Dreamcast and Xbox 360 Similarities

[Royal Fool]

1UP.com (http://www.1up.com/) has published an interesting feature article (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3145154&did=1) highlighting the main similarities between the Dreamcast and the Xbox 360. It also takes a look at why the Xbox 360 will succeed over it's spiritual predecessor.

Dreamcast: Launched a year before the competition.
Xbox 360: Launching a year before the competition (likely).

Dreamcast: Highly anticipated First Party racing game from Bizarre Creations (Metropolis Street Racer).
Xbox 360: Highly anticipated First Party racing game from Bizarre Creations (Project Gotham Racing 3).
Some of those points really cracked me up, others are just downright bizarre (Mind the pun). Article courtesy of MaxConsole (http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=5435).

[SynapseLapse]

One BIG difference though. The xBox 360 , is not following up a Saturn/32x run.

I do find it kind of amusing how all these articles pitch upcoming systems like their rooting for prize fighters.

Dreamcast, "I coulda been a contenda!"

[Savok]

Man that's creepy. In the 10 reasons, I really wouldn't call the marketing team a plus.

And FF8 really came out against the Dreamcast? Not only was it the death of Final Fantasy, but it helped kill the DC with it, fantastic.

[SynapseLapse]

Reading that article really takes me back to the DC days. I think one of the reasons people get so bitter about the DC failure, aside from being unable to afford to also get the PS2, is it felt like games were starting to return to the roots that made us love it but nobody would give the DC a chance.

Incredible 2d titles like Bangai-o, tons of fighting games, crazy puzzle games like Mr. Driller, bizarre new experimental concept games like Seaman (Which yes, is just a microphone equipped Tamagotchi.) and the awesome Typing of the Dead, stunning games like Virtual On that FINALLY captured Anime mech fighting, the most woefully underplayed RPG of the century Skies of Arcadia. It seems like every time you turned around there was some new interesting title like Chu Chu Rocket. Or highly polished arcade titles like Zombie Revenge, Project Justice, Crazy Taxi, Power Stone and way too many fighting games to fully mention.

And nobody noticed. All people would talk about was how many Polygons were going to be in each player of the next madden game and how the PS2 would be so powerful that Toy Story could be done in real time on it.

It reminds me of being at a concert for your favorite band, still wearing the t-shirt you got at the first gig years and years ago. Only to look around and see all the high schoolers in the room are there to see the next band because it's the flavor of the month and your band is just the annoying opening act to them.

[Kelegacy]

Man that's creepy. In the 10 reasons, I really wouldn't call the marketing team a plus.

And FF8 really came out against the Dreamcast? Not only was it the death of Final Fantasy, but it helped kill the DC with it, fantastic.

Too bad FF12 wont be releasing alongside the 360. I would have liked that, just so I can play FF12 earlier. And it would have helped Sony out a bit, too.

[EvilBob46]

Nice article.


And FF8 really came out against the Dreamcast? Not only was it the death of Final Fantasy,

Whateva!

[SnappyCrunch]

They're really grasping for straws on the "Why the 360 will succeed" side. Seriously, "No Halo 3 on the Dreamcast", and "The Dreamcast has no backward compatability" while the 360 has "limited" backwards compatability. Does the 360 officially support any older games except Halo and Halo 2? Gimme a break. People like the Xbox because it's the most powerful console. Launching a full year before their competitors means MS is going to have the least powerful console in the coming generation.

[Taco]

MS has money Sega never had. Thus any comparisons drawn trying to conclude if the 360 will succeed or not are bogus.

[frederec]

...still wearing the t-shirt you got at the first gig years and years ago.

Man, hasn't anyone ever told you...Don't be that guy. The only time you should wear a t-shirt for a band you're going to see is if you bought one at the merch table and don't feel like carrying it so you put it on over your shirt. And even that is stretching it. You're not hardcore. Nobody cares. And the reason I know is because I listen to music that frequently has a fanbase of around a hundred or so people, so in theory I'm super hardcore. But you know what? I'm not, it doesn't matter. Please, don't be that guy. You're embarrassing all the other fans of the band.

[doubtingthomas]

Man, hasn't anyone ever told you...Don't be that guy. The only time you should wear a t-shirt for a band you're going to see is if you bought one at the merch table and don't feel like carrying it so you put it on over your shirt. And even that is stretching it. You're not hardcore. Nobody cares. And the reason I know is because I listen to music that frequently has a fanbase of around a hundred or so people, so in theory I'm super hardcore. But you know what? I'm not, it doesn't matter. Please, don't be that guy. You're embarrassing all the other fans of the band.

I concur. You NEVER wear a t-shirt of the band you are going to see. Only put one on if you bought it there that night. Ideally, you should wait until after the show to buy one and do that.

[EternalGamer]

Alot of great and really funny original comparisons in article, but the thing that made me most curious was the backwards compatibility comparison. They state that the 360 will be backwards compatible "mostly." Does 1up know something the rest of us don't know?

Dan

[EternalGamer]

They're really grasping for straws on the "Why the 360 will succeed" side. Seriously, "No Halo 3 on the Dreamcast", and "The Dreamcast has no backward compatability" while the 360 has "limited" backwards compatability. Does the 360 officially support any older games except Halo and Halo 2? Gimme a break. People like the Xbox because it's the most powerful console. Launching a full year before their competitors means MS is going to have the least powerful console in the coming generation.

Considering the second game was the fastest selling videogame ever, I'm not sure why you think Xbox having the Halo franchise isn't a significant difference. For your second point, none of us really know where backwards compatibility stands right now. But when he was questioned about it a month or so ago, Allard's reason for not releasing a list yet was "we are still pounding them through certification" and that new games were becoming compatible each day. I don't know about you, but if a rep is using terminology like "pounding them through," I would expect more than two or three games to be backwards compatible.

