Sony's Akihabara Press Event: Still no playable PS3 games???

[Red Cloak]

From PS3.IGN (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/661/661023p1.html):

The difference between the TGS showing and this one is in the experience. Whereas the TGS showing took place in an open environment, exposed to the deafening sounds of a game convention, the Akihabara showing is being held in a closed off hall. Attendees are able to experience the trailers with proper sound -- and we can assure you that the MGS4 trailer sounds just as nice as it looks.
Not sure what to make of this, less than 6 months till Spring 2006, and we have still yet to see one playable game. We have tons of movies, and a few in engine tech demos, and that's about it. Perhaps ID and others really meant it when they said the PS3 wasn't developer friendly.

I could go on, and I really want to, but I'll just wait for the gaming press to report on it first. Remember when Kutaragi proclaimed there woulc be playable games at TGS? =\

[TheEpicOfTyler]

I wasn't aware the PS3 had a launch date yet.

[Mason]

Playable games, sure. Just not for the PS3.

[Achilles]

I wasn't aware the PS3 had a launch date yet.They haven't set a spesific date, but they've been saying Spring for a year now at least. Personally I think they're either lying, or will fail to meet their launch date, but that's what they're saying. They haven't shown one playable game yet apart from the demo of the Gundam game that may or may not have been running on a dev kit. The MGS trailer was supposedly running on dev kits, and it looked great, but it showed no gameplay at all.

[JazGalaxy]

I think they're really trying to wait until after XBox 360 launches.

Simply put, Sony lies. They try to make their proucts seem like the most fantastic tecnology available, and show no real proof, but rather cooborating fiction, like the killzone 2 trailer. This forces gamers to use their imaginations about what the games will be like, and the gamers imagination will produce for more fantastic games than any developer ever could. Then, gamers will feel as though the 360 is inferior to what the PS3 can do, not because it is acutally that capable, but becuase they imagine it to be so. I've already run into people like this. They're like "I may get a 360 now... but I really want to see the PS3! That thing is going to blow it out of the water!!!" They have no reason to think this, but their imaginations have made it a fact.

If Sony can go through the 360 launch (from now till christmas) without actually showing their hand, they can wrangle a few units from microsofts grasp based on sheer bluffing.

I think this "dream up a sony game and send it to us" idea is just more of the same strategy. Get people dreaming.

[Kelegacy]

Red Cloak...are you J. Allard? Every piece of bad Sony news comes from you. Are you the one who started the Playstation 3<Geforce "whatever" cards controversy?

Seriously though, I do want to see some playable games. I don't want them to rush it too much on account of MS, but at least calm my beating heart. Sony would be smart in making sure that this Christmas every store has a bulging stock of PStwo's. Because Sony could still outsell the 360 for the holiday rush alone, with their aging PS2.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

As much as I dislike Sony, I think they are waiting to unveil their games until they are at the quality level (visually) of the Gundam Game, the Killzone video, the Heavenly sword trailer, etc. I believe it is capable with this new machine and I think they are going to ensure developers either take advantage of the new power or they don't put out their product. Xbox 360 has (at least early on) taken a quantity over quality approach.For 360, the 'real' next gen games (games designed specifically for the 360, not just ported over) will not be out until Spring or Summer of 06'. Sony is probably banking that the consumers will be so unimpressed by the graphics and lack of innovation on those early 360 titles that they won't rush out and buy the 360. MS really needs to manufacture a ton of the systems, because they will sell out this holiday season. However, it may have a tougher time after holiday 2005.
Besides, it really doesn't benefit Sony to unveil playable games this soon before they launch. The only thing they may have gained was that it would have changed the minds of a few consumers who may have decided to hold off on buying a 360. Conversely, if the gameplay was good enough, it may have made a lot of gamers decide to get a 360.

Jut my opinion on it...

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Red Cloak...are you J. Allard? Every piece of bad Sony news comes from you. Are you the one who started the Playstation 3<Geforce "whatever" cards controversy?

Seriously though, I do want to see some playable games. I don't want them to rush it too much on account of MS, but at least calm my beating heart. Sony would be smart in making sure that this Christmas every store has a bulging stock of PStwo's. Because Sony could still outsell the 360 for the holiday rush alone, with their aging PS2.
I'm not so sure about that. MS beat Sony last Christmas. With the focus now on next gen, I think the PS2 will have a harder time getting the console dollar this time. I think MS will be able to sell just about every 360 they can make, this season...but it is after the holiday season that will be the big question.

[PantherModern]

I think Sony is just learning from their previous bruises and bumps. It's better to wait until you have solid, near final product instead of rushing and throwing something out the door to satiate the fanboys. It's almost like Sony is taking a note from Nintendo or Apple. Just wait until you have something firm, then launch it on the world and create a frenzy. I certainly don't care for Sony, but if they are going to keep MS off their backs, they can't simply get into some kind of techie pissing contest. They've come out and said that their hardware will be superior, and now they are going to hold off until they can prove it. I honestly don't think that 360's short "lead" is really going to change things this gen. The Dreamcast had a lead too. It even had just as much power and awesome graphics. We all know how that turned out. Sony's not dumb, and if they start treating MS as an equal and trying to come at them tit for tat (oh, you think that looks good? LOOK AT THIS! /kutaragi pulls rabbit out of hat), people might actually believe it to be true.

[Carnisaur]

What if Red Cloak was J. Allard? That would be fucking nuts.

[EvilBob46]

Red Cloak...are you J. Allard? Every piece of bad Sony news comes from you. Are you the one who started the Playstation 3<Geforce "whatever" cards controversy?


I'm pretty sure he was. Hilarious. And what's with the bolding and underlining of key phrases and blabbering on about personal conflicts like "I could go on, and I really want to, bla bla" in the news posts? Red Cloack, are you listening?

[SupaFlyTNT]

What if Red Cloak was J. Allard? That would be fucking nuts.
OR even crazier... what if YOU are J. Allard, only you are trying to play it off as if Red Cloak is! I've got my "evil eye" on you Carnisaur, aka J. Allard. :)

[Lexicon]

It was Red Cloak with the PS3 < Geforce story. Oh yeah and I am J. Allard.

[Kefkataran]

I just want everyone to know unequivocally that I am J. Allard.

