XBox 360 Hands on Preview

[bapenguin]

Yesterday I got to spend some quality time with the XBox 360 console and a bunch of games. I'll be posting up a bunch of articles on the event and the titles. First up is impressions of the system itself and XBox Live Arcade.

You can find the article in our forums (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=112459#post112459).

All Live arcade titles are in 1080i. Some of the original titles are really sharp looking with bright color and smooth animations with fast and furious action. There’s a title from Bizarre Creations called Geometry Wars. Think Tempest meets Asteroids meets Smash TV. It’s a blast to play and looks amazing. I honestly couldn’t put the damn game down. There’s a puzzle game from the creator of Tetris called Hexic HD. This will be included free with the system.
The whole event was just surreal. I can't thank Microsoft enough for allowing me the opportunity to attend the event.

[IndependentGMR]

Well, no wonder they let you in. They knew you'd come back here to kiss their ass. Just kidding, dude. I'm just jealous. Haha!

[Roc Ingersol]

If they honestly support indy developers, I'll offer up my torso to host their demon seed.

[fitbabits]

OH. MY. GOD!!!!!! Can I have your little baby penguins??

Awesome work, bapenguin, and thanks for doing this for EvAv!

One thing confuses me, though - why didn't Perigon get an invite? :D

[Heretic Machine]

One thing confuses me, though - why didn't Perigon get an invite?


Might of been that comment about Allard and a cudgel...

[fitbabits]

Might of been that comment about Allard and a cudgel...
You and your mouth! :D

[ldi222]

1080i joust is no doubt compelling but I still do not see a killer app for the 360 yet at launch. The dealbreaker for me is if there are any enhancements in HALO2 in back compat mode.

[Pantsmonkey]

Sounds like Microsoft are basically letting homebrewish things out the gate at launch.

I remember how the Color GB had so many games because of the older GB library I hope they
never start attributing downloadble / launch mini arcade game rehashes in there "real" game
numbers. At the same time I love that they are trying to bust out as many games as possible.



PSP plays homebrew well it can... I think the focus of the next generation should be sqaure
on giving us content that knocks us on our collective arses. All these addins and collective
trailers that people have been shunning for years are starting to look prettier and make people
want them:(

Everyone plays solitare when they are stuck on a unfamiliar computer without web access never
any other time (save for mothers 30+) My X36 better be playing games from 2006 onwards when
it arrives march next year, not free from early releases that leave me with nothing but 05
alex kid in miracle world. I wonder if EB and the like will sell the budget systems to unknowing
parents with "Bundled GAMES" grrr

BTW, What does the controller feel like?

Does anyone remember the Mako Pad for N64? Heres hopin that was a gem amoung coal.

http://www.gamesmania.it/Prodotti/Nintendo64/makopad.jpg

:D

[Heretic Machine]

You and your mouth!

Then again, I'm getting a free 360, so that's a bit better than getting to test drive one :p

[fitbabits]

1080i joust is no doubt compelling but I still do not see a killer app for the 360 yet at launch. The dealbreaker for me is if there are any enhancements in HALO2 in back compat mode.
So you would rather play a tweaked version of a game that will be one year old than any of the new games announced for the 360? Sheesh.

[kokyunage]

1080i joust is no doubt compelling

Compelling? How about required! These are at most arcade games. If a next gen console can’t run a Tetris clone from the 1980’s in 1080i it shouldn’t be called next gen.

[fitbabits]

Then again, I'm getting a free 360, so that's a bit better than getting to test drive one :p
You filthy little minx! :eek:

[earthworm48]

No doubt Perigon's stance remains the same, even though he now has (or at least will be getting) a 360.

[Heretic Machine]

Hey, I have a new love for Mountain Dew, if that means anything to you.

[fitbabits]

Hey, I have a new love for Mountain Dew, if that means anything to you.
Not a damn thing, you jammy little shite! :rolleyes:

[bapenguin]

1080i joust is no doubt compelling but I still do not see a killer app for the 360 yet at launch. The dealbreaker for me is if there are any enhancements in HALO2 in back compat mode.

The game is Kameo. I will have the writeup on it soon. I was pleasently surprised.

And Microsoft isn't allowing homebrew, at least not yet. Don't get confused. An independant developer would still have to work with MS to get their product published via Arcade.

The example I was given as to why they won't give free reign is this. Say, 30 people decide to make a Texas Hold Em' title...you begin to crowd the Marketplace, and it becomes a burden to try to find the best one out there for the casual user (remember, that's the real target with Live Arcade).