As far as your point about people liking Xbox because "it was the most powerful system," well, guess what? The 360 IS the most powerful system on the market for at least the next year. How many people in the general public do you think actually know the PS3 is releasing next Fall, let alone what it's technical specifications are? The people who are waiting because of the PS3 are not the mainstream market, they are gamers who make up a very small percentage of overall game sales. I am not saying only gamers will buy the PS3, what I am saying is the justificaiton of holding off on a Xbox360 because the PS3 will be more popular is gamer's logic; it will not enter into the minds of the average consumer considering purchase of a 360.

360 will have the technological advantage for the next year. PS3 will have it after that. What matters is how each uses the period in which they have that advantage to win the market.

Dan

[sonysyndicate]

MS has money Sega never had. Thus any comparisons drawn trying to conclude if the 360 will succeed or not are bogus.

What I am curious is whether or not Microsoft will make an Xbox 3 if the Xbox 360 losses money like it's predecessor.

<bias>I cannot wait until Sony releases the PS3 and puts the smack down on Microsoft.</bias>

http://img248.echo.cx/img248/7859/x360vsps30zh.png

[Taco]

What I am curious is whether or not Microsoft will make an Xbox 3 if the Xbox 360 losses money like it's predecessor.

Well, first off it won't lose as much as the XBox, they lost money striving for market penetration and they've done that. However, if they lost money on the 360 there still would be a third one. It's the way MS works. Keep on applying constant pressure until they come out on top.

[AzN.Homeboy]

I think the "No Halo 3" point is entirely valid. In fact so much that it should probably be #1. Success nowadays is just about having some big popular franchise. Never mind having a bucketful of quality games, if you don't have something popular, you aren't going to succeed. And quality very rarely leads to popularity, but somehow people associate popularity as quality.

[Captain Awesome]

Man, hasn't anyone ever told you...Don't be that guy. The only time you should wear a t-shirt for a band you're going to see is if you bought one at the merch table and don't feel like carrying it so you put it on over your shirt. And even that is stretching it. You're not hardcore. Nobody cares. And the reason I know is because I listen to music that frequently has a fanbase of around a hundred or so people, so in theory I'm super hardcore. But you know what? I'm not, it doesn't matter. Please, don't be that guy. You're embarrassing all the other fans of the band.

hahahahaha PCU. \m/

[Taco]

Thank you Captain. I couldn't remember where I heard that from.

[TrackZero]

They're really grasping for straws on the "Why the 360 will succeed" side. Seriously, "No Halo 3 on the Dreamcast", and "The Dreamcast has no backward compatability" while the 360 has "limited" backwards compatability. Does the 360 officially support any older games except Halo and Halo 2? Gimme a break. People like the Xbox because it's the most powerful console. Launching a full year before their competitors means MS is going to have the least powerful console in the coming generation.

That's not why I like the Xbox. I like it because:

1) It's got a harddrive that developers actually use. (Yes yes, go on about how the 360 won't have that, but I think it's obvious that this point that it'll still be used, judging just by the system sales alone (3/4 of everyone buying the "premium" package, the rest can buy their HD seperately).
2) Xbox Live!
3) The controller, the analog sticks feel tighter than the PS2s.
4) The games! Microsoft game studio does make some damn fun games, they have good developer support and no reason to not think the 360 won't continue to have kickass games made for it.

Also, it won't be the "least" powerful console, that'll be the Rev (but I'm still buying it too), and again, the PS2 was the least powerful console out right now (forgetting about the DC) and it was a success, so it's an invalid point.

Fundamentally, the 360 will be a success and capture MS even more market share. Whether they overtake Sony this generation or further down the road isn't really important. MS isn't going anywhere, they've got deep pockets and the commitment that they want your living room by any means necessary and the home console market is the way to do that. Comparing it to the DC is just good fun though, great article.

[The Iron Weasel]

The PS3 isn't all that more powerfull then the 360, they are about level, the 360 has around 4 things that gives them a little edge (easy to develop for, better video card, more ram, still has possiblity for hd use), the ps3 has one thing that gives them an edge (cell processor).

[Chagrinful]

The one major difference is that 360 will totally kill the entire gaming market altogether with its fucktarded games that are so simplistic even a monkey could win them, IE COD 2 and King Kong and well the list goes on. As 360 makes gaming more mainstream it also waters down all console ports to the pc and in general rapes gaming.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

How many people in the general public do you think actually know the PS3 is releasing next Fall, let alone what it's technical specifications are? The people who are waiting because of the PS3 are not the mainstream market, they are gamers who make up a very small percentage of overall game sales. I am not saying only gamers will buy the PS3, what I am saying is the justificaiton of holding off on a Xbox360 because the PS3 will be more popular is gamer's logic; it will not enter into the minds of the average consumer considering purchase of a 360.


Have you forgotten the Dreamcast launch? The mainstream definitely knew that the PS2 was coming a year later, and the vast majority of them held off, greatly leading to the DC's doom. The same thing could theoritically happen here, but of course there are many other factors involved.

I still remember going into Wal-Mart, Target, etc. and hearing "Don't buy a DC, wait for the PS2 which will be like a million times better!!"

[The Iron Weasel]

Once again, the Xbox was sucessful, the saturn was a abysmal failure.

[Taco]

My opinions on the matter.

1: The PS2, hardware wise, was a piece of shit. If you disagree you are wrong.
2: Right now from what we know the XBox 360 is more impressive. The PS3 may surprise me, however I am skeptical due to #1.
3: The PS3 will live and die based on the games(which is far and away their strong point), it can carry them through this generation but if they can't keep up with MS when it comes to the console itself they put themselves in a position to be second best.

[EternalGamer]

Once again, the Xbox was sucessful, the saturn was a abysmal failure.


Right, I think these two issues are actually tied together. And there certainly is some flux between the consensus inside the industry and the mainstream public. Yet I'm still not really sure how much the "wait till the PS3" sentiment actually effected the market success of the DC early on. Once the Sony marketing machine was full gear in the months heading towards the actual release and after, absolutely it was a factor. But early on in its life, I'm not convinced it was a huge factor.

Dan

[TrackZero]

The one major difference is that 360 will totally kill the entire gaming market altogether with its fucktarded games that are so simplistic even a monkey could win them, IE COD 2 and King Kong and well the list goes on. As 360 makes gaming more mainstream it also waters down all console ports to the pc and in general rapes gaming.

