New Duke Nukem Forever Screenshots

[Evil Avatar]

Pulled from the Bonus Content on the Xbox Live Arcade version of Duke Nukem 3D, Shacknews has posted two new screenshots (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54940) from, Duke Nukem Forever.

[Dirty Harry]

Hahaha, Most obscure way of doing a thing in the history of thangs.

[PathMaster]

I saw the original KRZR youtube video. They looked new, but were hard to see clearly.

[Emabulator]

Anybody remember a site called DukeWorld.com? I did not think so. ;)

That used to be my pet project when I worked for a guy that had a ton of fansites. Back in the good old days before there were weblogs and the internet bubble burst. ;)

I've been waiting in the wings ready to start another Duke site. Go ahead and laugh... It will be the best site evar!!!!

P.S. If your name is mattcake I could use your help. :D

[Yeti2005]

Does anyone care about Duke Nukem Forever anymore? I mean there's probably more than a few people who follow DNF news just because they're curious about how bad the game will be.

[LongStepMantis]

Does anyone care about Duke Nukem Forever anymore? I mean there's probably more than a few people who follow DNF news just because they're curious about how bad the game will be.

Assuming that it does indeed exist, somewhere, in some form...the biggest problem is that the hype is legendary by this point. We're talking Daikatana time infinity.

The game would have the be the second coming of Jesus in video game form to overcome that. If it's the best FPS ever, it might have a chance. Any less than that and the internet hate machine will chew it up and spit it out.

[Varsity]

Thank the gods, it doesn't look like Doom 3 any more!

[MasterEvilAce]

Does anyone care about Duke Nukem Forever anymore? I mean there's probably more than a few people who follow DNF news just because they're curious about how bad the game will be.

I take offense to this. I definitely love the Duke series. When I was younger it was my most played game. I tried playing it last night with my old friend but he has vista so we couldn't play together.

Let's put it this way. Even in the 98 or 01 trailers... if that Duke was released today I'd STILL play it. That looked fun.

So yes, I care about DNF. I don't care that everyone else hates it. I want to see what 3DR can give us.

[Scaryfaced]

Well....at least that's proof that they're making an actual game. Unless these are just mock ups just to fool us! What a clever ruse.

[bKangy]

It took them how long to do that?!

[lost]

At least it's quite pretty...in a probably CGI way.

[TrackZero]

Ugh, fuck DNF.

[jeffbax]

I'm going to buy this game. I just have to, should it ever release. I'm compelled for reasons beyond comprehension.

[Scaryfaced]

Oh, I'll be buying DNF. Day one, most likely. I also look forward to more posts about it, the less content, the better.

[Rogue_hunter]

I'm going to buy this game. I just have to, should it ever release. I'm compelled for reasons beyond comprehension.

Same here, but I just don't want to hear anything about it until it's actually in stores for sale. Can we put a moratorium on DNF news until then?

[Shodan2020]

Ugh, fuck DNF.

I'm with ya, Tracky. However, I still like Duke3d. :)

[carnage11]

It took them how long to do that?!

That's exactly why it will bomb. It's taken so long at this point it should be the best game in the history of games. We all know it won't be. Even if it's a pretty good game, it's not going to live up to the hype nor will it be as good as a game that's taken over 10 years to develop should be.

[divinechaos]

See... I had never played Duke Nukem until the XBLA version came out and if the new one ends up being a third of what I've played I'd still buy it. I love it.

[Paranoia]

Ugh, fuck DNF.

I second that.

[Dirty Harry]

a big Fuck you!, to Duke haters, suck a fat pipebomb.

[JazGalaxy]

Does anyone care about Duke Nukem Forever anymore? I mean there's probably more than a few people who follow DNF news just because they're curious about how bad the game will be.

I absolutely care about DNF.

See, there's this assanine idea out there that videogames "evolve" and that each game is somehow better than the next. That's a lie. The truth is that new games just copy successfull games, and oftentimes trails are created. When Duke came out, it was was the last in a line of Doom clones and it came out concurrently with Quake. New games, mostly, chose to copy Quake until Half Life came out at which point ALL games copied Half Life.

I'm interested in Duke 4 to pick up Duke 3D torch and get us away from this annoying FPS is really a first person movie nonsense. Duke was all about environmental interactivity, and if they can do that again, they will be instantly relevant. No other game has achieved that level of interaction, and ever since Battlefield, it's all been about how many players you can cram into a level.

[carnage11]

Man, Duke3D was such a bad ass game back in the day. I remember playing it from beginning to end over and over again. Such good memories.

[Telefrog]

The XBLA version of Duke3D is pretty good, but everything I've seen of Forever so far looks horrendous.

[Dirty Harry]

The XBLA version of Duke3D is pretty good, but everything I've seen of Forever so far looks horrendous.

Its not as good as some of the ports on pc that give high res textures to everything, 3d game models and the such.

