Peter Molyneux - 'You Can Measure Me by Fable II, Flaws and All'

[fitbabits]

Peter Molyneux, during an interview with CVG (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=197136), has admitted that Fable II is not without its faults, citing poor lip synchronization and a sometimes 'fracturing dog'.

"There are low spots in the game and it's no one's fault that these low spots are there, it's just that there's a lot to this game," Molyneux said. "You've got to remember that we're not building a corridor game here where you can say 'right, in one hour fifteen minutes, someone's going see that light and we're going make that light like this.'

"I think the lip-sync is pretty bad, you know, the quality of the animation falls off, you know, quite a lot, I think the navigation can be a bit dodgy sometimes, I think the dog can get a bit fractured sometimes. But those are sideline issues, you're not going to care about those, they're technical issues, and I wish we'd had time to polish every single tiny second of the game."
This is somewhat odd timing, given that Fable II's release is just around the corner. I appreciate that Molyneux is to some extent still trying to atone for the feature-starved Fable, but is he damaging Fable II before it's had a chance to speak for itself?

[bean19]

I want to read the original interview, but even tracking it back it eventually gets attributed to a magazine, which I can't read without purchasing it.

The lack of context really impacts these statements. He also says that he thinks it is a fantastic game and that it fits his expectations 9 out of 10. What he is sharing above are the handful of things that he would like to improve if he had infinite time and money to spend on the game.

[Heretic Machine]

I'd rather have someone be honest to me about a product they're trying to sell, than to just pass it off as pure perfection, as many people try to do with every big release.

[captainstrombosis]

Being honest about the piece of work he's poured his time into for the past few years is something I admire. He gets a lot of flak for being too ambitious but I'll still be buying this game day 1.

[AversionFX]

"I think the lip-sync is pretty bad, you know, the quality of the animation falls off"

That's pretty rough. I imagine the people responsible for those animations are looking for new jobs.

[fitbabits]

I want to read the original interview, but even tracking it back it eventually gets attributed to a magazine, which I can't read without purchasing it.

The lack of context really impacts these statements. He also says that he thinks it is a fantastic game and that it fits his expectations 9 out of 10. What he is sharing above are the handful of things that he would like to improve if he had infinite time and money to spend on the game.

You're right, which is why I avoided going with a more sensationalist headline.

[Demo_Boy]

It's dumb to say negative things about your game a few days before release

[RobotKing]

That's pretty rough. I imagine the people responsible for those animations are looking for new jobs.

Or he just pissed of his animators. Could be a huge dick move if there are a bunch of guys back at the studio that worked really hard and didn't have enough time, or a bunch of unrealistic requests.

[Heretic Machine]

It's dumb to say negative things about your game a few days before release

A month, but who's counting?

[divinechaos]

Respect +1.

He's either telling us that the animations are bad so fool us into thinking when we play the game that they are actually pretty good. Or he's so pissed at his animators that he wants everyone not to hire these guys. Either way I appreciate the honesty and I didn't expect Mass Effect-type lip-synching anyway.

[Inane Gamer]

This has damage control written all over it.

Pre-Damage control = buyer beware...BIG TIME!

[Zecon]

This has damage control written all over it.

Pre-Damage control = buyer beware...BIG TIME!
doubtful.... it may just be him being overcritical of his baby.... we are our own worst critic you know.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I'm actually starting to look forward to this game - not that this particular admission had anything to do with that. Still, I'm starved for a good western-style RPG, and I think that I'll be picking this up right after I get done with the Witcher, whenever that is.

It's great that he came out and admitted these faults, although it would have been nice if he had the time to fix them. Such is the fate of many a game though.

[Inane Gamer]

doubtful.... it may just be him being overcritical of his baby.... we are our own worst critic you know.

I respect Molyneux immensely for what he has given us gamers over the years. But a statement like that just really scares me. All I can think is, "Why in the world would you say something like that?!" Unless somehow you knew you were going to be raked over hot coals at release?

I honestly can't think of any other reason he would make this sort of statement.

[MJBuddy]

In Fable, he spent over a year hyping the game by saying how many features it was going to have. Reviews didn't take that entirely kindly, so going with the exact opposite approach is quite interesting.

Reviewers won't be able to say, "we were promised a perfect game and didn't receive it." Sort of in the way Kevin Smith reviews start with, "Well it's Kevin Smith, so we already know the direction is sub-par; now on to the rest of the review."