Yeah, like that Ninja Gaiden game they hyped, pffft, any cluebag can beat that. And Halo on legendary, I mean, COME ON, can it be anymore simple? </sarcasm>

[Rafer]

Yeah I wouldn't take this article too seriously, it's just a funny list of coinicidences, I'm surprised they didn't mentioned both the Dreamcast and 360 will both use water cooling tech.

And to call losing 4 billion dollars "successful" is a bit of a stretch to me.

As for Final Fantasy, personally I'm more interested in what Hironobu Sakaguchi comes up with for the 360 (Blue Dragon) than what Square is doing for the PS3, a lot of Square Enix stuff seems to be getting derivitive lately (except for the Level 5 stuff).

[The Iron Weasel]

The one major difference is that 360 will totally kill the entire gaming market altogether with its fucktarded games that are so simplistic even a monkey could win them, IE COD 2 and King Kong and well the list goes on. As 360 makes gaming more mainstream it also waters down all console ports to the pc and in general rapes gaming.

Why will the 360 do this and not any of the other consoles.....seriously if any console will do this it will be the PS3, considering thats going to be the most popular....

[Groo]

Yeah I wouldn't take this article too seriously, it's just a funny list of coinicidences, I'm surprised they didn't mentioned both the Dreamcast and 360 will both use water cooling tech.


The Dreamcast uses water cooling tech? This comes as news to me, and I've completely taken apart and reassembled a couple Dreamcasts.

[XenonCJ]

Man, hasn't anyone ever told you...Don't be that guy. The only time you should wear a t-shirt for a band you're going to see is if you bought one at the merch table and don't feel like carrying it so you put it on over your shirt. And even that is stretching it. You're not hardcore. Nobody cares. And the reason I know is because I listen to music that frequently has a fanbase of around a hundred or so people, so in theory I'm super hardcore. But you know what? I'm not, it doesn't matter. Please, don't be that guy. You're embarrassing all the other fans of the band.Now there's the kind of elitest bullshit comment I love to read on the internet. "you're not hardcore, but I'd be SUPERHARDCORE, if I wanted to be, which I don't, but remember you're not "hardcore""

GIVE ME A MOTHERFUCKING BREAK - I LAUGH AT YOU PEOPLE.

If the dude want's to wear a fucking band T-Shirt to a concert of the same band who gives a fuck? At least he's not a trivially concerned about weather elitest dumbfucks like you care what you think about him.

"please don't be that guy"

Look at yourself in the fucking mirror - moron.

[XenonCJ]

The Dreamcast uses water cooling tech? This comes as news to me, and I've completely taken apart and reassembled a couple Dreamcasts.Note : "WILL USE"

[EternalGamer]

Now there's the kind of elitest bullshit comment I love to read on the internet. "you're not hardcore, but I'd be SUPERHARDCORE, if I wanted to be, which I don't, but remember you're not "hardcore""


But if he didn't spend his time making up arbitrary rules of concert etiquette, he and his friends wouldn't be able to engage in the super fun ego building activity of sitting around and saying "Oh man, look at that guy" all the time.

Dan

[The Iron Weasel]

No, what that guy said is true, I heard it on Much Music once. :D

[TrackZero]

Reading that article really takes me back to the DC days. I think one of the reasons people get so bitter about the DC failure, aside from being unable to afford to also get the PS2, is it felt like games were starting to return to the roots that made us love it but nobody would give the DC a chance.

Incredible 2d titles like Bangai-o, tons of fighting games, crazy puzzle games like Mr. Driller, bizarre new experimental concept games like Seaman (Which yes, is just a microphone equipped Tamagotchi.) and the awesome Typing of the Dead, stunning games like Virtual On that FINALLY captured Anime mech fighting, the most woefully underplayed RPG of the century Skies of Arcadia. It seems like every time you turned around there was some new interesting title like Chu Chu Rocket. Or highly polished arcade titles like Zombie Revenge, Project Justice, Crazy Taxi, Power Stone and way too many fighting games to fully mention.

And nobody noticed. All people would talk about was how many Polygons were going to be in each player of the next madden game and how the PS2 would be so powerful that Toy Story could be done in real time on it.

It reminds me of being at a concert for your favorite band, still wearing the t-shirt you got at the first gig years and years ago. Only to look around and see all the high schoolers in the room are there to see the next band because it's the flavor of the month and your band is just the annoying opening act to them.

Oh you just HAD to go all nostalgia on me. Now I went and eBayed Street Fighter 3rd Strike (JP Import) and Virtual On. Damnit.

[WileE.Coyte]

I bet he doesn't wear white after labor day.

[Heretic Machine]

Launching a full year before their competitors means MS is going to have the least powerful console in the coming generation.

w00t! This statement is stupid on several levels. I hope you were joking, seriously.

[frederec]

But if he didn't spend his time making up arbitrary rules of concert etiquette, he and his friends wouldn't be able to engage in the super fun ego building activity of sitting around and saying "Oh man, look at that guy" all the time.

Dan

Exactly. Doesn't everyone go to clubs just to point at people and laugh? And if you're going to have rules, be arbitrary.

The reason I think it's silly is that wearing the band's t-shirt to a show is like going to Otakon wearing a shirt that says "I love anime." You just look goofy advertising something obvious. Honestly, people can wear whatever they want, and it's cool. I just reserve the right to make fun of them for my own stupid reasons. Hell, I wear blue jeans to goth clubs, so I'm not really good at looking cool anyway.

[markster3000]

Hmm... they need a bit of a correction...

It was Final Fantasy 9 that came out at the same time as the Dreamcast.
And while Windows CE was indeed used for some DC development, a majority of games ran off an in-house Sega OS. (The Windows CE based games usually proclaimed it in one of the introductory screens)

But overall, that list is quite uncanny.

the swirl comparison is awesome.

[earthworm48]

No it was 8.

[markster3000]

*checks facts*
Bah, I felt really sure about that.