While they may have a "indy only" area sometime in the future of "everything else" for now...everything will be certified by MS before it makes it's way onto Live Arcade. Right now they are working with places like Garage Games to help publish some of those titles.

[bapenguin]

Also, one thing I forgot to mention....80% of Live Arcade titles right now have Live Play.

Joust will have Co-Op over Live. :)

[BleedTheFreak]

I'm glad you got a chance to try it out and came away so pleased with the event. I pre-ordered a 360 a few months back, and I'm pretty excited about getting a new system in general, but it's nice to hear the money will be well spent.

I am eager to hear what games you came away the most impressed with, as other than Oblivion I am not sure what else to pick up with the systems launch.

On a related note, did you by chance get to play the 360 through a VGA cable on a monitor? I ordered a VGA cable for my 21" NEC and was hoping that was going to be money well spent.

[Raziel]

Also, one thing I forgot to mention....80% of Live Arcade titles right now have Live Play.

Joust will have Co-Op over Live. :)

Co-op Joust over Live that is awesome.

[fitbabits]

Co-op Joust over Live that is awesome.
Dude, don't kid yourself - it's so 80s. Mikro$oft are teh d00med. :D

[Rakael]

I just want Oblivion. THAT is the "killer app" that has me drooling over the 360. True, I could pass on the 360 and build a new computer capable of running Oblivion on max settings, but that would cost me at least twice as much as the 360. Besides, we are already hording money for an HDTV, so the 360 just seems to make more sense than a video card that is the same price.

[Heretic Machine]

But Oblivion on the 360 is only one quarter of the game you get on the PC... and that's being generous. Morrowind, for me, has lived on mods. I don't think I'd really have that much of an interest in Oblivion without mods...

[jwbxx]

bapenguin: Please tell me the 360 weighs as much as the original xbox. Because i need to know for self defense purposes.

[fitbabits]

bapenguin: Please tell me the 360 weighs as much as the original xbox. Because i need to know for self defense purposes.
And can it deflect a bullet (http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/Xbox_Deflects_Bullets!!!_4918_0_4.htm)?

[ArkMan]

And can it deflect a bullet (http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/Xbox_Deflects_Bullets!!!_4918_0_4.htm)?

Haha, that is rad. Now that I think about it, maybe that's the whole thing with the inhale design of the 360. Any dipshit that tries to shoot that thing is gonna have it ricochet back and hit them in the fucking face.

Ah Microsoft, how I love your evil ways.

[bapenguin]

bapenguin: Please tell me the 360 weighs as much as the original xbox. Because i need to know for self defense purposes.

I actually don't know...I didn't pick one up. But I'm going to say it's probably less. You are now more vulnerable.

[boston]

Geometry Wars was one of the best parts of Project Gotham Racing 2, so it's great to hear that I can pick this up and play it on a whim. Especially after paying $800 on eBay for a 360, there's very little money left for games. :D

[Heretic Machine]

Geometry Wars was one of the best parts of Project Gotham Racing 2, so it's great to hear that I can pick this up and play it on a whim. Especially after paying $800 on eBay for a 360, there's very little money left for games.

...You pre-ordered a 360 on eBay? Good luck with that.

[fitbabits]

...You pre-ordered a 360 on eBay? Good luck with that.
See, you could have gotten an easy $800 for yours, but you're keeping it. Come out the closet, Perigon - we all know that you have a hard-on for Microsoft. :)

[Heretic Machine]

I think I've made my feelings known for the original XBOX. I just hate how Microsoft has handled the 360 <.< It's not like I don't think the console will be fun.

[fitbabits]

I think I've made my feelings known for the original XBOX. I just hate how Microsoft has handled the 360 <.< It's not like I don't think the console will be fun.
I know, just pulling your leg.

[novicius]

But Oblivion on the 360 is only one quarter of the game you get on the PC... and that's being generous. Morrowind, for me, has lived on mods. I don't think I'd really have that much of an interest in Oblivion without mods... Oh, well if *you* don't like, then I'll be sure to cancel *my* preorder. :rolleyes:

Bang for the buck Oblivion on the 360 can't be beat by the PC version with *eventual* mods. As far as RPGs go, this is the killer app. Oblivion, Kameo, and PGR3 make for a nice spearhead of 1st gen titles for the 360. I'm adding DOA4 and Call of Duty 2 to that as well, but that's just me. Should be a nice Xmas.

[Heretic Machine]

So anyhow, I'm curious as to how good Kameo is... Because currently, it's the only launch title I'm interested in. I'm fairly sure Saint's Row won't hit shelves until September :(

Bang for the buck Oblivion on the 360 can't be beat by the PC version with *eventual* mods.

