Warcraft 3 Bonus Map

[Evil Avatar]

Blizzard has released a new Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne multiplayer map (http://www.battle.net/war3/maps/war3xbonusmaps.shtml), Brutal Winter. "The unforgiving winter is upon us... a time when resources are scarce and flanks exposed. Call forth the warriors, for there could not be a better time to attack than now."

[Klade]

Say what you will about Blizzard, there is no other company that has as much dedication to their products AFTER they have been released.

Of course there is also no other company that makes as much on their products after release heh. I can still find Starcraft Battlechest being sold in stores.

[Liquidize105]

Yes they do, then again they're also dedicated to spying on your internet activities.

[Taco]

Is that true or is that yet another BS interpretation of something.

[Liquidize105]

Well, I remember when they collected *personal info* (http://attrition.org/errata/company/blizzard01.html) back in the SC days, they denied it of course, saying it wasn't saved except for system specs.

And lately I hear they're doing it again (http://www.rootkit.com/blog.php?newsid=358).

It's on gametab; pretty newsworthy even if it is Kotaku.

[Taco]

Seems to me it's anti cheating software.

What does Blizzard have to gain from spying on you, certainly not money. It'd add up to a grain of sand on a beach.

[Abash Alarmist]

While we are on the subject, I have seen a large number of rants and ravings from madmen (Chagrinful) who seem to be on a Crusade against StarForce 7. What exactly does it do that would cause so much angst/anger? Are they just being a troll throwing useless information into a rant or are his feelings towards the software justified?

[Liquidize105]

They're overstepping their bounds and into people's private domain.

It's by the means to which you do it, and for whom - the Gestapo "kept peace" too.

[Draft]

They're overstepping their bounds and into people's private domain.

It's by the means to which you do it, and for whom do you do it - the Gestapo "kept peace" too.Hahahaha. Oh boy, oh yes, this thread could be funny.

[Liquidize105]

Hahahaha. Oh boy, oh yes, this thread could be funny.
That's a whole lotta nuthin coming outta your hole there.

If you got something to say on the subject, say it.

[Draft]

That's a whole lotta nuthin coming outta your hole there.

If you got something to say, say it.OK, sure. Saying Spyware is like the Gestapo is as wrong as saying "Whatever" is like Hitler. It makes you sound silly and is an exceptionally poor way to support your arguement.

[Liquidize105]

That's better.

I suppose if you see it that way. The point is still perspective. If you don't mind a game company knowing everything or perhaps you think that you have nothing to hide, then good for you. No sarcasm here.

It's the same with Gestapo knocking on doors and telling the people who live there that they're staying for the night, just like that. They eat, sleep, and rummage through people's things looking for god knows what.

[Klade]

While we are on the subject, I have seen a large number of rants and ravings from madmen (Chagrinful) who seem to be on a Crusade against StarForce 7. What exactly does it do that would cause so much angst/anger? Are they just being a troll throwing useless information into a rant or are his feelings towards the software justified?

Isn't that the one that fucks with your hardware drivers and can make things actually stop working in certain setups?

[Taco]

I hope you feel the same about Google and their sidebar and email service, Liquidize.

[sinclair122]

Internet showdown, PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

[Taco]

I think so Klade. StarForce breaks computers. End of story.

[TrackZero]

Of course there is also no other company that makes as much on their products after release heh. I can still find Starcraft Battlechest being sold in stores.

I actually decided I'm going to pick up the Warcraft Battle Chest, as I can no longer find my CDs for any of the original stuff (except my Tides of Darkness expansion, strangely enough).

[net7runner]

To avoid unfocused claims, here are the facts:

Every 15 seconds (why this often, I don't know), a shell script called Warden runs on your system and investigates:
- The names of all the processes you have running
- The titles of all the windows you have open
- Random memory space of certain processes

All of this input is hashed and compared against a blacklist. I assume that if it finds something it doesn't like, it fires off a command to Blizzard and your account is banned. No important information is transmitted if it doesn't find anything noteworthy.

It is sort of disturbing that they could ban you for using things like thottbot if they so chose.

In other news...yay for more maps I guess. I can't really ever remember playing any of the maps they released later on, but it's a good thing in general.

[The Iron Weasel]

How does starforce break your computer? (i'm not defending it, i hate the thing as much as the next guy i'm just curious)

[Royal Fool]

It's the same with Gestapo knocking on doors and telling the people who live there that they're staying for the night, just like that. They eat, sleep, and rummage through people's things looking for god knows what.

Sort of like that, yes.

Having programs like these running in the background is comparable to having some men from the government stay in your room and watch over your shoulder, looking at everything you're doing on the computer. They might not actually say anything even if they saw you do something "naughty" or whatever, but they can whenever they feel like it. If the thought of that doesn't at least make you feel uncomfortable...

