CoD4 Community Manager Rips Activison Producer

[Emabulator]

Voodoo Extreme dug up (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/42853/Call-of-Duty-4-Community-Guy-Rants-At-Activision-Producer) this rant (http://www.fourzerotwo.com/2008/11/07/noah-heller-stop-doing-interviews/) by Robert Bowling (Infinity Ward Community Manager), directed at Noah Heller (Activision Producer), ripping into him about the way he has conducted himself while promoting Call of Duty: World at War. If I see one more Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare google alert come through my inbox, that ends up being a COD:WaW article that is only showing up because YOU referenced Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare more times than you mention World At War….

Especially when you’re pulling s**t out of your ass. Come on man, interview about your game. Not OURS! Call of Duty: World at War can stand on it’s own merits, leave ours out of it. Like this gem of a quote from today’s article on CVG…

“In the previous Call of Dutys it might take three or four shots from a bolt action rifle,” he explained. “We made sure that a single shot centre mass would kill that opponent because that’s the expectation of the player.”

WTF are you talking about?! “in previous Call of Dutys blah blah blah”. First of all, you didn’t work on “previous Call of Dutys”, so don’t talk as if you’re down with how / why things were designed the way they were. Second, you’re completely f***ing wrong.
Let us know how you really feel Robert.

[holysin]

Yeah, somebody's going to lose their job.

In the future, remember: if you work as a Community Manager, do NOT post anything when you're drunk.

[oldschooldimo]

awesome. someone give that guy a high five.

[Metal Khaos]

Haha, that's great.

[Mr.Green]

That's real mature and professional Robert. You don't come across as a giant fucking whiny tardburger or anything.

[Darcydian]

I'm glad this guy went off like this, I refuse to think of this game as a Call of Duty, these guys are leeching off the well of goodness that Infinity Ward drilled and acting like they're aren't when it's been publically pointed out (ref: earlier this year when Activision announced officially that they would continue trading the series AND the source code apparently, between Treyarch and Infinity Ward)
Activision can suck a big one on this one, and Treyarch needs to explore a little thing called respect and show some to the people who even made it possible for you to pay for the toilet paper you use to wipe your ass after producing this peice of shit.

[greenapple]

I'm glad this guy went off like this, I refuse to think of this game as a Call of Duty, these guys are leeching off the well of goodness that Infinity Ward drilled and acting like they're aren't when it's been publically pointed out (ref: earlier this year when Activision announced officially that they would continue trading the series AND the source code apparently, between Treyarch and Infinity Ward)
Activision can suck a big one on this one, and Treyarch needs to explore a little thing called respect and show some to the people who even made it possible for you to pay for the toilet paper you use to wipe your ass after producing this peice of shit.

You mean the goodwill, source code, and trademark that Activision has paid for and Infinity Ward has been fairly compensated for?

That's what happens when you sell your labors for another- you get money and they get the right to do with it as they will.

I don't see Infinity Ward challenging on the basis of contract breach or misappropriation, hence I'm going to assume that Activision is using what it's paid for.

This is a community manager (not even a game dev or programmer) getting possessive over something Inifinity Ward doesn't even own- the Call of Duty brand.

[bjornbarspingvinen]

I hope more people like him speak up, producers can be really annoying.

[menage]

This is a community manager (not even a game dev or programmer) getting possessive over something Inifinity Ward doesn't even own- the Call of Duty brand.

I love it how it's always Treyarch who get's the piss when Activision is clearly the one deserving it in these cases.

I wish this kind of news stays where it's supposed to be, in a meeting room, away from us.

[abso]

IP rights aside, it is disrespectful for a company to tout around a purchased IP as though that company developed it on their own. They certainly have a right to do so, but it is a poor way to act and doesn't exactly encourage people to become members of that company.

This rant was inappropriate though. I'm all for ripping a new one to the people that deserve it, but this was the wrong way to do so. Hope he doesn't lose his job over it.

[Darcydian]

Both Treyarch and Infinity Ward are owned by Activision.

The CoD trade mark was not purchased by Activision the entire company was IP included. They obviously have the right to do with it whatever they want, but giving that stellar IP to a third rate developer so you can churn a new one out every year is a fucking hack job and puts you in a position to try and be the next EA. It's all about the money, which is why i'm so pissed, they're taking the CoD namesake and pimping it out for some meager cash at the expense of their own image.

