Warner Music: Games Must Pay More For Our Music

[Dr.Finger]

Warner Music honcho Edgar Bronfman thinks game publishers aren't paying enough to license his company's music for games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band. So he's going to put the license fees more in line with what he thinks they're worth. The amount being paid to the music industry, even though their games are entirely dependent on the content we own and control, is far too smallBronfman goes one to compare this new wave of music games to the debuts of MTV and iTunes. Not coincidentially Warner Music is also trying to raise the rates they charge those outlets for use of their songs.

Source - Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINWEN736120080807?rpc=44).

Thanks to Keelu for the tip.

Brilliant idea, Bronfman! Take the one successful new avenue for music sales and cut it off at the feet. Artists are climbing over one another to get their songs into these modern rhythm games (ask Dragonforce how much it can help a career), and you want to kill that. Is it any wonder the record industry is dying a slow, agonizing death.

[Dr.Finger]

I normally don't like to editorialize that much in a newspost, but this one got me a bit riled up.

[BalekFekete]

It'll take one or two releases to the Marketplace with an inflated price, and the overwhelming denial of purchasing by the end users to get this dick to pull his head out of his ass.

[Rone]

And just in time, both Guitar Hero and Rock Band are including a song creation mode, where the music industry gets no payment at all. I normally don't like to editorialize that much in a newspost, but this one got me a bit riled up. No need to apologize; It's "Daily Gaming News...with Attitude". We expect it. :)

[Ancalagon]

Agreed, Dr. Finger.

"Hey our industry is lower. How about we raise prices to increase barriers to entry and drive more people away from us into piracy?"

Why not build popularity and a customer base and provide support and even funds to create more music based games? I mean, ffs, its a revenue source. Get these kids addicted to whatever crap you want to sell them now and they will be hooked for life.

Maybe I should thank him for this - he'll end up limiting his industries power over the youth.

[Dr.Finger]

All this is going to do is force EA and Actiblizzard to stop including Warner Music artists in their games. They may not like the money they're getting per song, but it's still better than the nothing they'd get if that happens.

[Sandman]

I hate the music industry sometimes.

[Talon-]

All this is going to do is force EA and Actiblizzard to stop including Warner Music artists in their games. They may not like the money they're getting per song, but it's still better than the nothing they'd get if that happens.

If that happens, then MTV Games and Activision Blizzard will just wait until Warner blinks; however, it's also possible that the major labors as a whole share this attitude. UMG owns the biggest chunk of artists right now (I believe), and Zucker has been as outspoken as anyone about the music industry needing to rely on higher royalties.

Of course, this probably won't matter for Activision Blizzard because Vivendi Universal maintains control of the company, and VU also happens to own Universal Music Group. :)

[roboninja]

I hate the music industry sometimes.

Sometimes? Let the hate flow.

[jeffbax]

All this is going to do is force EA and Actiblizzard to stop including Warner Music artists in their games. They may not like the money they're getting per song, but it's still better than the nothing they'd get if that happens.

I hope this is what happens... rather than the game companies having to bend over.

Songs are already $2 a pop, which is $1 too much IMO.

[Roc Ingersol]

The sad part is - if Warner jacked up rates, and $2 tracks became $2.50 tracks -- I don't think sales would notably change.

If there were alternatives, say you propped up a $2.50 Warner track next to a $2 track from someone else on the same week, maybe Warner would take a relative hit.

But if the price of a particular DLC pack was just $1.50 higher on 'Warner week', I doubt it'd matter in the long run. Gamers have been utterly impotent when it comes to channeling our collective rage over pricing this gen.

[Dr.Finger]

The sad part is - if Warner jacked up rates, and $2 tracks became $2.50 tracks -- I don't think sales would notably change.

If there were alternatives, say you propped up a $2.50 Warner track next to a $2 track from someone else on the same week, maybe Warner would take a relative hit.

But if the price of a particular DLC pack was just $1.50 higher on 'Warner week', I doubt it'd matter in the long run. Gamers have been utterly impotent when it comes to channeling our collective rage over pricing this gen.It wouldn't be a $.50 hike. Judging by Bronfman's posturing over iTunes, the prices would double at a minimum.

[RMan]

Don't mean to derail a hate train, but does anyone know the amounts we're talking about here? Doesn't seem that the music guys want to raise what consumers pay, they're saying publishers aren't paying them enough of a cut, which may or may not be true.

[Talanvor]

I would like more independent bands and labels to get their music into RB/GH. Maybe this will help steer the gaming companies towards them.

[ldi222]

I completely agree with the hate going on here. 2 Dollars a track isnt enough? The one thing these fucktards have going for them now and they want to jack it up out of greed? I love the part where the games are "completely dependent on their content." What about the part where the games are RESELLING THEIR CONTENT FOR THE 3rd or 4th TIME at twice the price of a regular download.

