360 users to pay for TF2 content updates later this year

[Lance Uppercut]

By way of Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5040417/team-fortress-2-updates-coming-to-xbox-360-later-this-year), 360 Orange Box players will finally be able to enjoy the new maps and weapons that Valve has been regularly pumping out for its PC version of Team Fortress 2. From the article:

Valve marketing director Doug Lombardi got that piece of business out of the way just before our latest Left 4 Dead demo, saying that the developer wanted to build up a massive update for Xbox 360 users before delivering. Given that Valve is being forced to charge for the update, they wanted to ensure that 360 owners were getting their money's worth.

Good on Valve to finally deliver this content to console players (except for the PS3, apparently), but paying for free stuff PC fans have been getting for months is still a kick in the ass.

[MasterEvilAce]

TF2 is dead on 360/PS3. So many exploits it's ridiculous.

[Earth Djinn]

Being forced to charge?

A lot of DLC gets released for free. Look at the Cagney Pack for Paradise.

[Vyzov]

Being forced to charge?

A lot of DLC gets released for free. Look at the Cagney Pack for Paradise.

That means nothing. Just because some content is released for free, doesn't mean it all can be.

[Froggy]

But will they make enough money from the charges to make up for the alienated fanbase? No Uvas!

[bapenguin]

Makes no sense to me. Just recently we saw Battlefield: Bad Company get updated with a bunch of new content. Burnout Paradise as well. Both free.

Army of Two as well.

And they are all EA games. Isn't Orange Box EA published on consoles?

[Food Nipple]

Makes no sense to me. Just recently we saw Battlefield: Bad Company get updated with a bunch of new content. Burnout Paradise as well. Both free.

Army of Two as well.

And they are all EA games. Isn't Orange Box EA published on consoles?

MS has that policy where content that is free on the PS3 will also be free on the 360. All of the above games received the content for free on the PS3, so 360 owners don't have to pay. The extra OB content is currently 360 only, as that's the only version Valve internally developed, therefore MS can mandate that it's paid content.

[beefyjr]

Why are they bothering? They let that game die out last year when it was almost unplayable on release and they didn't move fast enough to fix it, then when they released a patch, it still didn't fix it. It's a shame, because the game is super awesome, but even two months later it was a ghost town.

[CPaladino]

I'm allowed to make a sad-face emote right?

:(

[GodFather]

doesnt matter, to find a game of TF on the 360 takes as much time as it does playing.

[Demo_Boy]

Anything with code changes costs money.
You have to take massive extra steps up front to make a system that supports extensibility via content updates only. Even then, the types of changes made to TF could not have been imagined during development, so its no surprise code changes are needed.

[BabyJesus]

TF2 is dead on 360/PS3. So many exploits it's ridiculous.

Damn, there are! That explains some mysterious happenings the last time I played it.. Had no idea there were so many.. They need to patch that shit hard.

[Varsity]

Something tells me they will.

[Phanto]

Thats the problem with consoles they want to charge for every little DLC developer publish, I don't know who we should blame for this... developers or Microsoft but either way it sucks for console gamers.

[Bingley Joe]

Thats the problem with consoles they want to charge for every little DLC developer publish, I don't know who we should blame for this... developers or Microsoft but either way it sucks for console gamers.

Blaming businesses for trying to do business is pointless though. How about blaming the people who give them money for stuff they're selling?

[alienchild]

Read Dougs interview regarding this (a ew newspost ago), or stfu.

[brutalus7]

I seem to recall that Epic wanted to release some Gears of War content for free but Microsoft wouldn't let them. The first map pack was free because it was sponsored, but they didn't get a second sponsor, so MS made them charge for it.

It's really stupid that charging you for Live isn't enough to cover this type of thing. I understand one or the other, but paying them so you can pay again is just stupid. I hope Sony and the PS3 force MS to make Live free. Or maybe Valve will put up a fight to get it for less. However, it is going to basically double the content when you think about it, so maybe $10 isn't too bad.

