Overcoming Apathy - Lara's Journey Back to Critical Appreciation

[fitbabits]

Next Generation (http://www.next-gen.biz) has posted a short article (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1492&Itemid=2) from Edge Magazine featuring quotes from senior members of the team creating Tomb Raider Legends.

Toby Gard
Senior designer

On working with Crystal Dynamics

"I'm used to having to call all the shots and that's just not the case here at Crystal Dynamics. It's been a somewhat chilled experience because I've been able to apply myself to smaller, more detailed parts of the game across various different points. It's remaining interested without that need to pull the whole thing along."
Riley Cooper
Lead designer

On Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness

"I feel bad about how we slagged on [Tomb Raider 6]. But we have to be careful about that. If we compare ourselves to Angel of Darkness, we know it could lull us into a false sense of security where we beat the game by getting, say, a 5.6 in reviews. If that was the case, we wouldn't have accomplished anything."
It remains to be seen whether the interest is still there for Lara's adventures.

[EternalGamer]

I think the Tomb Raider games are just immensily appealing in concept. The idea of exploring caves and ancient civilizations appeals to the kid in all of us that wanted to be Indiana Jones. It got a bit tiresome, especially when they started that urban setting and stealth nonsense, but the conceptual appeal always remained there. A realistic platformer in a cool ancient setting. Nothing else really like that even today. I think Crystal Dynamics know how to pick up the pace and readjust the focus, and having Toby Gard onboard is an added bonus. I have only played a little bit of Galleon (it's in my stack of "must plays"), but I really dug what I played.

Dan

[johnperkins21]

The interest is still there -- at least it is for me. I thoroughly enjoyed the first game, and had a good time with the second. If they could go back to what made those games fun, I'd be very excited.

[Ajezz]

I don't anyone ever really gave a crap about Lara - the initial popularity stemmed from the fact she popularized at the time what was a new genre... It's not as if she had a whole lot of charisma even on day one.

[Heretic Machine]

I would love to get back into the Tomb Raider franchise, if they make the game worth playing. That's really all that concerns me, I don't have anything inherently against the franchise, it's just a long string of bad sequels forced me to stop buying.

Here's to hoping they can ressurect Laura Croft.

[fitbabits]

It's not as if she had a whole lot of charisma even on day one.
You're missing the point - back then she had (and still has) boobies! Big ones. :rolleyes:

[The Iron Weasel]

Yeah, I'll pick up this new one if its any good, Project: Snowblind is fun, so i figure they can do this.

[The Iron Weasel]

You're missing the point - back then she had (and still has) boobies! Big ones. :rolleyes:

THE SIZE OF YOUR HEAD!!!!! :D

[Ajezz]

You're missing the point - back then she had (and still has) boobies! Big ones. :rolleyes:

I know that's what the marketing types and the "Families Against Gaming Systems" latched onto, but that isn't why I enjoyed the original TR - it was just a perk...

[spacerat100]

yea i think this game lost a lot of selling power when other games started putting in characters with absurdly large tits. Really I never thought any of the tomb raider games were that great but I admit the first one was nice because at the time it was somthing new. Nocturine was a game that played very very similar to tomb raider and was much better than any of them IMO.

[Dabombpizza]

I never really enjoyed the Tomb Raider games. I found the controls to be anti-intuitive and the game to be a little boring over all, but that really is just me. I don't know why they want to ressurect the franchise, I think it might just be time to move on to something new.

[DaedalusFolly]

I know that's what the marketing types and the "Families Against Gaming Systems" latched onto, but that isn't why I enjoyed the original TR - it was just a perk...

They were quite "perky", that's for sure.

[PIPBoy3000]

I think they've got to take some serious risks with their IP if they have any hope of revitalizing the game. I'm sure that gives publishers a heart-attack, as they've gotten so risk averse that it's likely we'll get yet another platform jumping game with slightly better graphics.

Perhaps it would work well as a survival/horror sort of game? They tend to do well with strong female protaganists. I never was fond of the jumping puzzles, though I loved the concept of exploring ancient mysteries.

[EternalGamer]

I dug the jumping puzzles. Alot. It was an interesting different type of platforming game with a unique type of pacing. Much slower than the average game, perhaps a little too slow, but it was part of the more minimalist atomosphere of the first few TR games (along with the sparse music and sound effects) that made the games great.

Dan

[Kelegacy]

If this game goes back to, oh I don't know, actual TOMB RAIDING, I will be interested once more. Cityscapes do not appeal to me, as they can be found in any action game. Give me more of what made the original game so great.

That said, I trust Crystal Dynamics to bring a much better game than Core did in titles 3-6. Not that it would be terribly hard, though.

[Demo_Boy]

To me, Tomb Raider is all about big jiggly boobs.

I look forward to the next installment with bated breath.

[fitbabits]

To me, Tomb Raider is all about big jiggly boobs.