Man, it really came out after the PS2? (Nov 17 vs. Oct 26, '00)

I stand corrected.

[01010]

Now there's the kind of elitest bullshit comment I love to read on the internet. "you're not hardcore, but I'd be SUPERHARDCORE, if I wanted to be, which I don't, but remember you're not "hardcore""

GIVE ME A MOTHERFUCKING BREAK - I LAUGH AT YOU PEOPLE.

If the dude want's to wear a fucking band T-Shirt to a concert of the same band who gives a fuck? At least he's not a trivially concerned about weather elitest dumbfucks like you care what you think about him.

"please don't be that guy"

Look at yourself in the fucking mirror - moron.

You are an evolved man. Nice to hear a sensible voice.

[Kelegacy]

*checks facts*
Bah, I felt really sure about that.

Man, it really came out after the PS2? (Nov 17 vs. Oct 26, '00)

I stand corrected.

Yeah, I remember buying 8 a bit after I entered college in '99. The Dreamcast just came out then. I bought it to help me smooth away the rough transition into the big U. It didn't really help though, as my 1st semester was tough. That's the only reason I remember the Dreamcast/FF8 release.

Weird though, how the PS1 kept getting stellar releases even after the PS2 was out. FF12 might hit the PS2 in the states after the PS3 is launched in Japan. I think they should just push the game into the PS3 launch schedule, as that would sell so many fucking systems it wouldn't be funny. Square could work something out with Sony and basically get a license to print money. It would be well with it for Sony, that's for sure.

[Schnoogs]

What I am curious is whether or not Microsoft will make an Xbox 3 if the Xbox 360 losses money like it's predecessor.

<bias>I cannot wait until Sony releases the PS3 and puts the smack down on Microsoft.</bias>

http://img248.echo.cx/img248/7859/x360vsps30zh.png

It cracks me up that people like yourself actually take sides...its like someone being loyal to AMD over Intel. I freaken buy what CPU at that moment is the best choice...that's called being an inteligent and informed consumer.

Unless you work for Sony why do you care?? These aren't sports teams...the mentality of some people is so illogical it hurts. Why would you root for a brand?? It's all about the games and gaming.

It's like the fools who take sides in Star Wars vs LOTR...it's not a contest. Like what you want and be open to both. If the 360 is better be a rational person and acknowledge it for so...you act like it's personal. I could care less whether Sony wins or not...I just want a cool console to have fun with.

[Kelegacy]

Yeah, like that Ninja Gaiden game they hyped, pffft, any cluebag can beat that. And Halo on legendary, I mean, COME ON, can it be anymore simple? </sarcasm>

I think MS is missing a lot in their gaming library. Of course, this could be because they don't have the complete support of Japan...no, actually that's exactly the reason. I wish there were more games like Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, a healthy crop of RPGs, etc on the Xbox. That's why I love the PS2, and will probably enjoy the PS3. You cant get an experience like SotC on the Xbox, that's for sure.

Then again, that's why I own all 3 systems. Each one has it's own weaknesses, so I have to get all 3 to fulfill my needs.

[Zeal]

Lets hope 360 really is another Dreamcast. It was a system years ahead of its time.

[The Iron Weasel]

I think MS is missing a lot in their gaming library. Of course, this could be because they don't have the complete support of Japan...no, actually that's exactly the reason. I wish there were more games like Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, a healthy crop of RPGs, etc on the Xbox. That's why I love the PS2, and will probably enjoy the PS3. You cant get an experience like SotC on the Xbox, that's for sure.

Then again, that's why I own all 3 systems. Each one has it's own weaknesses, so I have to get all 3 to fulfill my needs.

That has to be one of the most level headed, things said about all the consoles. Bravo.

[H.Bogard]

Lets hope 360 really is another Dreamcast. It was a system years ahead of its time.

Right back at the PSP!

[if76]

This article definitely has a scent of PS3 bias. The fact that they're comparing the new xbox to a doomed system is just the start. Then there are things like

#19: Software medium (DVD-9) criticized as having not enough capacity by "some" developers.

Now I've heard a lot of fanboys complain about this but not too many developers. The textures on next gen console games won't take up any more memory than those on today's highend PC games and there hasn't been a PC game that's had trouble fitting on a DVD. I guess if hours and hours of highdef video were necessary then developers could use multiple DVDs. My guess is more developers would like a medium wiht faster read times (DVD-9) rather than more storage space.

#2: Facing a "far superior" next-generation Playstation console that wowed gamers with fancy tech demos.

Now I realize that "far superior" is in quotes but 1up really doesn't need to fan the flames. They could have phrased this in a lot of ways to make the point clearer that the PS3 is NOT in fact much better in terms of capabilities than the X360 if at all. How about "Facing a barrage of marketing hype by Sony to make their console look technically far superior"?

I just think this whole article is a bit suspect and probably written by a sony fanboy.

[Tohoya]

Remember, the Xbox was supposed to have Square support but it didn't end up panning out. I wouldn't be surprised if FFXI is the only Square game on the xbox 360.

[Loganrapp]

The one major difference is that 360 will totally kill the entire gaming market altogether with its fucktarded games that are so simplistic even a monkey could win them, IE COD 2 and King Kong and well the list goes on. As 360 makes gaming more mainstream it also waters down all console ports to the pc and in general rapes gaming.


Oh my God! It rapes gaming?!

Give me a break. That sounds exactly like some whiny Modest Mouse fan who complained that their music "wasn't good anymore" because now "everyone" listened to them.

Guess what another word for mainstream is? Popular. We're living in the first generation of adults in which the majority of those adults were brought up on video games. Which means their kids and so on will be gamers. Get used to it.

[Achilles]

Remember, the Xbox was supposed to have Square support but it didn't end up panning out. I wouldn't be surprised if FFXI is the only Square game on the xbox 360.Honestly I'll take Mistwalker and Nippon Ichi over Square. But it would be great if they could get all three. The one major difference is that 360 will totally kill the entire gaming market altogether with its fucktarded games that are so simplistic even a monkey could win them, IE COD 2 and King Kong and well the list goes on. As 360 makes gaming more mainstream it also waters down all console ports to the pc and in general rapes gaming.Yeah, games that are easy to understand suck. The challenge should be in the complexity of the controls and figuring out why you're losing, not in the levels and AI. I long for the days of complex games like Golden Axe and Robotron, ah the Golden Age.