[Shodan2020]

a big Fuck you!, to Duke haters, suck a fat pipebomb.

I don't hate Duke, I just hate DNF. That goddamn game should have been out half a decade ago.

[Paranoia]

I don't hate Duke, I just hate DNF. That goddamn game should have been out half a decade ago.

Hate 3DRealms/George B. for how they miserably failed at managing game development.

[JazGalaxy]

Hate 3DRealms/George B. for how they miserably failed at managing game development.

Or... stop being such horrible people and play game to enjoy them not to whine about them. When Duke 4 comes out, love it if it's fun and hate it if it's not. Until that time, how in the world is it somehow hurting you?

[Paranoia]

Or... stop being such horrible people and play game to enjoy them not to whine about them. When Duke 4 comes out, love it if it's fun and hate it if it's not. Until that time, how in the world is it somehow hurting you?

How in the world you are defending them?

[MasterEvilAce]

Because they don't owe us anything, maybe?

We don't HAVE to buy anything from them....

[Trickyicky]

Does anyone care about Duke Nukem Forever anymore? I mean there's probably more than a few people who follow DNF news just because they're curious about how bad the game will be.

If not for the recent awesome DN3D release on Live Arcade, I wouldn't care at all. The nostalgia for how awesome it is kind of increases my interest; enough that I'll give it more than just a light chuckle anytime there's news on the game.

[DingBat]

Because they don't owe us anything, maybe?

We don't HAVE to buy anything from them....

Um, yeah. They're exercising their right NOT to buy the game. They're also exercising their right to hate the game as well, but I don't see anything in the fine print prohibiting that either.

[SuperMonkeyFighter2]

Is Duke on XBLA the first non DOS title 3DR has ever made?

[TrackZero]

Or... stop being such horrible people and play game to enjoy them not to whine about them. When Duke 4 comes out, love it if it's fun and hate it if it's not. Until that time, how in the world is it somehow hurting you?

Because I've had to waste time reading about it in the news for over 10 goddamn years. It's called burnout.

[Scaryfaced]

Because I've had to waste time reading about it in the news for over 10 goddamn years. It's called burnout.

I don't get why people blame companies for the stories game sites and magazines like to run. 3D Realms releases stuff rarely and the only "official" news comes in the form of random forum replies and leaked screenshots. I don't see that as hyping your game. If anything, your doing the opposite. All the hype that's surrounded this game since it's last implosion and restart have been a constant stream of "Where's Duke?" non news posts. If sites would stop putting DNF at the top of every Where are they now filler article, there wouldn't be much hype to speak of.

[TrackZero]

I don't get why people blame companies for the stories game sites and magazines like to run. 3D Realms releases stuff rarely and the only "official" news comes in the form of random forum replies and leaked screenshots. I don't see that as hyping your game. If anything, your doing the opposite. All the hype that's surrounded this game since it's last implosion and restart have been a constant stream of "Where's Duke?" non news posts. If sites would stop putting DNF at the top of every Where are they now filler article, there wouldn't be much hype to speak of.

Funny, Valve didn't have any issue with TF2 during it's years in development silence. Don't make excuses for 3DR.

[Qoz]

That's exactly why it will bomb. It's taken so long at this point it should be the best game in the history of games. We all know it won't be. Even if it's a pretty good game, it's not going to live up to the hype nor will it be as good as a game that's taken over 10 years to develop should be.

This just shows that you know NOTHING of how games sell.
How is the hype influencing the game sales in a negative way? IT IS NOT!

History has shown, that bad games sell poorly, and good games always sell well.
When the game is released it will sell if it is good and people will forget everything when some nice screenshots are released. It does NOT have to be the best shooter in the universe either to sell alot of copies.

So you mix things up and get to wild conclusions. I agree that the game would have to be good from a developers perspective to justify the long process, but thats does not influence people top stop buying if it's good. Customers (including me) don't really care how long it took. Like I don't care how long it took to make a movie if I'm going to the Cinema - it doesn't matter!

The only thing DukeNukemForever could fear, is being mediocre or worse and recieving alot of bad press and being ridiculed. Even then the game would probably sell more than justified, because of the hype.

Remember Daikatana? Some compare this game to DNF, but that game did EVERYTHING wrong. The game was a huge mess, and the reviews were actually far better than justified by the product (even though it had some negative hype). And it didn't sell because (surprise!) it sucked.

I think the screenshots look really good actually.

[vallor]

Besides the obvious, I'm betting that the first joke on the consumer is that there will be less than 1 hour of gameplay per year in development.

10 years better rate some Final Fantasy style hours, none of this 6 - 8 hour stuff people have been releasing in this genre for the last few years!

[Qoz]

Um, yeah. They're exercising their right NOT to buy the game. They're also exercising their right to hate the game as well, but I don't see anything in the fine print prohibiting that either.