Also: I'm sure Sony's waiting to announce a real launch date for a reason. I don't think "Spring 2006" is even close to solid nor was ever meant to be taken that way. And the guy who wrote an essay on how Sony lies on the first page needs to chill. I still don't get why people take this kind of stuff so personally.

[Kelegacy]

I'm not so sure about that. MS beat Sony last Christmas. With the focus now on next gen, I think the PS2 will have a harder time getting the console dollar this time. I think MS will be able to sell just about every 360 they can make, this season...but it is after the holiday season that will be the big question.

Because PS2's were in such short supply. People around here couldn't get their hands on a PS2, so they went over to the Xbox which then, in turn, became scarce. Sony did a boo-boo with that one. And I agree, the 360 will sell out like nearly every other launch system--you can only make them so fast and the early adopters usually out number the production lines. But after, around March and during the slow season of gaming, we'll see.

This should be fun, especially next year at this time. The war will have just truly started.

[danhoo]

Whichever one of you is J. Allard, quit it with the "extreeeeme" look...it's freaking me out.

[Dabombpizza]

I am Sparti--I mean J. Allard.

[Dabombpizza]

Simply put, Sony lies.

I hate to tell you this JazGalaxy, but as soon as you start making a product that makes million of dollars, you'll start lying too. Sony does lie. So does ***, and to a lesser extent Nintendo. McDonalds lies, Coke lies, Dell lies, God even lied a couple times (omnibenovolent my ass). So it really shouldn't suprise you.

At this point in time, all three companies are playing the PR game, and we as consumers have to pick through the bullshit to find out which system actually supports our intrests.

Oh, and I heard Infinite Labs lies too, but that's just a rumor.

[Citizen Philip]

I think Red Cloak might be some kind of Microsoft intarweb script that hunts for Sony articles and generates baseless rumours.

Of course, everyone enjoys baseless rumours, but this is getting stale - like SOOOooOooo last week.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Did u her that MS iz going to by $ony and stompz Ningaydo in2 teh ground??

The above fact is proof that I am the REAL J. Allard.

[cjrizzo]

I do not think that we will see PS3 until November 2006 domestically at the earliest. What worries me is that this kind of news does not bode well for a Spring 06 release in Japan. Add to that the expected cost of this system and its not looking very good right now.

[Dabombpizza]

To defend Red Cloak, he's not lying about anything. We haven't seen any playable PS3 demos and we haven't heard very much stuff. However, dissing a system in the post is not very unbiased or newsworthy.

[DiBiddilyBop]

Will the real J. Allard please stand up?

[mister_slim]

So, when Sony said that the first chance to play the PS3 would be at an event in February they were lying?

Can we embargo Red Cloak newsposts until he grows up a bit?

[Eric_T_Cheng]

The MGS trailer was supposedly running on dev kits, and it looked great, but it showed no gameplay at all.

That sounds like the past Metal Gear Solid games though... ;)

[Zanzibar]

I do not think that we will see PS3 until November 2006 domestically at the earliest. What worries me is that this kind of news does not bode well for a Spring 06 release in Japan. Add to that the expected cost of this system and its not looking very good right now.

Don't be surprised if Sony aims for a worldwide launch in November 2006. Anything they're saying now is just to get to to think the PS3 is 'just around the corner' so you won't buy an X360.

[Kefkataran]

Did u her that MS iz going to by $ony and stompz Ningaydo in2 teh ground??

The above fact is proof that I am the REAL J. Allard.

He's got us pegged.

To defend Red Cloak, he's not lying about anything. We haven't seen any playable PS3 demos and we haven't heard very much stuff. However, dissing a system in the post is not very unbiased or newsworthy.

It's less that he's lying and more that he's making news of nothing. You know.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Will the real J. Allard please stand up?


*Stands up*

[jspeak32]

Simply put, Sony lies. They try to make their proucts seem like the most fantastic tecnology available, and show no real proof, but rather cooborating fiction, like the killzone 2 trailer. This forces gamers to use their imaginations about what the games will be like, and the gamers imagination will produce for more fantastic games than any developer ever could. Then, gamers will feel as though the 360 is inferior to what the PS3 can do, not because it is acutally that capable, but becuase they imagine it to be so. I've already run into people like this. They're like "I may get a 360 now... but I really want to see the PS3! That thing is going to blow it out of the water!!!" They have no reason to think this, but their imaginations have made it a fact.

I agree 100%, you are so right.

[Kelegacy]

I am always curious about Red Cloak because he submits newsposts but never participates in the threads. It's like he gives throws a bone into our warren and walks away, while we gnaw and snap at each other.

*snaps at Magnanimous Gnome

[Dracula-X]

Can we embargo Red Cloak newsposts until he grows up a bit?
I second that. Put an end to the juvenile hate campaign already:
"The PS3 hard drive will not be used for games"
"GeForce 7800 LESS powerful than PS3???" <--he should have been shot for this one
"Total Videogames: Sony loses support of Nippon Ichi"
"Solid Snake goes Metrosexual: Fabulous Moustache!"
"Sony's Online Plans Still in Stone Age"
but:
"Cliffy B on X360: "This thing is a BEAST""
"Ghost Recon X360: Prepare the clean underwear"
And in other threads it's the same piss-on-Sony, 360-rul3z song and dance.

I am always curious about Red Cloak because he submits newsposts but never participates in the threads. It's like he gives throws a bone into our warren and walks away, while we gnaw and snap at each other.
I'd wager he's probably got one or more other accounts here and just uses the 'Cloak' to post his garbage.

[Kelegacy]

Good journalism Dracula. You found a post history and did some great work there. It all makes sense now.

[Murmillo]

I still wonder why people think he should be shot for the 7800 post. He posted a question on a badly writen sentence and people (like the average idiots they are) didn't fully read and took it as spoken fact. Including other sites.

Just because Red Cloak doubts Sony and its PS3, doesn't mean its juvenile hate.

