HP Throws Curveball into Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Format War [Archive]

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bapenguin

10-20-2005, 06:27 AM

One day after analysts predicted Blu-Ray the winner (http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2005-10-19T170235Z_01_ARM961143_RTRIDST_0_TECH-MEDIA-BLURAY-DC.XML&archived=False) of the next generation format wars, HP has decided to mix things up a bit. Hewlett-Packard is a long time backer of the Blu-Ray format, but thanks to recent backing of HD-DVD by Intel and Microsoft, HP wants to see some new features in Blu-Ray.

The world's No. 2 computer maker asked the makers of Blu-ray to include two technologies in its specifications now supported by HD-DVD. One is known as mandatory managed copy, allowing users to copy high-definition movies onto PCs from discs and distribute them on home networks.

HP also asked Blu-ray to support a feature called iHD, which provides for new interactive features and is slated to be implemented in Microsoft's new Windows Vista operating system.
Yahoo has more on the story. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051020/tc_nm/media_hp_dc)

Closer yet to a unified format? With all the recent happenings maybe it's time for HD-DVD to concede, Blu-Ray to adopt these features and be gone with this silly format war.

NoName

10-20-2005, 06:31 AM

Closer yet to a unified format? With all the recent happenings maybe it's time for HD-DVD to concede, Blu-Ray to adopt these features and be gone with this silly format war.
That's so not a corporate way to think about this Bap! How will they end up screwing over the consumer by doing that?
Well, unless they merge the formats and then fix the price with a really high markup o.0

AspectVoid

10-20-2005, 06:46 AM

That's so not a corporate way to think about this Bap! How will they end up screwing over the consumer by doing that?
Well, unless they merge the formats and then fix the price with a really high markup o.0

The next-gen format could just be the new CDs. You know, where they charge 15 to 20 times the cost to make the thing. It would make sense, I think. It'd probably take a decade or two for the masses to even figure it out.

XenonCJ

10-20-2005, 06:50 AM

Since HDDVD is what MS will use, that is what the world will use.

Blu-Ray will be Sony's next MiniDisc.

bapenguin

10-20-2005, 06:57 AM

Since HDDVD is what MS will use, that is what the world will use.

Blu-Ray will be Sony's next MiniDisc.

Maybe...it's a bit different this time. Sony has A LOT of backing in the movie and technology sectors.

NoName

10-20-2005, 07:00 AM

Maybe...it's a bit different this time. Sony has A LOT of backing in the movie and technology sectors.
I wonder if it'll end up with us buying movies in one format and our new highend games in another...

TrackZero

10-20-2005, 07:09 AM

Closer yet to a unified format? With all the recent happenings maybe it's time for HD-DVD to concede, Blu-Ray to adopt these features and be gone with this silly format war.

Heh, or we can see the rest of Blu-ray telling HP to fuck off and HP switching teams completely. Things could just as easily escalate.

Rakael

10-20-2005, 07:10 AM

I wish they would just merge already before I have to start leaving flaming bags on doorsteps.

Stormwatcher

10-20-2005, 07:11 AM

or maybe not.

Kelegacy

10-20-2005, 07:42 AM

I think more features would be a GREAT thing for any media. I'm rooting for Blu-Ray, but I like software/hardware companies taking an active role in this.

If we use one format for movies and one for games, I don't give a rat's ass.

Rakael

10-20-2005, 08:06 AM

Me either Kelegacy, so long as we don't have two formats for movies I'm happy.

emperordahc

10-20-2005, 08:26 AM

total

10-20-2005, 08:29 AM

One is known as mandatory managed copy, allowing users to copy high-definition movies onto PCs from discs and distribute them on home networks.

Sony actually supporting consumer friendly technology, I don't believe it for a minute. I am done with Sony formats. MD was a flop, yes I owned one of the old school recordable players and one of the newer handheld players. UMD is flopping. The access time is absolutely horrible with this technology. Try to fast forward on a UMD to the middle or so of a movie, it just plain sucks. Sony is just starting to release half decent mp3 players, a market that they should have dominated before Apple had a chance to set foot in the door. Poor design coupled with their shitty ATRAC DRM laden crap format equals jack for sales. Come on Sony, you came out with the fucking Walkman, you are better then the shit you are throwing out there now. Eh, I could go into it further but I am just exausted on this paticular subject.