The Xbox has games that are easy to play and games that are hard to play, the ones that are easy to play sell better because the player can concentrate on the game rather than figuring out how to play it. This trend will continue into the future.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

One, the Dreamcast controller sucked. Two, Sega had just burned everyone who bought a 32x, Sega CD and Sega Saturn. That alone guaranteed that a lot of people weren't going to plunk down cash to get a system they thought would be made obsolete after a year or two....by the machine's manufacturer. Rampnat piracy issues hurt the Dreamcast on some levels, but made it very popular with modders. Which, contrary to the opinions expressed from time to time, is a very small community in comparison to mainstream gamers.

The biggest challenge facing MS is whether they can convince enough PS3 fans to stop waiting for the PS3. Will MS have enough desirable software and features soon enough to convince some people that they can't wait for PS3 and they must start gaming w/360 now? It depends heavily upon which titles are released and when the PS3 release dates hit US and Europe.

[Spigot]

Man that's creepy. In the 10 reasons, I really wouldn't call the marketing team a plus.

And FF8 really came out against the Dreamcast? Not only was it the death of Final Fantasy, but it helped kill the DC with it, fantastic.

Heresy! I loved FF8. It wasn't the best Final Fantasy but it probably had the best ending of the lot. It's one of the few games that had an ending that made me cry... I'm such a wuss.

[sonysyndicate]

Unless you work for Sony why do you care?? These aren't sports teams...the mentality of some people is so illogical it hurts. Why would you root for a brand?? It's all about the games and gaming.

It's like the fools who take sides in Star Wars vs LOTR...it's not a contest. Like what you want and be open to both. If the 360 is better be a rational person and acknowledge it for so...you act like it's personal. I could care less whether Sony wins or not...I just want a cool console to have fun with.

I do work for Sony, but not in the game division.

[Spigot]

I still think that the lack of backwards compatibility is not good for the Xbox. Yeah, sure, it has backwards compatibility but only on some of the games and most of them are just the triple-A games. If I were to go out and buy an Xbox 360 at launch, I'd expect all of the games in my collection to work on it.

Heck, that's the reason I got a PS2 at launch. I had an enormous library of PS1 games and being able to play them on a faster system with texture smoothing was one of the main selling points for me. Vagrant Story and Xenogears never looked so good!

I just can't get myself excited enough over a bunch of sports games (which seems to be the bulk of the launch titles) to run out and spend $500 Canadian on the 360. I'll probably get one in a year or two after they drop the price, much like what I did with the original Xbox. I'll just be waiting in line for my copy of Dragon Warrior 8 in a couple weeks instead of the 360.

[EternalGamer]

If people were "burned" by the Saturn it was their own fault. They obviously weren't putting any effort into finding good games because there were plenty of them. Great 1st party software, and even a few of the big Playstation franchises like Tomb Raider and Resident Evil found their way onto it

Dan

[Kelegacy]

Honestly I'll take Mistwalker and Nippon Ichi over Square. But it would be great if they could get all three. Yeah, games that are easy to understand suck. The challenge should be in the complexity of the controls and figuring out why you're losing, not in the levels and AI. I long for the days of complex games like Golden Axe and Robotron, ah the Golden Age.

The Xbox has games that are easy to play and games that are hard to play, the ones that are easy to play sell better because the player can concentrate on the game rather than figuring out how to play it. This trend will continue into the future.
You'd rather have Mistwalker over SquareEnix? What has Mistwalker put out so far? Am I missing something?

I don't think Chagrinful meant that Xbox has easy games to play. I think he meant that there aren't many games that truly offer up a completely new gaming experience on the Xbox. Now I'm going to be assraped for saying that maybe, but besides KotoR the Xbox had very little in the way of unique, exclusive RPGs, and KotoR wasn't unique or exclusive. Halo bent the mold a bit for console games, and Ninja Gaiden turned out to be the epitome of action gaming. But many of the Xbox games have a common thread--arcade action/fighting/racing. The Xbox isn't a completely versatile genre machine. The Gamecube isn't either, but offers highly polished 1st party stuff. The PS2 is probably the most rounded in terms of games and genres, offering highly unique games like Katamari and Guitar Hero, as well as popular franchises like MGS and great action IPs like God of War. That's not to mention the Atlus games (Shin Megami Tensei series, Wizardry: The Forsaken Land), Nippon Ichi's SRPGs, and the massive doses of great JRPGs.

[Spigot]

Then again, that's why I own all 3 systems. Each one has it's own weaknesses, so I have to get all 3 to fulfill my needs.

Man, we're too much alike.

I agree. Xbox is my workhorse platform. If a game comes out on all the systems, I get the Xbox version because a) it has the hard drive and all that it entails and b) it tends to be the nicest looking version of a game.

PS2 is for my wierd, quirky games, exclusive platformers and JRPG's.

The Cube is for the Nintendo exclusives.

And this isn't even touching on the various handheld platforms!

Anyway, I just want to see someone do a next-gen version of Incredible Crisis. That would just make my day.

[Achilles]

You'd rather have Mistwalker over SquareEnix? What has Mistwalker put out so far? Am I missing something?

I don't think Chagrinful meant that Xbox has easy games to play. I think he meant that there aren't many games that truly offer up a completely new gaming experience on the Xbox.I don't know how you got that out of Chagrinful's post. At best he was saying games could be beat by a monkey and they should be harder. At worse he was saying they were too simple and should be harder to play.

Mistwalker hasn't made anything yet, but man, I tell ya, I haven't really been impressed with recent Squeenix stuff. I preferred even FFIX to FFX, and FFX2 fell off the deep end with its real time combat system. If the guys who made all the original FF games split to make Mistwalker I'm looking forward to it more than I'm enjoying playing the games that Squenix has put out recently. Maybe FFXII will turn it around, it certainly looks cool, but its combat is real-time and similar to FFXI last I heard, and that worries the heck out of me.

