Have Sony Shot Themselves In The Foot?

[fitbabits]

Going by this article on TeamXbox (http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/9503/Developers-Migrating-from-PS3-to-Xbox-360-Development/), the answer may be yes:

PS3Today.com and PS3Focus.com have reported a recent Japanese article about PS3 developer support, which has an insider source claiming that the initial investment for PS3 software development it at least ¥2 billion (U$S 17.6 million), and that figure does not include the actual development costs associated directly with the title.

This initial investment, according to this insider source, is "nothing but a nightmare for many Japanese software development companies."

The article also reveals that the prevailing rumor in Japanese game development circles is that many companies may end up developing for the Xbox 360, which will lower R&D costs since the system shares many similarities with Windows game development, allowing developers to release a single title on both platforms.
I'll leave this one for the rational-minded among us...

[MosBen]

If accurate that's pretty bad for Sony. Still, $17 million spread over the life of the console and the many games that a major company will release isn't devastating. It'll certainly squeeze out smaller developers but it's not going to stop a company like Capcom or Konami.

[Atorak]

Woah.

Is there anything else to say, if this is actually true? 18 million bucks, and you haven't even spent one minute on game development....

Maybe we have underestimated all the systems that Microsoft has put in place this time around? I mean, we are talking about one of the biggest technology companies in the world. I doubt they figured on taking 2nd place this time around. Plus, we have heard that they are doing everything they can to make the development process as easy, and as cheap as possible to do. Especially with all the pre-built software suites and tools available for all the developers.

Still....18 million....yikes.

[bapenguin]

That's pretty amazing. I wonder if they did that so they can keep consumer costs down on the system itself.

[MosBen]

Just to elaborate a little, how many games has Capcom released on the PS2, 20? More? Or on the other hand, how much money has Square made from the games they've released? For a big developer this isn't going to be much a barrier of entry and the big developers bring the big games that *most* people care about. Sure, it could squeeze out the smaller developers that make the quirky, innovative, and downright cool games that all of us hardcore folks know and love but from Sony's standpoint they'll still have all the major franchises that bring in all the money.

[Dr.Finger]

Firstly that $18 million dollar for initial development number sounds a little shifty. That sounds more like the projected average cost of next-generation games, which will probably be roughly the same for the 360 and the PS3.

Second, developers and publishers will make games for whichever system they can make the most money off of. If the 360 does as badly in Japan as the original X-Box did, guess what? They'll develop for the PS3 even if it's a little harder to work with.

[jacktion]

That's pretty amazing. I wonder if they did that so they can keep consumer costs down on the system itself.

Yeah, that's it. Sure.

[Wonka]

Meanwhile MS is working on ways to get indie developers into their stable with LIVE! Arcade, making suites of cross platform tools with XNA, and even furnishing the PC with access to LIVE! and a controller in an effort to make games pay off more for the PC and Xbox platforms. These are the exact same philosophies that these two companies applied on last round. The only question is whether or not Sonys philosophy of "if you make it they will come-REGARDLESS of the cost" will ever catch up with them...

I am betting that it will eventually bite Sony, but not right away. Sony does not care about a few indie developers. Remember that the people who buy games did not have to take these big risks. They also did not have to pay extra for the product at the end of the day. Gamers will not feel the pinch from this industry trend untill years from now when there are suddenly only 2 genres of games in the marketplace with yearly sequels.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

This article seems a little shady.

Japanese developers don't release many PC games - I can't really see the majority of them developing for the 360 and porting their titles to Windows as well.



Edit-

Gamers will not feel the pinch from this industry trend untill years from now when there are suddenly only 2 genres of games in the marketplace with yearly sequels.

Between the sequel factories at UbiSoft and EA that day may not be all that far off.

Heck, toss in Activision (Tony Hawk, Spiderman titles) and Sony first party (to some extent) to that list as well. They aren't as bad as Ubi and EA though.

[XenonCJ]

They said the same stuff about the PS2 - and we all know how horrible that went for Sony...

[Buddha Lotus]

Wow..

Another anti Sony/PS article on xboxfanboy.com.. errrr.. evilavatar.com

:)

[Shifteh]

Man, wait until it's released guys.

[Heretic Machine]

I have to question this, despite my rabid hate for Sony. Mostly because it's coming from an XBOX-fanboy site (a good one, but still...) I'd say these facts are highly questionable, and until someone can give me some more solid proof on these numbers, I'm gonna call BS.

[fitbabits]

Wow..

Another anti Sony/PS article on xboxfanboy.com.. errrr.. evilavatar.com

:)
Wow, another Sony fanboy getting his panties in a bunch. I suggest you look up the word objective as it relates to reporting. In fact, given that Sony haven't released a search engine for you yet, let me do it for you:

Objective (adjective -no, it's not the same word, they only sound the same-): undistorted by emotion or personal bias.

[Simple]

Anybody remember when Nintendo only allowed key, big-named developement shops make games for the N64? There are two pathways here... One can concentrate their resources on creating a small number of products they know are the best they can possibly do. The other would be to concentrate on producing as much as possible and knowing that something good would come out of the sheer quantity produced. Sony has done the latter, while Nintendo tried the former with their consoles. I'm just wondering if this is a shift in tactics for Sony. I'm leaving Microsoft out of this because they have been throwing money at it trying to do both; probably the only company that has a chance of pulling that off.

Still mulling on this one a bit, but I just thought I'd air my thoughts.

[fitbabits]

I have to question this, despite my rabid hate for Sony. Mostly because it's coming from an XBOX-fanboy site (a good one, but still...) I'd say these facts are highly questionable, and until someone can give me some more solid proof on these numbers, I'm gonna call BS.
Here's similar info from the links on the original TeamXbox article:

PS3 Today (http://www.ps3today.com/Blogs/News/hqs/blr_647.aspx)

And this, from PS3 Focus.com (http://www.ps3focus.com/archives/127)

Victory for the Sony PS3 looking more unlikely as support for Kutaragi drops

Japan’s recent general election, featuring Koizumi’s battalion of “smiling assassins” [high-profile women media personalities and diplomats designed to dazzle voters], resulted in an emphatic victory for Koizumi. This winter, the next-generation gaming industry also appeared to be gearing up for a general election. The question is, which next-generation console will be victorious?

In the middle of this month, the gaming industry’s biggest event, “Tokyo Game Show 2005″, was held at Makuhari Messe. The catch cry for TGS was, “You can see the future from the front seat.” Smiling wryly, a major software company executive remarked, “We [the software industry] are the ones who really want to see the future.”

With a sigh, he continued: “Next-generation game consoles are like a general election. For software makers like us, [choosing a platform to develop for] has been a drawn-out process similar to choosing a political power or political party to support, and it is extremely difficult to predict the outcome.”

The highlight of this general election for the gaming industry will be seeing whether the “Oda-Nobunaga [powerful Japanese ruler and well-known historical figure] of the industry” Ken Kutaragi and his Playstation camp can exude the same powerful charisma as [Japanese Prime Minister] Junichirou Koizumi.

An industry insider remarked, “The outcome will depend on whether gamers support Sony executive Kutaragi in his firm belief that the evolution of the game console [hardware] will result in a bigger market for Sony.”

In the periodic management plan Sony released on the 22nd, Sony had the following to say about their high-tech creation, the PS3: “Our top priority is to bring innovation to the market by next spring.”

