iTunes Content to be Unplayable on Xbox 360, iPod too?

[fitbabits]

Next Generation (http://www.next-gen.biz) is reporting that the Xbox 360 will not recognise or play content purchased from Apple's online iTunes store (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1544&Itemid=2).

Scott Henson, product unit manager for Microsoft's advanced technology group said, "We do not have an official relationship with Apple for the iPod connectivity." He added that Microsoft tried to work with its old rival on an official partnership, but the idea was rejected by Apple.

Although Xbox 360 will recognize and play iPod content, it will not pick up music bought from Apple's own store. Those songs will be greyed out on screen.
How long before someone circumnavigates this one?

Update: According to News.com (http://news.com.com/Xbox+360+and+iPod+interoperability+Sort+of/2100-1041_3-5931847.html), Apple may force an upgrade onto iPods that disables XBox 360 support all together. This is in regards to a licensing issues that Apple would like to force down on everyone.

Apple has been pitching a very different approach for those who want to connect to its popular music player. Through its so-called "Made for iPod" program, the Cupertino, Calif., company is attempting to collect royalties from the maker of any accessory device that interfaces with an iPod through its "dock connector.""We expect Apple will have some retaliation ready within days or hours of the Xbox 360 shipping," Doherty said, referring to potential new iPod firmware or a new version of iTunes that could disable interoperability. "If you have iTunes prior to last May, it may work with the Xbox 360 forever, but if you accept (Apple's) updates, it may work differently."
That's just dumb on Apple's part. It's a mutually beneficial relationship (more so for Microsoft than Apple), but will still piss a lot of people off. Without that feature, future MP3 player purchases may not be from Apple. Thanks Gamecloud (http://www.gamecloud.com).

[thegameguru]

My Sonos system still can't stream Itunes purchased tracks.. so I'm not in the least bit suprised the 360 can't either..

Apple isnt going to release this to anyone.. since they'll be introducing their own Media Center next year....

Built in Homeplug 2.0 hopefully...

[bapenguin]

When I was at the NYC show Microsoft said they tried to get Apple to allow them to use their DRM but refused to license it to Microsoft.

The easy workaround is just burn every alblum you buy from iTunes then promptly rip it again. Problem solved...un DRMed songs.

[Nimos]

Why would you want to connect your iPod to the Xbox360 in the first place ?
A player for the mp3 player :confused: ?

[Taco]

I think it already has. There's software out there that can rip the DRM out of iTunes songs. Or do like Bap says.

[Roc Ingersol]

Thank Apple for proprietary DRM.

Low tech solution: burn your iTunes music to standard redbook audio CD and re-rip it to glorious DRM-free mp3s.
You should probably be doing this anyway. DRM is unnecessary and an affront to Fair Use.

(Again, this is what I was talking about wrt Sony's EULA. Doing something like this would violate a EULA making your purchase void - even though it is 100% legal under copyright law.)

[Roc Ingersol]

Why would you want to connect your iPod to the Xbox360 in the first place ?
When you have 10 gig of music in the little bastard, you don't really relish the thought of and keeping it all synched in every single device you want to listen to music through. (the ipod, home pc, laptop, work pc, 360, friend's 360, etc)

much easier to just plug it in, no?

[El Gato]

I was never under the impression that it would. As far as I know (I've never used iTunes - and I never will) the DRM'd stuff will only work on an iPod.

[Dag-Sabot]

How long before someone circumnavigates this one?
...uh you mean like travel around it, possibly in a boat? Not long, if you have a good boat and crew, but If you mean "Circumvent" might be a while...add another reason why i wont be getting one.

[Vandenh]

>add another reason why i wont be getting one.

An iPod you mean?

Just buy an open mp3 player instead....

[Taco]

What do you mean by open? You can play mp3's on an iPod.

[Morratut]

>add another reason why i wont be getting one.

An iPod you mean?

Just buy an open mp3 player instead....

Good advice. This is another reason not to buy a Ipod. I've got a Rio and it will have no problems whatsoever :D

In regards to the update from Bapenguin. Fuck you Apple. You awkward bastards!!!