[Greeble]

MS has that policy where content that is free on the PS3 will also be free on the 360. All of the above games received the content for free on the PS3, so 360 owners don't have to pay. The extra OB content is currently 360 only, as that's the only version Valve internally developed, therefore MS can mandate that it's paid content.

See, this is why we need healthy competition in the console space.

[LionEyez]

TF2 is dead on 360/PS3. So many exploits it's ridiculous.

Are you kidding? I'll admit there aren't many people playing it in comparison to Call of Duty or Halo, but in my experience the people that do play it (on the 360) play quite often.

The exploits are annoying, yes, but these things don't happen on all the games. It's certainly not dead.

Anyway - this news is awesome! I really felt left out when I kept reading/hearing about all the cool TF 2 PC updates. I'm more than willing to pay for it, if that's what it takes to get it on the 360.

[digitalErich]

MS has that policy where content that is free on the PS3 will also be free on the 360. All of the above games received the content for free on the PS3, so 360 owners don't have to pay. The extra OB content is currently 360 only, as that's the only version Valve internally developed, therefore MS can mandate that it's paid content.
This is where the "why is this being charged for" questions and arguments should have stopped.

As someone who's gotten their money's worth 20 times over with TF2 on the PC with the class updates, official maps/gamemodes, and (tons of) community maps I do feel bad for the console crowd as the fun they are missing out on is ridiculous, but put blame where blame is due. Valve created what I consider to be the best software gaming value of all time with the Orange box. Do you really think if they had their way they'd charge for this?

[dr_wily]

i just got orange box used for 20$ for the 360

didnt know they werent even available, i had to read up a ton on the game cause i totally suck.

if this sucks me in like cod4 does ill prolly shill the 10$ out for it.

[Count Elmdor]

Here's predicting a meh-tastic TF2 360 update for 400-800 points more than it's worth. At this point I'll squirrel even that little amount of cash away for a new PC on which to play the proper version of the game.

[Blackmath]

I still play TF2 on the 360, I've never had a problem finding a game either. There's usually 20+ servers going at any time. Now I realize that's nothing compared to the PC version but it's not bad either.

[violentp]

I'm just glad that Valve always delivers on the PC front. Between stuff like this and their backpedaling on their stance on the PS3 based on money, I see a lot of room for wariness. Granted this is probably not their fault but it's a console users concern no less.

[Zurik]

They should have a policy that free PC content is free on the 360. You know that $10 Call of Duty 4 mappack? Its in a free patch on the PC.

[Heretic Machine]

Good on Valve to finally deliver this content to console players (except for the PS3, apparently), but paying for free stuff PC fans have been getting for months is still a kick in the ass.

That was a good argument against Live years ago, but I think it's safe to say that 360 fans either don't give a shit, or aren't willing to keep their wallets closed despite giving a shit.

They should have a policy that free PC content is free on the 360. You know that $10 Call of Duty 4 mappack? Its in a free patch on the PC.

Microsoft doesn't like much free content on Live, as they feel that it devalues other, similar, things on the marketplace.

[Micasa]

MS has that policy where content that is free on the PS3 will also be free on the 360. All of the above games received the content for free on the PS3, so 360 owners don't have to pay. The extra OB content is currently 360 only, as that's the only version Valve internally developed, therefore MS can mandate that it's paid content.

MS can mandate to other publishers now?

[Heretic Machine]

MS can mandate to other publishers now?

When said publisher has to sell it's shit through their "store"; yes, yes they can.

[jeffbax]

Meh, if Valve really cared they would change their attitude toward PS3 and stick it to MS. Its pretty clear they are really only focused on PC, not that that is a bad thing.

[Telefrog]

When said publisher has to sell it's shit through their "store"; yes, yes they can.

Exactly. Some of you have short memories regarding who gets to make the rules on the Marketplace. It's not the developers or publishers. It's Microsoft.

[H.Bogard]

Meh, if Valve really cared they would change their attitude toward PS3 and stick it to MS. Its pretty clear they are really only focused on PC, not that that is a bad thing.

Just one problem : They said that the PS3 was "a waste of everyone's time".