Most believe it will be a decisive victory [for Sony], with the catch phrase “Don’t stop evolution”, much like Junichirou Koizumi’s election victory with his catchphrase “Don’t stop reformation.” However, another industry insider confided, “This is nothing but a nightmare for many Japanese software development companies.”

One of the reasons for this nightmare is soaring development costs.

The industry insider went on to say, “Kutaragi has said, ‘Please develop suitable software for PS3 - this software must not be of the same standard as PS2 software.’ Developing software for the PS3 from scratch will require an initial investment of at least 2 billion yen [US $17.6 million] [not including development costs]. There are not many software companies that can easily afford that kind of money.”

The prevailing rumor is that many software companies with difficulty may end up developing for the Xbox 360 (to be released on 10 December 2005).

The previous interviewee also said, “Kutaragi is pursuing hardware evolution, and the credibility gap for him is now even worse than that of the GameCube era [when many developers defected from Nintendo].”

In fact, Microsoft is garnering support from many software developers and game creators in Japan. This kind of movement [spearheaded by Microsoft] is reminiscent of The Democratic Party of Japan’s general election catch phrase - “We will not give up on the Japanese market.” Indeed, one software developer slated to develop exclusively for Sony is now questioning whether this was the right decision.

One journalist, a veteran of the industry, observes, “The Xbox 360 is selling at 39795 yen [US $350], whereas the PS3 will probably be more expensive. To draw a comparison with PC operating systems, the Xbox 360 is like a low-cost and stable version of Windows, while the PS3 resembles a high quality Macintosh [operating system]. Considering the economic variance within the world market, we may find that console selection depends heavily on geographic location.”

In an aside about the Nintendo Revolution, the journalist remarked, “It will survive on the basis of its originality. I don’t know about [its prospects in] other countries, but it may win alone in Japan.”

Unlike Koizumi’s emphatic victory in the general election, opposition in the gaming industry is strong. Therefore, the future prospects for the battle of the next generation consoles look chaotic.

Both these sites favor the PS3 - does that alter your opinion, Perigon?

[doyama]

Cross platform between the Xbox360 and the PC is really only appealing to North American or European developers. But even in this case, any console game making it over to the PC work is more of the exception and not the rule. Though highly established franchises do MOHAA, GTA, Sims etc.

Japanese developers hardly ever cross develop to the PC platform. Even highly established franchises like FF (except FF7 FFXI), DQ, DoA, VF, etc never make it to the PC. I think the only PC games made in Japan are anime porn games! (haha!). I think the high fragmentation in the PC market in Japan up until the late 80s (FM Towns, NEC, etc) didn't really help develop a core market from which to springboard from. There's almost no benefit to the Japanese developer for releasing an Xbox360 and PC title, since to them there is basically no market for the PC version anyways, because if it isnt popular in Japan they really don't care (which is why the Dreamcast died).

[bapenguin]

I have to question this, despite my rabid hate for Sony. Mostly because it's coming from an XBOX-fanboy site (a good one, but still...) I'd say these facts are highly questionable, and until someone can give me some more solid proof on these numbers, I'm gonna call BS.

This is definitley a whisper down the alley type thing. Team XBox reports on PS3 Insider which reported on another site which heard from an insider that confided in.....

Lets see if Sony tries to do some damage control on this.

[Frogleg Special]

So what's your point after typing (well, actually quoting) all those long sentences, O' mighty Xbox fanboy? That PS3 is going to fail and Xbox is going to be the sole supremo console? Boo hoo. I believe it when I see it.

<quote>
Here's (a) similar info from the links on the original TeamXbox article.
</quote>

That's spelling nazi for you.

[fitbabits]

So what's your point after typing (well, actually quoting) all those long sentences, O' mighty Xbox fanboy? That PS3 is going to fail and Xbox is going to be the sole supremo console? Boo hoo. I believe it when I see it.

<quote>
Here's (a) similar info from the links on the original TeamXbox article.
</quote>
That's spelling nazi for you.
My point is that the original information came from two PS3 sources, not an Xbox source.

And by the way, get your own grammar in order before you criticize anyone elses. My sentence was correct as it was referring to more than one source - eejit. 'A' is singular, unless your talking about a herd of cows or a gaggle of eejits, etc.

Away and boil yer heid!

[Morratut]

Mmmm I find this hard to believe. Surely Sony wouldn't have made it THAT hard to develop for?

However I heard other developers saying that the PS3 isn't as easy the Xbox360. Carmack was one of them.

[Dracula-X]

Here we go... again.

[NonSoft]

Obviously I have no idea whether this is true or not, but what I can say is that I'll wait for a realiable source to report it before I begin to take it seriously. I'm sorry but reports from anonymous "industry insiders" don't mean a whole lot to me.

On top of that wasn't there an article a couple weeks ago from an actual named developer (possibly from Epic? Not Sure though) who not only said that xbox360 code was easy to port to PS3, but development was actually easier for the ps3 than the 360.

It is funny though, can't people come up with new reasons for Sony to fail? This is pretty much the same stuff we all heard before the PS2 came out, and we all know how disastrous that turned out. Even if the PS3 flops hard I'd bet that its for reasons that haven't been discussed here and at other MS aligned sites.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I want to see all three companies succeed to some degree in this round.

Can anyone imagine a market dominated by just Sony or just Microsoft? That's a pretty damn scary thought, so I hope all three companies do well.

The day we are down to just one console maker is the day I have to quit playing console games. ;)

[LilEvilFish]

Shhhh calm down, you're scaring the normal people. Anyway.

So Sony have invested about $18 million dollars in S/D, surely this is a good thing rather than a bad thing? I assume Sony felt comftable investing this kind of amount and as such are expecting a return on it, we all know they're not stupid when it comes to this kind of planning. This figure covers development of future titles or just one? If this is for all future titles then it will probably have a good impact, no doubt exploring the possibilities of their hardware for future use.

As one of the guys said, all this came around with the PS2, and how everyone would jump ship at the coding difficulties and costs.. didn't stop it really did it?

At the end of the day, they're a company who knows how to read a market, and current trends, and so this investment is probably wholly justified and I doubt it will have a detrimental effect on their empire. They'll just have to tighten their purse strings in future :)

I'm not buying a new console anyway hehe

[fitbabits]

It is funny though, can't people come up with new reasons for Sony to fail? This is pretty much the same stuff we all heard before the PS2 came out, and we all know how disastrous that turned out. Even if the PS3 flops hard I'd bet that its for reasons that haven't been discussed here and at other MS aligned sites.
Personally, I don't want ANY of the big three to fail - competition is a good thing for gamers! Think ICO and any number of Nintendo classics.

What does bother me, though, is that people see Sony as this huge invincible juggernaut that will steamroller everything in its path when the PS3 is released. It's not likely to be as cut-and-dried as that this generation.

[cppcrusader]

Its not that hard to believe. The PlayStations have always been the most developer unfriendly console out there. It only makes sense that the newest one will be an even bigger pain in the ass.

[TheBrainKills]

I thought I read somewhere that the PS3 development tools are going to be based on OpenGL. Is this true? If it is, do they then lease these tools out to developers? Is this the 18 mil cost?

[XenonCJ]

Perhaps the reason Sony makes it so hard to develop for is because it makes the development that much more rewarding!!!!

[Heretic Machine]

Here is what I want to know before I put any weight in this article: Where is this supposed seventeen million dollar investment going, if not to development cost? Because I know it's not going to a dev kit. This question doesn't seem to be answered in this thread, and I can't really browse a whole lot right now because the wi-fi here on campus is pretty screwed right now.