I'm so glad i didn't get a device which made me sell my music soul.

[Taco]

I have an iPod. I have no DRM song files. The iPod plays them all fine.

[fitbabits]

...uh you mean like travel around it, possibly in a boat? Not long, if you have a good boat and crew, but If you mean "Circumvent" might be a while...add another reason why i wont be getting one.
Uh... Actually, smarty, I meant circumnavigate -

cir·cum·nav·i·gate - To go around; circumvent.
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: avoid

[Cubfan]

Built in Homeplug 2.0 hopefully...

Why did I read that as Buttplug 2.0? The internet poisons your mind. :(

[AntB]

Got an Ipod. Not one song is Drm'd. 30 gigs of streight music rippen. Huge CD collection collecting dust.

[Slack3r78]

http://www.hymn-project.org/
Not sure if iTunes 6 broke it or not as I've only bought a couple of tracks from iTMS, but this will strip the DRM from the AAC files without having to waste a CD-R in the process.

[DaedalusFolly]

Why did I read that as Buttplug 2.0? The internet poisons your mind. :(

I think in this case your mind just poisoned the internet.... ;)

[bapenguin]

I just updated the newsposts...sounds like Apple may break iPod support all together because they are greedy arrogant pricks.

[fitbabits]

I just updated the newsposts...sounds like Apple may break iPod support all together because they are greedy arrogant pricks.
Dirty heathen fuckers - I hope Steve Jobs' next crap is a hedgehog.

[Beelzebud]

You know you don't NEED an Ipod for an mp3 player, right? I have been using a Creative Nomad for over 2 years with no problems. And it was a few hundred dollars cheaper.

[Wonka]

True but if you already HAVE an ipod (and many people DO), it might be annoying if there is an ongoing war between Apple breaking support and MS fixing it every couple weeks...

[fitbabits]

You know you don't NEED an Ipod for an mp3 player, right? I have been using a Creative Nomad for over 2 years with no problems. And it was a few hundred dollars cheaper.
But duuuuude, iPods are so much cooler. Just ask Eminem, U2, etc.

[Roc Ingersol]

Dirty heathen fuckers - I hope Steve Jobs' next crap is a hedgehog.
My thought's exactly.

Well not exactly. I think breaking standard USB interop deserves a porcupine -- but either way'll work.

[Roc Ingersol]

True but if you already HAVE an ipod (and many people DO), it might be annoying if there is an ongoing war between Apple breaking support and MS fixing it every couple weeks...
Can't. 'fixing it' would be illegal.
If Apple breaks standard USB interop, that's all she wrote. Unless they make a licensing deal.

Which is probably exactly what Steve's trolling for.

[Taco]

I only have a Nano, $200 is actually a decent price for what it is I think. I haven't bought any of the standard iPods because they are to expensive. But if it came down to Apple and Creative, Creative can kiss my ass. I don't care if their player is heavenly.

[Beelzebud]

But duuuuude, iPods are so much cooler. Just ask Eminem, U2, etc.

LOL that seems to be the case. :D

[Maskatron]

I love my iPod but I will never buy a freaking DRM song from anyone.

[Venkman]

Why would you want to connect your iPod to the Xbox360 in the first place ?
A player for the mp3 player :confused: ?

You can also use the iPod if you have a core bundle with no hard drive.

[DoubleUranium]

I only have a Nano, $200 is actually a decent price for what it is I think. I haven't bought any of the standard iPods because they are to expensive. But if it came down to Apple and Creative, Creative can kiss my ass. I don't care if their player is heavenly.

Amen. I'd buy DRM content before I bought anything from Creative ever again. Hooking up a Creative mp3 player to the 360 would probably require putting in the original driver CD that came with it every time you wanted to play a song.

[fndarkone]

Uh... Actually, smarty, I meant circumnavigate -

cir·cum·nav·i·gate - To go around; circumvent.
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: avoid
you're still wrong. you circumvent digital security. you circumnavigate a physical place.

[Amalor]

I am about to buy a MP3 player, I was on the fence for a while but this clinchs it.. I will not be buying an Ipod. Creative was cheaper anyway ;) Open source is one of the great things that drives technology, too bad Apple is giving it a big fuck you..