[Kelegacy]

One, the Dreamcast controller sucked. Two, Sega had just burned everyone who bought a 32x, Sega CD and Sega Saturn. That alone guaranteed that a lot of people weren't going to plunk down cash to get a system they thought would be made obsolete after a year or two....by the machine's manufacturer. Rampnat piracy issues hurt the Dreamcast on some levels, but made it very popular with modders. Which, contrary to the opinions expressed from time to time, is a very small community in comparison to mainstream gamers.

The biggest challenge facing MS is whether they can convince enough PS3 fans to stop waiting for the PS3. Will MS have enough desirable software and features soon enough to convince some people that they can't wait for PS3 and they must start gaming w/360 now? It depends heavily upon which titles are released and when the PS3 release dates hit US and Europe.

Sega CD rocked!! Well, I don't know, but I loved it. It got me hooked on Monkey Island, Willy Beamish and sent me into a downward spiral of adventure games on the PC, only to wake up one morning with Sierra residue around my nose, LucasArts leaking out of my anus, and suddenly it was all over. The television blared the end of great adventure gaming, so I showered and left the motel in mournful silence.

[EternalGamer]

You'd rather have Mistwalker over SquareEnix? What has Mistwalker put out so far? Am I missing something?

I don't think Chagrinful meant that Xbox has easy games to play. I think he meant that there aren't many games that truly offer up a completely new gaming experience on the Xbox. Now I'm going to be assraped for saying that maybe, but besides KotoR the Xbox had very little in the way of unique, exclusive RPGs, and KotoR wasn't unique or exclusive. Halo bent the mold a bit for console games, and Ninja Gaiden turned out to be the epitome of action gaming. But many of the Xbox games have a common thread--arcade action/fighting/racing. The Xbox isn't a completely versatile genre machine. The Gamecube isn't either, but offers highly polished 1st party stuff. The PS2 is probably the most rounded in terms of games and genres, offering highly unique games like Katamari and Guitar Hero, as well as popular franchises like MGS and great action IPs like God of War. That's not to mention the Atlus games (Shin Megami Tensei series, Wizardry: The Forsaken Land), Nippon Ichi's SRPGs, and the massive doses of great JRPGs.


I think the Xbox had pretty close to as many great original titles as any other system, it's just that the virtues of said games weren't sung as loudly. OddWorld: Munch's Oddyssey and Stranger's Wraith were both highly original games in concept, story, atmosophere and gameplay. Jet Grind Radio Future, while a sequel, was still quiet unique and one of the few games that focuses on attittude and atmosphere; style as substance if you will. Shenmue II only saw U.S. release on the Xbox, and (regardless of what you think of it) it was a highly original gameplay experience. Psychonaughts is essentially a Xbox original game, but at the last minute it got ported via crippled PS2 version. Otogi 1 &2, and Orta, I think also belong on that list, for atmosphere if not for gameplay.

Dan

[Kelegacy]

I think the Xbox had pretty close to as many great original titles as any other system, it's just that the virtues of said games weren't sung as loudly. OddWorld: Munch's Oddyssey and Stranger's Wraith were both highly original games in concept, story, atmosophere and gameplay. Jet Grind Radio Future, while a sequel, was still quiet unique and one of the few games that focuses on attittude and atmosphere; style as substance if you will. Shenmue II only saw U.S. release on the Xbox, and (regardless of what you think of it) it was a highly original gameplay experience. Psychonaughts is essentially a Xbox original game, but at the last minute it got ported via crippled PS2 version. Otogi 1 &2, and Orta, I think also belong on that list, for atmosphere if not for gameplay.

Dan

I thought Psychonauts was intended to be a PC game at first? Either way, I tried not to count multiplatform titles. I played Shenmue 2 on the DC (with English subtitles), and wasn't Jet Grind a port of the DC game, with a few new tweaks? I haven't played Munch's Oddyssey, though I own it. I tried Otogi at a bad time when I was sick of action games with multihit combos. I played Stranger's Wrath, but I also lost interest. Maybe I was busy at the time, I can't remember.

[EternalGamer]

JSRF was a completely new game. As far as I remember, Psychonaughts was actually financed by Microsoft, who, at almost the last minute, decided not to publish it.

But you are really missing out if you haven't played the two Oddworld games on Xbox, they are, in my opinion, two of the best games this generation. Stranger's Wraith takes an incredible change of pace about half way through and has battles to rival anything in Halo (both in size and intensity). But it's the storyline of both that I thought really made them so worthwhile. Both games had very significant socially conscious themes built into their storylines and dealt with them in a significant way. Highly rare to see that type of substance in any videogame.

Dan

[Magnanimous Gnome]

The textures on next gen console games won't take up any more memory than those on today's highend PC games and there hasn't been a PC game that's had trouble fitting on a DVD.


That's because PC games install to the harddrive. This isn't something that can be done on the 360, so it does make a difference. You can't compare the size of PC games with the size of console games.

Besides, most PC games come on multiple CDs these days, not one DVD. I have PC games that are on 5 or more CDs. Luckily I only have to switch them once during install. On the consoles, multi-disk gaming is a much bigger PITA.

[KamaItachi]

One of the reasons I bought the Dc in the first place was because of the great line up of first party games on the Saturn. The Sega cd sucked for the most part, but it had sonic CD and an arcade perfect version of Final Fight which were worth the (cheap, second hand) purchase themselves.

I think it's very easy to overlook a lot of the good exclusives because ironically they're overshadowed by other titles like Halo and KotoR. As mentioned before, Otogi, 1&2, JSRF, Panzer Dragoon Orta (shame on anyone who missed this) Kingdom Under Fire, Phantom Dust.

The distinct lack of RPGs will hurt it in the eyes of many people, but MS is obviously doing something about this as much as possible for the next generation with 2 RPGs at launch in Japan, including an MMORPG with another good handful in the pipeline, HOPEFULLY including True Fantasy Online.