Rakael

10-20-2005, 08:39 AM

Speaking of walkmans, I saw a picture recently of a kiosk set up in Tokyo taken back in the 80's. The man was literally fighting for space with all of the walkmans he had crammed into that little booth. Wish I could find it again, it was a pretty cool picture.

Slack3r78

10-20-2005, 08:40 AM

Since HDDVD is what MS will use, that is what the world will use.

Blu-Ray will be Sony's next MiniDisc.

MS and Intel are about the only high-tech companies *not* backing the BDA. They're a big player, yes, but this is a fight much larger than even Microsoft and Intel.

XenonCJ

10-20-2005, 09:12 AM

MS and Intel are about the only high-tech companies *not* backing the BDA. They're a big player, yes, but this is a fight much larger than even Microsoft and Intel.Uhm wrong... :

TOKYO, Aug 23 (Reuters)
Toshiba, along with NEC Corp. (6701.T: Quote (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/overview.aspx?symbol=6701.T), Profile (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/CompanyProfile.aspx?symbol=6701.T), Research (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/ResearchReports.aspx?symbol=6701.T)) and Sanyo Electric Co. (6764.T: Quote (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/overview.aspx?symbol=6764.T), Profile (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/CompanyProfile.aspx?symbol=6764.T), Research (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/ResearchReports.aspx?symbol=6764.T)), has been promoting HD DVD, while Sony and Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. (6752.T: Quote (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/overview.aspx?symbol=6752.T), Profile (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/CompanyProfile.aspx?symbol=6752.T), Research (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/ResearchReports.aspx?symbol=6752.T)), the maker of Panasonic brand products, have been developing a technology known as Blu-ray.

Full article: http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nT197333

I guess Toshiba, NEC, and Sanyo arn't "high-tech"??

CrysDark

10-20-2005, 09:17 AM

Are not those three companies the founders of HD-DVD?

Snowcone

10-20-2005, 09:22 AM

Neither side is going to concede and give in to the other. If that was going to happen, it would have already happened. I personally want to see HD-DVD win out just because I don't like Sony controlling anything. I think they make retarded decisions and I think the other tech firms keeping Sony in check is a smart move.

saran_js

10-20-2005, 09:39 AM

Ernst_Jager

10-20-2005, 10:20 AM

I think they both will fail in the long run. With the ever increasing ability to download media from the internet and faster broadband connections. I think stores like iTunes with
their video will probably be the real new next gen HD content of choice.

Xerxes

10-20-2005, 10:47 AM

KNOTE

10-20-2005, 10:52 AM

To me, adopting Blu-Ray makes almost no sense. It's a more complicated format, and the storage gains aren't significant enough to justify the cost.

Kelegacy

10-20-2005, 10:54 AM

Sony should concede for now. Double dip us to hell in 10 years when Blu-Ray is further along. Faster and with some added features. Sure it's still going to cost alot for everyone to switch to BR in time but HD-DVDs would be cheaper to move on to and it's a quick step. I'd rather a quick shift instead of waiting 2 or 3 years until BR players are cheap enough to purchase and the library is at a decent size.

BR players will be dirt cheap to purchase--just buy a PS3. You get a PS1, PS2, PS3, DVD player and BR player all in one. I'd say that's a pretty good deal. The BR player is essentially free.

bapenguin

10-20-2005, 11:08 AM

BR players will be dirt cheap to purchase--just buy a PS3. You get a PS1, PS2, PS3, DVD player and BR player all in one. I'd say that's a pretty good deal. The BR player is essentially free.

Unless the PS3 launches at 500. ;)

Personally, I think both formats are going to tank, there's just no point yet.

Phades

10-20-2005, 11:37 AM

Unless the PS3 launches at 500. ;)

Personally, I think both formats are going to tank, there's just no point yet.