-Cheers
-Amalor

[netcraazzy]

I never knew this was such a hot topic. How many of you folks actually ripped your cds to the Xbox hard drive and used your Xbox as your primary means of listening to music at home? I personally don't have my Xbox hooked up to a big stereo or anything so this feature will be wasted on me. Suppose I did have a big stereo though, I sill wouldn't be hooking my mp3 player up to the Xbox and then firing up the damn thing every time I wanted to listen to music. Now if I had a dedicated media center PC and was streaming all my mp3s, movies and pictures off that to the 360 THAT might be worth the hassle. I'm sure other people will love the mp3 player connectivity feature, I'm just curious how many will make good use of it.

[Melonman0]

I am about to buy a MP3 player, I was on the fence for a while but this clinchs it.. I will not be buying an Ipod. Creative was cheaper anyway ;) Open source is one of the great things that drives technology, too bad Apple is giving it a big fuck you..



So you are getting a Creative music player? Its not like they support open source either. Just ask John Carmack.

[diggable]

netcrazzy, apparently you don't know what the xbox360 can do.

you can plugin your ipod and replace the soundtrack of your current game.
you can plugin your ipod and use the winamp llama visuals while it plays the songs on your ipod.

i'm sure there are other ideas for the ipod.

i don't use iTunes to rip/transfer songs to my ipod, I use AnaPod.

[doyama]

Why is this news? Seriously?

Apple has always enforced this. It's not that you cannot play iTunes bought music on the XBox360, you can't play it on anything other than iTunes and an iPod. This has been the case ever since the iTunes store opened.

Why are people 'shocked' by this revelation. Apple has historically been unwilling to give away any APIs to interact with their DRM software. And all attempts to break their DRM were met with lots of lawyers. Remember the first versions had were being shuffled to servers in India in order to get hosting space.

Yes it's a money grab but the article makes it sound like the XBox360 was going to be able to do this, when in reality, it never was. This is incredibly misleading by cnet, the article originator, and just shows a general 'shock journalism' mentality, all the article does is state what is basically what has existed for years.

As for 'breaking' XBox360 interoperability? Again more 'shock journalism' the iPod is a FAT file system formatted device. Unless they want to change the file system on it there is no way to 'break' that interoperability per-say. Not to mention how do you break something that never actually existed in the first place?

On a side note is it just me or is this shock journalism crap just getting more and more prevalant. It's gotten to the point I don't even watch any of the 'regular' news outlets because the stuff they report on hardly even qualifies as real 'news'. I wish CNN had really taken John Stewart's rant on Crossfire to heart and started doing 'news' instead of delivering the drivel they constantly do.

[doyama]

Addendum to my previous comment. This is not to say that I don't think the stonewalling Apple is doing with their DRM API is acceptable. They are obviously using their virtual monopoly in the online music business as a club instead of an olive branch. It's unfortnate.

But still doesn't excuse journalist from doing 'basic' research instead of churning out drivel.

I certainly hope some of you who are 'boycotting' Apple, are doing so for their 'general' policy of DRM, which is true, and not because of them 'breaking xbox360 support' which is blatanly false.

I do have an iPod nano, so I admit I'm a tad biased, but I believe people should make informed choices on correct information.

[lpmiller]

I have no desire to dock my ipod to an xbox anyway. Plugs right into the speakers. Frankly, it just sounds like an exuse to make shitty soundtracks for games.

[rein]

Yea... ..because MS is known for all of its open source software. Apple has no reason to give this to MS. I am about to buy my daughter a new ipod and I am still picking up my 360, yet... ..I don't feel cheated.

[bapenguin]

But still doesn't excuse journalist from doing 'basic' research instead of churning out drivel.

I certainly hope some of you who are 'boycotting' Apple, are doing so for their 'general' policy of DRM, which is true, and not because of them 'breaking xbox360 support' which is blatanly false.


The fact is Apple wants to license ANY connection to their iPod. Not just the DRM stuff which they won't license AT ALL.

