Official Xbox 360 Launch Lineup Confirmed

[fitbabits]

Gamecloud (http://www.gamecloud.com) has the details (http://www.gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=2285).

Microsoft has finally announced the official line-up of games that will be available in stores at or before their Xbox 360 console officially launches on Nov. 22. 18 games are included in the launch line up which are:

"Amped 3" (2K Sports)
"Call of Duty 2" (Activision Inc.)
"Condemned: Criminal Origins" (SEGA Corp.)
"FIFA Soccer 06 Road to 2006 FIFA World Cup" (Electronic Arts Inc.)
"GUN(TM)" (Activision)
"Kameo: Elements of Power" (Microsoft Game Studios and Rare Ltd.)
"Madden NFL 06" (Electronic Arts)
"NBA 2K6" (2K Sports)
"NBA LIVE 06" (Electronic Arts)
"Need for Speed Most Wanted" (Electronic Arts)
"NHL 2K6" (2K Sports)
"Perfect Dark Zero" (Microsoft Game Studios and Rare Ltd.)
"Peter Jackson's King Kong: The Official Game of the Movie" (Ubisoft)
"Project Gotham Racing 3" (Microsoft Game Studios and Bizarre Creations Ltd.)
"Quake 4(TM)" (id Software and Activision)
"Ridge Racer 6" (Namco Ltd.)
"Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 06" (Electronic Arts)
"Tony Hawk's American Wasteland" (Activision)
Regardless of how you personally feel about Microsoft, this is easily one of the strongest launch lineups ever. The gauntelt has officially been thrown and the next generation is beginning with a bang - not the whisper some people hoped.

[bapenguin]

They have every genre covered...except RPG...losing Oblivion hurts them...more than they think.

Lets not forget about the 10-15 LiveArcade titles available at launch as well.

Press RElease:

Microsoft Announces Xbox 360 Day One Launch Lineup — Strongest Launch in the History of Video Game Consoles

On Nov. 22, 18 games and 13 accessories will be available for Xbox 360 system.

REDMOND, Wash. — Nov. 14, 2005 — Microsoft Corp. today announced that 18 Xbox 360™ games, spanning all the popular genres, and 13 Xbox 360 accessories will be available when the video game and entertainment system launches in North America on Nov. 22. Exclusive, thrilling racing games such as “Project Gotham Racing® 3,” sports games that hit hard with high-definition graphics and sound such as “Madden NFL 06” and “NBA 2K6,” action-adventure games such as “Kameo™: Elements of Power™,” innovative titles with multiplayer co-op gameplay like “Perfect Dark Zero™,” and intense action exclusives such as “Call of Duty® 2” contribute to the broadest and deepest retail launch lineup in console history.

The following Xbox 360 games will be available in North America retail locations on or before the console is launched Nov. 22:

· “Amped 3” (2K Sports)

· “Call of Duty 2” (Activision Inc.)

· “Condemned: Criminal Origins” (SEGA Corp.)

· “FIFA Soccer 06 Road to 2006 FIFA World Cup” (Electronic Arts Inc.)

· “GUN™” (Activision)

· “Kameo: Elements of Power” (Microsoft Game Studios and Rare Ltd.)

· “Madden NFL 06” (Electronic Arts)

· “NBA 2K6” (2K Sports)

· “NBA LIVE 06” (Electronic Arts)

· “Need for Speed Most Wanted” (Electronic Arts)

· “NHL 2K6” (2K Sports)

· “Perfect Dark Zero” (Microsoft Game Studios and Rare Ltd.)

· “Peter Jackson’s King Kong: The Official Game of the Movie” (Ubisoft)

· “Project Gotham Racing 3” (Microsoft Game Studios and Bizarre Creations Ltd.)

· “Quake 4™” (id Software and Activision)

· “Ridge Racer 6” (Namco Ltd.)

· “Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 06” (Electronic Arts)

· “Tony Hawk’s American Wasteland” (Activision)

Xbox 360 launch titles from Microsoft Game Studios will be competitively priced, with standard editions of “Kameo: Elements of Power,” “Project Gotham Racing 3” and “Perfect Dark Zero” all retailing for $49.99 (U.S. ERP). A two-disc “Perfect Dark Zero” Limited Collector’s Edition will also be available this holiday season for an ERP of $59.99. Xbox 360 accessories will range in price from $11.99 to $99.99. More information on all these products can be found at http://www.xbox.com.

“There has never been a more exciting time to be a gamer,” said Peter Moore, corporate vice president of Worldwide Marketing and Publishing for the Home and Entertainment Division of Microsoft. “Xbox 360 will deliver mind-blowing experiences across multiple genres, no matter what your personal gaming preferences are. On Nov. 22, the next generation of gaming begins. From there, gamers will be overwhelmed with the pipeline of amazing Xbox 360 games yet to come.”

Xbox Live Arcade Launch Lineup

Adding to the already tremendous lineup of launch-day titles, Xbox Live® Arcade for Xbox 360 plans to offer between 12 and 15 bite-sized game titles on launch day one. With Xbox Live Arcade, casual and hard-core gamers alike will find a wide variety of game genres for download spanning action arcade titles such as “Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved” and “Mutant Storm Reloaded,” coin-op and retro classics such as Xbox Live multiplayer-enabled “Joust” and “Gauntlet,” puzzle games such as “Hexic® HD” and “Bejeweled 2,” casual sports games such as “Bankshot Billiards® 2,” light strategy titles such as “Outpost Kaloki,” and card and board games such as “Hardwood Backgammon” and “Hardwood Hearts.” Each Xbox Live Arcade game includes a free downloadable trial version so game players can try before they buy.

Xbox Live Retail Offerings

Also available on Nov. 22 are two Xbox Live retail offerings for gamers who want to up the ante on their online gameplay experience from the free Silver level of service to Gold membership. The 12-month Premium Starter Pack has an ERP of $69.99 and contains a 12-month subscription to Xbox Live, an Xbox 360 headset, a full version of the Xbox Live Arcade game “Bankshot Billiards 2,” a $20 (U.S.) game rebate coupon good for any Xbox 360 game title* and 200 points for use on Xbox Live Marketplace. The three-month Premium Starter Pack has an ERP of $39.99 and contains a three-month subscription to Xbox Live, an Xbox 360 headset, a full version of the Xbox Live Arcade game “Joust,” a $10 (U.S.) game rebate coupon good for any Xbox 360 game title* and 100 points for use on Xbox Live Marketplace. With nearly three-quarters of all launch games on Xbox 360 Xbox Live multiplayer-enabled, there’s never been a better time to get connected to Xbox Live.

In addition, to allow gamers to customize and enhance the Xbox 360 experience, 13 Xbox 360 accessories will be available by launch day:

· Xbox 360 Wireless Controller

· Xbox 360 Controller (wired)

· Xbox 360 Wireless Networking Adapter

· Xbox 360 Universal Media Remote

· Xbox 360 Faceplates

· Xbox 360 Hard Drive (20 GB)

· Xbox 360 Headset

· Xbox 360 Memory Unit (64 MB)

· Xbox 360 Play & Charge Kit

· Xbox 360 Rechargeable Battery Pack

· Xbox 360 Component HD-AV Cable

· Xbox 360 S-Video AV Cable (U.S. only)

· Xbox 360 VGA HD AV Cable

About Xbox and Xbox 360

Microsoft revolutionized the gaming industry with the November 2001 launch of Xbox® (http://www.xbox.com), its first-generation video games and entertainment system, now sold in 26 countries around the world. This holiday season Microsoft debuts its next-generation system, Xbox 360, in Europe, Japan and North America, to be followed by availability in Australia, Colombia, Hong Kong, Korea, Mexico, New Zealand, Singapore and Taiwan in 2006. Xbox 360 is the most powerful video game and entertainment system, delivering the best games, the next generation of the premier Xbox Live online gaming service and unique digital entertainment experiences that revolve around you.

About Xbox Live

Xbox Live continues to transform and unite Xbox communities worldwide, with a presence in 24 countries, and a global community of more than 2 million members. As the first and only global, unified online console games service, Xbox Live offers world-class games, intelligent matchmaking, tournaments, unique programming and integration with Xbox.com. More information can be found online at http://www.xbox.com/live.

About Microsoft

Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq “MSFT”) is the worldwide leader in software, services and solutions that help people and businesses realize their full potential.

[fitbabits]

They have every genre covered...except RPG...losing Oblivion hurts them...more than they think.

Agreed, although would it have hurt Microsoft more to rush out an unfinished product? I think it would have.

Anyone here taking the 22nd off of work?

[Tricky Thumb]

I don't really see this as a strong lineup, a lot of those games are current-gen ports and the rest aren't all too exceptional.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I'm kind of with Tricky Thumb on this one. Most of those titles (all but 5 or so) are not exclusives. Some have been available for quite a while elsewhere.

Regardless, is this the list of titles coming out LAUNCH DAY, or are they in that magical Launch Window that MS seems to love talking about so much?

[fitbabits]

I don't really see this as a strong lineup, a lot of those games are current-gen ports and the rest aren't all too exceptional.
I count six exclusive Xbox 360 titles. That's impressive for a launch lineup, regardless of the other 12.

[Morratut]

I'm kind of with Tricky Thumb on this one. Most of those titles (all but 5 or so) are not exclusives. Some have been available for quite a while elsewhere.

Regardless, is this the list of titles coming out LAUNCH DAY, or are they in that magical Launch Window that MS seems to love talking about so much?

See this...

in stores at or before their Xbox 360 console officially launches on Nov. 22.

I think this is a good strong lineup. In my opinion its the best i've known :cool:

[Tricky Thumb]

I count six exclusive Xbox 360 titles. That's impressive for a launch lineup, regardless of the other 12.

It's not the number of exclusives that count to me, but the worth of the titles in question that I'm interested in.

[bapenguin]

I don't really see this as a strong lineup, a lot of those games are current-gen ports and the rest aren't all too exceptional.

True...though I'm not sure what qualifies as exceptional. Most of the cross platforms ports are games that were rated well above 80%. If you look at the previous gen launches you have the PS2 with Madden and SSX, maybe Dynasty Warriors....

For the XBox you had Halo and.....err...Halo

Gamecube had....I don't even remember. Luigi's Mansion? LOL.

RidgeRacer is probably the weakest game on that list....that sounds pretty good to me.

[lpmiller]

it may be a strong lineup; it isn't one that interests me though.

[KamaItachi]

Balls, I think we get 6 games on launch day, although one of those is a traditional JRPG.
There may be a lot of multi-platform titles there, but I still wish we had something closer to the U.S. launch :(

[Kelegacy]

I don't really see this as a strong lineup, a lot of those games are current-gen ports and the rest aren't all too exceptional.
I agree. This looks a lot like the PSP launch (with tons of sports/EA/port titles). PDZ and Kameo look to be the exceptions to the rule, with Kameo being the only new IP, and that was intended for last gen's system. Besides Kameo, which I need to see some actual reviews about first, this launch is lackluster for me.

