Sony Rootkit DRM Hides Cheaters in WoW

[net7runner]

SecurityFocus is reporting (http://www.securityfocus.com/brief/34) that Sony's new version of DRM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management), which installs a rootkit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit) on your computer and hacks your optical drive drivers, allows people to cheat in World of Warcraft without being deteced.

Want to cheat in your online game and not get caught? Just buy a Sony BMG copy protected CD.

World of Warcraft hackers have confirmed that the hiding capabilities of Sony BMG's content protection software can make tools made for cheating in the online world impossible to detect.
Thanks to Hard|OCP (http://www.hardocp.com)

[Deathbane27]

Buwahahaha.

Too bad it disables your ability to burn CDs along with it. :p

[Subbacultcha]

I've said it before, but PCs are going to be hit by tsunami of rootkit-based hacks and exploits really soon. When MMORPG cheaters start using these things, that's as sure a sign as any that the rootkit-plague is going mainstream.

[Subbacultcha]

... and when a say hacks and exploits, I mean crippling damage to people's Windows installations, not just cheating. Undetectable trojans and keystroke-loggers are 100% feasible on any computer which has been compromised by Sony's DRM.

[ddbrown30]

Great idea posting this on a mainstream news site. Now we can be sure everyone who wants to cheat knows how.

[lpmiller]

frankly, if i were microsoft, I'd pull Sony's windows license. Because what they did is take windows security and swiss cheese it all to hell. Which frankly, Microsoft doesn't really need any help with.

Also, expect a class action lawsuit against Sony/BMG.

[The Iron Weasel]

Great idea posting this on a mainstream news site. Now we can be sure everyone who wants to cheat knows how.

Also now everyone knows not to put a CD with sony copy protection into their computer. Because it compromises the security of your computer....I think one is a little more important then the other. Unless your one of the people that needs WoW more then air.

I have to say, Sony is just having one fuck-up after another these days....this is just getting rediculous.

[Talltale]

Wonder if Sony's tech is working against them in thier own MMO's.. (=

[lpmiller]

Great idea posting this on a mainstream news site. Now we can be sure everyone who wants to cheat knows how.

Yes, because cheaters and hackers only read evil avatar, and not cnet, slashdot, or any of the other mainstream press sites, nor do they know how to use google and type in "cheating in wow."

[ddbrown30]

I didn't say they didn't and I wasn't talking about the people who make the cheats. For instance, Joe Regular comes onto this site, sees that he can cheat and is then motivated to go look for them. My point is that this just informed a huge chunk of people that something that hasn't been possible for a year is now within reach.

[Scull]

How can Sony even remotely think that it is okay to rootkit a computer? That's just a security nightmare waiting to happen. And before the MS bashers show up, rootkits aren't only Windows problems.

[ddbrown30]

Also now everyone knows not to put a CD with sony copy protection into their computer. Because it compromises the security of your computer....I think one is a little more important then the other. Unless your one of the people that needs WoW more then air.

I have to say, Sony is just having one fuck-up after another these days....this is just getting rediculous.

This post doesn't deter anyone from using it. One of the comments does, but the post basically advertises that you can cheat.

[Goronmon]

For stuff like this, I think the faster its made public and the more people know about it, the faster steps are taken to correct the problem and the less chance of something similar happening in the future.

[Savok]

This is why I hate Sony.

Anyone got a list of things which will fuck your computer?

[Atrapas]

This is why I hate Sony.

Anyone got a list of things which will fuck your computer?


1. A hammer.
2. A 30 foot fall
3. A running drop kick
4. The death star
5. A cup of gasoline (See #6)
6. A match
7. Being hit by a car
8. A Korn mosh pit

The list goes on and on..

[The Iron Weasel]

1. A hammer.
2. A 30 foot fall
3. A running drop kick
4. The death star
5. A cup of gasoline (See #6)
6. A match
7. Being hit by a car
8. A Korn mosh pit

The list goes on and on..