[RMan]

I honestly can't think of any other reason he would make this sort of statement.
Howsabout he was asked the question and he answered, honestly? It's a sad state of affairs when anything other than a smokescreen actually scares people.

Even without knowing the context, I don't think this is bad. There's a VERY small number of people that'd read it and be bothered by it, and the most likely result is them saying 'that's not so bad' when they see it. By saying this up front, reviewers are much less likely to be disappointing and harp on those minor quibbles, and in the end the review scores will matter far more than his statements do to the bulk of those researching it.

[Claus DuBois]

It could be just great salesmanship. He points out a few things like this and maybe over emphasizes them and then when people get the game they go, "heck, what was he talking about, I didn't even notice that". The old "under promise and over deliver" strategy.

[divinechaos]

The old "under promise and over deliver" strategy.


Doesn't always work when you ask chicks to have sex with you.

[SPBTooL]

No developer ever feels that their game is 100% done.

[tombofsoldier]

No developer ever feels that their game is 100% done.

Wow came out four years ago, and they're still fixing bugs and balancing things. I'd have to agree with this.

[Rommel]

Maybe he was just misquoted, or poorly communicated his point that his spotty legacy will rest on this title.

[ProfPuppet]

That's pretty rough. I imagine the people responsible for those animations are looking for new jobs.

Animations can be an absolute bitch to do, and are very hard to change at the last minute if dialogue or anything else is changed. Also keep in mind that the lip-synching is dependent on model complexity and how many blending animations they've created- you can have a kickass animator be completely overwhelmed by small things that most people wouldn't ever see as problems.

I'm not excusing any flaw in synching at all, or saying I'm looking forward to this or anything, just... Animators for speech have to come in after the dialogue, code, and models are done. (Though I'm personally cringing at the shots of Silent Hill: Homecoming lipsynching animations and animations in general, not that that really applies to this discussion.)

[Crowe]

Much better than promising the world like he did first time round with the original game. Nothing he said there frightened me in the slightest.

[jpublic]

Jesus Christ, why don't they muzzle him? Every time he opens his mouth it's a disaster.

[Crowe]

Jesus Christ, why don't they muzzle him? Every time he opens his mouth it's a disaster.

You seriously think that's a disaster or are you being sarcastic?

[Tremorlor]

"You've got to remember that we're not building a corridor game here"

So it will be different from Fable 1?

[Rafer]

In Fable, he spent over a year hyping the game by saying how many features it was going to have. Reviews didn't take that entirely kindly, so going with the exact opposite approach is quite interesting.

Fable got 85% (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbx/fable) on metacritic, and was one of the best selling xBox 1 games, so it was both a critical and commercial success. But man do people bitch about the game on message boards. Strange, it's as if the game appealed to all demographics except for people who post a lot on the internet.

[Evil Avatar]

'You Can Measure Me by Fable II, Flaws and All'

Allow me to translate: "Every title we have shipped has been missing the promised features that gamers found most interesting and Fable II is no exception."

[Crowe]

Fable got 85% (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbx/fable) on metacritic, and was one of the best selling xBox 1 games, so it was both a critical and commercial success. But man do people bitch about the game on message boards. Strange, it's as if the game appealed to all demographics except for people who post a lot on the internet.

It took me a second rental before I loved it and purchased it. The first time I played it, I remember thinking, fuck this is bullshit, he hyped and I expected so much more.

After that I took anything a developer said with a grain of salt. He taught me a valuable lesson hah. The original is a great game for sure, I played it over several times, but it was more than a shock to learn that all those awesome things weren't even in the game.

[bean19]

Allow me to translate: "Every title we have shipped has been missing the promised features that gamers found most interesting and Fable II is no exception."
Track back the story. You'll find that he is saying that there are some flaws, but that he felt that he has met his expectations for the project.

[*raoul]

Molyneux's trying to turn over a new leaf, after years of promising the stars and delivering the gutter. Gotta respect that, even if he is being overzealous.

Fable got an 85 on Metacritic--whoopee! Black and White has a 90 (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/blackandwhite?q=black%20and%20white).

[Disgustipated]

I'll be playing this day one. Fable II should hopefully be a great experience, and I think Molyneux's games are always really entertaining. I'd rather have his games that try and innovate than the same old shit.