[violentp]

Just one problem : They said that the PS3 was "a waste of everyone's time".

The whole Valve on console thing is a fucking joke. It's solely an outlet to increase profits of their PC properties. They've proven this numerous times with their shoddy console ports, fee-based additions and backpedaling from previous claims once the potential of profit has shown itself. The only thing that console owners should really be concerned about is not getting a shitty version of Left4Dead.

[jeffbax]

Just one problem : They said that the PS3 was "a waste of everyone's time".

Yes, which is why I don't care if they bitch about MS making them charge and their games being worthless on consoles. They could do something if they wanted but they choose not to.

[LilAbner]

Supply and demand, folks. The foundation of the American economy...in my case, I don't have a PC with the requirements to run TF2 so 360 is my only option. Valve has me by the balls because I love TF2 but can't afford a new PC right now. :(

[Craigtheplague]

Supply and demand, folks. The foundation of the American economy...in my case, I don't have a PC with the requirements to run TF2 so 360 is my only option. Valve has me by the balls because I love TF2 but can't afford a new PC right now. :(

Unless your computer was built way before the release of half-life 2, you don't need to buy a new one. The source engine runs very well on old hardware. Download a guest pass or a demo of the game and play around with the graphical settings to find the sweet spot.

[Crono]

Microsoft encourages developers to charge. Can't put all the blame on Valve.

[H.Bogard]

Unless your computer was built way before the release of half-life 2, you don't need to buy a new one. The source engine runs very well on old hardware. Download a guest pass or a demo of the game and play around with the graphical settings to find the sweet spot.

This. There is absolutely no fucking reason why anyone who isn't running anything other than winzip and MSIE in this day and age shouldn't be able to play Source engine games. The damn things run on old ass Intel Extreme 845 chips!

[Micasa]

When said publisher has to sell it's shit through their "store"; yes, yes they can.

And yet other games have had free content packs, even some not published by Microsoft. I have no doubt they want people to charge, but don't pretend for a second that there's a company out there that's REFUSING MONEY.

[KamaItachi]

Are you kidding? I'll admit there aren't many people playing it in comparison to Call of Duty or Halo, but in my experience the people that do play it (on the 360) play quite often.

The exploits are annoying, yes, but these things don't happen on all the games. It's certainly not dead.

Anyway - this news is awesome! I really felt left out when I kept reading/hearing about all the cool TF 2 PC updates. I'm more than willing to pay for it, if that's what it takes to get it on the 360.


I still regularly play with a bunch of people, but really it's just more of an active chatroom.

If they clear up the bugs and exploits, I'd probably be persuaded to part the points for this, but make sure it's an update to put it on par with the PC version.

[Wasson_]

I can't even imagine playing this game on the box...expecially now with my new comp i just picked up today. :)

[Jotoco]

Supply and demand, folks. The foundation of the American economy...in my case, I don't have a PC with the requirements to run TF2 so 360 is my only option. Valve has me by the balls because I love TF2 but can't afford a new PC right now. :(

As I don't have enough money to buy a 360 I bought gaming laptop. Yes, there are places where they are cheaper than the 360

[oldjadedgamer]

And yet other games have had free content packs, even some not published by Microsoft. I have no doubt they want people to charge, but don't pretend for a second that there's a company out there that's REFUSING MONEY.

If the content appears on other systems like PSN then it's free on XBL. With this in mind, what other games are you talking about?

The whole Valve on console thing is a fucking joke. It's solely an outlet to increase profits of their PC properties. They've proven this numerous times with their shoddy console ports, fee-based additions and backpedaling from previous claims once the potential of profit has shown itself. The only thing that console owners should really be concerned about is not getting a shitty version of Left4Dead.

Valve has never developed for any console besides the Xbox/360. The ports of Half-Life on Dreamcast and PS2 along with the port of Orange Box was handled by other developers.

They have only worked on PC/Xbox.

Just one problem : They said that the PS3 was "a waste of everyone's time".