KoRn...phhh...they're not heavy...now a Blood Has Been Shed mosh will fuck your computer up something nasty....a Cradle Of Filth one would be even worse...

[DoubleUranium]

I don't understand how it is legal for Sony to modify your PC in any way without your permission. This news has been all over the place - I can't believe a class action suit hasn't been filed yet. This is a nightmare for everyone b/c if 50,000 put these CDs in their computer, that's 50,000 spam/dos bots out there, except it can be undetectable to anti virus tools.

[Savok]

Yes yes, very funny. I mean Sony's parasiteware.

[Everlost_MI]

KoRn...phhh...they're not heavy...now a Blood Has Been Shed mosh will fuck your computer up something nasty....a Cradle Of Filth one would be even worse...

I was thinking more of Slayer, Lamb of God or Deicide.

[Kagger]

Ok. I see that it somehow lets you not be detected while cheating, but how could this help someone get a virus on my computer? I see that it will mask an exploit while playing a game...but how can it be used to add something to another computer?

[Savok]

Ever sit on the Internet for 5 minutes without a real firewall? You'll get a virus of some sort, happened on a fresh install of Windows I did for someone.

[The Iron Weasel]

I was thinking more of Slayer, Lamb of God or Deicide.

Yeah, they'll fuck your computer up something nasty aswell.

[doubtingthomas]

I didn't say they didn't and I wasn't talking about the people who make the cheats. For instance, Joe Regular comes onto this site, sees that he can cheat and is then motivated to go look for them. My point is that this just informed a huge chunk of people that something that hasn't been possible for a year is now within reach.

By that rationale, gun advertisements cause shooting deaths.

[Heretic Machine]

This post doesn't deter anyone from using it. One of the comments does, but the post basically advertises that you can cheat.

Ok, the bigger issue here shouldn't be some dick-head getting a bunch of gold and screwing up WoW's economy in a very minor way. The issue here should be Sony's fucking DRM!

I'm officially boycotting Sony.

[Nerv]

By that rationale, gun advertisements cause shooting deaths.
And librarys should turn over customer histories, because some of those books have dangerous knowledge in them.
Oh. Right.

¬_¬

[Reanimated]

And just think - there are still morons out there that actually want BluRay to beat out HDDVD. Why don't you dipshits just bend over for Sony and beg for more of their big DRM cock to be shoved up your ass?

[agentgray]

The messed up thing was I had to formulate a policy at work today because of this. I then had to spend the whole day explaining the technical aspects of it. I also then had to see if anyone has played any Sony CDs over the last year. Sigh. The gist:

No more Audio CDs in computers at work.

People were floored. People were pissed.

Thank you, Sony, and your messed up DRM. I then went home and elimiated, traded in, or sold everything I had with their tarnished name in my house. (Bye-bye, PSP) They have gone too far and there is no excuse for it. We're talking about changing the kernel here, people. The actual OS. There are more companies out there and different avenues of games and electronics. Strange. At one time I was a Sony zealot and fanboy. They could do no wrong.

No more. NO MORE!

I usually don't get this vehement over an issue such as this.

[Morrolan]

By that rationale, gun advertisements cause shooting deaths.
Never in my life have I ever seen a fucking gun advertisement.

[Dracula-X]

Ok. I see that it somehow lets you not be detected while cheating, but how could this help someone get a virus on my computer? I see that it will mask an exploit while playing a game...but how can it be used to add something to another computer?
Getting a virus is easy enough as it is, but the major problem with this DRM is that the pertinent files and registry keys are literally invisible. The OS is patched to ignore listing of files that begin with '$sys$'. You download a seemingly benign program and when it installs a trojan you and your virus checker would be completely unawares. The $sys$youresoscrewedhaha.exe on your C:\ drive? You won't see it. Your virus checker won't see it. Your box is owned, entirely up to the imagination of the hacker.

It's over, Prime.

Of course, now that the details are known, virus checkers will soon (if not already) be able to deal with this.