"The PS3 hard drive will not be used for games" Ken said it... or loosely indicated this. Does anybody know what Ken is saying any more?
"GeForce 7800 LESS powerful than PS3???" So? its a question.. people need to learn to read.
"Total Videogames: Sony loses support of Nippon Ichi" Rumors are it just isn't Nippon Ichi leaving Sony.
"Solid Snake goes Metrosexual: Fabulous Moustache!" Humorous.
"Sony's Online Plans Still in Stone Age" No body has been able to prove that Sony HAS any plans - AT all.
but:
"Cliffy B on X360: "This thing is a BEAST"" Posted a real quote from Cliffy B. God forbid that.
"Ghost Recon X360: Prepare the clean underwear" Most people did claim they needed new underwear.

[Lexicon]

I still wonder why people think he should be shot for the 7800 post. He posted a question on a badly writen sentence and people (like the average idiots they are) didn't fully read and took it as spoken fact. Including other sites.

What Red Cloak originally posted on that thread before it was edited was ""The GeForce 7800 is almost identical to the RSX, the rsx is only slightly less powerful." and followed up with later statement saying "Nah, it's in the latest PSM. I COULD get you a scan, but I doubt that would be a good idea." Also he attributed it to a quote from an Nvidia spokesperson. Not only was it not a quote from an Nvidia spokesperson the quote he said came from the article didnt even appear in the article itself as was shown when I uploaded the scan.

You are right people didnt read fully, if in this case you mean Red Cloak who didnt read fully and then made up a quote based on what you thought he read which was wrong.

[Mason]

Umm...writing a post suggesting that an article states that the PS3's GPU is less powerful than a 7800 when in fact that statement never appears in the article is deceptive.

I don't think that Red Cloak is a MS viral marketing consultant, but he's pretty damn close. Most of his 69 posts are green-lit news items, if that's any indication.

[Dracula-X]

I still wonder why people think he should be shot for the 7800 post. He posted a question on a badly writen sentence and people (like the average idiots they are) didn't fully read and took it as spoken fact. Including other sites.
I don't think you fully read the thread, but Lexicon broke it down quite clearly.

Just because Red Cloak doubts Sony and its PS3, doesn't mean its juvenile hate.
Given his posting history it sure as hell is a juvenile hate agenda and nothing more.

"The PS3 hard drive will not be used for games" Ken said it... or loosely indicated this. Does anybody know what Ken is saying any more?He touted HDD computing/media functions: network, editing, Linux/other OS's, etc. PSM mentioned developers were told it wasn't for use for games. If you have a link were Ken says it I'd love to see it.
"GeForce 7800 LESS powerful than PS3???" So? its a question.. people need to learn to read. *cough*cough*
"Total Videogames: Sony loses support of Nippon Ichi" Rumors are it just isn't Nippon Ichi leaving Sony. Rumors are you don't get why I posted this history
"Solid Snake goes Metrosexual: Fabulous Moustache!" Humorous.or Not.
"Sony's Online Plans Still in Stone Age" No body has been able to prove that Sony HAS any plans - AT all. But somehow they are definitively in the stone age! Based on what, again?
but:
"Cliffy B on X360: "This thing is a BEAST"" Posted a real quote from Cliffy B. God forbid that.If it came from anyone else, fine
"Ghost Recon X360: Prepare the clean underwear" Most people did claim they needed new underwear. I must not be most people, but that is beside the point

[Player 1]

Can someone answer me this?

How come when Nintendo announce a console and refuse to show anything of it for months on end, having prick-teasing press conferences, suggest a launch date in the first half of 2006 and say absolutely NOTHING about the software that you'll be playing.. ..it's regarded as some BRAVE, INNOVATIVE, DARING and HONEST strategy.

When Sony say more, show more, work to similar dates and decided not to DEMONSTRATE interactive games but show them in video form .. ..it's regarded as a company who is LOST, CLUELESS, SCARED and "Teh D0mED!!!!11"?


Please explain the above without falling into the typical one-dimensional fanboy/hater characters that I see in gaming communities everywhere.

Thanks.

[bjornbarspingvinen]

sony still hasn´t shown any playable games.... That in itself should raise some doubts. I do think they lie about the Killzone demo, as they overhyped their "emotion engine" with PS2. I don´t really care that much, because I end up buying both of them anyhow, as I have done in the past.

[Wonka]

Can someone answer me this?

How come when Nintendo announce a console and refuse to show anything of it for months on end, having prick-teasing press conferences, suggest a launch date in the first half of 2006 and say absolutely NOTHING about the software that you'll be playing.. ..it's regarded as some BRAVE, INNOVATIVE, DARING and HONEST strategy.

When Sony say more, show more, work to similar dates and decided not to DEMONSTRATE interactive games but show them in video form .. ..it's regarded as a company who is LOST, CLUELESS, SCARED and "Teh D0mED!!!!11"?


Please explain the above without falling into the typical one-dimensional fanboy/hater characters that I see in gaming communities everywhere.

Thanks.

This is because Nintendo is already a more specialized product. Nintendo has demonstrated for two generations now that they do not need to be on top to survive. People may disagree about whether this is an optimal strategy for them, but most do not doubt that the company could go for another gen. at least without making too much more money than they did last time. In contrast, Sony is currently on top, and has nowhere to go but down from where they are. Nintendo is a smaller company, and they are still the king of handhelds (well, FOR NOW at least). Also Sony (in spite of their enormous size) has grown fairly dependent on the success of their console division for the companies well being. A LOT of the profits at Sony hinge on the continued domination of the Playstation brand. If Sony fumbles this and loses a lot of marketshare, the entire Sony company will feel pain. So Nintendo has smaller reserves than Sony, and it's a smaller company. But you can definitely argue that they are actually risking considerably less in terms of their day to day business decisions. If the revolution tanks, they will likely not have to cash in all their chips the way that Sega did (though it WOULD hurt them a lot). MS seems to be in the best shape of the big three. They are poised to gain marketshare, they have the most money in the bank, and the other part of MS is very successful and not really dependent on the sucess of the X360 at all. For MS, the X360 is really for the future, and not needed for the present so terribly much. Also, hardware is becoming increasing unimportant for consoles and software is becoming increasingly important as prices for making games continue to skyrocket.