When the game is out, and if the reviews are positive, then all the stupid haters will buy the game anyway. Well - I guess they will pirate it and only buy it, if multiplayer is fun.

But I can guarantee you, that if the game is good people WILL play it. I'm just sad for peolpe having such issues with a product only because of the development time. It will ruin the experience, when it's released.

I've said it before - we should support 3Drealms!
Why?
Because they are not releasing games they know are crap. They failed miserably at game management, but who cares about that? We only care about good games, and they actually keep on working on the game, until they are satisfied. They could have released a DNF from the 2001 tech-base, but they knew the product would not match their expectations. Like Valve created a TF2 prototype with the commander commandeering the trops, but they found it had many problems and scrapped the idead completely. They do not release broken products, like EA and other companies. 3Drealms could learn alot about project management, but they set out to produce a unique game (positive or negative) to gives us something different.

I respect them for trying to fulfill their vision.
We don't know it will be good, but there is actually a chance it will.
If it doesn't pan out, then they at least tried and I can't really get pissed off about how long it took.

[vallor]

I've said it before - we should support 3Drealms!
Why?
Because they are not releasing games they know are crap. They failed miserably at game management, but who cares about that? We only care about good games, and they actually keep on working on the game, until they are satisfied. They could have released a DNF from the 2001 tech-base, but they knew the product would not match their expectations.

A decent point.

However, the inability to master technology that has fueled hundreds of games across all genres since D4E started (Q1 engine, Q2 engine, unreal 1 engine, etc) typically points to a dev house staffed with a bunch of novices who can't get the tech to do what it needs to do.

I think it fair to extrapolate that if they hire novice or unskilled programmers and it is clear that their project management team is filled with people unable to do their job properly, than why should we expect their game design or art or any of their other departments to be any differently staffed?

I will not be buying Duke, I don't even know how one game of only better than averge quality engenders this level of loyalty to 3DR 15 years after the fact. Sort of like blind adoration of someones alma mater is the bestest ever I guess. Despite all evidence to the contrary they'll have overwhelming support anything that team does.

Anyway, some boob in my team will buy it and we'll all play it. I envision a MSK3000 sort of atmosphere with one guy sitting on the couch controlling the game and 15 guys standing behind the couch making wise cracks about what is happening on screen.

[LilAbner]

Fuck You George Broussard.

[Teh Super King]

The screenshots look all right, would like to see DNF get finished at some point. I mean the game is only six years younger than me...

[Shodan2020]

Because they don't owe us anything, maybe?

We don't HAVE to buy anything from them....

We don't owe them anything either.

[Paranoia]

When the game is out, and if the reviews are positive, then all the stupid haters will buy the game anyway. Well - I guess they will pirate it and only buy it, if multiplayer is fun.

But I can guarantee you, that if the game is good people WILL play it. I'm just sad for peolpe having such issues with a product only because of the development time. It will ruin the experience, when it's released.

I've said it before - we should support 3Drealms!
Why?
Because they are not releasing games they know are crap. They failed miserably at game management, but who cares about that? We only care about good games, and they actually keep on working on the game, until they are satisfied. They could have released a DNF from the 2001 tech-base, but they knew the product would not match their expectations. Like Valve created a TF2 prototype with the commander commandeering the trops, but they found it had many problems and scrapped the idead completely. They do not release broken products, like EA and other companies. 3Drealms could learn alot about project management, but they set out to produce a unique game (positive or negative) to gives us something different.

I respect them for trying to fulfill their vision.
We don't know it will be good, but there is actually a chance it will.
If it doesn't pan out, then they at least tried and I can't really get pissed off about how long it took.

George, is that you?

[Qoz]

lol.. I'm not George.
I'm just a guy who is surprised at how many people seem to love hating 3Drealms. I would not be surprised at how many would be indifferent, but everytime 3drealms is the subject, people will go out of their way to post on messageboards that they do not care! Totally pathetic.

It is just not logical to hate them so, if you are a fan of having independent studios make something unique without publishers telling them to ship all the time. Sure they made mistake and so what?

It so personal and stupid that I just can't understand it.
Like the guy writing "fuck you George B." - I mean it's a computer game for christ sake! It's "they stole my job and raped my girlfriend"-kinda anger.
Scary.

Still, if it's good these whiners will play it anyway.
It's sadly become hip to hate stuff.
Why not judge the PRODUCT when it's actually out?

[Qoz]

A decent point.

I think it fair to extrapolate that if they hire novice or unskilled programmers and it is clear that their project management team is filled with people unable to do their job properly, than why should we expect their game design or art or any of their other departments to be any differently staffed?

I will not be buying Duke, I don't even know how one game of only better than averge quality engenders this level of loyalty to 3DR 15 years after the fact. Sort of like blind adoration of someones alma mater is the bestest ever I guess. Despite all evidence to the contrary they'll have overwhelming support anything that team does.

