360 Custom Music Not Always Available

[bapenguin]

It appears what was one of the biggest features of the XBox 360, custom music anytime you want it in any game, might not be 100% accurate. According to Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=61591), developers have the option to block custom music in their games if they so choose.

Speaking at Atari's GoPlay event in Lyon last month, Alone in the Dark developer Eden Studios said it would not be allowing players to stream their own music as it would spoil the ambience of its horror-themed action game.
Booo. Who cares if it spoils the ambience...that's up to the USER to do what they want. Taking away features is just lame.

[Taco]

I was going to say, "Yeah, but what cruddy developer would actually take advantage of that.".

Then I finished reading the post. Makes no sense to me.

[Roc Ingersol]

If I want to listen to the Alabama Song while I'm blasting away zombies, that's my damn choice. They can FOAD.

[11thfinger]

Booo. Who cares if it spoils the ambience...that's up to the USER to do what they want. Taking away features is just lame.

I hope that's a joke. I suppose user freedom is a good thing, but allowing a developer to present their art as they desire is also a good thing. I'm all for replacing the shit soundtracks EA packages with their games, but I certainly have no desire to play Call of Cthulu with some rock or electronic music blaring over the well-crafted ambient soundscape.

[fitbabits]

Allard and company giveth only for some developers to taketh away! Leave it up to us, the gamers, to decide.

[Jetherik]

It makes sense to me. Often times it is the music that helps make horror what it is. The apprehension that starts when the music becomes suspensful can be critical. You can't have the same type of suspense when you have happy music playing. For most games, it won't matter, but for a few, it will. Then again, if you don't like, don't buy the game. And listening to Alabama always made me want to kill Zombies...

[bean19]

Being able to reference a game's music for building ambience is a big deal in making your game enjoyable.

I think custom music is a good idea only for multiplayer games, or mindless games. We shouldn't be allowed to play music over the audio portion of someone's work of art. Would you listen to My Chemical Romance while watching a scary movie?

Really happy that developers can turn this feature off. Score one for "games as art".

[bapenguin]

I hope that's a joke. I suppose user freedom is a good thing, but allowing a developer to present their art as they desire is also a good thing. I'm all for replacing the shit soundtracks EA packages with their games, but I certainly have no desire to play Call of Cthulu with some rock or electronic music blaring over the well-crafted ambient soundscape.

They still do present it the way they want...but it also gives the user the option to expierence the way THEY want.

[Taco]

I hope that's a joke. I suppose user freedom is a good thing, but allowing a developer to present their art as they desire is also a good thing. I'm all for replacing the shit soundtracks EA packages with their games, but I certainly have no desire to play Call of Cthulu with some rock or electronic music blaring over the well-crafted ambient soundscape.


Then don't? Personally I don't think I'd ever replace in game music in most games, but that doesn't mean I think everyone else should be forced to follow suit.

[Tricky Thumb]

Sorry guys but if a developer wants to force you to listen to their music I'd say it's their right to force it upon you first and your right to have custom music second.

Besides you can just turn off the game music and play whatever the hell you want on your stereo if it's THAT big of a deal.

[UnderHero5]

I agree that the music can sometiems be VERY important to the atmosphere in a game, but taking away the option is rediculous.

have it off by default, but don't take it away completely. Leave it as an option. It's nice having the options and could actually lead to more replay value. Imagine beating Resident Evil 4 with it's normal ambience/music then going back through and playing your scariest parts with the Benny Hill music playing. lol, that would be a riot and could lead to some extra replay value.

People can always just mute the music and turn on their stereo anyway... but why make them go through the trouble when it's possible to just play it using the Xbox itself?

[Abednigo]

Let someone listen to Clay Aiken while they're getting eaten alive if they want. Sheesh!

[Knite]

yeah but we're talking choice here.
I generally would choose to listen to the built in music, but why deny me otherwise? It makes no sense. You can still experience the game THEY want you to if you decide to. Or have your own experience. Not a big deal in the overall scheme, but I can understand the "huh??" quotient.

[Deathbane27]

What if I've got my own creepy music I want to play that works better for me than yours does?

Thanks a lot.

[DigitalFirefly]

Yeah I wanna listen to the Benny Hill song while blasting zombies or riding in a warthog.

[Teddeh]

"Would you listen to My Chemical Romance while watching a scary movie?"

Being forced to listen to those noise polluters would make any movie scary. :p

"Really happy that developers can turn this feature off. Score one for "games as art"."

I'd be happier if the game gave you an "Are you sure?" type alert, possibly with a "Are you REALLY sure? The game won't be the same." on trying to start custom tracks.

[EdLima]

Okay, so if this is such a great idea, then why stop at music? Why not replace the ingame textures with your own custom textures? Why not replace the included world geometry with your own?

At what point are you no longer customizing your gameplay experience and are you messing with the game itself? What about games, particulary tense games, horror, dark action, etc., that utilize dynamic music that changes as the gameplay conditions change? Is that whole level of immersion just lost then?

At what point is it cool or not cool to fuck with someone else's art?

[Tricky Thumb]

Try looking at it from the developer point of view:

They're making a horror game, so why should they bother with the "option" of letting people play 50 Cent while playing their game in which they spent so much effort, money and time on?

Futhermore, why should the composers of the game's music even bother if that option is there? Why should any person put in 100% of their effort on a soundtrack if it could simply be switched to the latest Gwen Stefani abhoration?

[Scull]

I think that on the first play through for some games, having the music as intended is vital, but after you beat the game, being able to play with what ever soundtrack you want is fine. It's like watching Jaws without the bah-dup, bah-dup music when the shark attacks, and throwing on Enya instead. It just doesn't work the first time you see it.

[bean19]

Teddeh - you can hit the quote key below posts to get the quote boxes to automatically come up in your reply. Just a hopefully helpful FYI.

We're talking a lot about options. Well, this gives developers options, and in some games it will help keep people from shooting themselves in the foot. What about games that use sound as part of the game? Should people be able to use custom sound while playing Dance Dance Revolution, or Frequency?

Also, I have to say that giving them the option might prove more helpful to the system. You can bet that developers will mostly agree that giving people the custom soundtrack option is to their game's benefit, and the exceptions will be incredibly rare. However, those exceptions will most likely have a damn good reason for it.

The best example given of a problem that could occur is the "2nd playthrough of Resident Evil 4" someone mentioned. Yeah, there could definitely be problems with this, and I think that a lot of developers will just give players the option and let us do what we want for the most part.

Would "Alone in the Dark", "Fatal Frame", or "Resident Evil" be as creepy without the sound or with sound piped in? No, but current gamers can always turn on the stereo if they want to while they play, so why limit their options of doing so with just one device? Seems like that argument works both ways.

Honestly, I don't think this will have much impact on games at all, because I think that only a small minority of games will choose to not allow custom soundtracks.

