Final Fantasy XII Demo Impressions [PS2]

[bapenguin]

1UP (http://www.1up.com/) has their impressions (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3145629&did=1) of the soon to be release Final Fantasy XII demo that will come bundled with Dragon Quest VIII. For longtime fans of the series, it sounds like the game is a large departure from classic FF gameplay.

No question about it, Final Fantasy XII is radically different from its predecessors. The days of random battles, isolated "drama stage"-style combat arenas and lining up politely to take swings at bad guys are gone. This is not the old-school Final Fantasy action you've come to expect -- but the trade-off is a fast-paced, combat-intensive game with a vast, contiguous world and danger on all sides.

Battles now take place on the main exploration screen. You can see enemies from an impressive distance; when you're far away, they wander around on their own paths, doing their own thing, even getting into skirmishes with one another. There's no transition to combat, no change in music or scene as you engage the foe. Enemies can sneak up on you from behind, and likewise, you can get the jump on foes by initiating combat before they see you.
I don't like the sound of it already. Sounds like they are changing what has been at the core of Final Fantasy.

[Kelegacy]

While I didn't need a change, it's nice to see Square try to take FF12 in a new direction, even if it's only for one incarnation.

I've tried not to be excited about this, but now with Dragon Warrior (Quest) 8 coming out, I'll be able to try out the demo. That will be both good AND bad....I've held anticipation off for a long time. The demo might ruin it all.

[51|RandoM]

I wish they would change the core. I like the artwork and the backstory, but the gameplay is boring and repetitive.

A large part of that boredom was the combat transitions you had to sit through 8 billion times.

[hideouslywrinkled]

Seeing as how I haven't played a Final Fantasy since the three hours I invested in FF8... this is a good thing.

[Paltry]

yea ff is fucking boring...

[kid cabelgo]

As much as i loved FFVII, for the life of me I could not finish that game because of the battle system. Just trying to get from point A to B without twenty times hearing that whooshing noise. Twenty times hearing the music change to that same song. Twenty more times fighting a giant house. I couldn't take it anymore.

Change can be good.

[Serapth]

Yeah... never really got the final fantasy obsession.

Cheese stories, cornball dialog, and main characters that are so overly melodramatic I would punch em in real life. But damn dem movies were purdy.

So any change in my mind can only be for the better. I did hate the load pause for entering combat so this change could be kinda nice.

[Atorak]

Is this title only being released on PS2?

<pass>

[humanliteshow]

As much as i loved FFVII, for the life of me I could not finish that game because of the battle system. Just trying to get from point A to B without twenty times hearing that whooshing noise. Twenty times hearing the music change to that same song. Twenty more times fighting a giant house. I couldn't take it anymore.

Change can be good.

My sentiments exactly.

[novicius]

So any change in my mind can only be for the better.

Ditto.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters. Eat me.

[Heretic Machine]

I don't like the sound of it already. Sounds like they are changing what has been at the core of Final Fantasy.

Well since the last four have all sucked, and the last really good one they did was FF6, I'd say it's about time for a change. I *gasp* might actually enjoy this one enough to finish it, something that no FF (excluding FFT) has done for me since FF7.

[frederec]

If I remember correctly, they wanted to do something like this with FFX, but didn't have time. That is, not having the game transition to a separate battle screen. I will disagree with most people here and say I like FF. But not for the story or characters. Those do tend to be pretty generic and stupid (with the exception of FFX in my opinion). I've always liked the experimental character growth systems. Materia, Sphere Board, even the Draw system had some interesting stuff going on. Some people like the MMORPG grind, I dig the FF grind.

[Kefkataran]

Interesting changes. I wonder how they play.

[AzN.Homeboy]

So it'll be kind of like Chrono Trigger.

[danhoo]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of "random battles" often found in a lot of JRPGs, so some of the changes sound pretty welcome to me. But it does seem like a break in tradition.

[Exodus]

So it'll be kind of like Chrono Trigger.

Hopefully it'll be just as good if not better than if they actually re-made chrono trigger itself! :eek:

[RMan]

Yea, the combat has been the weakest part of the game for some time, I welcome the change.

