View Full Version : J Allard Comments on Revolution Controller
Harlan Hoyt
10-07-2005, 10:59 AM
On Gameindustry.biz (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12101), Allard has some harsh words for Nintendo's new controller concept -- while claiming he came up with the idea himself:
"Four years ago I wrote an email treaty and said, 'Why aren't accelerometers in remote controls? Why can't I scroll down my channel guide with a gesture instead of up, up, up, up?"" Allard revealed. "We did a lot of research with gamers, talked to a lot of game developers and said, 'Should we put an accelerometer in there and do the tilt thing?' And there wasn't that much enthusiasm around it."
He also praised the controller for it's innovation and potential.
He also conceded that Nintendo could make good use of the controller in first party games, and that it could prove a hit with gamers as a result. He went on to praise Nintendo for its innovation, suggesting that Microsoft might also consider producing a simplified controller in the future.
Editors Note: I changed this up a bit. There's no need to start a flame war. He had criticisms and praises, something everybody had for the controller. Allard is from a competing company, it shouldn't be any surprise he doesn't have ANY criticisms of it.
Rakael
10-07-2005, 11:05 AM
Oh what the fuck ever, hes like a wounded animal trapped in a corner now. Keep digging that hole pal, you'll never be able to climb out eventually.
CrysDark
10-07-2005, 11:10 AM
He's a Pirate, of-course he would steel the idea, Hello!? Pirate!!
Abednigo
10-07-2005, 11:10 AM
Was this the same guy that was praising the Revolution controller a few weeks ago? Regardless, with people from MS both praising and bashing it, how is that going to look to consumers? What a moron.
Abednigo
10-07-2005, 11:10 AM
He's a Pirate, of-course he would steel the idea, Hello! Pirate!!
Talk like a pirate day was a few weeks ago. He's late.
Just like Nintendo asked if enough people were interested in online gaming, and look where that got them. Sometimes it's better to innovate than sit around doing nothing because focus groups don't support your ideas. Allard knows it; this comment is pure sour grapes.
TheKeck
10-07-2005, 11:12 AM
Was this the same guy that was praising the Revolution controller a few weeks ago? Regardless, with people from MS both praising and bashing it, how is that going to look to consumers? What a moron.
I don't think so. The article said it was some other guy... Peter Moore maybe?? I'm just showing my ignorance here.
Rakael
10-07-2005, 11:13 AM
MS needs to fire this fucktard and get someone with a brain (and fashion sense) in there to head the XBox development and marketing division. Allard is going to piss a lot of people off before this is all over with, and in turn could in some way hurt the 360. I'm not saying that he could single-handedly bring down the 360, but if MS is smart, they will do something about him, and soon.
Ludoc
10-07-2005, 11:13 AM
I don't even know where to begin...
How about this: Shut your fucking mouth, J Allard! You're making me want the 360 less.
MS should lock him in in a closet until their console lauches. At this rate Sony won't have to take any of the wind out of the 360's sails prior to Christmas, J will do it all for them.
On the bright side, I think we've finally reached the point where his ravings could not possibly become more inane.
bapenguin
10-07-2005, 11:14 AM
What the hell. This was posted already. Just pointing to other aspects of the interview. He also gives it praise...saying it admires what Nintendo is doing.
He also conceded that Nintendo could make good use of the controller in first party games, and that it could prove a hit with gamers as a result. He went on to praise Nintendo for its innovation, suggesting that Microsoft might also consider producing a simplified controller in the future.
Rakael
10-07-2005, 11:15 AM
How about this: Shut your fucking mouth, J Allard! You're making me want the 360 less.
My point made seconds after the post. I love EvAv.
S1n1star
10-07-2005, 11:15 AM
"We did a lot of research with gamers, talked to a lot of game developers and said, 'Should we put an accelerometer in there and do the tilt thing?' And there wasn't that much enthusiasm around it."
Was that the same brain trust that was supposed to be totally stoked with the original "John Wayne" Xbox controller? Yeah, thats what I thought.
ackbrack
10-07-2005, 11:18 AM
From the same article:
But that doesn't mean Allard is sold on Nintendo's version - "I don't know if I like the implementation because it ain't my remote."
"How am I going to watch a movie on Revolution? Am I going to have a different remote than that or am I going to have to use the four colored buttons?"
