Star Wars Galaxies: Galactic Revamp in Development

[bean19]

Gamespot (www.gamespot) brings us details (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarsgalaxiesaned/news.html?sid=6137122&page=0) on the upcoming major revamp of the infamous Star Wars Galaxies (many people hate it only slightly less than Jar-Jar).

The article includes hard details on how they plan to revamp the game to follow a class system and have a much more structured quest system than the mere random mission generators, as well as more interaction with the genre's leading characters. There has also been talk about the combat being given more emphasis and becoming much faster paced, but the details of this were all vague hyperbole.

In addition, the earlier levels of the game are being completely overhauled--you'll be able to play a brand-new character through levels 1 to 10 in a self-contained tutorial area that will also let you sample everything that each of the nine new professions has to offer. Once you're done with the tutorial, levels 10 to 30 will offer a highly directed experience with numerous quests that will not only be more specifically appropriate to the profession you've chosen, but also span several of your character's experience levels and hopefully bring you closer to the story. These quests will offer much more feedback for players and not only give them more context about why they're doing what they're doing (for instance, meeting famed bounty hunter Boba Fett to receive an assassination mission on a wealthy merchant, rather than simply being assigned to exterminate a nest of alien critters). Characters that give out quests will also often spell out their rewards in advance, similar to the quests in World of Warcraft.
These changes look good to me. Oh yeah, did I mention you can choose to play as a force sensitive from character creation instead of having to endure a sadistic maze of unclearly defined goals to get to play a Jedi? They are doing the only thing that could get me to look at the game again with this bit.

[Evil Avatar]

Good deal. Now everyone can be a Jedi, not just the people who actually play the game.

[bean19]

Good deal. Now everyone can be a Jedi, not just the people who actually play the game.

Hell yeah. :)

I know it makes no sense in the setting of the SWG Universe, but it will get me to play again. I really have no interest in playing a Han Solo or a Boba Fett. I want to be Luke, Obi-Wan, or Anakin in my childish fantasies. . . or at least an approximate.

While I did play a gunsmith (master even) at release because the crafting game was fairly rich, that was mostly because the rest of the game was so utterly lacking in content and depth.

How they are going to allow so many force sensitives to play and mesh with the time period, I have no idea. Perhaps the thinking at Lucas Arts is that now that Episode III has revealed the story, there can be more Jedi who are trained through other methods besides the Jedi Order during this period instead of only having 3 in existence.

Anakin killed all the existing Jedi. He didn't wipe out all the potential force sensitives in the Universe.

[Heretic Machine]

Blargh.... I was with them right up until they mentioned "Class system." That's just completly fucked <.< One of the main things I liked about SWG was it's character advancment system.

[Bushido]

This confuses and scares me.

[triptogn]

Doing Star Warsy things in a Star Wars games sounds like a good deal to me.

Fly ships in space? Check
Shoot Guns? Check
Chewbacca? Check
Millenium Falcon? Check
Become a Jedi? Check

Changing the combat system sounds like a big risk, but I suppose what's to lose at this point? Having the Star Wars franchise is huge, not capitalizing on it's strengths is what got SWG into the mess it's in. This is probably the right direction to take, despite how risky it is, and how much it affects the subscribers they already have.

I know if I had a Creature Tamer for the past 2 years I would be pretty pissed.

[JudasGoat]

Good deal. Now everyone can be a Jedi, not just the people who actually play the game.

That's exactly what killed it for me. If they're not going to follow the canon, they can leave it up their ass where I decided they could put it a year and a half ago. For chrissake, that's what Jedi Knight and now Battlefront are for. Shit, at least change the timeline if you're that hell bent on seeing 1000 jedi's jumping around.

[The Iron Weasel]

Letting just anyone be a jedi seems....wrong, you should have to work for it....DAMMIT!

[Abash Alarmist]

What I don't get is why they are putting all their effort and energy into this game. Logically, it would be better sense to start up on SWG2 (probably in the clone wars) and merge all this into it. That way, there can be more Jedi and not have it feel wierd, have a fast paced combat system, and still have that good ol' star warsy feel.

[bean19]

Letting just anyone be a jedi seems....wrong, you should have to work for it....DAMMIT!