[mkelehan]

Let them change it. Every FF has some sort of new system. If you want a classic style RPG, FF3-6 are being rereleased on DS and GBA soon, and there's also, what do you call it... Dragon Quest Freaking 8, which is as classic as you can get.

[markster3000]

Yeah, I think that this change could certainly be for the better.

The battle system in FFX2 was an interesting change, bringing real-time battles into the fold, but it was still based around the random encounter.

Grandia 2 I felt was a nice change from this. You could actually see all the enemies, before you fought, and, if you and your party were close to death, you could actually avoid battles. And then the positional nature of the battle system provided another interesting element ot the battles. If you get grouped up, then attacks may hurt multiple characters at once.

If Final Fantasy is bringing in these Grandia-esque elements, it will certainly be a fresh experience.

[Metal Jesus]

I am not that thrilled to read that the combat is more action based. I really enjoy turned based combat... allows you to think and plan more, and less about button mashing.

That said, I am still looking forward to this title since I'm a FF Fanboy.

[Bishop]

Sounds like to me that it's going to be like FFXI, in that you can see the creatures and avoid them if you don't want to fight them. Sounds good to me, like was stated previously, it would cut down on the every 5 steps and you fight problem. It really grates on the nerves after a while.

[Kelegacy]

Is this title only being released on PS2?

<pass>

And this is any different from the past? It would be like saying "Halo 2 only being released on Xbox and not Gamecube? I'll pass."

[TrackZero]

I don't like the sound of it already. Sounds like they are changing what has been at the core of Final Fantasy.

The core to me was always the story and worlds. But yeah, I remember in "Power Up" there was discussion that while Mario and the like were skill-based games, Final Fantasy took a sharp divergance to it being more of a grind for equipment, experience and levels (so everyone could enjoy it). I don't remember if that was a purposeful quote by the early developers, or just discussion by the author themselves though.

Still, this really isn't too different. I can't imagine them making the battle system that much more difficult. Though this does interest me, because I HATE random battles. We'll have to see how this pans out.

[Paltry]

So wait... it issssssssssss coming out for xbox?

[TrackZero]

And this is any different from the past? It would be like saying "Halo 2 only being released on Xbox and not Gamecube? I'll pass."

Well they're not an exclusive developer, so you never know where this title may end up.

[Banacek]

I know I'm crazy, but I love FF (and I loved FFX). That being said, I'm excited about the change. Between this, Dragon Quest VIII, and the new Shadow Hearts, I'm got a ton of gaming hours to log in... :)

Edit: forgot an I in VIII

[EvilBob46]

Is this title only being released on PS2?

<pass>

By the time this game comes out, the PS2 will be $99 anyway. Consider extending your gaming horizons a bit buddy.

Well they're not an exclusive developer, so you never know where this title may end up.

I think future FF games might come to the Xbox 360 (in addition to FFXI Online), but not this one. The game has been in developement for 4 years and is getting to a point where it's almost done. It's been optimized for the PS2 in every imagineable way to run at its fullest potential on that console.

I know I'm crazy, but I love FF (and I loved FFX).

A lot of people love Final Fantasy. This is probably one of the few internet gaming sites/boards where a majority of people seem to dislike the series (and Japanese games in general).

[PantherModern]

They're going to lose a lot of fanboys, but overall any change is a positive thing at this point. They have been running the same game setup since the original final fantasy on NES all those years ago. Mixing it up a bit can't hurt.

[RMan]

I really enjoy turned based combat... allows you to think and plan more, and less about button mashing.
I agree with this, I love good turn-based combat, but FF's battles were just too simple to make the turn-based combat interesting.

[Sazime]

I like that fact that with every new FF, there is a little change in the system to make the game stand out a bit more from the former. If they all played EXACTLY the same, I'd go nuts. The overhaul to the battle system was the one thing they really haven't done since the beginning, unless you count FF:MQ.

[gojira]

I don't like the sound of it already. Sounds like they are changing what has been at the core of Final Fantasy.

