Xbox 360 Official Backwards Compatibility List

[Borys]

Microsoft has revealed the names of 213 Xbox titles that will be playable on Xbox' successor - Xbox 360.


Original Xbox Games Playable on Xbox 360

The folks at Xbox® are working hard to add more of your favorite games to this list, so check back often for the latest updates.

Note: A software emulator is required for each original Xbox game you play on your Xbox 360™ console. Please check back for more details as we approach the launch date.

Check all the Xbox 1 games playable on Xbox 360 here. (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm)

There also a quite long Q&A about backwards compatibility with Todd Holmdahl, the Corporate Vice President of the Xbox Product Group which you can find here (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilityqa.htm).

The most interesting part:


Xbox.com: Will there be any benefits to playing original Xbox games on my Xbox 360 console?

Todd: Absolutely. One of the great things about gaming on Xbox 360 is the satisfaction of knowing that every game will be playable in high definition. We are now proud to reveal that this extends to the original Xbox games as well. Every original Xbox game will be upscaled to 720p and 1080i, and will take advantage of Xbox 360’s anti-aliasing capabilities, delivering a picture that is clearer and crisper than anything available on Xbox.

From the BIG names only Splinter Cell is missing.

Editors Note: Only Halo and Halo 2 are playable out of the box. You will need to download the update either via your 360 or via your PC to play these titles. Or, if you have 0 internet access, you can send away for a disc.

Xbox.com: Are there any emulators already pre-loaded on the hard drive?

Todd: An early version of the emulator that supports Halo®: Combat Evolved and Halo® 2 offline is included on Xbox 360 Hard Drives right out of the box as a special bonus to devoted fans of the franchise. However, to play Halo 2 online, or to play any other titles on the launch list, the full emulator update is required.

[jacob.armitage]

wait a second, is this games that are playable @ Launch? or games that are being worked on for BC?

[bapenguin]

Playable at launch. Rumor has it there might be an update close after launch to add more titles. Also, there's a rumor there will be a CD option to send away for to get updated emulator profiles.

This is really good news though, I heard a rumor as late as 2 days ago that only 2 titles would be playable at launch and everyone would have to connect to Live or get a CD to play games.

[KamaItachi]

No Phantom Dust? No Panzer Dragoon? Tarts

Seems odd Conker isn't in there either, it being a first party game...
Also odd not to see the Star Wars Battlefront games up there either, they were big sellers... not sure how they stacked up to BMXXX, but...

Still, I'm sure everyone's gonna be annoyed that their favourite game isn't on that list, but this is hopefully the start, with many more to be supported.

[Murtaug]

Better be just for launch.. though why they bothered to get some of these working first, is kind of boggling. Does "Grooverider: Slot Car Thunder" have that big of a following that people need to play it on their 360s on launch day?

A quick scan of the list tells me only about a dozen titles from my collection of seventy plus Xbox titles works.. with half of those people titles I do not really see myself playing any time soon. Two more I own being the same game (Fable, Fable: TLC).. quite a shitty list.

Ah well, I guess the list is better then I expected; I expected to see. "Halo, Halo 2."

[Ludoc]

Barbie Horse Adventure

Huzzah! Guess I don't have to cancel that 360 preorder now.

[bapenguin]

BTW, I really hope they get the classics collections up and working like the Midway Arcade Treasures series.

[Borys]

Note how there's no PGR2 or Madden 06. Got to push those next-gen versions :)

[The Iron Weasel]

RIDDICK IS MISSING! But I'm sure they'll get alot of games in after launch.

[Savok]

A lot of stuff is missing, but quite a few things are there. I'm not happy, but it's not as stripped down as I expected.

[jacob.armitage]

wow, thats way more than expected, im pretty impressed.

[bapenguin]

Shit, I was right. Only Halo and Halo 2 out of the box.

You need to download the rest.

[Borys]

Saves won't work:

Content will not be transferable from Xbox to Xbox 360, including saved data and downloadable content.

[bapenguin]

Saves won't work:

The nice thing is, it sounds like all premium content is free on the 360 that was on the XBox.

[InstaPete]

I think the reason for a lot of the "unexpected" titles on there is from what Allard et al were talking about a couple months ago where they get games for "free", ie, get Game A working, and then it also works with Games B, C, D.

edit: there's also some real interesting stuff in that interview that I'm not sure was explicitly laid out before. I really like the idea that they're releasing the emulators on xbox.com to be burned to a CD rather than making the CDs for sale only.

[Paranoia]

Ninja Gaiden Black is there, so I'm happy.

[Morrolan]

Gah! No Psychonauts!

[ChaosDent]

BIG names? What about Burnout, Soul Caliber, Madden, Mech Assault? I can't imagine a modest Xbox library without at least a few holes. My own, had I kept it, would have had more blanks than hits in it. I'm sure everyone was clamoring to play Commandos 2, Jurassic Park and Catwoman on their 360s.

Of course the other big story buried deep within the Q&A is that there is no procedure and no plans to implement a procedure for moving saved content including save files, patches and paid downloadable content from the Xbox to the 360. That's a bigger deal-breaker than the patchy game list.

[The Iron Weasel]

HEY! Commandos 2 was great! Well, it was on PC.

[Savok]

Content will not be transferable from Xbox to Xbox 360, including saved data and downloadable content.
Ok, MS can get fucked now.

[Dracula-X]

This turned out much better than I expected, but, still not out of the box and still some significant titles missing and others I'm just scratching my head at, catwoman, yourself fitness, etc, I mean wtf...

