Pure Evil - Warhammer Online Idiocy

[Evil Avatar]

In the category "Developers are Stupid" I would like to congratulate Mythic for bungling the download of the Warhammer Online beta test. They have decided to use piracy friendly BitTorrent as their SOLE download source and the download speed sets a new record - it almost rivals what you can get from a 56k modem.

This is a title that just recently got a black eye when they decided to cut 2/3rds of the game content. Did you seriously think it needed another black eye by crippling the download speeds?

Right now, I'm double not impressed. This had better be one hell of a game.

[Sandman]

I can understand using torrents as an option but as the only source? FAIL.

[torrefaction]

Piracy friendly BitTorrent? Really Evil? Come on. That's like saying piracy friendly FTP, or piracy friendly WWW.

It's just a technology. Apparently they screwed up by not seeding with enough fast servers, but the use of this is neither a mistake NOR "piracy friendly" any anyway.

[Bone]

For the last time, BitTorrent is no more "piracy friendly" than guns are "murderer friendly". It's all in how someone responsibly (or otherwise) uses the technology.

By using BitTorrent you can increase your download speed and also distribute the network load across every consumer of the data. It's being used by companies like IBM and others. Continuing to call it piracy is just making you sound old, like people talking about the VCR as a piracy device.

[Serapth]

Although I dont agree with Evil, I will say probrably 90-95% of BitTorrent traffic is copywriten material.

Yes, yes, I know Linux distro's and a few other things are distributed via torrents, but the vast majority is pirating.

EDIT: For one too lazy to look it up, what's Evil talking about when he says cut 2/3rd of the content?

[mastergeo7]

Yup, BT is a good way to download all kind of legal stuff. It's just a way for the devs to save some $$$ in bandwitch, however they should have some high speed seeders and the leechers must share lots of upload.

[Heretic Machine]

This is a piracy friendly site, as theoretically, I could post an entire novel on here, and put Stephen King back in his place!

Aside from the piracy friendly thing, yeah, using bittorrent as the only official way to grab the client is lame. It is fucking lame. But WoW's official patcher is also a bittorrent client (one reason so many people have trouble with it), so it isn't like this is unprecedented. I'm betting we're going to see more torrenting for distribution of official patches in the near future, and things are going to get even more lame as ISPs continue to fight it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the next set of game consoles use bittorrent to distribute their digital distro games.

[Karmakin]

Blizzard for crying out loud uses BitTorrent technology for their updates.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you can download the entire client via BitTorrent all nice and legal as well.

[Serapth]

This is a piracy friendly site, as theoretically, I could post an entire novel on here, and put Stephen King back in his place!


I guess friendly isn't the word, oriented is probrably a better word. This site is not pirate oriented as posting pirate materials/links/etc... will get you banned. The primary use of this site is not to obtain pirated materials, although I am sure you can find tons of forums where that is the case.

[Karmakin]

Blizzard for crying out loud uses BitTorrent technology for their updates.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you can download the entire client via BitTorrent all nice and legal as well.

Actually I know for a fact you can download the entire client off their website. I have it burned onto a DVD, as it's much easier for a reinstall than the original disks.

[Dr.Finger]

Although I dont agree with Evil, I will say probrably 90-95% of BitTorrent traffic is copywriten material.

Yes, yes, I know Linux distro's and a few other things are distributed via torrents, but the vast majority is pirating.

EDIT: For one too lazy to look it up, what's Evil talking about when he says cut 2/3rd of the content?About a month ago they announced that 6 classes and all but 2 of the capitol cities aren't going to make launch.

[mkelehan]

The PSP plays the piracy friendly MP3 file format, and my computer contains a piracy friendly DVD-RW drive. My mom still uses her piracy friendly VCR, too.

[torrefaction]

Although I dont agree with Evil, I will say probrably 90-95% of BitTorrent traffic is copywriten material.

Yes, yes, I know Linux distro's and a few other things are distributed via torrents, but the vast majority is pirating.

EDIT: For one too lazy to look it up, what's Evil talking about when he says cut 2/3rd of the content?

I won't disagree, but that's the nature of an emerging technology. The hacking/cracking community is always at the very edge of tech, and you should know that.

What was 95% of pirated traffic 8 years ago? FTP? IRC DCC? How do people find their torrents. The Web. Bit torrent is no more piracy friendly than any other protocol. It just happens to be used right now because it's the easiest way to distribute load.

[Evil Avatar]

This is a piracy friendly site, as theoretically, I could post an entire novel on here, and put Stephen King back in his place!

Piracy friendly? Talking about torrents or software piracy here will get you banned. We have a zero tolerance policy for software piracy.

[Ten19]

EDIT: For one too lazy to look it up, what's Evil talking about when he says cut 2/3rd of the content?
They removed four classes and four of the planned capital cities. The classes were removed because the developers were not satisfied with them compared to the other 20 classes. The cities were removed due to time constraints and the developers have stated they will be back in in the future. It's hardly 2/3rds of the content, if anything it's a minor removal, all of the major content is still in place, and the two cities in place have been even further developed to help balance things out.