[Hellstorm]

Sounds a lot like damage control to me. Bad lip sync? I've seen programmers right out of school that could create a tool that could sync lip flap to any wav file regardless of length. Hmmm...

[Winterwolves]

does not bode well...

what this says to me is that everything he thinks sucks about the game is all anyone is going to see in the final product.

[silv]

Buying this one. I liked Fable 1 a lot.

[menage]

After reading the edge preview I'm totally sold on the game. Their experience with the game seemed very positive.

Fuck flaws, perfect games don't exist. Halo 3 had rough graphics, Oblivion had 4 voice actors and stale performance, Gears, had a crap story and linearity, COD4 was too short, NG2 had a crap camera, MGS4 had too much info and was stuck in it's own roots, Mass Effect had lousy load screens, hick-ups and elevators. Did I enoy most of them, hell yes.

Hell even a botched game like TH get's a lot of love here, so I don't see why people are negative beforehand. I loved Fable 1, I wasn't promised anything cause I missed that hypetrain and enjoyed it as one of te best western action rpg's. If it's just as fun and beautyful as that, I'll already be happy. This looks better though, much better.

[Kelegacy]

I just hope this game isn't short. If it is, I'll be ripped. Playing through a short game twice can be fun and all, but when you do that you don't much new (that's just the nature or replaying the same thing twice). Fable 2 was extremely short, so I hope they fixed that issue. An RPG shouldn't take me an afternoon.

[Itchyeyes]

but is he damaging Fable II before it's had a chance to speak for itself?
How about instead of sitting here talking about whether or not Molyneux isn't giving the game a chance to speak for itself, we just, you know, let the game speak for itself. Yeah, Molyneux talks a lot of crap, but that doesn't mean that people have to listen. If people get overly hyped for this game, it's not Molyneux's fault it's their own. Fool me once, shame on you. You me twice, shame on me.

[menage]

Didn't Kojima have a comment like this before MGS4 got out?

[bapenguin]

I respect Molyneux immensely for what he has given us gamers over the years. But a statement like that just really scares me. All I can think is, "Why in the world would you say something like that?!" Unless somehow you knew you were going to be raked over hot coals at release?

I honestly can't think of any other reason he would make this sort of statement.

Maybe because no matter what the product is he knows he'd get eaten alive if he talks positive about it in any sense. The guy simply ADORES his games, he loves every little nook and cranny and he's not afraid to talk about it.

I think he really tried to reel himself in and approach this differently in the hopes the press don't come down hard. It's sort of like reverse psychology. He's beating down expectations now, so when it comes out and beats expectations (I'm not saying it will, i'm just saying his goal) - he looks better for it.

[Primus]

I am not worried about this game being good.

I missed the hype with the first one; picked it up on a whim and loved it.

This game should be more of the same kind of fun.

[Mdot23]

I remember when games didn't have dialogue at all. That didn't bother me too much.

[Telefrog]

I think Peter has learned through some hard lessons over the years that he sometimes has trouble being too effusive about his own games. I imagine this is part of his effort to manage expectations.

I really liked Fable because I went into it with zero preview impressions. I'm pretty sure I'll like Fable II.

[Kelegacy]

Have their been any reports at how long the game might be?

[Flatpicker]

Maybe he was just misquoted, or poorly communicated his point that his spotty legacy will rest on this title.

His legacy is solid based on Populous alone.
Most likely, he's trying to deflate any hype due to the problems people had with Fable. The stuff he is pointing out is trivial. Sync with voices and issues with the dog. Nowhere does he claim features were cut in this quote.

I liked the 1st game, but admit he promised much more than he could deliver.

[Majster Wichajster]

Magic Carpet. Please, we need a new one.

[Mdot23]

Have their been any reports at how long the game might be?

I think I read 12-15 with a straight run through, ignoring side quests, exploration, etc.

[menage]

I think I read 12-15 with a straight run through, ignoring side quests, exploration, etc.

Yeah, double that for everything I heard. And if you're like me, staring at pretty trees, even more:P

[Mdot23]

Yeah, double that for everything I heard. And if you're like me, staring at pretty trees, even more:P

Ha, for real. I love worlds you can just walk around and explore, taking in the environment. I read that Edge preview this morning and it really got me jacked up.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

It took me a second rental before I loved it and purchased it. The first time I played it, I remember thinking, fuck this is bullshit, he hyped and I expected so much more.