[jacob.armitage]

Ok, MS can get fucked now.


why? just gives us reason to play our classic games again if you ask me, and downloadble content is account based, so just log in, and download all that shit again for free, where is the problem here?

[sTubbs]

BIG names? What about Burnout, Soul Caliber, Madden, Mech Assault? I can't imagine a modest Xbox library without at least a few holes. My own, had I kept it, would have had more blanks than hits in it. I'm sure everyone was clamoring to play Commandos 2, Jurassic Park and Catwoman on their 360s.


In the linked interview it is explained that the titles that seem out of place on the list (such as Barbie's Horse Adventures) are there because they are technologically similar to other games. In other words, emulating big budget blockbuster game A automatically enabled the emulation of shitty budget titles B, C and D. Specific emulators are not being made for those games. It sounds to me like MS is just throwing every XBOX game into the 360 to see what kind of luck they have.

[sebastard]

Any Unreal-based title is missing

[total]

Once the modders get hold of these things every decent Xbox game will be emulated. I give it 3 months or less.

[agentgray]

I'll believe the feasability of this when I see it, and also see it's not buggy.

<pirate>

I love me xbux, but arrggghhh....emaulation?

</pirate>

[Bones4lyf]

BMXXX in the list!? ;____;

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Wow, we have 213 games available at launch and you still get complaints. "MS can get fucked now!"...gimme a break. If it is that big of a deal, keep the damn Xbox. Plus, you can't play a few of your favorite titles on day 1...you will live. Plus, it did seem to indicate that more are on the way. Yes, we lose the saved game feature...which will suck for Morrowind. But, the games will look better on the 360 and at least you can play them on it.

As much as I call MS on poor decisions, I'm happy with the job they did. As for certain games not working, I'm sure they didn't go and code for each one. They made an emulator that made x work, and it also ran y and z. Give them time to make the other games work.

[EternalGamer]

Very cool that all games run in 720p. I just hope that list continues to grow, and I have a feeling it will. It would be a big marketing boast for MS to one day get to the point where they can claim 100% compatibility.

There are some oddities though. Why the 1st Prince of Persia but not the 2nd? And what's up with the 2D stuff like Megaman and Sonic MegaCollection, how can they actually make those high res?

The only real bummer for me is that none of the great Sega Stuff is on that list: No JSRF, no Panzer Dragoon Orta, no Gun Valkyrie, not even Otogi 1 and 2.


Dan

[inmostlight]

There are some oddities though. Why the 1st Prince of Persia but not the 2nd? And what's up with the 2D stuff like Megaman and Sonic MegaCollection, how can they actually make those high res?


You can upscale the sprites. Done correctly, it can actually look pretty good; I have a DVD player that upscales movies to 720p/1080i. Add in a little bit of image processing dickety-doo, and it looks great. Sure, not as good as actual high-def content, but better than watching it at the original 480p.

And this list sounds great to me, although really, if I'm playing anything on the day I buy a system it'd be one of the new 360 games. One thing the Q&A didn't cover that I'm curious about -- does all the other 360 functionality work during emulated games? Can I still pull up the dashboard and see my friends list on games that weren't originally Live-enabled? I'm not expecting that, but it'd be pretty cool if it supported that as well...

[Savok]

If you can't use your save games with hundreds of hours of unlocked content, then what's the point?

[ChaosDent]

Wow, we have 213 games available at launch and you still get complaints. "MS can get fucked now!"...gimme a break. If it is that big of a deal, keep the damn Xbox. Plus, you can't play a few of your favorite titles on day 1...you will live. Plus, it did seem to indicate that more are on the way. Yes, we lose the saved game feature...which will suck for Morrowind. But, the games will look better on the 360 and at least you can play them on it.

As much as I call MS on poor decisions, I'm happy with the job they did. As for certain games not working, I'm sure they didn't go and code for each one. They made an emulator that made x work, and it also ran y and z. Give them time to make the other games work.

This is not, and will never be a solution for people who currently own an Xbox. To tell them to just "keep their damn Xbox" is a kludge solution that spits acid in the face of the spirit of backwards compatibility. When you bought Windows XP Microsoft didn't tell you to keep your damn Windows 98 PC hooked up and running. They had a short list of programs that don't work (as opposed to a short list of programs that do!) and they provided a files and settings transfer wizard to ease the process for even the most computer illiterate of users.

This is a joke, no matter how many games they eventually support.

[Knite]

I'm actually pretty thrilled that if you play Halo2 on the Xbox over live, it's compatible with someone playing Halo2 on the 360 over live. That's no small feat IMO. I still dream of the day you can play Xbox/PS/PC cross platform, but that's not yet. lol

Now... about Mech Assault 1+2... ;-)

[Ozymandias]

Man, I'm just amazed that anyone can be annoyed at this. The technical feat of writing an emulator for what's basically a full PC, but fast enough to run Xbox games, is stunning. Check out Virtual PC for the Mac, for example - pretty slick, but barely capable of running Office, much less Quake.

Over 200 titles at launch, with more to come? Kudos to MS for delivering. Yeah, Barbie's Horse Adventure and other oddball titles aren't the ones I'd want to see, but like it's been said - they're the freebies. $20 says we'll see the Tom Clancy/Splinter Cell titles supported within a few months.

The one bummer I'll grant to some of you grousers is the lack of save transfer. Sucks to have to lose all that effort. But who knows, maybe the vocal minority (majority? honestly don't know) might get them to enable that as well.

[mister_slim]

They don't seem to be bothering with any of the early Sega gems. And no Dead or Alive Ultimate?
This is not, and will never be a solution for people who currently own an Xbox. To tell them to just "keep their damn Xbox" is a kludge solution that spits acid in the face of the spirit of backwards compatibility.
Especially considering a fair number of Xboxes, including mine, no longer work.

