Bioshock PS3 Demo Shows Some Graphical Issues [Archive]

modeps

10-05-2008, 05:12 PM

VE3D (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41965/BioShock-PS3-Demo-Graphics-All-Kinds-of-Broken) is running a troubling story about the graphical quality in the PS3 port of last years GOTY, Bioshock. Comparison shots are included as well as some seriously broken Big Daddy closeup screen shots.

First, I want to thank you for the acute attention to detail and the Spartan level of expectation our most devoted BioShock fans hold us to, and how excited you are and attentive to the BioShock PS3 demo. When we saw a post asking about issues found in the demo, we jumped on it immediately. And you know what, you're right. The texture in the PS3 demo of the downed Big Daddy does not match our level of quality either. This slipped by. We admit it. However, I want to assure you that this is an exception, and not a rule, and while I regret this oversight, we put a lot of love into making this game look amazing for the PS3 and I'm sure that when you play the rest of the demo you will agree that the textures are not all like this one instance.

As for the other issues and concerns, we are currently diligently working to replicate any bugs, and will report back to you with what we find. Thank you for your vigilance here and moving forward.

Big Daddy Closeups (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1223727&postcount=153) - Additional Comparisons (http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/20081004#1223141168)

If this is in the demo, chances are its also in the pressed versions.

Dirty Harry

10-05-2008, 05:16 PM

Thats some serious pixel distortion on those textures.

Suicidal ShiZuru

10-05-2008, 05:25 PM

Its a conspiracy against Sony because the PS3 is so inferior to the 360. /cough

Thats pretty damn bad, certain elements look better though, like the fire.

moron

10-05-2008, 05:28 PM

It's already come out that some of the supposed 360 shots posted were actually from the PC version. The blurriness that some folks were seeing was due to upscaling on the PS3 to 1080i/p which could be fixed by unchecking the appropriate box in the XMB.

Not commenting on the texture issue though as I didn't notice it during my play through of the demo. I did notice some strangely blocky blood though so there may indeed be a bug there (did not seem like crappy textures so much as a bug in rendering them).

Can't test further as I deleted the demo so as not to spoil the experience for me as I plan to grab the game as soon as it's released for the PS3.

Cheers

DarkDaY

10-05-2008, 05:45 PM

No it is not up to par visually, that much is apparent, but if the framerate is fine, the visual difference is so small It should not deter anyone from playing this, for those that haven't played it yet buy this bad boy.

One of my all time favorite games.

oldjadedgamer

10-05-2008, 05:47 PM

The blurriness that some folks were seeing was due to upscaling on the PS3 to 1080i/p which could be fixed by unchecking the appropriate box in the XMB.

So disabling a feature of the system is a work around?

Darkbase

10-05-2008, 05:55 PM

So disabling a feature of the system is a work around?

Same hullabaloo occurred with Assassin's Creed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvdRfUmoqQ). Turns out even the damn reviewers/experts were too stupid to check out their PS3 settings. In the display settings, you should set "RGB Full Range" from Limited to Full. It is set to Limited by default.

And that little comment in the news post about "what's in the demo is likely in retail" is BS.

DarkDaY

10-05-2008, 06:01 PM

Same hullabaloo occurred with Assassin's Creed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvdRfUmoqQ). Turns out even the damn reviewers/experts were too stupid to check out their PS3 settings. In the display settings, you should set "RGB Full Range" from Limited to Full. It is set to Limited by default.

And that little comment in the news post about "what's in the demo is likely in retail" is BS.

lol, no need to get your panties in a knot, even if the port is a tiny bit unpolished, it in no way makes the ps3 a lesser machine.
Fight the good fight.

modeps

10-05-2008, 06:02 PM

Same hullabaloo occurred with Assassin's Creed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvdRfUmoqQ). Turns out even the damn reviewers/experts were too stupid to check out their PS3 settings. In the display settings, you should set "RGB Full Range" from Limited to Full. It is set to Limited by default.