[Serapth]

The other big possibility is the game authors actually REQUIRE the music to be there. Ive played a few suspense type games that algorithmically manipulate the sound based off the emotions they want to invoke. So, if the want to create suspense they could subtly raise or lower the volume or tempo of the music to match the scene.

Granted, they could still do this with custom soundtracks with some god damned wierd results! :)

In the long run though, im ok with giving the developer the ability to override this. The simple fact they ( the devs ) have to do extra work to do the override means they generally will have a pretty good reason for doing it.

[UnderHero5]

Hate to tell you guys, but if a game has a "Music Volume" slider in the options, the player ALREADY HAS the option to disable the in-game music that constributes so much to art and that was worked on SO HARD by the composers.

And listening to your own music in a game is a hell of a lot different than re-fucking-texturing a game.

I've listened to my own music while playing games since the 16 bit era, as I'm sure many others have. If someone doesn't like the music in a game, they will listen to their own or turn the music off. Are you gunna cry because I mute some games in-game music?

It's OUR OPTION. When's the last time you played a game where you couldn't turn the music down in game?

Does having that option (which almost every game has) make you use it?
Oh, whats that? It doesn't?

If we can't use custom music in games because of the "Art" excuse then they had better take the music volume adjustment out of the options for the same reason.
Oh, and take out the option to remap your controls while you're at it, because you're not playing as the dev intended.

Make sure you're in a soundproof room too, wouldn't want outside noises DESTROYING the developers ART!!

See, I can be extreme and nonsensical too.

[disc]

'Give the user the choice.'

Why?

[novicius]

Really happy that developers can turn this feature off. Score one for "games as art".
Agreed.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters. Eat me.

[Citizen Philip]

'Give the user the choice.'

Why?

It's my right to ruin the game I buy, by listening to Backstreet Boys while blasting away Zombies. A developer telling me "they know better" had better follow-up with a "and if you don't like it, we'll...<FITB>"

[frederec]

Okay, so if this is such a great idea, then why stop at music? Why not replace the ingame textures with your own custom textures? Why not replace the included world geometry with your own?

At what point are you no longer customizing your gameplay experience and are you messing with the game itself? What about games, particulary tense games, horror, dark action, etc., that utilize dynamic music that changes as the gameplay conditions change? Is that whole level of immersion just lost then?

At what point is it cool or not cool to fuck with someone else's art?

When I read this I couldn't help but think of playing Doom 3 with the flashlight image replaced by a big glowing Hello Kitty face. It almost made me actually want to play through that game. Running around with that shining on surfaces and monsters was awesome.

[Serapth]

When I read this I couldn't help but think of playing Doom 3 with the flashlight image replaced by a big glowing Hello Kitty face. It almost made me actually want to play through that game. Running around with that shining on surfaces and monsters was awesome.

Weird... meet frederec. Frederec meet Weird... oh wait, you know each other? Ah, your related... I see now.

[Gamewatcher]

This is a slippery slope. Either you give the gamer choice, or you don't. Otherwise, some developers will abuse this and take away your choice even if it doesn't affect the ambience of the game. Perhaps because they'll get more marketing dollars from the record companies they're licensing their tracks from. Or maybe they'll flip a coin. Who knows.

Look at the save game issue on the original Xbox. Some game saves were locked so they couldn't be backed up to a memory card. Sure, some developers had a damn good reason to this - they wanted to reduce the possibility for online cheating (which is noble and all, but modders can make quick work of this limitation). Others seem purely arbitrary, like Transworld Snowboarding and Otagi. (See my recent blog on this issue for a fuller list of save-locked games) (http://www.gamestay.com/categories/blog/2005/10/21.html)

If locked soundtracks are permitted, what's to stop all or most developers from choosing it? Is Microsoft going to decide which developers have a valid case for disabling it?

I will probably choose the default in-game soundtrack most of the time anyway (and I'd like that to be easy to do). But if I find that it just stinks, sure I'll switch to music on my hard drive or iPod. That's what Microsoft claimed would be allowed, and that's what I want. Not some of the time, whenever I want.

Otherwise, the 360 isn't really about customization and choice. And we'll be back to turning down the game soundtrack and turning up our stereos.

[gsmith]

I hope they also find a way to disable the mute button.

[Ridlin]

Okay that does it. I have to rethink whether or not I want a 360 now.

[EternalGamer]

If game music is done right, it is absolutely necessary part of the narrative. This "plug and play" trend will actually cripple developers from moving forward with things like creating dynamic sound integration. Should the user be allowed to fuck up this experience if they want? Absolutely. Let the blare whatever they like through their STEREO, or use cheat codes out the wazoo with the Gamegenie etc, but don't expect the game developers to actually CATER to this type of butchering to their product.

Allowing users to put in custom soundtracks should no more be an obligatory option for developers to supply than supplying the user with infinite lives and the option to skip to the ending cinema before playing the game. I never hear anyone claim that it sucks that developers don't let them the freedom to just skip to any point of the game they want or have infiinite lives/health in the name of "consumer choice." Developers should not be blanketly forced to compromise their product anymore than film creators should have to put up with people sanitizing and editing their films.

Dan

[Serapth]

Okay that does it. I have to rethink whether or not I want a 360 now.

I really really really hope that was sarcasm, or perhaps there is a good reason for your nickname.

[DoubleUranium]

I will be shocked if all EA games don't disable this so we're forced to keep looking at their crappy EA Trax. Damnit.

[Roc Ingersol]

Games as art? That's a weak damn argument.

Should a Francis Ford Coppola be able to ensure I'm not ruining the 'tone' of one of his movies by listening to bubblegum pop?
Should a Hitchcock be able to disable my remote's pause button during the tension buildup?
Should a Monet be able to ensure my appropriate corrective lenses are on, and i'm not wearing any novelty specs that might ruin my appreciation for his mastery of color balance?

No. They sold their art. Their part is done. If the consumer is a dirty philistine and wants their own soundtrack, just shrug your shoulders and cry into your buckets of money.

If game developers want to maintain total creative control over how the consumer experiences the game, then they should never ship it.

[Serapth]

Games as art? That's a weak damn argument.

Should a Francis Ford Coppola be able to ensure I'm not ruining the 'tone' of one of his movies by listening to bubblegum pop?
Should a Hitchcock be able to disable my remote's pause button during the tension buildup?

AH, you seem to have missed the point nicely. Your not doing an apples to apples comparisions. With the XBox 360 you can still listen to music, just not through the xbox. Ditto, you can still pause the game, flip the channel do whatever you want.

This is content, and the difference is that a game is an interactive medium, and thus follows different guidelines. The closest anology I can think of to a game is to a concert or sports event, and even those two anologies suck ( as gaming is pretty much a unique medium ). That said, you go to a concert and the band *DOES* have the right to restrict your actions at the entertainment *YOU* paid for. They can prevent crowd surfing, public nudity, whatever... they will piss of fans by doing so, but it is within their right.