[KamaItachi]

They don't seem to be bothering with any of the early Sega gems. And no Dead or Alive Ultimate?



With the online enabled D.O.A.4 as a launch title I think it's pretty easy to see what that one slipped by.

[mister_slim]

With the online enabled D.O.A.4 as a launch title I think it's pretty easy to see what that one slipped by.
Didn't DOA4 slip into mid or late December? And I thought the point of Ultimate was to have all DOAs on Xbox (and, by extension, 360)?

[tvgm2]

While it's cool that they're gonna release patches later, it's inexcusable for them not to have a system already in place for save transfers. How do they know the game will work 100% if they don't have 100-hour saves to test. You could easily have a program in the box itself to look on the network for Xboxes and transfer the files. The PS2 had a list of games that didn't work, but they all blew and you could you use your old memory cards.

Another thing is, where do these emulators go? If on a memory card, how much space will they take up? If on the $400 console, will they go on the hard drive? There's still too many holes they need to fill.

[Wonka]

I think that this is great news. I was hoping that they would be able to do FSAA and HD for their emulated titles. Very nice.

As for the lack of save transfers, I agree that it's a major bummer, but I don't expect that MS will change their minds on this one. I think this is being done for security purposes. I think that MS wants to tightly control the ways that data can flow into the 360. A way to easily move data from a hacked Xbox into a 360 would be all too tempting an avenue for hackers.

[Savok]

As for the lack of save transfers, I agree that it's a major bummer, but I don't expect that MS will change their minds on this one. I think this is being done for security purposes. I think that MS wants to tightly control the ways that data can flow into the 360. A way to easily move data from a hacked Xbox into a 360 would be all too tempting an avenue for hackers.
Give them a week, then it'll only be the average consumer who suffers, again.

[Steve_Erhardt]

No MechAssault? WTF? If MS is gonna bone the PC for a good mech sim, they could at least make sure MechAssault is on that list. Bitches.

And No Godzilla? Damn.

[Chalex]

I still dream of the day you can play Xbox/PS/PC cross platform, but that's not yet. lol
You Mean like Final Fantasy XI supports PC/PS2/360 cross platform? Phantasy Star Universe will support PS2/PC cross platform. Hell even Quake 3 and 4x4 Evolution were Dreamcast/PC cross platform play.

[EternalGamer]

For most games, I don't see how the lack of the save transfer will be that big of a problem. If you are going back to revisit a game you already finished with, wouldn't you start again anyway? The real advantage of the backwards compatibility is to give you a chance to play games you never got around to playing/purchasing and now you can do that in HD as an added bonus. And this advantage is not at all hampered by the lack of save compatibility.

The one situition in which it sucks is if you are half way through a game and don't want to start over. But chances are, if you didn't finish it and have had it sitting around, let's be honest, you probably weren't ever going to actually get around to playing it again anyway.

Dan

[thecrazyd]

The only XBox game I own doesn't work on it. I won a free copy of Psychonaughts, and I guess it may never be played...

[EternalGamer]

I'm not sure how much you want to take the comments at face value, but they did say they were looking for feedback comments about what games people would like to see supported on their website.

Dan

[KamaItachi]

Didn't DOA4 slip into mid or late December? And I thought the point of Ultimate was to have all DOAs on Xbox (and, by extension, 360)?

I didn't hear it was pushed back, but even a few weeks still puts it firmly in the launch window. It's a release title for the Jp release so it shouldn't be too far behind. At most 2-3 weeks.

Ultimate may well be featured later, but as I see it, one of the hype points for D.O.A. 4 has been the online and lobby functions. So if you don't have access to any online DOA boob-flappery except for 4 many might be inclined to pick that up.

[jeffool]

So, no Psychonauts, Mech Assault (1 or 2, and 1 was the most played game on XBox Live before Halo 2?), Panzer Dragoon Orta, Jet Set Radio Future, Spider-Man (1 or 2), or Full Spectrum Warrior.

On the plus side, I do get:
Tetris Worlds, Tony Hawk 4, Fable, Red Dead Revolver, and of course the Halos.


Yeah. I'm thinking I'm not going to worry about rushing out to pick one up. Maybe wait and see how the Playstation looks this generation. (I'm sold on the Revolution, and want to get one other system.)

[iamhurtin]

this is acutally making me want an xbox,be nice to paly some console games with good gfx and with aa on also be nice to finnaly have a good gamepad to play xbox games with,i dont know how u guys have surived with ur xboxes 2mins with 1 and i want to throw it at the wall
the best game of all is on the list
pro evolution soccer 5, my biggest problem with the x360 is , i would rather jsut spend that money on updating my computer
but i guess thats just me

[TrackZero]

Dang. No Steel Battalion love. Though I suppose they'd need an adaptor made for the controller port. *sigh*

[The Iron Weasel]

this is acutally making me want an xbox,be nice to paly some console games with good gfx and with aa on also be nice to finnaly have a good gamepad to play xbox games with,i dont know how u guys have surived with ur xboxes 2mins with 1 and i want to throw it at the wall
the best game of all is on the list
pro evolution soccer 5, my biggest problem with the x360 is , i would rather jsut spend that money on updating my computer
but i guess thats just me

I didn't really understand that middle part but...yeah....

[Bushi]

Wha? No Mech Assualt, surprising it was a grade A launch title for xbox. No Soul Caliber 2, that is just a bumber. Pretty good, if limited, list otherwise though.

[Heretic Machine]

No DoA: U or DoA: XVB... That's annoying.