But still, inexcusable on $ony's part... Really lame.

[doubtingthomas]

Never in my life have I ever seen a fucking gun advertisement.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=4155&path=0%3A4125%3A4155

It's understandable, but they exist.

[bobbler]

To be fair, DRM is a necessary evil that we all must accept.... tee hee, kidding.

This is as lame as it gets, really. Root kits are the least of my concerns, its DRM as a whole -- the fact that Sony/BMG thought this was an acceptable move is completely unacceptable. DRM in the case of iTunes I can handle, but when I no longer feel I have control/freedom of the product I purchase then something is wrong.

[KhitomerRouge]

And just think - there are still morons out there that actually want BluRay to beat out HDDVD. Why don't you dipshits just bend over for Sony and beg for more of their big DRM cock to be shoved up your ass?Oh, please, it's six of one, a half-dozen of another. Don't believe for one second that any large tech company is turning down DRM from labels or studios, whether it's for regular CDs or next-gen optical discs. It's not the tech companies and formats that are asking for this, it's the content providers. Sony just happens to be in the unique position of being both. Although it may not apply to this situation, a lot of companies (say, the entertainment and OS divisions of Apple and Microsoft), often have a situation where the left hand really has no idea what the right is doing.

If you're pissed about it, join and/or donate to the EFF or your region's equivalent instead of complaining about it ad nauseum on internet forums. Talking to your elected representative (if you have one) helps too, especially if you get friends and family involved in passing the word.

[KhitomerRouge]

DRM in the case of iTunes I can handle, but when I no longer feel I have control/freedom of the product I purchase then something is wrong.Actually, you have no more freedom with iTunes than you do with Sony. If Apple (or more likely, the labels) wanted to revoke access to your purchased music, they can do so, with no reason or compensation. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they could disable any converted mp3s you didn't buy at ITMS at this point, as long as you synced iTunes.

[bobbler]

Actually, you have no more freedom with iTunes than you do with Sony. If Apple (or more likely, the labels) wanted to revoke access to your purchased music, they can do so, with no reason or compensation. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they could disable any converted mp3s you didn't buy at ITMS at this point, as long as you synced iTunes.


I think I put the word "feel" in there for a reason. Additionally I can burn my iTunes stuff to CDs and then rip them to MP3s (which I have done with every thing I've purchased, immediately after purchase). If the DRM of iTunes goes no further than that I have no problems with it -- I can get around it very easily (with the help of iTunes itself to burn the music to CDs).

My only real problem with iTunes is the friggin 128kbps bit rate -- for music I'm paying for I'd expect 256kbps at least (which isn't at CD quality still).

[Thenetcase]

Great idea posting this on a mainstream news site. Now we can be sure everyone who wants to cheat knows how.

On the contrary.. the fools who made this problem now HAVE to resolve it 10x faster than if it had been kept quiet.

Good thinking for once by the 'mainstream' spin doctors.

-TNC-

[zorper]

The messed up thing was I had to formulate a policy at work today because of this. I then had to spend the whole day explaining the technical aspects of it. I also then had to see if anyone has played any Sony CDs over the last year. Sigh. The gist:

No more Audio CDs in computers at work.

People were floored. People were pissed.



OH MAN! We're going to have to do this too! Why did you have to be so logical? I was in happy ignorant bliss until you explained it.

Is Windows the only OS that is compromised by this? What about MAC and XNIX?

[MadHiro]

Great idea posting this on a mainstream news site. Now we can be sure everyone who wants to cheat knows how.
Mainstream news site?

Somehow, when I think "mainstream news site" I think, say, CNN, or MSNBC, or maybe even FARK. Evil Avatar is what we call "niche", or perhaps, "nook".

[Savok]

Ok, the bigger issue here shouldn't be some dick-head getting a bunch of gold and screwing up WoW's economy in a very minor way. The issue here should be Sony's fucking DRM!

I'm officially boycotting Sony.
I'm 100% with Perigon... I must go shower now.