I'm tempted to say that even if a bunch of Japanese developers jumped ship for the 360, the PS3 would still grab first place by the end of next year, and hold it. But I'm gonna take a guess and say that the N64 probably held first place for the first year after it's launch, before everyone realized that all the games were on the PS1 and switched sides. So in theory this could happen for hte 360, we do have precident for a massive shift toward a new industry leader, I just find it unlikely.

[kathode]

What is the 18 million for? Where did they get that number? It's certainly not the cost of the development kits.

IMO, that article is pretty much bullshit.

[Frogleg Special]

What is the 18 million for? Where did they get that number? It's certainly not the cost of the development kits.

IMO, that article is pretty much bullshit.

Does this mean we can still see Oblivion in PS3?

[Roc Ingersol]

Regardless of cross-platform titles, being able to develop with the XNA tools on a PC is a good thing for game companies. This means fewer development kits are necessary for each team, dropping costs and pushing productivity up a notch. It's not huge or anything, but there is more benefit to XNA than just developing cross-platform titles.

That said, $18m sounds fishy in its current context.

[TheKeck]

That's it, the console wars are over!

(I got bored trying to read the whole thread, am I the first one to say it?)

[AspectVoid]

My rational mind says I'm not gonna trust TeamXbox for Sony news just like I wouldn't trust OPM for XBox news. My attitude is the same as always, we'll see what happens.

[fitbabits]

Does this mean we can still see Oblivion in PS3?
Not likely.

[Frogleg Special]

Not likely.

What... you just got a telephatic telegram from Mr. Gavin Carter?

[bapenguin]

What is the 18 million for? Where did they get that number? It's certainly not the cost of the development kits.

IMO, that article is pretty much bullshit.

Maybe it's one of those "Analyst predictions" on the learning curve costs for the programming staff?

[fitbabits]

What... you just got a telephatic telegram from Mr. Gavin Carter?
Nope. If I had received a telepathic telegram with facts, I would not have used the word likely.

[Citizen Philip]

I'm getting really tired with the FUD. In the last two weeks, 50% of the news posts have been about the Xbox. Some of these have been well written, others are just gushing and lack any attempt at an impartial editorial.

I am indifferent to whatever poison you prefer, console, PC or handheld. As long as you enjoy it. But *this* is just irresponsible, none of the linked articles have any fact and are just posting opinions and don't backup any numbers...all summed up quite neatly in a post from an XBOX website. How convient.

Hey OP if you wanted some integrity: I suggest a post where you LINKED the two seperate PS3 posts directly and then mentioned the Xbox post as a source?

[Zanzibar]

License fees up-front for any 'official' Sony middleware ain't cheap - didn't Sony contract out middleware with an exclusive license to some company? If they promised lifetime PS3 middleware commitments (2 or 3 titles), it wouldn't surprise me if that were $8-10 mil right there. But yeah, I doubt $18m unless production costs were included.

[Dafizman]

Gamers, please. We're not dealing with messy "facts" or anything "confirmed" here, so there really is only one way to figure out who's right. We must settle our differences in Ragdoll Kung Fu. THEN, we will know who is right and who is wrong, as it is the victors who shall write the history books.

[jwbxx]

The system isn't even out yet so i cant really pass judgment. But so far only thing that has intrigued me has been mgs4. Since mgs2 made me hate the series, but mgs3 made me love it again, I got to see what happens in mgs4.

[omnithrope]

Objective (adjective -no, it's not the same word, they only sound the same-): undistorted by emotion or personal bias.

I really don't care about this article, but I had to comment on this.

EvAv is in NO WAY objective.
They never have been.

Are you serious?

[Captain Awesome]

This is the same problem people had with the PS1 and 2. It's not easy to code for and its a pain when dealing with licensing fee's, if you're not a first party title. Also windows in general is just alot easier to code for than sony's personal platform.

I hope that isnt the usual cost for these next-gen system. As it is dev costs and employee rates are getting out of hand and its things like this that ruin good game development.

[fitbabits]

I really don't care about this article, but I had to comment on this.

EvAv is in NO WAY objective.
They never have been.

Are you serious?
I respectfully disagree.

[screwtape]

"Whether developers think the initial investment is expensive or inexpensive depends on the balance between its appeal and price. Our goal for PlayStation 3 is for developers to think to themselves, 'I will work more hours to pay for the initial investment.' We want developers to feel that they want it, irrespective of anything else."

Ken's famous quote, tweaked a bit. ;)

[RandomViolence]

One thing I've come to wonder is why Sony fans don't submit more news if they're so upset about this site's slant. This is a community, right? I don't think newsposts get ditched too often around here. If you're pissed about the number of posts finding issues with the PS3, find some information about how Sony's doing right, how they're providing for developers, etc. Don't just be idle and bitch if you have a problem with things, make your own solution. That's one of the great things about EvAv, is that you get to participate in the whole process. Make yourselves heard with newsposts, not "Oh noezz!! Heer cumz teh tree-shitty fanBOIs!"

Edit: To clarify, I'm speaking to a small number of people, the vast majority of posters here are well-spoken.

[kokyunage]

One thing people need to keep in mind is the ratio of news available out there. The Xbox360 will be in retail stores in a few weeks so it only makes sense that they dominate the news. Wait until we near the release of the PS3, I’m sure it will outpace news about the Xbox360 at the time.

[bapenguin]

One thing I've come to wonder is why Sony fans don't submit more news if they're so upset about this site's slant. This is a community, right? I don't think newsposts get ditched too often around here. If you're pissed about the number of posts finding issues with the PS3, find some information about how Sony's doing right, how they're providing for developers, etc. Don't just be idle and bitch if you have a problem with things, make your own solution. That's one of the great things about EvAv, is that you get to participate in the whole process. Make yourselves heard with newsposts, not "Oh noezz!! Heer cumz teh tree-shitty fanBOIs!"

Exactly. Thank you. EvilAvatar is a site which encourages user support. EvilAvatar, Everlost_MI, Liquidize105 and myself are the only "staff" members. Everything else is a user submission.

The reason there's been 50% XBox posts? Oh I don't know maybe cause a new system launches in 5 weeks?

I guess people didn't notice the negative XBox 360 post I POSTED a bit down the page in which Peter Moore suggested MS made a mistake doing a global launch of the 360.

[Citizen Philip]

One thing I've come to wonder is why Sony fans don't submit more news if they're so upset about this site's slant. This is a community, right? I don't think newsposts get ditched too often around here. If you're pissed about the number of posts finding issues with the PS3, find some information about how Sony's doing right, how they're providing for developers, etc. Don't just be idle and bitch if you have a problem with things, make your own solution. That's one of the great things about EvAv, is that you get to participate in the whole process. Make yourselves heard with newsposts, not "Oh noezz!! Heer cumz teh tree-shitty fanBOIs!"

Edit: To clarify, I'm speaking to a small number of people, the vast majority of posters here are well-spoken.

Are you suggesting everyone should start submitting news posts based on rumour and no fact? A console system is launched/about to launch, the press is high, plenty of posts are expected and usually appreciated: WHEN they are grounded in fact.

I believe the line being drawn here is: news posts attacking rival consoles, during its own launch, with no verifiable fact - posted amongst the more reliable new items HURTS the community it doesn't encourage it. At best it starts pointless flamewars.