After that I took anything a developer said with a grain of salt. He taught me a valuable lesson hah. The original is a great game for sure, I played it over several times, but it was more than a shock to learn that all those awesome things weren't even in the game.


The three games that made me critical of the hype train were Dungeon Keeper 2, Black & White, and Project Ego/Fable. Three IPs that Molyneux created, and two projects that he worked on directly. Coincidence? Ever since those three titles I've been much more wary about getting hyped up for a game, and I take a lot of the pre-release coverage with a grain of salt. I find that I've enjoyed releases more that way. I'm not disappointed that the final product doesn't live up to all the "OMG AWESOME!"

[Magnanimous Gnome]

His legacy is solid based on Populous alone.
Most likely, he's trying to deflate any hype due to the problems people had with Fable. The stuff he is pointing out is trivial. Sync with voices and issues with the dog. Nowhere does he claim features were cut in this quote.

I liked the 1st game, but admit he promised much more than he could deliver.


Agreed. No matter the highs and lows of his last few titles, Molyneux's legacy is definitely sealed for me. His time at Bullfrog was golden. I really miss that team. :(

Magic Carpet 1 & 2, Dungeon Keeper, and Populous 3 gave me many, many hours of enjoyment.

[agentgray]

I believe this is called "damage control"

Excellent. I get the feeling that some things in the game happened beyond his control and he's CYA for it. I guess it happens when you become a developer rock star and consistently fail at expectations.

[Crowe]

I find that I've enjoyed releases more that way. I'm not disappointed that the final product doesn't live up to all the "OMG AWESOME!"

That's how I was before I discovered reviews and forums on the internet. I was into partying and getting hammered, I used to love games more back then because I never delved any further than hiring or buying. Those were the days, I could play any game and get something out of it.

[TheFlyingOrc]

If Molyneaux isn't happy with his game, I'm worried for the rest of us.

[fitbabits]

If Molyneaux isn't happy with his game, I'm worried for the rest of us.

He's unhappy with some parts of it, but he stated that he's immensely proud of what his team has achieved.

[TheFlyingOrc]

He's unhappy with some parts of it, but he stated that he's immensely proud of what his team has achieved.
And he normally doesn't give you that much. His normal behavior is to talk his games up like they'll cure cancer. I think this is worrying.

Peter Molyneux is the George Lucas of game developers. He hasn't been relevant in years, and can only be truly creative when he isn't allowed unrestricted freedom.

[fitbabits]

And he normally doesn't give you that much. His normal behavior is to talk his games up like they'll cure cancer. I think this is worrying.

Peter Molyneux is the George Lucas of game developers. He hasn't been relevant in years, and can only be truly creative when he isn't allowed unrestricted freedom.

Let's look at your first paragraph - it's clear that Peter learned a lot about himself with Fable and the furore that was created when the final game shipped with very many announced features missing. It's to be commended that he's not following the same path he was criticized for with the first game. Let's just wait and see.

Your second paragraph... Boy, you and I are going to have to disagree on that one.

[SPBTooL]

And he normally doesn't give you that much. His normal behavior is to talk his games up like they'll cure cancer. I think this is worrying. You have obviously not been following him much with this game. In just about every interview he states his need to be careful and not get to excited. There are several videos where you can actually see him catching himself and bringing it back down to earth.

One of the first Fable II interviews he promised that he would not talk about a feature unless it was in the game. As far as I know he has not only done that but even been mum on features that are in the game.

EDIT: Fitbabits is a faster typer than I.

[fitbabits]

Also, I was fortunate enough to meet him in person at GDC 2007 and he seemed then to be going out of his way to downplay Fable II, despite what I was seeing on screen at the time.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Let's look at your first paragraph - it's clear that Peter learned a lot about himself with Fable and the furore that was created when the final game shipped with very many announced features missing. It's to be commended that he's not following the same path he was criticized for with the first game. Let's just wait and see.

No, it's only clear if you assume the best of him. I'm going to continue to assume that he doesn't understand how to make a solid core gameplay mechanic, and is too interested in things that are cool sounding rather than good in execution.

Your second paragraph... Boy, you and I are going to have to disagree on that one.
Since 1997, the only games he's made have been Fable, Black & White, and The Movies, plus sequels and spinoffs.

What about him, exactly, makes him relevant anymore?