I get the complaints about the canon, but this one really bugs me. It is totally a multiplayer thing. I don't like exclusive content that requires me to jump through hoops that have never in my experience been fun.

Sure, it is really good for that 1% of the population that can wag their virtual dicks in the air because they have enough time to play a game to the point where they can unlock the exclusive content, but it leaves the rest of us not playing their product because we can't access the feature that would make the product compelling and interesting to us.

[thecrazyd]

Letting just anyone be a jedi seems....wrong, you should have to work for it....DAMMIT!
They don't let just anyone be a jedi, they let just anyone be force sensitive. You still have to work to get your saber and whatnot.

[Maskatron]

Changing to timeline to post-ROTJ would solve a lot of the canon problems. They'd have to get rid of Vader though.

[JudasGoat]

Sure, it is really good for that 1% of the population that can wag their virtual dicks in the air because they have enough time to play a game to the point where they can unlock the exclusive content, but it leaves the rest of us not playing their product because we can't access the feature that would make the product compelling and interesting to us.

I agree. Which is why they should axe the entire Jedi idea completely. Screw it, if someone wants to be a jedi, there's plenty of other ways they can pretend to be a space ninja.

[thecrazyd]

I agree. Which is why they should axe the entire Jedi idea completely. Screw it, if someone wants to be a jedi, there's plenty of other ways they can pretend to be a space ninja.
So they should get rid of a feature that people want to use instead of making it more accessable?

[atomic_burrito]

Wait, so they're making it WoW with a Star Wars theme? Sounds good to me...

And it goes to show you just how "right" WoW got the formula for MMOs.

[Grimgrock]

The article says that only one profession will be able to craft items such as clothing and weapons. This seems like a rather big mistake to me, especially in a player-run economy.

I bought Rage of the Wookies. I gave the game a third chance. It was three strikes. Unless I hear tremendously positive things about this, there is no way I'll leave WoW for SWG.

As for there being a huge number of jedi, the universe is huge (what is it now, 10 planets?). Is it unrealistic to expect that in the 18 (??) years between the jedi purge and the years of the rebellion that, as they tightened their grip, some jedi slipped through the fingers of Vader and his Emperor?

[JudasGoat]

So they should get rid of a feature that people want to use instead of making it more accessable?

Exactly. ;)
Believe me, when I played there were a lot of people who wanted to see the entire idea thrown out the window in favor of a more faithful Star Wars world to play in. NOT everyone wants to be a Jedi. Or play alongside 2,500 others who do.

[Derella]

All they need now is some good art direction, and they'd be set. Cartoon Network's 'Clone Wars' style would be fun.

[thecrazyd]

Exactly. ;)
Believe me, when I played there were a lot of people who wanted to see the entire idea thrown out the window in favor of a more faithful Star Wars world to play in. NOT everyone wants to be a Jedi. Or play alongside 2,500 others who do.
So.... they should cater to the 20 people who do not what jedis instead of the million that do?

In other words: Fuck cannon.

[51|RandoM]

Eh, if anybody can be force sensitive and/or jedi, there isn't any point in being either.

It is supposed to be a few jedi vs. hordes of enemy, not hordes of jedi vs. a few dumb henchmen.

[Mason]

Changing to timeline to post-ROTJ would solve a lot of the canon problems. They'd have to get rid of Vader though.

Actually, that'd probably be the best design decision to start things out.

To maintain a pre-ROTJ time-span you have to ignore tons of canon. First of all, the fundamental asymmetry between the two sides. The Empire was everywhere, the Alliance had a few rare hidden bases but was otherwise entirely diffuse. And while the Alliance would be happy to hire an occasional mostly-independent agent (SWG character), the Empire is a top-down military with little use for independent agents. It'd be like a US sergeant telling you that you could become a US private if you could kill five Iraqis, but that the rank holds no real obligation of service.

Post-ROTJ makes the sides a lot more equivalent. Neither faction is really dominant, the remnants of the empire are heavy in some regions, the new republic is strong in others. And since neither side is really entrenched they'd both be looking to attract independent agents to bolster their rag-tag forces.

Fixing the Jedi/Sith limitations is another nice side-effect. Plus, it gets rid of the whole covert Jedi thing (since anyone levitating stuff in public would get reported to the still-dominant Empire).