[Dirty Harry]

I respectfully disagree.
I strongly disagree with your sentiments. I find this site has over 80% microsoft support and rooughly 20% between sony and nintendo. Every other news post as of late has been complete sony bashing with all this snide remarks everyone thinks is just so funny the 100th time. It really turns me off of this site when the editors themselves are fanboys and find no harm in greenlighting these anti sony posts, they dont even go to the lengths of changing the news title to something less shit stirring.

[Heretic Machine]

First, let me say that claiming that rumors don't (or shouldn't) fuel the video game news world is bullshit. Rumors are good as long as they have some basis, which this does. The problem here is that we don't have enough information on what they are talking about, like where this money is supposed to be going, or what "insiders" were talking like this. The news post is still very valid, and ripe for debate.

Second:

I guess people didn't notice the negative XBox 360 post I POSTED a bit down the page in which Peter Moore suggested MS made a mistake doing a global launch of the 360.

That wasn't really negative. If anything, it sort of gave me this whole "Microsoft is the underdog" sort of impression. Which they sort of are, but still, it didn't strike me as particurally negative. But anyhow, of course there is more news about the console coming out next month than the console coming out this time next year. I'm not bitching about the lack of Revolution news here, because there isn't much to be reported, just as there isn't very much Sony news to be reported.

[Demo_Boy]

Well if the PS3 dev kits "cost" 1 million dollars each to get, then I could see the startup costs being 17mil.

Mind you I think when you return the kits you get your money back?

[Achilles]

In the last two weeks, 50% of the news posts have been about the Xbox. Some of these have been well written, others are just gushing and lack any attempt at an impartial editorial.That's because they just had an event and they’re going to launch in 6 weeks. Wouldn’t it be stranger not to have more than 1 or 2 articles on the 360 given that it’s coming out so soon? You may remember previously when Nintendo had a Revolution event and there were 6 nearly identical articles discussing the controller and how great it would be, most of which got over 100 posts, mostly gushing about how amazing it'll be. Not to mention all of the analysts articles and other articles that went along with that.

It's also strange that you'd post that there is too much Xbox news in a PS3 article.

[Zanzibar]

On Xbox 360 news reporting: Waaah. Go find some different news if you think it's unbalanced, but yeah, being that the X360 is gonna hit the streets in a few weeks and there's a LOT of buzz (hype?) about it. People in the industry are starting to talk, and when they get quoted, it's news.

I mean, it'd be different if somebody quoted ME saying 'PS3 won't be out until 2007 earliest,' because I don't have a lot of insider info. But these are guys who claim to be 'in the know' with Sony, to the point of being able to quote Kutaragi. If it's bullshit, then you'll see Sony call bullshit - but if they're silent, then perhaps we should give the articles the benefit of the doubt, eh? 'Anonymous sources' are good enough for the news media, the games media shouldn't be held to any higher standard simply because they're reporting potentially bad news about YOUR FAVORITE CONSOLE.

[fitbabits]

I strongly disagree with your sentiments. I find this site has over 80% microsoft support and rooughly 20% between sony and nintendo. Every other news post as of late has been complete sony bashing with all this snide remarks everyone thinks is just so funny the 100th time. It really turns me off of this site when the editors themselves are fanboys and find no harm in greenlighting these anti sony posts, they dont even go to the lengths of changing the news title to something less shit stirring.
Again, I respectfully disagree. My reasons are as follows:

Remember the poll that was carried out a while ago? It's right here (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430) if your memory needs refreshing. Look at the results and you'll see that your 80% Microsoft and 20% between Sony & Nintendo statement is off base.

Do you have some positive (or negative) Sony/Nintendo news? Submit it to the 'staff' members and get it posted.

Microsoft has a new console coming out in a little over one month and they are making all the noise/news/waves/whatever. Sony has been very quiet recently, as has Nintendo (not counting the Revolution controller). Don't forget that Sony were very bullish at E3. And you also have to remember that X05 just took place.

[jacktion]

I find this site has over 80% microsoft support and rooughly 20% between sony and nintendo.


It's not that this site has a pro-xbox bias, it is just that sony is so stupid and crappy. :eek:

[TheKeck]

Remember the poll that was carried out a while ago? It's right here (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430) if your memory needs refreshing. Look at the results and you'll see that your 80% Microsoft and 20% between Sony & Nintendo statement is off base.

Ooh, ooh, don't forget my poll (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5964). If anything, it appears that there are more Sony diehard fans than the other two consoles.

[Voodoo]

http://diablo.sytes.net/ccannon/TheLotion.jpg

[TheKeck]

http://diablo.sytes.net/ccannon/TheLotion.jpg

So.... is this some arcane geek reference that I'm supposed know what means?

If so.... somebody please explain..... :(

EDIT: So, after a little research, Silence of the Lambs reference.

[fitbabits]

Ooh, ooh, don't forget my poll (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5964). If anything, it appears that there are more Sony diehard fans than the other two consoles.
Sorry, mate. I'm at work and didn't have the time to link to your poll. I'm glad that you did, though.

[Evak]

Middleware can be expensive, typicaly 3rd party middleware is only about $10,000 per licence per title.

Sony PS2 dev kits were terrible, Back in 2003 when I was working on a game, we found that most devs stayed 2 or 3 SDK builds behind in order to keep stability and hope that new problems would be fixed somewhere down the road.

PS2 didn't even have a proper video codec for FMV that would synch the audio correctly. They had something that was broken, forcing us to create our own. At the time Bink tools didn't support PS2, as sony claimed that their system came with the tools out the box. We asked them for a PS2 version, would be funny if we were in part responsible for the PS2 version.

In comparrison Xbox was a dream to work with. tru realtime performance analysis on the debug kits losing only a handful of FPS, compared to 5-6FPS total on the same game with PS2.

The PS2 test kits had to have all art assets loaded over the network from a PC in order to save development time, that was on a 10mb thernet and required a reset of the PS2 each time you load up the game, and a synch with the PC.

Xbox debug kits, you transfer to the HD at 100mbit and did a soft reset to a menu. Almost instant gratification for artists wanting to check their work out, compared to 2-5 minutes wait if the PS2 DVD rom woudl allow the PS2 to boot correctly.

Microsoft had by far the best tools and libs with their last generation, and it looks like XNA will be even better.

[Phades]

First, let me say that claiming that rumors don't (or shouldn't) fuel the video game news world is bullshit. Rumors are good as long as they have some basis, which this does. The problem here is that we don't have enough information on what they are talking about, like where this money is supposed to be going, or what "insiders" were talking like this. The news post is still very valid, and ripe for debate.

Second:



That wasn't really negative. If anything, it sort of gave me this whole "Microsoft is the underdog" sort of impression. Which they sort of are, but still, it didn't strike me as particurally negative. But anyhow, of course there is more news about the console coming out next month than the console coming out this time next year. I'm not bitching about the lack of Revolution news here, because there isn't much to be reported, just as there isn't very much Sony news to be reported.

OH MY GOD!!! I actually..... agree with you Perigon. :) That rarely happens. Now excuse me while I go huddle in a corner and shiver uncontrollably.

Great post.

[TheKeck]

Sorry, mate. I'm at work and didn't have the time to link to your poll. I'm glad that you did, though.

