Evil Avatar's Weekly Comic Book Reviews - Week 33

[Everlost_MI]

Welcome to week thirty-two of Evil Avatar’s Weekly Comic Book Reviews.

The Evil Avatar’s Comic Book Review Weekly giveaway for week thirty-three is Nick Fury’s Howling Commandos #1 courtesy of BCBcomics (http://www.bcbcomics.com/). The deadline for entry submissions for week thirty-three is Sunday, October 23rd. The selection of the random winner for the October books will occur on Sunday October 30th. Click here (everlost_mi@evilavatar.com) to submit your entry and don’t forget to include your Evil Avatar screenname. Remember, you can submit one entry each week to increase your chances of winning.

The list of books that are going to be given away for the month of October are:

· Captain America #10
· Cable & Deadpool #20
· Goon 25 cent comic (A reprint of Goon #1)
· Nick Fury’s Howling Commandos #1

If you’re tired of missing out on your regular or new comics then you’re in need of a reliable comic book subscription provider. Evil Avatar’s Comic Book Review Weekly giveaway provider, BCBcomics (http://www.bcbcomics.com/) offers comic book subscriptions (http://www.bcbcomics.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=7</p><p style=) with many fringe benefits including no hidden costs, 20% off of cover price, all issues are bagged and boarded PLUS free* shipping for orders over $14.99 and cheap* shipping for orders under $14.99 (*see BCBcomics’ website (http://www.bcbcomics.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=7</p><p style=) for the details).

Remember, these are NOT spoiler-free reviews.

The books that have been reviewed are Infinite Crisis #1, Ex Machina #15 and House of M #7

http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/infinitecrisis1.jpg http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/exmachina15.jpg http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/hom7.jpg

[Everlost_MI]

Week Thirty-three:

Infinite Crisis #1 of 7
Publisher: DC Comics
Writer: Geoff Johns
Penciller: Phil Jimenez
Inker: Andy Lanning
Colorists: Jeremy Cox & Guy Major
Letterer: Nick J. Napolitano
Editor: Eddie Berganza
Price: $3.99 US/$5.50 CAN

http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/infinitecrisis1.jpg

The culmination DC’s Universe-wide event, Infinite Crisis has finally arrived with an enormous amount of action, excitement and surprises. If you want the skinny of what has happened so far, check out the detailed posting (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6046) by fellow Evil Avatar reader Kefkataran. I am not going to provide any spoilers in this review because the issue is truly worth reading yourself. The last panel is a bit odd for those who haven’t followed the DC Universe closely but an article ( http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=46268) at Newsarama ( http://www.newsarama.com/) can help fill in those blanks but be warned the article is peppered with heavy spoilers for those who have yet to read this inital issue.

This first issue packs a wallop with Geoff Johns’ excellent characterization, dialogue and pacing as it sucks you right in with cliffhangers and drama in almost every other page. This story is accessible to those who have not read any of the issues building up to this event. The artwork by Phil Jimenez and Andy Lanning is filled with great levels of detail and action as the pages drip with action. The colorists, Jeremy Cox and Guy Major did a phenomenal job depicting the pure energy and the shroud of darkness covering the DC Universe with this event.

Bottom Line:
This issue is worth the time and money if you are looking for a series that is full of action and drama while making drastic changes to the face and heart of the DC Universe.

9/10


Ex Machina #15 (An ongoing series)
Publisher: DC/Wildstorm Comics
Writer: Brian K. Vaughan
Penciller: Tony Harris
Inker: Tom Feister
Colorist: Jo Mettler
Letterer: Jared K. Fletcher
Editor: Ben Abernathy
Price: $2.99 US/$4.00CAN

http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/exmachina15.jpg

This issue takes a break from the various plots and subplots of the past fourteen issues and deals with Mayor Hundred’s mother and her secret about his father’s death. The issue flies by too fast but tosses a bit more of The Machine’s adventures in the first few pages, just enough to tease.

Brian K. Vaughan has again created another issue of great dialogue and characterization. The pacing seemed a bit off as it took quite a few pages to complete the first arc of this story. Tony Harris’ cover and interior artwork is vibrant and adds to Vaughan’s storytelling.

Bottom Line:
If you aren’t reading this series, you should be. At least pick up the first TPB, it’s worth the time and money. The series could be best described as an edgier superhero offshoot of NBC’s West Wing.