[Serapth]

I won't disagree, but that's the nature of an emerging technology. The hacking/cracking community is always at the very edge of tech, and you should know that.

What was 95% of pirated traffic 8 years ago? FTP? IRC DCC? How do people find their torrents. The Web. Bit torrent is no more piracy friendly than any other protocol. It just happens to be used right now because it's the easiest way to distribute load.

True pirates know that the channel for pirating hasn't changed in a decade. That said, the first rule of newsgroups is dont talk about newgroups.


I know what you are saying, and I agree with it. But I am not going to pretend that the vast majority of people with BitTorrent installed are doing it to pirate. Hell, "torrent" is another word for pirating these days.

Now, P2P transfers are on the rise as it can save a company a ton of money, while potentially offering better performance and definatly improving reliability. That said, offering Torrent as the only option is complete bullshit.

[Serapth]

They removed four classes and four of the planned capital cities. The classes were removed because the developers were not satisfied with them compared to the other 20 classes. The cities were removed due to time constraints and the developers have stated they will be back in in the future. It's hardly 2/3rds of the content, if anything it's a minor removal, all of the major content is still in place, and the two cities in place have been even further developed to help balance things out.

Ah, hyperbole. :) Thanks.

[Heretic Machine]

Piracy friendly? Talking about torrents or software piracy here will get you banned. We have a zero tolerance policy for software piracy.

Okay, I suppose you're right, that wasn't a fair comparison; the forum software that this site is built on is piracy friendly. Or at least as piracy friendly as bittorrent. Hell, most sites dealing with one-click hoster based piracy are based on similar (if not the same) forum software.

Bittorrent is a data distribution method. It isn't a source of piracy, or anything else.

[Phanto]

Probably they don't want to spend $$ on "dedicated servers" that people can download the "game client" or "install", faster.

They just want that people download the game at the expense of other people downloading it too.

[MelbaToast]

This is a title that just recently got a black eye when they decided to cut 2/3rds of the game content.




Sorry? How does cutting 4 of 23 classes and 4 capital cities equal "2/3rds" of the game content?

[Serapth]

About a month ago they announced that 6 classes and all but 2 of the capitol cities aren't going to make launch.

Sorry, didn't see you replied too. Thanks.

So long as that stuff doesnt end up in a $$$ expansion pack, I can live with it.

[Atorak]

Hey, if you're unsatisfied with your torrent download speeds, I would be happy to take those CE open beta codes off your hands!

Forgive me for not joining in the fray, but I cannot feel sorry for any of you. It's like the guy in the $160k Ferrari complaining that his cupholders are too small. You have five more days until the open beta starts.

Also, as someone else pointed out, torrents are being utilized by large companies all the time. Unfortunately, some ISP providers have limited or even tried to eliminate torrent traffic, despite the fact that some of it is for legitimate uses.

[Intruder]

I downloaded mine fine, left it run over night, the next day I had it. Not sure if your Torrent program isn't configured right or whatnot. Also this was the 1st wave of people to get the Beta this way, the 2nd, 3rd and etc should receive it much easier now.

[Evil Avatar]

Okay, I suppose you're right, that wasn't a fair comparison; the forum software that this site is built on is piracy friendly. Or at least as piracy friendly as bittorrent. Hell, most sites dealing with one-click hoster based piracy are based on similar (if not the same) forum software.

Bittorrent is a data distribution method. It isn't a source of piracy, or anything else.

We picked this forum software because it is what Valve uses for their official forums. I figured if it could hold up to the amount of traffic that Valve gets that it would work for us. We stress it out a little more because of our front page, but I hardly think that what forum software we picked places us in the same category as bittorrent sites.

[Ghostbear]

Yay, over reactions for the win.
As for the "2/3" content, I would like to echo Ten19. I think you'll find that the game will be very enjoyable and worth playing.

[Deunnero]

Sorry? How does cutting 4 of 23 classes and 4 capital cities equal "2/3rds" of the game content?

Cut the guy some slack. You would be a blabbering idiot too if you were up to your eyeballs in pirates. At least that's the impression I got from reading through this thread. :p

[Intruder]

Sorry? How does cutting 4 of 23 classes and 4 capital cities equal "2/3rds" of the game content?

It doesn't. All of the content that was in those cut cities are still in the game, the cuts were very minor in the overall content, Not sure why Evil is blowing things out of proportion. The 1st wave of downloads may have been a bit slow, but it worked perfectly fine for most.

[torrefaction]

We picked this forum software because it is what Valve uses for their official forums. I figured if it could hold up to the amount of traffic that Valve gets that it would work for us. We stress it out a little more because of our front page, but I hardly think that what forum software we picked places us in the same category as bittorrent sites.

Your missing the crux of his point. What he's saying is that it'd be just as easy for the technology that runs this site to be a piracy site as not. Technology has not inherent bias, only people.

It drives me insane when people try to label BitTorrent as a "pirates" protocol, because it's an awesome piece of technology that SHOULD be more widely adopted.

