View Full Version : A Closer Look at Sex in Games
fitbabits
10-26-2005, 07:28 AM
Next Generation (http://www.next-gen.biz) has posted a small interview with veteran game designer Brenda Brathwaite prior to her presentation later today at the Women's Game Conference (http://www.womensgameconference.com/). You can read her thoughts here (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1430&Itemid=2).
But we haven't done a terribly good job of sex in this industry, have we?
"Sex has been used in games successfully for example in Leisure Suit Larry, and the sexiness in God of War is one of the better ways to use sex in a game. Sex has also generated a lot of controversies in games and we have seen problems in getting product to market.
"The problem is we haven't figured out how to show relationships in a game. That makes it really challenging to create good quality stories that include sexual content. We're some way from making a videogame version of the Graduate.
It's refreshing to see an intelligent woman comment on sex in games, rather than the usual male politicians or lobbyists whose concept of sex in games only stretches as far as the letters G, T and A.
DaXIthR
10-26-2005, 07:36 AM
She sounds hot.
I like this a lot, even though I think 'The Graduate' is a pretty weak movie.
I'm really glad there's a Women's Game Conference. Women are great. I love 'em.
Heretic Machine
10-26-2005, 07:49 AM
The problem is we haven't figured out how to show relationships in a game.
Someone might want to notify the Japanese, as they have a whole genre named "Relationship Games." They are boreing as hell too.
Arphahat
10-26-2005, 07:50 AM
It's refreshing to see an intelligent woman comment on sex in games, rather than the usual male politicians or lobbyists whose concept of sex in games only stretches as far as the letters G, T and A.
Heck, can we blame them? I have a hard time keeping my mind off T and A as well. ;)
Kelegacy
10-26-2005, 07:51 AM
She sounds hot.
I like this a lot, even though I think 'The Graduate' is a pretty weak movie.
I'm really glad there's a Women's Game Conference. Women are great. I love 'em.
The Graduate is a weak movie? You (content has been censored because the words Kelegacy used were not fit for human ears).
You blasphemous pig!
Abdiel
10-26-2005, 07:51 AM
Someone might want to notify the Japanese, as they have a whole genre named "Relationship Games." They are boreing as hell too.
>They are boreing (sic) as hell too.
Exactly her point, I think.
fitbabits
10-26-2005, 07:54 AM
Heck, can we blame them? I have a hard time keeping my mind off T and A as well. ;)
Ding ding ding!
Heretic Machine
10-26-2005, 08:04 AM
Exactly her point, I think.
I think that it's pretty much as close as we're going to get without the use of sex-bots :p Relationships + Games = Boreing as Hell. I don't even like having a love-element to books and movies, in games it's just ridiculous most of the time.
The idea is not to have a game about relationships, it's conveying relationships in games. It will enchance a good game, if it's boring it's because the premise of the game is boring. Not the relationships.
fitbabits
10-26-2005, 08:18 AM
In my humble opinion, the relationship between Ico and Yorda is one of the BEST relationships ever portrayed in videogames, both emotionally and from a storytelling perspective.
Kelegacy
10-26-2005, 08:19 AM
In my humble opinion, the relationship between Ico and Yorda is one of the BEST relationships ever portrayed in videogames, both emotionally and from a storytelling perspective.
Shut up, you haven't even beated that 5-6 hour game. What do you know?
Heretic Machine
10-26-2005, 08:21 AM
The idea is not to have a game about relationships, it's conveying relationships in games. It will enchance a good game, if it's boring it's because the premise of the game is boring. Not the relationships.
Bleh, I strongly disagree. Relationships have been done-out in every form of media except games, and you know what, it doesn't matter because you can't convey it any better here. It's gotten to where every movie or book I see has some sort of love sub-plot.
Lon Lon Rabbit
10-26-2005, 08:24 AM
In my humble opinion, the relationship between Ico and Yorda is one of the BEST relationships ever portrayed in videogames, both emotionally and from a storytelling perspective.
Agreed, but I don't really think it's a romantic one, which is probably more what they're reffering to here.
Good call though, that game is probably my favourite PS2 game, and while it has a pretty bare bones story that relationship is very complex and compelling, I hadn't really been able to put my finger on it like that.
Also, I'm not sure the japanese "relationship" games are the kind of image this lady wants to promote of women in games...
fitbabits
10-26-2005, 08:24 AM
Shut up, you haven't even beated that 5-6 hour game. What do you know?
I know that I feel emotionally inested with Ico when playing it. You don't have to beat a game to get emotionally invested. I thought you fo all people would understand that! :)
PIPBoy3000
10-26-2005, 08:36 AM
It was fascinating to me to watch people play through my Neverwinter Nights campaigns (http://adamandjamie.com/nwn/) as relationships were part of the design from the beginning. I got endless feedback about how that one feature set it apart from many of the modules out there. People would start confiding about how they began to cry at certain parts of the game, or feel emotionally close to the characters. While it's easy to claim "man, they're giant nerds", you'll find that most people react similarly to such things in movies, books, and other media.