...Er, how is that again? They have the same content, except that the PC version will have MORE content in a few months made by players. Plus I think the PC version will be $10-$15 cheaper...

[Rakael]

Ya Perigon, I know man. I just simply cannot afford to build a rig that can play Oblivion to its fullest potential. Like I said, the vid card would most likely cost as much as the entire 360. You know full well I don't like how MS is handling the 360, as we have often ranted in the same forums. Still, I'll probably end up with one shortly after launch and be sunk neck-deep in Oblivion for months.

[thecrazyd]

Your XBox won't run the game to its full potential either. If you think you will be playing with totally maxed out settings on the box, then you are mistaken. My PC will eventually be able to run it maxed out, but not until a few upgrades. Besides, new content > slightly better looking temporarily. I don't understand people who think every PC game needs to be maxed out to be enjoyable.

[Rakael]

I don't have the upgrade option, as both of my home rigs fucking melted man. Every part is blown, nothing salvagable. I have to build a system from the ground up, which will easily cost two to three times the 360, which will be playing the game as close to max settings as any pc on the market today will, besides the $5k machines or something.

[bapenguin]

So anyhow, I'm curious as to how good Kameo is... Because currently, it's the only launch title I'm interested in. I'm fairly sure Saint's Row won't hit shelves until September :(


Glad you asked about Kameo. I just posted up my preview. (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6103) :)

[bapenguin]

Your XBox won't run the game to its full potential either. If you think you will be playing with totally maxed out settings on the box, then you are mistaken. My PC will eventually be able to run it maxed out, but not until a few upgrades. Besides, new content > slightly better looking temporarily. I don't understand people who think every PC game needs to be maxed out to be enjoyable.

Looked maxed out on the 360 to me.

[thecrazyd]

Looked maxed out on the 360 to me.
And I am sure you would know. Did you see the PC version with everything maxed out? No? So you have nothing to compare it to? Oh, alright.

[earthworm48]

http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/08/exclusive-interview-with-pete-hines-of.html

"That’s a tough question because “PC” can mean an almost infinite number of things. What video card? Sound card? How much RAM? Are the right drivers installed? The list goes on and on. All these things determine performance on a PC. The advantage of the Xbox 360 is that it’s designed to run our game, period. You know if you have a 360 it will look as good as it can possibly look. If you have the latest, greatest PC with the best video card, etc., it will probably look the same as the Xbox 360 version. Anything else will probably lag behind.

[Rakael]

And I am sure you would know. Did you see the PC version with everything maxed out? No? So you have nothing to compare it to? Oh, alright.

Sometimes you take things too far man. Just drop the hate for like five minutes.

[Heretic Machine]

If I have to run Oblivion at 1024x768 with 2x AA and 32-bit textures with shadows turned off... So be it, I'll still be playing a Moogle when Ian starts working on his mod again. It's worth it to me, maybe not to you guys.

Just to show you how much I care about mods, I originally owned Morrowind on the XBOX. I bought it on the PC later just for the mods. If Oblivion does turn out to have some monster system requirments and doesn't run on my system, then I can wait until I have the system to run it. Better to play it to it's fullest potential (and I don't mean graphics).

But whatever, do what you want. I'm just giving my view here.

[BleedTheFreak]

Looked maxed out on the 360 to me.

It is, according to the developers. I know you have to take what someone says at face value, including this very post, but I've read on the official forums countless times, as well as interviews, that Oblivion will look best CURRENTLY on a 360, unless you have the highest gen PC, and we are talking like the FX-57 and a 7800 ($600 bucks on it's own, like a grand for the chip). That's what they said.

PR Hype? Hard to say. I know my PC will sure as HELL not look like those videos I've seen, and those are pre-final dev kits!

[Kelegacy]

Well, no wonder they let you in. They knew you'd come back here to kiss their ass. Just kidding, dude. I'm just jealous. Haha!

They definitely picked the right guy for the job, that's for sure.

[bapenguin]

And I am sure you would know. Did you see the PC version with everything maxed out? No? So you have nothing to compare it to? Oh, alright.

We've all seen the PC version maxxed out in the screenshots.

[DeadPixel]

Hey will the current XBLlive headset+plug work with 360 or do we have to get a new one?

[Roc Ingersol]

everything will be certified by MS before it makes it's way onto Live Arcade. Right now they are working with places like Garage Games to help publish some of those titles.
That's Indy enough for my console tastes. I have no problem leaving PCs to do strict homebrew, and establishing a channel for quality to get ported to XBL.