But I think that the LARGEST reason why people want to pick on Sony right now is because it's fairly obvious that Nintendo and MS are both trying to adapt their business in their own ways to adjust to the skyrocketing cost of making games, while Sony seems to be relying on the continued uber-popularity of their product to drive things. MS is trying to bring down the cost of making games with stuff like XNA, and the LIVE! marketplace. And Nintendo wants to try and open up to new kinds of consumers and still keep their console cheap to make (rather than cutting edge). Both of these are just attempts to adapt to a highly competitive space. Sonys stategy seems to be to just count of things staying the same... I don't think that this will pay out for them. My friend tells me that he recently got to see a PS3 dev kit getting installed in the office, and the it was even a pain to just get the damned thing to fucking turn on. To TURN ON! Will these people ever learn that having a console that is hard to develop for at a time when a) the cost of game development is higher than ever, and b) there is actual potential competition, is maybe not a good idea? Stay tuned I guess...

If there are problems even turning the damned dev kits on (let alone coding and debugging games for a cell processor), and there are still no playable games to demo, then I would hazard guess that Sony is bluffing about Spring. The sooner that the PS3 is supposedly going to be here, the more people will consider waiting for it...

Thats my 2 cents.

[Player 1]

Thank you Wonka, although there's elements I don't entirely agree with in your post, I'd say thats quite possibly the best forum post I've ever seen on Evil Avatar since I started reading it.

[jspeak32]

Can someone answer me this?

How come when Nintendo announce a console and refuse to show anything of it for months on end, having prick-teasing press conferences, suggest a launch date in the first half of 2006 and say absolutely NOTHING about the software that you'll be playing.. ..it's regarded as some BRAVE, INNOVATIVE, DARING and HONEST strategy.

When Sony say more, show more, work to similar dates and decided not to DEMONSTRATE interactive games but show them in video form .. ..it's regarded as a company who is LOST, CLUELESS, SCARED and "Teh D0mED!!!!11"?


Please explain the above without falling into the typical one-dimensional fanboy/hater characters that I see in gaming communities everywhere.

Thanks.


It probably has to do with accountability. Nintendo has delivered in the past even after being secretive and whatnot. Their most recent product being the Nintendo DS. Everyone was skeptic when it was first announced, but now we're seeing the greatness of it. And before that was the rumble pak and the analog stick, which were both ideas taken from them and implemented into the sony controller (and now have both become standards).
I guess what I'm saying is, nintendo has reason to be secretive because of what's happened to them in the past. So I would say alot of people understand that, but I think it has more to do with what I was originally saying, accountability. It's their reputation for delivering a great product. I think that's why people are more understanding when it comes to Nintendo's actions.
Sales records aside, I think people don't entirely trust Sony's actions. It's their accountability which causes this negative reaction from gamers from their similar strategies as what Nintendo has done. History seems to repeat itself, as so far we haven't seen a change in sony's strategy. Almost the first whole year of the ps2's life, it was good for nothing more than a movie player. It had very few good games. The first gen games had jaggies and made them look worse than even the Dreamcast, which was disappointing. And the exact same thing is happening with the PSP as far as the games are concerned. It's been out for months with very few good games, and like the ps2 was, up until recently the psp has been good for nothing more than a movie player. Now we're finally seeing some halfway decent ones with a couple of good ones too. They previously used smoke and mirrors at game shows to hype up their ps2 beyond what it was capable of. And now they're doing it again.
So I guess when we hear that nintendo is quiet, we're thinking, "oh, they're cooking up something fantastic". And when we hear sony quiet, we think "oh, they're just sitting on their asses, waiting for their competition to come up with a great idea and then steal it".
If the launch lineup for the ps2 and the psp were great, and the demos they showed at game shows in the past reflected exactly how their games would look, I doubt people would be treating their quietness the way they are now. If they didn't have a history of being deceptive, then I have no doubt in my mind we'd all be treating their quietness as a BRAVE, INNOVATIVE, DARING and HONEST strategy as well.

[Captain Awesome]

Ken stated that the PS3 will have the power to impregnate both your brother and sister.

[Player 1]

It probably has to do with accountability. Nintendo has delivered in the past even after being secretive and whatnot. Their most recent product being the Nintendo DS. Everyone was skeptic when it was first announced, but now we're seeing the greatness of it.

I guess I'm not everyone.

And before that was the rumble pak and the analog stick, which were both ideas taken from them and implemented into the sony controller (and now have both become standards).

Both rumble and analogue control were in home devices (such as sidewinder pads and the Vectrex console) way before Nintendo stomped in and took all the credit for them.

Don't believe the hype.

I think that's why people are more understanding when it comes to Nintendo's actions.

I'm of the opinion it's because they don't check facts or ask questions.

Sales records aside, I think people don't entirely trust Sony's actions. It's their accountability which causes this negative reaction from gamers from their similar strategies as what Nintendo has done.

I find this odd. I don't recall Sony getting into legal hot water for deliberately limiting availabiliy of Super Mario Bros 3, (thus maintaining an inflated retail price) and then having to pay back to consumers thier act of deception and greed by offering money-off vouchers in future products.

Maybe that's [one of the reasons] why I don't trust Nintendo?

History seems to repeat itself,

It most certainly does.. ..the stories I could tell you.. ..I really don't think you'd like the sound of any of them. :(

...and so on in a similar vein..

I'm sorry jspeak32, but when I read what you say and compare it to the history and times I know and lived through you utterly fail the fanboy test. Additionally, Wonka answered my question with detail and accuracy - I appreciate the effort but it really wasn't necessary.

Good luck in future posts!

[bone_matrix]

Originally Posted by jspeak32
And before that was the rumble pak and the analog stick, which were both ideas taken from them and implemented into the sony controller (and now have both become standards).


Both rumble and analogue control were in home devices (such as sidewinder pads and the Vectrex console) way before Nintendo stomped in and took all the credit for them.

Don't believe the hype.

While yes, the rumble and analogue control were in home devices before the Nintendo 64, most people didn't play them. (I'll but a lot of the EvAv community did, but, we are a whole different breed of game player.) The N64 took both of those, and thrust them into the mainstream of gamers. The Playstation didn't have either at launch. After they saw the possibilities, they put them in.

Thats how I view it. Nintendo didn't make it, they made it work.

[Player 1]

While yes, the rumble and analogue control were in home devices before the Nintendo 64, most people didn't play them. (I'll but a lot of the EvAv community did, but, we are a whole different breed of game player.) The N64 took both of those, and thrust them into the mainstream of gamers. The Playstation didn't have either at launch. After they saw the possibilities, they put them in.