[Darcydian]

And to back myself up on 3rd rate developer.
List of games done by Treyarch.
They should stick to porting games for other companies to consoles.
Die by the Sword (1998)
Die by the Sword: Limb from Limb (1998) (Expansion Pack)
Triple Play 2000 (1999)
Draconus: Cult of the Wyrm (2000)
Max Steel (2000)
Triple Play 2001 (2000)
NHL 2K2 (2001)
Triple Play Baseball (2001)
Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer (2002)
Minority Report: Everybody Runs (2002)
Spider-Man (2002)
NHL 2K3 (2002)
Spider-Man 2 (2004)
Call of Duty 2: Big Red One (2005)
Ultimate Spider-Man (2005)
Call of Duty 3 (2006)
Spider-Man 3 (2007) (Only developed the Xbox 360 & PS3 version of the game)
Spider-Man: Web of Shadows - (2008) Wii, PS3, PS2, Xbox 360, Nintendo DS, PC
Quantum of Solace - (2008) PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, Nintendo DS, PC

[laggerific]

I support the outspoken in the work place. It's time for people to rise up in the world and stab their enemies with plastic forks...or at least with sharp turns of phrases.

[Fubl]

Hmm lets see worked on the number 1 baseball game at the time, Sold pretty decent numbers on all the spidey games. Third rate is right:confused:.....Die by the sword was ahead of its time also... oh well sure their games arent for everyone but hey thats the reason everyone has opinions

[Snarboo]

I like how the community manager said "You haven't worked on previous CoD's" when Treyarch actually has. Three of them, in fact, including WaW.

While I can understand his feelings about the franchise, this sort of behaviour is unprofessional and uncalled for. Any frustration should be forwarded to Activision, who are the ones that have decided to handle the property with studio rotation and yearly releases.

[Snarboo]

D'oh, I just noticed that this was directed at Activision, namely the producer. Treyarch really has nothing to do with this rant.

Now I just wish I could edit my last post. :/

[heyitsjohn]

Ohh when the workplace spills over onto the internet. The complete lack of tact aside, I think Robert has a good point about the other dev house needing to stay in their own lane and start pimping their own game.

Revel in the absurdity!

[Darcydian]

All they've done is basically reskinned another game to be World War 2. If CoD4 was as open and moddable as the source team and un-paid community MoD team would have done this ages ago and released it for free.

[Panthera]

Die by the Sword (1998)
Die by the Sword: Limb from Limb (1998) (Expansion Pack)
Spider-Man (2002)
Spider-Man 2 (2004)
Call of Duty 3 (2006)

Say what you will about them, but these games were fantastic.

[Electro]

All they've done is basically reskinned another game to be World War 2. If CoD4 was as open and moddable as the source team and un-paid community MoD team would have done this ages ago and released it for free.

Hey everyone, we've got a resident game development expert here!

Get real man. World at War was in development for years. They made a full single player campaign, full co-op, a zombie mode, added in a flamethrower, all new weapons, new perks, new multiplayer maps, vehicles which work in multiplayer, and the new "prestige" mode of levelling once you hit 65.

But yeah, I'd certainly put my faith in some mod team to do all of that. (sarcasm)

[NeoNecro]

I'm glad this guy went off like this, I refuse to think of this game as a Call of Duty, these guys are leeching off the well of goodness that Infinity Ward drilled and acting like they're aren't when it's been publically pointed out (ref: earlier this year when Activision announced officially that they would continue trading the series AND the source code apparently, between Treyarch and Infinity Ward)
Activision can suck a big one on this one, and Treyarch needs to explore a little thing called respect and show some to the people who even made it possible for you to pay for the toilet paper you use to wipe your ass after producing this peice of shit.

I agree, this should be both directed towards treyarch and activision. treyarch seems to want to compare their game to CoD4 and act as if its equal if not better then CoD4 which pisses me right off. You can't make a crappy mod and then act as if your the shit! btw CoD3 was just above average it pretty much filled in my time until IW made cod4. Treyarch doesn't have anything else that was nearly as good as CoD3.

[Electro]

I agree, this should be both directed towards treyarch and activision. treyarch seems to want to compare their game to CoD4 and act as if its equal if not better then CoD4 which pisses me right off. You can't make a crappy mod and then act as if your the shit! btw CoD3 was just above average it pretty much filled in my time until IW made cod4. Treyarch doesn't have anything else that was nearly as good as CoD3.

