View Full Version : The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (X360/PC) Gets Pushed To 2006!
RainOfTerror
10-31-2005, 06:45 PM
WorthPlaying (http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=29534) is reporting that in its revised revenue and earnings guidance for fiscal 2005 and fiscal 2006, Take 2 confirmed not only that GTA: Liberty City Stories is delayed in Europe due to unexpected delays in final product testing and submission, but also that The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for PC and Xbox 360 has been postponed from the first quarter to the second quarter 2006, which means not before February 2006.
Cause for the delay was that Bethesda needed more time to work on the title, which in reality could mean any numbers of reasons.
Sad news, but true....
Imelman
10-31-2005, 07:03 PM
well, so much for having time to play this during the break for christmas...
spacerat100
10-31-2005, 07:05 PM
fuck. I'll be out of the country and away from my/any PC for 6-9 months around then. :[
sTubbs
10-31-2005, 07:07 PM
Works for me - I was not planning on entering the next generation until after e3 2006 anyways. I figure that there is no way that Sony or Nintendo can not show something more concrete at that venue so I will be better be equipped to make decisions. Besides, the game could apparently use some more optimization.
More time for Civ.
Take your time Bethesda, do it right. You can release on schedule and listen to the Anti-Troika camp or you can finish it first and listen to the anti-DNF camp. I say ignore 'em all.
PIPBoy3000
10-31-2005, 07:09 PM
Ouch. This was the one big game I was looking forward to before Christmas. I bought a new system recently, in part to play this one game. Sniff.
Ah well, hopefully it'll be done right. Missing the holiday shopping season has gotta hurt, though.
novicius
10-31-2005, 07:09 PM
Fine, let me be the first to say that this news pisses me off to no end... :mad:
Frogleg Special
10-31-2005, 07:10 PM
Cause of the delay: Making it for X360. None other.
fitbabits
10-31-2005, 07:11 PM
While I'm as disappointed as the next person, I'm in some ways relieved. It's one less game for me to think about buying between 11/22 and Xmas. I should be all set with what I have in mind for my Xbox 360 - Condemned, Kameo, PGR 3 and possibly PD Zero.
Sounds great, now they have time to improve the game.
Kefkataran
10-31-2005, 07:13 PM
Surely done for the right reasons. I pretty much trust Bethesda.
Kelegacy
10-31-2005, 07:13 PM
Well, this seriously puts a damper on the 360 launch. That was the only title I was even interested in. This actually benefits me a bit because now when Oblivion comes out, a price drop for the console wont be far behind (if the PS3 can actually get out the door in the Spring in Japan--which it probably wont), and I wasn't really planning on picking up a 360 until after the first one anyway, and probably not even then.
Deathbane27
10-31-2005, 07:28 PM
Half-expected, but still disheartening.
I was planning on just picking up the PC version and not getting an Xbox360 at all, but I might actually end up getting it with Kameo to tide me over until Oblivion's release.
vladthedog
10-31-2005, 07:35 PM
this totally sux.. i was actually expecting to waste my whole christmas break in front of my computer w/ this one... what's even worse is my roommate just spent close to $2000 building a new computer in time to get all the kinks worked out before oblivion came out.. once it finally does it's gonna be outdated :) heh.
i must admit, i'm actually a bit shocked, i was kinda under the impression the only reason it wasn't out yet was the x360... oh well.
Atorak
10-31-2005, 07:36 PM
This is a sad, sad day. Yet, technically it has only been pushed back a month (at the least). Could be worse, I guess.
Still, even though I want this game sooner, you have to appreciate what they are doing here. I mean, Microsoft HAD to be breathing down their necks, forcing them to finish this game for Christmas. Bethesda probably said "it won't be done in time, and we aren't pushing out a product that isn't done the way we want."
And for that, I salute you, Bethesda.
Bumbuliuz
10-31-2005, 07:37 PM
So long itīs only a few weeks I will survive. Gives me more time with the other releases and my new 42" plasma HDTV that I bought just for Xbox 360! Im a sick puppy ;)
BleedTheFreak
10-31-2005, 07:40 PM
This is a sad, sad day. Yet, technically it has only been pushed back a month (at the least). Could be worse, I guess.
Still, even though I want this game sooner, you have you appreciate what they are doing here. I mean, Microsoft HAD to be breathing down their necks, forcing them to finish this game for Christmas. Bethesda probably said "it won't be done in time, and we aren't pushing out a product that isn't done the way we want."
And for that, I salute you, Bethesda.
This is probably a good thing anyway, a game this size needs all the polish and love it can get before it's sent out to stand with the fanbois. Seriously, if this is true (it hasn't been confirmed with Bethesda yet, though it seems likely based on the source) then an extra dev cycle can mean more graphical polish, more quests, and more stable gameplay on both platforms, it's all good.
It's not like we don't have anything to keep us busy, between AoEIII, Civ IV, The Movies, Black and White 2, FEAR, Call of Duty 2, and let's not forget the slew of other FPS games, let alone the titles coming out on the 360 and other platforms between now and Christmas. Cripes, it makes my wallet cry just typing it all up.
Well, back to more Civ, those fucking Incans are going see what it feels like to have several stacks of War Chariots, Longbowmen, and Axemen putting their smallfolk to the sword.