[motor]

I wish there was more stuff about games being release this x-mas. I, for example, want to buy battlefront 2, but I'm ditching my x-box so do I buy it? No, unfortunately, I wait to see if it pops up on the list. Sorry lucasarts.

[Heretic Machine]

Ok, looking over that list, here are the games I own that are compatible:

Halo
Halo 2
Ninja Gaiden
KOTOR 1
KOTOR 2
BTVS: Chaos Bleeds (the crappy BTVS game. Of course they forget the good one.)

That's like a quarter of my XBOX collection. I feel I'm getting screwed over with a lot of my favorite games. Now, I'm keeping my XBOX, never intended to get rid of it. But it would be nice to leave it at home instead of having to keep both the 360 and the XBOX in my dorm room.

[nonchalance]

For most games, I don't see how the lack of the save transfer will be that big of a problem. If you are going back to revisit a game you already finished with, wouldn't you start again anyway?

Evidently you don't play many sports games or racing games - or those with significant amounts of unlockable content.

If you pick up and play X game occasionally, unlocked the new cars and racers, unlocked the cool tracks for multiplayer, all of that, and that takes a hundred hours or so, losing your save sucks donkeys.

[Heretic Machine]

For most games, I don't see how the lack of the save transfer will be that big of a problem. If you are going back to revisit a game you already finished with, wouldn't you start again anyway?

Try telling that to someone who's worked hard on either of the newer DOA games.

[Pumped'Up]

Lack luster list of games, but GTA:SA will be sweet on the 360.

[Phhhh]

I'm just glad Yourself! Fitness is on there... I mean now I can "play" that at 720p!

[eatme]

Gah! No Psychonauts!

:(

I wonder what the criteria is-- do the developers have to do extra for it?

Not like all of the games on the list were huge sellers, though. Maybe some were just easier to emulate because of whatever XBox functionality they used? And, of course, some were hand-tweaked (Halo).

[jspeak32]

I'm surprised Buffy: Chaos Bleeds is on the list. While a decent game, the first one in the series was better (and missing from the list). I already sold both my copies so it doesn't matter either way to me I guess.

[jspeak32]

This is not, and will never be a solution for people who currently own an Xbox. To tell them to just "keep their damn Xbox" is a kludge solution that spits acid in the face of the spirit of backwards compatibility. When you bought Windows XP Microsoft didn't tell you to keep your damn Windows 98 PC hooked up and running. They had a short list of programs that don't work (as opposed to a short list of programs that do!) and they provided a files and settings transfer wizard to ease the process for even the most computer illiterate of users.

This is a joke, no matter how many games they eventually support.

Good thing I don't care that much then. Alot of the titles I own ARE on the list, however I haven't played them in months. My copy of Fable is still in it's original plastic-wrap. So I doubt I'll suddenly want to play them on launch day. I guess I don't realize how many fanatics there are out there that demand to play their entire library on day one.
This list is just a start, and I think it's very impressive.

[Dylan]

Sweet - Deathrow!

[Wonka]

I think it's an impressive *start*. I will be quite dissapointed if they don't "keep at it" though. I especially wish that more of the popular LIVE! games were emulated already. Those are the games that I find myself still playing years later...

I am willing to be impressed for now though since in the emulation they are also upgrading the graphics for me. As long as they keep doing this and making more emulators I can be a little patient.

[Major Scud]

ok color me impressed for the most part. I just hope mechassault 1+2, conker live and reloaded, and jet set radio future get added soon.

[Paltry]

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7003

eh?

[51|RandoM]

They may not be actually handpicking the titles to emulate, you know. They probably have a few emulation modes, and then they try the games to see which work on one or more of the modes. Voila, there is your list, and a valid reason for why there are both notable absenses and notable ummm, lackluster titles.

Still looks like a pretty good job to me, give something for the first wave to play, at least.

[ElectricMonk]

what? no GUNVALKYRIE?

at least they have ninja gaiden...

[Norse]

Did people complain this much when SNES games were unplayable on N64 or N64 games on the GameCube? MS should be praised for doing an effort. They could easily have ignored the compatability thing. But people never stops complaining...

[Akeldama]

There seems to be a lot of bitching here by people who clearly haven't read the interview linked to in the OP. In the interview it says MS is working to make the whole Xbox library backwards compatible, it just takes time, and the list will be contantly updating. So please quite the tiresome "we've been screwed over" whining and actually do some research.

[Morratut]

Well i'm a happy bunny :D

Ninja Gaiden and Halo 1 & 2 are there. I would have liked Burnout 2 and Capcom vs SNK EO2 to be there but i assume they will keep going with the emulators. Actually i can get my SF kicks on emulators on my PC.

Ninja Gaiden Black in 720p here i come. I'm just so fucking happy right now!!!!

I've already got a buyer for my Xbox1 so thats another game for the 360.

[Opty]

Did people complain this much when SNES games were unplayable on N64 or N64 games on the GameCube? MS should be praised for doing an effort. They could easily have ignored the compatability thing. But people never stops complaining...

Yes, people did complain. People complained when NES games weren't playable on the SNES, too.

[Hizawky]

I love how the game that broke my XBOX (Advent Rising) cant be played on the XBOX360.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

The 360 suxxxorz!!!!!@%!!!!

[Morratut]

I'm very impressed with MS. Xbox 1 and 2 wasn't compatible at all from a hardware point of view. To get these games to work through emulation is a big thing + 720p and AA is a extra bonus.Good going MS. Keep up the good work :) its things like this which has made into a MS convert :)

[bapenguin]

The reason the save games arent' transferable is due to security issues. All of the exploits that came from the XBox to allow modding without a mod chip came from a saved game file. By still allowing this, they essentially open up the 360 to the same exploits.