8/10

House of M #7 of 8
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Writer: Brian Michael Bendis
Pencils: Olivier Coipel
Inkers: John Dell, Scott Hanna and Tom Townsend
Colors: Frank D'Armata with Paul Mounts
Letters: Chris Eliopoulos
Cover artists: Esad Ribic (regular) & Salvador Larrocca, Danny Miki & Liquid! (variant)
Editor: Tom Brevoort
Price: $2.99 US/$4.25 CAN

http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/hom7.jpg

Seven issues later and it’s finally revealed during an all out brawl what happened to Xavier and who helped Wanda reshape reality. A short lived bit involving Hawkeye trying to extract some revenge Dr. Strange inquiring about the death/rebirth of Magento were the highlights of the issue before the whole Marvel Universe got hit by Wanda’s reset button. The promise regarding the reset button used on the mutants in the Marvel Universe has been laid down by Editor-In-Chief, Joe Quesada and can be read here ( http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JoeFridays21.html ) at Newsarama. ( http://www.newsarama.com/) It sounds promising but as a twenty-year comic veteran I’ll believe it when I see it.

Brian Michael Bendis has orchestrated this Marvel Universe wide crossover event and unfortunately it’s seems like he’s really trying to stretch it, especially in this issue. The pacing is slow but the dialogue that is Bendis’ strengthen was excellent. The artwork created by Oliver Coipel is enjoyable but some of the panel layout and battle scenes were muddied and confusing.

Bottom Line:
If you’ve been reading the miniseries so far, you’ve got to buy this. If you’ve been watching the event from afar or leafing through the issues at your comic shop then keep doing so.

5/10

What else is worth reading this week…
· Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #1 – Yet another Spider-Man title that starts another multi-title crossover event. Sounds bleak doesn't it? However Peter David and Mike Wieringo deliever a goregous and entertaining issue.

Thanks to Kefkataran for his Infinite Crisis synopsis and Newsarama ( http://www.newsarama.com/) for the Infinite Crisis (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=46268) and Joe Quesada (http://www.newsarama.com/JoeFridays/JoeFridays21.html ) articles.

The Evil Avatar’s Comic Book Review Weekly giveaway for week thirty-three is Nick Fury’s Howling Commandos #1 courtesy of BCBcomics (http://www.bcbcomics.com/). The deadline for week thirty-three entry submissions is Sunday, October 23rd.

If you’re tired of missing out on your regular or new comics then you’re in need of a reliable comic book subscription provider. Evil Avatar’s Comic Book Review Weekly giveaway provider, BCBcomics (http://www.bcbcomics.com/) offers comic book subscriptions (http://www.bcbcomics.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=7
) with many fringe benefits including no hidden costs, 20% off of cover price, all issues are bagged and boarded PLUS free* shipping for orders over $14.99 and cheap* shipping for orders under $14.99 (*see BCBcomics’ website (http://www.bcbcomics.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=7
) for the details).

Click here (everlost_mi@evilavatar.com) to submit your entry and don’t forget to include your Evil Avatar screenname.

Remember, you can submit one entry per week to increase your chances of winning.

[Savok]

Broken link to Kef's post on IC.

[Everlost_MI]

Broken link to Kef's post on IC.
Fixed!

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[Heretic Machine]

Both Infinite Crisis and HoM #7 were excellent reads for me.

[Cupelix]

As a long time X-Men reader, I'm intrigued to see the fallout of HoM now. I don't keep up with most comic book news and rumors, but I didn't see the final frames of HoM #7 coming. Apparently this is meant to fix one of the large things about the Marvel U that has been nagging Joe Quesada. Maybe X-Books will start to suck less in the aftermath.

[Heretic Machine]

I think it may be a serious problem, personally. Mutants were making progress, now the progress has been erased. I think it's a step backwards. An enjoyable read, but not something I wanted to happen.

[AgtFox]

I'm not a big fan of JoeQ. For every good idea that comes out of his head there are 3 that fall flat. I'm glad the mutant landscape is going to change, but like Everlost I am hesitant to get excited given how much things can turn on a dime at Marvel. Once JoeQ is gone (can't come soon enough!) who's to say things won't revert back?
Brian Michael Bendis has somewhat redeemed himself with House of M (although the closing panels in #7 are as confusing as those at the end of #1). His last "big event" was horrid (Avengers Disassembled) AND he has the gall to kill Clint Barton (Hawkeye) again in House of M? Sheesh, guess he wants to make sure he's dead with no question from the readers.