[MagicAlex]

How, exactly, was this meant to protect anything anyway?

[Deadend]

How, exactly, was this meant to protect anything anyway?

By fucking you in the PC. Somehow that makes it work. It's dirty and immoral and I hope this will help set the world against DRM, and not just the tech crowd.

Look at it this way... in a couple years, your PC will be secure with Windows as it will simply not allow the user to do anything unless a company gives it an ok.

[Thumper]

Ok, as far as I can tell, DRM = bad because it uses rootkits. Hackers use rootkits and hackers = bad.

Can I get some explanation of what the fuck this means? In laymans terms (pretend you're on CNN).

EDIT: oh look, the post came with some (very convenient) wikipedia links. yay!

EDIT: Ok, so basically, what? Any copyrighted material gets a prefix and gets passed over by windows (what purpose does this serve as far as copy protection goes?) So... for game hacks, all you have to do is download a hack and prefix the filename with $sys$, right?

[Deadend]

yep, or if your writing a virus just put a $sys$ on it.
It is an atempt at Copyright protection by security though obsercurity. You can't steal what you can't see, right?

and Oh well to any massive fucking security holes that are opened up along the way, as Sonys potential profits are more important than your computer.

I would like to know if Sony has this rootkit on all their PCs used in the company.

[Eric_T_Cheng]

Maybe they use Macs?

[Savok]

I can't see it taking long for someone to write a program to find these supposedly hidden files making the whole thing yet another stab in the eye to the legit, paying consumer.

[Captain Awesome]

hahahahahahahahahaha :D

[Doctor Setebos]

One thing that really scares me. Boing Boing (http://boingboing.net) is reporting on this as well (http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/03/defeat_wow_spyware_u.html), and for some god-forsaken reason, they're trying to make it sound like a good idea:Cory Doctorow: Blizzard, makers of World of Warcraft, have deployed spyware to catch "cheaters." If you want to avoid the spyware, you can install Sony's rootkit DRM (just load a store-bought CD with Sony's DRM on it) and then use its cloaking capabilities to hide your WoW app.I hope I'm reading that wrong, because I know Cory has always been a huge enemy of corporate DRM.

EDIT: nevermind, looks like Cory does hates it (http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/03/sony_releases_deroot.html):Cory Doctorow: Sony got caught installing malicious rootkits on music-buyers' computers as part of a misbegotten DRM system for CDs. These pose a terrible security risk and couldn't be uninstalled without killing Windows. Now Sony has issued a patch to kill the rootkit, in which they lie about the danger it posed.

[MrMeatshake]

buying music is far too dangerous. i'm going to download it all in future.

same goes for DVDs. those HD-DVDs sound nasty. i'm just gonna download the 100Gb HD version of harry potter ;)

[Smithersnz]

Ok, so basically, what? Any copyrighted material gets a prefix and gets passed over by windows (what purpose does this serve as far as copy protection goes?) So... for game hacks, all you have to do is download a hack and prefix the filename with $sys$, right?

Kinda. What it does is HIDE any files with $sys$ in front of them. The DRM software has this prefix, so you can't find it to get rid of it. The WOW thing is that if you rename the cheat exe or whatever to $sys$..., Blizzard's software can't see it to ban you.

I hate Sony for doing this. When will these companies learn that you can't keep hurting your customers like this? And to get rid of it, you have to ASK Sony for it, then allow them to run a program on your PC. Fuck that. Wait a week, and a removal tool will be out, which will get rid of all the DRM as well.

You lose, Sony. Everyone hates you, you have alienated your customers, and you failed to move with the times. And you wonder why people still pirate stuff.

[Vandenh]

I have been following this story for a few weeks and this is indeed a very dangerous precedent. Sony is really walking a thin line doing something like this and I cannot really believe any serious technical person could have decided on this sollution. Only managers would be so stupid to do this.