I gotta agree with many other posters. This sounds like a good thing.

Grandia II for the Dreamcast (and later Nintendo, I think) had gameplay like this. You could see monsters and sneak up on them (gave you first shot at them) and they could sneak up on you (baddies got first shot). You could also try to avoid monsters altogether if you were in a dire straights and low on health and magic.

There weren't turns, there was an initiative system, and each character and baddie had their own rates. Attack speeds and recovery varied according to your stats and what items you had equiped.

And while Grandia II still had arenas, you could wander all over the arena. Movement was encouraged, in fact. There were powers that could send monster flying away from you or could draw baddies close together for an uber attack. Or you could just have a character run to a different place in the arena to try to avoid an attack.

Overall it was pretty cool.

[Banacek]

gojira: Don't forget, this format can be done to horrible consequences..

/remembers the last Star Ocean

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040906l.jpg

[The Iron Weasel]

God penny-arcade is amazing....

[Kelegacy]

Star Ocean: TtEoT was not a bad game. The combat had a learning curve because of all the options, but it had great battles.

[Zurik]

I'm old and I hate change! Things were better when I was young! <ahem> Now that I have that out of my system, this is looking good. Going realtime is a nice change, and the whole game is set in the Final Fantasy Tactics universe, which I really loved. I'm gonna give it a chance, couldn't be worse than FFX.

[TrackZero]

A lot of people love Final Fantasy. This is probably one of the few internet gaming sites/boards where a majority of people seem to dislike the series (and Japanese games in general).

I'd disagree with that "Japanese games in general" statement. I can only speak for myself, but I don't worship a game simply because it's from Japan (which I find many places do now days, as it's "cool"). If a game is great, it should speak for itself. Unfortunately, just like the American market, Japan also puts out mountains of crap games. There are also many titles that excell in one aspect (be it story, gameplay or something else), but fail in others, yet are praised by the gaming media for being so "innovative" (i.e. these guys will love anything new, since all they do all day is play clones of the same genres over and over).

So what I find on EA, is that we're not quite as jaded as the professional gaming reviewers. Ironically, due to this, we don't suck Japan's collective balls over every import title we play. There's also a much older gaming crowd here, so we have a lot more of the "been there, done that J-RPG" feeling and aren't as easily wowed as younger gamers.

So in summary, it's not that we don't like Japanese games, we just treat them as fairly as games from any other country, no special treatment like they receive elsewhere for a variety of reasons.

[TrackZero]

I'm old and I hate change! Things were better when I was young! <ahem> Now that I have that out of my system, this is looking good. Going realtime is a nice change, and the whole game is set in the Final Fantasy Tactics universe, which I really loved. I'm gonna give it a chance, couldn't be worse than FFX.

Tactics almost made me slit my wrists. That was turn-based hell for me. I did enjoy the games system, it just seemed that I spent 90% of the game having to tell my guys "yes, keep fucking attacking him you moron". And then, when I just can't pay as much attention anymore, BLAM, a judge drops down and I broke another god-fucking-damnit rule.

But yeah, it was still a fun little game.

[Venkman]

This is the only FF game to interest me since Crystal Chronicles. I'm glad some of the dev team from Vagrant Story (the most fun RPG I ever played) have given this slow franchise a shot in the arm.

Combined with the insane human modeling and beautiful artistic direction, I may have to buy a PS2 just for this. ;-)

[Neverborne]

Any game on its 12th iteration NEEDS to have its core gameplay changed.

[n3ver]

The combat system seems to mirror that of FFXI. I suspect this will have an online multiplayer component.

[captainspankypants]

Every time a new FF game comes out, I start asking the question "What does it play like?" I usually find that I'm still asking that question all the way up to the day of release, or at least very close to it. You can get tons of screen shots (yay pretty), but news on the battle system is almost always reduced to the most general basics imaginable pretty much until the game is out. OK, so you can move around and there's no random battles. So... it plays like Orphen: Scion of Sorcery? It could be anything. Until I know how it plays (probably when the demo comes out), I don't give a rat's ass how many pretty pictures they throw on the pile.