And both sides have a better narrative after ROTJ for a MMO. Everyone knows what the decisive battles are in the GCW from the movies, so there's really no way of selling a character's role in SWG as playing a decisive role in that conflict. MMO narratives, such as they are, don't work well during an era of heroes, since by definition the player's actions are rendered meaningless by the narrative's focus on someone else. This is why WoW doesn't take place during the Burning Legion's assault, or The Matrix Online (heh) isn't set during the Matrix movies. Because no one would give a shit about the player's role in the conflict, since everyone knows that the conflict relies solely on Neo/Arthas/Luke, and everyone else is just an extra. You have to set a MMO game after the heroes have retired in order to make all the thousands of players feel relevant. It's a subtle point, but important.

[JudasGoat]

In other words: Fuck cannon.

If "Fuck canon," then why pay the licensing fee? Why not just release a sci-fi MMO with laser swords and telekenesis?

[bean19]

Mason - Really good post.

You know, they could actually do this if they change the game enough. I think one of the problems they would face with this would be making Coruscant though (as Leia would be tied up here, also Han would be a General now and less of a rogue.). Certainly the technology is here that they could make Coruscant NOW, but I don't know if they can do it with this old graphics engine.

Maybe they could have it IMMEDIATELY after ROTJ, the New Republic hasn't formed in Coruscant completely. Mon Mothma is there but Leia and Han are still among the Rebel forces as the remains of the Empire are still strong.

[Librum]

Because no one would give a shit about the player's role in the conflict, since everyone knows that the conflict relies solely on Neo/Arthas/Luke, and everyone else is just an extra. You have to set a MMO game after the heroes have retired in order to make all the thousands of players feel relevant. It's a subtle point, but important.

Right on. Pretty much hits the nail on the head, and explains why a large part of SWG felt so meaningless after awhile, even with all the other flaws that got in the way. The story was already written, and your PC wasn't even a guy who died at Hoth or got blown up on the Death Star.

I, like a previous poster, had the same 'three strikes' experience, and likewise, unless I just hear how this is the second coming of WoW, with lightsabers and no gnomes, I'll have to take a pass.

[Alexious]

Logically, it would be better sense to start up on SWG2...
Agreed. Hey, it worked for Battlefront! The original was sort of fun but had a lot of problems... but #2 is shaping up to be excellent. Maybe SWG2 would live up to the potential of the license. :D

[Mason]

Eh, graphical fidelity is a lousy sticking point. If Coruscant has good gameplay potential, then it should be included, even if the engine can only approximate it so well.

And I could see good potential. I don't know the EU history here, but you'd expect that the planet's heavy Imperial presence didn't just evaporate. Have them hide and regroup in the lower levels, and have a remnant/republic conflict centered around the attempts to unearth them (as they attempt to undermine the formation of the republic). This'd let you use the planet without having to address the technical and gameplay challenges of having fighting throughout this giant elevated city.

But yeah, the pivotal period immediately after the fall of the empire could have made a truly great MMO, particularly if it had a DAoC-style territory control aspect to the faction conflict. Instead, we got macro crafting and fedex quests. Who the hell was this apparently-persuasive anti-combat lobby?

[kickmybum]

If they would take the time to overhaul PVP so the Empire/Republic war would actually be meaningful, then I guarantee many players would flock to it, regardless of how shitty the PVE product is.

[Mason]

The marketing writes itself, too. Play it from the perspective that the fall of the second death star and the emperor woke up many people to the realities of the conflict, prompting them to either dedicate themselves to the building of a new republic or to fight to restore the empire to its former glory.

Have a wordless scene of one brother coming home in a crisp new Imperial uniform to find the other brother finishing a holo-chat (or whatever they use for communication) with a Republic recruiter. They stare at each other for a moment, confused and surprised...as the title rolls.

[Chris_D]

So.... they should cater to the 20 people who do not what jedis instead of the million that do?


You're not thinking it through. It's not that everyone wants to be a jedi. Hell I can play KOTOR if all I want to do is run around swinging light sabers and using force choke. Worst case scenario, if there are 1000 jedis running around I want to be able to be one to without having to quit my job (pvp vs jedi was very unbalanced when I last played). Best case scenario, remove jedi completely as it makes no sense in the setting. The other classes provide plenty of depth and entertainment.