That being said... Microsoft really needs to make sure this can not be done so easily in next version of Windows. Windows API hooks etc might be really fun and useful in some situations, but MS needs to get their act together to give consumers an OS that can be "locked down" is so desired. For power PC users and/or developer like us these features can be cool but for my mom or grandma I want a PC that I install and cannot be changed by any rogue software. Technically it isn't even that hard.

>buying music is far too dangerous. i'm going to download it all in future.

:) I know this is sarcasm but you *really* are right. I have always refused to buy CDs with any copy protection (even if I knew I could copy them anyway) and given my money to not protected artists. There will never be a world where digital content is 100% safe, so companies should focus on value for money and quality (like they should!!!!). This is the way business was done long time ago... companies now seem to focus more on f*ucking their costumers and getting big salaries for top managers. In the end they will pay the price of consumer backlash if there is a god.

[Savok]

It's crazy when the pirated stuff is safer then what you buy from the store.

[Subbacultcha]

Every time a new virus comes out, like that dumb 'Britney Spears virus' a while back, the media can always find an IT expert to alledge that X billion dollars damage was done to computers around the world. That's a lot of money, even considering the pulling-numbers-out-of-thin-air factor.

Now, suppose malware writers start using Sony's DRM hole to cause mayhem...


GG Sony.

[Stanley Pain]

Apparently the 64bit versions of XP and Server 2k3 do not have this problem, as the API on those os'es doesn't allow for these types of hooks to exists.

From a technical perspective the "Sony DRM" program is quite impressive on how it "cloaks" files using the $sys$ variable in reg keys and file names.

There's an interesting writeup on sysinternals about it.

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html

Also has a couple of links to programs that can help you scan for rootkits, etc.

[Grimgrock]

How can Sony even remotely think that it is okay to rootkit a computer? That's just a security nightmare waiting to happen. And before the MS bashers show up, rootkits aren't only Windows problems.

They most certainly aren't but in non-Windows systems it is much harder to do and there are ways to detect it.

That said, I am curious as to whether or not SONY BMG DRM disks with this issue affect non-Windows systems as well.

[saran_js]

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.... how is this issue all of Sony's fault. The basic capability was already in MS Windows, so you guys should also be blaming Microsoft for this. You are just anti-Sony and will find any means and method to say "f*** Sony".

For that matter there are also the users who run everything in administrator mode. Of course their PCs running MS Windows is going to get screwed.

Good thing I run linux.

That being said, I too am against any sort of DRM. Whether it be Sony, Apple or even your precious Microsoft, and I do not like companies installing any sort of spyware on my computer, in which case it also includes companies such as Blizzard.

[Stanley Pain]

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.... how is this issue all of Sony's fault. The basic capability was already in MS Windows, so you guys should also be blaming Microsoft for this. You are just anti-Sony and will find any means and method to say "f*** Sony".

For that matter there are also the users who run everything in administrator mode. Of course their PCs running MS Windows is going to get screwed.

Good thing I run linux.

That being said, I too am against any sort of DRM. Whether it be Sony, Apple or even your precious Microsoft, and I do not like companies installing any sort of spyware on my computer, in which case it also includes companies such as Blizzard.

Just because a process is "in place" within an OS, doesn't mean that someone (re: Sony) should or has the right to make a program that circumvents the OSes API to hide a system hook dll, and program.

It was Sony's choice on how to go about making their DRM software (or whoever they licensed it from). They chose to go with one that's particularily(sp?) nasty, and can break systems if you try to remove it.

I don't like it when companies start to take liberties with what THEY choose to install on my PC, without letting me know.

[Savok]

Indeed, of course it isn't Sony's fault for creating something which cracks your computer open like a walnut.

Did MS fuck up? Yes, and if some hacker had done this I'd be having a go at MS. But this is Sony, not some jackass Linux obsessive with an axe to grind, this pretty much amounts to industrial sabotage by Sony.

[saran_js]

Well, Microsoft ain't no angel either. Look back at all the stupid things that they have done in the name of monopolising the PC industry.