Gabe said that. And if Valve doesn't have to work on the system and the publisher pays for another dev to port it to the PS3, how does that change how Gabe feels. He's still not making his team work on the system.

[Tempest261]

Microsoft has a knack for continually pissing me off recently. First, this- then I forgot about how I can't download demos for a week on a silver account. They're F-IN PROMO MATERIALS!!! Give me a break.

Microsoft seriously has their collective head so far up their ass that I would do nothing but anger myself if I was to buy the successor to the 360. They show absolutely no respect to their customers. And 360 fanboys will come back at me saying "ohhh, but the cost of nickel and diming is so low!" OK, maybe not phrased like that, but it's the same point.

I'm already sold on the "PS4" and I haven't even seen it yet. Microsoft has themselves to thank.
/RANT

[Tempest261]

And yet other games have had free content packs, even some not published by Microsoft. I have no doubt they want people to charge, but don't pretend for a second that there's a company out there that's REFUSING MONEY.

They're *trying* to refuse it because it breaks Valve's entire business model! They give the main content legs by giving away free updates regularly. I can't believe this is such an incomprehensible concept to the typical console tard (not saying you all are). Don't worry! They'll get their return on their code development investment, only it'll likely be a GREATER return than if they charged for it. Why do you think almost *everyone* with a PC that I know has a copy of Orange Box/TF2 as if it's standard equipment? Same with COD4 (maps were free on it as well). The same phenomenon never happens to me w/ my 360, because who the hell wants to buy a new game when they have to plan on buying a series of mini expansion packs to play with their friends? Come on.

[LionEyez]

They're *trying* to refuse it because it breaks Valve's entire business model! They give the main content legs by giving away free updates regularly. I can't believe this is such an incomprehensible concept to the typical console tard (not saying you all are). Don't worry! They'll get their return on their code development investment, only it'll likely be a GREATER return than if they charged for it. Why do you think almost *everyone* with a PC that I know has a copy of Orange Box/TF2 as if it's standard equipment? Same with COD4 (maps were free on it as well). The same phenomenon never happens to me w/ my 360, because who the hell wants to buy a new game when they have to plan on buying a series of mini expansion packs to play with their friends? Come on.

To be fair, without access to the proper statistics, how could we know that Valve's free update approach was working at all? Simply charging for something that costs money to make makes more business sense on the surface, doesn't it?

I've heard it mentioned that with each new update Valve releases, more people buy TF 2. And thats awesome but at some point that's going to stop, I would think.

[Lance Uppercut]

Woop woop, my first news post!

It's really stuff like this that makes me glad to be a PC gamer, though I suspect that this content will be free on Live sooner or later.

[Tempest261]

I've heard it mentioned that with each new update Valve releases, more people buy TF 2. And thats awesome but at some point that's going to stop, I would think.

It's the reason why Valve's games have such long shelf lives. The model is different on the PC. PC Gamers buy fewer, arguably better games and play them much longer. At first glance, it would appear that this doesn't generate as much profit, but the fact of the matter is that they will be selling their game for years after its come out. While console games have insane sales numbers the first week of debut, they burn out quickly. This isn't the case with PC games, especially Valve games, because they do such a good job at stoking the fire.

That long tail would not exist if they started charging micro transactions. Not only would it peeve off customers, but it would absolutely destroy their massive multiplayer base by fragmenting it with haves and have-nots. That's essentially what killed EA's Battlefield 2, among many other poor publisher choices. Valve on the other hand still has tons of full servers in Counterstrike Source, Day of Defeat Source, and now TF2, and people KEEP BUYING THEM. Write the core code once, sell it a gazillion times for YEARS. It's forward-looking. It's simple. It keeps customers happy. It's brilliant. Damned if Microsoft can ever figure it out.

[the soUL TRAder]

Well, I for one I'm happy about it.

I just got the OrangeBox used for $22 and since games always get a bump in users when big map packs come out on XBL, I hope there are more players to game with and, of course, that the game is playable :eek:.

I don't mind paying a few extra bucks to help offset all that PC piracy, arrgh!