It's the casual players that will make a mmorpg successful. Not the ones that play 10-20 hours per day.

[thecrazyd]

You're not thinking it through. It's not that everyone wants to be a jedi. Hell I can play KOTOR if all I want to do is run around swinging light sabers and using force choke. Worst case scenario, if there are 1000 jedis running around I want to be able to be one to without having to quit my job (pvp vs jedi was very unbalanced when I last played). Best case scenario, remove jedi completely as it makes no sense in the setting. The other classes provide plenty of depth and entertainment.

It's the casual players that will make a mmorpg successful. Not the ones that play 10-20 hours per day.
Not everyone wants to be a jedi, but I would assume that most Star War fans would. Personally, I am more of a smuggler type of guy, but I am realistic enough to believe that, given the choice, more then 50% of the players would want to be a jedi.

Who cares if it is not cannon? When people think Star Wars, they think lightsabers, especially after the last movies. Giving them the option would make it feel much more like Star Wars, and less like Generic Sci Fi MMO.

[zorper]

Have a wordless scene of one brother coming home in a crisp new Imperial uniform to find the other brother finishing a holo-chat (or whatever they use for communication) with a Republic recruiter. They stare at each other for a moment, confused and surprised...as the title rolls.

Hey Mason,
Your stuff is too good to just give away here. Put it in a book and make yourself some money. :)

[Bushido]

Make the jedi a class instead the retarded terra kasi or whatever. Give other players the means to kill space ninjas problem solved.

[thecrazyd]

Make the jedi a class instead the retarded terra kasi or whatever. Give other players the means to kill space ninjas problem solved.
Force Sensitive is an option, but not Jedi. That would be like having Master Bounty hunter as a starting class.

[Savok]

Can we have Mason rewrite SWG and make playable for people who still give a shit about Star Wars canon? Thank you.

[Benny]

Good deal. Now everyone can be a Jedi, not just the people who actually play the game.

Evil. Not the way it works, my friend. Force Sensitive only means that you "have the spark" to be a Jedi. You WON'T be able to start swinging a saber right off the bat. You'll still need to do the quests and gain exp to convert into Force Exp that you use to buy blocks. 24 blocks and you get to start the Jedi Trials and finally get your Saber. It's gonna take you months to get to this point. Three more blocks for me and I finally get my Saber and I've been at it for over a year.

Benwa

[Benny]

Force Sensitive does NOT = Jedi! Don't worry!

Benwa

[JudasGoat]

It only means you're Yuri Geller with a laser gun. If you try real hard you can do backflips and swing a laser sword.

[S1n1star]

Eh, graphical fidelity is a lousy sticking point. If Coruscant has good gameplay potential, then it should be included, even if the engine can only approximate it so well.

And I could see good potential. I don't know the EU history here, but you'd expect that the planet's heavy Imperial presence didn't just evaporate. Have them hide and regroup in the lower levels, and have a remnant/republic conflict centered around the attempts to unearth them (as they attempt to undermine the formation of the republic). This'd let you use the planet without having to address the technical and gameplay challenges of having fighting throughout this giant elevated city.

But yeah, the pivotal period immediately after the fall of the empire could have made a truly great MMO, particularly if it had a DAoC-style territory control aspect to the faction conflict. Instead, we got macro crafting and fedex quests. Who the hell was this apparently-persuasive anti-combat lobby?
Two words...Raph Koster.

[Mason]

Two words...Raph Koster.

I guess that's a point. Do you know of any places where he attempts to justify his design decisions on swg?

[williambraski]

I guess that's a point. Do you know of any places where he attempts to justify his design decisions on swg?

He wrote a whole f_ck_ng book

http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/04/202228&tid=6

[endrom]

Blargh.... I was with them right up until they mentioned "Class system." That's just completly fucked <.< One of the main things I liked about SWG was it's character advancment system.
Yeah same here, especially since the CU made over 8/10th of the classes in the game totally useless. Dancers and crafters took the most of the hurt. this is going to be another dissapointment, the space combat is fun and all, I had a ithorian master pilot and commando, but seeing cantinas going form computer crashing hot spots of people, to afk xombie zones. it pissed me off, it been so far a fact that SOE can't make a good SW rpg experience.