[DoubleUranium]

Buying from Creative is the worst idea you've ever had. The software sucks and the company sucks even more. As mentioned, ask Carmack how much he likes Creative their bullshit software patents. If you're feeling the Apple hate then buy Archos, Samsung, etc, but fuck Creative.

[Amalor]

kk I see Creative is getting no love here lol, they were a great company back in the day.
So who has a sugesstion for $200ish MP3 player that will play the "Audible" audio book files?

-Cheers
-Amalor

[DropD98]

Yes it's a money grab but the article makes it sound like the XBox360 was going to be able to do this, when in reality, it never was.

Actually, I remember seeing Microsoft doing a demo of the 360 at one of the big electronics/games expos(think it was the one in Germany), where the guy was playing a game, switched to one of the blades and selected his iPod that he had plugged in, and played one of the songs on the Xbox 360 from his iPod. So what you said isn't entirely true. If I can find a video of what I saw, I will definitely post it....

[Nimos]

I just updated the newsposts...sounds like Apple may break iPod support all together because they are greedy arrogant pricks.

Welcome to the 80's !

Dirty heathen fuckers - I hope Steve Jobs' next crap is a hedgehog.

You have some serious issues...

[Taco]

There's a difference from being able to play DRM AAC files, and being able to play music off an iPod. You still can plug in your ipod and play music off it, as long as the music is not a DRM AAC format.

Edit: Missed the update, so at least that was the case. But now Apple is even trying to block that. Which seems to be pretty stupid to me. They will most certainly drive away consumers if they limit this kind of thing. I don't see what they stand to gain.

[TrackZero]

My only thought on this is that I wish MS had said nothing about iPod compatibility. Then they could have snuck it in right at launch for everyone, people would have gotten a chance to actually use it, and THEN Apple would have broken it. That way, public perception would correctly be this is Apples decision, not Microsofts, as I'm sure the mainstream will end up thinking.

Oh well, good thing I don't own an iPod, nor plan on ever getting one due to this (and here the nano had me excited).

[Sensei-X]

Can't. 'fixing it' would be illegal.
If Apple breaks standard USB interop, that's all she wrote. Unless they make a licensing deal.

Which is probably exactly what Steve's trolling for.

I would go for the easy fix, put bars on your windows and get a dead-bolt to keep Steve Jobs from sneaking into your house in the middle of the night and updating your iPod firmware. But seriously, Apple can update all they want but there's no one that is twisting your arm to upgrade your firmware. My girlfriend has had her iPod for 2 years now and there has never been a compelling reason to upgrade the firmware and it's never had a single problem.

[bobbler]

Sometimes I think you guys are completely insane. Whats with all the drama over something that maybe 1% of people will even bother trying? If I was in Apple's place I sure as shit wouldn't have allowed MS to touch my DRM crap that I spent quite a chunk of change to build up. It isn't as if this would actually help Apple in any way -- it is a marketing bullet point for MS. What would Apple actually gain out of the deal? Nothing, yet they'd give some crazy people more reason to buy an Xbox360, which they have no vested interest in (if anything they'd be better off if it failed miserably).

I hate DRM as much as the next person, but getting mad at Apple or MS for this is silly at best. I'd have to say that anyone who is upset over this apparently needs more human drama in their life, so they don't need to create drama out of thin air.

Who here would _actually_ use such a silly feature? And to those that would, how much of a hassle is it to convert your DRM'ed crap to MP3 (if you haven't already, assuming you even have DRM'ed crap to begin with)?

Now, if Apple wants to lock things that interact with it over USB, more power to them -- PC interaction won't get changed anyways, it'd just be to prevent people from using it on Xbox360 (which might be in Apple's best interest, as I said, to prevent more selling points of Xbox360 -- MS is essentially using iPod's success to help their sales, its a free advertising ride on that front, which I'm sure Apple doesn't like).

[Taco]

It's not just the Xbox 360 though. They want to charge any other company that wants to interface with an iPod. If you want to support that like a good little American capitalist, that's fine. But it's not a good move for anyone.

As huge as the iPods are I think Apple is overrating their staying power and making stupid decisions like this cuts down on it even more(you'd think they'd learn from the Mac). Is there anyone out there that can say for sure that 4-5 years from now Apple is still going to be the king? Seems they think that way since they are trying to cash in on what they have established rather than to continue spreading it and working on longevity.