[NationalKato]

Dr. Finger, your editorializing is spot on. At every turn, it seems the music industry is making all the wrong decisions. Eventually, they'll learn. Until then, they'll blame it on piracy.

[roboninja]

I completely agree with the hate going on here. 2 Dollars a track isnt enough? The one thing these fucktards have going for them now and they want to jack it up out of greed? I love the part where the games are "completely dependent on their content." What about the part where the games are RESELLING THEIR CONTENT FOR THE 3rd or 4th TIME at twice the price of a regular download.

If I could double-bold something, I would have done it here.

[Earth Djinn]

Its digital distribution; virtually pure profit, and still he wants more?

Shit like this and they wonder why piracy runs rampant.

[Roc Ingersol]

It wouldn't be a $.50 hike. Judging by Bronfman's posturing over iTunes, the prices would double at a minimum.$4 a track might actually harm sales. But the more I think of it, the more I think that even $3 wouldn't slow things down much. I'd be awfully surprised if it managed to halve sales.

CEOs are like lawyers: they're rarely stupid, though they won't hesitate to say stupid, extreme things to try and make what they really want seem more reasonable. To hazard a guess at CEO logic -- they're probably still just trying to establish variable pricing, so they can charge more for, say, AC/DC than The Breeders.

[Fonz]

The music industry is never going to die. That's like saying the movie industry is going to die. Granted we might see it become more of a smaller more diverse industry with more independent labels and the BIG 5 label companies not monopolizing everything out there. It would be great, but its not going to happen any time soon, artists still want to sign a big contract and get guaranteed money instead of just relying on the fans for their support. Look at Radiohead; I think they learned their lesson by announcing no more free online albums.

[Mantooth]

This guy is an idiot and his type of thinking has helped put the recording industry in the position that it is now in. Guitar Hero and Rockband have increased the sales of a lot of songs. I have purchased several songs on iTunes or on other services after hearing the song in the games. He should be using these games to help promote new bands and give new life to older acts.

Rman: An increase in the cost to the game maker will almost surely get passed on to the consumer.

[toadkick]

what a greedy fuck

[RUSKULL]

They're still grasping to the time when they made gazillions selling hard copies of their music, a format that just doesn't work anymore.

Hopefully EA and Activision have the balls to put their feet down like Apple did with i-Tunes and say, "We call the shots. Be a part of it, or GTFO."

[Karmakin]

They need to be backing up a truck of money to Harmonix and Neversoft's back door to increase their output IMO. That's what they need to do.

[jeffbax]

Only the music industry would complain when someone other than their braindead selves creates a new means of revenue and totally fuck it all up... just like they did with digital music when Napster hit.

Why are they so fucking retarded?

[DaXIthR]

I have met a few Bronfmans. They are all assholes.

[Rakael]

Oh music industry, just burn to the ground already!

[Squidbot]

Sometimes? Let the hate flow.

Beat me to it.

[ElfShotTheFood]

I hope you guys like cover songs, because if the publishers balk at the increase in royalty fees and refuse to pay them, that's what you're going to get. ;)

[menage]

This just proves that commercial music is full of arrogant pissheads. I'm sure his Ferrari broke down. And people wonder why there's piracy.

[Evil Avatar]

Only the music industry would complain when someone other than their braindead selves creates a new means of revenue and totally fuck it all up... just like they did with digital music when Napster hit.

Why are they so fucking retarded?

Greed. From their point of view music is a product that they own -- it isn't something that they license from the creator and sell it is something that they OWN and they want to make sure that you don't own and you are just licensing from them and have to pay for again and again.

Hollywood has the same idea with movies, but it hasn't worked for them (anyone remember DivX?). I think Hollywood is just waiting it out until we all start to want all our movies on 'in demand' services like the 360 and PS3 marketplaces so they can get rid of the physical media and then just re-rent you the movie over and over (something that will never happen, the bulk of people will always want the physical media).

This guy just sees services like iTunes selling a billion+ songs and the millions of downloads for GHIII and Rock Band and is asking himself how he can get a bigger chunk of that money.

I don't buy many GHIII or Rock Band songs now, imagine how many fewer I would buy if they jacked up the price.

[laggerific]

I normally don't like to editorialize that much in a newspost, but this one got me a bit riled up.

But that's why we come here for news!

[Evil Avatar]

I hope you guys like cover songs, because if the publishers balk at the increase in royalty fees and refuse to pay them, that's what you're going to get. ;)

Oddly, I think that most of the time the cover songs work better in the game than the original tracks. That wouldn't bother me at all.

[saneman]

They're still grasping to the time when they made gazillions selling hard copies of their music, a format that just doesn't work anymore.