There may be no point, but things like this may help them sell more HD TV's and then there WILL be a point. Right now, many people may not really see the benefit of going with a High Def set. A movie format that actually supports them and looks fantastic will be one more selling point that may convince them. If this helps move more TV's and they become more common, Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will want to be the ones to have the format that is considered standard. "You have an HDTV, you need a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player."

Xerxes

10-20-2005, 11:46 AM

What the hell would I want a Ps3 for? I'm still waiting until E3 2007 so they can show what the damn thing has to offer as far as gameplay goes.

Kelegacy

10-20-2005, 11:55 AM

What the hell would I want a Ps3 for? I'm still waiting until E3 2007 so they can show what the damn thing has to offer as far as gameplay goes.

Oh, that's right, I forgot. You are a system hater, my bad.

Royal Fool

10-20-2005, 12:01 PM

BR players will be dirt cheap to purchase--just buy a PS3. You get a PS1, PS2, PS3, DVD player and BR player all in one. I'd say that's a pretty good deal. The BR player is essentially free.

You mean like the quality built-to-last DVD player that is the PS2? [/sarcasm]

I won't be investing in either one of those formats... but I'm leaning more towards HD-DVD.

Xerxes

10-20-2005, 12:36 PM

No I'm not a system hater. I'm still on the basis of it has shown nothing therefore not interested. I gave up on MGS after the first(which was one of my all time favorites) on PS. I also like the gp of Splinter Cell more.

Kelegacy

10-20-2005, 01:40 PM

You mean like the quality built-to-last DVD player that is the PS2? [/sarcasm]

I won't be investing in either one of those formats... but I'm leaning more towards HD-DVD.

My PS2 DVD player still works, and it's the only DVD player in my living room, so I don't know what you mean.

Melonman0

10-20-2005, 01:59 PM

WTF with that stupid IHD crap. Implementing iHD in tothe BD spec. is only going to make it more expensive. Why ? Because we as endusers are going to end up paying Microsoft royalties. F**k it, I ain't paying MS any more than I have to.
HP can go screw themselves.

Sony is currently using Sun's java technology, so you will be paying Sun royalties instead of MS. What's the difference?

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

10-20-2005, 02:20 PM

I'd rather a quick shift instead of waiting 2 or 3 years until BR players are cheap enough to purchase and the library is at a decent size.

HD DVD hardware won't be any cheaper to manufacture than Blu-ray hardware. The difference comes in the cost of the media, and even that gap is narrowing. And you'd have to wait 2 or 3 years for the library to reach a decent size no matter what -- it's not like there's a huge library of HD DVD titles already out there.

Twigz'N'Berries

10-20-2005, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by saran_js
WTF with that stupid IHD crap. Implementing iHD in tothe BD spec. is only going to make it more expensive. Why ? Because we as endusers are going to end up paying Microsoft royalties. F**k it, I ain't paying MS any more than I have to.
HP can go screw themselves.

Another MS hater.
Anyway, BR uses an MS codec so, they will get royslties. Personally, I'm not sure how Sony can be ready to launch if so much about BR is up in the air. Maybe it will only take them 4 months or so. Yeah.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

10-20-2005, 03:19 PM

AFAIK Sony doesn't plan to have Blu-ray products (or more accurately products based on the finalized Blu-ray spec, since products based on non-finalized Blu-ray tech have been available for some time) on the market until next spring. I doubt they're going to switch to iHD at this point but the managed-copy scheme MS/Intel/HP want is possible within the AACS spec, so it wouldn't be too difficult to implement.

Kelegacy

10-20-2005, 03:49 PM

Another MS hater.
Anyway, BR uses an MS codec so, they will get royslties. Personally, I'm not sure how Sony can be ready to launch if so much about BR is up in the air. Maybe it will only take them 4 months or so. Yeah.

I think some people hate Microsoft because it's so damned hard to avoid them in the software market. If you own a PC and want to play the best games, you have to own Windows. Most PC's come preinstalled with the MS stuff, too. With consoles, it's easier, but who knows for how long. Granted, there are always choices, but they are slim and aren't supported by many companies yet. Linux (and other OS's) and Mac users get shafted when it comes to gaming and only the most popular games get ported. This makes people angry, and justly so.