Thats how I view it. Nintendo didn't make it, they made it work.

Well, actually, what Nintendo did with it was NEITHER invent it NOR make it work. They simply took away the gamer's options for alternative controls.

You can perceive that as 'making it work' but when you give people no choice, you're not actually helping them.

If you're a Nintendo developer making N64 games then Nintendo laid the law down to you - "make it analogue control - emphasize this above most other things". I was at a gaming event with the editor of a well respected UK multiformat next-gen games mag and he was giving me feedback from some third parties for Revolution - Nnitendo are doing it again. "Make it show off our main idea or we won't go forward with it". Apparently, the 3rd parties aren't too thrilled at being dictated to like that.

What I'm saying is that the hype and percieved innovation of Nintendo falls apart when you look at it without romanticising it.

They didn't invent it
They didn't 'make it work'

But, as they say, you can lead a fanboy to logic but you can't make him think. :rolleyes:

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I am always curious about Red Cloak because he submits newsposts but never participates in the threads. It's like he gives throws a bone into our warren and walks away, while we gnaw and snap at each other.

*snaps at Magnanimous Gnome


Grrr baby! ;)


Given his posting history it sure as hell is a juvenile hate agenda and nothing more.

Did this post pop out into 3D for anyone else? Anyone??



So Player 1, what you really want to hear is that this site is full of Nintendo fanboys and Sony h8ters, right? :rolleyes:

I think the fact that Sony has consistenly lied about their products and failed to deliver almost completely is cause to be skeptical when the company says that the greatest console EVAR is going to be released in 5-7 months time.

For the record, people have been complaining about the lack of Revolution titles, either announced or shown. You seem to be conveniently ignoring this in order to claim that everyone on this site is nothing but a bunch of Nintendo fanboys.

According to Nintendo, the Revolution will be out in about a year, give or take. According to Sony, the PS3 will be out in about 6 months, give or take. Which one should we be seeing actual playable titles for first?

[absolut taco]

Here is the Sony problem from my point of view:
They showed us better-than-pixar graphics (Killzone 2, Motorstorm) at E3, many months ago. Since then, there has been no news, trailers, anything. With the 360 about to be launched, Sony should show some real stuff if they have it. And if they don't have it, they are up shit creek w/o a paddle.

Since they pulled the same crap with the PS2, I will diss Sony until I see a reason not to.

[jspeak32]

I guess I'm not everyone.

When I said everyone, I meant majority.


I find this odd. I don't recall Sony getting into legal hot water for deliberately limiting availabiliy of Super Mario Bros 3, (thus maintaining an inflated retail price) and then having to pay back to consumers thier act of deception and greed by offering money-off vouchers in future products.

Maybe that's [one of the reasons] why I don't trust Nintendo?

While this maybe true (I'm assuming it is), you're talking about them being deceptive over a single gaming title, not an entire system.



It most certainly does.. ..the stories I could tell you.. ..I really don't think you'd like the sound of any of them. :(

The truth is all I'm after, so go ahead.


I'm sorry jspeak32, but when I read what you say and compare it to the history and times I know and lived through you utterly fail the fanboy test. Additionally, Wonka answered my question with detail and accuracy - I appreciate the effort but it really wasn't necessary.

That's fine. You wanted answers, and both me and Wonka attempted to answer them. In that respect, both our motives were the same. As long as you now come to an understanding of something you originally weren't, that's all that matters!

[mister_slim]

"Sony's Online Plans Still in Stone Age" No body has been able to prove that Sony HAS any plans - AT all.
Actually, several Sony people have talked about their online plans. No details, and no way to tell how well it will be implemented, but that above statement is ignorant.

Both rumble and analogue control were in home devices (such as sidewinder pads and the Vectrex console) way before Nintendo stomped in and took all the credit for them.
I still hope people will someday understand the difference between a thumbstick and a joystick.

I find this odd. I don't recall Sony getting into legal hot water for deliberately limiting availabiliy of Super Mario Bros 3, (thus maintaining an inflated retail price) and then having to pay back to consumers thier act of deception and greed by offering money-off vouchers in future products.
Do you have a reference for this? I certainly wouldn't be surprised if someone were sued for a standard industry practice, but I don't remember that at all.

[Player 1]

So Player 1, what you really want to hear is that this site is full of Nintendo fanboys and Sony h8ters, right? :rolleyes:

No, I don't expect people to own up to it - I'd just like them to stop making excuses for Nintendo and taking cheap shots at Sony.

For example - Sony's survey about online features? You guys simply couldn't wait to stick the boot into Sony on that one. Even in the news post it suggests Sony are clueless. Only one or two posts in that entire topic showed some common sense rather than 'h8er' mentality.

And there'll always be excuses made for Nintendo - because 99% of you guys haven't a clue what it's like to work with them. They say very little and the gaming community as whole translates that to "Ah! Nintendo MAGIC!" when actually, there's nothing to tell - and what there is ain't that pretty.

Seriously, work with Nintendo for a year then read any of their press releases (especially the one about how the N64 sticking to cartridges is a benefit to the consumer or how 3rd party support won't be big for Rev because Nintendo doesn't expect 3rd parties to be up to the challenge) and you'll see that shit for what it is: complete bullshit.

I'm just so sick and tired of gamers wearing their ignorance on their sleeve like some badge of honour and trashtalking about stuff they have utterly no comprehension of. It's no wonder why you don't see real game developers (not journos or testers) mingling with gaming communities - it'd drive them batshit crazy.

I think the fact that Sony has consistenly lied about their products and failed to deliver almost completely is cause to be skeptical when

And Nintendo and MS haven't lied? Or are you just having one of those selective memory moments? I dislike Nintendo because, as far as I'm concerned, for the last 10 years they've consistently failed to live up to their promises, have abused their (worryingly) loyal fanbase and held the industry back more than pushed it forwards (particularly in the 16 bit era). They only do something when their's profit in it for them - otherwise your SNES's would have been online back in the 90's (prohibitive contracts for NES and SNES developers - check out why Konami had to create a second company called Ultra Games for examples) - instead we get connectivity up the ass. What they say and what they DO are just as different as Sony or Microsoft.