[Borys]

I don't like the sound of it already. Sounds like they are changing what has been at the core of Final Fantasy.

My thoughts exactly.

I don't need experiments with FF series - see Crystal Chronicles, I just want NEXT Final Fantasy game.

[MasterKwan]

If there's turn based combat, well I just turn away and play something else.

[FunkyPoopMonkey]

I guess I can understand the FF fanboy opinion. I'm a big RE fan, but when RE4 came out, and I realized that they changed everything I loved about RE, I was pissed. The game was crappy.

Now Square is changing Final Fantasy, and it's the first FF I am interested in. But thats because I hate all the modern FF's.

[Captain Awesome]

Do the male characters look like actual men in this one?

I guess I can understand the FF fanboy opinion. I'm a big RE fan, but when RE4 came out, and I realized that they changed everything I loved about RE, I was pissed. The game was crappy.

Now Square is changing Final Fantasy, and it's the first FF I am interested in. But thats because I hate all the modern FF's.

No way RE4 fixed everything I disliked in the RE series. Been playing RE since the very first game. They just made the series better. Being able to shoot flying weapons thrown at you and the response time of the shooting system was great. The only thing bad I could say about it, was the turning speed could have been made faster.

Other than that they actually re-invented that tired series and made it fresh again.

[Kelegacy]

RE4 is a great game. However, I think it may be too dependant on action. Survival horror it really isn't. More like a horror-themed action game. Still, it's superb.

With a few more tweaks, RE5 could be perfect.

[abso]

So it'll be kind of like Chrono Trigger.

Sounds more like secret of mana to me.

[Mason]

On the one hand, I'm cautiously optimistic about any attempts to redo the game system. Honestly, to a large extent FFX nailed the turn-based system, and their only choices are to do something similar, do something worse, or do something new.

On the other hand, I found FFTA to be an abomination which shat upon everything good about the original Tactics. I mean, it was really stunning how much worse it is. So given that the same director is working on FFXII, my expectations are pretty low, as his instincts for trying new things in a productive way are obviously poor.

[abso]

Star Ocean: TtEoT was not a bad game. The combat had a learning curve because of all the options, but it had great battles.

If by learning curve you mean figure out how to chain the same two skills back and forth to inflict massive damage over and over again. Oh, and realizing that if your MP hits zero you die... Now that was just ridiculous.

[Worldcrafter]

Sounds more like secret of mana to me.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Except FFXII doesn't sound as fun as playing Secret of Mana.

[Rakael]

Hell no, Secret of Mana is the best game ever made. If it does take a SoM approach though, I'll at least give it a shot.

[MasterKwan]

RE4 is up there as one of the best games I've ever played. I liked the older RE's too, this one was just head and shoulders better. I found some parts frusteratingly hard because of my poor reaction times but, it was satisfying when I finally got through it.

So many people seem to be "sticks in the mud". They have problem with change. I like change, it doesn't always work but, that forward progression is what keeps things interesting.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I don't mind turn based battles in the least - hell turn based strategy titles on the PC are probably my favorite overall genre of games - especially the Age of Wonders series.

What I do hate are random battles. One of the worst offenders that I have played is Skies of Arcadia on the Dreamcast. I wanted to do terrible things to that disc. Every 2 steps results in another "random" battle. What's worse is that several of these tiny little monsters with no actual strength or hitpoints had a spell that, if it worked (which it seemed to do often) would just instantly kill a party member. They weren't everywhere in the game, but they were overly concentrated in a few areas that I had to travel through several times.

Grandia 2 was much, much less stressful simply because I could see the enemies on the screen, as it should be. None of this walking along and suddenly "OMG A T-REX HIDING IN THE GRASS!!!" bullshit.

[fushi]

As much as i loved FFX, for the life of me I could not finish that game because of the battle system. Just trying to get from point A to B without twenty times hearing that whooshing noise. Twenty times hearing the music change to that same song. Twenty more times fighting a giant caterpillar. I couldn't take it anymore.

Change can be good.
Edited for me. Random encounters that appear out of nowhere should just die.