[Emabulator]

In the category "Developers are Stupid" I would like to congragulate Mythic for bungling the download of the Warhammer Online beta test. They have decided to use piracy friendly BitTorrent as their SOLE download source and the download speed sets a new record - it almost rivals what you can get from a 56k modem.

This is a title that just recently got a black eye when they decided to cut 2/3rds of the game content. Did you seriously think it needed another black eye by crippling the download speeds?

Right now, I'm double not impressed. This had better be one hell of a game.Hang on a bit and there will be a few hundred thousand gold farmers seeding it. :D

Reminds me of having to get a fileplant subscription to get the patches for WoW.

[Serapth]

It drives me insane when people try to label BitTorrent as a "pirates" protocol, because it's an awesome piece of technology that SHOULD be more widely adopted.

Firewall issues are a major hindrance. Having a format that requires your user to open a couple firewall ports in their router for ideal performance, is frankly beyond 80% of users.

[torrefaction]

Firewall issues are a major hindrance. Having a format that requires your user to open a couple firewall ports in their router for ideal performance, is frankly beyond 80% of users.

Well, more and more home based firewalls have those ports allowed by default...so there's that.

[Heretic Machine]

We picked this forum software because it is what Valve uses for their official forums. I figured if it could hold up to the amount of traffic that Valve gets that it would work for us.

And it's mighty fine forum software, for a fine site. However, it can be (and has been) used for plenty of piracy-oriented sites for one-click hosting based piracy, torrent based piracy, even DDL piracy (what little exists anymore).

We stress it out a little more because of our front page, but I hardly think that what forum software we picked places us in the same category as bittorrent sites.

Well, I wouldn't say we're in the same category as a bittorrent site, since we don't distribute anything. But bittorrent sites, just like forums, aren't all the same; some forums are based around piracy, some torrent sites are also based around piracy. But bittorrent, like forum software, can be used for many different things. It's like paper, you could use paper for nefarious means, but that doesn't mean that paper is an inherently nefarious material.

Well, more and more home based firewalls have those ports allowed by default...so there's that.

ISPs are also little bitches about torrenting.

[torrefaction]

ISPs are also little bitches about torrenting.

Not anymore. The courts slapped that shit down good.

[Asmodan]

I'm all for my gaming news with 'attitude', but come on man... As everyone is pointing out BitTorrent is no more 'piracy friendly' than FTP, IRC, UseNET, or any other way of moving data around.

Also, quality of the game aside the 2/3rd comment is just plain wrong. They cut 6 classes which leaves 20. They only thing they cut two thirds of were capitol cities, but have stated plans to reintroduce the others when they meet the quality level they are going for. The game may indeed suck, I have no idea. But they most certainly didn't remove over sixty percent of the content; something a thirty second Google search could have confirmed.

I'm really surprised, I'm not used to seeing this sort of quality of news posting here.

[Jackel]

Unless you have a command line torrent program, you might need a magic computer to run a torrent program.

In other words, you probably haven't configured your router / firewall to properly forward ports. Don't blame it on the developers.

[Ten19]

Just to clarify, only four classes were cut from the original planned 24. They were Knight of the Blazing Sun (Empire, Tank), Hammerer (Dwarves, Melee DPS), Black Guard (Dark Elves, Tank) and the Orc Choppa (Greenskins, Melee DPS).

[Bone]

Although I dont agree with Evil, I will say probrably 90-95% of BitTorrent traffic is copywriten material.

Yes, yes, I know Linux distro's and a few other things are distributed via torrents, but the vast majority is pirating.
I could extend your statistic to include 90-95% of Internet traffic as copywritten material, which should illustrate how ignorant this blanket statement becomes.

Not just Linux distros, but large legal downloads of all kinds are offering torrent or torrent equivalents as alternatives. Like I said, when companies like IBM, NBC, BBC, etc. are using some form of this technology, it's pretty clear that P2P is becoming mainstream and will be used more and more for legal purposes IF the negative misconceptions of some folks can be modified.

[Zacharai]

Sorry? How does cutting 4 of 23 classes and 4 capital cities equal "2/3rds" of the game content?
Give Evil a break, fractions are hard.

[Devilturnip]

Seeing as how they're moving the content that was in the four missing capital cities into the cities that are in place, it's not really that big a deal.

[Atorak]

Seeing as how they're moving the content that was in the four missing capital cities into the cities that are in place, it's not really that big a deal.
Yes, yes! We got it the first time!

/end sarcasm

[The Continental]

We picked this forum software because it is what Valve uses for their official forums. I figured if it could hold up to the amount of traffic that Valve gets that it would work for us. We stress it out a little more because of our front page, but I hardly think that what forum software we picked places us in the same category as BitTorrent sites.Funny you should mention the Valve comparison considering Steam, the preeminant digital distribution software for games, also uses the "pirate friendly" BitTorrent protocol. Hell they even hired Bram Cohen, the creator of the protocol to help develop the application (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bram_Cohen#BitTorrent).