Yet, even that last example is like comparing a grapefruit to a sausage. Pointless.

Games are different, so many anologies just dont work.

[if76]

Clearly the developer puts restrictions on what a player can do....thousands of them. You can't walk through walls, live forever, or enter certain rooms without the red key. The player allows the developer to put restrictions on his experience to make the game more fun. There have been plenty of times when I've wished I could take the easy way out in a game but because the developer wouldn't let me, the experience was more rewarding. I think this extends to music.

[EternalGamer]

Games as art? That's a weak damn argument.

Should a Francis Ford Coppola be able to ensure I'm not ruining the 'tone' of one of his movies by listening to bubblegum pop?
Should a Hitchcock be able to disable my remote's pause button during the tension buildup?
Should a Monet be able to ensure my appropriate corrective lenses are on, and i'm not wearing any novelty specs that might ruin my appreciation for his mastery of color balance?

No. They sold their art. Their part is done. If the consumer is a dirty philistine and wants their own soundtrack, just shrug your shoulders and cry into your buckets of money.


You are right that those artists don't have the right to limit what you do with their final product but you better believe there is no way in hell they would ship their films to theatres and let the head of the theatre choose what music to play with it. And many directors have went to limits to control the final experience of their works. Fredrico Fellini made sure that his last three films were never released on home video because he thought it was an inferior medium to view them. David Lynch made sure the DVD version of Mullholand Drive shipped without chapter selections because he wanted it to always be seen as one continious film. Both of these artists were well within their rights to do so.

As I said, if you want to butcher the experience with external resources, go for it, nobody can legally stop you. But the developer shouldn't be forced to assist you in it.

Dan

[EdLima]

Are you gunna cry because I mute some games in-game music?

What?

When's the last time you played a game where you couldn't turn the music down in game?

Doom3 and Quake4 would be the first ones to come to mind.

See, I can be extreme and nonsensical too.

You seem nice.

[Bushi]

....and that is a lost sale.

The developers have a right to present their work, but once I buy it they have should have no say on how interact with it. Locking features is an insult and can and should hit them where it counts.

[UnderHero5]

What you guys seem to be missing is this.
Sure games are an art, but they are (and this comes FIRST for most consumers) a form of entertainment.

Me, changing the music playing MY game will effect NO ONE but myself.
If I chose to do that, and ENJOY it more than I would the normal music, give me a real excuse why I shouldn't do it?

Not because "it's art"... that crowd surfing stuff has a drastic difference... IT EFFECTS EVERYONE THERE.
Me, playing a game alone in my room with whatever music I want will effect no one for me. If it was "ruining" my experience I'd shut it off and listen to the normal in-game music.

The whole thing with this feature is that it would play continuously over any game you want. You'd hit the little green X button thing, bring up the menu, and have the Xbox (not the game) play music overtop of your game. It wouldn't permanently change the music in your game. It would just PLAY MUSIC.
It's just a more convenient way than turning on your stereo and piping your own music in.

Why limit that option. And the whole "art" excuse is bullcrap.

You're telling me that NFS: Underground is ART??....

......

There's an amount of art that goes into a game, and I LOVE games and appreciate what developers do (some)... but MOST are not on the same artistic level as a painting or something along those lines.

[aversion2k]

Okay, so if this is such a great idea, then why stop at music? Why not replace the ingame textures with your own custom textures? Why not replace the included world geometry with your own?

At what point are you no longer customizing your gameplay experience and are you messing with the game itself? What about games, particulary tense games, horror, dark action, etc., that utilize dynamic music that changes as the gameplay conditions change? Is that whole level of immersion just lost then?

At what point is it cool or not cool to fuck with someone else's art?

I agree 100%

[EternalGamer]

UnderHero5, you are very much right that most games are nowhere near the craftsmanship quality to where I would be willing to call them art. However, this type of mandatory customization prevents them ever being able to work towards that end. The reason to "limit the option" is to ultimately create a more wholistic and rewarding experience for the user.

[RMan]

They still do present it the way they want...but it also gives the user the option to expierence the way THEY want.
I think a good middleground for this sort of thing is to allow the user to change the music after the game is completed once (or at least a good portion of the game is complete). Otherwise, many gamers would use their normal prefered music on every game and thus suffer a lessened experience in some cases, especially the ones where the music is used for gameplay cues, not just atmosphere. After all, the primary reason that people want to replace a game's music is when the game's music sucks or is not to their tastes, and there's little way to tell this without actually playing it.

Especially the first time through, the user doesn't know that the experience isn't what they want, to let the user alter the experience under the assumtion that the experience offered by the game developer isn't good enough certainly displays little faith in the game developer.

[The Great Gatsby]

Okay that does it. I have to rethink whether or not I want a 360 now.

What a tool. If THIS is a reason for not getting a 360, you are obviously part of what is wrong with the gaming industry.

[novicius]

(Psst, the Xbox has had games that have disabled personal soundtracks since it was released.)

[Kelegacy]

I'm never going to use the custom soundtracks thing, barring a game like Grand Theft Auto that flawlessly uses radio stations to warrant my MP3's bursting into the gameworld. RPGs will never use a custom soundtrack in my household. Sports games, probably, but only if they integrate the music correctly. I don't want to canter around a medieval world with Mudvayne playing in the background. It would ruin immersion. SotC had a great soundtrack and I couldn't fathom fucking with it. Game music is fine for anything NOT sports/racing. But again, it all depends on how it is integrated into the game.

And if you are one of those people that likes a lack of immersion in a game, you must be inbred and a blight on humanity. A pox on you.

[TKO]

Damn right UnderHero5 ...Fools advocating restrictions on custom music: You lose nothing from custom tracks being there. You don't have to use them. And hey.. news flash: some games come out with *crap music*. If my only choice is crap music, hell, my choice is not to buy the game. Keep your 'art.' I want entertainment.

If I'm not happy with this I should turn the music down and put on a CD? WTF? Are you stupid? What CD player? I have a *ton* of CD's, two stacks, reaching to the roof. They are ripped once and never played. I click 'play' on my PC or mp3-player and get a random selection that doesn't repeat for *two weeks*.

Change CD's every 3/4 hour? Have to adjust two volumes? Pause the game *and* stereo to answer the phone/door/whatever? Keep your stone-age vision of the future. I don't want it.

[Busted_Astromech]

What a tool. If THIS is a reason for not getting a 360, you are obviously part of what is wrong with the gaming industry.

I'm almost positive he was joking, Gatsby.

Personally, I can't see myself ever using the custom soundtrack option unless it's a game with licensed tracks, where I'll always prefer my jazz to some lame pop song. So yeah, I'd never change the music in a game like this; and if anyone here thinks they would, please, speak up. I have the feeling this is a non-issue for a game like this, in that such a small percentage of people would change the music that it's silly to restrict custom tracks.

Of course, the argument could be made that since no one wants the option it doesn't matter if it's turned off, but one thing you should always, always do is err on the side of freedoms, not restrictions.