What they should be doing is going out of their way to make sure other companies tailor their products for the iPod, not punish them if they want to.

[bobbler]

It's not just the Xbox 360 though. They want to charge any other company that wants to interface with an iPod. If you want to support that like a good little American capitalist, that's fine. But it's not a good move for anyone.

As huge as the iPods are I think Apple is overrating their staying power and making stupid decisions like this cuts down on it even more(you'd think they'd learn from the Mac). Is there anyone out there that can say for sure that 4-5 years from now Apple is still going to be the king? Seems they think that way since they are trying to cash in on what they have established rather than to continue spreading it and working on longevity.

I think some of you are putting a bit too much importance on what Xbox360's ability to play iTunes DRM'ed music means to Apple -- Nothing. It doesn't help their market, as any person with DRM'ed music already has an iPod and will continue to purchase the songs whether some product that isn't even out yet is able to support it fully or not. It doesn't make sense for Apple to bother with it (it involves more than just a "sure MS, go for it!"). What type of person is the target for such a feature? How many of those people can't actually do that already (either by connecting their iPod to their stereo/entertainment system or by having their PC connected to it). Who is this bullet point actually satisfying?

Additionally, what else does an iPod currently interface with? I'd love to know how a change like that would truely affect anyone. The reason I don't care is because a little gnome told me it won't change the only thing I care about it interfacing with: PC.

If someone can come up with what else an iPod interacts with through the USB port that I should be pissed at it's change then I will, but until this then entire thread is frivolous. (this change only means that they get to decide what it works with through the USB port, and doesn't mean that they won't allow some things). Not only does Xbox360 not being able to play DRM'ed songs not matter, but what Apple is doing in response to it is also equally unmatterful.

Picture this: You own a large company and make a successful product, how would you feel if a competitor used your product as a selling point for another product of theirs? If you had any business sense you'd surely not be happy. I'd be rather furious at the other company, especially when that company is known for doing things like this (and doing things like what Apple wants to do).

I don't mean to defend Apple here (I honestly don't really think their products are all that fantastic, I think their OS is overrated, and their hardware is priced to the moon -- I wouldn't have an iPod if it wasn't a gift), but this is entirely too stupid to let pass up. Anyone who has thought about the situation for more than a few seconds, and doesn't have their head so far up MS's ass can see that the only possibly logical outcome to this has happened. MS tried to pad their box with more bullet points as cheaply as possible (nobody can hold that against them), Apple said no to DRM support, big deal. (besides Apple retaliating against MS, which I find hilarious and am actually happy to see -- not that it matters for MS, they'll do fine, which is the only reason I don't mind seeing them get a slap once in a while -- someone has to keep them in check)

[Taco]

I think some of you are putting a bit too much importance on what Xbox360's ability to play iTunes DRM'ed music means to Apple -- Nothing.

Indeed, if MS was the only target no big deal. They don't want ANYONE, competitor or otherwise, to be able to interface with an iPod without paying royalties.

Additionally, what else does an iPod currently interface with? I'd love to know how a change like that would truely affect anyone. The reason I don't care is because a little gnome told me it won't change the only thing I care about it interfacing with: PC.

Car adaptors, radio adaptors and other minor things. But like I said, it's about setting yourself up for the future. Now's the time to get some roots in before things balloon up, which they will. If the current landscape of portable music players was going to remain the same, who cares. But do you really think that's going to happen or are a lot of companies out there going to try to expand on the central idea of an MP3 player? It's not really about portable music anymore when you have 60gb of space, it turns into a centralized and portable music center, with untapped potential.

Picture this: You own a large company and make a successful product, how would you feel if a competitor used your product as a selling point for another product of theirs? If you had any business sense you'd surely not be happy. I'd be rather furious at the other company, especially when that company is known for doing things like this (and doing things like what Apple wants to do).