No worries. I wouldn't expect you to link my poll, I just wanted to back you up, oh.... and maybe get a few more votes. ;)

[Zanzibar]

No worries. I wouldn't expect you to link my poll, I just wanted to back you up, oh.... and maybe get a few more votes. ;)

Jeez. Can you guys talk about your polls somewhere else? There may be children reading this, as evidenced by the Sony contingent. </rimshot>

[Magnanimous Gnome]

My poll number is about 10.


What? :confused:


Edit - Oops, forgot that this is the Internet. Post corrected accordingly.

[Citizen Philip]

That's because they just had an event and they’re going to launch in 6 weeks. Wouldn’t it be stranger not to have more than 1 or 2 articles on the 360 given that it’s coming out so soon? You may remember previously when Nintendo had a Revolution event and there were 6 nearly identical articles discussing the controller and how great it would be, most of which got over 100 posts, mostly gushing about how amazing it'll be. Not to mention all of the analysts articles and other articles that went along with that.

It's also strange that you'd post that there is too much Xbox news in a PS3 article.

Lots of excited posts about a new console release are expected: From developers of the system and the game developers themselves and their individual/collective press & marketing events. That is all totally cool, I'm down with that.

Your last comment has left me at odds to respond: Is the article in question Xbox or PS3 news?

[fitbabits]

Jeez. Can you guys talk about your polls somewhere else? There may be children reading this, as evidenced by the Sony contingent. </rimshot>
Speaking of rimshots (and TOTALLY off topic), lookie:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a390/fitbabits/fitbabitsdrumming.jpg

[Kelegacy]

I agree, Xbox news should be outnumbering the PS3 stuff, if only because of an upcoming launch. That said, I'd better see some of you posting PS3 stuff in a few months, when the system starts coming together for its own March launch in Japan (hopefully).

It's the simple truth that more people here favor Microsoft's machines than any others. It's also easy to see which editors enjoy which platform because their newposts and comments usually revolve around those systems. Besides PumpedUp, I don't know any hardcore Sony fanboys here. I can think of a few Nintendo loyalists (i dont really enjoy the word fanboy, though I used it last sentence) but not as many as the Microsoft crowd. This doesn't bother me usually, unless trolls start popping up in threads (and I'm just as guilty as anyone else) or the same banal arguements are used to attack another company. People badmouthing Sony for its evil lies is tired and old. People saying that Nintendo's system is for kiddies is retarded. J. Allard being homosexual also might be wrong. At least pretend to be objective, even if you aren't.

Please, do it for the children.

[rainbowblack]

wow might i be the only person here who does not give a rats ass

unlike the majority of people posting online, i might be an acuall "Gamer" i dont play favorites. i simply buy all three systems and play its games and enjoy myself. why cant everyone make thier lives simpler and do the same? seriously. does MS pay you to troll? if so then..um...troll away

[fitbabits]

wow might i be the only person here who does not give a rats ass

unlike the majority of people posting online, i might be an acuall "Gamer" i dont play favorites. i simply buy all three systems and play its games and enjoy myself. why cant everyone make thier lives simpler and do the same? seriously. does MS pay you to troll? if so then..um...troll away
Who rattled your cage? :rolleyes:

Not everyone is in a position to afford every console, so they therefore have to make a decision based on all the available information. For the record, I have all three current gen consoles (and lots more besides) - does that mean I'm then a gamer troll?

For someone who doesn't give a rat's ass, you make a poor attempt at convincing anyone.

[Schnoogs]

It cracks me up that people think competition is good for the gamer...

Having more than one system to be honest sucks...so in order to play Halo 3 and MGS4 I have to fork out something like $800 for the 2 systems and then $100 for the games. If there was one system then I would only have to spend $400 for the one system.

It's a total joke that I had to by the PS2, the XBox, and the GameCube just to play a few games. You go broke buying systems.

Competition my ass...we get screwed through all of these exclusive titles.

[Zeal]

Please, do it for the children.
http://www.sutv.org/zod-sticker.gif

[fitbabits]

It cracks me up that people think competition is good for the gamer...

Having more than one system to be honest sucks...so in order to play Halo 3 and MGS4 I have to fork out something like $800 for the 2 systems and then $100 for the games. If there was one system then I would only have to spend $400 for the one system.

It's a total joke that I had to by the PS2, the XBox, and the GameCube just to play a few games. You go broke buying systems.

Competition my ass...we get screwed through all of these exclusive titles.
It cracks me up that your view of things is so narrow - you're seriously saying that competition is a bad thing? Without the PS2 there would possibly be no Xbox and hence no Halo 2, etc. Competition drives companies to beat the competition by releasing better consoles and (hoepfully) better games for their console.

[dr_wily]

jesus christ people, i just read through 8 pages of responses and none of them even takes into consideration the link comes from an XBOX site.

not the most objective journalism in the world here folks. :P

[Schnoogs]

Thanks for the economics 101...

You missed my point completely.....competition is great when there is one standard and manufacturers compete to make the best product. Like for the most part DVD players, TVs, etc.

In the case of consoles the competition is between standards...like VHS vs Beta or DVD-A vs SACD. That is not good for the consumer...

I like the PC world becasuse ATI and NVidia battle it out over the same standard...this ensures that the consumer gets a cheaper price and has the freedom of choice.

[Heretic Machine]

wow might i be the only person here who does not give a rats ass

unlike the majority of people posting online, i might be an acuall "Gamer" i dont play favorites. i simply buy all three systems and play its games and enjoy myself. why cant everyone make thier lives simpler and do the same? seriously. does MS pay you to troll? if so then..um...troll away

Bleh, stop being a jack-ass. I own all three consoles too, that doesn't mean I'm blind, or that I'm somehow superior to all gamers who only own one console. Go be a rich-dick elsewhere.

[Heretic Machine]

jesus christ people, i just read through 8 pages of responses and none of them even takes into consideration the link comes from an XBOX site.

not the most objective journalism in the world here folks. :P

If by none, you mean the first four pages... My very first post in this thread points this out, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the first.

[Kentor]

It cracks me up that your view of things is so narrow - you're seriously saying that competition is a bad thing? Without the PS2 there would possibly be no Xbox and hence no Halo 2, etc. Competition drives companies to beat the competition by releasing better consoles and (hoepfully) better games for their console.
You mean no Halo period. If MS didn't buy Bungie they would have went out of business.

[Zanzibar]

It cracks me up that people think competition is good for the gamer...

Having more than one system to be honest sucks...so in order to play Halo 3 and MGS4 I have to fork out something like $800 for the 2 systems and then $100 for the games. If there was one system then I would only have to spend $400 for the one system.

It's a total joke that I had to by the PS2, the XBox, and the GameCube just to play a few games. You go broke buying systems.

Competition my ass...we get screwed through all of these exclusive titles.

Without competition, companies have no reason to work to make superior games. Take a look at Madden 2006 - now that Electronic Arts has no competition for their NFL football license, they released a substandard product.

[rainbowblack]

Who rattled your cage? :rolleyes:

Not everyone is in a position to afford every console, so they therefore have to make a decision based on all the available information. For the record, I have all three current gen consoles (and lots more besides) - does that mean I'm then a gamer troll?