And EternalGamer, I don't see how allowing users to change the soundtrack hampers implementation of more advenced game music. As I understand it, the custom soundtrack just plays like any old media player, in a sequential order. It's completely seperated from the game and so all the game needs to do is turn off its music. And if the sound of a game is good, well, not many will be switching it, so what's the problem? All that time you spent developing the revolutionary new adaptive soundtrack system is only marginally reduced in value, because a tiny fraction of your audience isn't enjoying it.

I realize I'm just assuming that almost no one would turn off ambient music, so anyone who would do such a thing, please correct me so we have a more accurate handle on how many would disable in-game music.

Fredrico Fellini made sure that his last three films were never released on home video because he thought it was an inferior medium to view them. David Lynch made sure the DVD version of Mullholand Drive shipped without chapter selections because he wanted it to always be seen as one continious film. Both of these artists were well within their rights to do so.
How does that make for a better product, though? I suppose one can argue that something that may lessen the experience, custom soundtracks, should never be a forced implementation, but the alternative I would argue is worse.

We all saw how many games used the custom soundtracks feature on the first Xbox. Standardized implementation is the only way to get a decent implementation, and it does far more good than it does harm.

[wudi]

I think most gamers are smart enough to know when custom soundtracks are appropriate and when they're not. Obviously, they're necessary for anything EA cranks out. Not to mention games like Ultimate Spiderman. I don't think much immersion is being lost if you were to replace the disposable techno it uses with, well, anything else.

I guess what I'm basically getting at is they should trust the user base enough to know when we should be listening to a well-conceived OST or when it's ok to replace their crap with our crap.

[Serapth]

What really makes me laugh my ass of by the people that are outraged by this issue... Let me ask you a two questions. I think once you are done answering them you will get over it and move back to reality land....

1) How many previous consoles gave you the ability to hook up to external media devices to stream *your* music into *your* games?
2) How many previous consoles had the ability to implement custom soundtracks in the first place?
3) How many previous consoles prevented developers from blocking custom soundtracks.

Here... give you a hint... the answers are 0, 1 and 0.

Man... if you people are getting pissed off about this, just wait what happens if PS3 or Rev dont support custom soundtracks at all, which frankly is a very good possibility! ( Well, the ps3 might... and over time, it would age them like fine wine to better sounding and looking musicians!)

[Busted_Astromech]

I don't expect those systems to implement custom soundtracks. I'm arguing that it's never a bad idea, that weakening said "not bad idea" is dumb, and that standardized implementation is the only way to get the feature to be widely used--it was available but almost never used with the first Xbox.

So no, I'm not really furious, but this is still a bad move. You don't take away options, you grant them.

You're right, Serapth, it's a small issue. I'd compare it to customizable controls. Are they a good thing? Yes. Are they always implemented? No. Even then, it most often doesn't matter. I know that Nintendo never gives the option to change controls, and yet nobody complains. Still, while this lack doesn't make their products worse, it would still be better if they allowed users to set it as they wish.

[Borys]

Sorry bap but I won't support this idea ever in 100%.

Imagine the same applied to cinemas and movies. There's a reason why OSTs are so popular you know. Imagine LOTR with white-trash hip-hop music. Or Schindler's List with Ja-Rule rappin' - I can't. Forced music (or soundtrack) really helps setting the mood. Sport games, racers, yeah go for it, but not adventure games, RPGs, horror games etc.

[screwtape]

From Team Xbox (http://hardware.teamxbox.com/articles/xbox/1144/The-Xbox-360-System-Specifications/p1/) (and a hundred other sites containing the original press release:

Custom playlists in every game
They promised a feature, now they're changing it.

As long as they at least give us the option to turn the music off, I guess I'm fine with all this. I would not have played Burnout 3 if I had to listen to that horrible in-game music.

[Kelegacy]

Sorry bap but I won't support this idea ever in 100%.

Imagine the same applied to cinemas and movies. There's a reason why OSTs are so popular you know. Imagine LOTR with white-trash hip-hop music. Or Schindler's List with Ja-Rule rappin' - I can't. Forced music (or soundtrack) really helps setting the mood. Sport games, racers, yeah go for it, but not adventure games, RPGs, horror games etc.

Hypothetically thinking, I hope custom tracks don't make developers forgo getting top-notch orchestras, composers, or other musicians for their games if they just expect gamers to plug in their own. This is a worst case scenario, though. Already, EA creates nearly no music for their games. They go the easy route and license songs. Weak.

[nonchalance]

At what point is it cool or not cool to fuck with someone else's art?

If I'm fucking with it in a way that doesn't stop other people enjoying it the way you intended, it's -always- cool.

If I want to look at the Mona Lisa through red-blue 3d glasses, I can.
If I want to watch Schindler's List in a room with strobe lights on and techno pumping, I can.
If I want to play Pantera backwards through a shitty stereo, I can.
If I want to play Diablo while listening to Simon and Garfunkel, I can.
If I want to read Robert Frost's poetry while putting on a super-fake Irish accent, I can.
If I want to tear every page out of Lord of the Rings and use it as wallpaper in my fucking toilet, I can.

Once you put your work into the wild, it's fair game, and the consumer can deal with it however they want.

How pretentious.

[crackeriah]

What would happen to Rez, Guitar Hero and DDR if they were REQUIRED to have custom soundtracks? Would those games just not get made at all?

Obviously some games CAN'T have custom soundtracks. Some games shouldn't (Shadow of the Colossus, Lumines), and others should (Burnout). I'm fine letting the developer decide what sort of game they're making. After all, they're the ones who lose out if I don't buy their game because of all the lousy music in it.

[Lactose]

It's OUR OPTION. When's the last time you played a game where you couldn't turn the music down in game?


Infinity Ward games have never allowed the user to selectively disable music. We consider the sound and music to be inextricably tied to the cinematic experience, similar to watching a movie.

Since good music is rare in a video game, its understable that many gamers immediately reach for the music slider, which is why we removed it. I don't think I've ever seen a complaint about it in a forum or review.

[ColdForged]

I think there's a valid "art" argument. That said, if they give one developer the option to not use custom soundtracks for the "integrity of the artist's vision" rationale, they have to give the ability to all developers even if the only reason is "we want them to listen to the licensed music we paid to put in the game." Yes, the EA Trax style of thing. That's the part that stinks.

[Busted_Astromech]

But Lactose, here's the thing: nobody's complained about your lack of a slider. Could this also mean that nobody would have turned it down if they had the option? I think you're overestimating the amount of people who will screw with the presentation.

[Zeal]

Play the game the way it was meant to be played. Replacing its music with your own is taking away from the intended experience.

[bapenguin]

Sorry bap but I won't support this idea ever in 100%.