I am more excited about Infinite Crisis, but I am prepared for a downer as well. There's still a large continuity gap that I'm not sure how Johns is going to adapt to it. I'd explain it here, but it may be too spoilerish.

[Xerxes]

Is Infinite Crisis like one of those, DC changing events. Like the Superman I thought I knew is going to get a brand new origin and other odd stuff.

[DjinniMan]

I grew up on comics in the late 70s and 80s. I was a hard core Marvel only guy, until the late 80s and early 90s when I added DC to my lists. Anyway, the best part about comics back then, especially the Marvel ones, was the continuity between titles. Remember in Thor when the earth froze over, and the other heroes showed up to help? The same events in ALL Marvel titles. You could tell that the editors and/or writers got together and planned it all out. This was a real strength of Marvel at the time. DC tried to reboot to fix stuff, too, but since not all titles were on board with the idea, it made a big mess, and so we had Zero Hour, Hypertime, etc.

My one hope with HoM and IC is that both publishers start clean and keep it clean, so we see the same events in seperate books again. Just recently, wasn't Asgard moved over New York City in Thor, and yet in all other titles, this was ignored? That's the kind of thing I hate. I'm all for a wipe and reboot of each universe, as long as we get some consistency in the future.

I'd suggest that the reason Batman has acted like a jerk, Superman has been wishy-washy, and Wonder Woman has become a hardnose is because they knew this was coming. I personally hope they combine the Ultimate and "classic" Marvel universes, too. I'd love to see the classic Captain America beat the crap out of Ultimate Cap, wouldn't you?

Anyway, I hope it's not just more of the same after these series end. Unfortunately, it probably will be.

[AgtFox]

I don't wish to be spoilerific in this thread, but if you want to know the current rumors of the post-IC universe, PM me and I'll respond with what I know.

[Savok]

Just put it in black text so we have to highlight.

[AgtFox]

OK...didn't know you could do that.

Current facts:

- After IC the DC universe will jump ahead 1 year
- The 52 weeks will be covered in a weekly series called 52

Current rumors:

- Batman/Bruce Wayne will be locked up in Arkham Asylum and Dick Grayson will take over the mantle of the bat

- Wally West will die in IC and Bart Allen will take over as Flash and the book will be written by Mark Waid

- The DC universe will not have as much angst as it currently has, things will go back to Golden Age-type storytelling

As for what happened in IC #1:

- Superman (Earth-2), Alexander Luthor (Earth-3), Lois Lane (Earth-2) and Superboy (Earth Prime) (the group that went to paradise at the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths #12) have decided they will come back into our universe to set everything straight.

The problem I have with this is that the rules were set that if those 4 ever entered our universe again that the universe would be destroyed. I'm not sure how Geoff Johns is going to write around that, but we'll probably find out in IC #2 or maybe in Superman #222 this week.

[Heretic Machine]

last "big event" was horrid (Avengers Disassembled)

What...? o.o That event got me reading comics again.

[Savok]

Times like this I'm glad I never really got into comics. Too many times have they just hit reboot because they've fucked it all up.

[AgtFox]

What...? o.o That event got me reading comics again.
Well, that's my opinion. I liked AD early on, but then it went well beyond what it needed to. In many ways Bendis is doing the same thing with the mutants that he did in AD (and of course the same person is central to both...heh). However, I never much cared for the multiple X books (although I like the X-Men), but I did care for the Avengers. I like the New Avengers storyline, I just wish they didn't have to do AD to get there.

[AgtFox]

Times like this I'm glad I never really got into comics. Too many times have they just hit reboot because they've fucked it all up.
Well, things have only been rebooted twice in DC (Crisis, Zero Hour). I'd dare say the first one was a necessity (a lot of continuity was fixed) and a lot of great books came out of it (like Man of Steel, the reinterpretation of Superman...he no longer was unstoppable and enemy origins were rejiggered) while Zero Hour was their attempt to rectify things that still had continuity problems after Crisis...however it created more problems.

Marvel has never rebooted and I don't think this mutant elimination is a reboot really since many other books will just go on about their business. The Ultimate universe wasn't a reboot either, just a new interpretation.

[Savok]

From what I can see, the Ultimates are there because the normal universe has stagnated. Ultimate is like having your computer get all sorts of crazy memory problems and then buying a new one instead of pressing reboot. I look at comics and wonder where the hell to start, why I've avoided buying anything these past few years.