[Rakael]

I would really enjoy SMT: Nocturne a lot more if it weren't for all the random battles. However, having played this type of game a million times before, its something I can get through to enjoy the rest of the game.

Random battles were originally a product of necessity that ended up becoming a mainstay of most J-RPGs. Its time to let it go now that the games aren't limited by the technology.

[Fyd]

I Dont like FF, perhaps if the battle was in real time, but the turn based system is boring.......

[H.Bogard]

And this is any different from the past? It would be like saying "Halo 2 only being released on Xbox and not Gamecube? I'll pass."

FF8 was on the PS and the PC. Same for FFXI. and theres a tonne of ff games on the gba i think

[The Iron Weasel]

Anyone who says that RE4 is worse then the previous RE's needs to see a fucking psychiatrist!

[Kelegacy]

If by learning curve you mean figure out how to chain the same two skills back and forth to inflict massive damage over and over again. Oh, and realizing that if your MP hits zero you die... Now that was just ridiculous.

Call it death by mental exhaustion, perhaps?

[midrael]

I love FF, always found the stories engaging (one of the most important aspects of a game for me), and this is easily one of my more anticipated future titles.

Actually, from what I read from the article, aside from the random battles, it would seem you have the choice to use either turn based mechanics or the active time mechanics. They mentioned that both wait mode and active mode are included on the demo. That would seem to eliminate a lot of the fear about how combat works if you can pick and choose your preferred style. I particularly love the absence of random battles (easily one of the most annoying traits of FF). This was a welcome absence in Chrono Trigger so I think this will work well here!

[Zeal]

I've played it. It's basically another generic action game, now. FF ended long ago.

[IenjoyedKingsField]

As much as everyone loves FFVII, it was a death sentence to the series. Moving to 3d has forced them to focus so much on visuals at the expense of story and engaging turn-based battles that the heart of the game is gone. I wanted so badly to like FFX, but the story is just not fun to follow. It's boring, long-winded, and forced you to watch for far too long before you were able to control anything. The same things are wrong with the final fantasy games as with the final fantasy movie -- all the heart is missing.

Change will be a good thing, but I think the best RPGs are still 2d (or 2 and 1/2 like tactics). Back then they still cared about more than cut-scenes.

[Kefkataran]

I'm a big RE fan, but when RE4 came out, and I realized that they changed everything I loved about RE, I was pissed. The game was crappy.

Whoa. I liked the RE series before 4 also, but I still definitely think you're in the vast minority here. Sure, they changed everything, but I wouldn't even get close to saying they changed it for the worse.

I've played it. It's basically another generic action game, now. FF ended long ago.

You're one of the biggest downers I ever met. Yeesh.

[Sensei-X]

I think future FF games might come to the Xbox 360 (in addition to FFXI Online), but not this one. The game has been in developement for 4 years and is getting to a point where it's almost done. It's been optimized for the PS2 in every imagineable way to run at its fullest potential on that console.


To me this screams of "We have to put FFXII on other consoles to get our huge time an money investment back because by the time it's released many would've traded in their PS2 to get cash for a PS3 or will be saving money for a PS3 and have no desire to spend any more on the "last generation" games so the chances are this game will not sell the millions of copies we expected when it was releasing a year earlier". But then again, I'm pretty sure all Square-Enix has to do is suggest they might have to port it to Xbox 360 to get Sony to cough up more cash to keep it exclusive for at least a year.

[abso]

Call it death by mental exhaustion, perhaps?

I tried to think of it that way, but it just seemed awkward when a tank would shoot me with a missile that damaged my mp, and not my hp... They would have been better off just saying everything uses hp.

[Serapth]

Holy Shit, I figured by saying something negative about the sacred final fantasy Id get flamed to hell. Im impressed sometimes by EA's audience.

[Kefkataran]

I figured by saying something negative about the sacred final fantasy Id get flamed to hell. Im impressed sometimes by EA's audience.