Imagine the same applied to cinemas and movies. There's a reason why OSTs are so popular you know. Imagine LOTR with white-trash hip-hop music. Or Schindler's List with Ja-Rule rappin' - I can't. Forced music (or soundtrack) really helps setting the mood. Sport games, racers, yeah go for it, but not adventure games, RPGs, horror games etc.

See, here's the thing. Maybe people don't understand how the custom soundtrack function works at the basic level. Developers can write hooks into their code to have certain tracks play at certain times, etc. Pretty much how the NFL/NHL 2k series did it. OR the 360 Dashboard overlay plays it pretty much like putting a CD in or listening to a playlist on an MP3 player. Something a user could do anyway while playing a game on their stereo system.

I like what someone brought up, have a message box pop up when someone tries to play a custom soundtrack. Say, "Are you sure you want to enable custom soundtracks for this title? XYZ is best expierenced with our in game music."

Art form or not, people LOVE to customize their expierence in anyway possible, and to limit the ease the 360 provides for it is just dumb. People that REALLY want to listen to their music while playing, still will, it'll just be a bit more difficult.

What if someone can't stand the LOTR music...it just drives them nuts and they find the game more enjoyable with Jay-Z. That's their perogitive and their choice.

[TKO]

Let me ask you a two questions. I think once you are done answering them you will get over it and move back to reality land....

Hmmm... So your argument is that it wasn't popular in the past, therefore it's not a good idea now? We should have stuck with simple 8-bit beepy synth tracks then?

Sure, custom tracks are not important to you. But this feature is important to me. ..The posts in this thread could suggest it is important to others too.

With the amount of money people seem to be willing to spend on overpriced mp3 players it looks like people like their music a lot, and like to take it everywhere with them. Why not to the console too? If I've just got a new album I want to play to death, why not in the game I'm playing tonight?

If the only answer you have is "because it's not important to me" (or even the developer.) Well, forgive me if that doesn't change the way *I* want to play games.

[Achilles]

People will listen to whatever they want anyway, it’ll just overplay everything because they’ll be blasting it on a boom box or out of their computer speakers. If the developers let the players who don’t want to listen to the music in a game use custom soundtracks, at least the voices and sound effects can still be audible.

On my second run-through of RE4 I turned the volume off and cranked the music on my PC because the music for the game was boring and I was more interested in shooting things with my Tommy gun.

Point is I do it, and it can already be done, all you’re doing is making it more inconvenient to do if you lock out custom soundtracks.

[Achilles]

Sorry bap but I won't support this idea ever in 100%.

Imagine the same applied to cinemas and movies. There's a reason why OSTs are so popular you know. Imagine LOTR with white-trash hip-hop music. Or Schindler's List with Ja-Rule rappin' - I can't. Forced music (or soundtrack) really helps setting the mood. Sport games, racers, yeah go for it, but not adventure games, RPGs, horror games etc.If the music is good enough people won't want to use custom soundtracks instead. But to take away the option so people have to use their PC speakers instead is just lame. People will always be able to listen to whatever music they want while playing a game. Developers who think they can control the conditions under which I play their game can go shove.

Reading the article, if it's true, they're only talking about streaming off of outside sources. If you can still stream the music off your hard drive than this ban on outside music source streaming is absurd, but it becomes much less of a problem.

[EternalGamer]

My biggest problem with pop-culture is general is that it panders too much to the audience and does not at all challenge them to move outside of their comfort zones. I believe that all forms of "entertainment" should attempt to do more than just sedate.

Dan

[bobbler]

I'll keep it short, as I don't fully know how to explain the feeling I got when I read this thread:

Some of you are absolutely nuts.

I'll leave it up to you guys to decide which side are the crazy ones.

[Busted_Astromech]

You're right in that, EternalGamer, but remember, the act of playing the game is a choice. If someone is doesn't 'get' a challenging (conceptually-speaking) game then the ability to change the music won't matter. I understand how you're worried that people are taking the easy way out, but developers should let the audience experience it properly for themselves and not force it. If the package is cohesive and well-executed then not many should want to swap the music, regardless of their tastes (or at least I suppose, lacking any data on this matter).

[bobbler]

What if someone can't stand the LOTR music...it just drives them nuts and they find the game more enjoyable with Jay-Z. That's their perogitive and their choice.


Okay, fuck it. I have to respond.

You know what? thats the developers choice. I don't understand how anyone can think that its their right and it should be a requirement that people can just overwrite the music of the game that the developers often spent a lot of time and money to produce. If you don't like the game soundtrack then don't buy the game -- if you don't like the gameplay, don't buy the game -- if you don't like the graphics, don't buy the game... but DON'T expect to be able to change an integral part of the experience that the developers want you to experience (and when you buy the game you assumingly want to experience as well).

Its insane that an art form or hell, an entertainment medium should magically start coming on the terms of the user, and not on the terms of the creator. This hasn't been a choice for people until a few games on xbox, and now it should be required? Its stupid and should be up to the developer if it is going to happen, just like it is. I'd say if microsoft demanded that this be an option for every game it would be rather insulting to developers who actually spend a lot of time on their game music.

Some people might like the ability to do it, but I'd say most people don't care (sports games are really the only game type I can think of that would benefit from a custom soundtrack, since there is no story... and I imagine every sports game developer would allow it).

I don't mean to attack you Bap, since there are other crazies that seemed to agree with you. But I cannot sit here and watch people claim that they should have the right, because really, you shouldn't. If the developer of the game wants it to happen, more power to them (and I imagine a lot of them will allow such things, but some games shouldn't be tarnished by My Chemical Romance or whatever the hell people listen to now days).

I guess I'm taking this from an art standpoint, and in that respect this is rather offensive.

[Achilles]

Okay, fuck it. I have to respond.

Its insane that an art form or hell, an entertainment medium should magically start coming on the terms of the user, and not on the terms of the creator. This hasn't been a choice for people until a few games on xbox, and now it should be required? Its stupid and should be up to the developer if it is going to happen, just like it is. I'd say if microsoft demanded that this be an option for every game it would be rather insulting to developers who actually spend a lot of time on their game music.Okay, so you've never listened to other music while you were playing a game than that which was provided by the developer I assume. You're entrenched in the experience.

What if you really love the gameplay but the music sucks? Shouldn't you be able to listen to something that you like so you can continue to enjoy the game? Because you will anyway, by turning down the volume on your TV.

What if it's your 400th hour of Counter Strike 3 and you're really freaking sick of the ambient rain on Amazon 3. Should you not be able to change it because it's part of some developer's idea that you should have to spend 100 hours of your life listening to the birds chirp? Screw that.

[The Iron Weasel]

I PRESENT EXHIBIT A: KINGDOM UNDER FIRE: THE CRUSADERS! That game was CRYING for custom soundtracks! (and I know it was a option highlighted on the back of the box, but I could never get it to work) That game woulda been 10x better if i could have loaded up some of my tuneage (you know real metal, not the butt-rock they played in that game).