You have to remember that Sony has interests in hardware appliances and content. Microsoft wants to be in everything and take every piece of pie for itself. If the item has a computer chip in it, Microsoft wants their OS controlling it.

[phantomhitman]

so does drm install when the cd is entered (via autorun) or is it backpacked onto the media player? I never listen to cds in my pc, so I do not know.

[Heretic Machine]

Well, Microsoft ain't no angel either. Look back at all the stupid things that they have done in the name of monopolising the PC industry.

You have to remember that Sony has interests in hardware appliances and content. Microsoft wants to be in everything and take every piece of pie for itself. If the item has a computer chip in it, Microsoft wants their OS controlling it.

God dammit, take off your fanboy goggles.

[saran_js]

It's not that I am Sony fanboy, it's the fact that I do not like Microsoft. It's also that most of you guys are Microsoft lackies, praising them like they can do no wrong.

I do not like what Microsoft is doing in the industry, strongarming and bullying everybody else. So, that is one reason why I will almost never ever back them up.

[Vandenh]

>I do not like what Microsoft is doing in the industry, strongarming and bullying everybody else.

Wait.. I thought this thread was about Sony DRM software? Ha yes.. DAMN MS for making an OS that can be abused. Let's all use Linux... Sony wouldn't dare to f*ck with Linux!!! Or would they?

Dude this has nothing to do with MS... it is all about how low companies are willing to go to protect "their" interests.

[Savok]

I don't see how MS dick waving has anything to do with Sony being assholes?

[Ajezz]

Well, Microsoft ain't no angel either. Look back at all the stupid things that they have done in the name of monopolising the PC industry.


This kind of fanboyism is just sad... If an exploit of Sony's DRM system ended up leading to the identiy-theft of one of your family members (one who's not particularly tech-savvy, and as such not a l33t linux haxor), would you still feel the need to shift the blame just because you're a fan of Sony's game consoles?

[Savok]

It's not his love for Sony, it's his pathological hate for MS. Given enough time I'm sure all the world's problems would stem from MS according to him.

[Busted_Astromech]

Yeah, you're missing the point, saran_js. Regardless of how crappy Windows security is, Sony is the one breaking it. It may not have been wise for the rich dude in the mansion to have no security measures, but it's still not his fault that burglars broke in.

And agentgray, I salute you.

They had a story on National Public Radio's Morning Edition today about this rootkit. The Sony executive, who they asked for comment, said something on the lines of (and I kid you not),
"The privacy advocates are blowing this out of proportion. Most people don't even know what a rootkit is."
Most people don't know what it is? Are you f***ing kidding me? That is supposed to absolve you from responsibility? That's part of the reason why it's so wrong, you're screwing with the user's computer without telling them!

The reporter noted at the end of the story that none of the digital privacy experts she talked to made any attempt to defend Sony.

F***ers.

[Ernst_Jager]

Ignorance is bliss.

[bapenguin]

It's not that I am Sony fanboy, it's the fact that I do not like Microsoft. It's also that most of you guys are Microsoft lackies, praising them like they can do no wrong.

I do not like what Microsoft is doing in the industry, strongarming and bullying everybody else. So, that is one reason why I will almost never ever back them up.


You are countering your argument to Perigon....he is probably one of the most honest speak your mind people on this site. DID YOU SEE how many Anti-ms posts he had up because of the dual SKU issue?

If you think Sony isn't employing the same corporate tactics that MS is...you need to open those shades and get outside man.

[Savok]

To go outside he'd have to stop work on his book, "Gates of Borg".

All this sniping and I fucking hate MS myself, this, finding myself on Perigon's side more then once now, what's the fucking world coming to.

[agentgray]

It's not that I am Sony fanboy, it's the fact that I do not like Microsoft. It's also that most of you guys are Microsoft lackies, praising them like they can do no wrong.

I do not like what Microsoft is doing in the industry, strongarming and bullying everybody else. So, that is one reason why I will almost never ever back them up.
And Sony isn't?