Wasn't the Dreamcast the greatest launch in terms of games, ever? At least, when I received my Dreamcast at Xmas, I had a ton of incredible games. Still, I cannot clearly remember.

[Heretic Machine]

Regardless of how you personally feel about Microsoft, this is easily one of the strongest launch lineups ever. The gauntelt has officially been thrown and the next generation is beginning with a bang - not the whisper some people hoped.

Keep in mind, Fita, that I respect your opinion as I ask this but: What kind of crack are you on, man? o.0

Out of that whole damn list, there is only one game I WANT, and another game I would -consider- buying. The first being Kameo, the second being Perfect Dark Zero. Sports games and racing titles are a dime a dozen, GUN turned out to be shit, and there really isn't much else there. I suppose you can make an argument for Kong, but I don't plan on buying that till the price drops (as most licensed titles do shortly after the movie gets out of theatres).

[KamaItachi]

I agree. This looks a lot like the PSP launch (with tons of sports/EA/port titles). PDZ and Kameo look to be the exceptions to the rule, with Kameo being the only new IP, and that was intended for last gen's system. Besides Kameo, which I need to see some actual reviews about first, this launch is lackluster for me.

Wasn't the Dreamcast the greatest launch in terms of games, ever? At least, when I received my Dreamcast at Xmas, I had a ton of incredible games. Still, I cannot clearly remember.

It had Soul Calibre and Powerstone on day one. Those two games alone justified the purchase of a Dreamcast.

[Tricky Thumb]

True...though I'm not sure what qualifies as exceptional. Most of the cross platforms ports are games that were rated well above 80%. If you look at the previous gen launches you have the PS2 with Madden and SSX, maybe Dynasty Warriors....

For the XBox you had Halo and.....err...Halo

Gamecube had....I don't even remember. Luigi's Mansion? LOL.

RidgeRacer is probably the weakest game on that list....that sounds pretty good to me.

I wasn't really speaking about the launch in comparison to other launches.

But, well it's not really fair to count the cross-platform games for say, the 360 and then not the PS1 games available for the PS2 at launch.

I don't really count the cross-platform games since you can play them elseware and have nearly the exact same experience. So looking at the titles you can only really play on the 360, I don't think they're worth the pricetag.

If I remember correctly Summoner was worth getting my PS2 at launch... but looking back I feel rather foolish for getting the system at launch day.

Edit note: Of course those are "backwards compat" games so I shouldn't really count them.

Also, if you look at the DC launch and how much better it was but how the DC turned out you may also say the 360's launch is sorta like the reverse. I feel there are some really awesome games coming out for it later into '06.

[Sloth]

my friend already bought Kameo. He just stares at the box right now though.

[ldi222]

GUN turned out to be shit

Gun is damn good fun, Gamespot did a huge disservice to Neversoft by coming out first with that 7.4 score. I think Gun will do quite well on 360. I dont remember so many ports for a launch lineup but it still looks pretty strong.

[bapenguin]

Keep in mind, Fita, that I respect your opinion as I ask this but: What kind of crack are you on, man? o.0

Out of that whole damn list, there is only one game I WANT, and another game I would -consider- buying. The first being Kameo, the second being Perfect Dark Zero. Sports games and racing titles are a dime a dozen, GUN turned out to be shit, and there really isn't much else there. I suppose you can make an argument for Kong, but I don't plan on buying that till the price drops (as most licensed titles do shortly after the movie gets out of theatres).

Lol, I love how Perigon is the voice of everyone on this. Perigon knows best. :rolleyes:

[EternalGamer]

I think it's definitely the strongest launch lineup since the DC, which had Soul Calibur, Powerstone, Sonic, Ready 2 Rumble (which was actually pretty cool), and NFL2K. I bought the first four and had a blast with each (even though R2R was a little shallow it was fun and had personality).

However, also like every launch outside of NES, SNES and N64 (with three spectacular Mario games), in my opinion, there is not a killer app, though Panzer Dragoon came close on the Saturn.

I'm pretty happy with this launch list and while the final verdict isn't yet it, it appears that Rare really came through. Both PDZ and Kameo look impressive and will probably be the 2 best games for the console at launch. I was very impressed with Kong and Project Gotham looks great as well. Call of Duty is not my thing, but it certainly is a head turner.

[InstaPete]

Shit, I didn't realize Condemned was going to be a launch title. After F.E.A.R., I don't think I can pass up another Monolith game.

Man, now I have no idea what to get at launch. It was going to be PDZ, Kong, and a XBL subscription, but now... damn.

[bapenguin]

However, also like every launch outside of NES, SNES and N64 (with three spectacular Mario games), in my opinion, there is not a killer app, though Panzer Dragoon came close on the Saturn.


Kameo.

On a side note...why doesn't Capcom bring back Powerstone?

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

CoD2, Quake 4... I already have on PC... Gun Im playing on Xbox right now(its not bad)... the rest I dont give a damn about, so Im still not changing my mind about not getting a 360 at launch, or anytime soon. Pretty sure that goes for a lot of people.

[novicius]

Powerstone was not a launch title -- that sucker got pushed back and back. It was Soul Calibur, Sonic, Hydro Thunder, NFL2k, the incredibly bad Blue Stinger, and a few others. Powerstone came out much later and while fun, it was still rather limited.

What they need to do is come out with a 64-player sequel to Toy Commander...

[EternalGamer]

Shit, I didn't realize Condemned was going to be a launch title. After F.E.A.R., I don't think I can pass up another Monolith game.

Man, now I have no idea what to get at launch. It was going to be PDZ, Kong, and a XBL subscription, but now... damn.

I am really curious as to what people see in Condemned. The videos I have saw look pretty lack luster. An adventure style game mixed with a dark FPS where you melee with various objects a lot. Maybe it's just the sad fact that a game being published by Sega now throws subconscious warning signs in my mind. Sad, but true.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

What they need to do is come out with a 64-player sequel to Toy Commander...


Hell yes! Toy Commander kicked ass.

[fitbabits]

Keep in mind, Fita, that I respect your opinion as I ask this but: What kind of crack are you on, man? o.0

Out of that whole damn list, there is only one game I WANT, and another game I would -consider- buying. The first being Kameo, the second being Perfect Dark Zero. Sports games and racing titles are a dime a dozen, GUN turned out to be shit, and there really isn't much else there. I suppose you can make an argument for Kong, but I don't plan on buying that till the price drops (as most licensed titles do shortly after the movie gets out of theatres).
And I respect your opinions also, Perigon.

There are three or four games on the list that I would consider 'must-buys': Condemned, Call of Duty 2, NBA 2K6 and probably Kameo. The rest are mostly meh. However, what I was getting at is that the lineup covers most every genre. I know you won one for free, but to expect it to be the Perigon Launch Lineup is expecting too much, IMO. :rolleyes:

So to summarize, while the list is not to everyone's individual and/or personal taste, there's at least one game on there that will satisfy most people.

About the crack - it's called fitbacrack, made by Microsoft, and it's four buckes per baggy. Any takers?

[EternalGamer]

Kameo.

On a side note...why doesn't Capcom bring back Powerstone?

Wow baps, you have a lot of faith in Kameo. I sure hope your right about it. I have to admit the demo didn't impress me that much (it felt too much like an arbitrarily glued together set of "obstalces" than a real living world), but the screen shots and some of the info I've come across since have me anticipating it more. I just hope it's not another Star Fox Adventures. That is the only game I an remember playing 4/5ths the way through and quit playing simply because it was too goddamn boring to continue... wait... there was one other... Kong64... a forboding pattern. :confused:

[RandomViolence]

Does anyone know when the reviews for the launch games are going to be out?

[EternalGamer]

Powerstone was not a launch title -- that sucker got pushed back and back. It was Soul Calibur, Sonic, Hydro Thunder, NFL2k, the incredibly bad Blue Stinger, and a few others. Powerstone came out much later and while fun, it was still rather limited.

What they need to do is come out with a 64-player sequel to Toy Commander...


I think I must have gotten confused since I imported a Dreamcast and I believe I had Powerstone (the import) by the time of the U.S. launch (or shortly thereafter). Toy Commander was awesome. I never did finish it though, it got just about impossible half way through. I think I still have a memory card with my saved game.. maybe it's time for a revisit. :)

[Balthasar]

I think this is a good strong lineup. In my opinion its the best i've known :cool:

I'd agree it's a better launch lineup than we are accustomed to, but I don't think seeing it relative to other launches necessarily makes it "great" in and of itself. I see very few titles there that I would ever care to play. Perhaps if Elder Scrolls IV were on there, I might feel different.

[EternalGamer]

Does anyone know when the reviews for the launch games are going to be out?


I was very annoyed that this months Xbox Magazine did not have a single review, which means it will not have any games reviewed by launch (unless they plan on releasing another issue w/i two weeks fo this one. Sometimes I don't know why I still subscribe to the magazine. About once or twice every year they have a decent demo I want to play. I at least thought they could help me out with some launch info for the 360. Why they didn't hold back the issue until they could deliever some decent content I have no idea. Useless.

There are a few reviews that have already been posted. Gamepro (if you consider that a viablegame magazine) published reviews of Tony Hawk and Gun int his month's issue. And I believe a couple of online sites have reviewed Call of Duty. I imagine there is some type of gag order on them outside of paid exclusives until right before the launch.

Dan

[Morratut]

Well for me there is...

PDZ.
Kameo.
PGR3.
NFS:MW.
Call of Duty 2.
Condemned.

For me i'm actually still wondering which ones to get at launch :confused:

I'll tell you what would help......REVIEWS!!!!

MICROSOFT WHY DON'T WE HAVE ANY REVIEWS YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PotatoNinja]

It's a good lineup compared to the average launch lineup. Remember the PS2's launch list? How many months was it before the PS2 actually had a great non-sports game? The Gamecube had Rogue Leader at launch and their big title, Smash Brothers, hit about a month later.

The Xbox had HALO and only HALO (unless you want to remember all the other miserable games released early in the system's life) for a very long time.

So, by that standard, we've got a few excellent ports, a few potentially excellent exclusive games, and a handful of not-amazing-but-fun-nonetheless titles.

Still, what matters for me isn't "Launch vs. PS2 and GC first-day lineup" but "Launch vs. PS2 and GC and Xbox and PC current lineup." $500 can net me ten to fifteen current gen titles, and I'm not seeing anything on that list which can justify the 360's hefty pricetag. I'll buy the system (presuming it doesn't bomb, which seems unlikely), but not until the system's price comes down.

[EternalGamer]

I'll tell you what would help......REVIEWS!!!!

MICROSOFT WHY DON'T WE HAVE ANY REVIEWS YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Much agreed. I expect the reviews to start popping up this weekend. It's annoying because you know many of them are probably already written. But it's no different than the last several launches in that they are being held up till the last.