Did I miss something along the way, or is he criticizing the controller for not being able to do something it wasn't really designed to do? Why would it matter if you could or couldn't watch DVDs using this controller? Sure, I understand that Nintendo plans on offering a DVD player as an add-on to the Revolution, but it doesn't seem like Nintendo cares too much about having the Revolution be a media center in the same way the 360 or PS3 are touted to be.
Nighthold
10-07-2005, 11:18 AM
"I don't think most Electronic Arts games are going to be played with that thing, I think they're going to be designed for the classic controller,"
I think he just sold me on the rev.
Abednigo
10-07-2005, 11:21 AM
it doesn't seem like Nintendo cares too much about having the Revolution be a media center in the same way the 360 or PS3 are touted to be.
Bingo. As has been said quite often, Nintendo isn't trying to compete with MS or Sony. Those two want to have all in one media centers. Games, movies, music, internet, blah blah blah. Nintendo wants to make a game machine. There really is no comparison.
omnithrope
10-07-2005, 11:23 AM
Every time he opens his mouth, something stupid comes out.
MS should put a muzzle on this idiot.
Rakael
10-07-2005, 11:24 AM
"I don't think most Electronic Arts games are going to be played with that thing, I think they're going to be designed for the classic controller,"
I think he just sold me on the rev.
You made me choke on my lunch laughing, ass. :D
CrysDark
10-07-2005, 11:26 AM
Bingo. As has been said quite often, Nintendo isn't trying to compete with MS or Sony. Those two want to have all in one media centers. Games, movies, music, internet, blah blah blah. Nintendo wants to make a game machine. There really is no comparison.
Funny when you think about this, as Sony and MS have been dead set on making all in one consumer entertianment and selling thier product at a loss, Nintendo sits back still makes a profit on thier console, still releases games that are entertaining, and seem like they don't even care about being number 1. Didn't they even just say that they want to rev to be a companion to the big 2? Oh well just musing, didn't mean to hijack the thread.
Nighthold
10-07-2005, 11:26 AM
You made me choke on my lunch laughing, ass. :D
Well my day is complete.
:cool:
Heretic Machine
10-07-2005, 11:32 AM
What the fuck is Ken saying now...? Oh wait, this isn't Ken, nevermind. I guess Microsoft has their own now.
Phades
10-07-2005, 11:36 AM
Wow, you guys are just full of vitriol aren't you? We're talking about video games here, entertainment.
He's with a competing company. Of course he can't be 100% positive and talk about what a great idea it is. That'd be akin to saying "Wow, their controller idea is so much better than ours!! Everyone should buy the revolution!" Yeah, that's great business. Of course, that'd probably make all of you happy and instead of the hatred you'd start spouting "Wow, J Allard is swell! He really knows what he's talking about. Go Nintendo!"
Rakael
10-07-2005, 11:38 AM
Its not that he has criticisms of the controller that I'm pissed off about. Its his gradeschool-like reaction of "that was my idea first!" that pisses me off so bad.
omnithrope
10-07-2005, 11:40 AM
Its not that he has criticisms of the controller that I'm pissed off about. Its his gradeschool-like reaction of "that was my idea first!" that pisses me off so bad.
*touches the end of his nose*
Yep.
But! This is entertainment! We shouldn't take a multi-billion dollar industry seriously... it's just games n' stuff.
*rolls eyes*
Abednigo
10-07-2005, 11:43 AM
Funny when you think about this, as Sony and MS have been dead set on making all in one consumer entertianment and selling thier product at a loss, Nintendo sits back still makes a profit on thier console, still releases games that are entertaining, and seem like they don't even care about being number 1. Didn't they even just say that they want to rev to be a companion to the big 2? Oh well just musing, didn't mean to hijack the thread.
Yup, they said something about not caring if they bought a PS3 or XBOX 360, but they wanted to make a system that every consumer would say, "and a Revolution too please." Their goal is that every PS2 and 360 owner also owns a Revolution. There will be plenty, like me, who will buy a Revolution first and have a "wait and see" attitude about the other two.
Rakael
10-07-2005, 11:45 AM
Same here Abednigo, especially after the two flaming retards who head Sony and MS's gaming divisions keep opening their mouths.
Ernst_Jager
10-07-2005, 11:51 AM
Honestly, I couldn't care less about the Rev. controller. Nintendo could probably have unveiled a golden turd that used grunts to control the game and people would have ate it up.