Anyone for a game of Mario 128? Which E3 did they break their promises? Oh yeah - quite a few.

Or how about this classic "A delayed game may eventually become good, a rushed game will always be bad". Sure Miyamoto. So explain Starfox Adventures then?

Saying <> Doing

the company says that the greatest console EVAR is going to be released in 5-7 months time.

Sony said "the greatest console" or "their greatest console" - because I don't recall reading or hearing that statement being made by Sony themselves. Feel free to link me to your source.

For the record, people have been complaining about the lack of Revolution titles, either announced or shown. You seem to be conveniently ignoring this in order to claim that everyone on this site is nothing but a bunch of Nintendo fanboys.

A complaint here or there is nothing against the wave of low-brow cheap shots directed towards 99% of Sony news. Count them up if you don't believe me.

According to Nintendo, the Revolution will be out in about a year, give or take. According to Sony, the PS3 will be out in about 6 months, give or take. Which one should we be seeing actual playable titles for first?

That's a difference of 6 months - in game development terms, that's not much. What are Nintendo going to do? Launch ANOTHER piece of hardware with a software remake like they did with the GBA (Mario Bros 2), DS (Mario 64), and GB Micro (I forget!)?? I certainly wouldn't put it past them, would you?

Now the cat is out the bag with Revolution Nintendo needn't be scared of their amazing game concepts being nicked. So why aren't they showing us anything at all? Not even a screenshot. Why the hell, with the way I feel towards Nintendo based on their treatment of the gamer over the last 20 years, why the HELL should I celebrate their inactivity?

Unlike so many I refuse to overlook the sort of crimes and failures a company of Nintendo's stature consistently make. Just because the rest of the gaming community prefers to ignore them doesn't mean they don't exist.

I can't make you share my point of view but the facts ARE out there if you're willing to look for them and digest them. However, with more and more sites like Evil Avatar helping enforce the attitude that anything Sony does = bad, compared to any other company then those facts are just getting buried.

Feel free to PM me or add me to your IM list if you want to get further examples. There's no shortage.

[Kamalot]

Ken stated that the PS3 will have the power to impregnate both your brother and sister.
Wirelessly!

And it will age the child using the power of the cell network.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Well, time to leave gaming then Player 1, unless you are just a huge hypocrite, which I have reason to suspect you are.

If you hate Nintendo for lying so damn much, you should be hating MS and Sony too. They lie just as much, if not more (depending on the company).

Time to find a new hobby where giant corporations (or people) don't lie. How about knitting?

[Kamalot]

If you're a Nintendo developer making N64 games then Nintendo laid the law down to you - "make it analogue control - emphasize this above most other things". I was at a gaming event with the editor of a well respected UK multiformat next-gen games mag and he was giving me feedback from some third parties for Revolution - Nnitendo are doing it again. "Make it show off our main idea or we won't go forward with it". Apparently, the 3rd parties aren't too thrilled at being dictated to like that.
Well...

If the game does not take advantage of the revolutionary aspects of the system, a 3rd party would be better off building it for one of the traditional consoles.

That leaves the Revolution with revolution-specific content instead of watered-down content that 'isn't as good' as versions on other consoles.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Why are you specifically attacking Nintendo fans anyway? What about the legions of Xbox fans on this site?

Granted there do seem to be fewer Sony fans overall, but if you want to be around them I am sure there are 1,000+ sites filled to the brim with people who wet themselves when Ken Kutaragi eats a slice of buttered toast.

[Player 1]

Well, time to leave gaming then Player 1, unless you are just a huge hypocrite, which I have reason to suspect you are.

If you hate Nintendo for lying so damn much, you should be hating MS and Sony too. They lie just as much, if not more (depending on the company).

Time to find a new hobby where giant corporations (or people) don't lie. How about knitting?

My ire isn't exclusively with Nintendo - it's predominantly with the gaming community's perception of Nintendo and their fanatical desire to stamp out *any* criticism of the company.

Sony and Microsoft have their fanboys as well - but they're absolutely NOTHING compared to the rabid, deluded Nintendo zealots. It verges on obsession and fanatasism and the degree of abuse I've received for DARING to question the motives of big cuddly Nintendo (as opposed to blindly gushing over any bit of Nintendo news) backs this up. When speaking to most gamers about Nintendo you simply cannot hold an adult conversation. Logic, facts, objectivity don't work.

Funnily enough, when speaking to industry professionals about Nintendo and their highs and lows you can hold a reasoned conversation - even with those who confess to be Nintendo fans. There's a reason for that and I'll not insult your intelligence by spelling it out.



The saddest thing about this blind Nintendo bias is that it's a trend that seems to be growing and its perpetrators are convinced they are doing a good thing.

I don't have a problem with corporations in my hobby. My (much ridiculed) respect for EA demonstrates this. The status of a company means NOTHING to me which is why I believe EA deserves praise when it does things right and why Nintendo deserve criticism (or at the very least some thoughtful questioning) when they get things wrong. Which they do.

Just because it says Sony or EA doesn't automatically mean it's bad.
Just because it says Nintendo doesn't automatically mean it's good.

If you have a problem accepting that pair of statements then, my friends, you need to practice some more objectivity.

Can you, with hand on heart, honestly say that if you read that news story about Sony's online features survey but it had been about Nintendo that it would have been received the same way?


Exactly.

[bone_matrix]

But, as they say, you can lead a fanboy to logic but you can't make him think.

Ouch. Talk about harsh. I won't say that I own all 3 current systems (but I do) I won't say that I have many different games that I really enjoy that are on all 3 systems (which I do), but I will say that prior to Nintendo, regardless of if they made develepers use it or not, the analogue stick (not joy stick) was not used much, if at all in game systems. Sure, the NiGHTS controller had it, but much like the PS2 HDD, it was barely used. Now, the stick is used by everyone. Rumble existed before, but, until Nintendo took it, it wasn't mainstream.

To me, that is making it work. Its like online gaming. Sure, online gaming existed before, but Microsoft made it work. I like that I have a universal friends list over many games, unlike PC or PS2.


I still hope people will someday understand the difference between a thumbstick and a joystick.

I agree. I agree.