[InstaPete]

I am really curious as to what people see in Condemned. The videos I have saw look pretty lack luster. An adventure style game mixed with a dark FPS where you melee with various objects a lot. Maybe it's just the sad fact that a game being published by Sega now throws subconscious warning signs in my mind. Sad, but true.

I haven't seen a whole lot of info about it, actually, BUT right now, all I need to know is that it was made by the same people that made F.E.A.R., which is one of the best FPSs I've played in a long long time.

So I'm willing to have some faith.

[EternalGamer]

The Xbox had HALO and only HALO (unless you want to remember all the other miserable games released early in the system's life) for a very long time.

.


It also had Munch! Why does everybody forget that game. It was one of the best games to ever be released for the Xbox and it came out the same day as the system.

DOA3 was also a launch title. Those three games combined made for not too bad of an original Xbox launch either, actually. Much better than the PS2 and even the Gamecube's, imho.

[Murmillo]

They have every genre covered...except RPG...losing Oblivion hurts them...more than they think.

Lets not forget about the 10-15 LiveArcade titles available at launch as well.
That and a Fighting game, namely Dead or Alive 4. December 1st. Not on launch day, but at least with in the 2 weeks of the launch window!

Damn it! I want my 720p digital jiggly titties!

[fitbabits]

I was very annoyed that this months Xbox Magazine did not have a single review, which means it will not have any games reviewed by launch (unless they plan on releasing another issue w/i two weeks fo this one. Sometimes I don't know why I still subscribe to the magazine. About once or twice every year they have a decent demo I want to play. I at least thought they could help me out with some launch info for the 360. Why they didn't hold back the issue until they could deliever some decent content I have no idea. Useless.

There are a few reviews that have already been posted. Gamepro (if you consider that a viablegame magazine) published reviews of Tony Hawk and Gun int his month's issue. And I believe a couple of online sites have reviewed Call of Duty. I imagine there is some type of gag order on them outside of paid exclusives until right before the launch.

Dan
Are you talking about the Mass Effect issue? From what I gather from reading that issue, the next one will feature reviews of the launch lineup and also a complete (and much needed) redesign. Subscribers should receive their issue in the mail some time this week - leaving plenty of time to think about what to buy.

[EternalGamer]

Are you talking about the Mass Effect issue? From what I gather from reading that issue, the next one will feature reviews of the launch lineup and also a complete (and much needed) redesign. Subscribers should receive their issue in the mail some time this week - leaving plenty of time to think about what to buy.


Well maybe it's my mailing service, not the magazine that's the problem then. I just recieved that issue four days ago!

Dan

[bapenguin]

Wow baps, you have a lot of faith in Kameo. I sure hope your right about it. I have to admit the demo didn't impress me that much (it felt too much like an arbitrarily glued together set of "obstalces" than a real living world), but the screen shots and some of the info I've come across since have me anticipating it more.

The demo is the tutorial level before you actually start the game.

On the reviews note, we should start seeing them tomorrow as the NDA gets lifted then.

[fitbabits]

Well maybe it's my mailing service, not the magazine that's the problem then. I just recieved that issue four days ago!

Dan
Holy crap, I would yell at whoever is responsible for delivery on your route, or maybe even OXM - I got that issue about four weeks ago! :eek:

[EternalGamer]

Things have not been right with my mail since Katrina, thougH really don't think they have that as viable excuse. I live about 70 miles inland from the coast and while things were pretty bad here for a while, everything else has been totally back to normal for months. The mail continues to lag, though. Definately worth a stop by the post office to register a civilized complaint.

Dan

[benson]

Wow, you guys sure are down on launch lineups in general. What do you expect? This is by far one of the better launches I've seen. The Xbox was ok, you were forced to get 3 games if you preordered at all (I got Halo, DoA3, and NFL Fever). All 3 of those games were good enough. Hard to complain about Halo, DoA looked incredible, and Fever was pretty arcadey, but still fun. There were a bunch of other launch games as well, and I sure didn't complain. The PS2 had an ok launch as well.

The big thing about launch is that they need to have several more games come out within the month following launch. They cannot sit still like Sony did with the PSP. That stagnates the system, and interest wanes. Basically there must be another round of games before Christmas (not many, just a couple of good ones).

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

If no reviews are out then how have I read two 360 reviews? Gun and American Wasteland are reviewed in the December 05 issues of Gamepro, both get 4.5/5.

[benson]

Oh yeah, and as for this launch, I'm going with PD0, NHL, CoD2, and maybe Tiger. I had reserved Madden, but I'm going to pass on that one. I wasn't all that excited about Tiger, but the last screenshots and movies are swaying me. I'm also trying to decide if I should get both PD0 and CoD2. I'm probably only going to play one or the other, though PD0 will probably be more online, and CoD2 would probably be more SP.

I'm still all over the place on what to get... I just hope I get the system on Tuesday...

[Stormwatcher]

NES, SNES and N64 had pretty great launches based on their respective Marios alone. And the DC had the legendary Soul Calibur. I do think that any of those is far superior to the X360. But i do agree that it is above average, and better than the PS2 and GCN.

But I still can't fathom why would anyone pick CoD2 on the X360. PC version is already out.

[Kelegacy]

Oh yeah, and as for this launch, I'm going with PD0, NHL, CoD2, and maybe Tiger. I had reserved Madden, but I'm going to pass on that one. I wasn't all that excited about Tiger, but the last screenshots and movies are swaying me. I'm also trying to decide if I should get both PD0 and CoD2. I'm probably only going to play one or the other, though PD0 will probably be more online, and CoD2 would probably be more SP.

I'm still all over the place on what to get... I just hope I get the system on Tuesday...

All those games you are getting, with the exception of PDZ, are available on other consoles. What I don't understand is why people would pay 400 bucks for a console and then buy the same games they can get elsewhere...for 400 bucks cheaper.

[Cubfan]

Yeah, definitely one of the stronger launches, probably second best, maybe first depending on how Kameo and Perfect Dark turn out. I don't have the dispensible income, so I'm waiting regardless.

And I remember Ready 2 Rumble, and renting a dreamcast after hearing how great it was and comparable to Mike Tyson. I was dissappointed :( That said, Dreamcast still had a great launch.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

NES, SNES and N64 had pretty great launches based on their respective Marios alone. And the DC had the legendary Soul Calibur. I do think that any of those is far superior to the X360. But i do agree that it is above average, and better than the PS2 and GCN.

But I still can't fathom why would anyone pick CoD2 on the X360. PC version is already out.

Youre forgetting these are console fans. Most dont have high end gaming rigs. I hope those that do however wouldnt do that...

Also if anyone missed it....

If no reviews are out then how have I read two 360 reviews? Gun and American Wasteland are reviewed in the December 05 issues of Gamepro, both get 4.5/5.

[Serapth]

I like racing games so this launch couldnt get much better ( forza would have been nice... ).

Im definatly picking up PGR3 ( suprised nobody else is excited about this game? ) and one other non racing game. Would be NHL2K6 but frankly it looks kinda lame. Maybe CoD2 if the multiplayer is cool ( im getting sick of DoD ), other then that, I dont know. There are a good half dozen titles on that list I would pick up which to me makes for a pretty impressive launch.

Then again, I thought the PS2 launch sucked pretty harsh ( what, 4 or 5 games, one of which was a lightshow ) about summoner being the only good looking game of the bunch. I bought a DC at launch, and until this launch I would have to say DC had the best launch lineup in recent memory... then again, Soul Calibre kicked that much ass...

[Serapth]

Also, something im kinda finding funny is people talking negativly about the XBox simply being equal to a highend PC is kinda funny to me. Ive been a PC gamer since the SNES came out and now im personally praying for the XBox to be asgood as a modern PC as im sick of the upgrade drive and bullshit elitism online with games like CS2 and DoD. The community controls ( minimum age requirement option ) of XBox live is worth the price of admission for me.

Plus, I tend to buy laptops, so staying cutting edge is bloody expensive. If the XBox is as pimping as a current 2000$ + PC, im delighted. Then I can say screw the PC for everything but RPGS and RTS, neither of which require an uber PC. This, in my mind, is a good thing.

[Heretic Machine]

Lol, I love how Perigon is the voice of everyone on this. Perigon knows best.

Ya, because I claimed everything as fact. Certainly wasn't my opinion, on a forum site about opinions. No sir, I love posting news articles about my opinions and passing them off as fact. I'm an anomally here on Evil Avatar.

[EternalGamer]

All those games you are getting, with the exception of PDZ, are available on other consoles. What I don't understand is why people would pay 400 bucks for a console and then buy the same games they can get elsewhere...for 400 bucks cheaper.

Well I imagine the guy either doesn't have a high end PC, or has a nice living room set up (both are true in my case) which make playing the games on console much more appealing. Not to mention that it is much better deal for people who aren't technophiles to throw down for a $400 console to play games that rival a $2,000 PC than to throw down for that PC and constantly upgrade.

If you are comparing these releases with their consoel brethern, however, I do have to say that we are talking about a different in quality level that essentially makes them different games. Not just in terms of graphics, but in terms of smooth framerates and playability.

For the guy that was wondering about the Gamepro reviews, I'm sure they signed an exclusivity deal to get those reviews early. THere are general NDA dates and then are people who pay to get the exclusive rights to publish reviews while others have to wait. It's more than a little shady, but it's part of the the way game journalism works.

Dan

[benson]

All those games you are getting, with the exception of PDZ, are available on other consoles. What I don't understand is why people would pay 400 bucks for a console and then buy the same games they can get elsewhere...for 400 bucks cheaper.
Um, because I didn't buy them on the other systems. I didn't buy CoD on PC because I knew I wanted it on 360 (and I like to play games with my surround sound and from my couch instead of on my PC in a fairly comfortable chair - sorry, but I spent a lot of money on my HDTV and my surround sound receiver and such so I like to use it). Tiger, as I said I'm back and forth, but I didn't buy it this year anyway. NHL I did buy, but it was only $20. I had also reserved Oblivion, but that was backed up. Oblivion was one of the main reasons I was getting a 360.

And even if the games are on other systems that I may have, they look a bit better on the 360. Not sure if you have seen Tiger on the 360, but it looks far better than the current Xbox and PC versions. Same goes for the NBA games for those of you getting those. The NBA games look incredible, like TV.

So I do see your point, but I have my reasons for buying them on the 360 regardless of their current availability.

[Wonka]

What about multiplayer Joust? Why isn't that on the list?

Please reasure me that there will be multiplayer Joust!

<pants excitedly>

[51|RandoM]

Pretty good lineup, with the notable exception of an RPG, and lacking a system seller game. Don't forget the backwards compatibility, you can count all of the supported xbox titles as launch titles too. :-)

That is why I think the ps2 launch was the best of all time, even though the ps2 titles themselves were thin on the ground, it played every ps1 game I loved.

[benson]

EternalGamer hit it pretty close. I have a decent PC, I just choose to use my nice home theater. And Serapth had a good point as well, Xbox Live is a nice service to use. I really only play RTS and MMORPG games on my PC now. I played HL2, but I think that's the last shooter I played on there. The current PC games I'm playing are Civ4 and DDO. And that'll probably be it for a while.