StGeorge
10-31-2005, 07:44 PM
Folks, 2nd quarter 2006 is a euphemism for June 30, 2006 and not a day sooner. They won't release in the middle of summer, so expect this one in the November/December 2006 timeframe, which makes for a one year delay which is about right for a Bethesda title. It probably won't be playable until the third patch, so around June 2007 we'll be enjoying this game the way it was meant to be played.
Bushi
10-31-2005, 07:44 PM
Yeah it's a good idea, but it's all about driving sales on their games. Why should consumers need to pay the ticket for MS building a network to drive game sales and try and one up the competition. That should be on their dime.
Phades
10-31-2005, 07:45 PM
I shed a tear today. I wasn't going to be picking it up or the 360 at launch anyway, but now this means it won't be discounted by the time I do and I shall be forced to pay full price. :(
Evil Avatar
10-31-2005, 07:54 PM
Since GTA: Liberty City Stories is already out in the USA, I suspect this is only Europe and that you will still find Oblivion on store shelves before Christmas here in the USA.
JayK47
10-31-2005, 07:57 PM
Now I'll have time to play Gun. Although all I really wanted to play was Oblivion.
Deathbane27
10-31-2005, 08:01 PM
Since GTA: Liberty City Stories is already out in the USA, I suspect this is only Europe and that you will still find Oblivion on store shelves before Christmas here in the USA.
Now that you mention it, I seem to recall reading something... somewhere... Dev quote? ...that Take Two would be handling the European distribution and localization. But I can't locate it anymore, if it ever existed.
Anyone know what I'm blathering about or am I just (more) delusional (than usual)?
bapenguin
10-31-2005, 08:03 PM
Folks, 2nd quarter 2006 is a euphemism for June 30, 2006 and not a day sooner. They won't release in the middle of summer, so expect this one in the November/December 2006 timeframe, which makes for a one year delay which is about right for a Bethesda title. It probably won't be playable until the third patch, so around June 2007 we'll be enjoying this game the way it was meant to be played.
This is second Fiscal quarter, so that would be Feb-April 2006. While the delay sucks...this is good news for me...it gives me time to save to upgrade my PC. :)
Knite
10-31-2005, 08:06 PM
This is second Fiscal quarter, so that would be Feb-April 2006. While the delay sucks...this is good news for me...it gives me time to save to upgrade my PC. :)
Good lord penguin. Can you go 12 months without an upgrade? :p
kizke
10-31-2005, 08:10 PM
Since GTA: Liberty City Stories is already out in the USA, I suspect this is only Europe and that you will still find Oblivion on store shelves before Christmas here in the USA.
I thought I was the only one who caught this.
I haven't heard any different from any game sellers' sites in the US. I'm pretty sure this is only going to affect Europe.
Kelegacy
10-31-2005, 08:21 PM
Now I'll have time to play Gun. Although all I really wanted to play was Oblivion.
Isn't Gun coming out for the other consoles, too? If it is, why bother with a new system?
Wow, Take 2 must be really confident in Bethesda to not be throwing a shit fit over missing the christmas sales figures.
RainOfTerror
10-31-2005, 08:30 PM
Take Two does Oblivion in the US and Europe, this was announced by Take Two North America, including the subsequent conference call.
Don't get your hopes up by thinking it might be a Euro thing only, it's not.
Heretic Machine
10-31-2005, 08:45 PM
So, there is one title worth buying for the 360 this year: Kameo. That's it, that is all.
The Iron Weasel
10-31-2005, 08:52 PM
Cause of the delay: Making it for X360. None other.
Thats aboslutly rediculous..
MrPoo
10-31-2005, 09:02 PM
Let's hope so, Iron Weasel.
I would go insane if MS forced Bethesda to drop PC support to make this a 360-exclusive title, if they're hurting enough from lack of sales next year.
NoName
10-31-2005, 09:06 PM
I wonder how this will effect xbox360 sales. I mean, I have no doubt Microsoft will have it's little price gouging shortage regardless, but it sounds a lot of people will wait a bit longer than they first planned.
TheBrainKills
10-31-2005, 09:11 PM
Yup... this was my system seller for the XBox399, so it looks like I wont get one till next year. Looks like I will go on a golf trip to Cuba instead.
Jetherik
10-31-2005, 09:30 PM
We should not be surprised, unless they actually came out when they said they were.
Royal Fool
10-31-2005, 09:39 PM
Well, I had been teasing myself with perhaps buying an Xbox 360 at launch, in part to enjoy this game better than I could on my current PC...
But with this delay, Microsoft lost themselves a purchase. PGR3 alone isn't enough for me to buy that thing.
More time for F.E.A.R and more time for an upgrade.
ah stop whining, 4 or so months to wait won't kill you.
Frogleg Special
10-31-2005, 09:43 PM
Thats aboslutly rediculous..
Kathode once said the X360 DevBox came up late in Oblivion development.
Pumped'Up
10-31-2005, 09:45 PM
Fantastic news to me.
I'd rather have a bug-free high quality game than some rushed bag of crap. With the shortage of 360s at launch rumor, a mediocre launch games line-up, this game delay is more reason to hold off on the 360 purchase.
