LittleBigPlanet's Controls Aren't Quite Right Yet

[modeps]

Media Molecule's Mark Healey (co-founder) has come out and said that his company hasn't gotten the controls for this build-your-own-adventure game quite right yet. Shacknews has the story (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/55139):

Speaking to Eurogamer, Healey admits that "The Z [axis] movement is an incredibly hard thing for us to get right. There's times when it annoys me actually, but we can work on that if we want."

According to Healey, getting the controls right is partly difficult "because we wanted to cater for my mother and someone that's a hardcore player."

While it certainly is refreshing for someone in game development to admit flaws, LBP ships this month. Are they going to be able to fix the issues prior to gold, or release a day zero patch?

[BalekFekete]

The only 'annoying' part of the z-axis is my Sackboy is perpetually looking upwards. Other than that, I don't see the issue. *shrugs*

[Demo_Boy]

LBP will be midway through the release test cycle at this point, so this issue will ship, unless the game fails for some other reason and they roll up the fixes. But a fail for some other reason would also mean a delay.

[rjcc]

it's true, the controls are a bit sloppy and make some of the platforming harder than it has to be, but on the whole, for such na ambitious effort they work pretty well.

I think frustration with the controls and a lot of the levels (little stuff, like items not respawning can make even easy levels very frustrating in a hurry) is part of what holds this back from being a surefire mainstream hit.

[trip1eX]

AT this point though not to have the controls done???

I mean aren't the controls central to the playability of the game?

It seems like they are working backwards.

I get the feeling the developers are very talented production value type of people, but aren't game developers.

I don't think LBP is going to take off. Overrated or overhyped comes to mind.

[Furious Wang]

Insanely overrated and overhyped. Spore at least had these big grand ideas so even if most of its features were ripoffs, the fact that they were all being combined was exciting! LBP is just Platform Maker and that's about it. It isn't a game for the hardcore. It isn't a game for the casual. Its a game for the lazy creatives out there. The one's that want to make gaming related stuff, but don't want to learn how to program. In other words, this game wouldn't have much of an audience at all if the gaming media (each of them lazy creatives) didn't hype it so much.

[Flatpicker]

Insanely overrated and overhyped. Spore at least had these big grand ideas so even if most of its features were ripoffs, the fact that they were all being combined was exciting! LBP is just Platform Maker and that's about it. It isn't a game for the hardcore. It isn't a game for the casual. Its a game for the lazy creatives out there. The one's that want to make gaming related stuff, but don't want to learn how to program. In other words, this game wouldn't have much of an audience at all if the gaming media (each of them lazy creatives) didn't hype it so much.

Be careful with this.
Having an opposing opinion regarding LBP can start a flamewar worse than Batman TDK did.
BTW, I do agree with you.

Notice how people are willing to justify the sloppy controls. Another title would have been shredded already.

[ElfShotTheFood]

This just in: LBP has been downgraded from "Bigger than YouTube" to "About the same size as Vimeo."

[modeps]

Be careful with this.
Having an opposing opinion regarding LBP can start a flamewar worse than Batman TDK did.
BTW, I do agree with you.

Notice how people are willing to justify the sloppy controls. Another title would have been shredded already.

I admit I want to play LBP just due to the lovely style, but I have my doubts about how long its tail will be.

How often do you guys use Forge in Halo 3? I think I played with it for about 10 minutes before returning to the standard game. Yeah, it was neat, but it wasn't for me.

[Flatpicker]

I admit I want to play LBP just due to the lovely style.

I think the sackboy thing is brilliant. Still hoping they will sell actual sackboy figures. I just have no faith in the community aspect of a $60 game. Those things take time to build and I know that I have less and less time for things like that, so I imagine that others are in the same boat.

Now that they say the controlls are sloppy, it seems like a real miss.
They should have brought Jaffe on board to oversee the controlls. God of War controls so well.

This is all Sony internal teams right?

[Hecubus]

Are they going to be able to fix the issues prior to gold, or release a day zero patch?

I thought LBP had already gone gold about a week or two ago.

From the story, sounds like they're more frustrated with z-axis controls rather than traditional controls, so maybe a patch if enough people raise it as an issue like Lair did. Though I don't think z-axis is as important to gameplay for LBP as it was for Lair initially.

[Mr.Gurbic]

Insanely overrated and overhyped. Spore at least had these big grand ideas so even if most of its features were ripoffs, the fact that they were all being combined was exciting! LBP is just Platform Maker and that's about it. It isn't a game for the hardcore. It isn't a game for the casual. Its a game for the lazy creatives out there. The one's that want to make gaming related stuff, but don't want to learn how to program. In other words, this game wouldn't have much of an audience at all if the gaming media (each of them lazy creatives) didn't hype it so much.

I am a 3d Artist. I'm not lazy. I know the software that they use and am very excited about this game. Don't go generalizing the people who are going to play this game. It's gonna be a Hit

[Syl]

I somewhat agree with Furious Wang.

I've been watching LittleBigPlanet more and more closely over the past few weeks. I honestly don't see where all the hype is from. It was roughly the same time that new levels started showing up that I realized...

The game looks like it'll be boring. Very boring.

Yes, it's a platformer, yes, there are absolutely incredible options for making your own levels. The problem is that Sackboy controls very slow and floaty.