[Morratut]

But I still can't fathom why would anyone pick CoD2 on the X360. PC version is already out.

I'm picking up CoD2 on the 360. Reasons are that for ME...

I want to pick up and play in regards to online multiplayer.A easy experience.
I like FPS with my dual analogue sticks.
I will get a more cinematic experience with my 5.1, HDTV.
A lot of my friends will be playing online on Xbox360.

I've got a decent PC too which is a P4 660 3.6ghz,1GB Ram,Nvidia 6800, 20" LCD Dell monitor. I'm currently playing FEAR on it.

I just prefer my console gaming nowadays :)

[EternalGamer]

What about multiplayer Joust? Why isn't that on the list?

Please reasure me that there will be multiplayer Joust!

<pants excitedly>

My question is, since it's on the HD when you buy the system, can we system link Joust? Cause that would be awesome.

Dan

[UnderHero5]

I mean, I know it's only a demo, and I only played for 5 or 10 minutes... but Kameo seemed pretty bad to me. It didn't control well at all imo, and a platformer NEEDS tight controls.
Not to mention the premise is just kinda of silly to me... I want to play a game as a giant plant... if she turned into something cool I might have more interest in it... but a big fuzzy purple thing, a plant, and an armadilo type thing?... no thanks.

Seems to me that Rare hasn't made anything GOOD since the N64 days. The only reason Conker on Xbox was good is because it was mostly a remake, kinda hard to screw that up. Well, I can't say they haven't made anything good... I'll change that statement to "they haven't made anything that I, personally, think is worth playing since the N64 days".

Making a mediocre game pretty doesn't stop it from being mediocre. Of course, I this is just judging from a short demo... so I could be quite wrong. I just didn't like the controls and feel of the game at all.

CoD2 I have on PC.
Quake 4 I have on PC.
PD0 could end up being decent, but I am not a big fan of console FPS's these days.
I'm a big racing game fan but I have never liked the PGR series (not even Metroplis Street Racer on DC).
I've long since lost hope for the NFS series of games (which USED to be my favorite racing series, up until Underground.... ) and from what I've read/seen Most Wanted is just Underground with cops. No thanks.
Gun looks pretty average to me. I haven't tried it buy my friend did and he gave me his opinion on it (which usually isn't much different than my own) and he said what I was thinking, that it was pretty average. Definitely not worth $450 for an average game that I can already play on my Xbox or PC.
And the rest are sports games, which I do not like at all.
Except Condemned, that looked kind of cool, but I doubt it would be worth buying a console over.

Those are my reasons for not getting a 360 now (not that anyone asked) and my thoughts on the launch line-up. It seems like it will be that way for a while with the 360. Lots of multi-platform games that I can already play without spending $400.

I might pick one up one day, but as of right now I'm not interested in either the 360 or the PS3. I am, however, interested in the Revolution, as it has the potential to offer me something I can't find elsewhere. Plus it's rumored to be quite cheap in price, which sits VERY well with my wallet : )

[bean19]

This makes sense. . . I was excited about Oblivion and Dead or Alive 4, so of course they are late releases.

Still, I'll use gamefly for Gun, Call of Duty 2, and Quake 4. With Dragon Quest VIII coming out, I should have no shortage of games to play until these are released. A Gamespot movie revealed that all of the characters in Dragon Quest VIII do indeed turn into Super Sayens, and that has me pretty conflicted, but I'm a sucker for Final Fantasy. . . even a fucking demo.

[Serapth]

EternalGamer hit it pretty close. I have a decent PC, I just choose to use my nice home theater. And Serapth had a good point as well, Xbox Live is a nice service to use. I really only play RTS and MMORPG games on my PC now. I played HL2, but I think that's the last shooter I played on there. The current PC games I'm playing are Civ4 and DDO. And that'll probably be it for a while.

Im playing CiV4 aswell, and it runs like donkey arse on my laptop. This is an AM64 2.6 ghz 1gig ddr nVidia 128meg setup. Granted those specs aint great, especially given most mobile components are slower, but I didnt expect an RTS to run so slowly on a medium spec machine.

[Serapth]

I mean, I know it's only a demo, and I only played for 5 or 10 minutes... but Kameo seemed pretty bad to me. It didn't control well at all imo, and a platformer NEEDS tight controls.
Not to mention the premise is just kinda of silly to me... I want to play a game as a giant plant... if she turned into something cool I might have more interest in it... but a big fuzzy purple thing, a plant, and an armadilo type thing?... no thanks.

Seems to me that Rare hasn't made anything GOOD since the N64 days. The only reason Conker on Xbox was good is because it was mostly a remake, kinda hard to screw that up. Well, I can't say they haven't made anything good... I'll change that statement to "they haven't made anything that I, personally, think is worth playing since the N64 days".

Making a mediocre game pretty doesn't stop it from being mediocre. Of course, I this is just judging from a short demo... so I could be quite wrong. I just didn't like the controls and feel of the game at all.

CoD2 I have on PC.
Quake 4 I have on PC.
PD0 could end up being decent, but I am not a big fan of console FPS's these days.
I'm a big racing game fan but I have never liked the PGR series (not even Metroplis Street Racer on DC).
I've long since lost hope for the NFS series of games (which USED to be my favorite racing series, up until Underground.... ) and from what I've read/seen Most Wanted is just Underground with cops. No thanks.
Gun looks pretty average to me. I haven't tried it buy my friend did and he gave me his opinion on it (which usually isn't much different than my own) and he said what I was thinking, that it was pretty average. Definitely not worth $450 for an average game that I can already play on my Xbox or PC.
And the rest are sports games, which I do not like at all.
Except Condemned, that looked kind of cool, but I doubt it would be worth buying a console over.

Those are my reasons for not getting a 360 now (not that anyone asked) and my thoughts on the launch line-up. It seems like it will be that way for a while with the 360. Lots of multi-platform games that I can already play without spending $400.

I might pick one up one day, but as of right now I'm not interested in either the 360 or the PS3. I am, however, interested in the Revolution, as it has the potential to offer me something I can't find elsewhere. Plus it's rumored to be quite cheap in price, which sits VERY well with my wallet : )

Couldnt you have said that much faster by simply saying "Im not getting an XBox 360 because I prefer playing games on PC more then Consoles"? Im not really sure wtf else I should take from your post otherwise.

[novicius]

But I still can't fathom why would anyone pick CoD2 on the X360. PC version is already out. I still can't fathom why people ask these types of questions? :rolleyes:

Answer? Not everyone has either a gaming-worthy PC or a PC they game at.

Taking the 22nd off, have Kameo, PGR3 and DOA4 ordered; since DOA4 slipped, probably pick up CoD2. Midnight launch, sleep in, XBL all day Tuesday. ;)

On the unlikely chance that we do not receive our order, nix that plan and just go to work. :D

[PantherModern]

Couldnt you have said that much faster by simply saying "Im not getting an XBox 360 because I prefer playing games on PC more then Consoles"? Im not really sure wtf else I should take from your post otherwise.

It seemed to me he was making a point about the exclusivity of most of the launch games and the "must-have" titles that sell the system. You can't deny that most of these games can be had elsewhere in other formats, somewhat dimming the radiance of the launch. It is still one of the most comprehensive launch lists ever and covers a wide range of gaming tastes, but I too am not completely sold.

I love Monolith though, and if Condemned is as good as it looks, then I may have to pick one up.

Besides man, this is a forum. People can say what they like. You don't have to read it. No need to be snarky.

[Roc Ingersol]

When the best launch lineups of the past have boiled down to one great game, one good game and the obligatory nonexclusive sport titles, the bar isn't set all that high.

[bean19]

I mean, I know it's only a demo, and I only played for 5 or 10 minutes... but Kameo seemed pretty bad to me. It didn't control well at all imo, and a platformer NEEDS tight controls.

Agreed. The demo decided me on NOT buying this game.

CoD2 I have on PC.
Quake 4 I have on PC.
PD0 could end up being decent, but I am not a big fan of console FPS's these days.

CoD 2 and Quake 4 are both renters in my opinion, and thus I've waited for the X360 versions (to rent and not buy). Perfect Dark is one that might be good, but I haven't seen reviews of it's multiplayer. I don't have high hopes though. . . you can't jump, and evidently you move fairly slowly. That makes for very shallow multiplayer on it's surface. Maybe they've done something to make it interesting, but I haven't heard about it.

I'm a big racing game fan but I have never liked the PGR series (not even Metroplis Street Racer on DC).

I'm not a big racing fan, so I'm waiting for Burnout Revenge.

Gun looks pretty average to me. I haven't tried it buy my friend did and he gave me his opinion on it (which usually isn't much different than my own) and he said what I was thinking, that it was pretty average. Definitely not worth $450 for an average game that I can already play on my Xbox or PC.

Again, another renter. Still, this is an impressive number of good renters. A LOT of games aren't good enough even to get me to spend money on a rental copy. I have a feeling that all 4 of these renters I've mentioned will be fun games that I will play through to their ends. They just lack enough meat on their bones to get me to pay $50-$60. Games need to be longer than 10 hours of play for that. . . hopefully at least 20 hours of play. Most FPS games try to get this by creating tons of replayability in a quality multiplayer game, but we already know the two PC ports don't deliver.

And the rest are sports games, which I do not like at all.
Except Condemned, that looked kind of cool, but I doubt it would be worth buying a console over.

I like some sports games, but I'm not a nut by any means. This means that I won't spend $50-60 on any of them. At one point, I'd play Madden enough to make a purchase at launch necessary, but now I just don't care that much. I'll pick up a used copy this summer for $10 during the summer gaming drought.

Those are my reasons for not getting a 360 now (not that anyone asked) and my thoughts on the launch line-up. It seems like it will be that way for a while with the 360. Lots of multi-platform games that I can already play without spending $400.

I might pick one up one day, but as of right now I'm not interested in either the 360 or the PS3. I am, however, interested in the Revolution, as it has the potential to offer me something I can't find elsewhere. Plus it's rumored to be quite cheap in price, which sits VERY well with my wallet : )

My thinking on getting an X360 is that I want to play SOME of the games NOW, and I don't think a price drop is likely before the PS3 ships, and the price drop won't be for more than $100. But I'll pay that extra $100 to have a next-gen system for a year before the price drop.

Sure, there isn't a killer application out right now in your or my opinion, but I want Dead or Alive with next-gen graphics. I want Oblivion with incredibly sick next-gen graphics, and I want Burnout Revenge with next-gen graphics. Plus, there are all kinds of things in development further along the horizon for the system.

Anyway, I totally respect your choice of not purchasing one yet, and I can see why holding off makes sense. However, I'm just not that sensible. :)

[UnderHero5]

Couldnt you have said that much faster by simply saying "Im not getting an XBox 360 because I prefer playing games on PC more then Consoles"? Im not really sure wtf else I should take from your post otherwise.