[Dirty Harry]

maybe through the xbox260 xbox1 pc emulation will come around, we pirates welcome new playable emulators anyday.

[Kelegacy]

The reason the save games arent' transferable is due to security issues. All of the exploits that came from the XBox to allow modding without a mod chip came from a saved game file. By still allowing this, they essentially open up the 360 to the same exploits.
I wonder how long it will be until they find some new exploits or creative ways to get around security. The original Xbox was almost TOO easy to crack. The one that'll be a bitch is the PS3; the lack of affordable BR drives alone will curb piracy for a little while, anyway. The GC was the piracy winner this round, but that's because of those Oreo-sized discs.

[EternalGamer]

The reason the save games arent' transferable is due to security issues. All of the exploits that came from the XBox to allow modding without a mod chip came from a saved game file. By still allowing this, they essentially open up the 360 to the same exploits.

Good point baps. Though if that were the only reason, doesn't it seem like they could just find a way to CONVERT the old save system into the new one? I'm not sure how that would still leave the security hole. Also wasn't it a hole in the OS that allowed for the expliot. I thought later Xboxes couldn't use the saved games trick to load a new OS.

Nonchalance, you do have a point about the sports and racing titles and you are right that I generally don't play that type of game. However, I would also think that those are generally the first type of games to become outdated anyway. Why would you want to play the old Madden or a worse looking racing game when the new version essentially is the same game with better graphics?

Dan

[Chiggs]

Any Unreal-based title is missing


Not true. Pariah is on there.

[WileE.Coyte]

I'm hoping that Beyond Good and Evil will someday make the cut. I'ts one of my keepers. I also hope that if Soul Calibur 2 comes they get rid of the 720p 4:3 mode and make it a full 720p 16:9. I also wonder if the 360 takes off, will Microsoft abandon emulating XBOX games?

[ChypeFlux]

Xbox.com: What if I put in a game that isn't backward compatible?
Todd: I want to clarify—if a game isn’t on the list at Xbox.com/Games, it won’t run on your Xbox 360 console.A bit curious, eh? If it were true emulation, don't you think that as they improve the software, more and more games would start to automatically work? With things like MAME, the emulation is trickier because it's emulating a crapload of different hardwares. The Xbox is a single piece of hardware, and a known piece of hardware considering *** engineered it themselves.

So....why is it so hard to write a single emulator? (loaded question...see below ;) )
Xbox.com: You mentioned that I can download the emulators from Xbox.com and burn them to a CD. How big are they?
Todd: They're small and take up less than five megabytes.So, they take up to five meg each or they take five meg total? I'm going to guess about 5 meg or less for each game you want to run. Curious that that's the typical range size of most game executables...

So, this is all in line with what I've already heard. There is no single software emulator...the "emulation files" are per game and actually are a recompiled executable made by ***.

In short, you have to download a newly compiled executable for each game. There is no chance a random game will ever just work until *** provides a translated executable.

I'm going to guess they have to go this route because pure software emulators have to be able to run many more instructions per instruction in the original software...which is slow.

If I'm wrong, we'll find out soon enough.

[mkelehan]

Anyone put together an incompatibility list?

[bapenguin]

A bit curious, eh? If it were true emulation, don't you think that as they improve the software, more and more games would start to automatically work? With things like MAME, the emulation is trickier because it's emulating a crapload of different hardwares. The Xbox is a single piece of hardware, and a known piece of hardware considering *** engineered it themselves.

So....why is it so hard to write a single emulator? (loaded question...see below ;) )
So, they take up to five meg each or they take five meg total? I'm going to guess about 5 meg or less for each game you want to run. Curious that that's the typical range size of most game executables...

So, this is all in line with what I've already heard. There is no single software emulator...the "emulation files" are per game and actually are a recompiled executable made by ***.

In short, you have to download a newly compiled executable for each game. There is no chance a random game will ever just work until *** provides a translated executable.

I'm going to guess they have to go this route because pure software emulators have to be able to run many more instructions per instruction in the original software...which is slow.

If I'm wrong, we'll find out soon enough.

While in the short term this method sucks, because it limits the titles, in the long term it could be very beneficial because you are guaranteeing no incompatibilities with games. You can also optimize each emulation file per game as well. who knows...maybe we'll see some games that are BC that don't require the HD.

[Zanzibar]

They could have emulated every Xbox game except 'MTV's Celebrity Deathmatch' and you people would still bitch about it.

About half of my games are on that list. Including 'Fuzion Frenzy', thank God, because my kids love to play that game.

[danhoo]

From the Q&A:

You mentioned that I can download the emulators from Xbox.com and burn them to a CD

Wait, so the 360 will allow reading of burned CD-Rs? Will it read burned DVD-Rs too? Wasn't one of the security measures of the previous XBox and PS2 that burned CDs/DVDs would be detected and not loaded to avoid mass piracy?

[Kelegacy]

So no PS2/PS1 type of backwards compatability. If anything, when it does work, it requires extra legwork. I dont want to have to fiddle with emulators and patches and stuff. I guess it's better than nothing, though.

That's one thing we can say good about the Playstation 2. It started this whole backwards compatability console craze, which is highly important to people like me.

[Heretic Machine]

There seems to be a lot of bitching here by people who clearly haven't read the interview linked to in the OP. In the interview it says MS is working to make the whole Xbox library backwards compatible, it just takes time, and the list will be contantly updating. So please quite the tiresome "we've been screwed over" whining and actually do some research.


God, all you people do is bitch about bitching, please quit with the tiresome "you guys do nothing but bitching" whining and actually post something worth reading.

