..did you just read what I wrote?

Additionally, your phrasing of the statement shows that you've already made your mind up on why I do things - despite my repeated statements precisely detailing my motives. You don't need me for this conversation, you're already speaking for the both of us.

Perhaps you can understand why I tire of responding to questions where the one asking has no real interest in hearing any answer other than the one they want to hear.

You're simply reinforcing my observations that everything goes swimmingly so long as you go with the flow. If you dare to present an alternative view or challenge popular, unquestioning opinion then a witch-hunt will occur.

http://sammy.hippy.jp/sketch/pic/large/p_spanish_inquisition.jpg

Look - you even wear the same colours! ;)

[mister_slim]

Erm.. ..did you just read what I wrote?

Additionally, your phrasing of the statement shows that you've already made your mind up on why I do things - despite my repeated statements precisely detailing my motives. You don't need me for this conversation, you're already speaking for the both of us.

Perhaps you can understand why I tire of responding to questions where the one asking has no real interest in hearing any answer other than the one they want to hear.
You need to develop some intellectual honesty. You can't, for example, characterize the Pro-G newspost as claiming EA are "rip-off merchants". But you feel free to claim that, and then whine I am twisting your words for calling you on it.

[Player 1]

You need to develop some intellectual honesty.

Son, I've got it where it counts. If it's been good enough for the industry and press for 15 years then, frankly, I couldn't care whether you think it's good enough or not.

Perhaps that's why you have such a bee in your bonnet about me - you consider me 'unworthy' yet I'm the one who's got the podium. Ain't that a kick in the teeth?

[mister_slim]

Perhaps that's why you have such a bee in your bonnet about me - you consider me 'unworthy' yet I'm the one who's got the podium. Ain't that a kick in the teeth?
You have the podium?