Once again. Picture this. You have a big product that is currently a top dog. You have the ability to set yourself up to be in a position where you are the center of the universe for years to come. Instead you isolate yourself and charge for admission. That's not going to fly, Creative or someone else will sieze the opportunity and you'll start seeing home entertainment systems, car audio, and who knows what else all developed around a competitors device. All they'll ask in return is product branding, they may even offer money at first. When that happens the iPod will go the way of the Macintosh.

Apple said no to DRM support, big deal

And again, it's not just DRM. Its anything and everything on the iPod, MP3's, AAC's drm'd or not. And it's not about Microsoft. Make sure you read the update to the topic.

Apple has been pitching a very different approach for those who want to connect to its popular music player. Through its so-called "Made for iPod" program, the Cupertino, Calif., company is attempting to collect royalties from the maker of any accessory device that interfaces with an iPod through its "dock connector."

[bobbler]

Indeed, if MS was the only target no big deal. They don't want ANYONE, competitor or otherwise, to be able to interface with an iPod without paying royalties.

Surely that is fine if Apple wants to -- it is their product infact. It is no more nefarious than MS forcing all third party peripherals to be licensed through MS, instead of how it is now -- I didn't see people bitching about that. When you create the product sometimes it is in your best interest to make sure people (i.e. other companies) aren't using it in ways you don't want.



Car adaptors, radio adaptors and other minor things. But like I said, it's about setting yourself up for the future. Now's the time to get some roots in before things balloon up, which they will. If the current landscape of portable music players was going to remain the same, who cares. But do you really think that's going to happen or are a lot of companies out there going to try to expand on the central idea of an MP3 player? It's not really about portable music anymore when you have 60gb of space, it turns into a centralized and portable music center, with untapped potential.

All of the radio adapters I've seen use the 1/8th inch mini jack + the extra jack and not the USB. There are a few car stereos (like the one from BMW) which support iPod, but those shouldn't change -- it will only affect the product if the company is unwilling to support the licensing. The only thing I can think of that would be rendered useless is those small companies who make those jacks to connect to a car stereo, if they don't want to pay up (which would be silly that they didn't, their entire product is leeching off the success of another).



Once again. Picture this. You have a big product that is currently a top dog. You have the ability to set yourself up to be in a position where you are the center of the universe for years to come. Instead you isolate yourself and charge for admission. That's not going to fly, Creative or someone else will sieze the opportunity and you'll start seeing home entertainment systems, car audio, and who knows what else all developed around a competitors device. All they'll ask in return is product branding, they may even offer money at first. When that happens the iPod will go the way of the Macintosh.

Surely you aren't a business major. What iPod is doing now is exactly that -- making a need for their product to play their widely successful DRM'ed music, which is only growing (because Yahoo and Connect are awful in comparison). They are at a point (being top dog) where they can dictate what happens with their product and start charging other companies to use it, because other companies realize its widely successful (why else would MS add iPod support, surely it wasn't because Gates loves iPods and mandated it). This in turn gives Apple more money to expand their business even further.


And again, it's not just DRM. Its anything and everything on the iPod, MP3's, AAC's drm'd or not. And it's not about Microsoft. Make sure you read the update to the topic.

I've read it.

I get the feeling you are only defending this because I quoted your post originally. You can't possibly believe Apple is a nefarious company because it does what most smart companies would do in the same position? MS is doing it with their 360 peripherals, and has done all kinds of that type of stuff with its OS'. MS saw that it could control how things interact with it and decided since it controlled it, it could charge for it. It isn't an evil thing for a company to do, it is how a company makes extra profit. When said company is in a position where other products depend on it thats great -- it is what a lot of companies dream of. Its the same thing with licensing to make console games -- remember the fiasco with TENGEN games on NES? It's all the same. When you control the product you can control other products that are basing their sales off your product's success. Its called smart business.

I've still yet to see how Apples decision is in any way negatively affecting users who aren't already crazy. Maybe I'm crazy. :p

[Taco]

Surely you aren't a business major. What iPod is doing now is exactly that -- making a need for their product to play their widely successful DRM'ed music, which is only growing (because Yahoo and Connect are awful in comparison). They are at a point (being top dog) where they can dictate what happens with their product and start charging other companies to use it, because other companies realize its widely successful (why else would MS add iPod support, surely it wasn't because Gates loves iPods and mandated it). This in turn gives Apple more money to expand their business even further.