Hopefully EA and Activision have the balls to put their feet down like Apple did with i-Tunes and say, "We call the shots. Be a part of it, or GTFO."

Then they can wait until Amazon introduces their own music ... game. And offer favourable rates to Amazon's music ... game, keeping the restrictive rates for A...ctivision and EA.

*ahem*

Bronfman is a frustrating douchebag. Here he is back in 2005:

“We are selling our songs through iPod, but we don’t have a share of iPod’s revenue,” he said. “We want to share in those revenue streams. We have to get out of the mindset that our content has promotional value only.

ie. he wanted a direct share of iPod profits. He's the kind of delusional crazy that will just push for all the nonsensical crap he can get. So yeah, hopefully the publishers do push back.

[LongStepMantis]

These assholes just never know when to quit, do they?

Guess they signed on for the RIAA's elite training program. (NSFW & old, but classic)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0eNa85qDZs

[LongStepMantis]

Nevermind, I borked the link to the video and can't edit. Link for your pleasure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0eNa85qDZs). Still NSFW.

[mister_slim]

I've never understood why Edgar Bronfman, someone who writes songs himself, is so hostile to the interests of the artists.

[ElectricMonk]

Well I would say that the games ARE dependent on music to be good, they aren't entirely dependent (the software and game design have value too). If they charge $1 per song like itunes then it won't be possible to ship a game with more than 20 tracks.

[jeffbax]

Haha, I remember that.

[TrackZero]

Gamers have been utterly impotent when it comes to channeling our collective rage over pricing this gen.

Hey, I don't own a PS3 (due to price) nor did I buy the Horse Armor Pack. ;)

[Sammael]

I completely agree with the hate going on here. 2 Dollars a track isnt enough? The one thing these fucktards have going for them now and they want to jack it up out of greed? I love the part where the games are "completely dependent on their content." What about the part where the games are RESELLING THEIR CONTENT FOR THE 3rd or 4th TIME at twice the price of a regular download.

what a fuckin cunt this guy is... you're right, id. not only are we all buying these songs, our friends are too. BECAUSE WE CAN'T SHARE THEM!!!
just keep your mouth shut and be happy, Warner...


oh, and that American Werewolf in London clip is awesome.

[Serapth]

Hmmmmm, I always sort of figured RB/GH got the tracks for basically free. I mean, what better advertising can you get? Hell, I've gone out and purchase some music because of Rockband.

Nothing from GH3 though, as the music choices were shit.

[Flatpicker]

And just in time, both Guitar Hero and Rock Band are including a song creation mode, where the music industry gets no payment at all.

You have to be careful with that concept from a legal standpoint also.
Remember that the RIAA cracked down on Olga and the PowerTab archives because people were using the tools to recreate a song.

[LongStepMantis]

You have to be careful with that concept from a legal standpoint also.
Remember that the RIAA cracked down on Olga and the PowerTab archives because people were using the tools to recreate a song.

Yet more proof to pile on the "They're worthless, moneygrubbing assholes"
mountain. Punish people for learning to play an instrument well enough to recreate a song.

Fuck them. They act like they invented music.

[CapnBob]

Wait... they think we should pay MORE for a version of the song that the customer can only hear in its entirety if we press the correct sequence of buttons at just the right time? Blech.

Also would any of the increased pricing actually go to the artists who created the music? No? Fuck you. Fucking leeches.

[Shadowstorm]

I hate the music industry sometimes.

Why sometimes?

[Purple Santa]

This from the man who destroyed (depends on your view of their remaining family assets) his families legacy...Seagram...

[Azrikam]

Guys, don't be so cynical. Warner wants extra money so they can pass it along to the hard-working artists, who deserve their cut of the profits.

Ps. Music industry. Please die. Signed, me.

[bapenguin]

Honestly, this kind of thing should be a mutual relationship. It shouldn't cost either party money because it's beneficial to both.

[RMan]

Honestly, this kind of thing should be a mutual relationship. It shouldn't cost either party money because it's beneficial to both.
I seriously doubt anyone's running out to buy Aerosmith's 30 year old work because they were introduced to it on GH, it's clear who is the bigger winner here.

And I'm surprised (well, not terribly) how many people are complaining about the cost of downloaded tracks in relation to this. I have a shocking bit of news for you, the game publisher's setting those prices, so quit circling your wagons around the guys who are simply closer to the industry you love. If you want to call someone greedy, perhaps it should be the ones setting the prices. If he's asking for an unreasonable cut, then someone post figures, because I see a bunch of silly snap judgments.

[Serapth]

I seriously doubt anyone's running out to buy Aerosmith's 30 year old work because they were introduced to it on GH, it's clear who is the bigger winner here.

I wouldn't say that!