Treyarch has been in the mix of Call of Duty games since the name Call of Duty came to be. Why does it piss you off that World at War is being compared to COD4 as an equal or perhaps better than? It offers more all around, on top of everything COD4 had.

World at War is not a crappy mod, actually it's potentially the best Call of Duty game I've played to date based off multiplayer alone, and that's only up to level 40 on three maps without any of the late game perks and abilities. When you factor in everything else, it's a no brainer that this is going to be no doubt the best Call of Duty game to come out of Treyarch's offices.

No matter how you look at it, Rob Bowling screwed up and he's most likely going to pay the price for it. He made this a huge public matter, acted extremely unprofessional when he is supposed to represent the series, and attacked a man who is a big part of getting the bills paid at Infinity. I'd expect that he may be facing a pink slip as soon as Monday.

Btw, perhaps you missed it, but Playstation Magazine gave World at War a 10/10.

[Acidpoptart]

Seriously people, chill the fuck out. Stop trashing a game that has not come out yet and the great people who worked on it. I spent a summer at Treyarch, and let me tell you, these are hard working people who love games. Activision constantly tells them what they can and cannot do, and they have to make it work.

This is not just some little mod. Do you have any idea how many games are built upon existing engines? But why do you not bitch about those? These guys want their game to be a huge success and to be bigger and better than CoD4. I can understand IW being protective of their baby, and they probably dont like seeing others get successful because of what they did before them, but stop with the damn Treyarch bashing. If you dont like them, dont buy their games.

No one wants to log onto their favorite gaming site and see the project they worked on for the past two years get trashed.

[snubber]

This dude is going to need a new job.

[Dirty Harry]

From treyarch,
Call of Duty 2: Big Red One (2005)
Ultimate Spider-Man (2005)
Call of Duty 3 (2006)

annnnnnnd....

From Infinity Ward
Call of Duty (2003)
Call of Duty 2 (2005)
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (2007)

Personally i find the Infinity ward makes the better product that is more memorable in the long term, Treyarchs games are alright but pale in comparison to Infinity wards idea of what CoD is.

[Electro]

Well if you entirely judge quality of games by the past works of a developer, then none of you should be even considering buy The Conduit for the Wii. Oh wait, plenty of people seem interested in that one.

Treyarch has put out some pretty decent stuff, perhaps not as good as Call of Duty 4 at present, but World at War is going to take the cake for sure.

[Darcydian]

This is not just some little mod. Do you have any idea how many games are built upon existing engines? But why do you not bitch about those? These guys want their game to be a huge success and to be bigger and better than CoD4. I can understand IW being protective of their baby, and they probably dont like seeing others get successful because of what they did before them, but stop with the damn Treyarch bashing. If you dont like them, dont buy their games.

No one wants to log onto their favorite gaming site and see the project they worked on for the past two years get trashed.

Okay okay, little harsh maybe, but it does seem that they simply modded CoD4 and added a WW2 theme, single player aside (which I did not buy CoD4) the multiplayer element, just seems identical, heck they even used the same perks. Too me it just seems to "in on the coat-tails" to be worth bragging about, especially when the two games are used in the same sentence constantly when promoting WaW.

[Acidpoptart]

..., just seems identical, heck they even used the same perks. Too me it just seems to "in on the coat-tails" to be worth bragging about, especially when the two games are used in the same sentence constantly when promoting WaW.

Fair enough. There are quite a bit of similarities between the two games, and I am sure that was done for business reasons ("People loved it, so if we take it out/change it too much they will complain and not buy our game!"). CoD4 was pretty different, but lets remember it was the first CoD to really try to be different. CoD2 was a lot like CoD1. CoD3 (a treyarch game) was the probably the most different before CoD4, with its vehicles and changes to multiplayer AND it was developed in 9 months.

I am not even sure I will be buying CoD5, so I am not just some fan boy or anything... But it should be noted that Activision has turned CoD into an annual series, and Treyarch had been working on CoD5 a year before CoD4 was released. With such a release cycle, it is hard to adjust in time for release based on how the other game did. Not trying to justify anything, just kinda interesting.