[SPBTooL]

I just hope this game isn't short. If it is, I'll be ripped. Playing through a short game twice can be fun and all, but when you do that you don't much new (that's just the nature or replaying the same thing twice). Fable 2 was extremely short, so I hope they fixed that issue. An RPG shouldn't take me an afternoon.Once I read through this (http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=593264), most of my worries about replay were gone.

[SPBTooL]

I'm going to continue to assume that he doesn't understand how to make a solid core gameplay mechanic, and is too interested in things that are cool sounding rather than good in execution. I was afraid of that with Fable II also. But the more I've seen/read about it the more it seems that he and his team also learned that there needed to be more focus on the core game play and better story telling. While there allot of features in this game most of them seem to have been brought into the gameplay by the simulation running in the background and not placed in just because it was a cool feature.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

That's how I was before I discovered reviews and forums on the internet. I was into partying and getting hammered, I used to love games more back then because I never delved any further than hiring or buying. Those were the days, I could play any game and get something out of it.


Agreed. I enjoyed games quite a bit more before I spent so much time reading about them online. Back then each game felt like a gem, a new treasure. I remember playing Dungeon Keeper for the first time and knowing absolutely nothing about it. Those were the days. ;)

[TheFlyingOrc]

I was afraid of that with Fable II also. But the more I've seen/read about it the more it seems that he and his team also learned that there needed to be more focus on the core game play and better story telling. While there allot of features in this game most of them seem to have been brought into the gameplay by the simulation running in the background and not placed in just because it was a cool feature.

If the reviews are very high, then I'll probably invest in it. They will have to be VERY high, though - Black and White got pretty decent review scores, and that's just straight up a broken game that doesn't HAVE a core gameplay mechanic.

I'm of the school of thought that you start by figuring out the main way your player will make forward progress through the game, then you add onto that. I feel Peter Molyneux comes up with lots of "cool ideas" and then tries to find a core gameplay mechanic from that. We do not see eye to eye.

[Admiral Ackbar]

If the reviews are very high, then I'll probably invest in it. They will have to be VERY high, though - Black and White got pretty decent review scores, and that's just straight up a broken game that doesn't HAVE a core gameplay mechanic.

I'm of the school of thought that you start by figuring out the main way your player will make forward progress through the game, then you add onto that. I feel Peter Molyneux comes up with lots of "cool ideas" and then tries to find a core gameplay mechanic from that. We do not see eye to eye.
Why is it so rampant that people care about review scores so much (especially the informed gamers that post here). "They can't just be high, they have to be REALLY high!" Gimme a break. Get a gamefly account or a blockbuster card and freaking try the game (or try the demo that I'm sure will be out at some point).

Your first point you say they need to have high review scores and then you point to something that had high review scores but you disliked. This should be your clue that review scores mean 0.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Why is it so rampant that people care about review scores so much (especially the informed gamers that post here). "They can't just be high, they have to be REALLY high!" Gimme a break. Get a gamefly account or a blockbuster card and freaking try the game (or try the demo that I'm sure will be out at some point).

Your first point you say they need to have high review scores and then you point to something that had high review scores but you disliked. This should be your clue that review scores mean 0.

I'll try to stop using past trends to predict future behavior, also known as learning.

I noted that past games from Molyneux seemed to score higher than I would expect given their quality. I believe the reason for Black & White's not awful score is that the game seems pretty good for the first few hours, until you realize that the first level is nearly the only one that's functional. Reviewers don't play more than a few hours.

Reviews don't mean nothing, they are other people giving their opinion of the game. You have to be smart to properly process them. and that's what I'm doing. Because of how my past experience with reviewers on his games, I know that review scores would have to be terribly high to be accurate as applies to me.

[Admiral Ackbar]

I'll try to stop using past trends to predict future behavior, also known as learning.

I noted that past games from Molyneux seemed to score higher than I would expect given their quality. I believe the reason for Black & White's not awful score is that the game seems pretty good for the first few hours, until you realize that the first level is nearly the only one that's functional. Reviewers don't play more than a few hours.

Reviews don't mean nothing, they are other people giving their opinion of the game. You have to be smart to properly process them. and that's what I'm doing. Because of how my past experience with reviewers on his games, I know that review scores would have to be terribly high to be accurate as applies to me.
Unless of course Fable 2 isn't the exact same game as Black and White and the reviewers aren't the exact same group. Might be though.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Unless of course Fable 2 isn't the exact same game as Black and White and the reviewers aren't the exact same group. Might be though.