[SynapseLapse]

Man, hasn't anyone ever told you...Don't be that guy. The only time you should wear a t-shirt for a band you're going to see is if you bought one at the merch table and don't feel like carrying it so you put it on over your shirt. And even that is stretching it. You're not hardcore. Nobody cares. And the reason I know is because I listen to music that frequently has a fanbase of around a hundred or so people, so in theory I'm super hardcore. But you know what? I'm not, it doesn't matter. Please, don't be that guy. You're embarrassing all the other fans of the band.

Truthfully, I don't own a single band t-shirt.
Here's a hard and fast rule, don't write analogies after you've been up all night, because they make no goddamn sense.

All right, how about this, it's like standing in line to buy tickets for your favorite band (Porcupine Tree), while a bunch of highschoolers are there to buy tickets to some crappy flavor of the month band (Lifehouse). Or insert the titles of whatever band you like, and whatever band you find trite and popish.

[Spigot]

I think the Xbox had pretty close to as many great original titles as any other system, it's just that the virtues of said games weren't sung as loudly. OddWorld: Munch's Oddyssey and Stranger's Wraith were both highly original games in concept, story, atmosophere and gameplay. Jet Grind Radio Future, while a sequel, was still quiet unique and one of the few games that focuses on attittude and atmosphere; style as substance if you will. Shenmue II only saw U.S. release on the Xbox, and (regardless of what you think of it) it was a highly original gameplay experience. Psychonaughts is essentially a Xbox original game, but at the last minute it got ported via crippled PS2 version. Otogi 1 &2, and Orta, I think also belong on that list, for atmosphere if not for gameplay.

Dan

Unfortunately, that's about it for the list of Xbox games that are really outside the norm. They're all great (aside from Shenmue 2... the DC version was infinately better albeit only available as an import).

You could also add Phantom Dust and... hmm... I can't think of any other Xbox exclusives that were really that out there.

If anyone adds Sudeki to the list I'll send Kelegacy after you.

[Achilles]

If anyone adds Sudeki to the list I'll send Kelegacy after you.I don't know man, a first person shooter quasi-japanese fantasy RPG that clocked in at about 12 hours long? That's pretty damn weird if you ask me.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

(aside from Shenmue 2... the DC version was infinately better...).


How so?





The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[Spigot]

That's because PC games install to the harddrive. This isn't something that can be done on the 360, so it does make a difference. You can't compare the size of PC games with the size of console games.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but this is something that could have been easily implemented had MS actually chosen the version of 360 WITH the HD as the standard instead of releasing the crippled "Core" system.

But that's neither here nor there.

Besides, most PC games come on multiple CDs these days, not one DVD. I have PC games that are on 5 or more CDs. Luckily I only have to switch them once during install. On the consoles, multi-disk gaming is a much bigger PITA.

Actually, more and more games are coming out on one DVD as opposed to multiple CD's. It's just that DVD drives have not yet become the norm in the home computer installed base (though it's pretty much at that stage now). Once that becomes the case, I'm sure that manufacturers and publishers will be releasing PC games on one DVD as it would cut down on the time for pressing all the CD's and also it's one DVD as opposed to, what, 3-4 CD's? Costs less to ship that way.

Of course, all of the above is wild conjecture and fantastic hyperbole. I just think it's common sense. But I still love consoles due to their ease of use and the fact that some games just need to be played while lying on your couch. Once everyone has their PC hooked up to their giant 80" TV and monitors, as such, are a thing of the past, well, that will be the time when PC games and console games will have lost much of the distinction.

[Spigot]

The DC version of Shenmue 2 was infinately better than the Xbox version for one simple reason.

The voiceovers.

The Xbox version has one of the most atrocious voiceovers of all time. It's almost as bad as the original NA version of Shenmue 1 on the DC. Almost.

The DC version had all of the characters speaking in their 'actual' languages. Some would speak Japanese, some Cantonese, some Mandarin. It lent an air of authenticity to the world that the Xbox monotone-fest sorely lacked.

Technically the Xbox version pushed more polygons, but after playing the DC version of Shenmue 2, I just couldn't spend a lot of time with the Xbox version.

As for Sudeki, it was just a horrid game. There was one character that actually had a personality that didn't make me want to beat him with my controller. It had some neat ideas, but the execution was just bad.

I think it was the character design more than anything that made me loathe Sudeki. That, and it felt too much like it was a game TRYING to be a JRPG as opposed to being its own game.

Did that make sense? I'm half dazed by the flu so take any lack of coherence with a grain of tylenol.

[Achilles]

As for Sudeki, it was just a horrid game. There was one character that actually had a personality that didn't make me want to beat him with my controller. It had some neat ideas, but the execution was just bad.

I think it was the character design more than anything that made me loathe Sudeki. That, and it felt too much like it was a game TRYING to be a JRPG as opposed to being its own game.

Did that make sense? I'm half dazed by the flu so take any lack of coherence with a grain of tylenol.No that all made sense, and I can't disagree with any of it. The character design was like Marketing's vision of a JRPG. It was really sick actually, and not the Californian version of "sick", I mean it made me sad/ill to think about. However the game is weird, you have to give it that.

Like list off some of the different fringe games for PS2. I imainge crap like Stretch Panic would make its way onto that list because it's too damn weird to ignore.

Oh actually for Xbox, Cel Damage. I know it came out on the other systems later, but it was originally for Xbox, and a fairly original car combat game. And Death Row of course. Not to mention Chase Hollywood Stunt Driver, which was probably the best of the failed stunt car genre. The problem with fringe games is for the most part nobody buys them, so people forget that they came out.

[Kelegacy]

The DC version of Shenmue 2 was infinately better than the Xbox version for one simple reason.

The voiceovers.

The Xbox version has one of the most atrocious voiceovers of all time. It's almost as bad as the original NA version of Shenmue 1 on the DC. Almost.

The DC version had all of the characters speaking in their 'actual' languages. Some would speak Japanese, some Cantonese, some Mandarin. It lent an air of authenticity to the world that the Xbox monotone-fest sorely lacked.