1. PSP bios update after bios update (why? I wonder...)
2. UMD (Universal...heh)
3. Memory Stick
4. Memory Stick Duo (item #3 wasn't good enough?)
5. DRM intrusion

There are probably many more. People, feel free to add to the list.

BTW, I service 80 employees and had 50 emails this morning after we made our policy announcement. In just a quick scan of our CPU logs and then checking the systems, I have four that have it (they're probably more)....at least that I know of. I have a test machine that I used a CD on to "infect" We then used Sony's "fix." Result: machine CD-ROM is still borked about 4/5 of the time.

I get to have my team do reformats today. Yay!

[Savok]

The fact they make PS2s to break so people buy replacements thus jacking up console sales.

Also that's some god damn bullshit right there Gray, I'm sure a lot of folk would be willing to join you in a class action suit for loss of income here. You should never have had to spend all this time cleaning up comprimised systems because Sony love shitting on the consumer.

[reimomo]

Apparently the 64bit versions of XP and Server 2k3 do not have this problem, as the API on those os'es doesn't allow for these types of hooks to exists.

From a technical perspective the "Sony DRM" program is quite impressive on how it "cloaks" files using the $sys$ variable in reg keys and file names.

There's an interesting writeup on sysinternals about it.

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html


I hope you're being sarcastic.... that article says (like other security experts I read say) that the rootkit is "sloppy" code, takes up more resources than necessary, is impossible for the average user to remove, and doesn't present any serious difficulty for an expert.

In other words, it fucks up the average person who gave Sony money, and doesn't prevent Joe Cracker from uploaded torrents for music CDs.

[Bubby]

The real issue here is that after the Sony "rootkit" more or less makes your computer NOT RTM, SP1, or SP2. For businesses this is a major hassle and I feel bad for the guy earlier in the thread who has to admin X amount of machines that aren't really running a supported kernel from Microsoft anymore. This is not malicious behaviour from the employees using the computer, what they did was simply play a cd.

There are far reaching implications here and Sony is 100% at fault and liable.

[HeisinDC]

There are far reaching implications here and Sony is 100% at fault and liable.

Exactly, so where do we start with the lawsuits? I'm not looking to gain anything from this, but just protect those who don't know as much as we do. PS thanks EA for this news.

PS I work for a senator and I've already brought this up with our Leg. Aide on technology.

[Alexious]

It's crazy when the pirated stuff is safer then what you buy from the store.
At long last... a new sig! Huzzah! :cool:

[AspectVoid]

As much as I would like to argue that Microsoft is as much to blame for this as Sony is, I can't. That arguement would be the same as argueing that Smith & Weston is responsible when some idiot uses one of their guns to murder another person. It just doesn't cut it.

I will say, though, that in my experiance, all of the Sony bashing is complete bullshit, as I've never had any Sony product in the past 20 years fail on me. I have, however, had Microsoft products (Windows ME, an Xbox), Toshiba products (A VCR), Atari products (joysticks for my 800), GE products (a washing machine), etc all break on me.

Feel free to bash Sony for this DRM crap, though.

[MasterKwan]

At one point Sony was special and their products were made better than other comparible products. They were like the Honda of consumer products. Not anymore. Typical Sony products these days are made on the same chinese assembly lines as the rest of the store branded crap you see at BB or Walmart. I specifically won't buy Sony anymore. Not because of this new DRM stuff but, because their products are simply unreliable.

I have two DVD players on my home theater. One plays DivX and was $70 the other's integrated into the home theater system and was pricey. Guess which one stopped playing DVD's two months after I got it? Well, it wasn't the cheap one.

You can still buy quality Sony products but, basically you have to get the high end stuff.

Basically the techniques built into the rootkit aren't new. Hell, years ago when I was doing kernel drivers for Windows for a virus scanner, you could easily do this same thing by inserting a driver into the chain of device drivers for the disks so, every open/close/scan could be watched by the driver (watched, intercepted and then permitted to happen or not). Even file sharing IO went through the driver. Just because it's publicised now doesn't mean people aren't already using it with their own kernel drivers. Shit, it makes me want do another one so, I can password protect sections of my disk so no other application can scan into my private folders.