Everyone and Anyone is overrated, particularly when you're trying to cultivate an indy sensibility on the console.

One question: Any word on adult human sized controllers, or adapters? Third party even? I find the original XBox controller just about perfect, and I'm not relishing the prospect of S-sized controllers.

[Heretic Machine]

Hey will the current XBLlive headset+plug work with 360 or do we have to get a new one?

Headset comes with the premium version.

[Tennistoad]

so close!!! gimmee gimee gimme

/hope the thing puts out alotta heat because I'm not going to be able to afford to heat my house after I buy this.

[Phades]

If you think you will be playing with totally maxed out settings on the box, then you are mistaken.
Looked maxed out on the 360 to me.
And I am sure you would know. Did you see the PC version with everything maxed out? No? So you have nothing to compare it to? Oh, alright.

So when you make assumptions/conclusions based on nothing it's better than the same assumptions/conclusions reached by someone who's actually seen the game combined with what the developers themselves have said? Oh, alright.

[Achilles]

And I am sure you would know. Did you see the PC version with everything maxed out? No? So you have nothing to compare it to? Oh, alright.Did you? You're saying that your computer is so super cool that it can run it with everything maxed out, but the 360 can't and isn't. Have you played either one or even seen the system requiremnts for it?

Ah, Phades and about 6 other people beat me to it.

[thecrazyd]

Did you? You're saying that your computer is so super cool that it can run it with everything maxed out, but the 360 can't and isn't. Have you played either one or even seen the system requiremnts for it?

Ah, Phades and about 6 other people beat me to it.
I never said my PC could, but if they do not include the option to raise it beyond what is possible on the 360, then it is bad design, pure and simple.

[Achilles]

I never said my PC could, but if they do not include the option to raise it beyond what is possible on the 360, then it is bad design, pure and simple.Consider that if the 360 can't run it maxed out than it's very possible there won't be a computer that will be able to within the next 2 years or more. I know you're a PC supremacist, but you have to assume that the developer knows what they're doing, and that there's no point in putting in all the work that it would take to make it look good on a system that won't exist in the near future.

Not wasting hundreds of man hours building the game for a system that may or may not exist would seem like good design to me. And certainly a good use of time.

[Heretic Machine]

Consider that if the 360 can't run it maxed out than it's very possible there won't be a computer that will be able to within the next 2 years or more.

Don't kid yourself. By this time next year the 360 will be underpowered.

Crazyd's point was that you don't have to max out every setting for a game to be fun on the PC. You get so much more from mods, that some graphical niceties are just inferior by comparison. But whatever, your choice. I'll be playing Oblivion four years from now with new content all the time. You'll be done with it in three months, tops.

[Achilles]

Don't kid yourself. By this time next year the 360 will be underpowered.It's possible they'll have released a comparable video card by then, but it won't have the advantage of the unified architecture. And do you think that 3 core processors will be common in PCs this time next year? Because I don't think there's an OS that will support them yet, and those things take a while to write.

[thecrazyd]

It's possible they'll have released a comparable video card by then, but it won't have the advantage of the unified architecture. And do you think that 3 core processors will be common in PCs this time next year? Because I don't think there's an OS that will support them yet, and those things take a while to write.
It doesn't need 3 cores to be more powerfull. And a comparable video card? Are you kidding? There will definately be a superior one by then. Perigon is being generous. I am saying 6 months, max.

[Achilles]

It doesn't need 3 cores to be more powerfull. And a comparable video card? Are you kidding? There will definately be a superior one by then. Perigon is being generous. I am saying 6 months, max.Nope, not kidding. The 360s video card won't be out for several more months and there is currently no comparable video card. If you don't think it needs 3 cores to be more powerful I'd like to hear how you think it'll manage it. At any rate in a year we'll find out, but I don't expect any computer to be more powerful than the 360, for quite some time when it comes to running games. PC architecture is not streamlined, and it's not as powerful. In the past it hasn't been streamlined but it's been far more powerful. That's the difference between this gen and the last 4.

[thecrazyd]

Remember when the PS2 was gonna push Toy-Storyesque graphics? Every gen every console maker (save Nintendo) lies about their power. Every gen, PC gaming will be killed by these crazy powerfull machines. And every gen, PCs surpass them. This is pre-launch hype. The power advantage will not last.

[bapenguin]

I never said my PC could, but if they do not include the option to raise it beyond what is possible on the 360, then it is bad design, pure and simple.

Let me put it this way. I thought the 360 Version of Call of Duty 2 looked better than the PC version. It wasn't drastic, but there were certain effects that just looked better than the demo did on my 6800GT.