You make some good points.
But remember - the game has not come out yet. I don't understand how you would decide already to not buy, when you don't know the quality of the game. What if it was truly great? Would you then not buy, because you had some thoughts about them not being able to deliver? Well, if they DO deliver then whats the problem?

Judge the game when it's out.

But your point is good - perhaps it's an indication of a product not being optimal tech-wise, but it's only a logical point that raise some concern. It is hardly an argument to start hating them and deciding to not buy the product even if it turns out good.

[Qoz]

I will not be buying Duke, I don't even know how one game of only better than averge quality engenders this level of loyalty to 3DR 15 years after the fact. Sort of like blind adoration of someones alma mater is the bestest ever I guess. Despite all evidence to the contrary they'll have overwhelming support anything that team does.
I'm not loyal AT ALL.
I buy games that are good when they ship. period.

I enjoyed Duke3D alot and people seem to enjoy it on XBLA also.
I saw it did really well, and they made several improvements to make it even better than the original. Still - if DNF get lousy reviews then I won't buy it.

[JazGalaxy]

A decent point.

However, the inability to master technology that has fueled hundreds of games across all genres since D4E started (Q1 engine, Q2 engine, unreal 1 engine, etc) typically points to a dev house staffed with a bunch of novices who can't get the tech to do what it needs to do.

I think it fair to extrapolate that if they hire novice or unskilled programmers and it is clear that their project management team is filled with people unable to do their job properly, than why should we expect their game design or art or any of their other departments to be any differently staffed?

I will not be buying Duke, I don't even know how one game of only better than averge quality engenders this level of loyalty to 3DR 15 years after the fact. Sort of like blind adoration of someones alma mater is the bestest ever I guess. Despite all evidence to the contrary they'll have overwhelming support anything that team does.

Anyway, some boob in my team will buy it and we'll all play it. I envision a MSK3000 sort of atmosphere with one guy sitting on the couch controlling the game and 15 guys standing behind the couch making wise cracks about what is happening on screen.

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. You've decided you're not going to buy DN4 before it's even out? You're telling me if this game gets perfect scores and rave reviews, you are not going to buy it? Because of some sort of game buying ethics or something? That, I think, is when gaming as hobby has gone way to far and turned into your religion or something.

As for Team Fortress 2, does anybody remember when that game was supposed to be a millitary game with real time voice syncing to the lips on the character models? It was easlily JUST as mispromoted as DN4 has been, but when it was released everyone forgot or didn't care about it's development history.

[TrackZero]

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. You've decided you're not going to buy DN4 before it's even out? You're telling me if this game gets perfect scores and rave reviews, you are not going to buy it? Because of some sort of game buying ethics or something? That, I think, is when gaming as hobby has gone way to far and turned into your religion or something.

Actually yes, that's what I'd say. Just because a game ranks and scores well doesn't mean you're going to like it (I can respect Forza 2 kicks ass, but it's not for me as an example). Due to me no longer caring for the IP, DNF can score 10/10 and I'm still not buying it. There's no need for ethics or high minded bullshit. I hate hearing about this game, I have zero interest in playing this game, the end.

As for Team Fortress 2, does anybody remember when that game was supposed to be a millitary game with real time voice syncing to the lips on the character models?

No shit, that's why I brought it up champ. Glad to see you're playing catch up.

It was easlily JUST as mispromoted as DN4 has been, but when it was released everyone forgot or didn't care about it's development history.

Wrong, in fact when they started having issues they cut off all communications about the game and it went into a black hole until the day they actually decided they were going to be releasing it, for real (standard time to promote before release). Which is why I used it as an example. Thanks for getting the entire thing ass backwards. *golf clap*

/ignore JazGalaxy

[jeffbax]

Besides the obvious, I'm betting that the first joke on the consumer is that there will be less than 1 hour of gameplay per year in development.

10 years better rate some Final Fantasy style hours, none of this 6 - 8 hour stuff people have been releasing in this genre for the last few years!

More time commitment != better game.

[jeffbax]

Also, I think the notion of condemning 3D Realms is retarded. Aside from probably a lot of programmer turnover and tech switching, they don't owe anything to you. Its their choice to take a billion years for Duke 4, and that is their choice. What the fuck is the point of saying you won't buy something simply because it takes a long time?

It may just be extremely awesome, and hopefully faithful and tongue-in-cheek to everything which made use give a shit about Duke in the first place.

[TrackZero]

Also, I think the notion of condemning 3D Realms is retarded. Aside from probably a lot of programmer turnover and tech switching, they don't owe anything to you. Its their choice to take a billion years for Duke 4, and that is their choice. What the fuck is the point of saying you won't buy something simply because it takes a long time?

It may just be extremely awesome, and hopefully faithful and tongue-in-cheek to everything which made use give a shit about Duke in the first place.

jeff, we already addressed every single point you just brought up here. Go re-read the thread.

[Sl1pstream]

Because they don't owe us anything, maybe?