Evil, I know your personal views on PC gaming are, well biased to the pont of absurdity, but this is just shameful ignorance. For someone whose site generates its advertising revenue from assorted games, peripherals, and game related services, you're shooting yourself in the foot by alienating an entire subset of your user base, and potential advertisers to boot. Not to mention it just comes off as childish at this point.

[Heretic Machine]

Seeing as how they're moving the content that was in the four missing capital cities into the cities that are in place, it's not really that big a deal.

Eh... if you took all of the "content" out of Ironforge, and moved it all to Stormwind, that would not be the same as having both Ironforge and Stormwind to visit in WoW. The cities themselves are content, they are pieces of the world that will no longer be present, and that is a big deal. That doesn't mean it's a deal breaker, but it's not a good thing, and it's not a non-issue.

[MelbaToast]

Eh... if you took all of the "content" out of Ironforge, and moved it all to Stormwind, that would not be the same as having both Ironforge and Stormwind to visit in WoW. The cities themselves are content, they are pieces of the world that will no longer be present, and that is a big deal. That doesn't mean it's a deal breaker, but it's not a good thing, and it's not a non-issue.

It also doesn't constitute "two thirds" of the game's content, even if you add in the four removed classes.

[Squidbot]

Wow, just....wow. I'm pretty shocked by the ignorance and bias here.

[Heretic Machine]

It also doesn't constitute "two thirds" of the game's content, even if you add in the four removed classes.

I think we've established that the original post has numerous factual errors ;) I'm just saying that two cities being pulled from the game isn't nothing, it's most certainly something. But that's okay, MMO's usually have bumpy roads to walk, and if they can pull together a launch that is fun and relatively stable, that's all that matters. Content is the easy part to put in later.

[Evil Avatar]

It also doesn't constitute "two thirds" of the game's content, even if you add in the four removed classes.

The removal of 4 cities out of 6 is 2/3rds. Fractions are hard.

[MelbaToast]

I think we've established that the original post has numerous factual errors ;) I'm just saying that two cities being pulled from the game isn't nothing, it's most certainly something. But that's okay, MMO's usually have bumpy roads to walk, and if they can pull together a launch that is fun and relatively stable, that's all that matters. Content is the easy part to put in later.

I agree it's definitely noteworthy, I'm just still getting a kick out of the "Let's ignore facts and rational thought here for a second..." argument.

[Maskatron]

Major movie studios (http://www.marketingvox.com/studios-partner-with-bittorrent-to-distribute-movies-025749/) have partnered with BitTorrent (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060509-6782.html), welcome to 2006.

[Devilturnip]

Eh... if you took all of the "content" out of Ironforge, and moved it all to Stormwind, that would not be the same as having both Ironforge and Stormwind to visit in WoW. The cities themselves are content, they are pieces of the world that will no longer be present, and that is a big deal. That doesn't mean it's a deal breaker, but it's not a good thing, and it's not a non-issue.

I agree that it's not a non-issue, but it's still a very small issue. The larger issue is how having three separate endgame RvR fronts would have split the population of the game, effectively compartmentalizing the population and lessening the impact of endgame content. I, for one, think it was a smart move to eliminate that issue altogether.

[Evil Avatar]

Wow, just....wow. I'm pretty shocked by the ignorance and bias here.

So am I. Then again, I'm always shocked when people try to justify their piracy by claiming that BitTorrent has legitimate uses.

Yes, around 1% of the BitTorrent traffic out there is legitimte traffic, but this was a P2P protocal designed by its owner for the specific purpose of sharing illegal music and to try to deny that its MAIN use is for the trading of copyrighted materials is just plain ignorant.

[MelbaToast]

The removal of 4 cities out of 6 is 2/3rds. Fractions are hard.

That would be correct if the cities constituted the only content in the entire game. But When you add in the 4 of 24 classes being cut, you get 6/30 pieces of "content" being cut, which is 1/5.

[GrinR]

blah blah torrent argument blah

anyways, as I posted on the other thread (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60244)about this:

torrent the "warpatch.exe" file and I think "mss32.dll" and put them in the folder you want to play from. Run it, "patch" your way to direct downloading the whole fucking thing.

I'm probably missing a file or two, but basically take the little files out of the torrent and stuff them into a folder and you'll get it going. it took me 6 hours to DL the whole thing direct... not that it matters since the servers aren't online.

[MosBen]

Yeah, I'm just taking Evil's hyperbole as the "with attitude" which gives the site it's particular flair. Sometimes things get a little crazy, but that's preferable to dry recitation of news. And clearly, much of the post was hyperbole fueled by anger at wanting to play a game and having to wait. I'm sure we've all felt it.

[cp#]

So does that mean you are offering to host the multi-GB client, Evil?

Oh, right.

[Heretic Machine]

The removal of 4 cities out of 6 is 2/3rds. Fractions are hard.

If cities were the only content in the game, yes, you'd be correct. Failing that, any other amount of content throws off that ratio significantly. Judging the game by my experience with other fantasy MMO's, I'd say that less than 1% of the game's total content was cut if we are only talking about the cut of the four cities; rough estimate obviously, since I haven't played it.