[nonchalance]

What if it's your 400th hour of Counter Strike 3 and you're really freaking sick of the ambient rain on Amazon 3. Should you not be able to change it because it's part of some developer's idea that you should have to spend 100 hours of your life listening to the birds chirp? Screw that.

You don't have that option.
Mods are not in the developer's original vision, and are not allowed.
No Counterstrike. No Garry's Mod.
They ruin immersion, and change the game from what it was to something different.

I guess I'm taking this from an art standpoint, and in that respect this is rather offensive.

Only if you're a precious little arty twat.
If your art can't stand for itself, that's a weakness in your art, not in the guy who's not interested in experiencing it your special little way.

Most people will only turn on the custom soundtrack after the game's music has first failed them, and the people who will turn it on straight away?
They don't give a fuck about your art anyway.
Sorry.

[bobbler]

Okay, so you've never listened to other music while you were playing a game than that which was provided by the developer I assume. You're entrenched in the experience.

What if you really love the gameplay but the music sucks? Shouldn't you be able to listen to something that you like so you can continue to enjoy the game? Because you will anyway, by turning down the volume on your TV.

What if it's your 400th hour of Counter Strike 3 and you're really freaking sick of the ambient rain on Amazon 3. Should you not be able to change it because it's part of some developer's idea that you should have to spend 100 hours of your life listening to the birds chirp? Screw that.

Sure I've done it, but I honestly don't think developers should be forced to pander to such things -- its stupid. If we wan't to change the way the game plays then we should do so not at the expense of what a developer wants to do with the game -- they shouldn't be forced to allow the option if they don't want to. I'd surely be insulted if MS came up to me and said "you can't depend on your users listening to your music, because they are required to have the ability to play their own music". It goes against the whole art aspect of games -- don't get me wrong, there is a lot of games I think should have this option turned on, but if the developer doesn't want it turned on, thats their choice. What made anyone think that this was their right to begin with? its encroaching upon one of the integral parts of game design, if you can change it on a whim, then how important does it become to the core experience?

I think you're thinking that I'm saying no developers should allow this, on the contrary I think they all should, but its up to them -- and thats how it should be.

[Razlo]

I refuse to buy any game that disables custom soundtrack. They can keep their uptight views and some other game company with an open mind can have my cash.

[Achilles]

What made anyone think that this was their right to begin with? its encroaching upon one of the integral parts of game design, if you can change it on a whim, then how important does it become to the core experience?

I think you're thinking that I'm saying no developers should allow this, on the contrary I think they all should, but its up to them -- and thats how it should be.I don't think you're saying that no developer should allow this. You're clearly in favor of doing whatever the developer wants on this issue.

I guess the point that I'm trying to get across is that it's not a right of mine to play different music while playing their game. It's a hard and fast ability of mine to do that and it always has been. All they're doing is preventing me from doing so in a way that maintains the other sounds their game has going on. If I'm playing BF2 I'm going to play different music. The difference is that it just won't handle that different music in a good way, like fade it out when people start talking over team chat, as it does with the in-game music. It'll be an even crappier experience than them just letting me replace their in-game music with my music, but I'll still do it.

Your solution of 'if you don't like the music don't play the game' isn't a good one because some games with boring or forgettable music are really really good. I'd say Ninja Gaiden falls into this category, as does God of War simply because the gameplay outlasts the freshness of the quasi-Conan soundtrack they've got.

In handhelds it's extremely hard to get a player not to turn off the sound. The music has to grab them fast and hard otherwise they're listening to their iPod. This is so much the case that most handheld games don't put a lot of effort into their music. Console games could easily do the same thing; just grab the player with the music right at the beginning and show them why they shouldn’t turn it off. Again, they already have to do this, because regardless of what the developer thinks, people already have the ability to turn off their music, all they're doing is inconveniencing the player and ensuring that the other sound in the game is washed out as well.

I personally listen to TV while playing KuF, that's how repetitive the music gets; I'd rather hear a news commentator say "Iraqification" a hundred times. But the game is good so I'm not going to stop playing it, but I have to miss most of the dialog in order to get rid of their music, which totally sucks.

It hasn't been done before, but that's no reason that it shouldn't be done now, and we very nearly had it, and we still may. I don't see anyone quoted in this article, or any comment from MS.

[bobbler]

I don't think you're saying that no developer should allow this. You're clearly in favor of doing whatever the developer wants on this issue.

I guess the point that I'm trying to get across is that it's not a right of mine to play different music while playing their game. It's a hard and fast ability of mine to do that and it always has been. All they're doing is preventing me from doing so in a way that maintains the other sounds their game has going on. If I'm playing BF2 I'm going to play different music. The difference is that it just won't handle that different music in a good way, like fade it out when people start talking over team chat, as it does with the in-game music. It'll be an even crappier experience than them just letting me replace their in-game music with my music, but I'll still do it.

Your solution of 'if you don't like the music don't play the game' isn't a good one because some games with boring or forgettable music are really really good. I'd say Ninja Gaiden falls into this category, as does God of War simply because the gameplay outlasts the freshness of the quasi-Conan soundtrack they've got.

In handhelds it's extremely hard to get a player not to turn off the sound. The music has to grab them fast and hard otherwise they're listening to their iPod. This is so much the case that most handheld games don't put a lot of effort into their music. Console games could easily do the same thing; just grab the player with the music right at the beginning and show them why they shouldn’t turn it off. Again, they already have to do this, because regardless of what the developer thinks, people already have the ability to turn off their music, all they're doing is inconveniencing the player and ensuring that the other sound in the game is washed out as well.

I personally listen to TV while playing KuF, that's how repetitive the music gets; I'd rather hear a news commentator say "Iraqification" a hundred times. But the game is good so I'm not going to stop playing it, but I have to miss most of the dialog in order to get rid of their music, which totally sucks.

It hasn't been done before, but that's no reason that it shouldn't be done now, and we very nearly had it, and we still may. I don't see anyone quoted in this article, or any comment from MS.

I understand what you're saying and to some extent I agree, I am just a firm believer in developer freedom -- there shouldn't be any requirements outside of what they want for the game.

I think a lot of developers will probably choose to opt in on it, I doubt MS made it very difficult to implement the feature. I believe the choice should be where MS put it, in the developers hands. The more choices we take away from the developers the quicker we end up with an industry thats doomed (more doomed than it is now!).

[Heretic Machine]

Whoopty-shit guys. Alls this means is that I won't be buying Eden Studio's game. But they damn well better label games that exclude this feature.

[bapenguin]

bobbler, my point is this. Why should they narrow their audience anymore than they have to? Why limit something, why take away features? Just because of the artistic expression and intent of the title?

Sure it's their right to do it, it's their game. That's fine. All I'm saying is it seems a bit silly to not allow the option at all.

[Syrinx]

I will be shocked if all EA games don't disable this so we're forced to keep looking at their crappy EA Trax. Damnit.

Bingo. It's going to be just like what we currently have :( This was a big selling point for me.