It's me watching general trends, it's not a law. I need a particularly strong demonstration that my preconceived notions are wrong. No more, no less. I appreciate you categorizing me based on that, though.

[Steele Johnson]

Priorities, priorities. I'm sure there are a lot of really cool things in this game that met his expectations that will make these minor issues something that you'll rarely notice or care about.

[Admiral Ackbar]

It's me watching general trends, it's not a law. I need a particularly strong demonstration that my preconceived notions are wrong. No more, no less. I appreciate you categorizing me based on that, though.
Kind of what happens when you make a blanket statement on a message board. I think I am just uptight about peoples' use of reviews. Too Human gets mediocre adoption based on its metacritic score. I am hoping the same doesn't happen for Fable 2.

[Kelegacy]

Kind of what happens when you make a blanket statement on a message board. I think I am just uptight about peoples' use of reviews. Too Human gets mediocre adoption based on its metacritic score. I am hoping the same doesn't happen for Fable 2.

Too Human's demo turned me off to the game, not the review scores. I also don't think review scores relate into more or less sales. Really bad games sell like crazy. Great games many times don't.

But I agree with you in your frustration, which is sometimes warranted. I played and beat Dark Sector over the weekend and absolutely LOVED it. Some of the best fun I've had in a while. Review scores for it weren't bad, but they weren't overly great either. And that game dropped off the radar completely, which is unfortunate for such a good game. Not revolutionary, not original in it's gameplay (glaive is fucking awesome though), but it has something that makes all that moot: it's damn fun.

And for what it's worth, I doubt Fable 2 will wind up like Too Human. Fable 1 was a best seller, so you really don't need to worry.

[Admiral Ackbar]

Too Human's demo turned me off to the game, not the review scores. I also don't think review scores relate into more or less sales. Really bad games sell like crazy. Great games many times don't.

But I agree with you in your frustration, which is sometimes warranted. I played and beat Dark Sector over the weekend and absolutely LOVED it. Some of the best fun I've had in a while. Review scores for it weren't bad, but they weren't overly great either. And that game dropped off the radar completely, which is unfortunate for such a good game. Not revolutionary, not original in it's gameplay (glaive is fucking awesome though), but it has something that makes all that moot: it's damn fun.

And for what it's worth, I doubt Fable 2 will wind up like Too Human. Fable 1 was a best seller, so you really don't need to worry.
I'm with you all the way. I think the takeaway is that you didn't like Too Human because you played it. Not because it got low reviews. Saying something like "If it doesn't get good reviews, I'm not going to play it" should be dead now due to easy and cheap rental options as well as frequent demo availability.

[impunity5]

There’s also no repetition during our time in the town, not a single line, and Molyneux is keen to emphasise that the 120,000 lines of dialogue have been recorded for precisely this reason.http://www.edge-online.com/magazine/inside-fable-ii?page=0%2C2


I am guessing this might be why the lip-sync is off.

Does anyone know if they lip-sync individually or if it is automated?

[Mason]

No, it's only clear if you assume the best of him. I'm going to continue to assume that he doesn't understand how to make a solid core gameplay mechanic, and is too interested in things that are cool sounding rather than good in execution.
Nonsense. Dungeon Keeper and Populous alone show his strength with gameplay mechanics. Fable actually implemented a ton of great ideas, and it's a shame that everyone's obsessed with the ones on the editing room's floor. Compare the core gameplay of Fable with other contemporary Western console RPGs like KOTOR, and it was comparatively quite well refined.

Black & White was the only legitimately hollow game that he's made, and I think he's already taken his lumps for that one.
Since 1997, the only games he's made have been Fable, Black & White, and The Movies, plus sequels and spinoffs.

What about him, exactly, makes him relevant anymore?
A long career of making quality games.

[Rommel]

Originally Posted by Flatpicker
His legacy is solid based on Populous alone.
Most likely, he's trying to deflate any hype due to the problems people had with Fable. The stuff he is pointing out is trivial. Sync with voices and issues with the dog. Nowhere does he claim features were cut in this quote.

I liked the 1st game, but admit he promised much more than he could deliver.


Agreed. No matter the highs and lows of his last few titles, Molyneux's legacy is definitely sealed for me. His time at Bullfrog was golden. I really miss that team.