I don't think you are going to see any difference between the 360 version of Oblivion and the PC version graphically.

It's a different headset connector as far as I can tell. It's a standard headphone jack with two plugs on either side at the base of the controller.

[Achilles]

Remember when the PS2 was gonna push Toy-Storyesque graphics? Every gen every console maker (save Nintendo) lies about their power.Well if you can't tell the difference between a company saying it's machine will run Toy Story, and seeing real specs and games being played on it than there's no convincing you. Also if you want to think that PCs are advancing now as fast as they were six years ago, that’s up to you. We still don’t have 4Ghz procs and it’s been 2 years. All the upgrades now are in the video card, RAM and other components, but that can only do so much when you’re plugging it into something with as many bottlenecks and hardware configurations as a PC has.

[thecrazyd]

Well if you can't tell the difference between a company saying it's machine will run Toy Story, and seeing real specs and games being played on it than there's no convincing you. Also if you want to think that PCs are advancing now as fast as they were six years ago, that’s up to you. We still don’t have 4Ghz procs and it’s been 2 years. All the upgrades now are in the video card, RAM and other components, but that can only do so much when you’re plugging it into something with as many bottlenecks and hardware configurations as a PC has.
Except the real games I have seen do not look that impressive. In fact, they look like current gen PC games, at best. At worst, they look like XBox games in a higher resolution. I have yet to see anything I have been amazed by, and I doubt I will.

[Heretic Machine]

Also if you want to think that PCs are advancing now as fast as they were six years ago

Well if you want to think that any game console uses magical silicon to somehow put it ahead of the technological curve, you must be kidding yourself.

[Hijinx]

I actually don't know...I didn't pick one up. But I'm going to say it's probably less. You are now more vulnerable.


Its quite abit lighter than the Xbox. The Hard drive is a simple push/pull disengage. I also really enjoyed the feel and weight of the 360 controller. It has the Headset connector Dreamcast style.

A couple of weeks ago I got to try out a few games on the 360. I played a good deal of Gun. I'm a sucker for the Hawk games, so I played Wasteland and really liked the BMX bikes. Its fully fleshed out. I got a few laps in the new Ridge Racer game on the 360. Drift = good. Watched some in-game view of the new cockpit mode in PGR3. Kameo is going to be the new Ratchet/Jak app for the 360.

All in all, I'm really looking forward to the 22nd and I just wish I could afford an HDTV :o

[baz]

Stoked, I'm seriously going to have to take a couple of days off work to binge on the 360. December the 2nd it hits in Britain I think.

[Zeal]

Except the real games I have seen do not look that impressive. In fact, they look like current gen PC games, at best. At worst, they look like XBox games in a higher resolution. I have yet to see anything I have been amazed by, and I doubt I will.

I agree. Graphically, the next-generation of consoles are hardly a jump.

[tai.mei.shu]

i think that the next gen games are going to rock, and i myself think that they are a jump, not a BIG jump, but a decent jump from what they are now.

[Kelegacy]

Kameo is going to be the new Ratchet/Jak app for the 360.


Yeah right. The good thing about the Ratchet games (and even Jak) is that nearly every year a new installment is released, and they are excellent sequels, not shit-thrown together to capitalize on the IP. Kameo may be good, but we'll be waiting every 7 or 8 years for the next installment. Rare is only slightly faster than the team making Duke Nukem Forever.

[Hijinx]

Yeah right. The good thing about the Ratchet games (and even Jak) is that nearly every year a new installment is released, and they are excellent sequels, not shit-thrown together to capitalize on the IP. Kameo may be good, but we'll be waiting every 7 or 8 years for the next installment. Rare is only slightly faster than the team making Duke Nukem Forever.

You misunderstood my comment. I was going for the overall appeal of that type of game to the platforming or Mom's money crowd.. You'll see when you play it.

[Heretic Machine]

Kelegacy, the good thing about the Ratchet and Clank games are that they are fun. Not that they get sequels. I -never- buy a game with the thought of, "Wow, awesome, this game is soo gonna have a sequel so I should buy it now!" Kameo will be fun, and it is in the same genre of Ratchet and Clank, which is why it was being compared.

As for Jak... Jak is teh suck. Slow platformers suck in general, I have no idea why that game has the following that it does. Maybe it's advertising...

[fitbabits]

As for Jak... Jak is teh suck. Slow platformers suck in general, I have no idea why that game has the following that it does. Maybe it's advertising...

Finally, someone else who dislikes J&D! I blame the little Daxter prick for the success of the franchise.