In any case, I'm *way* behind on my accumulated collection of "new" games (15+ titles).
Twigz'N'Berries
10-31-2005, 10:03 PM
I don't know what is sadder, the fact you guys didn't see this coming or the idea that you still think you are getting PGR3 around Dec 2nd. The launch window seems to be getting grimier all the time. Too Human, Saint's Row, Prey, Elder Scroll's, Frame City Killer, Full Auto, Dead Rising, Ghost Recon (which I read was graphically inferior to what they showed as in-game) and the Outfit have all been pushed back to 2006. If this is anything like the original Xbox, expect each game to be pushed back 2 or 3 times.
Then, Madden and NBA Live will have stripped down versions when compared to their current gen iterations. Gone are several of the management modes.
GUN and NFS are said to look very much like their current Gen games. I looked at NFS in this months Game Informer, and I swear the screens looked to be the same.
The only RPG we will have this year is Final Fantasy XI. Thanks, but if I want to play a classic (but crud in this case) RPG, I will dust off my Genesis (or GBA/DS) and play Phantasy Star.
The much vaunted largest launch title selection just got crippled....even more.
Oh, and before you say I'm a Sony fanboy, I have an Xbox and preordered a 360 w/4 games. Guess what, Oblivion was one of them. Guess I'll be picking up Quake or PD0 on launch day after all.
Goronmon
10-31-2005, 10:31 PM
As the time goes on, I am more and more glad I never pre-ordered a 360...
Gerbs
10-31-2005, 10:50 PM
This is the worst news i've heard all year. To think i was just drooling over the videos for Oblivion a few hours ago. Maybe i can resist the launch day lure now.
PostedOval
10-31-2005, 10:51 PM
Bummer, since this is the #1 reason why I would buy a X360. That said, I want the game to be KILLER... so I hope they take their time and do it right.
This is such bullshit. These rumours have been flying around for ages and Bethesda has maintained that its on track for launch, etc etc, no problems whatsoever. There's something to be said for honesty.
A (potentially) huge delay mere weeks before release? I call that fucking ridiculous.
I thought I was the only one who caught this.
I haven't heard any different from any game sellers' sites in the US. I'm pretty sure this is only going to affect Europe.
Please god let this be true. Don't make my christmas break really shitty.
MrPoo
10-31-2005, 11:12 PM
I'd hate for this to be delayed...
and yet...
I'd rather receive this later, and it work within a single patch.
Hey, I love Bethesda games as much as Troika games. But there have been too many wacky issues with initial releases...
OK, willing to wait a bit longer. No biggie.
FEAR scared the crap outta me with a patch on its release day, like some other recent titles. I mean, come on!!! Please...
Paltry
10-31-2005, 11:13 PM
fuck that no way in hell im getting a 360 now
that was the only game i was looking forward to
Sazime
10-31-2005, 11:39 PM
This, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., I might as well hibernate till late next year. I hate this kind of crap, especially 2 weeks or so to release. If it was going to be delyaed, let us know 8-10 months ahead of time. This is rediculous.
ldi222
10-31-2005, 11:51 PM
Im ok with this too, another reason to build a bad ass PC for Gothic III. Honestly, what would take me away from HALO2 on console anyway?
Mystery Writer X
10-31-2005, 11:52 PM
Fine by me. Now I only have to choose between Perfect Dark, Gun and DOA to pick up along with my 360.
X
Kefkataran
11-01-2005, 12:30 AM
Really, it's not even because I'm an English major that I'm annoyed at people misspelling ridiculous. It's just that people seem to feel the need to use the word so often when they're pissed off at something. But if something is seriously so 'rediculous', you think they could learn to spell for it. I mean hell. Really.
Oh, like I said earlier, fine with the delay still. Not planning to get an X360 any time soon. Hell, I'll probably be picking up an original Xbox some time next spring.
GrinR
11-01-2005, 12:37 AM
Thats aboslutly rediculous..
Public school = FAIL
GrinR
11-01-2005, 12:43 AM
So much for the only reason I would buy a Xbox360. This actually takes a LOT of pressure off my pocketbook.
Oh, and as for "getting it right" - Morrowind had tons of bugs/patches and I enjoyed it release day regardless.
Buddha Lotus
11-01-2005, 12:55 AM
I dont suppose this is a good time to say: "I told you so.."
.. but I did predict this back in August..
This is better than releasing it buggy! The previous 3 elder scroll games have all been awesome, but they came out the box bugged to all fuck and back. A bit more time in QA seems like a damn fancy idea.
Borys
11-01-2005, 01:38 AM
Im ok with this too, another reason to build a bad ass PC for Gothic III. Honestly, what would take me away from HALO2 on console anyway?
HALO 3 maybe?
Anyway this news make me really sad & mad. This was my Christmas title :(
Vandenh
11-01-2005, 03:25 AM
That ok... I wanted to buy only 2-3 games max for 360 at launch. Looks like Oblivion will be a bit later.... good for me.