[CrysDark]

NO Doa: XBV, Pass untill it's emulated. Thank you MS for providing another reason for me not to be an early adopter.

[Royal Fool]

JET SET RADIO FUTURE is not on there!

Oh my god. And no Psychonauts! :(

Also missing is Blinx... which I'm not really shocked over.

EDIT:
I am also curious if Microsoft actually tested every single one of these 213 games and made sure they are playable right to the end in emulation mode. A whole lot of things can go wrong while playing a game that is only emulated.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

Wow, no DOAXBV, screw that then. I want huge tits in bathing suits on my hd widescreen tv... The whole thing is stupid as hell unless exectued better than whats been said so far.

[Oddmaker]

Just think of this, what if sony goes and says they cant do all games? ;)

[The Iron Weasel]

Wow, you boys sure want your hi-def, 720p, jiggly titties!

[nonchalance]

The GC was the piracy winner this round, but that's because of those Oreo-sized discs.

Funny how the piracy winner is usually the sales loser, isn't it?

[ElectricMonk]

you know it's possible that ms is going this individual-compatibility route so they can get the most out of some of the more popular games. like halo running at 720p for example.

[Kelegacy]

Funny how the piracy winner is usually the sales loser, isn't it?
With the PC as an example:

There is a strange correlation between games that have awful copyright protection (see: starforce bullshit) and games with easily cracked or non-existent protection. The games that get pirated more, or SHOULD get pirated more, usually decimate the kick-in-the-balls copyprotected games.

I don't know what this proves, but maybe that piracy can help sales, or something? This has always been hinted at in the past, but Hell if I know what's going on.

[bapenguin]

Hmm...I think Renderware titles are missing. I wonder if once they get one of those bad boys up, that should open up a ton more.

Oh...and the previous XBox did read burned CD-RWs. Certain drives were finicky.

[Mr. Lake]

I'm going to miss Soul Calibur II and DOA:Xtreme Beach Volleyball the most. Looks like a good deal of fighting games didn't make the cut either.

Optional Gender in Fable 2 Petition
http://www.conxort.com/mrlake/petition/

[thecrazyd]

Did people complain this much when SNES games were unplayable on N64 or N64 games on the GameCube? MS should be praised for doing an effort. They could easily have ignored the compatability thing. But people never stops complaining...
Those used completely different formats. The XBox and 360 at least both use DVD.

Plus, next gen, Nintendo will have 20 years of backwards compatibility.

[mister_slim]

Hmm...I think Renderware titles are missing. I wonder if once they get one of those bad boys up, that should open up a ton more.

Grand Theft Auto and Tony Hawk are both Renderware.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

God, all you people do is bitch about bitching, please quit with the tiresome "you guys do nothing but bitching" whining and actually post something worth reading.
So bitching about people bitching about bitching is better?
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a153/TyroneBiggumz/180px-The_Simpsons-Jeff_Albertson.png
I have met hypocrisy; its name is Perigon.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Those used completely different formats. The XBox and 360 at least both use DVD.

Plus, next gen, Nintendo will have 20 years of backwards compatibility.
Yeah, for a small fee...per download...

Besides, I think i will spend a fair amount of time playing these...
http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_1962_en.html

Look at those hi-res trailers and tell me you won't be involved playing those games (if you r getting a 360) for awhile. King Kong looks sick!!

[Kelegacy]

So bitching about people bitching about bitching is better?
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a153/TyroneBiggumz/180px-The_Simpsons-Jeff_Albertson.png
I have met hypocrisy; its name is Perigon.

It's funny, I always imagined Perigon looking exactly like that. Only with a long, dark jacket on.

[Achilles]

I’m not that bothered by the lack of DOA:XBV or DOA U on there since DOA:X2 will be coming out fairly soon, and DOA4 is sometime within the launch window. It would have been cool if they could get them though. The saves not being transferred was a given just because they’re Team Ninja games and you can’t even transfer their saves to a memory card.

Deathrow’s on that list! Yay.

How hard a game was to make backward compatible probably depended on how much Nvidia and Intel specific stuff they did. MS can’t directly emulate the Nvidia and Intel stuff because it would be against the law unless they paid their ex-partners royalties, so they have to work around that and make new functions that do the same thing and get called in the same way. It’s most likely a huge pain in the neck.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

I’m not that bothered by the lack of DOA:XBV or DOA U on there since DOA:X2 will be coming out fairly soon, and DOA4 is sometime within the launch window. It would have been cool if they could get them though. The saves not being transferred was a given just because they’re Team Ninja games and you can’t even transfer their saves to a memory card.

Deathrow’s on that list! Yay.


How hard a game was to make backward compatible probably depended on how much Nvidia and Intel specific stuff they did. MS can’t directly emulate the Nvidia and Intel stuff because it would be against the law unless they paid their ex-partners royalties, so they have to work around that and make new functions that do the same thing and get called in the same way. It’s most likely a huge pain in the neck.
They did pay their ex partners to allow BC.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=9562

What they weren't going to do was manufacture the old chips to be put into the 360. That is why emulation must be used and is tricky depending upon the games.

More will come.
I personally suspect that DOAU didn't make it right away because the small cosmetic differences between it and DOA4 would be painfully apparent. Especially since all games are upscaled to 720p and antialiased.

But I'm looking forward to DOAX:2...

[Heretic Machine]

So bitching about people bitching about bitching is better?
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a153/TyroneBiggumz/180px-The_Simpsons-Jeff_Albertson.png
I have met hypocrisy; its name is Perigon.