[AgtFox]

I don't see Ultimate as that, but I can understand the viewpoint. There are multiple universes in the Marvel Universe and the Ultimate line has no tie to the base Universe. Ultimate FF just recently had an arc where Ultimate Reed (who is younger than he was in regular universe when they went up in the ship) was connecting to another universe's Reed. He thought it was the base universe, but it ended up being a universe where all the heroes were undead and wanted to span to the Ultimate universe. Anyway, in many ways I like the Ultimate comics better than the mainstream one. The new look of characters and the better writing (in my opinion) keeps me glued to them.

As a comic reader you just have to hit the books you think you'd enjoy. There usually isn't an overall storyline going on except during these event things. For Marvel I basically read the Spider-Man books, the Ultimate books, Captain America, Hulk, Runaways, New Avengers and Young Avengers (off the top of my head). With DC I basically keep it to any book tied to Superman or Batman (like JLA, Teen Titans, Batgirl, Robin, Birds of Prey, etc.), JSA and Flash. Outside of that things get iffy. They also have things like Ex-Machina and Y, the Last Man on their imprint companies that are very good.

[thecrazyd]

Marvel has never rebooted and I don't think this mutant elimination is a reboot really since many other books will just go on about their business. The Ultimate universe wasn't a reboot either, just a new interpretation.
I dunno... Age of Apocolypse and Onslaught were kind of reboots.

[Superunknown[GP]]

From what I can see, the Ultimates are there because the normal universe has stagnated. Ultimate is like having your computer get all sorts of crazy memory problems and then buying a new one instead of pressing reboot. I look at comics and wonder where the hell to start, why I've avoided buying anything these past few years.

Buy the Ultimate universe stuff, starting with Ultimate Spider-Man and the Ultimates.

That's where to start.

[Kefkataran]

Thanks for the props, Everlost.

IC#1 was so damned good. "The last time you ever inspired anyone... was when you were dead." Hell. Need I say more?

s Infinite Crisis like one of those, DC changing events. Like the Superman I thought I knew is going to get a brand new origin and other odd stuff.

Not exactly. It's a sequel to Crisis on Infinite Earths, which is the major DC event that did that new origin stuff. But they've said they're not planning to actually rewrite continuity with this. But who knows how it'll turn out. Still too early to end.

I personally hope they combine the Ultimate and "classic" Marvel universes, too. I'd love to see the classic Captain America beat the crap out of Ultimate Cap, wouldn't you?

Marvel has said over and over again that this won't happen. At the very least, JoeQ has said several times it will not be happening on his watch.

Anyway, I hope it's not just more of the same after these series end. Unfortunately, it probably will be.

Speaking for DC, with Geoff Johns and Grant Morrisson running things post-IC, I have plenty of faith.

Too many times have they just hit reboot because they've fucked it all up.

It's not a reboot. They're cleaning things up, but they're not restarting by any means.

I look at comics and wonder where the hell to start, why I've avoided buying anything these past few years.

I was the same way a year ago. The truth is that you just need to find writers you like and read them. Eventually they'll lead into reading other writers and hopefully discovering more you like. The vast majority of comic readers follow writers, not characters, because it's the writer that is going to be the main factor in whether or not a series sucks or rocks.

Infinite Crisis is a good pick-up point for DC. It's confusing in that there's a vast number of characters, but the main ones are pretty well-explained. Also in issue 2 there's going to be a 5-page history of the DC universe that, according to Johns, will make everything pretty clear continuity-wise. Plus you have Newsarama doing their weekly wrap-up thing, so.

[AgtFox]

I dunno... Age of Apocolypse and Onslaught were kind of reboots.
Age of Apocalypse is like the Elseworlds sagas in DC (like The Kingdom, Kingdom Come, Dark Knight Returns, etc.), it didn't reboot the Marvel Universe. Granted I was out of comics at the point AoA happened, but I have read the trades since coming back.

Onslaught didn't reboot things either. Most heroes stayed in the current universe, but the Avengers, FF, Hulk (minus Bruce Banner) and others went to the other universe. When that whole idea failed they were merged back with the regular universe. Same thing as above, I was out of comics at this point, but I did keep a keen eye on Onslaught.