I am done being a prick :P

[Darcydian]

Fair enough. There are quite a bit of similarities between the two games, and I am sure that was done for business reasons ("People loved it, so if we take it out/change it too much they will complain and not buy our game!"). CoD4 was pretty different, but lets remember it was the first CoD to really try to be different. CoD2 was a lot like CoD1. CoD3 (a treyarch game) was the probably the most different before CoD4, with its vehicles and changes to multiplayer AND it was developed in 9 months.



See I can appreciate the need to keep things the same when a series is succesfull, no harm no foul there. I just see this being touted as "Treyarch's game" and it will probably do very well. But all it is, is a content update. The engine is the same, the controls will be the same, the most fantastic xbox multiplayer experience i've ever had has been left unchanged, the stable network code, the match making, the perk system. All of these things to me are what made the game. And all were made possible because of Infinity Ward, and it has got to hurt to see your IP and code which you have actively fought to keep propriaterilly yours (even after WaW) being taken from you and given to another team to do with as they please, (Good AND Bad) by the guy trying to make the money.

[Snarboo]

See I can appreciate the need to keep things the same when a series is succesfull, no harm no foul there. I just see this being touted as "Treyarch's game" and it will probably do very well. But all it is, is a content update. The engine is the same, the controls will be the same, the most fantastic xbox multiplayer experience i've ever had has been left unchanged, the stable network code, the match making, the perk system. But it is Treyarch's game. And honestly, I don't get the whole "just a CoD 4 mod" argument, given just about every sequal is guilty of this. Nobody called Halo 2 or Halo 3 "just a Halo mod", and I doubt anyone will call CoD 6 "just a CoD 4 mod", so I really think it's a bad argument to make for a game most of us haven't played.

I'm honestly not sure where all the ill will for Treyarch stems from. I own Big Red One for the Gamecube because I liked it, and I thought CoD 3 on the Wii was an excellent addition to the series. I'm even looking forward to CoD 5 because Treyarch is porting it to the Wii almost in its entirety, which Infinity Ward didn't seem much interested in doing for CoD 4.

This rant wasn't even directed towards them, but an Activision Producer. The only reason Treyarch entered the argument is because people dislike them. So I really think people need to lay off Treyarch here for once. I'm sure they are just as thrilled about having their game constantly compared to CoD 4, as though their game isn't good enough.

[Judas]

Perhaps a little cheese with your whine sir?

In the red corner......

I get a kick out of this. I'd like to see more colorful banter please.

Anyone taking bets?

[dr_wily]

huge fan of cod4

huge fan of the beta cod waw.. i wish i had more time to level.. i have dreams about it.. its damn good.

they have an agreement to swap developers over the franchise.. thats just a part of life..

i agree about his rage regarding being wrong though about differences, makes him look dumb.

.. but as for comparisions.. thats the whole point.. cod4 is an awesome game, sold a ton, and they are trying to use that momentum.. its a no brainer.

the main reason i dled the beta for this is because i enjoyed the franchise so much.. why cant they be compared??

[Limech]

Did everybody read that wrong or only me?

I.e. he ranted at the guy from Activision, not Treyarch.
In other words, the Activision guy keeps bringing up CoD4 when discussing CoD5 and comparing the two.

All he's saying (as far as I can tell) is: stop doing that. CoD5 is a great game and can stand on its own, stop comparing it to CoD4 (goty) and stop talking about gun damage concepts you have no clue of.

It seemed to me he was actually defending Treyarch.

[Returner]

I'm glad this guy went off like this, I refuse to think of this game as a Call of Duty, these guys are leeching off the well of goodness that Infinity Ward drilled and acting like they're aren't when it's been publically pointed out (ref: earlier this year when Activision announced officially that they would continue trading the series AND the source code apparently, between Treyarch and Infinity Ward)
Activision can suck a big one on this one, and Treyarch needs to explore a little thing called respect and show some to the people who even made it possible for you to pay for the toilet paper you use to wipe your ass after producing this peice of shit.

Don't bash Treyarch they don't have a choice they have to make what ever Activision tells them to make.

[Demo_Boy]

Almost certainly the producer has no idea how the weapon mechanics in COD 4 work. Shouldn't be comparing things out of his ass.

[Fubl]

If activision was truely like EA was in its bad days the whole studio would have been closed up for comments like this..... </sarcasm maybe>

[Kapinator]

In the business, a post like that is called a CLM.

Career Limiting Move

Whether or not he loses his job will have to been seen, either way it's still a CLM.