If what you're saying is true, why the hell would Sony set a default to something wouldn't display games 'properly'? Its a console, you shouldn't really have to go in and futz with display settings.

bean19

10-05-2008, 06:03 PM

I don't think this is really console war fodder. The game came out a full year ago on the 360 and you can get used copies for $20 or new copies for $40. The PS3 version is just for those people who only own a PS3 (no Xbox 360 or PC). They'll probably still sell 500K units, so it isn't an insignificant port. . . it just won't sell any consoles. And that's even if they get the graphics up to par.

DarkDaY

10-05-2008, 06:06 PM

oldjadedgamer

10-05-2008, 06:07 PM

Same hullabaloo occurred with Assassin's Creed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvdRfUmoqQ). Turns out even the damn reviewers/experts were too stupid to check out their PS3 settings. In the display settings, you should set "RGB Full Range" from Limited to Full. It is set to Limited by default

"Too stupid"? If it's so important that it be on, then why isn't it on my default? Sony must have turned it on limited for a reason. You really think the average PS3 owner is going to know this and go out of their way to go deep into the settings and change something with no explanation?

KidNicarus

10-05-2008, 06:14 PM

I figured this was being blown way out of purportion until i saw the comparison screenshot. Pretty bad. Is this really a suprise? Pretty much any Unreal 3 powered game tends to run and look a little better on the 360.

Hopefully this is something that can be fixed in a patch after the game launches. And whoever made the comment that:

"what's in the demo is likely in retail" is BS"

doesn't understand how games are made. Demo versions are typically done after a game is completed and after the gold version of the disc has been printed. It will most likely be in the retail version because the game has gone gold already and its on its way to stores. This is why for alot of titles you won't see a demo until the game has been out for a few weeks. So if you want to continue to be an ignorant fanboy, by all means.

Graphic problems aside, I can't wait to hear what people have to say who are playing this game for the first time. I gotta admit I'm a little jealous. Enjoy it.

moron

10-05-2008, 06:17 PM

So disabling a feature of the system is a work around?

It's not a feature, it's a bug (and supposedly it affects the 360 as well with some games / displays).

The problem is that instead of going with the native resolution of the game, it upscales to the maximum the target device will accept out of its local list of allowed resolutions. So if you have 1080i/p checked, the PS3 will send that instead of sticking with the native resolution of the game (720p). Upscaling isn't magic so it looks blurrier than if you stuck with the native resolution.

Cheers

fps fanatic

10-05-2008, 06:31 PM

I'm gettin' flashbacks of the whole Orange Box deal. How do some of these devs seem so "shocked" to see the PS3 version of their game not up to par with the 360 version? Do they not check in to see how things are going? No QA? How can some games like COD 4, DMC 4, Burnout: Paradise, PURE... All look amazing on both consoles. But Bioshock is coming out a year later, and it looks and runs worse? I know because I played the game on a borrowed 360 last year. Isn't UE3 finally done and optimized by Epic themselves? Last I know, UT3 ran just fine on PS3. I know DMC 4 was originally being developed on PS3 and then brought over to 360. But those other titles were developed at the same time, with great results. I can't believe 2K weren't able to get access to the latest build of UE3 and use a more up to date version of the engine. Or at least take what's been optimized for PS3 and apply it to the port of Bioshock. I don't know man. This is 2008 already yet the days of lesser ports are still here... Damn sad if you ask me.:(

Darkbase

10-05-2008, 06:56 PM

I'm gettin' flashbacks of the whole Orange Box deal.

Yeah, that port was handled by a different developer as well (EA, not Valve, just as with Bioshock here).

"Too stupid"? If it's so important that it be on, then why isn't it on my default? Sony must have turned it on limited for a reason. You really think the average PS3 owner is going to know this and go out of their way to go deep into the settings and change something with no explanation?

It takes more work and looking to figure out how to connect a headset to the PS3 than it takes to fix this setting, and I was talking about the reviewers/experts so these are obviously not "your average PS3 owner" and should have at least looked at their display settings. If this was a PC game we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation. Because it is a console, default settings are expected to remain?

And KidNicarus: I'm not an ignorant fanboy, but I don't take textures in a demo that's not even 1.5 Gigs representational of the final game, and of course these things (being demos) always include the obligatory "This demo is not a representation of final product and should not be relied upon..." etc

ElektroDragon

10-05-2008, 06:58 PM

This is what happens when you port a game from the glory of DirectX to the miasma of Linux.

sparx394

10-05-2008, 06:58 PM

might as well just port it to the wii...