How does that matter? Microsoft is not offering you a way to bypass your iPod to play the music on the 360(I don’t think?). This is not about a competing MP3 player that can play DRM'd AAC files(which Apple would be dumb to allow happen).

It's more easily compared with Microsoft spending millions of dollars over the last decade reaching out to software developers in order to make sure more software is developed for their OS, while developing and supporting tools that create Windows applications. They don't do that early on they don't have quite the application support now, they lose some of their edge while other OS's gain.

The flipside of this would be Nintendo and their fall from grace due mostly to their lack of support for third party developers and the royalties they charge. Thus leading to competitors with far more games available. As far your console comparisons, they don't hold up as much since they take over central aspect of the experience that is being sold. Ultimately what Apple is selling is the interface and portability, no one can mess with that no matter how lenient they are with third parties(short of opening AAC files to the Nomad or something).

I get the feeling you are only defending this because I quoted your post originally. You can't possibly believe Apple is a nefarious company because it does what most smart companies would do in the same position?

Correct. No it's not evil. It's mostly an interesting discussion. I don't see how it helps them. There’s more to be gained by promoting third party support than driving it away. Microsoft has plenty of cruddy business practices, but they do go out of their way to reach out to the technology world to develop for them and to use them for business purposes(when I say technology world I mean the masses and clueless CTO’s, not the slashdotters). They don't shut the door. They just try to buy you out if you happen to be developing a product that competes with them ;).


I've still yet to see how Apples decision is in any way negatively affecting users who aren't already crazy.

It really doesn't in the longterm, since ultimately they are hurting themselves as the consumer happily switches to a competing product that supports whatever hot third party devices are out there(and who knows what they will be). Only people who get screwed are current owners of the iPod, but by the time they feel the heat it will have been long enough since the initial purchase.

[TrackZero]

kk I see Creative is getting no love here lol, they were a great company back in the day.
So who has a sugesstion for $200ish MP3 player that will play the "Audible" audio book files?

-Cheers
-Amalor

I've got a 512MB creative Muvo Slim mp3 player, it's been a great purchase. I've never had a problem with any soundcards or CD-ROM drives from them in the past, no beef here.

[TrackZero]

I would go for the easy fix, put bars on your windows and get a dead-bolt to keep Steve Jobs from sneaking into your house in the middle of the night and updating your iPod firmware. But seriously, Apple can update all they want but there's no one that is twisting your arm to upgrade your firmware. My girlfriend has had her iPod for 2 years now and there has never been a compelling reason to upgrade the firmware and it's never had a single problem.

Technically there's no reason that apple can't update iTunes and force users to upgrade their firmware to use it. Which wouldn't surprise me if they decide to go that route.

[TrackZero]

Surely that is fine if Apple wants to -- it is their product infact. It is no more nefarious than MS forcing all third party peripherals to be licensed through MS, instead of how it is now -- I didn't see people bitching about that. When you create the product sometimes it is in your best interest to make sure people (i.e. other companies) aren't using it in ways you don't want.


To me, it's not about Apple and Microsoft, that's their fucking problem.

However, what's specifically Apples problem, with regard to the consumer, is that they just took away compatibility for their product, while all their competitors mp3 players will be able to have this functionality. So it's not good for the consumer, and it's not going to exactly help Apple sell more iPods either. Therefore, it's just a bad move.

[bobbler]

It really doesn't in the longterm, since ultimately they are hurting themselves as the consumer happily switches to a competing product that supports whatever hot third party devices are out there(and who knows what they will be). Only people who get screwed are current owners of the iPod, but by the time they feel the heat it will have been long enough since the initial purchase.