1. Thanks for missing the joke in my post.

2. Comparing me to the Comic Book Guy is a compliment. Geeks > Wanna-be's.

[Achilles]

They did pay their ex partners to allow BC.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=9562

What they weren't going to do was manufacture the old chips to be put into the 360. That is why emulation must be used and is tricky depending upon the games.

But I'm looking forward to DOAX:2...Looks like they got one of their partners if that article was accurate, they didn't get Intel. Not sure how much that matters.

DOA:X2's going to rock. DOA:X is the only game that's made me feel like I'm on vacation. You can just play it and have fun, you don't need to compete at it, which was very clearly the intent behind it.

[CrysDark]

But I'm looking forward to DOAX:2...


Theres gonna be a sequal, ?? Proof please.

[Heretic Machine]

Yeah, for a small fee...per download...

-NOTHING- like that has been said yet. We don't know how you will get old Nintendo games. Some could be completly free, we don't know. They may come with certain Revolution or Gamecube games, we don't know. They may have some built into the Revolution, we don't know. Maybe achieving goals in certain games will unlock them, we don't know.

Why don't we know? Because the Revolution is a long way off, and Nintendo hasn't said anything about how the old games will be distributed.

[Achilles]

Theres gonna be a sequal, ?? Proof please.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/646/646951p1.html
He's also working on Project Progressive (whatever that is), Ninja Gaiden 2 and Code Chronos (still).

[Achilles]

-NOTHING- like that has been said yet. We don't know how you will get old Nintendo games. Some could be completly free, we don't know. They may come with certain Revolution or Gamecube games, we don't know. They may have some built into the Revolution, we don't know. Maybe achieving goals in certain games will unlock them, we don't know.

Why don't we know? Because the Revolution is a long way off, and Nintendo hasn't said anything about how the old games will be distributed.It’s really hard to find a real transcript of what they’ve said at their conference it seems. The one IGN has isn’t accurate. But go watch the press conference.

“Capable of downloading 20 years of Nintendo content. You will be able to purchase these games originally created for the NES SNES and N64…” minute 44-45 of the press conference.

Edit: The 'conference' is their E3 2005 press conference.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/646/646951p1.html
He's also working on Project Progressive (whatever that is), Ninja Gaiden 2 and Code Chronos (still).
Thank you Achilles.

[AzN.Homeboy]

I figure there's been plenty of people complaining about games absent, but let me just add the few that I noticed:

Shenmue II
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Outrun 2

[Groo]

I wonder how many of you people that are bitching now about the Xbox 360 being incompaitable with certain games will:

a) actually buy a 360, or

b) play those games for more than 20 minutes if you were to get a 360

[BabyJesus]

I must say that list is MUCH bigger than I thought it would be. I won't miss the games not on there because I will still have the original XBOX too as will most of the people who buy the 360, I'm sure.

[Heretic Machine]

a) actually buy a 360, or

b) play those games for more than 20 minutes if you were to get a 360

Getting a 360 for free, and yes, I would play DoA: U quite a bit.

[mkelehan]

Getting a 360 for free, and yes, I would play DoA: U quite a bit.

...until you get DOA4.

[Heretic Machine]

...until you get DOA4.

Not buying DoA4. Though I enjoy the DoA games, I doubt there will be enough of a difference to make it a worthy purchase. I will most likely buy DoA: XVB 2 when/if it comes out.

[Savok]

If there isn't more then one version, it isn't a real fighter.

[TrackZero]

Not buying DoA4. Though I enjoy the DoA games, I doubt there will be enough of a difference to make it a worthy purchase. I will most likely buy DoA: XVB 2 when/if it comes out.

I'll agree to that, DOA4 really is just DOA3 with a few new characters and maps and a graphics upgrade.

Though I gotta admit, watching the high-res trailers for it on gamespot, wow, I mean, holy shit graphics upgrade (then again, I've never played DOA3 or DOA:U on a HDTV, so I only can compare to a normal TV).

[EternalGamer]

One thing I'm bummed about: no Xmen Legends 2, which is a game I was planning on buying soon. I figured since it's a new game it would work fine BC like all the other new titles (Stubs, NG: Black etc.).

Dan

[CaptMediocre]

Damn you Capcom and Microsoft. Damn you to hell.

[Achilles]

I'll agree to that, DOA4 really is just DOA3 with a few new characters and maps and a graphics upgrade.

Though I gotta admit, watching the high-res trailers for it on gamespot, wow, I mean, holy shit graphics upgrade (then again, I've never played DOA3 or DOA:U on a HDTV, so I only can compare to a normal TV).DOA 4 plays more different than it looks. The graphical upgrade compared to some of the other games isn't that big, but the gameplay is very different, namely faster and smoother, all the characters feel different, and there are 4 new characters. Other than an actual single player game I'm not sure what people want out of it. It certainly plays very little like DOA3 last I saw.

[Heretic Machine]

One thing I'm bummed about: no Xmen Legends 2, which is a game I was planning on buying soon. I figured since it's a new game it would work fine BC like all the other new titles (Stubs, NG: Black etc.).

No X-men Legends or Spider-man games. Marvel fans are getting screwed.

[nonchalance]

One thing I'm bummed about: no Xmen Legends 2, which is a game I was planning on buying soon. I figured since it's a new game it would work fine BC like all the other new titles (Stubs, NG: Black etc.).

Dan

Stubbs probably only works because it's on the Halo engine, and Gaiden is an established successful franchise.

I am surprised at the lack of Marvel love, though.

[EternalGamer]

Yeah but there was a new story floating around several months ago about how all new XBOX games (starting with NG: Black) would have the built in capacity to play on the 360. Seeing as how Legends 2 came out after that, I thought it was a shoe in.