The key to game design is to draw the players in. At times, it's purely intellectual, such as with puzzle games. Other times it's more visceral, with fear and anger and the joy of vengeance appealing to our baser natures. Sex and romance are certainly up there too. Good designers use all the tools available to them to get the player emotionally attached to the game and it's outcome. Relying on just one is like using only a hammer to fix your toaster.
Roc Ingersol
10-26-2005, 08:36 AM
Heck, can we blame them? I have a hard time keeping my mind off T and A as well. ;)
So you think the G is a myth?
Mrbunchypants
10-26-2005, 08:54 AM
Also, I'm not sure the japanese "relationship" games are the kind of image this lady wants to promote of women in games...
Should be noted that not all games invole just going after women.....
Case and point is in a really good game MGS. Snake and Otcon (sp?) ride off into the sunset is one of the endings.
I will conseed that I have played a few of these "relationship" game. Alot of them have not crossed the ocean because there is not store front to sell them at over here. That to be the biggest reason why no one is makeing them.
If you want more info on some "relationsip" games PM me.
We need more sex in games.
And by sex, I mean gay sex with Cliffy B
/swoon
CliffyB would buy 20 copies!!
Nesta
10-26-2005, 09:09 AM
It was fascinating to me to watch people play through my Neverwinter Nights campaigns (http://adamandjamie.com/nwn/) as relationships were part of the design from the beginning. I got endless feedback about how that one feature set it apart from many of the modules out there. People would start confiding about how they began to cry at certain parts of the game, or feel emotionally close to the characters. While it's easy to claim "man, they're giant nerds", you'll find that most people react similarly to such things in movies, books, and other media.
The key to game design is to draw the players in. At times, it's purely intellectual, such as with puzzle games. Other times it's more visceral, with fear and anger and the joy of vengeance appealing to our baser natures. Sex and romance are certainly up there too. Good designers use all the tools available to them to get the player emotionally attached to the game and it's outcome. Relying on just one is like using only a hammer to fix your toaster.
Yeah, Adam, I will have to say that your modules were one of the few NWN ones that really captured that aspect well. It was a good balance between not too cheesy and not overtly sexual. But then again, most of the characters in your module had more depth to them than your average game, even beyond NWN, which I think helped a lot in that regard. Good stuff, man. I can't wait to see what you brought to the table for NWN2 and/or Dragon Age.
Heretic Machine
10-26-2005, 09:14 AM
Should be noted that not all games invole just going after women.....
Case and point is in a really good game MGS. Snake and Otcon (sp?) ride off into the sunset is one of the endings.
I will conseed that I have played a few of these "relationship" game. Alot of them have not crossed the ocean because there is not store front to sell them at over here. That to be the biggest reason why no one is makeing them.
If you want more info on some "relationsip" games PM me.
I'd like to point out that I'm not talking about Hentai games. That is a subset of Relationship Games. There are plenty of non-hentai Relationship Games in Japan, it's actually a rather big thing there.
AnthraxKitty
10-26-2005, 09:23 AM
What about RPG's? Just about every single one has a love interest. They're predictable, sure, and sometimes groan-inducing (Yuna and Titus), but it's more proof there's more than just GTA.
I still don't think they are at the level they need to be. Games like HL2 are beginning to bridge that gap with all the emotional facial animations that blend into each other seamlessly and naturally. It's not just a matter of story.
Mrbunchypants
10-26-2005, 11:08 AM
I'd like to point out that I'm not talking about Hentai games. That is a subset of Relationship Games. There are plenty of non-hentai Relationship Games in Japan, it's actually a rather big thing there.
LOL thats what I ment. Nice of you to think the worst in people. :p
The fact still remands that there is not alot of store front for these types of games. Over here it more GTA/HL2 and such. Game stores want games that will sell through. Thats how they make there money. If no one buys the game they have a problem hence why very few games have made it over the ocean.
There one of those games release about 6 months back for the DS right??? Forget the name. Anyone remeber or play it?
Neosho
10-26-2005, 11:21 AM
I'm sorry, but this woman seems like she's just regurgitating the same bullshit that everyone spews. "Player to player in massively multiplayer online games is where things are happening, even though they weren't designed with that in mind. There are at least four games dedicated to this in development right now and I would say it's the market to watch."
...oh come fucking on. Does this person actually think for herself? That's pretty much a word for word lift from any exec's who are trying to push the money expenditure for a new mmo. This doesn't even relate to the rest of the article. While it may just be shitty editing on the part of Next Gen, from the way she responds i'm more inclined to think that she's just a moron. I'm rather tired of clueless women keying into videogames as a place to get exposure because they're "teh hawtz0rs".
I mean, come on, i was fucking depressed when aeris got served by sephiroth. Sure, it's not a "sexual relationship", but when you're talking to someone that worked on "Playboy: The Mansion", how fucking seriously can you take them? You want to talk about a game that doesn't exactly encourage relationships between a player and characters.