No, because that wouldn't be true.

Am I not allowed to comment on the launch line-up because I'm not licking it's balls and praising it like it's the second cuming of our Lord?

I gave my reasons for all the games. I'm not asking you to take anything from my post. I'm not forcing my opinion on you, I just thought I would add my opinion to the discussion.
I never said everyone should feel the way I do. I gave my fucking opinion. What is it with you people?? Can't stand hearing someone else's thoughts? DON'T GO TO A MESSAGE BOARD.

As for me not liking consoles... I like playing console games, I just don't like playing ALL my games on a console. I like playing FPS's on my PC. And as someone else pointed out I didn't buy CoD on PC because I knew I wanted it on 360 (and I like to play games with my surround sound and from my couch instead of on my PC in a fairly comfortable chair - sorry, but I spent a lot of money on my HDTV and my surround sound receiver and such so I like to use it).

Well, he chose to spend a lot of money on his TV, surround sound, etc. I chose to spend a lot of money on my PC, surround sound, etc. I'd like to put to use what I spent so much of my money on, just as he does. Why is that a problem to you?

I like playing certain games on PC, and others on console. I'd say I own enough consoles to prove I like/play them. Not that I should have to list them and defend my own fucking opinion.

I'm sorry you don't like what I have to say. Deal with it.

Edit: After re-reading my post I realise... I'm apparently not in a very good mood today. I better go see if WalMart has MarioKart DS to cheer me up : )

[bean19]

I still can't fathom why people ask [the question of why people buy a game already released on PC for the X360]? :rolleyes:

Answer? Not everyone has either a gaming-worthy PC or a PC they game at.


Also worth mentioniong is that with the X360, you can rent those games instead of buying them. Beat CoD2 in 5 hours? No worries, just return it to the video store, or send it back to Gamefly. You'll be out a lot less money.

[fahrvergnugen]

People who are talking fondly about the N64 launch must not have been old enough to buy themselves one when they came out. The N64 launched on September 29, 1996. 2 titles were available for the first week, Mario 64 and Pilotwings 64. 3 titles followed the second week: Mortal Kombat Trilogy, Killer Instinct Gold, and Wave Race 64. Then nothing for two weeks until the release of Wayne Gretzkey Hockey, which nobody cared about. After that it was almost a full month until December 1st, when Cruisin' USA and Shadows of the Empire shipped, and that was it for 1996. The launch window had a total of 8 games.

Sure, I'll grant you that Mario 64 is one of the best games ever, but if you weren't into shitty 2d fighters, there wasn't much else to do there for a while. I played a ton of Wave Race just so I'd have something else to do when I got tired of Mario.

It took almost a full year until the 20th N64 title was released, in August, 1997.

The N64 also had $60 games, if you'll recall. But enough praise for Ceasar; let's get back on topic.

I'm probably going to throw down for Kong, Gotham 3, PD Zero, Kameo, and either AMPED 3 or THAW, although I'll have to try THAW first to decide. I really liked the THPS series, but strongly disliked the turn they took with the THUG games, so I'm wary.

[Beelzebud]

From all the shady, underhanded things Sony has been doing lately with the rootkits, and laughable EULA's. I hope MS demolishes them in this gen of consoles.

Someone needs to knock them off their high horse.

[TrackZero]

You know, I really wanted to get excited about Amped 3. Except when I went to watch the trailer, they've put together some kind of lame video with "cool" people talking on cell phones and hanging out, sitting around binding their gear and such. There's maybe 10 seconds of actual in game footage during the entire thing.

Guess, what, I want to see the fucking game MS, not this "we're targetting 15 year olds" bullshit.

[The Iron Weasel]

But I still can't fathom why would anyone pick CoD2 on the X360. PC version is already out.

In fairness you need a absolute beast to run that fucker at highest settings.

[Tennistoad]

hey any idea if the 360 comes with a thompson drive?

[Kelegacy]

Those are my reasons for not getting a 360 now (not that anyone asked) and my thoughts on the launch line-up. It seems like it will be that way for a while with the 360. Lots of multi-platform games that I can already play without spending $400.


Those are exactly my reasons, because I don't care about SLIGHT graphical upgrades. Later on, 360 games will look great, but these multiplatform games are not truly 360 games. They are just ports. And I'm not even talking about the PC versions of games. You can get most of these cross-platform titles on the regular Xbox and still get the exact same play out of them.

A higher resolution does not equal 400 bucks to me right now.

[bean19]

You know, I really wanted to get excited about Amped 3. Except when I went to watch the trailer, they've put together some kind of lame video with "cool" people talking on cell phones and hanging out, sitting around binding their gear and such. There's maybe 10 seconds of actual in game footage during the entire thing.

Guess, what, I want to see the fucking game MS, not this "we're targetting 15 year olds" bullshit.

Have you played the others? These were always a pale shadow of the SSX series in my opinion. I watched a developer interview and evidently the idea is that they want to be the "sim" game of the snowboarding sport.

I guess that's good for serious snowboarders, but personally I'm a gamer, not a snowboarder.

[Serapth]

It seemed to me he was making a point about the exclusivity of most of the launch games and the "must-have" titles that sell the system. You can't deny that most of these games can be had elsewhere in other formats, somewhat dimming the radiance of the launch. It is still one of the most comprehensive launch lists ever and covers a wide range of gaming tastes, but I too am not completely sold.

I love Monolith though, and if Condemned is as good as it looks, then I may have to pick one up.

Besides man, this is a forum. People can say what they like. You don't have to read it. No need to be snarky.


Wasnt snarky, was sarcasm. Ones as bad as the other though I guess.

That said, your going to see that with every launch with the posible exception of nintendo. This previous generation had WAY less exclusives then any previous generation, and with Sega's exit from the console business, its expected. MS and Sony just dont have the same first party focus that nintendo or sega did.

[RMan]

I think by itself it’s a very strong lineup, more so than I thought it’d be. However, it’s not featuring really impressive titles like most other launches, because previous systems offered an experience that was a good jump over their predecessors and often had new IPs at launch. I think if you were really excited about the 360 (IOW, you’ve already accepted that it’s just a slightly better looking Xbox and that’s all you should expect), then this lineup will be very satisfying, but if you were not seeing the worth of the system already then this lineup will not change your mind.

[Serapth]

No, because that wouldn't be true.

Am I not allowed to comment on the launch line-up because I'm not licking it's balls and praising it like it's the second cuming of our Lord?

I gave my reasons for all the games. I'm not asking you to take anything from my post. I'm not forcing my opinion on you, I just thought I would add my opinion to the discussion.
I never said everyone should feel the way I do. I gave my fucking opinion. What is it with you people?? Can't stand hearing someone else's thoughts? DON'T GO TO A MESSAGE BOARD.

As for me not liking consoles... I like playing console games, I just don't like playing ALL my games on a console. I like playing FPS's on my PC. And as someone else pointed out

Well, he chose to spend a lot of money on his TV, surround sound, etc. I chose to spend a lot of money on my PC, surround sound, etc. I'd like to put to use what I spent so much of my money on, just as he does. Why is that a problem to you?

I like playing certain games on PC, and others on console. I'd say I own enough consoles to prove I like/play them. Not that I should have to list them and defend my own fucking opinion.

I'm sorry you don't like what I have to say. Deal with it.

Edit: After re-reading my post I realise... I'm apparently not in a very good mood today. I better go see if WalMart has MarioKart DS to cheer me up : )

Wow, such hostility... I sense much anger in this one! :)

Im not saying your not intitled to your opinion. Just from my reading of your post, you basically described yourself as a PC gamer so pooh pooh all over the XBox 360's launch lineup because you prefer the PC. From what you said as your reasons for not liking the 360's launch, it sounded pretty much like you would never liked any consoles launch, at least by the reason you gave.

EDIT:
I never said everyone should feel the way I do. I gave my fucking opinion. What is it with you people?? Can't stand hearing someone else's thoughts? DON'T GO TO A MESSAGE BOARD.

I find this kinda funny. I give my opinion of your opinion and get this response. So, message boards are all about freedom of opinions, but we arent allowed to have opinions of those opinions? HAHA

[Serapth]

I think by itself it’s a very strong lineup, more so than I thought it’d be. However, it’s not featuring really impressive titles like most other launches, because previous systems offered an experience that was a good jump over their predecessors and often had new IPs at launch. I think if you were really excited about the 360 (IOW, you’ve already accepted that it’s just a slightly better looking Xbox and that’s all you should expect), then this lineup will be very satisfying, but if you were not seeing the worth of the system already then this lineup will not change your mind.

I honestly dont understand this mindset but I hear it all the time. If you look back to the first gen of titles of the PS2 against the late generation PS1 stuff, did you really see such a revolutionary leap? I have to say with the jump by PS3 and XBox2 to HD there is more of a graphical jump this time then last, even if simply because of the more then doubling of screen resolution.

The biggest jump I ever saw generationally was probrably the dreamcast. Im still not convinced the PS2 was even an improvement graphically on the DC. I still think Soul Calibre was among the best looking games of this generation and its from the system that was first to market.

[JudasGoat]

Agreed, although would it have hurt Microsoft more to rush out an unfinished product? I think it would have.

Anyone here taking the 22nd off of work?

I sure am. I need to purge these last vacation days left before the end of the year somehow. Spending holidays with my family sure as hell isn't going to be one of them. ;)

[Serapth]

I sure am. I need to purge these last vacation days left before the end of the year somehow. Spending holidays with my family sure as hell isn't going to be one of them. ;)

LOL, yep. Im in exactly the same boat. My company shuts down from chirstmas till new years anyways and I have 4 vacation days left. Bring on the 22nd and 3 more long weekends! :D

[Norse]

1UP.com has an interesting article on earlier console launches. (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=0&cId=3145578)

The X360 line-up is one of the better IMHO.

[RMan]

If you look back to the first gen of titles of the PS2 against the late generation PS1 stuff, did you really see such a revolutionary leap?
Revolutionary leap? No, definately not, but more of a step than Xbox to 360. We've been getting increasingly diminished returns on every new system, which is expected (this is of course disregarding new features like the Rev controller). Keep in mind, still wasn't close to enough to get me to buy a PS2 at launch (I bought an Xbox way before a PS2).

[Maskatron]

It's an ok lineup, and I'll admit it's stronger than any in recent memory. I'm still not compelled to jump in just yet. There's not one launch title game that I would buy (at full price at least), so I can hold off on buying for awhile. The thing that's most tempting to me at this point is the resolution upgrade the XBox games get.

[bean19]

Revolutionary leap? No, definately not, but more of a step than Xbox to 360. We've been getting increasingly diminished returns on every new system, which is expected (this is of course disregarding new features like the Rev controller). Keep in mind, still wasn't close to enough to get me to buy a PS2 at launch (I bought an Xbox way before a PS2).

Actually, the leap is bigger than ever before, and always tends to be bigger than ever before if you follow the pure numbers from generation to generation.