A look at Nielsen SoundScan data for a dozen Guitar Hero II songs found that 11 out of 12 had increased sales in 2007, including:

• Cheap Trick's Surrender nearly tripled from 58,000 digital sales in 2006 to 161,000 in 2007.

• Kiss' Strutter went from 11,000 to 63,000 sold.

• The Pretenders' Tattooed Love Boys rose from 5,000 to 16,000.

• Only Danzig's Mother showed a drop, from 28,000 to 16,000.



Source. (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2008-02-14-guitar-hero-effect_N.htm)

[Flatpicker]

I wouldn't say that!

Someone actually listens to Kiss?
Poor people.:(

[Sl1pstream]

Don't mean to derail a hate train, but does anyone know the amounts we're talking about here? Doesn't seem that the music guys want to raise what consumers pay, they're saying publishers aren't paying them enough of a cut, which may or may not be true.

Because most of the money goes to the bands, right?

On a more positive note, this probably means that less people will pick up Kid Rock's "music".

[f1sh3r]

Only the music industry would complain when someone other than their braindead selves creates a new means of revenue and totally fuck it all up... just like they did with digital music when Napster hit.

Why are they so fucking retarded?

until the old guard is replaced expect to see this as the norm. the napster thing was a little different, it was offering free music and this could have hit their revenue stream directly. in this case, they are making money, but apparently not enough. it's more like itunes, where they like to posture and huff and puff about prices, but in the end, the fact that music is selling in some capacity makes them hush up eventually.

Don't mean to derail a hate train, but does anyone know the amounts we're talking about here? Doesn't seem that the music guys want to raise what consumers pay, they're saying publishers aren't paying them enough of a cut, which may or may not be true.

here's a quick lesson on the way of the world. shit rolls downhill. the music guy wants more money. for him to get that money, it has to come from somewhere. it ISN'T going to come from the game company, because they have to get theirs. so where does it come from? the same as any other business, the consumer. hell, i'm paying more for a pizza because of gas prices. a company's costs go up, so does their end price.

On a more positive note, this probably means that less people will pick up Kid Rock's "music".

why hate on torrefaction. he needs to get paid too!

[Emabulator]

Someone actually listens to Kiss?
Poor people.:(I was a huge fan of Kiss! I had everything Kiss! Of course that was in the 70s, when I was in grade school. It was much "cooler" than my brother's Bay City Rollers collection. :D

[Karmakin]

Actually I've picked or am planning to pick up up whole discographies based on hearing something in Guitar Hero/Rock Band

Here's the problem:I got them used. The only actual music stores left in my area, other than box stores. There's a reason why the music industry promotes the latest and the greatest at the expense of everything else.

[f1sh3r]

Actually I've picked or am planning to pick up up whole discographies based on hearing something in Guitar Hero/Rock Band

Here's the problem:I got them used. The only actual music stores left in my area, other than box stores. There's a reason why the music industry promotes the latest and the greatest at the expense of everything else.

people don't listen to the radio anymore, because all it pushes is the same garbage over and over, which is hand picked by the record companies.

this provides a great way for people to hear good music they could get excited about, and invest in. of course, you're dealing with dinosaurs who don't understand why their stranglehold over the airwaves isn't working anymore.

[Emabulator]

people don't listen to the radio anymore, because all it pushes is the same garbage over and over, which is hand picked by the record companies.

this provides a great way for people to hear good music they could get excited about, and invest in. of course, you're dealing with dinosaurs who don't understand why their stranglehold over the airwaves isn't working anymore.You make a good point, but it's not something new. The radio payola playlist problem goes back to at least the 50s. People that are hardcore music fans have not listened to the radio for a very long time.

[Flatpicker]

I seriously doubt anyone's running out to buy Aerosmith's 30 year old work because they were introduced to it on GH, it's clear who is the bigger winner here.

And I'm surprised (well, not terribly) how many people are complaining about the cost of downloaded tracks in relation to this. I have a shocking bit of news for you, the game publisher's setting those prices, so quit circling your wagons around the guys who are simply closer to the industry you love. If you want to call someone greedy, perhaps it should be the ones setting the prices. If he's asking for an unreasonable cut, then someone post figures, because I see a bunch of silly snap judgments.

The publisher sets the prices based on their costs + some profit.
If the licensing fees go up, the prices have to scale to compensate.

I don't think anybody would have been making "silly snap judgments" as you called them, if the record industry had not been so intent on making enemies of new technology and the artists that they ride to make their coin.
This could have slipped under the radar had the industry not been so duchetastic in the last 10 years.