I look forward to the next installment with bated breath.
Bump-mapped jiggly boobs! What more could a pre-pubescent gamer ask for?

[EternalGamer]

If this game goes back to, oh I don't know, actual TOMB RAIDING, I will be interested once more. Cityscapes do not appeal to me, as they can be found in any action game. Give me more of what made the original game so great.

That said, I trust Crystal Dynamics to bring a much better game than Core did in titles 3-6. Not that it would be terribly hard, though.


Not only were the city sections kind of lame, they didn't make any sense in terms of gameplay. You do not need to "rock climb" in London. They are called doors and hallways. Use them.

Dan

[SnappyCrunch]

I remember an interview in PCGamer after TR1 came out (This was in 95 or 96, I think), and the lead dev said something to the effect of:

"We're definitely going to make TR2, and there might be a TR3, but we'll most likely end it after that. We don't want to franchise to go on to, say, TR6. We're just not interested in dragging it out like that."

Heh heh. Shows what happens when the publisher calls the shots, and not the dev team.

[PIPBoy3000]

It's a pretty typical story in game development these days. The developers want to explore new stories and gameplay. Publishers are risk averse and want "guaranteed" income. What happens is that IPs get ground into a mushy paste, bland and unappealing.

Then the Grand Theft Autos come along, create new genres, and publishers rush to copy that success.

[see colon]

the original tomb raider was fantastic. i've purchased it 3 times and enjoed each purchase. after the first installment, however, i think they lost focus. it's a shame the pc version no longer runs on modern hardware.

for the record, lara no longer had big boobs. she's regular sized now.

[Metal Jesus]

I'm still curious about the Tomb Raider games, just because the 1st game was so fantastic at the time. It really showed off my new 3DFX video card!! :P

That said, I probably will pick up Legends on the PSP...just because there is nothing like it there yet.

[Deadend]

Well, if the dev team has made Lara control better, instead of a titty-tank that leaps like a grasshopper.

I was hoping for a Prince of Persia with the wall running replaced with something else.
I say PoP as that game took away the tedium of trying to jump exactly on the edge of a platform and made it so that if a jump was doable, it was done. It was tile based, but it just made it more thinking based and not pure reflex and skills, as it was about chosing what moves to do.

Tomb Raider needs that, and possibly some belly-slide moves to get around, cartwheels and fun with traps. The guns are not really needed as the Tomb should be the enemy, not whatever-the-hell you fight in Tomb Raider games.

[EternalGamer]

No Prince of Persia version of a Tomb Raider game for me, thanks. That would completely eliminate the unique pacing and feel of the Tomb Raider games. I enjoyed playing through both PoP games, but honestly, the feel of them doesn't appeal to me as much as the original TR games did. They are too fast and combat driven. Even the platforming is seat-of-your pants. Almost no exploration element which to me is key to the TR franchise. I want a slower pace, a thinking platformer. Keep the sound and fury, metal and rage in the Prince's game.

Dan

[King Drewsky]

Unless there is hardcore sex in it, I am not interested. This horse was beat to death a long time ago.

[Dracula-X]

I'd welcome a new TR game, if done right... After 3 I gave up. Echoing some other statements here, if they went back to the roots of what made the original fun & interesting, it could do well. Bouncing boobs and all. :)

[Kefkataran]

As far as the interest being there, I think the case always has been and always will be that if they make a good game, the interest will be there.

[Phades]

I can't wait for this game and really have high hopes for it. As long as the reviews are decent, I'll be picking it up as soon as I can.

[Deadend]

What I ment about PoP was that the jumping bits were not based around milimeter precision jumping. The last 6 Tomb Raider games were.

I think slower pacing and exploration are good, but god help them if the jumping is insanely difficult.

[Rafer]

No Prince of Persia version of a Tomb Raider game for me, thanks. That would completely eliminate the unique pacing and feel of the Tomb Raider games. I enjoyed playing through both PoP games, but honestly, the feel of them doesn't appeal to me as much as the original TR games did.

The funny thing about that is that the first Tomb Raider game borrowed heavily from the old 2d Prince of Persia, the whole grid based structure of it, how you pressed jump before reaching an edge, the old jump and grab, and even the spikes and chomping gates.

[MasterKwan]

I'll pay for an OK game with bouncing breasts where, I wouldn't buy it otherwise. I love me some BloodRayne from time to time. The first was better than the second because killing Nazi's is ALWAYS fun. I thought Nocturne was a great game too.

The only thing I didn't like about TR was the timed jumping. As someone else mentioned. I'm good with a deliberate pace moving forward. Having to hit a jump at the right second in sequence to a door doesn't do it for me.

What destroyed TR6 for me was the boss fights. I don't need a boss fights. I need a mystery revealed, exploration and bouncing boobs. Every time I upgrade my PC I play some TR6 because, it's a damn pretty game.