That would be correct if the cities constituted the only content in the entire game. But When you add in the 4 of 24 classes being cut, you get 6/30 pieces of "content" being cut, which is 1/5.

Hive mind...

[Evil Avatar]

So does that mean you are offering to host the multi-GB client, Evil?

Oh, right.

Since the only source for this file is BitTorrent -- I am hosting the file. :rolleyes:

[randir14]

I agree that using Bittorrent is lame, but apparently this is only for the closed beta. One of the developers said there will be "other methods" of downloading the client once open beta starts.

[Shadowstorm]

I agree that using Bittorrent is lame, but apparently this is only for the closed beta. One of the developers said there will be "other methods" of downloading the client once open beta starts.

How is using Bit Torrent lame? Using Bit Torrent as the only method of downloading this is lame, but not using Bit Torrent as a means of obtaining data.

Technology has not inherent bias, only people.

It drives me insane when people try to label BitTorrent as a "pirates" protocol, because it's an awesome piece of technology that SHOULD be more widely adopted.

QFE.

[Abash Alarmist]

So has the NDA been lifted?

[randir14]

How is using Bit Torrent lame? Using Bit Torrent as the only method of downloading this is lame, but not using Bit Torrent as a means of obtaining data.


That's what I meant. I use torrents all the time, but this method of downloading the client is just way too slow.

[Devilturnip]

So has the NDA been lifted?

No.

tooshort

[Cyrillus]

First off, was the "piracy-friendly" qualifier really necessary? As if that somehow makes it a bad choice for legal distribution of large files?

This is a title that just recently got a black eye when they decided to cut 2/3rds of the game content. Did you seriously think it needed another black eye by crippling the download speeds?

Second, I understand you're upset over not having this thing downloaded yet, but you're being blatantly disingenuous. Assuming that you've had an interest in this game, since you sprung for the CE (perhaps you were given a press code or something, I do not know). The news about the cutting of 4 of the 6 capital cities and 4 of 24 of the classes was weeks ago, and the linked article on this website stated very clearly how it was not a cut of 2/3 of the content.

Also, I'm pretty sure they didn't purposely "cripple" the download speeds. Being upset is just fine and dandy, hell what's the point of having your own website if you can't vent some steam on it? But burning the bridges of possible advertising revenue doesn't seem like a good idea.

[GrinR]

It seems folks want to argue about bittorrent more than actually get the client.

[torrefaction]

It seems folks want to argue about bittorrent more than actually get the client.

Look at how the thread was started. Where'd you suspect it'd go?

[Farsight]

Damn, that was a news post even FoxNews would balk at.

First, you're bitching about the slow download of software you can't even use yet, acting like it's some massive black eye that it'll be a while before you can store the software away for later.

Then, there's the inane BitTorrent/piracy rip, which I guess you should have been levelling squarely at Blizzard for years now... or is BitTorrent only piracy-friendly if it's slow? There's a ton of people trying to download and no one has data to share yet. Take your Ridalin and give it some time.

Lastly we get the get the capper of "2/3rds of the content cut)"... Are you really that ignorant? I'm assuming not, since people have explained how your math would get you held back in kindergarten, so the only explanation is that you knew your post was full of shit, and posted it anyway.

You're already on the internet, how hard is to do a little research before posting on the front page for literally dozens of people to read?!?

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

Waaagghhh1!!!\

Ive been in beta forever, dealing with their shitty ftp and torrents. Torrents are much better...

[Bone]

So am I. Then again, I'm always shocked when people try to justify their piracy by claiming that BitTorrent has legitimate uses.

Yes, around 1% of the BitTorrent traffic out there is legitimte traffic, but this was a P2P protocal designed by its owner for the specific purpose of sharing illegal music and to try to deny that its MAIN use is for the trading of copyrighted materials is just plain ignorant.
Do your homework on Bram Cohen- the designer of BitTorrent- who wanted a new way of moving large files over the Internet. He achieved it, and as others have said, was hired by Valve to achieve the same thing with a little product called Steam. His tests of the BT network involved using free porn (laugh, but it wasn't copyrighted material) to provide a proof of concept that many users would flock to.

Second, I think you're being pretty disingenuous if you really believe that anyone defending BitTorrent is secretly defending their piracy- that or you're just willfully ignorant. Many new technologies have been derided as piracy-friendly but today we have our VCRs, MP3 players, media players, iPhones, iPods, etc. I realize it's your opinion and website but you really alienate, well, everybody when you make ill informed statements like this.

You haven't responded to the likes of Valve, IBM, NBC, the BBC, and major movie studios' use of this technology. Are all of them also defending piracy- somehow I doubt it, since each of them has important IP to protect, yet they are distributing it using the best available technology for such large files.

[torrefaction]

I'm a little offended by the whole "justification of piracy" claim. I'm an engineer. I do this shit for a living. I recognize superior solutions. This is one.