[f1sh3r]

You make a good point, but it's not something new. The radio payola playlist problem goes back to at least the 50s. People that are hardcore music fans have not listened to the radio for a very long time.

eh, i wouldn't agree with that. the radio has gotten really bad in the last 10 years or so, but before the last 5 you were still able to find a decent station. the biggest problem is there are no indie radio stations anymore, everyone has been bought out by 1 or 2 big corps, and after that everything is just cookie cuttered into "generic genre station".

[Serapth]

eh, i wouldn't agree with that. the radio has gotten really bad in the last 10 years or so, but before the last 5 you were still able to find a decent station. the biggest problem is there are no indie radio stations anymore, everyone has been bought out by 1 or 2 big corps, and after that everything is just cookie cuttered into "generic genre station".

Radio license fee's are more to blame. My understanding is, in my area anyways, just getting started is over a million bucks and thats just licensing. The home for Indys is and always has been the College and University stations... Thing is, they are almost always run by annoying twats, so I would rather listen to most mainstream garbage that annoying twat garbage.

[Flatpicker]

Radio license fee's are more to blame. My understanding is, in my area anyways, just getting started is over a million bucks and thats just licensing. The home for Indys is and always has been the College and University stations... Thing is, they are almost always run by annoying twats, so I would rather listen to most mainstream garbage that annoying twat garbage.

Barriers to entry in radio are pretty high.
College radio used to be fun, but I haven't listened in years.

[jeffbax]

until the old guard is replaced expect to see this as the norm. the napster thing was a little different, it was offering free music and this could have hit their revenue stream directly. in this case, they are making money, but apparently not enough. it's more like itunes, where they like to posture and huff and puff about prices, but in the end, the fact that music is selling in some capacity makes them hush up eventually.

I was more talking about how they were completely retarded in

1) Dealing with napster
2) Launching compelling digital music services
3) DRM

Than that Napster itself was some kind of profit service for them.

[Flatpicker]

I was more talking about how they were completely retarded in

1) Dealing with napster
2) Launching compelling digital music services
3) DRM

Than that Napster itself was some kind of profit service for them.
Actually, they dealt with Napster the only way they could.
What Napster did was promote theft. It was legally wrong and should have been fully prosecuted under U.S. Law.

The rest I will agree with you on.

[dr_wily]

hey before everyone gets their panties in a bunch (too late), does anybody know how much the music company makes off of the songs?

i mean what if its 10 cents out of the 2$ harmonix shills out to you? Would you be so bitchy then? Maybe its the developer/publisher that reaps all the benefit?

I mean i hate the music industry execs as much as the next guy.. but lets the some facts first (i know.. a first on EvAv)

[AlwaysOn222]

OMG! A company boss want's to earn more money, how shocking!!

Seriously why is this even news to people? Imo it is his god damn duty to the company to try and make as big a profit as possible. Otherwise he is not doing his job. If this means getting higher royalties from licensed songs so be it.

And if you guys don't like this, guess what? Vote with your money, because that is the only thing theese guys listens to. Whinig on forums on the Internet does nothing...

[CapnBob]

Vote with your money, because that is the only thing theese guys listens to.

Actually, I'm pretty sure they've already established that voting with your money will be interpreted as "revenue lost to piracy" for the foreseeable future.

[f1sh3r]

Radio license fee's are more to blame. My understanding is, in my area anyways, just getting started is over a million bucks and thats just licensing. The home for Indys is and always has been the College and University stations... Thing is, they are almost always run by annoying twats, so I would rather listen to most mainstream garbage that annoying twat garbage.

there have been some good stations here, owned by smaller companies, but they all get bought out and either douched out or the format changes to top 40 crap.

[f1sh3r]

I was more talking about how they were completely retarded in

1) Dealing with napster
2) Launching compelling digital music services
3) DRM

Than that Napster itself was some kind of profit service for them.

yes, and once again. the old guard. they have their beliefs, and no one is going to change their minds. they are rooted in having complete control over the distribution of music, and hard product such as compact discs. until they are rooted out and replaced by a younger generation who understands how the music industry has changed, expect to see more of the same.

[Sl1pstream]

i mean what if its 10 cents out of the 2$ harmonix shills out to you? Would you be so bitchy then? Maybe its the developer/publisher that reaps all the benefit?

I'm pretty sure that they're in control of that price already. It's not as if EA puts a gun to their heads when they're negotiating that price. We're still talking about the music industry, there's no way that they're going to have a percentage that's that low.

[Farsight]

I've bought almost every RB song that sold for $1... I've bought very few RB songs that sold for $2. It's the music publisher's right to set any licensing fee they want, and it's first EA/Activision's, then our right to refuse to pay it.

[mister_slim]

I just remembered Warner has licensed tracks to Rock Band without telling the artists. It's sad how completely the music industry has lost their way.