Crisis and Zero Hour were reboots. Both went to the beginning of time (or in the case of Zero Hour, before time) and rebooted everything. Crisis was the bigger of the reboots since they took two major characters (Superman and Wonder Woman) and rebooted them to #1 with new origin angles.

I'd also like to note that it was because of Ultimate Spider-Man that I came back to comics after many years off.

[bardockkun]

Was I the only one who thought Wonder Woman was out of character in going to kill Mongul? I mean, I can understand her killing Max Lord but when does all of a sudden Wonder Woman goes straight for the kill?

Also if all the rumors were true you'd think Nightwing would have a better writer then Devin Grayson. I'll stick on Infinite Crisis though since first issue alone seemed to get more done the House of M was able to accomplish in seven issues.

As for the Ultimate universe. Honestly I think the Ultimates have had one of the best Avengers stories in a looooooong time (Disassembled was just shock value and nothing more). It wouldn't work with them meeting together since honestly what will it acomplish? It's its own universe and should be kept seperate like Preacher (and other non DC hero created or made Vertigo characters) and the rest of the DC Universe.

[Xerxes]

I think the only way to do it is no more crossover's, or limit them to crossevers in graphical novels only, but no more long drawn out 28 series across 6 different books and throw in some heavy changes. Sure it's set up to sell comics but it's annoying and confusing.

[Kefkataran]

Was I the only one who thought Wonder Woman was out of character in going to kill Mongul? I mean, I can understand her killing Max Lord but when does all of a sudden Wonder Woman goes straight for the kill?

If you've been following the awesome run on Wonder Woman by Greg Rucka, she's been building up to this for quite a while. She's been getting less patient with villains and more blood-thirsty as well. See: her killing Medusa and tearing her own eyes out.

[bardockkun]

If you've been following the awesome run on Wonder Woman by Greg Rucka, she's been building up to this for quite a while. She's been getting less patient with villains and more blood-thirsty as well. See: her killing Medusa and tearing her own eyes out.
Well Medusa isn't exactly human though. Also not really within the boundries and laws of mans worlds so that how i saw her killing Medusa. Meaning a-okay long as its a demon/monster/mythical creature.

[Heretic Machine]

From what I can see, the Ultimates are there because the normal universe has stagnated. Ultimate is like having your computer get all sorts of crazy memory problems and then buying a new one instead of pressing reboot. I look at comics and wonder where the hell to start, why I've avoided buying anything these past few years.


The Ultimate Universe was made to base movies on, it didn't work out that way though. That's what it was created for, that's a fact.

[Savok]

Rather then give an alternative to a fucked and confusing system, they did it to make millions from films?

That ain't much better as reasons go.

[bardockkun]

Rather then give an alternative to a fucked and confusing system, they did it to make millions from films?

That ain't much better as reasons go.
Well the comic book industry is still trying to get back to where it was in the world interms of number of fans and sales. Not to mention theyre trying to compete with video games and the internet. So they need as much help as they can get.

[Evil Avatar]

Marvel has said over and over again that this won't happen. At the very least, JoeQ has said several times it will not be happening on his watch.

And yet, they didn't hesitate to have an apparent Regular vs. Ultimate crossover event when they did the recent "Zombie" universe thing in Ultimate Fantastic Four. The "Zombie" Universe is really the same universe as the regular Marvel universe, except with zombies. (And it is now getting its own mini-series.)

I'm just saying, once you open the door to Pandora's box... it is kind of hard to slam the lid again.

Ask DC. They said over and over after Crisis on Infinite Earths that they were done with the whole multiple earth thing, but now we are back to having Earth 1 and Earth 2 again.

[Savok]

The "Zombie" Universe is really the same universe as the regular Marvel universe, except with zombies. (And it is now getting its own mini-series.)
Case in point as to why I don't bother :P

[Kefkataran]

Well Medusa isn't exactly human though. Also not really within the boundries and laws of mans worlds so that how i saw her killing Medusa. Meaning a-okay long as its a demon/monster/mythical creature.

That's sort of the point though. People didn't care when she killed Medusa cause she's not human. But people care now that she's starting to kill humans such as Max Lord because they can identify with him. He looks human. Yeah.

The Ultimate Universe was made to base movies on, it didn't work out that way though. That's what it was created for, that's a fact.

I've never heard that. I've heard it was always planned to be more similar to the movie world, but never that it was created to actually base the movies on. Got a linkie?