If you have a platformer that is slow and floaty, you need to at least need to be able to have the character do something other than.. Platform. Contra is alright for you moving slowly because you have a billion (also slow) bullets to dodge and you shoot shit. Almost every successful 2d platform game ~ stuff like Mario, Sonic, Ninja Gaiden, Prince of Persia(2d), Donkey Kong Country even more indie games like Cave Story, KNYTT, Meatboy, "N". You know what they have in common?

You move fast, you have a palpable feel of speed with your character, all of them have some sort of general physics feeling to your character. If you run and jump, you go farther.

The other successful 2d platformers: Contra, Castlevania*, Megaman*, Metroid, Metal Slug, Alien Hominid, Duke Nukem...
They all managed to do well because they had lots and lots of shit being thrown at your character at once; you didn't move fast, the jumping was short and precise, but you had to be careful of every single step you took.

*All 3 of these games made "fast movement" possible and *necessary* in latter sequels. Speed Boost in Metroid, Dash in Megaman, Various abilities in Castlevania. (Wolf Form, "Black Panther" soul and similar, Moonjump boots).

-Stuff like Kirby, Wario, Klanoa, Astro Boy, etc. are all more puzzle based, and the main character having special abilities to manipulate the world.

The closest 2.5d* platformer I can think of that was successful were the paper mario titles, and those games weren't really about the platforming. If you're going to have 2.5, you need to have more options than just running and jumping. I honestly don't believe that LBP has enough legs to stand on once people get over the cool creation aspect.

*I'm talking about a mainly 2d game with a limited vertical plane access. Not something like Kirby 64 where it's entirely 2d but with pretty graphical effects such as camera rotation.

Sure, you can create and script some awesome levels, but the ability for sackboy to to do interesting stuff with them is pretty much nonexistant. I originally thought the game looked awesome for a PSN title, but i think it's a little bit ridiculous for them to charge full price for it. (I can say the same about WarioLand: Shake it, albeit the animation in that title is phenomenal)

The fact that he doesn't feel that the controls are done yet also worries me. Controls and good feeling are the absolute most important thing for a platformer games that relies almost purely upon *platforming*. With the other axis, i doubt that the controls will ever feel perfectly right for precision platforming.

[modeps]

Syl, I love your posts.

[Flatpicker]

I am a 3d Artist. I'm not lazy. I know the software that they use and am very excited about this game. Don't go generalizing the people who are going to play this game. It's gonna be a Hit

Good for you.
Don't take this so personal don't cha know.
Don't be generalizing it's going to be a hit before it even hits the market.
Seems like generalizing could go both ways.

Although, it would be a rare lazy person to admit that they are lazy.
Hmmm??:D

Admits I'm a lazy gamer, don't want to bother making levels. Just playing.

[Flatpicker]

Syl, I love your posts.

same here.
I wish I had your ability to come off as civil on a forum.

[ElektroDragon]

OH NO! NOT ANOTHER LAIR..... *rips out hair*

[Mr.Gurbic]

Good for you.
Don't take this so personal don't cha know.
Don't be generalizing it's going to be a hit before it even hits the market.
Seems like generalizing could go both ways.

Although, it would be a rare lazy person to admit that they are lazy.
Hmmm??:D

Admits I'm a lazy gamer, don't want to bother making levels. Just playing.

There's a big difference in generalizing and making a prediction. Don'tcha know

[Mr.Green]

The hype and expectations for this game have reached unhealthy levels. I'm sure the critics will love it because user created content is extremely geek chic. I'm sure creative people with lots of free time on their hands will love it as well. But I just don't see the interest for the average gamer looking for an actual game.

It's a niche title. Definitely not the mass-market success it's cracked up to be. At least the way I see it.

[Flatpicker]

I'll have to try it. That control thing scares me though.
Just found a beta code from a week ago in my email. Expires on 10/11 so i suppose i should use it.

[Orz]

I somewhat agree with Furious Wang.

I've been watching LittleBigPlanet more and more closely over the past few weeks. I honestly don't see where all the hype is from. It was roughly the same time that new levels started showing up that I realized...

The game looks like it'll be boring. Very boring.

Yes, it's a platformer, yes, there are absolutely incredible options for making your own levels. The problem is that Sackboy controls very slow and floaty.

This is irksome on occasion, especially unintentional plane-shifting. It hasn't happened to me yet in the Media Molecule-designed levels, and it can be eliminated by constructing your level around that propensity. 'Floaty' jumps likewise can be somewhat compensated for by using material your Sackboy can grab onto. I won't claim the controls are perfect, but they're very far from the train wreck this thread seems to imply.

I'd like to address the claim that this game is only for 'lazy' people unwilling to learn a programming language. If, say, a clever 'indie' game is a work of art, then it's true that LBP is as artistic as a Lego set; you're limited in what you can create by the tools provided by you. Does that mean there is no value to be had in playing with those tools? What can be created is as varied as the people doing the creation; no two levels will be alike. Yes, many will be unpolished and fun for brief spurts, but that's how user ratings act as a filter. Even if you play an unrated level, and find it to be drab, so what? There are hundreds more to try.

I've found a fascinating array of level ideas out there, and not all are platformers. The one I'm about to publish isn't a platformer.

I don't own a PS3; I've been creating my level and playing others on my roommate's system. It further boggles my mind that the same people deriding this game also complain that the gaming industry rewards repetition of a few game archetypes, that original ideas go unrewarded. LBP is not revolutionary, but it has enough unique elements to make it a standout title. It deserves success, if only to drive other producers to be more creative in their titles.