[RMan]

Because most of the money goes to the bands, right?
Hey, I'm sure it doesn't, but it's likely a lot more than what proportionately goes to the GH devs (as well it should).
I wouldn't say that!
Hehe, well, the first part of my statement there was poorly stated, but the second is definitely true, the music industry had already made successful products, and GH/RB completely rely on that success and benefit from the crème of the crop. Having to pay a premium for that is perfectly reasonable to me, of course, but who knows if they are already.
The publisher sets the prices based on their costs + some profit.
This is not true, prices of a licensing based product are based entirely on what your customer is willing to pay, and how many are willing to pay it. Production costs and licensing fees scale according to that, not the other way around. This is how it works with intellectual property, all this guy seems to be saying is their input into that process should grant them a bigger cut. Don’t for a second think price is some simple cost of goods equation.
I don't think anybody would have been making "silly snap judgments" as you called them, if the record industry had not been so intent on making enemies of new technology and the artists that they ride to make their coin.
I’m sure you’re right, but they’re still silly snap judgments. The thing that makes it silly, IMO, is complaining that they want to raise prices that they don’t set, and asking for a higher (yet still unknown) cut makes them greedier than the price setters. I’d wager their current cut is less than what the publisher or MS/Sony get, so considering these things they’d be 3rd on my list for who to vilify regarding pricing. No matter what, though, I’m not blaming DC Comics for the price of my ticket to see The Dark Knight, no matter how much they may think they’re underpaid.

[Emabulator]

eh, i wouldn't agree with that. the radio has gotten really bad in the last 10 years or so, but before the last 5 you were still able to find a decent station. the biggest problem is there are no indie radio stations anymore, everyone has been bought out by 1 or 2 big corps, and after that everything is just cookie cuttered into "generic genre station".It depends greatly on where you live. A while back I lived in Portland (OR) and there was one station I liked. The same with Virginia Beach. I remember when the first gulf war started, after the emergency broadcast message, the station played stuff like Seek & Destroy and Aces High - was a moment that stuck in my brain anyway. In the NY area, where I grew up and live now, it has always been a crapfest.

[f1sh3r]

It depends greatly on where you live. A while back I lived in Portland (OR) and there was one station I liked. The same with Virginia Beach. I remember when the first gulf war started, after the emergency broadcast message, the station played stuff like Seek & Destroy and Aces High - was a moment that stuck in my brain anyway. In the NY area, where I grew up and live now, it has always been a crapfest.

here in atlanta most of the good stations are gone, but every once in awhile one will pop up, then get bought out or get popular so they try and change what was working so well, and then it sucks ass. the last good radio station we had was 99x, til they messed around with it, made it suck, then used that as an excuse to torpedo it and move a top 40 station over to it's frequency because the morning show is popular and they wanted it on the stronger signal. go figure.

of course, even 99x wasn't GREAT, but at one point they had shows on the weekends that offered more than the cookie cutter hot single of the week from emo band xyz.

[mister_slim]

Yeah, here in Portland I can basically have 1 good station by switching back and forth between the alternative station and the hard rock station.

[f1sh3r]

Yeah, here in Portland I can basically have 1 good station by switching back and forth between the alternative station and the hard rock station.

our hard rock and alternative stations play pretty much the same music these days.

[Jotoco]

“We are selling our songs through iPod, but we don’t have a share of iPod’s revenue,” he said. “We want to share in those revenue streams. We have to get out of the mindset that our content has promotional value only.


ie. he wanted a direct share of iPod profits. He's the kind of delusional crazy that will just push for all the nonsensical crap he can get. So yeah, hopefully the publishers do push back.


Oh, PCs play music too, I want a share of their profit! And Sound Systems! And TVs! And Cell phones too!

[Talon-]

Yeah, here in Portland I can basically have 1 good station by switching back and forth between the alternative station and the hard rock station.

That has more to do with media consolidation due to weakened FCC regulations in terms of radio over the last decade.

[Jotoco]

OMG! A company boss want's to earn more money, how shocking!!

Seriously why is this even news to people? Imo it is his god damn duty to the company to try and make as big a profit as possible. Otherwise he is not doing his job. If this means getting higher royalties from licensed songs so be it.

And if you guys don't like this, guess what? Vote with your money, because that is the only thing theese guys listens to. Whinig on forums on the Internet does nothing...

Yep, only when raising the price also lowers your profit. MANY times a raise in price results in a LOWER profit, not higher, because of bulk sales...

[mister_slim]

That has more to do with media consolidation due to weakened FCC regulations in terms of radio over the last decade.

And? Do you have a point you're trying to make?

[Talon-]

And? Do you have a point you're trying to make?

Well that was unnecessarily hostile.