[Kefkataran]

It is sort of disturbing that they could ban you for using things like thottbot if they so chose.

It's mildly disturbing, but the thought that they'd choose to do so is so absurd as to be pretty much marginalized, at least in my opinion.

Having programs like these running in the background is comparable to having some men from the government stay in your room and watch over your shoulder, looking at everything you're doing on the computer. They might not actually say anything even if they saw you do something "naughty" or whatever, but they can whenever they feel like it. If the thought of that doesn't at least make you feel uncomfortable...

What the fuck are people doing WHILE running WoW that they're scared of Blizzard seeing? I mean I understand the privacy aspect, and I totally respect that, but it's NOTHING like the Gestapo or anything like that, because you're choosing to run the program and you have to imagine while running it they have some way of watching to see if you're running programs that might not be good for the game. It's more like submitting to a drug test before participating in an athletic event.

And while I'm far too lazy to actually do this myself, I'm sure if you looked over the contract you agree to every time you log in after a new patch, it probably says something about Blizzard having the right to check your running programs while you play.

Also worth noting: like someone said earlier, it checks what it finds against a list to see if there are any flags raised. It's not like there are Blizzard employees sitting and monitoring what each of their millions of subscribers are doing at any given time. So 99.999% likelihood that the program's findings will never be seen by an actual human.

[AversionFX]

Eh. It boils down to "people don't like other people watching what they do." I mean, even if it's not intrusive (although, when is spyware not intrusive?), people just don't like knowing that they're being watched.

[Kefkataran]

Eh. It boils down to "people don't like other people watching what they do." I mean, even if it's not intrusive (although, when is spyware not intrusive?), people just don't like knowing that they're being watched.

Like I said, I dig the privacy beat. Makes sense. But people a.) shouldn't be doing anything that Bliz would care about while playing WoW anyways and b.) are agreeing to let Bliz do this when entering into their game and running their program (which is more than likely something found within the terms of service). And perhaps most important of all is c.) most people don't do anything on their computer that's even worth getting upset about people watching MOST OF THE TIME much less while playing WoW.

This is just a really simple cheater-catching device, and the way people are blowing it out of proportion is both paranoid and silly. I mean when you're playing an online game and connecting to a huge network of servers all run by Bliz, why would you assume you're NOT being watched for activity considered illegal by the games ToS? It's only logical.

[jwbxx]

Anyways guys back on the topic at hand. Cool map, but like every other blizzard fan we really dont care. All we care about is that they reassemble the starcraft team and make fucking sc2, because i need to know what fucken happens!

[Edwin]

I run everything while playing wow since I have dual monitors. One screen WoW, another is work, and personal things. At least I used to do that.

[Kefkataran]

I run everything while playing wow since I have dual monitors. One screen WoW, another is work, and personal things. At least I used to do that.

Better stop, since your work/personal stuff is probably so scary and secret you'd never want Blizzard getting a hold of it, eh?

[Liquidize105]

The point is so people don't get used to the idea that somehow game security has the legitamacy to put up cameras on your pc.

It's a goddamned game. I'd like my right to privacy, thanks.

[Kefkataran]

The point is so people don't get used to the idea that somehow game security has the legitamacy to put up cameras on your pc.

There's a pretty vast difference here between putting up cameras and scanning your computer. A camera isn't going to help them figure out whether or not you're cheating unless it's just recording what you do in-game which, since you're logged into Bliz's servers on Bliz's game, they can probably do easy enough.

It's a goddamned game. I'd like my right to privacy, thanks.

It's a goddamned game. I'd like them to not allow assholes to cheat and ruin my experience, thanks.

You're like the king of blowing stuff out of proportion.

[Liquidize105]

Do you go sniffing through people's laundry? I'm sure they're not deathly afraid of you doing that, but you can bet your underwear that they are not gonna like it. Sometimes it's not the act itself, but the thought of it that's repulsing.

Now, it's pretty obvious that this cheat protection can be used for more than just punkbusting, nevermind the fact that it's for a game (christ, one game), and you have the nerves to tell people that their work/personal stuff is not important enough to be kept private?

Enjoy having your pc scanned, as long as there's no "cameras" right? :D

[Kefkataran]

Do you go sniffing through people's laundry? I'm sure they're not deathly afraid of you doing that, but you can bet your underwear that they are not gonna like it. Sometimes it's not the act itself, but the thought of it that's repulsing.

Once again, there's a HUGE difference. Other people aren't agreeing to Terms of Service that allow me to look through their laundry and they aren't in a world that I control where I would want to prevent them from doing something illegal (as in cheating in WoW). And even more importantly, once again, with WoW it's not real people sitting and starting at the files running on your computer -- it's a program checking it against a log for potentially bad programs running.

Now, it's pretty obvious that this cheat protection can be used for more than just punkbusting, nevermind the fact that it's for a game (christ, one game), and you have the nerves to tell people that their work/personal stuff is not important enough to be kept private?