[agentgray]

Basically the techniques built into the rootkit aren't new. Hell, years ago when I was doing kernel drivers for Windows for a virus scanner, you could easily do this same thing by inserting a driver into the chain of device drivers for the disks so, every open/close/scan could be watched by the driver (watched, intercepted and then permitted to happen or not). Even file sharing IO went through the driver. Just because it's publicised now doesn't mean people aren't already using it with their own kernel drivers. Shit, it makes me want do another one so, I can password protect sections of my disk so no other application can scan into my private folders.Yes, it's not new, but now it's mainstream so script kiddies will be all over it.

[saran_js]

You guys are misinterpreting what I am saying here. I'm not saying that Sony is right and I'm not even defending them for trying to install a rootkit on to other people's PCs. What I am saying is that Microsoft is no better. That's what I am trying to get across, which seems to me must have flown over most of your heads.

[Thenetcase]

Well, Microsoft ain't no angel either. Look back at all the stupid things that they have done in the name of monopolising the PC industry.

You have to remember that Sony has interests in hardware appliances and content. Microsoft wants to be in everything and take every piece of pie for itself. If the item has a computer chip in it, Microsoft wants their OS controlling it.

You win the "Stupid Fuck of the Week Award".

-TNC-

[agentgray]

You guys are misinterpreting what I am saying here. I'm not saying that Sony is right and I'm not even defending them for trying to install a rootkit on to other people's PCs. What I am saying is that Microsoft is no better. That's what I am trying to get across, which seems to me must have flown over most of your heads.
Agreed about the Microsoft part, but with any major company that's like saying rain is wet. :D

[saran_js]

You win the "Stupid Fuck of the Week Award".

-TNC-

And you sir are incapable of having a civil conversation without insulting other people. Let's keep this civil.

[saran_js]

You are countering your argument to Perigon....he is probably one of the most honest speak your mind people on this site. DID YOU SEE how many Anti-ms posts he had up because of the dual SKU issue?

If you think Sony isn't employing the same corporate tactics that MS is...you need to open those shades and get outside man.

Again, please read my previous posts. I did not say Sony was right. I am not defending them. I am merely pointing out the fact that Microsoft does the same nonsense too.

[MasterKwan]

Script kiddies already know about this. Who do you think invented this technique, it wasn't Sony.

[Murmillo]

Script kiddies already know about this. Who do you think invented this technique, it wasn't Sony.
You're seriously stupid if you think Script kiddies "inventied" this. Script kiddies get thier nick name because they take somebody elses script and change or one or two lines to make it "thiers". They have no talent, no skill. The only thing they know how to do is copy-cat what other people have succesfully done.

[MasterKwan]

Well duh, I was exaggerating for affect. The people that feed the script kiddies though already use this. Why do you think "SysInternals" already had tools in place to detect this? What you didn't read the original article? Now who's stupid?

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html

RootKit toolkits are readily available so, any idiot can create one.

[Savok]

Again, please read my previous posts. I did not say Sony was right. I am not defending them. I am merely pointing out the fact that Microsoft does the same nonsense too.
Is this a story about MS fucking us? No, when it is, you'll have a point.

In the meantime, MS has little to do with this other then being god damn idiots as usual. To use a previous analogy, Sony is the one pointing the gun at us and firing, not MS.

[Montgomery_Python]

1. A hammer.
2. A 30 foot fall
3. A running drop kick
4. The death star
5. A cup of gasoline (See #6)
6. A match
7. Being hit by a car
8. A Korn mosh pit

The list goes on and on..

You forgot Quicktime and Kazaa...

[Montgomery_Python]

Ignorance is bliss.

The inverse is true as well.

If you're happy, it's because you don't know who's fucking you.