BadIronTree
11-01-2005, 03:45 AM
more ti me for X-3
Grimgrock
11-01-2005, 04:21 AM
I can't think of anything else between now and 1/1/2006 that I am interested in buying/playing for console, PC, portable game player, etc. Yesterday, I just traded in a huge number of games to but the rest of the money on the ESIV preorder. I did find it a bit curious that with 2 weeks to go to the alleged release, we've had no "gone gold" press release. I am rather hoping this is just for the European release but I'm definitely not getting my hopes up.
earthworm48
11-01-2005, 04:32 AM
This is not just for Europe.
bapenguin
11-01-2005, 05:22 AM
Good lord penguin. Can you go 12 months without an upgrade? :p
Not much room to talk Mr. "It was in my cart last night but I didn't press submit order" ;)
Thenetcase
11-01-2005, 06:16 AM
More time to level my City of VIllains character.
This does kind of irritate me, but I'd rather have a complete and FINISHED game than have them release a product that's buggy and needs polishing. Especially since it's an RPG of this scale.
-TNC-
DropD98
11-01-2005, 06:21 AM
This is fine by me as it will help my wallet feel a lot better at launch... Just wish Amped3 was coming out at launch, then that announcement wouldn't have stung so much... I'll just stick to PD0 and PGR3 to hold me over, even though Oblivion was to be the "main game" that was to suck all my time up... besides, it'll just be cool, to me at least, being able to stream my music and videos from my PC with the 360...
jacktion
11-01-2005, 06:49 AM
I remember when the 360 fanboys were saying how it was going to have "40 titlez!" when it was released. They didn't seem to realize that every company says that and then delays all of them. Now that is exactly what is happening. I am afraid that gamers have no memory. When the next generation comes around and they show videos of what the PS4 is capable of I'm sure people will believe that that is real too. :o
fitbabits
11-01-2005, 06:52 AM
I remember when the 360 fanboys were saying how it was going to have "40 titlez!" when it was released.
I simply don't recall anyone, fanboy or not, writing something as ridiculous as "titlez". Apart from you, that is. :rolleyes:
TRiLoGY
11-01-2005, 06:57 AM
Ah Nuts..
This was the only game I was looking forward to on X360..
Guess I wont need to get an X360 until after XMAS..
Thenetcase
11-01-2005, 07:15 AM
Ah Nuts..
This was the only game I was looking forward to on X360..
Guess I wont need to get an X360 until after XMAS..
Which means you can get one just in time for the spring price cut that is inevitably coming... so they can sell more units after everyone's broke from Christmas shopping. :)
-TNC-
Twigz'N'Berries
11-01-2005, 07:17 AM
I simply don't recall anyone, fanboy or not, writing something as ridiculous as "titlez". Apart from you, that is. :rolleyes:
You are right Fits. But 360 was supposed to have 40 titles within launch window...which was from launch until the end of the year. How good has MS made on that?
Amped 3 (2K Games) ...I've seen the graphics, it's more like Mellow 3
Call of Duty 2 (Activision) ...Day 1 GOODNESS!!!
Condemned (Sega) ...Sleeper Hit...looks intriguing!!!
Dead Or Alive 4 (Tecmo) ...AKA DOA Ultimate Sameness
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (Bethesda) Umm..Not this year
Final Fantasy XI (Microsoft) Maybe...but does anyone care?
Full Auto (Sega) Sorry, not quite full enough.
Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter Sorry, it is out on Recon til' maybe Jan
Gun (Activision) Wow, this looks a lot like my Xbox version!
Kameo: Elements of Power (Microsoft) Thank God
Madden NFL 06 (EA) ...or 'Madden Lite', Great Looks, Less Filling
NBA 2K6 (2K Games) ...should be sweet
NHL 2K6 (2K Games) ...should be sweet
The Outfit (THQ) ...still being outfitted til March
Perfect Dark LE (Microsoft) ...AKA, she looks better in the dark
Project Gotham Racing 3 (Microsoft) ...project under construction, not making launch.
Quake 4 (Activision) ...should be sweet
Ridge Racer 6 (Namco) ...hey, we do have a next gen racer available at launch!!
Saints Row (THQ) ...in church til March, yowza.
Tony Hawk's American Wasteland (Activision) ...waste of money if you buy it. I've seen it live...i'd rather play a Gizmondo.
Top Spin 2 (2K Games) ...Game. Set. March.
FIFA Soccer 06 ...the most complete football you will play on the 360
Peter Jackson's King Kong ...yay, movie licensed goodness!!
NBA Live 06 ...or 'Live Lite' Great Looks, Less Filling.
Need For Speed Most Wanted ...AKA Need for Differentiation from Current Gen Game.
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06...I heard Tiger was looking more like John Daly graphically. Oh yeah, it will have less courses than current Gen too.
With all that said, it is still the greatest launch lineup in history. That is more due to launch lineups generally having less than 12 choices. I'm perplexed as to what happened to "The Darkness", "Frame City Killer", "Godfather"..etc. They have all been delayed. But Elder Scrolls hurt the most.
I weep for my pre-ordered dollars. I really hope Condemned turns out to be the game i'm hoping it will be.