However, I know what you are saying. Sure, Oblivion has greenery that is incredibly realistic, where picking out single leaves is actually possible, but it isn't photo-realism, and that doesn't mean the game will be any more fun to play. Ooohing and aaahing at awesome graphics can be done on someone else's machine or at a store kiosk. What we want is quality gameplay, and graphics are just a small part of that.

Now if you are saying that the graphics don't look that much better period, well, on that I have to call bullshit. Either you aren't playing console games that much or you haven't checked out X360 games on a high definition television. They are easily as much better graphics as the PS2 graphics were from the PS-One. Not yet photo-realism, but they are beggining to approach it. . . especially in the games that use graphics as a main selling point, most notably the racers that are all about making all the car-loving mullet heads squirt one out in their pants.

Revolutionary? Well, I don't know. I think near photo-realism is revolutionary, but not all games are delivering this level of detail. I think the revolutionary thing about this gen is realizing that the technological limitations are going to become less important than the economical limitations. Developers are going to become all about creating good middleware to lower development costs and allow for faster production of game's graphical assets so that they can deliver near photo-realism in a cost-effective and less time-consuming way. That has historic value that is fairly revolutionary if you think about it.

[Zurik]

So unless I want a bunch of sports titles, all we see is a bunch of shooters? Only one of which you can't get on the pc. This is the only new system launch I've ever not cared about.

[Oddmaker]

I'm looking forward to the Xbox360 Demo disc which comes with it :P

[NonSoft]

Its kind of silly to say this is easily one of the strongest launch lineups ever when we haven't even had a chance to play the final version of most of these titles isn't it? It just seems to me as though it may be a bit early to start with the accolades. Honestly looking at the list I'm a little dissapointed. Almost half of all the titles are EA/2k sports games, and while I like playing sports games it would be nice to see some more original titles in the list. Then you have a section of games that have already been released for other consoles(or PC) that have seen average or less than stellar reviews including Quake 4, Tony Hawk's American Wasteland and GUN. While some of them didn't do badly they certainly aren't the type of games that are going to sell systems.

The only two games that standout to me are still Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero, and I'm going to hold off saying anything more about those two games until I can sit down with a final version.

[fitbabits]

Its kind of silly to say this is easily one of the strongest launch lineups ever when we haven't even had a chance to play the final version of most of these titles isn't it? It just seems to me as though it may be a bit early to start with the accolades. Honestly looking at the list I'm a little dissapointed. Almost half of all the titles are EA/2k sports games, and while I like playing sports games it would be nice to see some more original titles in the list. Then you have a section of games that have already been released for other consoles(or PC) that have seen average or less than stellar reviews including Quake 4, Tony Hawk's American Wasteland and GUN. While some of them didn't do badly they certainly aren't the type of games that are going to sell systems.

The only two games that standout to me are still Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero, and I'm going to hold off saying anything more about those two games until I can sit down with a final version.
Would it help if I added "on paper" to my statement?

[RMan]

Actually, the leap is bigger than ever before, and always tends to be bigger than ever before if you follow the pure numbers from generation to generation.
No, this is not true, although interpreting numbers is very subjective, the rate at which hardware is advancing is slowing, we do not have 2X faster hardware every year like we did 10 years ago. The only thing that's been advancing at a good rate is 3D graphics technology, and although some may consider that being all that matters, I certainly do not.
Now if you are saying that the graphics don't look that much better period, well, on that I have to call bullshit. Either you aren't playing console games that much or you haven't checked out X360 games on a high definition television.
Well, you're definitely correct in that I haven't checked out 360 games on high def television, and if you want to disregard my comments based on that, that's your call. I have seen plenty of games at different resolutions (I have a PC) and I do know full well the difference it makes. However, I can absolutely say that they don’t look much better, after all, “much better” is quite subjective and sharper graphics at this point of technology simply doesn’t have a great effect on me. For me, the PS1 did look real blocky, and jumping to the PS2 made a big visual difference, but going from the Xbox to the 360 is simply not a big jump for me (certainly better, but not worth a $400 price tag and dealing with another console).
Revolutionary? Well, I don't know. I think near photo-realism is revolutionary, but not all games are delivering this level of detail.
I think what most people would call this evolutionary, revolutionary implies a change, evolutionary means it’s improving.
Developers are going to become all about creating good middleware to lower development costs and allow for faster production of game's graphical assets so that they can deliver near photo-realism in a cost-effective and less time-consuming way. That has historic value that is fairly revolutionary if you think about it.
There is little difference between what is happening now, and what has always happened (from a technical standpoint). Now there is more concentration on middleware helping reduce the costs of engine development, but now that many are focusing so heavily on graphics fidelity that you have teams that are 80% of the work is art/level design that much of which is done in Max, Maya, Photoshop, or whatever other tools are being used. So, we now have some nice options to reduce the costs of developing engines, great, but now they’re just spending the money somewhere else and games are more expensive than ever. Not to mention that the middleware is not being spurred on by the next generation systems, we’d have, and have had that anyway. Next generation systems are spurring on the demand for better graphics, and in turn the increase in costs directly related to that, so from a development end next generation systems are bringing way more bad to the industry (because of the marketing method) then they’re bringing good. This, of course, doesn’t include the Revolution, which so far is all good :).

[Achilles]

I’ll get Condemned, CoD2, and Kameo. Then DOA4 whenever that comes out. I was going to wait on Condemned, but after playing FEAR I simply have faith that the game will be moody and disturbing.

I think this is the best launch lineup I’ve ever seen. Sure the SNES had Mario World, which was great, but what else launched with that system? This launch has nothing but big-name big-budget games and a lot of them. That's highly unusual.

[bean19]

Rman - Good reply. I think we are showing both sides of the coin, which is really appropriate with a subject that is so subjective. A few things:

No, this is not true, although interpreting numbers is very subjective, the rate at which hardware is advancing is slowing, we do not have 2X faster hardware every year like we did 10 years ago. The only thing that's been advancing at a good rate is 3D graphics technology, and although some may consider that being all that matters, I certainly do not.

I'm referring to output, which you pretty much know given your reply, but I wanted to make that clear. Sure, they are getting there with different methods beyond doulbing and tripling processing power. The end output results are probably always going to be proportionally larger with each next-gen product given the nature of the way games are coded. A misunderstanding caused by my too general statements.

I do agree that tech advancement is slowing, but they are finding ways around this in PC and console development. When was the last time that processor power mattered one third as much as your PC's video card? Processors are almost irrelevant now except in extreme examples. A person with a middle of the road processor and a smoking video card is going to play most games MUCH better than someone with a smoking processor and a middle of the road graphics card.

Although this is slowing too. We used to be able to spend $200 every other year on a new graphics card and have a jump of 20-40 FPS in any game on the market. Now, that same "jump" costs $500 for the top-end just released model that won't cost $200 for at least a year or two.

However, video cards have come a LONG way in five years, and the next-gen graphics show this clearly.

Well, you're definitely correct in that I haven't checked out 360 games on high def television, and if you want to disregard my comments based on that, that's your call. I have seen plenty of games at different resolutions (I have a PC) and I do know full well the difference it makes. However, I can absolutely say that they don’t look much better, after all, “much better” is quite subjective and sharper graphics at this point of technology simply doesn’t have a great effect on me. For me, the PS1 did look real blocky, and jumping to the PS2 made a big visual difference, but going from the Xbox to the 360 is simply not a big jump for me (certainly better, but not worth a $400 price tag and dealing with another console).

Well, the comparison between a really high res PC game on a smoking fast PC and a PS2 game is really dramatic. I think you have to compare the 360 to PS2 or Xbox games and not to PC to get a fair comparison.

I won't argue with you whether or not if it is worth $400, but I will say that this price is much less than the cost of the upgrades I'd need to play computer games at this high resolution and FPS (I can play anything still on my PC, but not at the texture quality and FPS rates of the Oblivion demo. I can just imagine my middle-of-the-road PC choking and dying trying to draw all those leaves on each tree and bush in the Oblivion trailer I saw at my Gamespot's kiosk). Other bonuses of an X360 over upgrading my PC are that there are at least a few X360 exclusive games, and I can rent middling titles instead of forking out $50 for them on the PC. Not to mention that PC games are hard to resell and diminish in value much more quickly than console games.

Don't get me wrong, I love PC gaming, and I keep my system as up-to-date as I can afford, but the current $200 cards would only give me about a jump of 10 FPS, so I can still use the $300 card I bought 2 years ago and save some money until the jump at my price point is worth my money.

I think what most people would call this evolutionary, revolutionary implies a change, evolutionary means it’s improving.

There is little difference between what is happening now, and what has always happened (from a technical standpoint). Now there is more concentration on middleware helping reduce the costs of engine development, but now that many are focusing so heavily on graphics fidelity that you have teams that are 80% of the work is art/level design that much of which is done in Max, Maya, Photoshop, or whatever other tools are being used. So, we now have some nice options to reduce the costs of developing engines, great, but now they’re just spending the money somewhere else and games are more expensive than ever. Not to mention that the middleware is not being spurred on by the next generation systems, we’d have, and have had that anyway. Next generation systems are spurring on the demand for better graphics, and in turn the increase in costs directly related to that, so from a development end next generation systems are bringing way more bad to the industry (because of the marketing method) then they’re bringing good. This, of course, doesn’t include the Revolution, which so far is all good :).

Oh, agreed in most of the particulars, and you make a good point.

My one point of contention is that I think that this does mark a big change in development practices for top-notch titles. With many console games, design was often limited to the technology. With X360 and PS3 games, I think that design will more often be limited by the budget than the technology. This marks a distinct difference in the way games are made. Revolutionary? Well, it's not as sexy as the Playstation's move to 3D, or the "multiplayer" revolution (which really was just the groundwork in many ways for multiplayer that I think will be much more prevalent in THIS generation), but it is nevertheless a pretty big change and we both agree that it will change the way games are designed, although I'm more optomistic than you.

I think that they'll budget high concept games to deliver fun gameplay and use this as a device to NOT deliver near photo-realistic graphics. Instead, we'll see artistic directors hedge against this with stylized art. . . like World of Warcraft's low poly-count but amazingly beautiful settings.

Meanwhile, the Revolution will ONLY be able to do these types of games because their technology (according to the speculation since we haven't heard specs for the system) CAN'T deliver near photo-realism. Not that I'm not a fan of the system. It will still have Zelda which will look and play amazingly well, and all the other top quality first party games that make Nintendo worth investing in. However, spinning their weaker hardware as a strength is kind of. . . well, Spinny McSpinmaster-ish.

[bapenguin]

GOod points all around...I think what we fail to remember, is that the 360's target audience isn't necessarily the PC Gaming crowd. Face it, we are spoiled brats when it comes to graphics, resoultion, quality, and others in PC Gaming. We see an "upgrade" every 6 montsh to a year in the capabilities of a PC, while in consoles, they only see the upgrade every 4 to 5 years.