Magnanimous Gnome
10-07-2005, 11:59 AM
Honestly, I couldn't care less about the Rev. controller. Nintendo could probably have unveiled a golden turd that used grunts to control the game and people would have ate it up.
Probably, because Nintendo's games ALWAYS (with VERY few exceptions, ever) kick ass. Remember, this is about the games still, right?
It also helps that Nintendo's lead mouthpiece, Reggie Fils-Aime, is actually funny, in a good way. He doesn't make me laugh like the sad, rambling crazies that are J "OMG TEH HARDDRIVER!!!" Allard and Ken "THE PSP IS PREFERCT, THE PS3 GAMES EVOLVE THEMESELVES!!!" Kutaragi.
Demo_Boy
10-07-2005, 12:03 PM
The "It was my idea first" comment from Allard is his shout up to management whom instead listened to focus group testing. He's basically saying "Hey MS honchos, I knew we shoulda put a motion sensor in the 360 controller!!! Next time I come up with an idea you listen to meeeee!!"
Allard may be working at the wrong company. If he wanted to innovate he should be at Nintendo.
Butters66
10-07-2005, 12:20 PM
Wow.
Another set of knee jerk MS hating posts. What a surprise.
1. He said the same points most of us made when the Rev Controller was annouced. Go back and read the posts here. I guess all those people were idiots to?
2. He doesn't bash the controller overall, he just says that it will be bad for typical games. Games that EA makes billions on. People will buying 360's to have the latest graphics to play Madden. That his target audience, and he is trying to say that the Rev controller will be bad for that.
3. This is a point Nintendo has stressed as well. They point out cube controllers will work on the rev, and that type of controllers will be the typical controller you would use for cross platform games.
4. Don't get me wrong - I happen to love the new controller. However, I love it for the potential for new types of games. Not games that already exist. The 360 and PS3 are beefed up evolutionary platforms that make my current set of games better. I want this as well as new games.
I agree with the posts that Nindendo is hoping to be the second console. It already is for me. I love my Mario Kart and Metroid. My other box is an Xbox. That covers all the games I want out of console. I plan to do the same for the next generation, unless the PS3 shows me some type of live system.
He is just trying position his box. This was a good interview, unless you just hate MS for the sake of hating MS.
Ernst_Jager
10-07-2005, 12:25 PM
Probably, because Nintendo's games ALWAYS (with VERY few exceptions, ever) kick ass. Remember, this is about the games still, right?
It also helps that Nintendo's lead mouthpiece, Reggie Fils-Aime, is actually funny, in a good way. He doesn't make me laugh like the sad, rambling crazies that are J "OMG TEH HARDDRIVER!!!" Allard and Ken "THE PSP IS PREFERCT, THE PS3 GAMES EVOLVE THEMESELVES!!!" Kutaragi.
Yeah if you like playing the same game over and over again. I owned a NES and SNES years ago. I want new games on new systems. I am not paying $300+ for a system so I can play 8bit games on a HD TV. I want good games AND top end graphics. Why should I settle for less when the Xbox360 and the PS3 could deliver this? It will take much more than a fancy controller that will let me swing it around to control the game. I like Nintendo as much as anyone (well not as much as the diehard fanboys) but they will have to show me more than a controller to open my wallet.
Heretic Machine
10-07-2005, 12:27 PM
Yeah if you like playing the same game over and over again. I owned a NES and SNES years ago. I want new games on new systems. I am not paying $300+ for a system so I can play 8bit games on a HD TV. I want good games AND top end graphics. Why should I settle for less when the Xbox360 and the PS3 could deliver this? It will take much more than a fancy controller that will let me swing it around to control the game. I like Nintendo as much as anyone (well not as much as the diehard fanboys) but they will have to show me more than a controller to open my wallet.
Soo... you don't want to play the same kind of games over again, but you don't want innovation? So, you want to not play games anymore? Then Sony is the company for you my friend, because they aren't making a game console next generation!
I blame Nintendo for being the mother that spawned the largest number of redundant arguments on a gaming site ever. They need to hurry up and release their console so we can do away with posts like Perigon's and Ernst's.