Magic Carpet 1 & 2, Dungeon Keeper, and Populous 3 gave me many, many hours of enjoyment.

Populous is almost twenty years old. I had sex with a girl not too long ago who had not been born when it was released. Peter has released a wealth of titles in the more modern eras of gaming, after he was famous, and has been subject to criticism as to his status as a innovative and relevant designer who delivers on his promises. When he tells people to judge him based on his latest release, what else could he be talking about but his legacy?

[SPBTooL]

Games Radar has a real good preview (http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/fable-2/preview/fable-2/a-2008091516058765032/g-20061010115312575037) up and a new interview with Peter (http://www.gamesradar.com/f/interview-peter-molyneux-opens-up-about-fable-2/a-20080917102625140012).
Okay, I fucked some things up in Fable 1. I'm the first to raise my hands and say that. In Fable 1, the number of features was more important to me than what the features did. And as a games designer I've come to realise that it's not the number of features you have, it's the way that those features interact. I've learned a lot from Fable 2.And a snippet from the preview.
Fable 2 doesn't do that. Instead, it manages to pull off the mythical feat of existing in a convincingly multi-faceted world where dark and adult things happen without ruling the entire tone. So while you will come across some seriously dark themes - indeed, a rather unpleasant throwaway conversation near the beginning of the game actually managed to make us feel really uncomfortable - Fable 2 seems to present that sort of material just as it happens in real life. Some really horrible things happen and need to be addressed, but they're just one aspect of a vibrant, living world. Dark material is all the more emotionally affecting when we're not being desensitised to it with constant emo histrionics, and Fable 2 understands that.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Nonsense. Dungeon Keeper and Populous alone show his strength with gameplay mechanics. Fable actually implemented a ton of great ideas, and it's a shame that everyone's obsessed with the ones on the editing room's floor. Compare the core gameplay of Fable with other contemporary Western console RPGs like KOTOR, and it was comparatively quite well refined.

I did not buy into the hype of Fable, and what I've played was boring and shallow. I do not care about the missing features.

Dungeon Keeper was an enjoyable experience, but it's weakest point was its core gameplay mechanic - it was very difficult to lose.

If Miyamoto's last significant contribution to gaming was Donkey Kong, I would call him irrelevant, as well.


A long career of making quality games.
Populous and mediocrity.

[SilentScreams]

I picked up Fable and both Black & White 1 & 2 without ever reading a review, and to see that they were both pretty much torn apart on the internet was a hell of a surprise to me.
I enjoyed both games a lot. Imagine my surprise when the internet told me I was wrong! :rolleyes:

Fable 2 is a day 1 purchase for me, as I've never not had fun with a Peter Molyneux game.
He strikes me as somebody who cares about his games. And I mean genuinely cares. He takes their success and failure straight to his heart. This is the type of developer I want to support. There aren't many around.
He's very ambitious, and again, this is the type of guy I'll support. Without ambition, we'd never see anything new. For better or for worse, Peter Molyneux will always try to do new and interesting things and I for one think we should encourage it.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I picked up Fable and both Black & White 1 & 2 without ever reading a review, and to see that they were both pretty much torn apart on the internet was a hell of a surprise to me.
I enjoyed both games a lot. Imagine my surprise when the internet told me I was wrong! :rolleyes:

Did you finish Black and White?

[Talon-]

I enjoyed Black & White. Black & White 2? Not so much.

[SilentScreams]

Did you finish Black and White?

No, but I can count the number of games I actually finish in a year on one hand.
I get sidetracked easily. :D

[TheFlyingOrc]

No, but I can count the number of games I actually finish in a year on one hand.
I get sidetracked easily. :D
That's fine. The problem is, NOBODY finishes Black and White, because after the first level or two, you get bored with it and drift away. The fifth (and final) level is just plain broken.

I understand having some fun with the game - it provides a few hours of entertainment. However, the sucker is fundamentally broken if you try to advance.

[Rommel]

That's fine. The problem is, NOBODY finishes Black and White, because after the first level or two, you get bored with it and drift away. The fifth (and final) level is just plain broken.

I understand having some fun with the game - it provides a few hours of entertainment. However, the sucker is fundamentally broken if you try to advance.

This is Peter's legacy today. Not Dungeon Keeper, not Magic Carpet and no, not 1989's Populous.