If George "big fuck you" Broussard kept his mouth shut over the past ten years, you would've been right. Instead of shutting the fuck up and working on the game, he's been talking shit about almost every other developer out there, even though those developers have delivered at least something in the past ten years.

If DNF ever gets released and isn't the greatest game ever, I say we get to lynch George Broussard.

[Scaryfaced]

jeff, we already addressed every single point you just brought up here. Go re-read the thread.

Your just pissy about the Duke topic in general, aren't you? Did he pee in your cereal as a child or something?

Your not interested in Duke, we get it. Congrats? I, along with many others, look forward to seeing why DNF is taking so god damn long. If you want to spill your vitrol on every DNF post from here to release, that's your choice. Just don't expect them to stop coming. It's still gaming news, whether you've got some firery hatred for the product or not.

I don't see the difference between TF2's development and 3DRealms, but apparently they're completely different to you. What makes 3DR so hate worthy? Is it the 2 screenshots their staff has leaked over the course of 6 years? Or maybe that teaser video they threw together a few months ago? Duke is hyped because it's the friggin Big Foot of video games. 3DRealms has had little, if nothing to do with it.

[Sl1pstream]

've said it before - we should support 3Drealms!
Why?
Because they are not releasing games they know are crap. They failed miserably at game management, but who cares about that? We only care about good games, and they actually keep on working on the game, until they are satisfied.

Conclusion: They forgot how to make a good game?

Really, if it takes you ten years to make a sequel to a game filled with cliches and stolen one-liners, you have a problem.

The thing is, at this point there's absolutely no sign of the game turning out good. All of their previous games are DOS-based titles so it's been a while since they've released something. They just keep delaying the game with every new engine without showing more than a few screenshots to "prove" that they've actually did something in those 2-4 years between engine changes.

I really don't see why anyone should still have faith in this game. Yes, Duke 3D was fun and so was Shadow Warrior, but so much has been released since and all 3DR has done throughout the years is hype their non-existant "game" in interviews.

I really don't see why this still gets frontpage. There's nothing to discuss here. Those don't even look like in-game screenshots, they're probably from some cutscene.

[Sl1pstream]

I don't see the difference between TF2's development and 3DRealms, but apparently they're completely different to you.

Really? REALLY?

Team Fortress 1 AND 2 have come out while DNF is still in development. If you don't see the difference there, there's something seriously wrong with you.

[tombofsoldier]

Big alien and Strippers, that looks like Duke alright.

If the game is good I predict people will buy and enjoy it. Or is that to amazing a concept to grasp?

[jeffbax]

TF1 is older than DNF, unless DNF development started in 1996...

[Dukefrukem]

Assuming that it does indeed exist, somewhere, in some form...the biggest problem is that the hype is legendary by this point. We're talking Daikatana time infinity.

The game would have the be the second coming of Jesus in video game form to overcome that. If it's the best FPS ever, it might have a chance. Any less than that and the internet hate machine will chew it up and spit it out.

Theres gameplay videos out there.

[Disgustipated]

Is Duke on XBLA the first non DOS title 3DR has ever made?

No, they made Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project, and had a hand in the Max Payne series and Prey.

[Scaryfaced]

Really? REALLY?

Team Fortress 1 AND 2 have come out while DNF is still in development. If you don't see the difference there, there's something seriously wrong with you.

They've released. That's all you can come up with? Well no shit, Sherlock. I'm talking about development cycles. TF2 had to be scrapped several times, usually after massive press of each build, then went all hush hush when they finally decided on their current look. I've still got multiple magazines with 10 pages spreads of the different versions of TF2 over the years, just like I've got ones for DNF. It's been the same development arch, Valve just does it much better.

Not to mention that TF1 was a free mod that Valve bought, then updated for themselves. It's also a multiplayer game, which are far easier to put together than a full single player experience. But the length of development doesn't matter to me. It has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make. I'm talking about the hype surrounding this game, which I feel is entirely fabricated by silly no news posts such as these.

I'll agree with you the George needs to shut the fuck up until DNF is done. He runs his mouth far too much for a guy who hasn't produced anything in a decade. However, I don't discount the product entirely because their boss can't keep his damn mouth shut.

Basically, I'm saying all the hype and subsiquent hate that it induces is fabricated by articles exactly like this one. People obsess about DNF and talk about it constantly. I don't feel like that should be 3DRealms' fault.

[Dirty Harry]

No, they made Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project, and had a hand in the Max Payne series and Prey.

They produced for the max games, and at first created a few versions of prey only to hand it to another studio to produce, but they had a bigger hand in prey than they did with max being they created the series/characters/gameplay mechanics.

[MasterEvilAce]

They produced for the max games, and at first created a few versions of prey only to hand it to another studio to produce, but they had a bigger hand in prey than they did with max being they created the series/characters/gameplay mechanics.

Correct. 3DR basically has been producing games, not developing or creating.