[surj0]

Yeah, downloading an entire client several times in a few days span and then a huge patch, all over a slow as sin torrent is painful. There's no playtime when you're always downloading. *shrug* Their loss I suppose, can't test what you can't play.

Blizzard does the same crap, but at least with release software you have filefront and similar options

[torrefaction]

Yeah, downloading an entire client several times in a few days span and then a huge patch, all over a slow as sin torrent is painful. There's no playtime when you're always downloading. *shrug* Their loss I suppose, can't test what you can't play.

Blizzard does the same crap, but at least with release software you have filefront and similar options

Yeah...that 700Kbps download I had when installing/updating Blizzard was HORRIBLE.

[TrackZero]

Piracy friendly BitTorrent? Really Evil? Come on. That's like saying piracy friendly FTP, or piracy friendly WWW.

It's just a technology. Apparently they screwed up by not seeding with enough fast servers, but the use of this is neither a mistake NOR "piracy friendly" any anyway.

About sums it up. It's simply a protocol. Adding a "piracy friendly" tag just reminds me of FOX news reporting.

[Devilturnip]

Yeah, downloading an entire client several times in a few days span and then a huge patch, all over a slow as sin torrent is painful. There's no playtime when you're always downloading. *shrug* Their loss I suppose, can't test what you can't play.

Holy shit, how many times does this have to be said?

THE SERVERS ARE NOT YET OPEN. YOU ARE MISSING FUCK ALL WHILE YOU DOWNLOAD THE CLIENT.

Quit bitching about how you can't play because of the slow client download. Even those of us who have the client already cannot currently play.

[surj0]

Holy shit, how many times does this have to be said?

THE SERVERS ARE NOT YET OPEN. YOU ARE MISSING FUCK ALL WHILE YOU DOWNLOAD THE CLIENT.

Quit bitching about how you can't play because of the slow client download. Even those of us who have the client already cannot currently play.

You're silly. I've been in the beta for months I've had to re-download the client. This isn't a first time thing or something I've chosen, this is start it up and see 8gb go.

Also, chill out. Sheesh. Not everyone reads every post, they read the story and post their thoughts.

[Devilturnip]

You're silly. I've been in the beta for months I've had to re-download the client. This isn't a first time thing or something I've chosen, this is start it up and see 8gb go.

*shrug* I've been playing virtually every day for the last few weeks, and the last big update of that size I had was a week ago.

That still doesn't negate my point. Even if you didn't have to patch, you wouldn't be playing right now. The servers are not up for anyone.

[ElfShotTheFood]

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/8536/waahmbulance747602lp7.jpg

[Squidbot]

ElfShotTheFood
This user name wins HARD.

[Keldi]

Wow, just....wow. I'm pretty shocked by the ignorance and bias here.

I had hoped that ignoring the forums and the sidebar would let me get some gaming news sans propaganda and bile, but I guess that was a pipe dream.

[Vyzov]

EDIT: For one too lazy to look it up, what's Evil talking about when he says cut 2/3rd of the content?

They didn't cut 2/3rds of the content. Evil is talking out his ass. It's not even close. They cut 4 out of the 6 capital cities and 4 classes. There are still 20 other classes to choose from and the two remaining capital cities are way bigger then originally intended. I think each capital city is now 4 seperate zones instead of just one or two like they were originally.

[Intruder]

They didn't cut 2/3rds of the content. Evil is talking out his ass. It's not even close. They cut 4 out of the 6 capital cities and 4 classes. There are still 20 other classes to choose from and the two remaining capital cities are way bigger then originally intended. I think each capital city is now 4 seperate zones instead of just one or two like they were originally.

The real kicker of Evil's ignorance or blatant misleading, is that even though the cities are gone, the "Content" that was held within them was for the most part has been reworked or placed in the remaining cities. I have to be truly honest here, I was really taken aback by the OP, seemed very out of character and a disservice to the site.

[Jackel]

The real kicker of Evil's ignorance or blatant misleading, is that even though the cities are gone, the "Content" that was held within them was for the most part has been reworked or placed in the remaining cities. I have to be truly honest here, I was really taken aback by the OP, seemed very out of character and a disservice to the site.

Out of character? Read Evil's post history...he's had his PC hate for a while now.

He knowingly pulls stats out of his ass to further his anti-PC rhetoric. Then when good people prove him wrong they get banned

[Intruder]

Out of character? Read Evil's post history...he's had his PC hate for a while now.

He knowingly pulls stats out of his ass to further his anti-PC rhetoric. Then when good people prove him wrong they get banned

Yea i see what you are saying, I think I maybe was meaning I expect better journalism out of EA (the site) and this felt more like yellow journalism. Just kinda sad to see a site you love and respect kinda let you down..you know.

[Lord_Don]

You pirates and your terrorist-fist-clients!

[mightbe]

Piracy friendly BitTorrent? Really Evil? Come on. That's like saying piracy friendly FTP, or piracy friendly WWW.

It's just a technology. Apparently they screwed up by not seeding with enough fast servers, but the use of this is neither a mistake NOR "piracy friendly" any anyway.

I have piracy friendly post-it notes.