Twigz'N'Berries
11-01-2005, 07:28 AM
Which means you can get one just in time for the spring price cut that is inevitably coming... so they can sell more units after everyone's broke from Christmas shopping. :)
-TNC-
Wow, a price cut around 3-6 months after the consoles release? I just have a hard time believing that one.
fitbabits
11-01-2005, 07:32 AM
Wow, a price cut around 3-6 months after the consoles release? I just have a hard time believing that one.
It's not beyond the reals of possibility, though. And, in fact, there is a precedent - Microsoft dropped the price of the original Xbox in Europe within months of it being released.
MrMeatshake
11-01-2005, 07:37 AM
right. i ain't buying at christmas, then. the end.
NoName
11-01-2005, 07:56 AM
You are right Fits. But 360 was supposed to have 40 titles within launch window...which was from launch until the end of the year. How good has MS made on that?
Amped 3 (2K Games) ...I've seen the graphics, it's more like Mellow 3
Zing!
For some reason that was fairly amusing to me this morning... I think I need more sleep (aka coffee).
fitbabits
11-01-2005, 08:02 AM
Zing!
For some reason that was fairly amusing to me this morning... I think I need more sleep (aka coffee).
This was my favorite:
Top Spin 2 (2K Games) ...Game. Set. March. :D
Half Life 2?
And I was pissed of then, too. We all should be. If developers see that pulling this kind of shit loses them sales, then they won't do it - or at very least they won't leave until mere weeks before reported launch to announce. Hell, bethesda hasn't even made a statement on this yet. The day we all just forgive developers for missing deadlines is the day that they think they can do it more and more without any repurcussions. If they know they can't make the release date now, they knew it three months ago. Its not like they suddenly realized that they have 2-3 months more work to do before its released.
Kefkataran
11-01-2005, 09:25 AM
The day we all just forgive developers for missing deadlines
Uh, deadlines? These guys are making a videogame, not pushing out a monthly magazine.
Thenetcase
11-01-2005, 09:33 AM
Uh, deadlines? These guys are making a videogame, not pushing out a monthly magazine.
Deadlines are dates by which, if you don't get your product out, you will lose millions of dollars and/or completely lose your subscription base or consumer base. Obviously deadline does not apply here. I think that a better word would be "target date". But the person who creates the target date has every right to move the target date if their product isn't ready.
The main difference between a target date and a deadline is that you can't miss a deadline, where as you can't meet a target date if your product still sucks or isn't complete. IF you DO meet the target date with an incomplete product or a piece of crap product, the same thing will happen to you as happens to someone who MISSES a deadline.
Anyone actually agree that this makes sense? ;)
-TNC-
ArkMan
11-01-2005, 10:03 AM
And I was pissed of then, too. We all should be. If developers see that pulling this kind of shit loses them sales, then they won't do it - or at very least they won't leave until mere weeks before reported launch to announce. Hell, bethesda hasn't even made a statement on this yet. The day we all just forgive developers for missing deadlines is the day that they think they can do it more and more without any repurcussions. If they know they can't make the release date now, they knew it three months ago. Its not like they suddenly realized that they have 2-3 months more work to do before its released.
I don't mean to sound like a prick (although I'm sure it will come to that), but coming from someone who works in the visual FX industry I have to ask:
Just who the fuck do you think you are?
People shouldn't "forgive" them, and their should be "repurcussions", are you kidding me? I'm sorry to direct this at you, but it's really just the entire mentality that gamers are owed something that gets under my skin. I'm glad to see that a lot of people are not so short sighted (one of the main reasons why I frequent EA), and can actually fathom the scope and scale of this project. Therefore leading to the simple conclusion that if more time is needed to get it done right, than give it more time and get the damn thing done right. Maybe my anger stems from us just coming off the heels of a project with a narrow minded demanding client, that practically crippled the project (and in turn, my free time) with his concrete deadlines. The fact that Bathesda actually has the freedom is a blessing you can be assured of that.
Now, don't get me wrong, I want to play this game as much as the next guy, and this news is a total bummer for sure. I just think some people need a little perspective (or a good slap up side the head....err... sorry, little residual anger) and realize that in the long run, when the game is finally in your sweaty little hands, that it was all worth it.
GoblinToe
11-01-2005, 10:03 AM
Take your time, Bethesda! Take all the time you need. Another year, or even two.
I won't go into a long tirade about how the gaming industry pumps out beta crap long before it should be on shelves, but instead, I will point you to one recent title: X3: The Reunion.
The retail product that you held in your hands if you purchased X3 was an unplayable, buggy pile of shit. Just like X2: The Threat was. Exactly like it was, in fact. (EgoSoft, you suck.) Because developers AND distributors know they can get away with it time and time again. Well, I was sick of it a long time ago. Now I accept it, but I don't buy games much anymore, either.
Bethesda is definitely not piled in with most devs. In fact, I consider them a true gem among a mountain of bland, unpolished rock, and Oblivion will show this. So, I don't get angry when one of the best RPGs in production gets pushed back a few months, or even a year...because the alternative is exactly what we get time and time again with 90% of the other game developers out there. Unplayable, bug-ridden shit.
score
11-01-2005, 11:16 AM
Man this sucks. Was really looking forward to getting my mits on the PC version.