[JDMig]

Assuming that it does indeed exist, somewhere, in some form...the biggest problem is that the hype is legendary by this point. We're talking Daikatana time infinity.

The game would have the be the second coming of Jesus in video game form to overcome that. If it's the best FPS ever, it might have a chance. Any less than that and the internet hate machine will chew it up and spit it out.

What strange logic compelled you to his ridiculous conclusion? The only thing the game need do upon release is be worth the $50 price of admission. An 8.0 game can do that.

When it comes to buying this game, if it's a fun game but not "teh greatest game evar", who's going to say "well, that's nor worth my time to check out"?

If it's an 8.0 game it will be a successful as a video game. Considering the amount of time 3D Realms has spent on the game, it might not be considered a successful "project", for 3D Realms, if it becomes an 8.0 game, but that has nothing to do with being a successful game on it's own accord, worthy of people's time any money.

Honestly, some people here act like in the time it's been since announced, the entire gaming industry has been halted at a standstill while we wait for this game, as if there's been nothing else to do or other games to buy since it was announced.

It's dissapointing as hell for Duke fans, sure, but somehow life has seemed to go on (and I might add some good Duke games, offshoots but good nonetheless, did come out such as the oft-overlooked Duke Nukem: Zero Hour for the N64, but yes I know, that's a long time ago too).

Also I'd like to point out that anyone who thinks they've been actually coding the game for 10 years straight is naive about how games are made and game developers. They've said yeah they've ridiculously screwed things up, but not just because of the constant re-dos, one can assume lots of the time wasn't spent working on the game at all, and other time as we know has been working on projects such as Prey. Any stalled indy developer with plans to work on a game since highschool can tell you about all the things that get in the way over the years.

Also to close, as Myamoto has said (roughly): A bad game delayed, can eventually be turned into a good game, while a bad game released is a bad game forever.

Personally I'll wait.

[Sl1pstream]

Also to close, as Myamoto has said (roughly): A bad game delayed, can eventually be turned into a good game, while a bad game released is a bad game forever.

Personally I'll wait.

Pfft, what does Nintendo know about releasing good games. They're doomed (http://nintendo-revolution.blogspot.com/2006/01/3d-realms-gloomy-about-nintendos.html) anyway.

[SuperMonkeyFighter2]

Correct. 3DR basically has been producing games, not developing or creating.

Exactly. Also, it's not like 3DR "produced" these titles alone. Max Payne was done with Gathering and Rockstar while Prey was done with 2K. All of those studios had producers assigned to those projects. So how much of the gameplay and production ideas were 3DR and how much belonged to the dev studio and partner producers?

Who's to know? My point being is that 3DR has not made a game by themselves in a long, long time. I'm talking about NO programming or production help. I'm talking about creating a game in an environment besides DOS.

Honestly, unless proven otherwise, I think Peter Moore's comments about Rare apply to 3DR. They are having issues adapting to today's standards of gaming ... otherwise their game would have been out a long, long time ago.

Other stuff: 3DR really does need to shut their mouths. They openly critcize other dev's titles, slam their publishers, talk about what other people "should do" all too often (Criticizing Take 2 as to why Max Payne was not a launch game on 360), try to tell others how to "properly" market and launch characters, etc.

So does this mean they cannot make a good game? Does it mean that duke will suck? Maybe not. What it does mean is that I for one will not support these people.

[JDMig]

Other stuff: 3DR really does need to shut their mouths. They openly critcize other dev's titles, slam their publishers, talk about what other people "should do" all too often (Criticizing Take 2 as to why Max Payne was not a launch game on 360), try to tell others how to "properly" market and launch characters, etc.

So does this mean they cannot make a good game? Does it mean that duke will suck? Maybe not. What it does mean is that I for one will not support these people.

You're not going to support these people because they critiscize other people with, in your view (and probably true in general I guess) waning credulity?

Do you support EA? I don't support EA (or try not too) because of their well documented business practices, gutting of companies they take over (or outright destruction of, Westwood for example) and their continual driving of franchises into the ground and needless money-grabbing annualization of many games that is slowly polluting the industry as a whole.

I admit, I don't really recall the examples you gave about 3DR critiscizing devs, so I'm not saying they didn't happen, but I generally keep up with the news and I don't think 3D Realms is really known as a giant mouthpiece of critiscism in the industry.

My point is, are you saying when (if) DNF comes out and if it happens to be a great game you're not going to bother buying/playing it?

I'm just saying your standards for not supporting a company seem a bit strange to me, as a company "running it's mouth", doesn't really seem to strike me as a big reason to totally shun off all their products. I mean, by that standard, you should be never buying anything coming out of Epic Games with the way Mark Rein talks, or indeed any games licensing the Unreal 3 engine as those licensees are in effect directly supporting Epic/Mark Rein.

[SuperMonkeyFighter2]

You're not going to support these people because they critiscize other people with, in your view (and probably true in general I guess) waning credulity?