Basically, some people (this chick) seem to expect basically everything from games. Just like it's unreasonable to expect the doom movie to forge lasting bonds between you and the characters, it's completely unreasonable to assume that you're going to form an emotional bond between you and the characters that you don't even know.
Come on, relationships in playboy: the mansion? :rolleyes:
Rirath
10-26-2005, 02:38 PM
I'd love better use of both relationships and of sex in games. It's ashame sex and sexiness still scares so many people in the gaming industry, and that so many gamers won't even consider a game if it "goes too far". Some of the best examples of use of sex appeal I can think of include DoA, DoA Volleyball, and God of War. Not a long list.
While games like Playboy and other obvious cheap shots lessen the genre, I do think sooner or later we'll start to see more "mature" titles without being adult only. DoA Volleyball is just pure fun, it's a cheap thrill with enough gameplay to make it work. Ever seen the parody of Nintendogs, Nintengirls? Heck, I'd play that!
As games get more and more like movies, I do think certain things will begin to open up. Look at language in games recently, it's becoming more like the R rated movies. Not just GTA either, I was pleasantly surprised and amused when Far Cry Instincts started with "What the F*CK?! M*ther f*ckers!" as his boat gets shot up.
And relationships? I /expect/ relationships in any game of decent length. I don't care, honestly, if the characters get laid or not... but I do want better relationships. ICO, Breath of Fire, Final Fantasy VII, X, X-2, Metal Gear Solid, these things can make a game for me. To this day I love Azure Dreams and Harvest Moon, because while the gameplay is great, the added "dating sim" qualities just really give it depth. It doesn't have to be RPGs or sims though, what about XX/XY? Etc.
Kelegacy
10-26-2005, 02:55 PM
I'd love better use of both relationships and of sex in games. It's ashame sex and sexiness still scares so many people in the gaming industry, and that so many gamers won't even consider a game if it "goes too far". Some of the best examples of use of sex appeal I can think of include DoA, DoA Volleyball, and God of War. Not a long list.
While games like Playboy and other obvious cheap shots lessen the genre, I do think sooner or later we'll start to see more "mature" titles without being adult only. DoA Volleyball is just pure fun, it's a cheap thrill with enough gameplay to make it work. Ever seen the parody of Nintendogs, Nintengirls? Heck, I'd play that!
As games get more and more like movies, I do think certain things will begin to open up. Look at language in games recently, it's becoming more like the R rated movies. Not just GTA either, I was pleasantly surprised and amused when Far Cry Instincts started with "What the F*CK?! M*ther f*ckers!" as his boat gets shot up.
And relationships? I /expect/ relationships in any game of decent length. I don't care, honestly, if the characters get laid or not... but I do want better relationships. ICO, Breath of Fire, Final Fantasy VII, X, X-2, Metal Gear Solid, these things can make a game for me. To this day I love Azure Dreams and Harvest Moon, because while the gameplay is great, the added "dating sim" qualities just really give it depth. It doesn't have to be RPGs or sims though, what about XX/XY? Etc.
Ever played A Thousand Arms for PS1? It's an RPG but your main character is a legacy playboy, and it incorporates dating sims into your game (many of the characters in your party are girls). It's actually pretty interesting, and not too bad a game to boot.
Murmillo
10-26-2005, 05:06 PM
I like sex....
Paltry
10-26-2005, 05:51 PM
She sounds hot.
I like this a lot, even though I think 'The Graduate' is a pretty weak movie.
I'm really glad there's a Women's Game Conference. Women are great. I love 'em.
I think this is the greatest post I have ever read in my life. It is both opinionated annnnd condescending and even just a wee bit chauvanistic. I applaud you my friend. I applaud you.
Paltry
10-26-2005, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by Arphahat
Heck, can we blame them? I have a hard time keeping my mind off T and A as well.
So you think the G is a myth?
WOW oh wow! This is now my most favoritest thread in history. That, sir, was artful to say the very least.
Kelegacy
10-26-2005, 06:52 PM
The G is not a myth. I found it, it's in the anus, the place you'd least expect to find it.
fitbabits
10-26-2005, 08:40 PM
The G is not a myth. I found it, it's in the anus, the place you'd least expect to find it.
So that's why I enjoy wiping my ass so damn much!
ElectricMonk
10-26-2005, 09:41 PM
relationships in games seem best when they are understated, like in ico or half-life 2. otherwise they can get too cheesy too quickly, like the final fantasy series. once it became more than reading it was a bit too much to take for me.
Kelegacy
10-26-2005, 09:46 PM
So that's why I enjoy wiping my ass so damn much!
Oh god.....
Paltry
10-26-2005, 11:20 PM
is it really still only wiping your ass if your all the up to your prostate?
Carnifex
10-27-2005, 04:54 AM
From
A Closer Look at Sex in Games
to
is it really still only wiping your ass if your all the up to your prostate?
I love this forum :D
MosBen
10-27-2005, 11:52 AM
I'd put Grim Fandango up there on the best relationships list.
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