Darkbase

10-05-2008, 06:59 PM

If what you're saying is true, why the hell would Sony set a default to something wouldn't display games 'properly'? Its a console, you shouldn't really have to go in and futz with display settings.

Couldn't tell you, all I know is that changing this setting is for the better.
Consoles are becoming more and more like PCs these days. That has it's pros and cons. Hell, there's a thread around here discussing the advantages and possible disadvantages of upgrading the PS3 HDD to a 5400RPM or 7200RPM drive.

RMan

10-05-2008, 07:03 PM

Doesn't look like upscale artifacts to me, what it looks like is a differed rendering artifact, which would be fixable in a patch. I only looked at the statue pic with the red banner, but if you look at the harsh lighting on the left hand side, you can see that on the 360 pic, the lines are clear, but on ps3, they are blurred, but on the geometry as well as the texture, and featuring none of the stair stepping effects of up-sampling. This strongly suggests they are simply not turning off bilinear filtering on the final pass (for techies who care) and it’s reading a value between pixels, essentially.

In the end, it's a bit of a wash, since it knocks down pixel contrast, making bumpy textures look more washed out, but that has a positive impact on polygon edges and some textures when moving. It's possible this was done on purpose.

jeffbax

10-05-2008, 07:46 PM

This is what happens when you port a game from the glory of DirectX to the miasma of Linux.

PS3 doesn't run Linux, so I don't see what your point is.

Unreal 3 games suffering on PS3 isn't exactly news. I haven't played the demo yet myself, but if this is how the game ships thats pretty bad on 2k's part. I'll see how it looks tomorrow as I've beaten it on the 360 3x now.

Haven't heard of the RGB thing... I think my PS3 was set to full by default.

WileE.Coyte

10-05-2008, 08:09 PM

Yeti2005

10-05-2008, 08:15 PM

Same hullabaloo occurred with Assassin's Creed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvdRfUmoqQ). Turns out even the damn reviewers/experts were too stupid to check out their PS3 settings. In the display settings, you should set "RGB Full Range" from Limited to Full. It is set to Limited by default.

And that little comment in the news post about "what's in the demo is likely in retail" is BS.

Actually that's not true. RGB Full is not necessarily better. There's an interesting forum discussion at AVSForum if you're interested.

In the end, I'm sure the PS3 version will be just as fun as the 360 and PC version.

Snarboo

10-05-2008, 08:25 PM

In the end, I'm sure the PS3 version will be just as fun as the 360 and PC version. While it's a shame that the PS3 version doesn't quite match the 360's, this is very true.

Mathilda

10-05-2008, 08:39 PM

wow xbot's get really horny when it comes to this kind of stuff. what the hell do you care? you aren't gonna play it anyway, you don't have a playstation anyway.

now go back to drooling over gears of war 2.

saulob

10-05-2008, 08:42 PM

I keep me asking, how they can slip a error on the model of the biggest char on the game. This char is THE char from the game... Big Daddy.

Amazing.

jeffbax

10-05-2008, 08:45 PM

Supposedly the demo is from an earlier build of the game. We've yet to see the final version.

92miata

10-05-2008, 09:44 PM

hey.....

if i buy a ps3, it does indeed include a hdmi cable to connect to my hdtv so i get the best res.....

yikes, gotta go.....

what a joke this all is.

violentp

10-05-2008, 10:14 PM

I should probably keep clear of this thread but here's my take.

Both the 360 and PS3 versions are inferior to the PC version
If you let minor imperfections prevent you from playing a game, you are not mature enough to play games in the first place
Bioshock is such a fantastic game that if your only option were to play it on a vacuum cleaner, shut up and do it.

And I'm gone.

Wyrm

10-05-2008, 11:08 PM

DarkDaY

10-05-2008, 11:24 PM

/end thread

Seriously, you can lock it now.

seconded.______________________

Darkbase

10-05-2008, 11:24 PM

Bioshock is such a fantastic game that if your only option were to play it on a vacuum cleaner, shut up and do it.

But that would su-

I kid, I kid. In all seriousness, I kind of figured these were already known facts.