[Achilles]

Stubbs probably only works because it's on the Halo engine, and Gaiden is an established successful franchise.

I am surprised at the lack of Marvel love, though.Actually Gaiden probably only works because DOA3 works. DOA3 is one of the top selling Xbox games and I believe NG used the old DOA3 engine instead of the new DOA:XBV engine which is what DOA:U used.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Actually Gaiden probably only works because DOA3 works. DOA3 is one of the top selling Xbox games and I believe NG used the old DOA3 engine instead of the new DOA:XBV engine which is what DOA:U used.
Correct. The DOA3 engine was used to make Ninja Gaiden...at least according to Kikizo.

[Morratut]

I am dissapointed that Capcom vs SNK EO2 isn't on the BC list. Maybe its a way for Capcom to get you the new version.

[Ultima Thulian]

This list sucks. Better off just keeping my old Xbox and saving me the hassle. So I can play my old games in hi-def. Whoop-fucking-do.

[dr_wily]

i kept all my consoles, and shoot from what i can recollect not a one was backwards compatible.. lets see the list:

atari 2600
nes
snes
genesis
n64
ps1
dc
gc

i guess if i got a ps2 that chain would be broken.. im more exited of the upconversion myself

now if i owned an xbox (im only a partial nintendofanboy, i play xbox alot with the friends), i would only be dissapointed that i couldnt replace the ginormous xbox and save some shelf space.. but if you mod your console youd want to keep it around anyway right?

NOW what they really need is an xbox 1.5, a teeny one like the teeny ps2.. that would be swizzle.

[Murmillo]

I wonder what will and still won't be on this list - say - after christmas.. I wonder if then the "magic" of BC will die down. Everybody will bust a few nuts seeing Halo2 (or fav game on the list) in HD and in a month it will be nearly forgotten as people move on.

[TrackZero]

i kept all my consoles, and shoot from what i can recollect not a one was backwards compatible.. lets see the list:

atari 2600
nes
snes
genesis
n64
ps1
dc
gc

i guess if i got a ps2 that chain would be broken.. im more exited of the upconversion myself

now if i owned an xbox (im only a partial nintendofanboy, i play xbox alot with the friends), i would only be dissapointed that i couldnt replace the ginormous xbox and save some shelf space.. but if you mod your console youd want to keep it around anyway right?

NOW what they really need is an xbox 1.5, a teeny one like the teeny ps2.. that would be swizzle.

I hate to retread old ground, because this has been covered before. The "issue" with backwards compatibility is because today's consoles aren't like the old ones. These ones break, easily. They will not last you the next 10-20 years. Either their optical drive will fail, their harddrive or memory cards will, or the optical media itself will become damaged/scratched and not be readable (if you don't take proper care of CD/DVDs and even if you do, they don't usually last past 10 years). This is why there's concern and a want for backwards compatibility.

Work out from the knowledge that these consoles will not last, and go from there as to how you'll want to play your copy of Halo 10 years from now (especially if you want the "console experience" of not emulating it on the PC).

Edit: As a further note, I know MANY people who've had their PS1 and DC's already die on them or become unplayable. And while this isn't yet critical, it's going to become a wide-spread problem in another 5 years or more.

[mister_slim]

Edit: As a further note, I know MANY people who've had their PS1 and DC's already die on them or become unplayable. And while this isn't yet critical, it's going to become a wide-spread problem in another 5 years or more.
I've seen a few dead PS2s and Xboxs as well.

[Evil Avatar]

Wow. I just took time to check out that list. No DOOM, no DOOM expansion pack and none of the Splinter Cell or Ghost Recon titles? No Counter-Strike? No Unreal titles of any kind??? Microsoft really needs to pull their heads out of their asses and get this fixed up.

[nonchalance]

No DOOM, no DOOM expansion pack and none of the Splinter Cell or Ghost Recon titles? No Counter-Strike? No Unreal titles of any kind?

They're just telling you to buy the PC versions.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Wow. I just took time to check out that list. No DOOM, no DOOM expansion pack and none of the Splinter Cell or Ghost Recon titles? No Counter-Strike? No Unreal titles of any kind??? Microsoft really needs to pull their heads out of their asses and get this fixed up.
Are you serious? I hardly believe that the lack of those titles working from day one constitutes MS having their heads in the asses. Since those were top 100 games, I'm pretty sure we will see them no later than Q1 next year.

It's amazing how people will slam MS (or any other company) for not being 100% perfect. I'm happy they were able to get as many games working as they did...and it didn't take them that long either.

[Ultima Thulian]

Wow. I just took time to check out that list. No DOOM, no DOOM expansion pack and none of the Splinter Cell or Ghost Recon titles? No Counter-Strike? No Unreal titles of any kind??? Microsoft really needs to pull their heads out of their asses and get this fixed up.

Amen brother. They said all of their "big sellers" would be on the BC list. All of those titles you mentioned (except Doom and its expansion pack) are all platimun hits titles. All platimun hits games should be on the list. They can put weaksauce shit like Airforce Delta on there but no Doom?! Bullshit! I'll just keep my old Xbox.

As for systems croaking, that's true to an extent, but with proper care and maintence a system (CD based or otherwise) can last much longer than they're supposed to. They'll eventually croak, but by that time you can get a used (hell, maybe even new) version of that system for dirt cheap. I love backwards capability, but I don't find it to be neccessary. But damn, I love a system that does have it. Just check the PS3 and Revolution (especially the Rev.) That's how BC is done. The 360 would've been better off without BC. This "list" method is both confusing and aggravating to the consumer.