And yet, they didn't hesitate to have an apparent Regular vs. Ultimate crossover event when they did the recent "Zombie" universe thing in Ultimate Fantastic Four. The "Zombie" Universe is really the same universe as the regular Marvel universe, except with zombies. (And it is now getting its own mini-series.)

See, but that was the fun of that. We all thought it was a crossover to between the two main Marvel universes when, in fact, they were just toying with us. Speaking of that, though, I totally plan to buy Kirkman's Marvel Zombies mini. That should be good.

Ask DC. They said over and over after Crisis on Infinite Earths that they were done with the whole multiple earth thing, but now we are back to having Earth 1 and Earth 2 again.

Uh... no we're not? We could be once Infinite Crisis is done, but we aren't yet. And even then, that's TWENTY YEARS difference. The company has gone through tons of different editorial teams since then. Joe Q has specifically said this won't happen under him. After he's gone, anything could happen.

Case in point as to why I don't bother :P

You hate zombies? :( Sad.

[Savok]

More the Saturday morning cartoon mentality of making things simply to make other things to make piles of money. It also adds more useless complexity which is great for fans, not so much new folk.

[Kefkataran]

More the Saturday morning cartoon mentality of making things simply to make other things to make piles of money. It also adds more useless complexity which is great for fans, not so much new folk.

Well, the Zombie U doesn't really add much complexity unless they start exploring it and using it often. As of right now, it's just been looked at in one Ultimate Fantastic Four story arc and will be in a mini-series.

And, more importantly, the mini is written by Robert Kirkman, who kicks ass especially when it comes to writing zombies, so it'll probably rock.

It sounds to me, though, that if you ever wanted to get into comics you'd want to at least start with the non-Marvel/DC superhero stuff. Maybe a Vertigo series?

[bardockkun]

That's sort of the point though. People didn't care when she killed Medusa cause she's not human. But people care now that she's starting to kill humans such as Max Lord because they can identify with him. He looks human. Yeah.
Reading through other people's opinions though, Wonder Woman really didnt fit in the context of trying to kill Mongul. Yah, im a bit late in replying but have to say it.

Like in the Superman story for The Man Who Has Everything, she was facing Mongul and not once did she go for the kill or anything close to that. This time around she has Superman (not under the control of a plant) battling with her from the get go and he's pretty much defeated, when Wonder Woman comes charging in with a sword for the kill. I just don't think it should matter if Wonder Woman killed Max Lord, it shouldnt lead to her thinking like the end justifies the means.

I understand DC doing the whole "maturing" of the DC Universe, but Wonder Woman isn't the Punisher. Maxwell Lord had it coming in the sense of him controlling Superman and whooping everyone's ass. Besides that though Wonder Woman, despite being an amazon won't kill if its outside her native land. So goes the laws of man's world and Mongul is part of that law so Wonder Woman shouldn't have attempted to split his head like a melon.

Sorry for the long rant but yah ive been going many nights thinking of how it doesnt work.

[Kefkataran]

Like in the Superman story for The Man Who Has Everything, she was facing Mongul and not once did she go for the kill or anything close to that.

But that was written twenty-five years ago. In fact, it was before Crisis on Infinite Earths, even, I think, so we're not even talking about the same Wonder Woman really.

I just don't think it should matter if Wonder Woman killed Max Lord, it shouldnt lead to her thinking like the end justifies the means.

Like I said, it's not this one event that did it. She's been building up to this for Rucka's whole run on Wonder Woman for the past two or three years.

I understand DC doing the whole "maturing" of the DC Universe, but Wonder Woman isn't the Punisher.

She's not half that bad yet, and DC will be lightening things up a little after Crisis. It's just that this is the darkest moment in the heros' history to this point. They all are at spots where they need to reevaluate who they are.

[bardockkun]

Well my big problem is, i've just never seen Wonder Woman as a killer. Greg Rucka only made her snap the neck of Max Lord (who originally was supposed to be beheaded by Wonder Woman) and chop the head off Medusa, so now she's on the path to be a killer now?

I know you maybe getting tired of my nitpicks Kefkataran, but try and bare with me because i have to say it out somehow (plus you being the resident comic wiz). It's just that after more decades of stories you never see Wonder Woman resorting to something so drastic as to kill Mongul as he's down on the ground. Events like Crisis and Zero Hour never had Wonder Woman thinking that she has no choice but to kill someone. Sure, i know this is going to be the heroes "darkest" hour, but I still don't get the transition from Wonder Woman going for the kill without a second thought.