[mightbe]

For the last time, BitTorrent is no more "piracy friendly" than guns are "murderer friendly". It's all in how someone responsibly (or otherwise) uses the technology.

By using BitTorrent you can increase your download speed and also distribute the network load across every consumer of the data. It's being used by companies like IBM and others. Continuing to call it piracy is just making you sound old, like people talking about the VCR as a piracy device.

http://www.singularcards.com/evav/vcrpirate.jpg

[mightbe]

Right now, I'm double not impressed. This had better be one hell of a game.

If it's not your cup of tea, just PM me the account name and password. I'll put it to good use.

[Darcydian]

Got into the closed beta huh?
Bitching about free milk because it's not chocolate?

[f1sh3r]

Blizzard for crying out loud uses BitTorrent technology for their updates.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you can download the entire client via BitTorrent all nice and legal as well.

blizzard's BT downloader sucks balls on a good day. not a good example.

I'm a little offended by the whole "justification of piracy" claim. I'm an engineer. I do this shit for a living. I recognize superior solutions. This is one.

it might be superior, but you can't argue it's mainly used for pirating software/music/movies/whatever. it's nice to see it being used for good, hopefully they do a better job than blizzard did.

[mister_slim]

YsgOfn5gVB4
Hey, look, it's the trailer for Clear Skies. Which uses copyrighted music clips that haven't been licensed. Technically the Eve and Half-Life 2 models are copyrighted as well, but I think that's condoned by the companies holding those rights. Personally I'm glad EvAv is facilitating copyright violations by allowing the embedding of videos.

Anyway, Clear Skies is pretty cool. I'd like to link to the torrent the producer of the film put up, but apparently that would get me banned.

PS: Don't click on my sig, that video uses copyrighted images without permission.

[Vyzov]

\They have decided to use piracy friendly BitTorrent

Well shit Evil, I hear that you need a computer and an internet connection to play the game. Did you know those can be used to pirate things as well? I guess we should be upset about that. Look! I can come of as an ignorant troll to!

ZOMG Mythic supports piracy! Wait, pirates used to rape and pillage and murder. I guess mythic needs another black eye for supporting raping and murder to!

[resikel]

I just want to say that I'm doing my part -- current upload: 3.16GB (.443 share ratio)

I'm at 76.3%.

[vallor]

Good or bad uses aside, I personally dislike the idea of using Bittorrent as a patching downloading mechanic for a retail game that I am already paying a monthly fee for. I hope they host their own patch servers for retail and leave torrenting alone. Anyone remember the pain of the first two years of WoW and their crappy, crappy, crappy Bliztorrent system?

This is yet another tactic that the companies have found to pass costs onto the user and, in the case of WoW (one of the only other retail MMO using torrents) they also passed a lot of pain onto the users of any skill level below "expert" (and still are, yet we let them get away with it...)

Bliz's option for direct download is so anemic that the user was forced to use Blizzards crappy torrent system and GIVE blizzard their bandwidth or pay an additional monthly fee to a 3rd party (fileplanet).

I am a fairly computer savvy person (I can assemble a machine, used to do high end tech support for software) who's skills atrophied before the rise of the internet much less BT. I still work in software development but I'll be damned if I can get my firewall configured to get maximum download rates on WoW patches.

If a person has a house that actually generates a surplus of electricity that the electric company can then use the EC has to pay that person money. If these companies want to use my bandwidth I expect a differential applied to my bill. Either that or give me adequate performance on a server hosted by the company or make the extra effort to make the torrenting process as easy as it would be to download from a company hosted server.

Bliz torrent was the absolute worst and often led ignorant people to make their computers vunerable to attack while messing with their firewall or to people downloading the patch from whereever they could often getting a virus.

Some may say that those users were stupid and *everyone* should know better, but is it really the user who just wants to play their game at fault or is it the company that strongly encouraged such extreme measures because their download/patch system was arcane and unconventional to the point of being unusable?

[Zacharai]

The removal of 4 cities out of 6 is 2/3rds. Fractions are hard.
Wow. Now here I am, thinking fractions are hard, and my calculator says you're right...
This is a title that just recently got a black eye when they decided to cut 2/3rds of the game content.
Oof, yes, they removed 4 capital cities... wait, are there other cities? Is there more content, like races and classes and dungeons and villages and wilderness? Did they really cut out 2/3rds of all content? Umm, wait... oh, so confusing!

Now, I fully support your style of disinformation — it's a little Fox News-ish, what with deliberately ignoring any contrary evidence, but go for it!

[total]

what you said

I'm not directing this at you in any way vallor just sort of a general response to almost everyone's opinion. I have had maybe 2 issues with the torrent updater. Even the larger updates (2.4 for example) worked flawlessly for me. Now granted they weren't my normal Comcast speeds (before or after the upgrades Comcast did to their network) but they weren't/aren't bad by any means. Typically between 200-300k once I get enough seeders. Of course I've always had the proper ports open so that makes a world of difference. I have always heard the horror stories from guildies and what not about the blorrent updater, so I've never doubted the issues exist. Typically when I would ask if they had the correct ports open in their firewall and they would have no idea what I was talking about.