I guess Microsoft won't mind so much. It's still making their 'launch window' (whatever that is :rolleyes: )
Knite
11-01-2005, 01:08 PM
Not much room to talk Mr. "It was in my cart last night but I didn't press submit order" ;)
Hey, I gotta draw the line somewhere.
Althought, it is kinda like saying "Just the tip, I promise"
Twigz'N'Berries
11-01-2005, 01:24 PM
Deadlines are dates by which, if you don't get your product out, you will lose millions of dollars and/or completely lose your subscription base or consumer base. Obviously deadline does not apply here. I think that a better word would be "target date". But the person who creates the target date has every right to move the target date if their product isn't ready.
The main difference between a target date and a deadline is that you can't miss a deadline, where as you can't meet a target date if your product still sucks or isn't complete. IF you DO meet the target date with an incomplete product or a piece of crap product, the same thing will happen to you as happens to someone who MISSES a deadline.
Anyone actually agree that this makes sense? ;)
-TNC-
You are kidding right? If you don't think that missing the initial launch of a console, right before Christmas and the day after Thanksgiving won't effect your sales, then you underestimate the importance of this Holiday season. A large portion of gamers will purchase a game w/their system and have never played it before. They want a game to go along w/their new system. Oblivion would have been that game for a large number of 'hardcore' gamers. Gamers who love RPGs are essentially left without any options on the 360 at launch.
With the game being delayed until next year, this is no longer a title that will be purchased without testing for some. I know I will now rent it first.
People shouldn't "forgive" them, and their should be "repurcussions", are you kidding me? I'm sorry to direct this at you, but it's really just the entire mentality that gamers are owed something that gets under my skin. I'm glad to see that a lot of people are not so short sighted (one of the main reasons why I frequent EA), and can actually fathom the scope and scale of this project. Therefore leading to the simple conclusion that if more time is needed to get it done right, than give it more time and get the damn thing done right. Maybe my anger stems from us just coming off the heels of a project with a narrow minded demanding client, that practically crippled the project (and in turn, my free time) with his concrete deadlines. The fact that Bathesda actually has the freedom is a blessing you can be assured of that.
Not kidding you. So just about everyone else in their professions have set deadlines, but game programmers should be exempt? Let's pretend everyone took that kind of attitude. Actors and movie directors could pretty much stretch on projects until they felt like developing and editing their projects. Studios would be screwed and their financial planning would suffer. Oh, and the fans that helped make the movie popular and profitable are owed nothing. What if construction crews did the same thing...that would play havok streets, freeways, home construction...etc.
The idea that nothing is owed to the gamer, irritates me. Who do you think buys the games? Who do you think makes it possible to have the jobs you do? If it weren't for us gamers, you wouldn't have a market for your product. It irritates me when developers/programmers feel that we are owed nothing and that consumers should shut up and eat whatever crumbs you brush off of the table. If you don't have a release date, then don't give one. If your game will be delayed, issue an apology at the least. A bit of decency and good treatment of your consumers would go a long way.
Oh, and as far as your demanding client, I'm sure you had a deadline set when you contracted to make his product. Why in hell should he be considered the jerk when he wanted his product, in good condition, when he contracted for it. Your bosses or whomever agreed to the contracted date is the one you should be pissed with.
You've gone a bit extreme with your views there dude. I don't think Bethseda owe us anything, my fandom was won by the awesome games they have already shipped, not promises for future games.
If the game is not ready, how can they ship it? This is brand spanking new tech they are dealing with here. Software is hard to do right, and damn hard to estimate already and when you combine that with something as intangible as the "feel" of a game, making sure its fun, delays are bound to occur.
There is a huge difference between a client being pissed off by a software house missing their deadlines and this. In one case the client is paying for the development of the software. We don't lay down a single dollar until that game is ready to play, so making sure its finished when we lay down our money should be the priority, not anything else.
Thanks Twigz. Im glad somebody sees where I'm coming from.
Now, Arkman, I'll tell you who I am. I'm the guy that shells out money to game companies. I'm the guy that feeds their kids. I am their market. Like Twigz said, why should the game industry be different than any other? If they want my business they should ship when I expected them too (and I expected them to ship based on what they said). Will I buy Oblivion now? Im honestly not sure. The big lure of this game was having a month of christmas break to play it. Now when it comes out I'll probably be too busy with school and not have time for it at all. Now you're probably thinking, well so what. One prick on the internet won't buy their product. But imagine what the average gamer (aka one that doesnt frequent EA, or even keep up on gaming news) will think. They'll go pick up their 360, look for this cool Oblivion game they heard about, and not finding it, will pick up some other title. Repeat that scene thousands of times and there you have a large chunk of money that bethesda will never get.
And that is what bothers me. I want bethesda to do well, because I think they make damn good games. And the more money the make, the more opportunity they will have to make more games. And they're not going to make money by missing deadlines/target dates/whatever.
why should the game industry be different than any other?
But its not! How many delays and feature cuts has Windows Vista had? The truth is that most shrink wrapped software is hugely delayed. We only notice it with games as we follow them so fervently.
bean19
11-01-2005, 02:05 PM
Bah! I hope DoA 4 is a launch title. Oblivion was my only other sure thing to buy. I want to own a few games for the system rather than just relying on Gamefly.