Since once more Maxwell Lord, complete douche bag with him controlling Superman and Medusa was begging for it too. Mongul, fought countless times and maybe a tough opponent but Wonder Woman never tried snapping his neck.

Also am i the only one who has worries about the lighter time for heroes after Infinite Crisis? I mean honestly, i loved, LOVED, The Flash when it was helmed by Geoff Johns and his stories were always darker i thought compared to the regular Flash fare. Though with Batman, with the change with that, with him possibly being less of a the post Frank Miller Batman and more of a "70's in his prime Batman" i truly hope will happen.

Also did you catch the bat symbol on The Spectre when he popped up in Gotham City out of curiousity?

[Kefkataran]

Well my big problem is, i've just never seen Wonder Woman as a killer. Greg Rucka only made her snap the neck of Max Lord (who originally was supposed to be beheaded by Wonder Woman) and chop the head off Medusa, so now she's on the path to be a killer now?


Not just those actions -- her attitude and the various things that have been happening in her life, including lots of betrayal and her picking up on the increasing viciousness of the enemies.

but I still don't get the transition from Wonder Woman going for the kill without a second thought.

I don't think it's something she takes lightly. But considering all the changes inching her towards this along with all the pressure she has going on (much more than normal now that the world is likely freaking out and distrusting her over Max's death and she has an upcoming trial, etc.) and the fact that Batman and Superman have, basically, abandoned her, I think it makes sense.

That said, I fear Wonder Woman may not be coming out of Infinite Crisis very... alive.

Also am i the only one who has worries about the lighter time for heroes after Infinite Crisis?

It won't be lighter for all heroes, so rest easy. What they've said is basically that it will be a little more evened out and well-spread, like I'd say the Marvel U is right now. Rather than everything being so dark and dreary, there will be some dark stuff, some light-hearted stuff, and some that's a nice mix.

Also did you catch the bat symbol on The Spectre when he popped up in Gotham City out of curiousity?

I did. I'm VERY curious about that. A lot of people seem to have caught on. I dunno, it could be a red herring, but it's very suggestive.

[bardockkun]

Man it's conversations like this that remind me all the more why ive read comic books for so long and enjoy comic book fans as oppose to manga fans.

In ways DC and Marvel seem on such opposite poles right now though. In that sense meaning Marvel's villians are all much more light hearted or not taken as seriously (especially past mort villians). While DC is bad ass'ifying all their mort villians (Catman? Im supposed to enjoy a villian who's first appearance was on a cover with a giant mechnical cat chasing after Batman and Robin?! But dammit they did it).

Also with how House of M disappointed in every level with the first issue, but Infinite Crisis so far has lived up to it well in setting up a million things that you can tell will change the DC Universe. In ways I like how theyre setting things up, but i don't see how things can be better with the drastic changes to the characters (like the Batman rumor if it proves true, i dont know how Dick Grayson and all the other Robin's (and the rest of the Bat family) can take that standing around unless they get a mind wiping).

Though i doubt Bruce Wayne will be The Spectre. In ways you can imagine it since spirit of vengence and that's exactly what Batman stands for. But looking at that and the reaction to how Hal Jordan became The Spectre you can't imagine DC using their top hero (in ways i think itll lead to Superman Blue type fiasco among fans).

[Kefkataran]

Man it's conversations like this that remind me all the more why ive read comic books for so long and enjoy comic book fans as oppose to manga fans.

Heh, hell yeah. It's good to see more interesting and passionate comic book fans coming to EvAv.

Catman? Im supposed to enjoy a villian who's first appearance was on a cover with a giant mechnical cat chasing after Batman and Robin?! But dammit they did it

Holy shit, though. I mean, I was supporting Catman from the start of Villains United but that last issue made him and Deadshot into way bigger badasses than I ever could've expected.

Who the new Spectre will be (and when) is seriously one of the biggest mysteries going on right now. I sort of hope there's some explanation as to why a new host wasn't found immediately.

[bardockkun]

Yeah, that question of who will be Spectre is one of those questions people arent paying much attention to. Though they were discussing it in Plastic Man though when his step daughter dies and inhabits the body of a Spectre with another person and they were discussing how to kill a person or do it in the most original and Spectre like way possible.

Though i doubt theyll be the next Spectre for some reason...