And to mirror everyone here: OmGz torrent = pirates yarrr on the front page? Really?

[vallor]

I'm not directing this at you in any way vallor just sort of a general response to almost everyone's opinion. I have had maybe 2 issues with the torrent updater. Even the larger updates (2.4 for example) worked flawlessly for me. Now granted they weren't my normal Comcast speeds (before or after the upgrades Comcast did to their network) but they weren't/aren't bad by any means. Typically between 200-300k once I get enough seeders. Of course I've always had the proper ports open so that makes a world of difference. I have always heard the horror stories from guildies and what not about the blorrent updater, so I've never doubted the issues exist. Typically when I would ask if they had the correct ports open in their firewall and they would have no idea what I was talking about.

And to mirror everyone here: OmGz torrent = pirates yarrr on the front page? Really?

That is really the problem. Requiring people without good networking know-how to open ports and manipulate their firewall is a really dumb way to manage a patching/download server for a mass-audience game.

At best someone fumbles around and manages to finally get things configured correctly and gets the patch (until next time they have to reset their router and all those settings are lost, at which point they have to do it again).

At worst people fumble trying over and over to figure out what they are doing and inadvertantly end up removing all security from their firewall without realizing it.

Then some guy with a wireless sniffer drives down their road, sees the unprotected network, and downloads 500gb of child porn. The next day our subject is arrested during take your daughter to work day because the authorities tracked his IP during their kiddie porn sting. They seize his house and his computer, ruin his professional and personal life, break up his marriage with his wife getting a judgement against him so he can never see his kids again. He goes through years of court trials, learns intimately who the tossed salad man is, and finally, after 5 years the authorties can't find any proof so release him with a quiet "Sorry for your troubles".

All because a company wanted to save a couple bucks on bandwidth even though they are clearing half a billion in profit a year (according to last years financials).

Of course the truth lies halfway between those for most people. We deal with the slow download speeds while trying to figure out what the hell this "port" thingie is. We sit their wondering if opening these port provides a possible attack vector for some malicious use. See we don't actually understand what a port is or how it can be used. We don't know how opening a hole in our firewall could possibly be safe since the software makers and media tell us that our firewall is the only thing standing between us and a billion "hackers" that want to send us a virus to delete our HDD for no other purpose than it amuses them to do so.

[torrefaction]

You guys don't realize that this isn't all about saving money on bandwidth for them, do you? In all likelihood, they still use significant amounts of bandwidth. I'm sure they have root seeders that pull a lot of the load.

A majority of the time, the torrents will be faster. My one big issue with the blizzard method is that they don't let you restrict upload...and they chew up whatevers there.

[Evil Avatar]

Now, I fully support your style of disinformation — it's a little Fox News-ish, what with deliberately ignoring any contrary evidence, but go for it!

Fox News is the #1 news channel. :D

[Akela]

This thread is...Both painful and grotesque....

[Spooky]

BACK ON TOPIC

A couple of people have commented that the game servers are not currently up. When are they going to be?

Evil, have you been able to successfully download it yet?

I've been using the torrent for over six hours, barely 1% in.

[Evil Avatar]

BACK ON TOPIC

A couple of people have commented that the game servers are not currently up. When are they going to be?

Evil, have you been able to successfully download it yet?

I've been using the torrent for over six hours, barely 1% in.

I'm getting a slightly better speed than I was in the beginning, but it is still so slow that it has taken well over 24 hours to get to 90%.

It will be finished before morning, but other people have noticed that the game servers are not online yet.

[Spooky]

Is there an expected time in which the servers will go online?

[f1sh3r]

I'm getting a slightly better speed than I was in the beginning, but it is still so slow that it has taken well over 24 hours to get to 90%.

It will be finished before morning, but other people have noticed that the game servers are not online yet.

how big of a download?

[Spooky]

Nearly 10Gigs. I'm not sure I can say the exact amount while under the NDA. My speeds have varied significantly, ranging from 20kB to currently over a 100kB.

[f1sh3r]

Nearly 10Gigs. I'm not sure I can say the exact amount while under the NDA. My speeds have varied significantly, ranging from 20kB to currently over a 100kB.

i was looking for an estimate just to see how slow it really was. thanks!

[Akela]

I think people are spoiled. The 9.93Gig file better download within a day, otherwise....Man! This is not acceptable! Servers are not up?..I don't care! Faster. Faster, I say! WTF Am I paying you guys for?......Oh wait...

My ISP is shaky. I am creeping along anywhere between 50 and 120KBps, depending on time of day and willingness of seeders (Utorrent configured, port forwarded, etc). I am, however, downloading it wirelessly while I am at work or sleeping. 83.7% this morning. DL speed only causes this kind of frustration when one stares at the status bar repeating "Hurry up, hurry up, hurry up.....I can't take it anymore!" under their breath.

Walk away people. Leave it the hell alone and walk away. Servers are not even up yet!