Loosened restrictions allowed various media conglomerates to squash diversity in a variety of markets. Case in point: two LA stations started carrying mics with each stations logo after a buyout. This sort of came to a head within the last 3 years in major markets with Clear Channel and the like starting to clean house. Hell, when they're utilizing remote DJs to cut costs, how diverse do you think the playlists are going to be?

[mister_slim]

Well that was unnecessarily hostile.

Loosened restrictions allowed various media conglomerates to squash diversity in a variety of markets. Case in point: two LA stations started carrying mics with each stations logo after a buyout. This sort of came to a head within the last 3 years in major markets with Clear Channel and the like starting to clean house. Hell, when they're utilizing remote DJs to cut costs, how diverse do you think the playlists are going to be?

I'm still not seeing your point here. I don't need you to tell me the history of radio consolidation, which I was already quite familiar with and had decided was not germane to my post about the quality of the radio stations local to me. If you think the cause of radio mediocrity is important to the discussion, perhaps you should explain that in your post, rather than phrasing it as a correction. For example, you could have included some mention of whatever it is you are claiming has less to do with local radio than consolidation, and why this matters to the discussion, because my post didn't point blame at anything. As it stands your post is a non sequitur.

[Talon-]

I'm still not seeing your point here. I don't need you to tell me the history of radio consolidation, which I was already quite familiar with and had decided was not germane to my post about the quality of the radio stations local to me. If you think the cause of radio mediocrity is important to the discussion, perhaps you should explain that in your post, rather than phrasing it as a correction. For example, you could have included some mention of whatever it is you are claiming has less to do with local radio than consolidation, and why this matters to the discussion, because my post didn't point blame at anything. As it stands your post is a non sequitur.

You obviously saw the part about radio mediocrity on the end of page 2, and I'd say my post is pretty germane to that topic. I just happened to quote your post because it came at the end of that discussion.

Gee whiz, slim, no need to get riled up. ;)

[Talon-]

Oh and I don't doubt that there are people that are well aware of media consolidation. I just take every chance I get to mention it because it's been very under reported by major news outlets. In fact, the Chicago Tribune (whose parent company was very involved in this practice in the midwest) didn't write a single story on the subject until the middle of last year.

[mister_slim]

You obviously saw the part about radio mediocrity on the end of page 2, and I'd say my post is pretty germane to that topic. I just happened to quote your post because it came at the end of that discussion.

Yes, and the information in your post was already implied in the discussion. If you present information as a counterpoint, you need to make sure it's actually relevant to the discussion and is actually aimed the claim you're trying to counter. If you want to continue a thread discussion, the accepted practice is to simply post with enough context to make your message clear. Quotation carries with it the implication that the text following has particular relevance to the quote, rather than none at all. Hence me breaking your post into individual quotes to separate different topics.


Gee whiz, slim, no need to get riled up. ;)
This is just me being slightly prickly. I'll note that you were the one who interpreted my request for clarification as hostility. I still don't know what you were referring to by "That".

[Wedge]

I normally don't like to editorialize that much in a newspost, but this one got me a bit riled up.

I think you nailed it.

[Talon-]

Yes, and the information in your post was already implied in the discussion. If you present information as a counterpoint, you need to make sure it's actually relevant to the discussion and is actually aimed the claim you're trying to counter. If you want to continue a thread discussion, the accepted practice is to simply post with enough context to make your message clear. Quotation carries with it the implication that the text following has particular relevance to the quote, rather than none at all. Hence me breaking your post into individual quotes to separate different topics.


This is just me being slightly prickly. I'll note that you were the one who interpreted my request for clarification as hostility. I still don't know what you were referring to by "That".

*sigh* There was a point made in the sense that most people don't realize the depths of the issue. I made that repeat post for a reason, good sir. ;)

[Mantooth]

Michael Pachter (http://www.edge-online.com/features/guitar-hero-cheating-music-labels) agrees with me.

[Grumsh]

I would like more independent bands and labels to get their music into RB/GH. Maybe this will help steer the gaming companies towards them.

Please, no! I am sick of all these half assed covers and inclusion of bands I don't know in these games. My copy of Rock band has been shelved for months because I personally feel that Harmonix wouldn't know good music if it bit them in the posterior. Its ROCK BAND, not PUNK BAND or I WANNA BE GREAT BUT I AM NOT BAND or PAY FULL PRICE FOR LOUSY COVERS BAND.

Rock, ya know, Guns and Roses, Deftones, Korn, Godsmack, EVERYTHING that came out of the 80's. Not to mention where are the female artists? Lita Ford? Heart? AAaargh its ok ill calm down I just need to take my meds ;P , I swear if Rock Band came out with 10 songs and a coupon to download 60 songs of your choice,,,,I still would not have a full song list.