For someone who doesn't give a rat's ass, you make a poor attempt at convincing anyone.

im not ladden with cash or anything nor do i buy systems on release day (with the exception of the 360 and the N64) but eventually i'll end up with all three systems whether new or used. i didint get my hands on an x-box until march of this year. no ive yet to play every good game the system has to offer but ive played a fair amount and im happy to own an x-box. although having more than one system does mean im unable to play every great game for each system. thats about the only drawback. one im comfortable with

[fitbabits]

jesus christ people, i just read through 8 pages of responses and none of them even takes into consideration the link comes from an XBOX site.

not the most objective journalism in the world here folks. :P
The article was posted on an Xbox site, but the information came from two PS3 sites. Look back and try filling in the gaps.

[Goronmon]

The only thing I find lacking is any numbers relating to initial development costs for the 360. Anyone have these types of numbers?

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't at least close to what is being projected for PS3.

[fitbabits]

Without competition, companies have no reason to work to make superior games. Take a look at Madden 2006 - now that Electronic Arts has no competition for their NFL football license, they released a substandard product.
What have you done? Mentioning Electronic Arts and Madden in a negative way is like saying Candyman three times to some people. :)

[Goronmon]

jesus christ people, i just read through 8 pages of responses and none of them even takes into consideration the link comes from an XBOX site.

not the most objective journalism in the world here folks. :P
And the XBox site links to a PS3 site, your point is?

The location of the article doesn't make it any less or more true.

[fitbabits]

You mean no Halo period. If MS didn't buy Bungie they would have went out of business.
Right, but I stuck with Halo 2 because that was what was originally mentioned.

[TheKeck]

Thanks for the economics 101...

You missed my point completely.....competition is great when there is one standard and manufacturers compete to make the best product. Like for the most part DVD players, TVs, etc.

In the case of consoles the competition is between standards...like VHS vs Beta or DVD-A vs SACD. That is not good for the consumer...

I like the PC world becasuse ATI and NVidia battle it out over the same standard...this ensures that the consumer gets a cheaper price and has the freedom of choice.

Good rebuttal. At first, when you made the blanket statement about competition being bad, I thought you were being an idiot. However, when you put a more reasonable and specific slant on it, you've actually made a really good point.

[Zeal]

jesus christ people, i just read through 8 pages of responses and none of them even takes into consideration the link comes from an XBOX site.

not the most objective journalism in the world here folks. :P

Kinda hard to miss, considering the site is called TEAM XBOX.

C'mon man, you're supposed to be Dr. Wily.

[DannoHung]

18M seems a little high.

I wonder if someone put a decimal point in the wrong place.

[Phades]

Thanks for the economics 101...

You missed my point completely.....competition is great when there is one standard and manufacturers compete to make the best product. Like for the most part DVD players, TVs, etc.

In the case of consoles the competition is between standards...like VHS vs Beta or DVD-A vs SACD. That is not good for the consumer...

I like the PC world becasuse ATI and NVidia battle it out over the same standard...this ensures that the consumer gets a cheaper price and has the freedom of choice.

Good point. It'll never happen but it'd sure be nice if there was a standard for consoles. Imagine having to buy certain players for specific movies. That's essentially what exists in the gaming world today.

Unfortunately, the console business model doesn't make this kind of thing feasible. If that kind of thing happened, consoles would be too expensive without the manufacture being able to subsidize costs through licensing and game sales.

[codswallop]

it could squeeze out the smaller developers that make the quirky, innovative, and downright cool games that all of us hardcore folks know and love
Looks to me like Nintendo's chasing them this generation...

It'll never happen but it'd sure be nice if there was a standard for consoles.
Depends on whether or not Microsoft gets their way. They've stated a number of times this is what they want (as long as it's their standard, of course).

[moron]

This makes no sense:

The industry insider went on to say, “Kutaragi has said, ‘Please develop suitable software for PS3 - this software must not be of the same standard as PS2 software.’ Developing software for the PS3 from scratch will require an initial investment of at least 2 billion yen [US $17.6 million] [not including development costs]. There are not many software companies that can easily afford that kind of money.”

What exactly is the 17 million going on if not development costs? Are the dev kits themselves supposed to be 17 million (sounds highly implausible)? If not that quote sounds like it was mis-translated since the 17 million has to go on something and if not development then what?

Cheers

[Voodoo]

http://yaplog.jp/lespritbrutal/img/66/WoWScrnShot_012805_190701.jpg

[Murmillo]

Now this is a thread!. I have nothing to say, I'm just going to walk around waving my xbox flag around like a wild nut job.

[31 Flavas]

I'll do the same, but with my DS and Revolution flags.

[Achilles]

Your last comment has left me at odds to respond: Is the article in question Xbox or PS3 news?I'd say that it is. It's a negative article, and MS as the competition benefits. But I wouldn't say that anything saying the PS3 is less than perfect immediately becomes an article about the 360. The discussion becomes that because of the nature of competition, but the article itself isn't. Otherwise to balance you'd have to actively go find good news on all three systems all the time, and a lot of times that news just doesn't exist because of how information is released by these companies.

A couple weeks ago we were drowning in good/bad news about the Revolution. There were hardly any articles about the 360 or the PS3. That doesn't mean the site has bias toward the Revolution, it just means there was a heck of a lot of news, either positive or negative about it at the time, so that's what was being reported.

This site was late on really reporting on X05, which I was surprised at, but now with all of the bapenguin previews, it only makes sense that it takes up a lot of space on the front page. The PS3 however has mostly rumor coming out about it because bap can't go play their games and they are saying very little about their system.

That's my take on it anyway. When this site is waxing Nintendo in a hard way, and burning Zeal at the stake in 200 post threads, nobody is complaining that it's an MS site. X05 happens, bap gets a preview and all of a sudden this is an Xbox fansite again. It's hypocritical, not that I'm accusing you of that, but the folks who think that way should realize that it is.

And to those who say this is from an Xbox fan site, you should really re-read the first sentance of the article. I know it's strange to have to read an article you're commenting on, heck I hardly do it myself, but it explains that this information comes from PS3 fan sites and a Japanese article.

[Bushido]

Sony= Japan
Xbox= America
Nintendo= Canada

[Dirty Harry]

Sony= Japan
Xbox= America
Nintendo= Canada
canada? hmmm well thats cool but nintendo needs to make more games.

[Okamura_Takashi]

In Soviet Russia, the Playstation 3 develops you!

Anyways, there have been a couple good points in between all the flaming. Basically, the 18million figure is not quite off the mark but they forgot to put what they are including in that figure. I can see development costs upwards of 18million if you figure in:

- Development systems (ex. $100,000 per system for ~8 programmers = $800,000)
- Art pipeline changes/software purchases (ex. Maya licenses for CG staff @ $10,000 for ~20 CG = $200,000)
- Middleware fees (ex. Epic's Unreal Engine based on Unreal2 prices $1,000,000 per game)
- People (programmers + artists = expensive)

then I can see a figure close to 18million. But, these are only startup fees for devkits and software which can be reused again. Not a big deal.

[BabyJesus]

Sony is a large corporation and as you know corporations have no feet.

[Kelegacy]

After all the launches are out of the way, things should get back to "normal". Is this the website's first console launch? Because once this collective corporate ass kissing is out of the way, we will have the games to fight about. And fighting about games is much more fun than fighting about hardware and coporations.

[RandomViolence]

http://yaplog.jp/lespritbrutal/img/66/WoWScrnShot_012805_190701.jpg

WTF is this??? Goddammit I hate picture posts.

[Danin]

They said the same stuff about the PS2 - and we all know how horrible that went for Sony...

Because the PS2 didn't beat Xbox and GCN to market by a year and have a massive install base by the time any competition came along or anything.