[EternalGamer]

The funny thing about that is that the first Tomb Raider game borrowed heavily from the old 2d Prince of Persia, the whole grid based structure of it, how you pressed jump before reaching an edge, the old jump and grab, and even the spikes and chomping gates.n gdegg

Yeah, I wasn't thinking about that at the time, but you're right, of course. Nevertheless, I prefer that pacing for the TR series (or something similar to it).

EDIT: I keep getting a message stating "Sorry! The administrator has specified that users can only post one message every 30 seconds." Any ideas how to get around this?

[Dirty Harry]

n gdegg

Yeah, I wasn't thinking about that at the time, but you're right, of course. Nevertheless, I prefer that pacing for the TR series (or something similar to it).

EDIT: I keep getting a message stating "Sorry! The administrator has specified that users can only post one message every 30 seconds." Any ideas how to get around this?
If you need to post in the same thread just edit your post, but if its not that situation wait a minute and think about what your posting.

[fitbabits]

EDIT: I keep getting a message stating "Sorry! The administrator has specified that users can only post one message every 30 seconds." Any ideas how to get around this?
Evil's tinkering with the server - hence the error message! (Ab)Normal service will be resumed shortly. :)

[GrinR]

It's never been about the tits. Plenty of 3D games had chicks with tits *cough* Deathtrap Dungeon *cough* that were shit because the game was shit.

It was about controlling someone who was both badass and -quick- instead of tough. Don't we all remember fighting the wolves at the beginning of TR1 and realizing holy shit I can keep running and jumping and SHE STILL FIRES AT THEM while flipping and dodging! Leaping into the cave to avoid the dino shortly after that? It was about how fun it was to play a character that was easy to play and fun to boot. Then, the puzzles and exploration put the icing on the cake. TR2 was a step in the wrong direction and they have continually moved away from a fast-action lara to a action-puzzle lara. A. Booooring B. There are plenty other games that give me those things.

I say remake Tomb Raider 1 with modern graphics and start over.

[see colon]

I say remake Tomb Raider 1 with modern graphics and start over.
i say make a new engine and a new story, and include the original game ported to the new engine for free (ala half-life source)

[GrinR]

i say make a new engine and a new story, and include the original game ported to the new engine for free (ala half-life source)

That has been the operating, and failed, strategy since TR1...

[MasterKwan]

It's never ABOUT the tits, they're just added spice. I want sex thrown into a good game, not as cover for a crappy one. It's like anime, many decent series have a touch of sex thrown in to liven up the series. When you see a series that's only fan service or that transitions to just fan service, then you know it's all over.

Look at Ninja Gaiden. You didn't need a killer chick with monster breasts to make the game good, it was already good. She just added that something extra. That's what I want to see more of. Decent games with that something extra.

[see colon]

That has been the operating, and failed, strategy since TR1...
this makes no sense. how can TR1 be "a new game, on a new engine, and includes the original ported to the new engine as a bonus", when it was a new game. no TR title has ever included the original ported to the updated engine, and no TR since the first was really about raiding tombs.

[MasterKwan]

Makes sense to me. He's saying every iteration since TR1's supposed to be a "new engine, new plot" but, that they've failed to deliver.

[ElectricMonk]

i agree with the first poster, laura croft is like the female version of duke nukem. generic maybe, but still a great idea.

they should totally revamp the laura croft games though, learn a few things from the prince of persia games.

[Rommel]

If they manage to make games as good as the original then yes, there is an interest.

[see colon]

Makes sense to me. He's saying every iteration since TR1's supposed to be a "new engine, new plot" but, that they've failed to deliver.
all tomb raider except AoD run on the same engine, and the series is notorious for monotony, so i'm not sure where this comes from.

[GrinR]

all tomb raider except AoD run on the same engine, and the series is notorious for monotony, so i'm not sure where this comes from.

Um. No.

Although there will always be the "Half Life ran on the Quake engine" people, that sort of thinking will always be seen through as the pedantic sort of quibble we can do without.

Tomb Raider has always been touted on it's newer, better, more this and more that engine with each new version. Magazine after magazine would show side-by-sides of the improvements, including close-ups of Lara's fat funbags, so let's not pretend that it's "the same engine" or that these improvements were ultimately not successful in rejuvinating the franchise.

[see colon]

obviously they made changes from title to title, but they were subtle. the main visual differences came from inproved art assets, not from the underlying technology used. all tomb raiders excluding AoD ran on modified versions of the same engine.

does quake4 not run on the doom3 engine because they are using higher poly models and improved textures along with a bit of new and updated technology (megatexture)?

half life is a special case. valve licensed both quake and quake2 technology, used basic rendering technologies from both, much of the networking code came from quake2, and the animation and interpolation code was completely propriatary.

[GrinR]

GrinR: Reloaded

see:
"the pedantic sort of quibble we can do without."