Technically the Xbox version pushed more polygons, but after playing the DC version of Shenmue 2, I just couldn't spend a lot of time with the Xbox version.

As for Sudeki, it was just a horrid game. There was one character that actually had a personality that didn't make me want to beat him with my controller. It had some neat ideas, but the execution was just bad.

I think it was the character design more than anything that made me loathe Sudeki. That, and it felt too much like it was a game TRYING to be a JRPG as opposed to being its own game.

Did that make sense? I'm half dazed by the flu so take any lack of coherence with a grain of tylenol.

No, that pretty much all made sense. Sudeki was a bad JRPG that wasn't even from Japan. Lackluster on all accounts. I actually stopped playing it and started masturbating with an SOS pad. More fun was had.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

The Dreamcast uses water cooling tech?

The early Japanese-manufactured models did. Most of the American units were made in China and used a revised version of the CPU that didn't give off as much heat, so the water cooling system was removed.

[Spigot]

No that all made sense, and I can't disagree with any of it. The character design was like Marketing's vision of a JRPG. It was really sick actually, and not the Californian version of "sick", I mean it made me sad/ill to think about. However the game is weird, you have to give it that.
<snip>
Oh actually for Xbox ... Death Row of course.

That's exactly what I was trying to say. It did feel a lot like you had a bunch of the proverbial 'suits' sitting in a room, looking at screenshots from a JRPG and trying to figure out how to take all of that and make their own version.

Like I said, there were some neat concepts with Sudeki. I liked the world itself and the lore behind everything. I just couldn't stand the characters or most of the gameplay.

As for Death Row, I may be the only person who didn't really enjoy it. I bought it used a while ago and tried it out for a bit and couldn't understand why it had been getting such good buzz from people. *shrug* I guess it just wasn't my cup of tea.

[Achilles]

As for Death Row, I may be the only person who didn't really enjoy it. I bought it used a while ago and tried it out for a bit and couldn't understand why it had been getting such good buzz from people. *shrug* I guess it just wasn't my cup of tea.I have a friend that felt the same way, then he realized that he was only trying to play the 'game' part of death row rather than the 'beat on everyone till they die' part of death row. You can't actually do well at the game Deathrow till you get more experience and level up your team, so you just have to destroy the other team in early leagues.

If you've already tried that, well you're probably right that it's not your cup of tea. Nothing wrong with that.

[Spigot]

I have a friend that felt the same way, then he realized that he was only trying to play the 'game' part of death row rather than the 'beat on everyone till they die' part of death row. You can't actually do well at the game Deathrow till you get more experience and level up your team, so you just have to destroy the other team in early leagues.

Hmm... I'll have to try that. I was trying to play the 'game' part of it rather than beating the snot out of the other team... hmm...

I'll take it under advisement and try it out whenever I can track down a copy again :)

[Achilles]

Hmm... I'll have to try that. I was trying to play the 'game' part of it rather than beating the snot out of the other team... hmm...

I'll take it under advisement and try it out whenever I can track down a copy again :)Yep, if they had just explained that part better it would have been much easier for people to get into their game. 2 important things they don't tell you:

1. You can beat people till they die; as in they're not in the next round because they're dead.
2. If you kill everyone you win no matter what the score is.

The option to win by either TKO or score is what makes Death Row so great. :)

[bjornbarspingvinen]

It´s weird to see so many Saturn and dreamcast bashers, anyone who likes game could find great games for those systems. The saturn had all-time favourites like Sega rally, VF2, Guardian heroes, Decathlete etc etc...

Stop the fan-boy attitude....
It´s hilarious that some people say Sega fooled their customers with Saturn when the same people can´t see how sony fooled so many with their "emotion engine"....

[Taco]

One, the Dreamcast controller sucked.

No it didn't. I'd say only the 360 controller surpasses it.

Launching a full year before their competitors means MS is going to have the least powerful console in the coming generation.

Dreamcast games looked as good or better than PS2 games, despite the time difference.

[dr_wily]

Now there's the kind of elitest bullshit comment I love to read on the internet. "you're not hardcore, but I'd be SUPERHARDCORE, if I wanted to be, which I don't, but remember you're not "hardcore""

GIVE ME A MOTHERFUCKING BREAK - I LAUGH AT YOU PEOPLE.

If the dude want's to wear a fucking band T-Shirt to a concert of the same band who gives a fuck? At least he's not a trivially concerned about weather elitest dumbfucks like you care what you think about him.

"please don't be that guy"

Look at yourself in the fucking mirror - moron.

i concur, i am a man who wears band tshirts, and i have never had anyone tell me im lame for wearing it. in fact, i usually get kudos and questions on where I got it and when. I have to represent baby.

DC is still probably my favorite console. So many quality games, and unique games too. The whole waiting for the PS2 didnt register in any of our camps, because we were too busy enjoying the DC, instead of saving money for the PS2 a whole fricken year later. I wish people would blubber about jet grind/jet set like they do about ICO, JGR was just.. wow.

Other highlights include
Loony Toons racing
fur fighters
grandia 2
skies (of course)
cannon spike (!!!)
chu chu rocket
powerstone 1 and 2 (god i wish/pray for another one)
virtua tennis
nfl 2k (RIP)
every fighter port ever
soul caliber
Samba de Amigo
Wacky Races
actual use of the light gun (even an original: Confidential Mission)

.. phew.

[Spigot]

I bought my Xbox especially to play JSRF. JGR was one of my favourite games of all time. It and Skies of Arcadia were probably the best games on the DC. Well, and Seaman. Crazy, crazy Seaman.

[Kelegacy]

I bought my Xbox especially to play JSRF. JGR was one of my favourite games of all time. It and Skies of Arcadia were probably the best games on the DC. Well, and Seaman. Crazy, crazy Seaman.
I fell asleep on the couch one hot afternoon after playing that game, not realizing the case was under my head. I woke up hours later, sweaty, with Seaman stuck to my face.

Then again, that sums up about every free afternoon in the Kelegacy household.