[Major Dan]

Me juzt a tupid troll tonite, me tinks SONY, is goin to cost many shineys to mak neu games fer. dey don't care bout nobodi but demselfs dis timey an dey mabe mak sum stupidz decisuns dis timey. Me donzt tink it will hertz dem to bad but dey lose sum gam makres dis timey. Dat all me can sey! :D

[RandomViolence]

Me juzt a tupid troll tonite, me tinks SONY, is goin to cost many shineys to mak neu games fer. dey don't care bout nobodi but demselfs dis timey an dey mabe mak sum stupidz decisuns dis timey. Me donzt tink it will hertz dem to bad but dey lose sum gam makres dis timey. Dat all me can sey! :D

My eyes are bleeding! :(

[Kelegacy]

Me juzt a tupid troll tonite, me tinks SONY, is goin to cost many shineys to mak neu games fer. dey don't care bout nobodi but demselfs dis timey an dey mabe mak sum stupidz decisuns dis timey. Me donzt tink it will hertz dem to bad but dey lose sum gam makres dis timey. Dat all me can sey! :D

Your Terry Goodkind signature reference suits you well. People ARE, and you're a people.

[Major Dan]

Your Terry Goodkind signature reference suits you well. People ARE, and you're a people.


I slipped back into my Troll talk for Everquest for some reason, but thanks for bringing me out of it. ;)

[Magnanimous Gnome]

J. Allard being homosexual also might be wrong.

Please, do it for the children.


I thought J. Allard was homosexual FOR the children??



You mean no Halo period. If MS didn't buy Bungie they would have went out of business.

Is this really true? I don't remember Bungie being in dire financial straits. I personally wish that they had stayed independent. That way we could get more variety, instead of just Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 4, etc. I miss the MYTH series. :(

Independent developers are practically nonexistant these days. The only one that comes to my mind is Bethesda, although I am sure there are a couple others. Gone are the days when most developers self-published. EA, MS, and the like bought them all.


What have you done? Mentioning Electronic Arts and Madden in a negative way is like saying Candyman three times to some people. :)

You mean like this:

Player 1, Player 1, Player 1. :D


Is this the website's first console launch?


By "website" do you mean Evil Avatar? If so then the answer is no. The site was around during the launches of the PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox. Back in the "good ol' days." I'm not sure exactly when the site started, but I remember visiting and posting way back then.

[nonchalance]

Independent developers are practically nonexistant these days. The only one that comes to my mind is Bethesda, although I am sure there are a couple others.

Name five in ten seconds.
Bioware
Infinite-Interactive
IRGurus
Creative Assembly
Pandemic

[Kelegacy]

I thought J. Allard was homosexual FOR the children??





Is this really true? I don't remember Bungie being in dire financial straits. I personally wish that they had stayed independent. That way we could get more variety, instead of just Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 4, etc. I miss the MYTH series. :(

Independent developers are practically nonexistant these days. The only one that comes to my mind is Bethesda, although I am sure there are a couple others. Gone are the days when most developers self-published. EA, MS, and the like bought them all.




You mean like this:

Player 1, Player 1, Player 1. :D





By "website" do you mean Evil Avatar? If so then the answer is no. The site was around during the launches of the PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox. Back in the "good ol' days." I'm not sure exactly when the site started, but I remember visiting and posting way back then.

I forgot Bungie made the Myth games. Huh.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Thanks for the economics 101...

You missed my point completely.....competition is great when there is one standard and manufacturers compete to make the best product. Like for the most part DVD players, TVs, etc.

In the case of consoles the competition is between standards...like VHS vs Beta or DVD-A vs SACD. That is not good for the consumer...

I like the PC world becasuse ATI and NVidia battle it out over the same standard...this ensures that the consumer gets a cheaper price and has the freedom of choice.
Are you kidding?? Seriously?
If there was no competition, then one company would have a monopoly over all of console gaming. They could charge exhorbitant amounts of money in royalties to the game manufacturers. What incentive would they have to lower the cost of the game machine. They would feel less need to cater to the needs of the gamer. Companies have a choice on which systems they develop for, and they get breaks and/or incentives to develop content for those systems exclusively. Innovation would lie with developers...so where would that leave hardware innovation (rumble packs, nintendo's controller, dual analog sticks)?
As it stands now, companies have to stay competitive and that lowers the costs the consumer pays. The idea that competition hurs the consumer is incredibly naive.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

In Soviet Russia, the Playstation 3 develops you!

Anyways, there have been a couple good points in between all the flaming. Basically, the 18million figure is not quite off the mark but they forgot to put what they are including in that figure. I can see development costs upwards of 18million if you figure in:

- Development systems (ex. $100,000 per system for ~8 programmers = $800,000)
- Art pipeline changes/software purchases (ex. Maya licenses for CG staff @ $10,000 for ~20 CG = $200,000)
- Middleware fees (ex. Epic's Unreal Engine based on Unreal2 prices $1,000,000 per game)
- People (programmers + artists = expensive)

then I can see a figure close to 18million. But, these are only startup fees for devkits and software which can be reused again. Not a big deal.
But do not forget, that the next gen systems are rumored to need several additional programmers. With the PS3 being touted as much harder to program for, you may need to add additional programmers to that. Plus, the learning curve to get the most out of the 7 SPE's and 1 main CPU will not be easy. Lastly, it has been said that MS is extremely helpful if a team gets stuck on a programming issue...I have no idea how good PS3 assistance program is.
What we need is a firm price tag of what this generation's start up costs are. Then we can compare them.

[mister_slim]

Without competition, companies have no reason to work to make superior games. Take a look at Madden 2006 - now that Electronic Arts has no competition for their NFL football license, they released a substandard product.
Controller evolution is another area where competition is good.
The article was posted on an Xbox site, but the information came from two PS3 sites. Look back and try filling in the gaps.
Yeah, cherry picking a poor translation of a three week old tabloid article.

What exactly is the 17 million going on if not development costs? Are the dev kits themselves supposed to be 17 million (sounds highly implausible)? If not that quote sounds like it was mis-translated since the 17 million has to go on something and if not development then what?
They may be talking about dev kits (which are about 20k a piece, if I remember correctly), middleware and tools (where MS probably has an edge, but not that significant, or they may just be making up nonsense. It was bullshit when I first read it three weeks ago, and it's still bullshit.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Name five in ten seconds.
Bioware
Infinite-Interactive
IRGurus
Creative Assembly
Pandemic


Bioware doesn't self publish (they are fairly independent though). Never heard of Infinite or IRGurus. Not sure about Pandemic. Creative Assembly is owned by SEGA now. ;)


I forgot Bungie made the Myth games. Huh.


Blasphemy!!

Bend over for your spanking boy!

[nonchalance]

If there was no competition, then one company would have a monopoly over all of console gaming.

Way to miss the point.

The ideal is an open standard that lets anybody build consoles that can read it.

So not "PS3 and Revolution die and only X2 remains" but "all three consoles exist, and you can play any game on any one of them".

It's utopian.

[mister_slim]

It's so easy to forget how the CD-I dominated gaming back in the day.

[nonchalance]

Bioware doesn't self publish (they are fairly independent though). Never heard of Infinite or IRGurus. Not sure about Pandemic. Creative Assembly is owned by SEGA now. ;)

Ah, the definition of "independent" is "self-publishing", now?
My definition was "an independent company not owned by a publisher"
By your definition, most of my examples are crap, and independent developers are very very rare. (although the CA one is wrong by either definition - I missed that announcement)


Infinite don't self-publish, although they did when they were SSG - the Warlords series is the name you might recognise.