If you look at it from a console only perspective, there are A LOT of people out there that are really excited about the 360. A few of my closest friends have simply never gamed on a PC, and when they see videos and screenshots of the 360 they are eager with anticipation. They say to me, "Can you believe how good that looks?"

Remember, for many, this is the first time they are seeing a game running at a resolution greater than 640x480.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Achilles, EA, good points.
I haven't felt this way about a launch since the Genesis. I'm not sure why, but this system makes me feel the same way I did when I was a kid. I can't wait for the thing to come out. What is amazing, I went into the launch with low expectations. But as recent screens leaked out and I was able to play the 360, my enthusiam was rejuvenated. I played CoD 2 and loved it...King Kong looked amazing, I had fun w/Kameo and Quake 4 for PC got a good review from a friend, so I am anticipating it as a 360 title.
I have preordered 11 games out of that lineup; COD2, Condemned, GUN, Kameo, Madden, NBA2K6, PD0:SE, King Kong, PGR3, Quake 4 and Ridge Racer 6. I have DOA4 preordered and I shifted my Oblivion preorder to cover one of my other games.
MS did a great job on marketing, because I genrally don't go this overboard on consoles. I'll admit they made some mistakes, but overall they did a pretty good job. The only way this could be better is if I had my hands on a couple of Zero Hour tickets. I know I spent a lot of money, but most of it was spread out since the console was announced back at E3...so it really wasn't that much.

I hope everyone who gets their machine is happy with it! The key for me is going to be finding ebnough time to enjoy all of those games.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Revolutionary leap? No, definately not, but more of a step than Xbox to 360. We've been getting increasingly diminished returns on every new system, which is expected (this is of course disregarding new features like the Rev controller). Keep in mind, still wasn't close to enough to get me to buy a PS2 at launch (I bought an Xbox way before a PS2).
Are you talking the difference between launch PS1 to launch PS2? Or is it late cycle PS1 to launch PS2...the differences and the selection on those two were very slight. If you can look at Kameo and compare it to a current gen Xbox game, the difference seems much greater...or compare CoD2 to CoD Big Red One. There are signifigant differences in textures, framerates and resolution...the animations are better and the AI is smarter. I've played Big Red One on my Xbox after playing CoD2 on the 360 (IGN Live)...there is a significant difference.
Try doing that and tell me if you still feel the same about the differences.

...or go here and watch the trailers and tell me you see no difference.
(warning: the screens are a little dark as this isn't direct feed)
http://www.xboxyde.com/news_2290_en.html

[RMan]

The end output results are probably always going to be proportionally larger with each next-gen product given the nature of the way games are coded. A misunderstanding caused by my too general statements.
Darn, I still have to disagree :(. As the technology gets better, the perceived quality increase will be less. For instance, we are at the point that with CD audio doubling the sampling rate would result in nearly no increase in perceived quality, but halfing it would be a significant decrease in quality (for the average listener, of course, but it still should get across what usually happens in terms of fidelity). Although I’m not arguing that graphics are to that point even with the next generation systems, they’re certainly approaching it, and as they get closer, doubling the speed of the system will result in less improvement each time you do it.
However, video cards have come a LONG way in five years, and the next-gen graphics show this clearly.
I don’t think this is very “clear” at all. One other important point is that you really have no idea how much of the graphical improvement of the next-generation system is being created because of the more powerful hardware, or the natural evolution of the development process and increased budgets. IOW, the only way to know how much the 360 is influences it’s best looking game (which I think for now is Gears of War) is if they threw the same weight into developing the content for the Xbox, and since it’s an MS published title, you will never know. This is clearly important if you really want to know how much better the system is than what we have, or when the best time for an upgrade is.

I’ll say this again just to be clear, I’m not anti-360. The system seems better than the Xbox in every way, but geesh, it’s just not “better enough” to warrant a new system. I mean, some may be happy with a new system every 3 years, or maybe every 2. Clearly this is too quick, but to me 4 years is clearly too quick, and I think most people even at MS would agree with me. The technology doesn’t warrant an upgrade, and the time since the last one certainly doesn’t.
I think you have to compare the 360 to PS2 or Xbox games and not to PC to get a fair comparison.
I’m comparing 360 to Xbox, so I think it’s getting a fair shake. I’m just saying I’ve seen resolution increases in PC games, and they’re nice, but not a big deal to me (at a certain resolution, that is). If anything, moving to a high res TV would be less impact than the same increase in PC resolution since standard TVs already blur pixels a bit, giving me that poor-man’s anti-aliasing.
I won't argue with you whether or not if it is worth $400, but I will say that this price is much less than the cost of the upgrades I'd need to play computer games at this high resolution and FPS…
Granted, but unlike a PC it’s a forced upgrade and a format change. On the PC, for instance, I can scale my game settings back or buy a new video card at my leisure, both choices are mine and do not invalidate my older games (I know the 360 has decent BW compatibility, but certainly not guaranteed). Not necessarily saying I like PC gaming more, just those are clear advantages.
With many console games, design was often limited to the technology.
Well, I’ve yet to see a 360 game where the core design/experience was not doable on a Xbox. This is not to say there won’t be any, just that there will be far less than any generational jump before this one, and for me it’s hardly worth considering. Like most other gamers, you can change my mind with one game, but I haven’t seen, nor have I thought of a compelling design that’s not currently doable.
Meanwhile, the Revolution will ONLY be able to do these types of games because their technology (according to the speculation since we haven't heard specs for the system) CAN'T deliver near photo-realism.
Uhh, oh, now you’ve done it. What on earth makes you think this? Unless you absolutely require HD resolution to call it photorealistic or anything other than stylized game. Look, to assume that because the Revolution costs less than the 360 to build that it’ll be significantly inferior is just insanely presumptuous. Let me break this down for you, you can routinely buy hardware that’s lower end, and pay 3 times less than hardware that’s not even twice as fast. IOW, for CPUs and GPUs the power increase isn’t nearly relative to the increase in money you put into the hardware, but for the sake of argument, let’s even say it was. Let’s say that because the Revolution costs half as much as the 360 that it’ll be half as fast (just for the sake of discussion). Now, since they’re not supporting HD resolution, then a common resolution of 640x480 will push 307K pixels, while at 960x720 (If that’s the right resolution, not sure) will be pushing 690K pixels, requiring well over twice the GPU power. Now, just considering graphic power, if they have half the power of the 360 then they will be losing NOTHING in terms of speed or power, only resolution. In the real world, this could easily give them a GPU that costs 1/3rd of the 360’s. You should also consider that their components will actually be newer, which might be a big positive as well.

Before RE4 people would argue that the Gamecube wasn’t capable of RE4’s graphics, the plain and simple truth is that great graphics are made MUCH MORE by artists, not technology, something MS knows well and it’s precisely why so much money is being spent on art content. The only way that the technology in the Revolution will be a significant negative is if the user wants it to be, but as hard as MS/Sony’s hype machines are working these days, that’s going to be a lot of the hardcore crowd.
However, spinning their weaker hardware as a strength is kind of. . . well, Spinny McSpinmaster-ish.
I still haven’t seen them do this, but I keep hearing people say stuff like that. I just get the message that their statistically weaker hardware is not a significant concern, and knowing what I do about how hardware and games work, I completely agree with them.

[Kelegacy]

Achilles, EA, good points.
I haven't felt this way about a launch since the Genesis. I'm not sure why, but this system makes me feel the same way I did when I was a kid. I can't wait for the thing to come out. What is amazing, I went into the launch with low expectations. But as recent screens leaked out and I was able to play the 360, my enthusiam was rejuvenated. I played CoD 2 and loved it...King Kong looked amazing, I had fun w/Kameo and Quake 4 for PC got a good review from a friend, so I am anticipating it as a 360 title.
I have preordered 11 games out of that lineup; COD2, Condemned, GUN, Kameo, Madden, NBA2K6, PD0:SE, King Kong, PGR3, Quake 4 and Ridge Racer 6. I have DOA4 preordered and I shifted my Oblivion preorder to cover one of my other games.
MS did a great job on marketing, because I genrally don't go this overboard on consoles. I'll admit they made some mistakes, but overall they did a pretty good job. The only way this could be better is if I had my hands on a couple of Zero Hour tickets. I know I spent a lot of money, but most of it was spread out since the console was announced back at E3...so it really wasn't that much.

I hope everyone who gets their machine is happy with it! The key for me is going to be finding ebnough time to enjoy all of those games.

Holy shit, have a few extra dollars to spend, or what? 11 games on top of a 400 dollar machine w/out extra peripherals you may buy? Jesus.

[RMan]

Are you talking the difference between launch PS1 to launch PS2? Or is it late cycle PS1 to launch PS2...
I would be comparing late cycle games, that's the only fair way to evaluate an upgrade.
the differences and the selection on those two were very slight.
I’d still say it was greater than Xbox to 360, but it is very subjective. As I said before, it still wasn’t enough to make me buy a PS2 at launch.
If you can look at Kameo and compare it to a current gen Xbox game
Yea, this is one I don’t get, maybe I’ve seen some bad stuff, but everything I’ve seen about Kameo including the demo seems like a pretty good Xbox game. There’s no way I’d say it looks nextgen, and something like Farcry Instincts seemed to smack it hard graphically.
or compare CoD2 to CoD Big Red One.
Yea, for me CoD2 is the only one I’ve seen that really looks better than an Xbox game, haven’t played CoD:BRO yet. Again, although I can clearly recognize the difference in visual quality, it’s something I was looking for, not nearly something that jumped out at me.
the animations are better and the AI is smarter.
Animations have virtually nothing to do with power and AI is mostly a matter of better development, but processing power does matter some. As I stated before, without the same teams putting the same effort into the same design we will not see the true difference.
Try doing that and tell me if you still feel the same about the differences. ..or go here and watch the trailers and tell me you see no difference.
I’m sure I’ll see a difference, but being able to identify an increase in quality and being compelled by an increase in quality are two VERY different things.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

I would be comparing late cycle games, that's the only fair way to evaluate an upgrade.

I’d still say it was greater than Xbox to 360, but it is very subjective. As I said before, it still wasn’t enough to make me buy a PS2 at launch.

Yea, this is one I don’t get, maybe I’ve seen some bad stuff, but everything I’ve seen about Kameo including the demo seems like a pretty good Xbox game. There’s no way I’d say it looks nextgen, and something like Farcry Instincts seemed to smack it hard graphically.

Yea, for me CoD2 is the only one I’ve seen that really looks better than an Xbox game, haven’t played CoD:BRO yet. Again, although I can clearly recognize the difference in visual quality, it’s something I was looking for, not nearly something that jumped out at me.

Animations have virtually nothing to do with power and AI is mostly a matter of better development, but processing power does matter some. As I stated before, without the same teams putting the same effort into the same design we will not see the true difference.

I’m sure I’ll see a difference, but being able to identify an increase in quality and being compelled by an increase in quality are two VERY different things.
Then what you are saying is that the whole thing is subjective for the most part? To that, I can agree with to an extent.