[dr_wily]

Yeah, here in Portland I can basically have 1 good station by switching back and forth between the alternative station and the hard rock station.

you still listen to radio in portland?
man i cant stand it.. i turn it on after leaving it off for 6 months and its the same bad songs.

[aries100]

Henry Ford once sold the Ford T model for half of its production costs. He made a ton of money. If you cut the price in half more people will buy your car. Or your music. Maybe even 2-3 times as many, or 5 times as many.

This post is in agreement with Dr. Finger's opinions on this...

[Sl1pstream]

My copy of Rock band has been shelved for months because I personally feel that Harmonix wouldn't know good music if it bit them in the posterior. Its ROCK BAND, not PUNK BAND or I WANNA BE GREAT BUT I AM NOT BAND or PAY FULL PRICE FOR LOUSY COVERS BAND.

So you want more Avril Lavigne, is that it? What the hell is wrong with indie music? Most of those bands aren't even that obscure. Besides, with everyone at Harmonix playing music in one way or another, I don't think they'll make a game without those bands, which is great imo.

[Grumsh]

So you want more Avril Lavigne, is that it? What the hell is wrong with indie music? Most of those bands aren't even that obscure. Besides, with everyone at Harmonix playing music in one way or another, I don't think they'll make a game without those bands, which is great imo.

That was the sound of a blood vessel bursting. If they add Avril whatever her name is ill email them a virus that spams elvis costella and back street boys over and over again. There are good female artists, Kitty, Otep, Lita Ford. Heck even Heart for there time was pretty good, Then there are some 1 hit wonders like Vixen. I could name more good artists.

My problems with Rock Band are as follows.
1: Rock band is a game for "party play" news flash Harmonix ladies come to parties and do not want to sing a bunch of songs with Male lead singers, and get bored with Flyleaf over and over and over again.

2: Rock band is played by men with wives, see #1 additionally when I invite friends over I don't look over at my wife and say "Hey hon, the boys are here be good wench and serve us up some beers while we play the guy game". Needless to say if I did I would wake up one morning asking people to now call me "Alice"... Also since I enjoy including my wife in games when I invite friends over, we end up NOT playing Rock Band.

3: When I play Rock Band I want to play songs from well known famous artists, especially if the songs cost the same as uncle bubbas harmonica and bloodhound sing the blues.

4: Covers are el sucky. In my mind I hear the song (and the other 100 voices !!! ok bad joke). It just ruins it for me if what my ears hear doesn't match what my minds theatre hears.

5: Guitar Hero appears to have figured #3 and #4 out, so I am actually looking forward to World Tour. Plus, look a drum set that looks more realistic, hoooray !

[Sl1pstream]

a virus that spams elvis costella and back street boys over and over again.

That's where I stopped reading. You do not put Elvis Costello and the fucking bsb in the same sentence.

[Amzin]

Rock, ya know, Korn, SEVERAL SINGLES that came out of the 80's.

I saw some typos, fixed 'em for ya!

Seriously though, music is entirely too subjective. Your definition of rock is clearly different from mine, as the edited quote above shows. I sort of agree with you on covers, though: I like covers from a musical stand point (I like hearing new versions or interpretations of my favorite songs), but for something like RB/GH, covers are out of place (although there are plenty of 'Paint it Black' covers I would play over the real one, as much as I like it.)

[dr_wily]

That was the sound of a blood vessel bursting. If they add Avril whatever her name is ill email them a virus that spams elvis costella and back street boys over and over again. There are good female artists, Kitty, Otep, Lita Ford. Heck even Heart for there time was pretty good, Then there are some 1 hit wonders like Vixen. I could name more good artists.

My problems with Rock Band are as follows.
1: Rock band is a game for "party play" news flash Harmonix ladies come to parties and do not want to sing a bunch of songs with Male lead singers, and get bored with Flyleaf over and over and over again.

2: Rock band is played by men with wives, see #1 additionally when I invite friends over I don't look over at my wife and say "Hey hon, the boys are here be good wench and serve us up some beers while we play the guy game". Needless to say if I did I would wake up one morning asking people to now call me "Alice"... Also since I enjoy including my wife in games when I invite friends over, we end up NOT playing Rock Band.

3: When I play Rock Band I want to play songs from well known famous artists, especially if the songs cost the same as uncle bubbas harmonica and bloodhound sing the blues.

4: Covers are el sucky. In my mind I hear the song (and the other 100 voices !!! ok bad joke). It just ruins it for me if what my ears hear doesn't match what my minds theatre hears.

5: Guitar Hero appears to have figured #3 and #4 out, so I am actually looking forward to World Tour. Plus, look a drum set that looks more realistic, hoooray !

agreed on #1. need more vox for the grrls. a little souxsie, heart, benatar, blondie, veruca, peaches (hah!), and evanescence wouldnt hurt anybody.