[SuperMonkeyFighter2]

I don't understand the Treyarch anger here. These comments are pointed at the producer on the Activision side. Although, by his credits, it says he did work on CoD4 also.
Sounds like a typical Publisher vs Developer tiff here

[SuperMonkeyFighter2]

Did everybody read that wrong or only me?

I.e. he ranted at the guy from Activision, not Treyarch.
In other words, the Activision guy keeps bringing up CoD4 when discussing CoD5 and comparing the two.

All he's saying (as far as I can tell) is: stop doing that. CoD5 is a great game and can stand on its own, stop comparing it to CoD4 (goty) and stop talking about gun damage concepts you have no clue of.

It seemed to me he was actually defending Treyarch.

Damn my lack of an Edit button ... you nailed it.

There are many times where Publisher Producers like to take credit for the work on the dev side and in decisions they had no hand in. This seems like one of those cases

[Isamura]

It's not that he vocalized his disagreements, it's that he reams the guy by calling him a douche and using expletives. This guy had to have been drunk posting, and even though it's his personal blog, he references his job quite a bit so there will be quite a bit of blow back regarding his career. What a dumb ass.

[Mojopin]

Why do you guys keep referring to CoD: World at War as CoD5? It's clearly labeled "World at War" for a reason. This is no CoD5 and I'm pretty sure Infinity Ward will be making CoD5 regardless of any hissyfits thrown on the internets...

[Mr. Lake]

"See I can appreciate the need to keep things the same when a series is succesfull, no harm no foul there. I just see this being touted as "Treyarch's game" and it will probably do very well. But all it is, is a content update. The engine is the same, the controls will be the same, the most fantastic xbox multiplayer experience i've ever had has been left unchanged, the stable network code, the match making, the perk system. All of these things to me are what made the game. And all were made possible because of Infinity Ward, and it has got to hurt to see your IP and code which you have actively fought to keep propriaterilly yours (even after WaW) being taken from you and given to another team to do with as they please, (Good AND Bad) by the guy trying to make the money."

"All they've done is basically reskinned another game to be World War 2. If CoD4 was as open and moddable as the source team and un-paid community MoD team would have done this ages ago and released it for free."

"The CoD trade mark was not purchased by Activision the entire company was IP included. They obviously have the right to do with it whatever they want, but giving that stellar IP to a third rate developer so you can churn a new one out every year is a fucking hack job and puts you in a position to try and be the next EA. It's all about the money, which is why i'm so pissed, they're taking the CoD namesake and pimping it out for some meager cash at the expense of their own image."

Do you think people at Treyarch LIKE having to crank out another COD title one at a time? The answer is "no", but it's their job and they have families to feed so they're going to keep doing whatever ATVI Corporate tells them to. If that means "make sure we have a new COD title on store shelves every Christmas, we don't care how much time you actually need to make it quality" then yes, that's what they're going to do.

Don't weep for IW, those lucky jerks get every break in the world from ATVI... weep for the people stuck in Bobby Kotick's sulfer mines who had to spend 80-hours a week making a game for 5 platforms in under 11 months. You don't know what kind of giraffe-shit-crazyness goes down between ATVI, IW, and Treyarch - you're just a consumer who thinks they have some insight. Calling Treyarch a third-rate developer is like calling a cake "baked" just after turning on the oven... there's no sufficient time to actually finish the intended product... and if you have a problem with "reskinning another game to be World War 2", well then I hope you never buy Gears of War 2 or Fallout 3 because man... you will be dissapointed.

If it's that big an issue to you that it feels like the COD franchise is being milked and you don't like the poor quality of the games, I suggest trying to solve the problem yourself. You can try and get as many people as possible to not buy the latest COD and prove ATVI wrong (which is if you put an empty box with a new COD sticker on store shelves every Christmas people will buy it no matter what), or - here's an idea - write a letter to Actvision and tell them you'd like their development teams to have the time necessary to make QUALITY games. I'm sure both of those strategies will work out just fine.

Eat your cake.

[riposte101]

This is the exact stuff you keep internally. Send an e-mail directly to the offender if you have to and not air it out in a public forum. This completely unprofessional.

[Gedd]

If it makes this guy feel any better, i'm one of the folks that only buys the IW versions of CoD. Just like SoF, I will only touch it if Raven makes it (which will probably never happen again)