As for Kameo, have you watched/played it on a hi-def set? Which Xbox game are you comparing it to? I personally haven't played Far Cry except for the demo on the OXM and Kameo eats its lunch in the graphical department. Seeing the game Live and running off of 360 hardware (and playing it) only impressed me more...i just wished the game was faster. If you can't see any major differences between these two games, I can understand where you are coming from a lot better.



http://www.rareware.com/games/upcoming/kameo/shots/kameo_23.jpg

http://www.rewiredmind.com/gamemedia/farcryinstincts/s/farcryinstincts-5.jpg

[GrinR]

it may be a strong lineup; it isn't one that interests me though.

QFT .

[RMan]

As for Kameo, have you watched/played it on a hi-def set? Which Xbox game are you comparing it to?
Only seen videos/screens and played it at walmart, so no, haven't seen it on a HDTV. As I said before, though, increased resolution is not compelling to me. Just comparing it to Xbox games in general, just haven't seen one thing about the game that looks beyond the good Xbox games. I'm not trying to be offensive, but every time I see people talking about the game positively I think they're just super starved for a new game on a new system. I can understand people liking CoD2, it's not exciting to me, but definitely looks beyond Xbox and I can see some people getting excited over it, but Kameo is so not impressive technically (I don't mean it doesn't look fun) and I'm amazed anyone tries to hold it up as a display of next-gen power.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Only seen videos/screens and played it at walmart, so no, haven't seen it on a HDTV. As I said before, though, increased resolution is not compelling to me. Just comparing it to Xbox games in general, just haven't seen one thing about the game that looks beyond the good Xbox games. I'm not trying to be offensive, but every time I see people talking about the game positively I think they're just super starved for a new game on a new system. I can understand people liking CoD2, it's not exciting to me, but definitely looks beyond Xbox and I can see some people getting excited over it, but Kameo is so not impressive technically (I don't mean it doesn't look fun) and I'm amazed anyone tries to hold it up as a display of next-gen power.
You can honestly say this after looking at the screenshots I put up on page 11? Then I know we won't agree about 360 and its potential. They have done a superb job on some of their 1st gen titles.

Really, you can't see a difference there?

[Achilles]

Twigz, I totally agree with what you’re saying, but could you put some returns after each picture so they don’t stretch the text on the page out so much?

After seeing some games on the 360 it’s really hard to go back and play old Xbox games. They just look… old. Like really old. The Kameo shots above are good examples I think. Current Xbox games look flat and square, the textures have no detail and don’t react to lighting, and the scale is much smaller when put side by side with the 360 titles. It's a huge improvement.

I recently managed my way through Ellen’s campaign in KuF Heroes, but after seeing Ninety Nine Nights I just couldn’t keep playing it.

[Achilles]

Only seen videos/screens and played it at walmart, so no, haven't seen it on a HDTV. As I said before, though, increased resolution is not compelling to me.It's not just increased resolution, but the increase in detail, the huge increase in detail can only really be appreciated on a high-def display. Just like if you have an old monitor modern games will look blurry and low-detail no matter what the game actually looks like.

[Kelegacy]

Twigz, I totally agree with what you’re saying, but could you put some returns after each picture so they don’t stretch the text on the page out so much?

After seeing some games on the 360 it’s really hard to go back and play old Xbox games. They just look… old. Like really old. The Kameo shots above are good examples I think. Current Xbox games look flat and square, the textures have no detail and don’t react to lighting, and the scale is much smaller when put side by side with the 360 titles. It's a huge improvement.

I recently managed my way through Ellen’s campaign in KuF Heroes, but after seeing Ninety Nine Nights I just couldn’t keep playing it.

Care about graphics a bit much, do we?

[RMan]

You can honestly say this after looking at the screenshots I put up on page 11? Really, you can't see a difference there?
Not sure who's point you're trying to prove with the pics, but I can identify that the Kameo pics have sharper textures, Farcry exhibits better lighting and shadows though (especially visible in better pics or when the game’s running). Although these are the better shots I've seen of Kameo, you still have to REALLY want to see anything that’s impressive.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Well, check out the Xbox version (cancelled) compared to the 360. If you can't see the difference, well, it may be time to hang up the old controller/mouse.
http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/img.pl?image=/media/2002/september/kameo/6.jpg

Then throw in Co-Op over Live which in this case was stated wasn't possible with the old hardware. (But Halo 2 did it, so I'm not sure why Kameo couldn't have done it...I'm just going by the article I read when the game was planned for Xbox).

[RMan]

Well, check out the Xbox version (cancelled) compared to the 360.
Have you considered that the September 2002 date had anything to do with that? Not to mention, MS owns Rare and is FAR more interested in exclusive 360 titles than Xbox ones.
Then throw in Co-Op over Live which in this case was stated wasn't possible with the old hardware.
Yea, everything becomes impossible when your benefactor tells you not to do it. You're going to have a MUCH harder time convincing me the 360 makes the internet faster :).

[RMan]

It's not just increased resolution, but the increase in detail, the huge increase in detail can only really be appreciated on a high-def display.
Yes, I can do the same thing on my computer games by lowering the resolution and texture detail, I'm well aware of the effect it has.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Not sure who's point you're trying to prove with the pics, but I can identify that the Kameo pics have sharper textures, Farcry exhibits better lighting and shadows though (especially visible in better pics or when the game’s running). Although these are the better shots I've seen of Kameo, you still have to REALLY want to see anything that’s impressive.
You are insane. Better lighting?? Far Cry's lighting is a joke compared to Kameo's. These screenshots are the same when compared to the FarCry demo. Those were good current gen lighting. But in Kameo, the various sources of light reflect differently...
why am i even bothering. If you can't admit that 360 is a major step up...after the side by side 360 vs Xbox Kameo pic, then you are simply not willing to see the differences.
To each his own. But, just explain the light source and shadows in the FarCry pic? Nevermind...

[Kelegacy]

I can't take it anymore.

Thread unsubscribed.

[Murmillo]

Damn it twigs! fix the pictures!

[Achilles]

Care about graphics a bit much, do we?Of course! The gameplay is what it is, if it's bad I'll call the game on it. But graphics and art are a very important part of video games. After all the graphics make the game world and everything in it the way that it is. It's the equivalent of photography in a movie, sure you can make a movie with poor color and grainy film, but that only detracts from the movie. Graphics and art even matter to games like Disgaea, where if the art was bad it would hurt the game immensely.

Now how high the bar can go for a certain type of game depends on the type of game. We've pretty much reached the limit with 2d games since we're no longer constrained by things like pallets and layers. But 3d games still have a lot of room to grow in terms of looks. And the better the graphical abilities of a system the more freedom the artists get to detail their vision.

For the gameplay I don't like some things about Kameo, but that's not enough for me to not want to play it. Namely Kameo herself doesn’t really seem to do anything, just based on the demo. I’d rather play as her than some plant thing or a Yeti.

[Murmillo]

but in RMans defence, that 2nd Kameo's does have a lack of shadows. I count zero!

[bean19]

Twigs - I had to temporarily ignore you to read this thread. You killed it with the pic's post where you have them scroll across the screen. Added you back after I read it, of course, but I wish you wouldn't do that.

[Murmillo]

You know, if even not one single game interest you in the launch, you have to admit its still a strong launch day release. Not everything has to revolve around your petty little world to be "perfect." I'm pissed that Oblivion and Ghost have slipped. But that doesn't mean this isn't still a strong launch. I'm still trying to remember the 3 games that the PS2 teased me with on launch day.....

[RMan]

But in Kameo, the various sources of light reflect differently...
Possibly true, but not in a way that makes it look significantly better than other games. Then again, I haven't read up on the game's development so I don't know what features I should look for and be impressed by when I look at their shots.
But, just explain the light source and shadows in the FarCry pic?
Another poster mentioned the shadows, but as far as lighting, Farcry's lighting produces very natural results where the objects fit into the environment well, Kameo's does not. This may be stylistic choice, but who cares, it still looks like standard, point based lighting while Farcry's looks more like environment lighting (although I'm not certain it is).

[Murmillo]

*nod* it is hard to compare lighting when you are doing with two different artistic styles. Far Cry has a simi-HDR-bloom effect going full bore all the time while from what I seen limitedly of Kameo is more of a darker sharper lighting effect. It may be different in action and come the final build.
While I'll assume Kameo will have better lighting in the long run just because its using 4+ year old better tech then the other, just how well it is used it the game can make all the difference.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

So Murmillo didn't shit himself, I fixed the pic and just removed two of them...one shot of both of them is plenty. Murms, are you off your meds again? Is it so much effort for you to lift your fat, greasy, sausage-like finger and scroll across the sreen that you have to damn me?
Ask like you had a mother (the manner in which bean did is an example) and stop acting like a Napolean Dynamite wanna-be.

[bean19]

This image was resized from 901 KB where I found it to 250 MB by Photobucket. . . so keep in mind that it is way fuzzy compared to the actual screenshot. This is probably what it would like on a standard TV set rather than HDTV. You can find the original image at full resolution here (http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen-hires/36741/The-Elder-Scrolls-IV-Oblivion/).

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/bean22tx/hdoblivion.jpg

Notice all the individual leaves and blades of grass. Also, check out the shadows from the tree overhang, and the effect that the sunlight has as it peaks through a hole in the forest canopy ahead of you.

I'm not really looking forward to Kameo. The demo had some of the most lackluster graphics of all of the available demos on the kiosk in my opinion. Also, Call of Duty 2 was a little disappointing as the technology seemed to outdo the artwork but the style was super realistic. . . everything was so crisp that some of the errors stood out. The same effect occurs when seeing the game on my friend's insane PC, and it occurs a lot in PC games. They tend to fudge a bit on environments sometimes. Neat texture here, but then the same wall tile over and over for blank wall.

Anyway, my point is that while those games look really good, neither of them are really the graphics pinnacle of the system. I don't think Oblivion's will be either, but it comes a lot closer.

However, I think Oblivion sets up a bad comparison too. . . in regards to the gameplay being most important argument (which I agree with completely). In fact, unless they've clearly reinvented the series, Oblivion will be a footnote semi-launch title because while the game will be expansive, it's actual gameplay and story will be elusive for all but the most commited gamer. Hopefully they've made everything quite a bit more accessible.

[Zanzibar]

PDZ, Kameo, CoD2, Quake4, Oblivion. Maybe GUN.

I'm buying the multiplatform FPS's on the X360 console:
A. because I really liked the way Halo and Halo 2 did it, and
B. because I can't fuckin' afford a new/upgraded PC that will run them without dropping the resolution to mush, and
C. because I'm eventually gonna buy an X360 for Halo 3 anyways.

Somebody had a REALLY GOOD comment above - if you are buying an X360, you might very well NOT BE a PC gamer, but a console gamer. So why belittle them or denigrate the launch lineup because it caters to people who might not WANT to buy a new PC?