Is it obvious that it can be used for more? Do we really know any specifics? Do we know if Bliz employees have access to the records that the program takes, what employees have that access, or how long the records are kept? I don't think so. And again, I don't think it's common for people to do work/personal stuff WHILE playing WoW, but if it is and they have a problem with the fact that the name of the file they're running could be looked at, now they know to stop. And they probably would have before had they read the ToS or, you know, used some common sense.

Enjoy having your pc scanned, as long as there's no "cameras" right?

Enjoy blowing things out of proportion, as long as there's no logic right? :D

[Liquidize105]

Your logic anyway.

My logic says privacy comes before a lot of stuff, especially games. I don't wait for bad stuff to start happening first before I access my options.

Terms of sevice are ridiculous, who actually reads like 40 pages of that crap? Most of it is common sense mixed in along with the mandatory fine print. What are you suppose to do if you disagree? Return the game? You already bought it!

Anyway, I've said what I wanted to say. Imma go catch some zzz now, my head's still buzzing from last night.

[Kefkataran]

My logic says privacy comes before a lot of stuff, especially games. I don't wait for bad stuff to start happening first before I access my options.

And that's why what Blizzard is doing does NOT equate to fascism or guys coming into your house and digging through your stuff against your will -- it's completely your choice.

Terms of sevice are ridiculous, who actually reads like 40 pages of that crap?

People who are overly worried about stuff like this, I'd imagine.

ost of it is common sense mixed in along with the mandatory fine print.

Common sense such as Bliz's right to protect their game against cheating by making sure you're not running cheat programs while playing the game, yes.

What are you suppose to do if you disagree? Return the game? You already bought it!

You can still return it at some places. All depends.

But yeah, the main thing you do if you don't agree with it is not play it. That's why it's there. If it really bothers you, you have the right to not play it, and I respect you choosing that, even if I think it's a silly reason to choose it. It's comparing it to totalitarianism that's ridiculous.

[bryan]

I hope Liquid doesn't stay or even venture into any highly developed Western city ever. He might get a spasm from all the cameras watching him. :D

[TrackZero]

I hope Liquid doesn't stay or even venture into any highly developed Western city ever. He might get a spasm from all the cameras watching him. :D

Cameras in public are fine. Cameras in your home are not, which is what this equates to. I'm with Liquid on this.

[bryan]

You guys are kidding right? Gestapo=home invasion, do anything to you at anytime. Blizzard=Don't buy their games if you don't like them scanning your computer. How, in any way, do they equate? It's YOUR choice to install a Blizzard game. Come off it. Sheesh.

[TrackZero]

You guys are kidding right? Gestapo=home invasion, do anything to you at anytime. Blizzard=Don't buy their games if you don't like them scanning your computer. How, in any way, equate? It's YOUR choice to install a Blizzard game. Come off it. Sheesh.

It's fine if that's what their software is going to do, but TELL us about it, up front, so we can make that choice. Don't be an ass.

[bryan]

I bring you back to the original point of my post, in that I was illustrating the total inanity of drawing parallels between Blizzard and the Gestapo. Please address that before beginning the name calling.

[TrackZero]

I bring you back to the original point of my post, in that I was illustrating the total inanity of drawing parallels between Blizzard and the Gestapo. Please address that before beginning the name calling.

Well that's good for your original post, I'm just replying to your previous comment. And I don't appreciate this "hey, it's ok, it's Blizzard, it's your fucking problem if you don't know you're allowing them to watch what you do on your PC". That's wrong, without question, I did not knowingly allow Blizzard to do this, nor do I want them to continue to do so.

Because with any surveillance, it's not a "company" watching you, it's one guy, who can and will abuse said ability at some point. They're no Gestapo, but I don't want some weiner working in Blizzard server support sniffing through my personal data for shits and giggles.

[Taco]

I doubt it's one guy, I doubt it's anyone. It's all automated. Checks what you are running against a master list, on the fly. I don't think a piece of code cares if you're watching porn.

[Liquidize105]

Sometimes it's not the act itself, but the thought of it that's repulsing.
Alrighty? :D

Serious, Blizzard gets too much leverage for a game company, understandably. But it still just makes games.

[Kefkataran]

It's fine if that's what their software is going to do, but TELL us about it, up front, so we can make that choice. Don't be an ass.

Ever read the Terms of Service? Or thought about it for long enough to realize that it's only sensible that they'd do something like this to prevent cheating?

I doubt it's one guy, I doubt it's anyone. It's all automated. Checks what you are running against a master list, on the fly. I don't think a piece of code cares if you're watching porn.

What he said.

It all comes down to choice. If you're honestly THIS paranoid about being watched, there's absolutely no reason you should be buying a game that connects you to a server cluster run by this huge company in the first place, much less connecting to the internet at all.