Do you support EA? I don't support EA (or try not too) because of their well documented business practices, gutting of companies they take over (or outright destruction of, Westwood for example) and their continual driving of franchises into the ground and needless money-grabbing annualization of many games that is slowly polluting the industry as a whole.

I admit, I don't really recall the examples you gave about 3DR critiscizing devs, so I'm not saying they didn't happen, but I generally keep up with the news and I don't think 3D Realms is really known as a giant mouthpiece of critiscism in the industry.

My point is, are you saying when (if) DNF comes out and if it happens to be a great game you're not going to bother buying/playing it?

I'm just saying your standards for not supporting a company seem a bit strange to me, as a company "running it's mouth", doesn't really seem to strike me as a big reason to totally shun off all their products. I mean, by that standard, you should be never buying anything coming out of Epic Games with the way Mark Rein talks, or indeed any games licensing the Unreal 3 engine as those licensees are in effect directly supporting Epic/Mark Rein.

Yeah ... you got it :)

I don't buy EA games at all ever since what happened to Origin actually. Anyway, it's very easy to isolate just about any company in existance and say, "I'm not supporting X company because ...". For some it's EA. For others it may be Nike, or Sony. To each his own, and while I like to know someone's reasons for doing so (usually to see if I agree), I don't object (unless the reasons for the boycott are false (ie: Nike sneakers cause cancer)).

I've seen a few Mark R comments. Not the same to me as what 3DR specifically has done over the years. With that said, maybe if I've read as many Epic comments as I have 3DR comments I may feel different.

Here's (some of) my feeling(s) behind this:

You're a dev without a competing product. You go out of your way to knock another dev with a product on the market (I'll use their comments on Raven's Star Trek Voyager title as a loose example). There is a chance those comments will cost that game sales. Maybe not a lot, but in the PC market, every copy counts, right? Why would you do such a thing? Why not talk about their own products versus another company's? It's one thing if they came out at the same time, or in the same window (When they thought they were coming out with Duke around the time of Doom 3, they did knock Doom. However, I guess that's understandable, as that may have been a competitor).

For a group who has not released a game in many, many years, they have a lot to say, and at times do so at the expense (and potential sales) of a non competitor.

I'm not a fan. If Duke is great, then good for them. I wish them no ill will; however I cannot plunk down my cash on their behalf.

[TrackZero]

Your just pissy about the Duke topic in general, aren't you? Did he pee in your cereal as a child or something?


Again, already went over this. Thanks for learning how to read.

[TrackZero]

They've released. That's all you can come up with? Well no shit, Sherlock. I'm talking about development cycles. TF2 had to be scrapped several times, usually after massive press of each build, then went all hush hush when they finally decided on their current look. I've still got multiple magazines with 10 pages spreads of the different versions of TF2 over the years, just like I've got ones for DNF. It's been the same development arch, Valve just does it much better.


No, TF2 only had two media phases. The initial Battlefield 2-esque one that they quickly shut up about while it was being worked on, followed by a massive quiet time and then the unveiling of the TF2 we know of today. DNF on the other hand keeps showing things off and changing it every few years, and George continually makes news stories by his various industry comments (while we all keep asking, "Don't you have a game you're supposed to be working on right now?"). They're two entirely different beasts in the way they were handled, but similar in development time and how the projects were started over again. Which was my initial point, again, if you'd bothered to read.

Edit: And following on the "you not reading" thing, I'll repeat this here for you. I'm not saying people shouldn't look forward to DNF, hope it's a great game or buy it when it comes out. I'm just saying I don't give a fuck about it and I'd hope the next time there's a DNF story in the news, it's giving at least a month/year estimated release time instead of yet more hype.

[Scaryfaced]

Well, at least now I know someone peed in your cereal. I sware, EvAv seems to have the highest concetration of smart posters on the net, but most of them seem to be pretty damn full of themselves as a result. Why a simple disagreement about a fuckin game has to turn into a War of words, I'll never know. I you feel the need to belittle me about my opinion of DNF, go for the gold, buddy.

I remember distinctly 3 seperate iterations of TF2. It went through the battlefield stage with parachut drops and voice integration, another try with a more defined class structure but keeping with the vaguely military theme, and now it's cartoony throwback to the original TF. But honestly, what's the fucking difference? It was a dev project that was forced to start over, the last reiteration being relatively unadvertised. Same goes for DNF, in my opinion.

As for your apparent point, which I must be too stupid to have gleamed out of the rest of your drival, is completely fair. You don't want to hear about DNF anymore unless it includes a release date. Fine, good for you. I'd love to hear when it'll be released too. MY POINT was that all the hype you dispise this game for isn't created by 3DRealms in the first place. Hell, this whole post is directed at something 3DR included as a sneak peak in a game they just released. They didn't even release the screenshots directly to press outlets. This isn't a case of a company over hyping a product. Its a case of game media obsessing over a product.