TheBrainKills

10-20-2005, 03:49 PM

Unless the PS3 launches at 500. ;)

Personally, I think both formats are going to tank, there's just no point yet.

Bap don't you own a HD projection unit? Don't you want 720p or 1080i movies?
Granted the 480p does look fine but why not have what your system is capable of standard.

Quazl

10-20-2005, 05:05 PM

iHD is better in my opinin because creating menus and such with XML is going to be much easier then with Java.

XML is the language of the internet so making awesome menus and such for HD-DVD is better.

IMHO, the only reason that Blu-Ray is better is because it will eventually have a bigger size. 20 gigs is just fine for Hidef movies and HDDVD is 30.

I want whatever is cheaper and the format that will give me the most contol over.

mister_slim

10-20-2005, 05:31 PM

Hey! Did nobody catch this?

One is known as mandatory managed copy, allowing users to copy high-definition movies onto PCs from discs and distribute them on home networks.

Copy it to your PC and then use some sort of client side protection? That's also known as "hacker backdoor alley" for busting copy protection. Thanks for the next best thing to "free ticket town".

Geeze, these people are foolish.
'These people" (MS, Intel, HP) aren't invested in entertainment IP, so they're pushing for what will sell their products. Of course, the IP owners are a little paranoid, so some of them are moving to BR. I still haven't seen anything on how managed copy will work with rentals.

bobbler

10-20-2005, 05:54 PM

Uhm wrong... :

TOKYO, Aug 23 (Reuters)
Toshiba, along with NEC Corp. (6701.T: Quote (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/overview.aspx?symbol=6701.T), Profile (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/CompanyProfile.aspx?symbol=6701.T), Research (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/ResearchReports.aspx?symbol=6701.T)) and Sanyo Electric Co. (6764.T: Quote (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/overview.aspx?symbol=6764.T), Profile (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/CompanyProfile.aspx?symbol=6764.T), Research (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/ResearchReports.aspx?symbol=6764.T)), has been promoting HD DVD, while Sony and Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. (6752.T: Quote (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/overview.aspx?symbol=6752.T), Profile (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/CompanyProfile.aspx?symbol=6752.T), Research (http://today.reuters.com/stocks/ResearchReports.aspx?symbol=6752.T)), the maker of Panasonic brand products, have been developing a technology known as Blu-ray.

Full article: http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nT197333

I guess Toshiba, NEC, and Sanyo arn't "high-tech"??

Surely you've done a bit more research than that... NEC (very recently they joined; one of many recent slaps in HD-DVDs face) and Sanyo are both in the Blu-ray Association.

Along with Matsushita (Panasonic, JVC, etc) is Samsung, Sharp, LG, Pioneer, Thomson, Mitsubishi, etc... that's just the major players on the board. When comparing support between the two companies it paints a pretty grim picture for HD-DVD -- regardless of what MS "prefers" (and its pretty obvious why they prefer it).

In addition to that, recently all but Universal has pledged support to BR (Warner is supposed to official announce in the next couple days), and Universal is expected to follow Paramount/Warner in this move (they'll still support HD-DVD, but this kills HD-DVDs exclusive studio support).

Anyone whos paid any amount of attention to the situation between BR and HD-DVD can see that there is a landslide of support in BR's favor (a lot of which just came in the last month) -- Originally it was pretty equal on the studio front, and in favor of BR on the other fronts, but now its in Blu-ray's hands.

-----

About the managed Copies deal -- it is mandatory to offer it (on HD-DVD, optional on BR) but it is also optional for companies to charge for the copy ability.

iHD is arguable in whether its better or not -- a menu system is only going to take a few hours at most to do anyways, iHD may be quicker, but the time spent is insignificant in the long run -- the Java also offers a lot more freedom in what they can do, but since it is a full blow langauge it isn't necessarily going to be as quick as a personalized one. Freedom or Speed?