PS All consoles suck. Irony rocks.
saran_js
10-07-2005, 01:01 PM
Yeah, this is what Microsoft is famous for... stealing ideas and making as if they thought of the idea first, and then giving some lame excuse that it is not viable as their focus group said no, so as to cover up their stupidity.
Reminds me of the recent fight about the ipod playlist that was designed by Apple and then Microsoft goes in and puts in a patent on the idea.
How original.
mister_slim
10-07-2005, 01:03 PM
That excerpt is just flamebait. Sure, Allard seems to be confusing some rather different control concepts (why is it that the people who criticize the controller don't seem to understand how it works?), but he's just positioning his ass away from any splashback, good or bad. It's not really criticism of the controller.
Edit: this is, by the way, why Nintendo avoids TGS and MS has X0. To avoid those weird upsets, like Sony's "$300" or Nintendo announcing the Rev controller.
Right because Apple has never stolen anything. Like a windows and mouse driven gui, or the mouse itself. Apple fucked up and didn't file the patent it when they should of. I'm sure someone got fired over it.
All companies pull this crap. I'm tired of people only using that fact to back up their own point of views.
mister_slim
10-07-2005, 01:06 PM
Right because Apple has never stolen anything. Like a windows and mouse driven gui, or the mouse itself. Apple fucked up and didn't file the patent it when they should of. I'm sure someone got fired over it.
I'm not saying Apple is somehow pure, but that above is not accurate.
Ernst_Jager
10-07-2005, 01:10 PM
Soo... you don't want to play the same kind of games over again, but you don't want innovation? So, you want to not play games anymore? Then Sony is the company for you my friend, because they aren't making a game console next generation!
There is more to innovation than a controller.
It really pisses me off how everyone's classifying the rev controller as simple and 'for casual gamers'. Yes casual gamers will have an easier time with it but it is just as good for hardcore gamers. You could create some very complicated stuff with 4 axis (analog joystick, dpad, moving the controller up and down, side-to-side, left and right). Any hardcore gamer worth his salt will realize that this controller is the best thing you can get on a console to play FPS's. Hey we'll finally have a decent way to aim in GTA! The Rev controller is great for everyone.
Tennistoad
10-07-2005, 01:19 PM
Let's see.. The Bozo who ruined the dreamcast is tellin me how he likes games he can play with his daughter...Ah the xbox didn't really get going till Seamus left and I think I'll wait to get a 360 till Moore leaves. Way 2 go *** hire a guy with a losing record...
Borys
10-07-2005, 01:23 PM
So much Allard hate...
What he was supposed to say? He works for MS and he has to be pro-MS anti-everyone else. Typical big corps business.
There's a better story waiting to be posted here, about MS (Bill Gates himself) sabotaging Blu-Ray...
kickmybum
10-07-2005, 01:23 PM
Awww. can't believe you guys changed the title up. I liked it better when he was bashing it (which is mostly what he was doing).
I'm not saying Apple is somehow pure, but that above is not accurate.
Okay, if you say so.
(http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13411878,00.html)
mister_slim
10-07-2005, 01:39 PM
There is more to innovation than a controller.
True, but it's one of the best places to start. Games are interactive entertainment. The best route to better games? Better interaction. That means interface, that means controller. Sure, mechanics systems and aesthetics are important, but being able to interact elegantly is the most important aspect. The current controller is a very poor analogy for head and eye movement.
Okay, if you say so.
(http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13411878,00.html)
What does that have to do with the genealogy of the GUI and the mouse?
I couldn't figure out what you were talking about. I thought we all knew Apple lifted the GUI and mouse from Xerox
Cha-Ka
10-07-2005, 01:42 PM
People who hang on every word that tumbles out of the mouths of bozos like Allard deserve the heartache it yields them.
Mr.Green
10-07-2005, 01:46 PM
This thread has made me lose a little more faith in humanity.
I need a shower.
Stop looking for faith. Start looking for humor.
Mr.Green
10-07-2005, 01:53 PM
Stop looking for faith. Start looking for humor.
But what if I die laughing? :)
Heretic Machine
10-07-2005, 01:54 PM
Taco... For god's sake SHUT THE FUCK UP if you aren't going to say anything worth hearing.
mister_slim
10-07-2005, 02:03 PM
I couldn't figure out what you were talking about. I thought we all knew Apple lifted the GUI and mouse from Xerox
Lifted, stolen, licensed?