Still going to be a great launch, but the lack of any NEW RPG (I played and have already left FF XI on the PC - too group dependent) will be a serious chink in their lineup. Maybe Enchant Arm will get translated quickly.
But its not! How many delays and feature cuts has Windows Vista had? The truth is that most shrink wrapped software is hugely delayed. We only notice it with games as we follow them so fervently.
True enough, but you don't see windows fans saying "They can do whatever they want! They dont owe us a new OS! We should all be grateful their taking the time to make it better, and we should just accept that its for the best and still give them our money!"
Its this attitude that really bothers me. If we want game companies to improve planning, to not delay games, to meet their own deadlines, then we have to tell them that it pisses us off when they dont do these things. Sitting around assuming that they always know whats best for us isnt going to do anything but reinforce the concept that its ok to treat customers this way.
If we gave every game 95%, no matter what flaws it has, do you think games would get better, or worse?
But then wait, IGN already does that.
GRR I seriously want this game, its one of the games I picked in my pre-order bundle from WalMart. I'm just seriously disappointed that I'm only getting two of those games with my bundle and months from now the third. I called WalMart to see if its possible to change the game to something else, because I can just purchase it in a store when it comes out. They said the only way they could do it is if I cancel my current order and pre-order again, but since I actually pre-ordered long before they "ran out" I wouldn't be guarenteed to receive the pre-order on the right date anyways. So obviously I said "no thanks". :(
The only way you could get firm deadlines would be to use existing well tested technology, and scope your game concept so it was a known entitiy. Oblivion is pushing both the technology boundary and the game design boundary and so I can understand a delay.
You want to buy games from a company that meets its deadlines? Then buy EA games, they always meet there deadlines.
Guess what baz? People do buy EA games. Last time I checked they were making a lot of money. I dont think that in order to make deadlines a company must give up creativity or innovation. I think a happy medium can be found. I understand the delay too, but that doesnt mean I'm ok with it.
Murmillo
11-01-2005, 03:18 PM
Anybody have any information on Ninty Nine Nights. Its like a Kingdom Under Fire - but supercharged... that may keep my interest if I am able to get a 360 on launch week, but I no longer have the desire to fight and kill for one [360] *sad panda*
bapenguin
11-01-2005, 04:39 PM
Anybody have any information on Ninty Nine Nights. Its like a Kingdom Under Fire - but supercharged... that may keep my interest if I am able to get a 360 on launch week, but I no longer have the desire to fight and kill for one [360] *sad panda*
Last I heard it's a launch window title. Right now the release date is launch day, but I'm not so sure...
ArkMan
11-01-2005, 04:40 PM
baz, thanks for pretty much reading my mind buddy, I agree with everything you've said so far. As for Twigz and ezra, I see your guys points and from a gamers perspective, they are highly valid (though admittedly a little extreme). I just think that they lack a little of exactly that, "perspective". You can say that it irritates you "when developers/programmers feel that we are owed nothing and that consumers should shut up and eat whatever crumbs you brush off of the table." and while you may feel that way, I highly doubt that's what the dudes at Bathesda (or most other respectable developers) are thinking. It's probably more along the lines of:
"Dammit, we know people are eagerly awating Oblivion, and it would be great to have it out for the launch of the 360 (both for the fans and financially as well), but the fact is that it's just not quite where we'd like it to be. So if we have the opportunity to take some extra time and really make this baby shine, lets take it, because in the end the gamer wins."
Now of course that's pure speculation, but I would hope that you'd get the point. Bathesda is not EA, because if they were, you would most definitly be playing Oblivion on Nov. 22. Only difference being that you would probably be on a message board later that day complaining about how many features have been cut and what a bug ridden shell of a great game it turned out to be.
As for the examples of movies and even construction getting delayed.... umm...... though my knowledge of those industries is far from intricate, I would say that they get delayed ALL THE TIME. Of course it is not at the employee's leisure, and as I have said, I doubt they are doing it out of spite, or just for fun. Fact of the matter is that they are game developers, producing electronic entertainment for peoples enjoyment NOT foreign aid workers delivering medical supplies and rations for peoples survival. Shit happens man, deal with it.
As for my personal situation, Twigz you're right, and I was pissed at my boss, but it was for letting the client essentially triple the work that we had to do, while still keeping the same deadline. Basically we got pushed around, and the final product suffered, so in the end we didn't give two shits and just wanted to get it out the door. That is most definitly not something I want to see happen to our precious Oblivion.
Kefkataran
11-01-2005, 05:23 PM
Deadlines are dates by which, if you don't get your product out, you will lose millions of dollars and/or completely lose your subscription base or consumer base. Obviously deadline does not apply here.
My point exactly.
I'm sorry to direct this at you, but it's really just the entire mentality that gamers are owed something that gets under my skin.
And then there's that too. I agree with you.
So just about everyone else in their professions have set deadlines, but game programmers should be exempt?
They have to get the game out to ever make the money back to eat, and generally publishers will be pushing for that, so no, they aren't exempt. But gamers hold little over them. Not paying to play a game cause it didn't make the originally projected release date? That's your choice. It's just a dumb one. Besides, don't publishers usually create the stupid release dates anyways, and not devs?