Wyrm

10-05-2008, 11:36 PM

But that would su-

I lol'd, kudos.

ElektroDragon

10-06-2008, 12:13 AM

PS3 doesn't run Linux, so I don't see what your point is.

Unreal 3 games suffering on PS3 isn't exactly news. I haven't played the demo yet myself, but if this is how the game ships thats pretty bad on 2k's part. I'll see how it looks tomorrow as I've beaten it on the 360 3x now.

Haven't heard of the RGB thing... I think my PS3 was set to full by default.

PS3 doesn't run Linux? You're telling me the UMB and interface and underlying OS are NOT Linux kernel based then? How do you know this? What the heck are they then, 100% custom Sony? Because they sure fudge aren't Windows CE!

Scramble

10-06-2008, 12:32 AM

PS3 doesn't run Linux? You're telling me the UMB and interface and underlying OS are NOT Linux kernel based then? How do you know this? What the heck are they then, 100% custom Sony? Because they sure fudge aren't Windows CE!

What the hell's a UMB?

I'm downloading this demo cause it's always fun, and I'll check out the graphics in motion. Judging by past UE3 experiences (Jericho *shudder*) It probably won't look as good as the 360 version, but I've got the full game on PC so it doesn't matter :o

ElektroDragon

10-06-2008, 01:34 AM

What the hell's a UMB?

I'm downloading this demo cause it's always fun, and I'll check out the graphics in motion. Judging by past UE3 experiences (Jericho *shudder*) It probably won't look as good as the 360 version, but I've got the full game on PC so it doesn't matter :o

Sorry, I meant XMB obviously. Too many acronyms.

QueQueg

10-06-2008, 07:01 AM

PS3 doesn't run Linux? You're telling me the UMB and interface and underlying OS are NOT Linux kernel based then? How do you know this? What the heck are they then, 100% custom Sony? Because they sure fudge aren't Windows CE!

It's not like the XMB is anywhere near a full OS. Why would it be surprising that it's 100% Sony code?

Anecdotal evidence: How long does a linux machine take to boot? A minute or two? How long does the XMB take to boot? No time, that's how much. If it was booting a linux kernel, it wouldn't be so fast to come up.

My $.02

Demo_Boy

10-06-2008, 07:11 AM

A day late and a dollar short

ElfShotTheFood

10-06-2008, 07:46 AM

This is living.

modeps

10-06-2008, 08:06 AM

Anecdotal evidence: How long does a linux machine take to boot? A minute or two? How long does the XMB take to boot? No time, that's how much. If it was booting a linux kernel, it wouldn't be so fast to come up.

That's a pretty ridiculous piece of evidence. :)

DangerousDaze

10-06-2008, 09:04 AM

I would suspect that the PS3 runs a fatter variant of the same firmware that comes on the PSP. A lot of the features are similar (not just the GUI but the network support, browser etc.) and it would be cheaper to maintain a single source with two branches rather than two completely separate OS's.

elvisizer

10-06-2008, 09:24 AM

In the display settings, you should set "RGB Full Range" from Limited to Full. It is set to Limited by default.

the correct RGB level setting depends on the display that you're using. Full should be used with computer monitors. Limited should be used with TV's. Neither setting is always correct for everyone- you have to use the correct one for your display.
Also, black levels have nothing to do with blocky texture rendering like we're seeing in the demo.

QueQueg

10-06-2008, 09:26 AM

That's a pretty ridiculous piece of evidence. :)

Ridiculous? How so?

DangerousDaze

10-06-2008, 09:38 AM

Ridiculous? How so?

My SLUG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSLU2) boots up in a few seconds but its a Linux device. You can't really correlate the two.

QueQueg

10-06-2008, 10:06 AM

My SLUG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSLU2) boots up in a few seconds but its a Linux device. You can't really correlate the two.

Fair enough. I did say it was anecdotal.

donkeydrop

10-07-2008, 12:26 PM

If what you're saying is true, why the hell would Sony set a default to something wouldn't display games 'properly'? Its a console, you shouldn't really have to go in and futz with display settings.

It's that way because (a) it was a feature added after launch, (b) it will improve the image for most but not all TVs. Some, it could even make the image worse.