As far as the "If you don't like the music, turn on your stereo" thing, I run the Xbox through the stereo so that's ruled out.

[Kelegacy]

I'll keep it short, as I don't fully know how to explain the feeling I got when I read this thread:

Some of you are absolutely nuts.

I'll leave it up to you guys to decide which side are the crazy ones.

Okay, fuck it. I have to respond.



Haha, that's a riot. I "LOLed" a little.

The only games I have ever used custom soundtracks for were Doom 2 (well, I was young and just had the Offspring playing. Now when I hear that album, I'm reminded of Doom, or vice versa. Weird) and GTA:SA for PC. The latter makes a shitload of sense, but other than that, I haven't felt the need to. Even when a game has horrible voiceovers, I usually keep them on. I play a game as it's meant to be played. I don't care if the rest of you don't like to do that. If the developer went to the trouble of creating in game music or hiring asshole actors for voices, I'm going to sit through them. Having some rockband jam out while I'm playing Morrowind is about as comfortable as sitting in a tub full of icy water, naked. You just cant relax and immersive yourself that way.

It's your perogative, yes, but it's also the developer's perogative to do whatever the fuck they want. If you want to blare your radio while you're playing a game without custom tracks, then so be it. But to piss and moan because a developer didn't add the option of custom tracks...that's ridiculous.

[EternalGamer]

Again, I want to reiterate that I don't really consider gaming a "artform" yet, it's still in its infancy in that respect. However, if it is going to develop as a artform there needs to be respect for the artistic vision of a project. Should every game just allow people to customize it however they want? Should you be able to make a game super easy and cut out all the violence and blood? What if it were a war game and the whole damn point they wanted to convey was wrapped up in the hellishness of the experience--the difficulty and the gruesome nature of it. This customization would turn it into your own little squeeky clean Carnival shooting gallery.

I understand that MOST games don't really take advantage of sound to a point where it is an essential part of the narrative vision. But it should be up to the developer to decide whether or not their game is one that does. This path you are wanting to send gaming down is a path that cripples its ability to be an viable artistic media; it limits it to where it can never be anything more than entertainment on demand.

One of the biggest differences between "entertainment" and "art" is central to this very issue. Entertainment is something that is only designed to cater to consumer demand (ie. to make money). Art is something that challenges its audience's preconceptions and forces them to meet it on its own terms. I am fine with videgames being a form of "entertainment" but I would also like to leave from for them to develop as artform. Putting this type of limits on the creators based upon consumer demands would be a strong blow against that possibility.

Dan

[Kelegacy]

Again, I want to reiterate that I don't really consider gaming a "artform" yet, it's still in its infancy in that respect. However, if it is going to develop as a artform there needs to be respect for the artistic vision of a project. Should every game just allow people to customize it however they want? Should you be able to make a game super easy and cut out all the violence and blood? What if it were a war game and the whole damn point they wanted to convey was wrapped up in the hellishness of the experience--the difficulty and the gruesome nature of it. This customization would turn it into your own little squeeky clean Carnival shooting gallery.

I understand that MOST games don't really take advantage of sound to a point where it is an essential part of the narrative vision. But it should be up to the developer to decide whether or not their game is one that does. This path you are wanting to send gaming down is a path that cripples its ability to be an viable artistic media; it limits it to where it can never be anything more than entertainment on demand.

One of the biggest differences between "entertainment" and "art" is central to this very issue. Entertainment is something that is only designed to cater to consumer demand (ie. to make money). Art is something that challenges its audience's preconceptions and forces them to meet it on its own terms. I am fine with videgames being a form of "entertainment" but I would also like to leave from for them to develop as artform. Putting this type of limits on the creators based upon consumer demands would be a strong blow against that possibility.

Dan
If games are not art yet, they probably never will be. The industry is leaning towards the MTV/Spike TV shit, instead of Da Vinci masterpieces. Two of the best artsy games I can think of are Ico and Shadow of the Colossus. There are others, but they are rare. Kids like to play fast games with explosions and loud music. The trend will probably never truly be there to astound with artistic beauty, so long as developers know that *most* people could care less about it.

[EternalGamer]

If games are not art yet, they probably never will be. The industry is leaning towards the MTV/Spike TV shit, instead of Da Vinci masterpieces. Two of the best artsy games I can think of are Ico and Shadow of the Colossus. There are others, but they are rare. Kids like to play fast games with explosions and loud music. The trend will probably never truly be there to astound with artistic beauty, so long as developers know that *most* people could care less about it.


As the technology becomes more accessible, I think we will start to see the growth of an indie industry as a viable alternative (right now it's pretty peripheral) and one that forms kind of a symbiotic relationship with the mainstream (much the same way Hollywood and the Independant Film Industry works). I agree with you about the general "trend" but trends don't stop the potential development of the occassional artistically driven project.

Dan

[Ozymandias]

I wouldn't worry about this one. Microsoft's been pretty clear that the ability for a user to replace the background music of any game is a requirement. As such, it's very likely a TCR (TRC?) - something that's checked in the certification process. The developer might have this random thought in mind, but I suspect what'll actually happen is it gets flagged and fixed.

Yes, I know - no way to tell until it ships. Fair enough - let's see what happens.

[nonchalance]

But to piss and moan because a developer didn't add the option of custom tracks...that's ridiculous.

Adding the option and taking away the option are different things.

[EternalGamer]

Adding the option and taking away the option are different things.

That depends on who you think has original control over the product, Microsoft or the developer.

Dan

[nonchalance]

That depends on who you think has original control over the product, Microsoft or the developer.

Dan

If MS says "this functionality is in all Xbox360 games"
and the developer says "not our games, we're taking it out"
I'd consider that fairly clear.

Not putting in the functionality is fine. I couldn't care less.

[EternalGamer]

Unless you consider MS's statement a way of robbing the developer of itheir original right to make such decisions. In that case it is still a question of something "not being added" not something being taken away.

[Achilles]

I wouldn't worry about this one. Microsoft's been pretty clear that the ability for a user to replace the background music of any game is a requirement. As such, it's very likely a TCR (TRC?).MS has TCRs (Technical Certification Requirements). Sony has TRCs.

Requirements for games are a constant. They have to make their game recognize game invites and all of the other Live stuff, they have to make them display in 720p. Games that are made for the DS have to use the second screen. Games that are made for the revolution will have to use the features of their new controller, etc. There's also volume requirements so that one game isn't a ton louder than another, there's memory card corruption requirements. There's a requirement that the framerate doesn't constantly drop below 30, and there's one that the game doesn't crash. They’re required not to patch. Early PS2 games were required to be in 3d. All terminology is required. PS2 games are required to display their save messages in an exact way with the exact wording even if the developer, for the sake of immersion wants to make the saves invisible.

They make console gaming different than PC gaming.

[nonchalance]

Unless you consider MS's statement a way of robbing the developer of itheir original right to make such decisions. In that case it is still a question of something "not being added" not something being taken away.