IRGurus used the film-development model, where they get significant money from investors and could be more or less publisher-independent for Heroes of the Pacific, although Ubisoft did the distribution and marketing side, it was a true partnership. They also do publisher-funded titles, such as the recent Australian Rules Football game, funded by SCE.

Pandemic did Destroy All Humans! - it's published by THQ. Pandemic do apparently own all intellectual property for the game, though.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Way to miss the point.

The ideal is an open standard that lets anybody build consoles that can read it.

So not "PS3 and Revolution die and only X2 remains" but "all three consoles exist, and you can play any game on any one of them".

It's utopian.
I thought we had that...its called a pc.

What you are suggesting makes very little sense. MS, Sony and Nintendo would be reduced to being development houses. What is the incentive to research, develop and market a console if you had no control over it?

Yeah, it would be great if cheeseburgers grew on trees and there were bj fairies floating around. But somethings just aren't meant to be.

mmm, cheeseburger

[nonchalance]

Yeah, it would be great if cheeseburgers grew on trees and there were bj fairies floating around. But somethings just aren't meant to be.

I know.
But wouldn't it be nice?

[Schnoogs]

Are you kidding?? Seriously?
If there was no competition, then one company would have a monopoly over all of console gaming. They could charge exhorbitant amounts of money in royalties to the game manufacturers. What incentive would they have to lower the cost of the game machine. They would feel less need to cater to the needs of the gamer. Companies have a choice on which systems they develop for, and they get breaks and/or incentives to develop content for those systems exclusively. Innovation would lie with developers...so where would that leave hardware innovation (rumble packs, nintendo's controller, dual analog sticks)?
As it stands now, companies have to stay competitive and that lowers the costs the consumer pays. The idea that competition hurs the consumer is incredibly naive.

The fact that you dont read the posts you respond to is ignorance...my post was about competition between standards. Anyone with half an IQ point knows that when the consumer is presented with multiple standards they are forced to either sit on the fence indefinitly or take the financial plunge and support both.

My advice to you is to read up on the format war between HDDVD and Blu-Ray and you'll see why competeing standards is bad for the consumer...DVD was a great success because we only saw competition in the DVD players and not the format.

[Achilles]

Is this really true? I don't remember Bungie being in dire financial straits. I personally wish that they had stayed independent. That way we could get more variety, instead of just Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 4, etc. I miss the MYTH series. :( Before MS bought controlling share in Bungie it was owned by Take Two. They were the ones that Bungie was making Halo for originally, but Take Two sold them so they'd have enough money to finish GTA3. Take Two was in dire financial straits in a big way, and continued to be for a year after the release of GTA:3.

[Chris_D]

Hmm 80% of EA are xbox? According to this still current poll:
http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5964

PC - 26
PS2 - 18
Xbox - 17
GC - 11

If anything EA is a bunch of pc lovers who haven't realised that their platform of choice is dead :p. I voted ps2, even though its a POS, there are too many damn games on it.

I would say that nintendo fans are the most vocal on this site, in threads, if not in news posts (not necessarily in an obnoxious way).

[Chris_D]

To the bit about pc games in japan, well they are actually quite popular. However they are mainly dating games, sims (like the train driving simulator), and console style rpgs (ys). I suspect mmorpgs will quickly get more popular too with proliferation of broadband and better localisations.

[Kefkataran]

Admittedly, I haven't read all of the posts on this thread, but...

anyone else think it might not be the best idea to look to TEAMXBOX for fair reporting on Sony?

...just saying.

[Nessus]

That way we could get more variety, instead of just Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 4, etc.

I sorta feel the same way about Retro Studios. I wish they'd get a chance to develop some IPs other than Metroid Prime. Raven Blade sounded interesting before they cancelled it.

[Zanzibar]

Admittedly, I haven't read all of the posts on this thread, but...

anyone else think it might not be the best idea to look to TEAMXBOX for fair reporting on Sony?

...just saying.

It's been mentioned a coupla times that the TeamXbox article is just reporting the existence of two OTHER articles from PS3-friendly websites reporting the same quotes.

[Kefkataran]

It's been mentioned a coupla times that the TeamXbox article is just reporting the existence of two OTHER articles from PS3-friendly websites reporting the same quotes.

Right. Well, if I was really very concerned or upset, I'd take the effort to look up those two articles and see how much interpretation was done by TeamXBox, but I'm not. *shrug*

[Chris_D]

Someone quoted from one of the PS3 sites, it was pretty much on the mark. Of course you can always check for yourself :).

[bapenguin]

Who said Myth? Let's hope that's the new title Bungie is working on besides Halo 3. I love those f'n games.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Ah, the definition of "independent" is "self-publishing", now?
My definition was "an independent company not owned by a publisher"
By your definition, most of my examples are crap, and independent developers are very very rare. (although the CA one is wrong by either definition - I missed that announcement)


Infinite don't self-publish, although they did when they were SSG - the Warlords series is the name you might recognise.

IRGurus used the film-development model, where they get significant money from investors and could be more or less publisher-independent for Heroes of the Pacific, although Ubisoft did the distribution and marketing side, it was a true partnership. They also do publisher-funded titles, such as the recent Australian Rules Football game, funded by SCE.

Pandemic did Destroy All Humans! - it's published by THQ. Pandemic do apparently own all intellectual property for the game, though.


Yeah, I guess my definition was a little narrow - sorry about that.

Sad about Creative Assembly, I enjoyed their PC titles, but I have a feeling we won't be seeing many more of them.

I loved SSG back in the day! I still fire up Warlords on my old Mac SE. Great frickin game! Thanks for the memories. :)


I sorta feel the same way about Retro Studios. I wish they'd get a chance to develop some IPs other than Metroid Prime. Raven Blade sounded interesting before they cancelled it.

I definitely agree. Some developers get stuck doing the same game over and over for a publisher. Maxis comes to mind here. ;)


Who said Myth? Let's hope that's the new title Bungie is working on besides Halo 3. I love those f'n games.

I said Myth! Unfortunately Bungie no longer has the rights to the Myth franchise - those rights belong to Take Two as part of the MS buyout deal. Hence why we got the shitty Myth 3, which I just pretend didn't exist.

Edit-
I have Myth: The Total Codec. It contains Myth 1, 2, and several additions to each title. Great little set that I picked up for $20 back in the day.

[dr_wily]

If by none, you mean the first four pages... My very first post in this thread points this out, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the first.

The article was posted on an Xbox site, but the information came from two PS3 sites. Look back and try filling in the gaps.

And the XBox site links to a PS3 site, your point is?

The location of the article doesn't make it any less or more true.

Kinda hard to miss, considering the site is called TEAM XBOX.

C'mon man, you're supposed to be Dr. Wily.


..

LOL I just got pwnd
finally a man gets some response for his need of flamattention. :)

[nonchalance]

I loved SSG back in the day! I still fire up Warlords on my old Mac SE. Great frickin game! Thanks for the memories. :)

It was awesome indeed.
SSG basically turned into two companies - the old-style wargames branch, which is what they did before (and as well as) Warlords, and the Warlords branch, which renamed itself Infinite Interactive (www.infinite-interactive.com).

Heroes of the Aussie game industry, in my opinion.