You sound like someone who buys a TV and then thinks that all you have to do is just plug it in. Well, it works, but if you want the best picture you have to learn what all the settings do, and how to calibrate it properly. No reason a console would be any different since it has to connect to that same TV. And no reason everyone else should have a gimped console because some people dont want to bother configuring it properly.

donkeydrop

10-07-2008, 01:14 PM

Full should be used with computer monitors. Limited should be used with TV's. Neither setting is always correct for everyone- you have to use the correct one for your display.

That's not really correct; it might have been right 10 years ago, but not now. All modern TVs can handle Full Range since that's the standard in many parts of the world.

Technically, Limited is using a IRE 7.5 (DVI-Video 16 to 235) signal whereas with Full they are using IRE 0 (DVI-PC 0 to 255). Where it starts to get complicated is that US and Japan use different standards; in the US "Black" is defined as 7.5 IRE, but in Japan "Black" is 0 IRE. To get the best picture you need to make sure that you calibrate your TV properly according to the source, so if you switch between an IRE 0 source (e.g. a PS3 set to Full Range) and an IRE 7.5 source (e.g. typical cable box in the US) then theoretically you would not get the best picture without recalibrating.

But, since you can calibrate each digital input (HDMI/DVI) separately this is not really an issue unless you connect multiple devices to the same input.

Bottom line: if you have a modern HDTV with HDMI/DVI connector, set your PS3 to full range.

elvisizer

10-07-2008, 02:05 PM

donkeydrop, that's absolutely not true. 99.9% of tv's expect black to be 7.5 IRE. Otherwise, how are you going to send superwhite and blacker-than-black signals? The only input on a TV that will avoid crushing blacks with the ps3 set to RGB full would be a PC input. Lots of TV's have them, but genereally they're using a VGA connector. If you're using HDMI or component, you should check your specs, but generally you'll find that limited is the correct setting.
Bottomline- unless you know for SURE that your TV is expecting black to be 0 IRE on component or HDMI, use limited on the PS3. Otherwise, you'll be crushing black.

elvisizer

10-07-2008, 02:10 PM

also, it's a fact that the PS3 will not send blacker-than-black or superwhite if the RGB level is set to Full. that alone is reason enough to ALWAYS calibrate for limited with the PS3.

Micasa

10-07-2008, 03:15 PM

Macabee

10-07-2008, 03:29 PM

It's not a feature, it's a bug (and supposedly it affects the 360 as well with some games / displays).

The problem is that instead of going with the native resolution of the game, it upscales to the maximum the target device will accept out of its local list of allowed resolutions. So if you have 1080i/p checked, the PS3 will send that instead of sticking with the native resolution of the game (720p). Upscaling isn't magic so it looks blurrier than if you stuck with the native resolution.

Cheers
Actually, much to my annoyance, all of the 1080 games on the PS3 seem to default to 720p if that's an option available in display settings. In order to play at 1080 I've had to disable 720p as an option (in both GTA and GT:P) and re-enable it for Uncharted, Rock Band, and the other 720p-only games. Very annoying, that, and I wish Sony would patch the PS3 to run games at the MAXIMUM possible rez. I have a 1080p TV for a reason, dammit...

MORGiON

10-07-2008, 08:42 PM

I'm willing to bet that many people setting their PS3 to full range have a TV that won't accept it. I'm also willing to take a side bet that a large percentage of that group believes the picture is better with it set to full.

Spot on.

Here is a post from dallow on the avs forum, for those interested in testing their tv.

Here's a test for people to see whether or not their display supports the new full range option or not.

First, save this image, and put it on a memory card or something so that you can view it on the PS3:

http://sr-388.net/images/patterns/Brightness.jpg

With the option set to limited, adjust the brightness control on your TV until you can see most/all of the boxes. There are 12 boxes there, but you might not be able to see them all. You should hopefully be able to see at least 9/10 of them.

Now switch it over to Full range. Can you still see all the boxes? It's very likely that you will only see a full black screen now if you're using a HDTV rather than a DVI monitor.

If you can turn up the brightness control and see the same number of boxes again, then it seems your display does support the full range. If it stays black, or you can't see as many boxes as before, your TV does not support the full range option and you should be using limited.

Most HDTVs should have it set to limited.