[jspeak32]

Ouch. Talk about harsh. I won't say that I own all 3 current systems (but I do) I won't say that I have many different games that I really enjoy that are on all 3 systems (which I do),

Spoken like a true gamer! I own all 3 current console systems as well. And I own the DS and (gasp, I can't possibly be a nintendo fanbay and say this) PSP. When it's all said and done, the games are the only thing that matters. Sony is in fact my least favorite company of the three, but again, that doesn't matter. I'll be buying their next system. There will be exclusive games on each next gen console that will make all the systems worth buying, so each company is going to get my money, and really I don't think what negative remarks people say on these forums are going to hurt their feelings :)
I'm kinda glad each system launch seems to be seperated like they are, rather than being launched all at once...gives me multiple things to be looking forward to :)

[jspeak32]

Additionally, Wonka answered my question with detail and accuracy - I appreciate the effort but it really wasn't necessary.

None of this is actually necessary :)

[jspeak32]

What I'm saying is that the hype and percieved innovation of Nintendo falls apart when you look at it without romanticising it.
They didn't invent it
They didn't 'make it work'


They made it a success.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I bought both the Xbox and the Gamecube this gen, and I will probably end up with the PS2 sooner or later. This next gen is a different story. I play games much less now than I used to, and I don't have the money to throw into the hobby like I did when I lived with my parents in high school. I have my own expenses now (too many of them, blech), so I am just going to buy one system this time around. I'm leaning towards Nintendo in this regard, and I guess that makes me a fanboy Player 1. I have three main reasons for leaning towards the Revolution:

1)Of the three, I like Nintendo's first party titles the most by far. It really isn't even a contest to be honest.

2)The new controller intrigues me, and of course I will be trying out the system before I buy it.

3)Many seem to mock this practice on this site (who knows why?), but I do research companies and follow their practices before I purchase things from them. Why is this such a bad thing? Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo have all done things in the past that I don't approve of. They continue to do things that I don't agree with. However, of the three, Nintendo has done the least in the last few years to make me question their integrity.

It's not like I just woke up one day, threw on a Zelda shirt that was three sizes too small, and screamed "I LOVE NINTENDO FOR NO REASON, AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE IS A HOMO!!!". I'm not that stupid. My reasons for favoring them over the other two are a product of my experiences. I still don't go into threads about the other systems and needlessly troll.


I don't know why I typed all that out, but hopefully it does something for someone. :p Back to studying for my silly Geology exam.

[Kefkataran]

Can you, with hand on heart, honestly say that if you read that news story about Sony's online features survey but it had been about Nintendo that it would have been received the same way?

Uh, yeah, probably. Except maybe people would expect it cause it's Nintendo and they do wacky shit like this. But for the most part Microsoft/Xbox stuff is all that get away with anything.

[bone_matrix]

Spoken like a true gamer! I own all 3 current console systems as well. And I own the DS and (gasp, I can't possibly be a nintendo fanbay and say this) PSP. When it's all said and done, the games are the only thing that matters. Sony is in fact my least favorite company of the three, but again, that doesn't matter. I'll be buying their next system. There will be exclusive games on each next gen console that will make all the systems worth buying, so each company is going to get my money, and really I don't think what negative remarks people say on these forums are going to hurt their feelings :)
I'm kinda glad each system launch seems to be seperated like they are, rather than being launched all at once...gives me multiple things to be looking forward to :)

You, my friend, are my long lost twin. :D

I also own both a DS and PSP. Along with an N-Gage, Neo Geo Pocket, PDA, every old Nintendo system, Every Sega system, (sans Saturn) Jaguar+Cd, and GBA.

[jspeak32]

I bought both the Xbox and the Gamecube this gen, and I will probably end up with the PS2 sooner or later. This next gen is a different story. I play games much less now than I used to, and I don't have the money to throw into the hobby like I did when I lived with my parents in high school. I have my own expenses now (too many of them, blech), so I am just going to buy one system this time around. I'm leaning towards Nintendo in this regard, and I guess that makes me a fanboy Player 1. I have three main reasons for leaning towards the Revolution:

1)Of the three, I like Nintendo's first party titles the most by far. It really isn't even a contest to be honest.

2)The new controller intrigues me, and of course I will be trying out the system before I buy it.

3)Many seem to mock this practice on this site (who knows why?), but I do research companies and follow their practices before I purchase things from them. Why is this such a bad thing? Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo have all done things in the past that I don't approve of. They continue to do things that I don't agree with. However, of the three, Nintendo has done the least in the last few years to make me question their integrity.

It's not like I just woke up one day, threw on a Zelda shirt that was three sizes too small, and screamed "I LOVE NINTENDO FOR NO REASON, AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE IS A HOMO!!!". I'm not that stupid. My reasons for favoring them over the other two are a product of my experiences. I still don't go into threads about the other systems and needlessly troll.


I don't know why I typed all that out, but hopefully it does something for someone. :p Back to studying for my silly Geology exam.

I'm glad you said what you did. I agree with all of it. Nintendo does make great first party games. And like you, I am interested in the new controller, but also skeptical, so I will want to try it out first as well (unless of course every game site on the internet rates it a perfect score, i'd have to believe them :) ). And all 3 companies do things that I don't agree with. I'm not sure which one I agree with less, but I do know that i disagree with Sony most. That leaves MS or Nintendo being my personal favs. Not sure which one I like more. But that's not saying I dislike Sony, if that were true I wouldn't have purchased every system they've come out with to date.

[jspeak32]

You, my friend, are my long lost twin. :D

I also own both a DS and PSP. Along with an N-Gage, Neo Geo Pocket, PDA, every old Nintendo system, Every Sega system, (sans Saturn) Jaguar+Cd, and GBA.

Our system collection almost matches!
I have a DS, PSP, PDA, GBA, every sega system (sans 32x), every old Nintendo system (sans virtual boy), and I think I have my neo geo pocket somewhere, but I don't think I ever got it back when me and my ex-girlfriend broke up years ago (that vile creature can have it).
I never did get a Jaguar, but I did want one because I thought Aliens vs. Predator looked really cool...but I think I heard the game sucked though. Do you have it?

[Magnanimous Gnome]

You can get Alien Vs. Predator for the PC, along with the sequel.