I disagree.
If it's basic functionality and the developer has to do something to stop it working, then something is being taken away.
If it's additional code and the developer has to do something to put it it, then something is "not being added".

The argument that the developer should be allowed to take it away is a valid one, and people are raising good points on both sides, but it's definitely being taken away, not not added.

[AversionFX]

I think it's good that a developer can set it so that custom music can't be played. I mean, the ambience, mood and setting for a game like Silent Hill would be all shot to hell if you were listening to Britney Spears or something. It just wouldn't be the same.

The developer's goal, in my opinion, is to make a piece of software that immerses you in their art form. When you have the ability to play your own music, it seriously detracts from that art form and immersion. Obviously, this varies from game to game (or maybe genre to genre), but I still think the developer should have final say on whether or not custom music can be played with their game.

In addition: Why would you buy a game, the main selling point of which is the atmosphere, and then want to ruin said atmosphere with your own music? That makes no sense.

[Achilles]

In addition: Why would you buy a game, the main selling point of which is the atmosphere, and then want to ruin said atmosphere with your own music? That makes no sense.That's the player's choice isn't it? Clearly if they don't care about the suspense nothing is going to make them care, you're just basically giving them the finger and trying to ruin the rest of the audio for them out of spite. "You want to listen to Amorphous instead of the suspenseful rustling of leaves? Well fine, but you'll have to cut out voices and sound effects as well, so there. And use your stereo instead of your 360."

I'd add that players who buy survival horror games wouldn't use user soundtracks on their first playthrough for just that reason. It's why they bought the game. This company is insecure in their art if they think people are going to want to replace their soundtrack.

[EternalGamer]

Sorry Achilles but if this medium is going to advance beyond sheer entertainment value it cannot always subscribe the Burger King philosophy. There are certainly general standards that need to be met by a game developer for playabilities sake, but adding customizable music is not one of them. It is not that they are insecure in their art, it is that they have enough respect for it not to pander and to let it stand on its own. There is no artists in the world that is going to allow you to tell him to customize his art your way, and if they do, it is only for the practical reason of needing to make enough cash to one day develop their real art without such compromises.

Dan

[Syrinx]

In addition: Why would you buy a game, the main selling point of which is the atmosphere, and then want to ruin said atmosphere with your own music? That makes no sense.

You're assuming players will use custom soundtracks at every chance they get. I'd say fans of a survival horror game are probably going to want to keep the atmosphere.

It's about having the choice to use custom soundtracks though, which is something Microsoft advertised. I guarantee if developers can lock this out, EA will definitely do it with their damn EA Trax. They've paid licensing to those artists, they're going to want to make sure you listen. It's those types of games where I want to have this choice.

[Roc Ingersol]

AH, you seem to have missed the point nicely. Your not doing an apples to apples comparisions. With the XBox 360 you can still listen to music, just not through the xbox.
Exactly. So why go through the trouble of making it annoying?

Because the consumer is too much of a dirty unappreciative rube to play through it 'properly' the first time unless you disable the option?

C'mon. That's bullshit.

If they're going to condescend to me, assume I'm going to 'ruin it' without experiencing the OEM package at least once, then they can tongue-bathe my taint.

[Roc Ingersol]

It is not that they are insecure in their art, it is that they have enough respect for it not to pander and to let it stand on its own.
They should cut the self-congratulatory circle jerk around their 'art' and try to conjure a bit of respect for the audience.

Because all they're saying saying is that the consumer doesn't know any better.
That we're all filthy heathens incapable of deciding for ourselves when it is and is not appropriate to play a custom soundtrack.

[Kelegacy]

They should cut the self-congratulatory circle jerk around their 'art' and try to conjure a bit of respect for the audience.

Because all they're saying saying is that the consumer doesn't know any better.
That we're all filthy heathens incapable of deciding for ourselves when it is and is not appropriate to play a custom soundtrack.

They're making the game for us. Suddenly they are disrespectful because they didn't include custom track options?

From now on I am going to call developers disrespectful if they do not personally come over to my place and perform fellatio on my man parts. After all, they owe me more than just developing a great game.

[Roc Ingersol]

They're making the game so we buy it. They're not doing anything altruistic.

They're disrespectful because they're going out of their way to disable a 'standard' feature, because they don't trust us to know when it is and is not appropriate.

I'm asking for a tiny bit of respect for the audience.
And they can't seem to find it.

[EternalGamer]

They should cut the self-congratulatory circle jerk around their 'art' and try to conjure a bit of respect for the audience.

Because all they're saying saying is that the consumer doesn't know any better.
That we're all filthy heathens incapable of deciding for ourselves when it is and is not appropriate to play a custom soundtrack.

Let's be a bit more reasonable. All artists are not elitest just because they wish to control the narrative they communicate to their audience. All they are doing is asking their audience to meet that narrative on its own terms and react to it however they will.

Dan

[Roc Ingersol]

They do control it. They have total creative control.
And they're not asking the audience anything. They're telling.
That's the whole problem.

They're not saying: Dude, you should play this game in the dark, with the sound up really loud because the atmosphere totally kicks ass.

They're saying: We disabled custom tracks because you're too dumb to know when it is and isn't appropriate.

If they were at all reasonable, they'd make it so you could use custom soundtracks on levels you've already defeated, or after you beat the game or something.

But they're not being reasonable.

[Achilles]

It is not that they are insecure in their art, it is that they have enough respect for it not to pander and to let it stand on its own. There is no artists in the world that is going to allow you to tell him to customize his art your way.Let's see what kind of "art" these guys are turning out before we decide for certain how secure they are in it. My theory is that someone who is so much about thinking they can control how the player plays their stuff is usually making up for their gameplay, art or sountrack not being compelling enough for the player to view it in the way it was intended.

You’re also still assuming that, if this requirement can be ignored, that the only games that will ignore it are ones that are trying for a certain mood. I guarantee you that multiplayer games will ignore it as well, and is that really good for the ‘art’? Because again, after 200 hours of BF 2, I really want to listen to some music and who are they to say that I can’t. Their game clearly isn’t trying for mood, or trying to be deep and engaging. They’re just having me run around and shoot stuff, why can’t I listen to some metal while I do that?

[TKO]

...after 200 hours of BF 2, I really want to listen to some music and who are they to say that I can’t. Their game clearly isn’t trying for mood, or trying to be deep and engaging. They’re just having me run around and shoot stuff, why can’t I listen to some metal while I do that?
Exactly. I think I'm intelligent enough to know when to play my own music. If they are going to try to tell me I can't, when microsoft has already told us we can do this in all games for their console, I tell ya, I'm certainly less interested in paying for that experience.

Some of the best fun I had in Wolfenstein online was when I set up the MODPlug player in the background, playing the Unreal Tournament music. That really helped keep the pace up, the adrenaline going, and IMHO just made the game better for me. ...I know how to enjoy my games. They don't. :)