Here's a fun one. Try saying something negative about the sacred Xbox 360. Then see how you feel about the EA audience. ;)

[Serapth]

Here's a fun one. Try saying something negative about the sacred Xbox 360. Then see how you feel about the EA audience. ;)
Ok...

The two SKU launch is fucking retarded...
The supply chain hype is just a bunch of marketing BS...
Live should be free... like MS really needs or 50$ a year...
Launching on MTV was fucking queer...
J. Allard... grow some fucking hair...
BGates... when it comes to the XBox, just stfu, your just making shit worse
Balmer... your a prick

Hmm... actually, thats about as much as I can come up with right now :) Then again, of the current generation my favorite I own is my xbox...

[Kefkataran]

The two SKU launch is fucking retarded...
The supply chain hype is just a bunch of marketing BS...
Live should be free... like MS really needs or 50$ a year...
Launching on MTV was fucking queer...
J. Allard... grow some fucking hair...
BGates... when it comes to the XBox, just stfu, your just making shit worse
Balmer... your a prick


Good effort! I'm impressed! :p

Then again, of the current generation my favorite I own is my xbox...

I'll probably buy an Xbox shortly after its price drops after the 360 release.

[Danin]

I don't like the sound of it already. Sounds like they are changing what has been at the core of Final Fantasy.

What's at the core of Final Fantasy is a gameplay model that's been obsolete ever since hardware allowed the same kind of action to happen in realtime. The only ways to keep the series compelling is to either go completely turn-based strategy a la FF Tactics or abandon the menu-based combat entirely.

[Exodus]

I don't know, I just miss that feeling I got when I played FFVII the first time ;\
I mean jeez, I played the game 30hrs straight, passed out, then beat it finally after I finally did all that chocobo racing bs

I haven't played a game like that in a long time.. there were a lot of good games since then, I want that experience of realizing I've been sitting for too long and ache all over lol

oh well, must be because I got a life more than anything since then, though can't say I've played a game with a really good story in a while ;\ Guess I'll pin my hopes on oblivion ;)

[Rommel]

Oh sweet merciful Christ... NOOOOOO

[Sykus]

I was expecting to be really unimpressed, but actually after reading the review this sounds pretty interesting. Seems like all your basic Final Fantasy elements are there (minus the victory music - surely they snuck it in there *somewhere*) and the combat system sounds intriguing. I'm looking forward to trying the demo and giving it a fair chance.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I really don't see how so many of you can hate the turn based battles themselves. Wouldn't it be a little boring if EVERY game out there had real time combat?

90% or more of the games released these days have real-time action elements - why not play one of those?

[Kelegacy]

I really don't see how so many of you can hate the turn based battles themselves. Wouldn't it be a little boring if EVERY game out there had real time combat?

90% or more of the games released these days have real-time action elements - why not play one of those?

I don't hate the turned based, random encounter stuff. Games like Grandia and the Tales series have made random combat fun. Turn based JRPGs are old-school, but each game usually brings something new to the mix to spice it up a bit, like Nocturne's demon-interaction or FFX's character swap.

I think that RPGs are moving too much towards the Diablo hack/slash formula, and it pains me deeply. The PC RPGs of today are basically all Diablo clones and many console games are becoming too action-oriented. Diablo games are easier to make and are accessible to a wider audience though, because about 96.58% of people are retarded.

^^and yes, that number is the actual percentage. Studies were conducted.

[Heretic Machine]

I'm old and I hate change! Things were better when I was young! <ahem> Now that I have that out of my system, this is looking good. Going realtime is a nice change, and the whole game is set in the Final Fantasy Tactics universe, which I really loved. I'm gonna give it a chance, couldn't be worse than FFX.

Sorry I'm the one that has to inform you of this, but this game doesn't take place in the FFT setting. It takes place in the FFTA setting, and if you'll remember, it sucked ass.

[Kefkataran]

Sorry I'm the one that has to inform you of this, but this game doesn't take place in the FFT setting. It takes place in the FFTA setting, and if you'll remember, it sucked ass.

It's a setting with the same name as the setting in FFT, FFTA, and Vagrant Story, I believe. But it's not actually directly related to any of these (supposedly).