Edit:

Looks like Warner announced it today (http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/051020/206035.html?.v=1) -- that leaves Universal alone in support... Who wants to bet on how long it takes for them to join as well?

saran_js

10-20-2005, 06:22 PM

Sony is currently using Sun's java technology, so you will be paying Sun royalties instead of MS. What's the difference?

Well, better Sun than Microsoft. It's a lesser of two evils.

Java is a more versatile tool compared to iHD.

As for space, when is enough of it enough ? There will always be the problem of not enough space, and users as well as IP holders will demand a media with higher capacity sooner or later.

XenonCJ

10-21-2005, 04:32 PM

Surely you've done a bit more research than that... NEC (very recently they joined; one of many recent slaps in HD-DVDs face) and Sanyo are both in the Blu-ray Association.

Along with Matsushita (Panasonic, JVC, etc) is Samsung, Sharp, LG, Pioneer, Thomson, Mitsubishi, etc... that's just the major players on the board. When comparing support between the two companies it paints a pretty grim picture for HD-DVD -- regardless of what MS "prefers" (and its pretty obvious why they prefer it).

In addition to that, recently all but Universal has pledged support to BR (Warner is supposed to official announce in the next couple days), and Universal is expected to follow Paramount/Warner in this move (they'll still support HD-DVD, but this kills HD-DVDs exclusive studio support).

Anyone whos paid any amount of attention to the situation between BR and HD-DVD can see that there is a landslide of support in BR's favor (a lot of which just came in the last month) -- Originally it was pretty equal on the studio front, and in favor of BR on the other fronts, but now its in Blu-ray's hands.

-----

About the managed Copies deal -- it is mandatory to offer it (on HD-DVD, optional on BR) but it is also optional for companies to charge for the copy ability.

iHD is arguable in whether its better or not -- a menu system is only going to take a few hours at most to do anyways, iHD may be quicker, but the time spent is insignificant in the long run -- the Java also offers a lot more freedom in what they can do, but since it is a full blow langauge it isn't necessarily going to be as quick as a personalized one. Freedom or Speed?

Edit:

Looks like Warner announced it today (http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/051020/206035.html?.v=1) -- that leaves Universal alone in support... Who wants to bet on how long it takes for them to join as well?We'll see.... Microsoft doesn't fuck around.

Kelegacy

10-21-2005, 04:40 PM

We'll see.... Microsoft doesn't fuck around.

Snuff out those candles on your Microsoft altar before you burn yourself.

XenonCJ

10-21-2005, 05:08 PM

Snuff out those candles on your Microsoft altar before you burn yourself.Sure - right after you take off your penguin suit.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

10-22-2005, 12:02 AM

We'll see.... Microsoft doesn't fuck around.

That's kinda what they're doing, though. They knew Warner Bros. was going to back Blu-ray and they knew as soon as that announcement was made HD DVD's days would be numbered. The MS/Intel announcement (of support for HD DVD) was deliberately timed to head off the Warner announcement in an attempt to wring one last bit of leverage over Blu-ray before the format war became a fait accompli. At best they'll be half-successful -- they may get their managed copy scheme, but iHD? No way. In any event they never intended to seriously back HD DVD and never committed themselves to supporting that format in any concrete way. It's just rhetoric. That said, it's probably not accurate to say they're "fucking around" -- they've just run out of options and there's nothing more meaningful they can do at this point.

mister_slim

10-22-2005, 02:52 PM

Sure - right after you take off your penguin suit.
I've never seen him in his penguin suit. Kelegacy, have you been running around on me? Is that where you are every night, wearing your penguin suit?

We're through.

Kelegacy

10-22-2005, 03:16 PM

I've never seen him in his penguin suit. Kelegacy, have you been running around on me? Is that where you are every night, wearing your penguin suit?

We're through.

I seem to have caught the eye of the fruity crowd here on EvAv. Fitbabits, Kefkataran, yourself and countless others...though I guess this is a life lesson: If you rub honey all over your genitals in the middle of the forest, don't be surprised when bears come a-calling.

Or maybe we're all just extremely sexually secure. Yeah, that's it.