We may just have to agree to disagree. I don't see this as actually hurting Apple at all. I really don't think their choice of not being included in Xbox360 is going to affect people's decision to buy an iPod -- you buy it because its "cool" and iTunes is currently the best source of legal digital media. The amount of people that would actually be influenced by this is rather small -- most people probably won't even know about the feature (or remember it after launch). iPods are the type of product which don't really _need_ third party products to stay afloat, everything you need is pretty much in the package you buy at the store... the extra stuff is just that, extra. Forcing other companies to pay royalties isn't likely to actually affect many users (users will have to update their firmware, and have to be using one of the devices that isn't supported -- not sure how they'll handle old devices to be honest). No companies choices can constantly make every user happy -- you lose users and you hopefully gain a ton more... Apple is still very much gaining tons of new users, and as long as iTunes is the best legal source of digital media then there really isn't much of an option. I'm not sure if any of you have actually used all three of the major services, but I have (finding less popular stuff is hard sometimes), and iTunes is miles ahead of the competition in terms of reliability in their software and ease of use (at least from my experiences). As far as I'm concerned iTunes has no real solid competition, and iPods are still "cool" and they keep releasing new versions that sell like crazy -- I'd say they are doing well off, barring any huge new changes from Connect and Yahoo's music thingy, iTunes shouldn't have any trouble remaining at the top.

TrackZero:

What other media players does it support? All I remember hearing was iPod and PSP (because PSP just shows itself as a mem stick). I don't remember them saying every portable player would be supported through USB -- its quite possible I just can't remember (as the feature didn't really matter to me).

I have a feeling (was it you who said this, TrackZero?) that not having iPod support will just make MS look like they weren't "cool" enough to get it, rather than Apple being a jerk. Which is part of the power that Apple has currently. Not that it really matters to a vast majority of people, but I don't think Apple is going to be looked upon worse by this (by the average person at least -- you may hate them =o).

[Taco]

don't see this as actually hurting Apple at all. I really don't think their choice of not being included in Xbox360 is going to affect people's decision to buy an iPod -- you buy it because its "cool" and iTunes is currently the best source of legal digital media. The amount of people that would actually be influenced by this is rather small -- most people probably won't even know about the feature (or remember it after launch)

If it was just going to be Microsoft and the 360, I'd agree. But they are saying it's going to be everyone.

As far as I'm concerned iTunes has no real solid competition, and iPods are still "cool" and they keep releasing new versions that sell like crazy -- I'd say they are doing well off, barring any huge new changes from Connect and Yahoo's music thingy, iTunes shouldn't have any trouble remaining at the top.

Keep in mind, and you may know this, that Apple doesn't make a dime off iTunes directly(thank the RIAA and their monetary demands). It's a means to an end, the end being selling more iPods. Because of this Apple can be more flexible with the prices and content that they offer on iTunes, as compared to Yahoo, Napster and the other players who are trying to turn a direct profit from the music.

[mister_slim]

So, more blown out of proporition rumor mongering and speculation. Yes, Apple could break their USB connectivity. I don't see anything beyond speculation pointing to them actually doing so. There's certainly no reason for them to hand over either their DRM or decrypted digital files to MS.

As to the licensing, anyone is free to sell an MP3 player accessory that works with the iPod. If they want to piggyback on Apple's brand they can pay the price. Notice how MS C&D Windows Defender the other day?
The fact is Apple wants to license ANY connection to their iPod. Not just the DRM stuff which they won't license AT ALL.
It's not just the Xbox 360 though. They want to charge any other company that wants to interface with an iPod. If you want to support that like a good little American capitalist, that's fine. But it's not a good move for anyone.
You mean like MS is doing with the Xbox 360 accessories and with PlaysForSure?

[Taco]

I don't see accessories playing as big of a part in the console wars, unless they wanted royalties to be payed for audio and video connectivity maybe. Morally it's the same, but that's not what I'm arguing.

I'm not even sure what PlaysForSure is, so if I glossed over that fill me in.

[mister_slim]

I don't see accessories playing as big of a part in the console wars, unless they wanted royalties to be payed for audio and video connectivity maybe. Morally it's the same, but that's not what I'm arguing.

I'm not even sure what PlaysForSure is, so if I glossed over that fill me in.
Guaranteed WMA playback. If you see it on your player you can play songs from Napster, Yahoo, et al, but not iTunes stuff. It's MS's attempt to make WMA a viable system.

What are you arguing, then? That the iPod name belongs to everyone?