So basically, my point is that you've got no reason to hate 3DRealms. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Obviously your going to keep on hating them, so I'm pretty much wasting my time. Yet, I don't think that makes my point invalid.

[Crowe]

Of course the hype is generated by 3D Realms. The hype for DNF carried over from the fantastically awesome Duke Nukem 3D that gamers all over the world absolutely loved/love. And they have kept that incredible hype going by releasing screenshots and teaser trailers over and over without saying another word.

And now there are several problems, many many gamers out there, me included have gotten fed up with the bullshit they keep throwing out because we have been looking forward to a sequel to one most enjoyable first person shooters released (It oozed fun).

I think this is a case of Hate the Player, Don't hate the game. 3D realms have played on the hype for Dn3d without giving fans anything substantial for years now, and in the end it will be Duke paying the price as gamers will no longer have the energy to care.

[TrackZero]

Well, at least now I know someone peed in your cereal. I sware, EvAv seems to have the highest concetration of smart posters on the net, but most of them seem to be pretty damn

*snip*

Don't care, thanks for being long winded. I don't like this game or studio, you can't change that, get over it.

And it's "swear" and "you're", learn to spell.

[JDMig]

Well SuperMonkey, I actually wasn't aware there were that many such incidents regarding 3D Realms and the scope of which. I don't know if I can entirely agree with your position yet on 3D Realms without looking into them more myself, as I intend to now, but if all that's correct, and in the way/with the intent you stated I guess I can understand your position about them.

Still, to others, I can understand not buying a game for the purposes of not rewarding a company because you think they're scum, and that you have justifable reasons for thinking they're scum, but not people saying they won't check out a (possible) good game upon release just because it took too long or that the wait was annoying to you.

[BlackPete]

People still care about this game? Amazing.

[SuperMonkeyFighter2]

Well SuperMonkey, I actually wasn't aware there were that many such incidents regarding 3D Realms and the scope of which. I don't know if I can entirely agree with your position yet on 3D Realms without looking into them more myself, as I intend to now, but if all that's correct, and in the way/with the intent you stated I guess I can understand your position about them.

Still, to others, I can understand not buying a game for the purposes of not rewarding a company because you think they're scum, and that you have justifable reasons for thinking they're scum, but not people saying they won't check out a (possible) good game upon release just because it took too long or that the wait was annoying to you.

Honestly man, I appreciate that. I am by no means calling for a boycott on my personal standards. More or less, if someone only spent cash on products made by companies with integrity, then the economy would come to a crashing halt.
I could care less if a game is late. The only ones who feel the pinch are the publisher and developer of that game (as those costs are never passed to the consumer). Usually, the later the game, the more I tend to root for it.
With that said, I've read too much Scott Miller and George B stuff over the years (including Fatbabies if you recall that message board) that just went to the point of me just not liking them or their company (I feel the same about Derek Smart, but I don't think he's around anymore :)

I feel that companies sometimes step over a (personal) line in one way or another. As a result, I can't sit here and say, "Boy, what this guy did was kinda fucked up", and then follow that statement by giving them my money. I also understand that my reasons may seem trivial to many. That's cool, as I'm not trying to convert anyone :) However, I also feel that people shouldn't hate on these guys simply because it's en vogue to do so.

[Wasson_]

What about the Duke game that was on the 64? Ground Zero? That was actually pretty fun from what I remember...

[Scaryfaced]

*snip*

Don't care, thanks for being long winded. I don't like this game or studio, you can't change that, get over it.

And it's "swear" and "you're", learn to spell.

When you resort to spelling corrections, you know you've won! Have a good one, see ya next disagreement. *waves*

[jpc_theoneandonly]

Years upon years for what? Screenshots. 111!!!OmFGBBQ11!!1!!1LEE7. I am not impressed.

[mystic_llama]

When you resort to spelling corrections, you know you've won! Have a good one, see ya next disagreement. *waves*

Yeah, escpecially when he makes corrections that are wrong...

And it's "swear" and "you're", learn to spell.

Somebody peed in you are cereal? Really? Sorry, but its Your. Way to make yourself look like a complete douche. Seriously, what a fucking retard :rolleyes:

[carnage11]

Yeah, escpecially when he makes corrections that are wrong...



Somebody peed in you are cereal? Really? Sorry, but its Your. Way to make yourself look like a complete douche. Seriously, what a fucking retard :rolleyes:

I think he was referring to this...
Obviously your going to keep on hating them,

Where it would be you're as in you are. Either way who cares?:p

[Lobster Mobster]

Yeah, escpecially when he makes corrections that are wrong...



Somebody peed in you are cereal? Really? Sorry, but its Your. Way to make yourself look like a complete douche. Seriously, what a fucking retard :rolleyes:

I love irony. It's "it's." As in, "it is." "Its" is possessive (or plural?).