Here I am, hours later, and I still have studied for that damn Geology exam. To make matters worse, it's 3am, and I am exhausted. Curse my procrastinating ways!!!!

*shakes fist at mirror*

[Twigz'N'Berries]

This thread was derailed quite nicely. None of you are Allard because he has way more important things to be doing right now. You think that head just shines itself...nope, plenty of carnuba wax must be applied.
As for this being a 'baseless rumor', it is a fact that they had no playable games...how is that anybody's fault but Sony's.

Personally, I really do think Sony will get their games to look similar to the trailers they displayed. The PS3 is vitally important to Sony to help cement the future of Blu-Ray, to move more memory sticks like the PSP does, (I guarantee they will have UMD player or adapter) and make the Cell chip more widely accepted. They realize the importance of the PS3, because some of their other divisions have seen a decline in revenue.

As for Sony not revealing its online ideas, it just makes sense. Anything revolutionary (no pun intended) can be stolen or mimicked by MS or Nintendo. MS could probably easily integrate it into Xbox Live before the PS3 even hits the market.

Lastly, if Sony is going to make their games look like the trailers, it will take longer than March to have them cranked out. If I'm correct, Sony just got/will be getting soon dev kits to their programmers to utilize the SPEs better. I would bank on a June launch (in Japan) at the soonest. Sony will analyze what MS has done and try to implement the good ideas and make sure they don't emmulate MS mistakes.

Oh yeah, Sony has done what they set out to do. Keep the public interested and their name out 'there' prominently while having absolutely nothing to show for it.

[mister_slim]

As for this being a 'baseless rumor', it is a fact that they had no playable games...how is that anybody's fault but Sony's.

Personally, I think the best basis for 'no playable PS3' would be that Sony stated they were waiting until February. I guess that's just not froth inducing enough.

[JazGalaxy]

This thread was derailed quite nicely. None of you are Allard because he has way more important things to be doing right now. You think that head just shines itself...nope, plenty of carnuba wax must be applied.
As for this being a 'baseless rumor', it is a fact that they had no playable games...how is that anybody's fault but Sony's.

Personally, I really do think Sony will get their games to look similar to the trailers they displayed. The PS3 is vitally important to Sony to help cement the future of Blu-Ray, to move more memory sticks like the PSP does, (I guarantee they will have UMD player or adapter) and make the Cell chip more widely accepted. They realize the importance of the PS3, because some of their other divisions have seen a decline in revenue.

As for Sony not revealing its online ideas, it just makes sense. Anything revolutionary (no pun intended) can be stolen or mimicked by MS or Nintendo. MS could probably easily integrate it into Xbox Live before the PS3 even hits the market.

Lastly, if Sony is going to make their games look like the trailers, it will take longer than March to have them cranked out. If I'm correct, Sony just got/will be getting soon dev kits to their programmers to utilize the SPEs better. I would bank on a June launch (in Japan) at the soonest. Sony will analyze what MS has done and try to implement the good ideas and make sure they don't emmulate MS mistakes.

Oh yeah, Sony has done what they set out to do. Keep the public interested and their name out 'there' prominently while having absolutely nothing to show for it.

Sony's games aren't going to look like the trailers because that simply isn't possible. Headtracking in racing games? How is that supposed to work? Even if you mapped your head to the second analog stick, do you know what kind of coordination the average gamer would need for that to work? The animation in the killzone trailer? utter nonsense.

I had to explain this to people during the whole fable/project ego debacle. There are certain concepts that simply do not translate into a videogame environment. You can hear about them, and they will SOUND impiressive, and you will see them, and they will LOOK impressive, but in a game environment they will not BE impressive.

Anybody with a modicum of experiance with how games are put together can look at the killzone trailer and pick out what is true (textures, atmospheric effects) from what is not (animations, scripted events). What you wind up with after that really isn't any more impressive than what we're seeing out of 360.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Personally, I think the best basis for 'no playable PS3' would be that Sony stated they were waiting until February. I guess that's just not froth inducing enough.
I'm going by what I had heard and what I had read.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/tgs/sony-exec-explains-absolutely-nothing-128346.php
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09/28/news_6134592.html
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/29/1643250&tid=212
http://www.gamesradar.com/?pagetypeid=2&articleid=36970&subsectionid=1584
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)nid=20050930094700

All of these sites quote or allude to the fact that Kutaragi said there would be playable games at the TGS...February came later.

I also read that they delayed the February thing too.
http://www.megagames.com/news/html/console/ps3stillanoshow.shtml

Like the caveman on the Geico commercial said, "You may want to do a little research first." Maybe they did say it, but I sure didn't get that update!

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Sony's games aren't going to look like the trailers because that simply isn't possible. Headtracking in racing games? How is that supposed to work? Even if you mapped your head to the second analog stick, do you know what kind of coordination the average gamer would need for that to work? The animation in the killzone trailer? utter nonsense.

I had to explain this to people during the whole fable/project ego debacle. There are certain concepts that simply do not translate into a videogame environment. You can hear about them, and they will SOUND impiressive, and you will see them, and they will LOOK impressive, but in a game environment they will not BE impressive.

Anybody with a modicum of experiance with how games are put together can look at the killzone trailer and pick out what is true (textures, atmospheric effects) from what is not (animations, scripted events). What you wind up with after that really isn't any more impressive than what we're seeing out of 360.
That is why I said 'similar'. Odds are good that they won't look exactly like the trailers shown. Of course, it is all speculation at this point. True, I have no experience making games, but I have seen the technological leaps from PS1 to the Xbox...hell, from early PS2 titles to the ones today. If the Cell processor is anywhere near as powerful as it was hyped, and they have a GPU and pipeline capable of utilizing that power fully, then I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that the games will look similar to the trailers.

[mister_slim]

All of these sites quote or allude to the fact that Kutaragi said there would be playable games at the TGS...February came later.

I also read that they delayed the February thing too.
http://www.megagames.com/news/html/console/ps3stillanoshow.shtml

Like the caveman on the Geico commercial said, "You may want to do a little research first." Maybe they did say it, but I sure didn't get that update!
Here (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=6671). What more do you want? That megagames.com link refers to the same thing. Yeah, they had talked about playable PS3 at TGS. And they decided not to do that.