Who do you think buys the games? Who do you think makes it possible to have the jobs you do? If it weren't for us gamers, you wouldn't have a market for your product. It irritates me when developers/programmers feel that we are owed nothing and that consumers should shut up and eat whatever crumbs you brush off of the table.
Uh, the point of pushing back release dates is that they AREN'T burshing crumbs off the table. Otherwise they're rushing an unfunished, likely far more crappy product out the door.
The only way you could get firm deadlines would be to use existing well tested technology, and scope your game concept so it was a known entitiy. Oblivion is pushing both the technology boundary and the game design boundary and so I can understand a delay.
This is another important point, I think. I dunno, to me it just doesn't make sense to have "deadlines" in a field that can be so unpredictable as game design. Even if you have everything ready, it's not uncommon to discover a game-killing bug and end up needing to push back another week or two while you fix that.
People don't take this ridiculous "stick by the deadlines" attitude with other art mediums (film, literature, etc.), so why should they with videogames?
People don't take this ridiculous "stick by the deadlines" attitude with other art mediums (film, literature, etc.), so why should they with videogames?
True enough. But there are a large number of differences between these - literature and film don't depend so directly on technology that is always increasing. Videogames, if they are delayed get outdated quickly. Also, gamers tend to expect more, and 'latch onto' certain games more than others. Personally I think thats an indication of how strong of a medium videogames are. By the same token, many gamers tend to 'latch onto' certain companies and become, for lack of a better word, fanboys. Its (to generalize liberally) mostly these people that exhibit the attitude that im trying to confront - the idea that we should all just shut up and take what we get is ridiculous. I don't doubt for a second that in the present situation, Bethesda has made the right choice. They wouldnt have this delay unless they needed it. But does that mean I'm just going to sit idly by? No, because I would have preferred Bethesda avoiding this situation altogether. Its not like something out of their control caused this delay - it was simply they needed more time, or in other words, they didnt meet their own intended deadline (holidays 2005, which has been their standard line for months now).
Bah, anyways im just repeating myself. No ones going to read this anyways. But just in case, G'night.
Kefkataran
11-02-2005, 02:04 AM
literature and film don't depend so directly on technology that is always increasing.
Film arguably does, but to a lesser degree (that is only getting smaller as time passes), so not really.
Videogames, if they are delayed get outdated quickly.
Arguable. Personally, I'd argue this point a lot. Obviously games depend upon technology to run, but I don't think the technology behind the game is honestly that big of a factor in whether or not it's a good game unless you're buying it just so you can own the newest, prettiest-looking game on the block. And if that's why you're buying it, you wouldn't care about the games-as-art argument at all, and then deadlines would make sense, as would having EA eat up every other developer left so they can just turn out cookie-cutters with pretty graphics.
Its (to generalize liberally) mostly these people that exhibit the attitude that im trying to confront - the idea that we should all just shut up and take what we get is ridiculous.
I see your point, and fanboys annoy me as much as the next guy. But I think the vast majority of people posting here are not what you would call fanboys. And you're arguing against the wrong things. It's when game companies release games that are vastly different than what they promised, be it through missing features (Fable), being bug-ridden messes (90% of PC releases), or just plain sucking. The plain truth is that pushing back release dates tends to make these things less likely.
No, because I would have preferred Bethesda avoiding this situation altogether. Its not like something out of their control caused this delay - it was simply they needed more time, or in other words, they didnt meet their own intended deadline (holidays 2005, which has been their standard line for months now).
Er, well, that is kind of out of their control, isn't it? I mean obviously they were working to meet their deadline, and obviously they didn't. Once they've reached the point where they know they won't have the game finished to the point they want it at for release in time for the "deadline", it's out of their control. They either have to release a game that's less than they (and likely the gamers) want, or they have to push back the release date. The fact that they *can* push back the release date is why release dates can't be considered deadlines.
I totally understand where you're coming from a lot better now, I just don't think you're fighting the right battle here. Does it suck that this got pushed back? Oh yeah. But in the end, it's almost definitely better for the game and the eventual players of the game, so beyond being disappointed, I don't think there's much to be done.
Kefkataran:
True enough. This news just really got to me (especially the way bethesda has treated it - still no statement, and if the delay is true, it totally came out of left field). I admit the argument was more....choleric than it had to be, but any more moderate argument wouldnt have gotten anyones attention, and similarily, if we all say 'we're ok' with delays over and over, its only going to make it more likely that a developer will permit delays in the future. I certainly understand taht in the present situation this delay is a good thing. But as far as my argument goes, let me quote a poster present i'm sure, in every highschool: "If you shoot for the moon, even if you miss, you'll end up among the stars"
Kefkataran
11-02-2005, 11:00 AM
Ha, I've never seen that poster. Cute though. :p
Like I said, I think we agree pretty much in principle, so it's cool.
orgndonr
11-06-2005, 12:54 PM
TES is by far the best game i've ever played, and if bethesda needs more time to polish. I say put out the best game they can cause I know I will be playing to the exclusion of all else.
orgndonr
11-06-2005, 01:14 PM
Anyone play Dungeon Lords....not a bad hack/slash but lots of missing content and bugs.....bet they made their deadline.
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