Mojopin
10-07-2005, 02:10 PM
Taco... For god's sake SHUT THE FUCK UP if you aren't going to say anything worth hearing.
Take your own advice sometime. You really get bent outta shape on these forums man, maybe you should get out and hang out with regular people instead of pretending they are orcs and evil mages, poor angry little larper. :p
Oh and by the way, we are reading these posts not hearing them. Unless we can post in sound files now... :rolleyes:
omnithrope
10-07-2005, 02:12 PM
So much Allard hate...
What he was supposed to say? He works for MS and he has to be pro-MS anti-everyone else. Typical big corps business.
There's a better story waiting to be posted here, about MS (Bill Gates himself) sabotaging Blu-Ray...
How about he just keeps his mouth shut for once?
He doesn't have to say anything, especially "Oh, that? It was my idea."
I'm not saying Apple is somehow pure, but that above is not accurate.
It was entirely accurate. Apple stole every "original" Macintosh idea ffrom the XEROX PARC team, and Bill Gates stole it from him in turn.
lurker4hire
10-07-2005, 02:30 PM
Lifted, stolen, licensed?
Damn, someone beat me to it, but I'll make it a little more explicit.
I'm pretty sure Apple paid Xerox for the technology they used out of their thinktank. That is, after all, the business method of thinktanks (Xerox Parc developed the gui we all know and love iirc), come up with a bunch of cool ideas and sell them to companies that recognize their value and have the wherewithall to commercialize some leading edge ideas.
People make it out as if apple did nothing more than take the ideas, what they did was buy the ideas and make them work in a successful commercial product that has lasted decades... no small feat for any start-up technology company at any time.
ok, back to the MS/nintendo flamewar, sorry for the tangent
Heretic Machine
10-07-2005, 02:32 PM
Take your own advice sometime. You really get bent outta shape on these forums man, maybe you should get out and hang out with regular people instead of pretending they are orcs and evil mages, poor angry little larper.
Oh and by the way, we are reading these posts not hearing them. Unless we can post in sound files now...
Blah, blah, blah. When you can't make any kind of logical argument, make fun of the person who makes the most sence! Good strategy, asshole.
Microsoft isn't more evil than Apple, they just do evil BIGGER.
NACIONAL
10-07-2005, 02:57 PM
Blah, blah, blah. When you can't make any kind of logical argument, make fun of the person who makes the most sence! Good strategy, asshole.
Ohh my... Please STOP the trolling.. not just perigon.. but everyone else...
We have over 50 post about something that was said long before,.
bean19
10-07-2005, 02:58 PM
Wow. . . Omg, he said that people didn't respond well to it when they did research about the product. He so pwned Nintendo!!! ROFLCOPTER!
Lifted, stolen, licensed?
Well I guess I don't fault MS for taking advantage of Apples screwup, thus, to me, it's only a comparison of copying what someone else did. Apple would of done the same.
Perigon.
I ..... LOVE ........ you man.....
/grabs beer
Edit: Very nice title Bone. I need a clever one.
bapenguin
10-07-2005, 03:08 PM
So much Allard hate...
What he was supposed to say? He works for MS and he has to be pro-MS anti-everyone else. Typical big corps business.
There's a better story waiting to be posted here, about MS (Bill Gates himself) sabotaging Blu-Ray...
Oooh where? I'm just waiting for the whole HD-DVD/Blu-Ray thing to really explode....
there's been little salvos fired back and forth for a while...i'm waiting for the big bang.
CapnBob
10-07-2005, 03:16 PM
Microsoft also discounted the viability of the Wavebird at first, and they based the original XBox controller on "extensive gamer input." So, either Microsoft's implementation of all the great ideas and feedback just sucks and they have to wait for someone else to show them how to do it right or they simply don't know how to get good samplings for their focus groups. Or perhaps both are accurate?
For the original Xbox controller I'd have to guess they just had a crappy focus group, as well as a less than stellar research effort. My monster hands prefer the original, maybe they had very large people in the group ;).
As far as discounting the Wavebird it's got to be the former. How could someone think a wireless controller done right wouldn't catch on?
omnithrope
10-07-2005, 03:20 PM
As far as discounting the Wavebird it's got to be the former. How could someone think a wireless controller done right wouldn't catch on?
Ask Microsoft.
To be fair MS discounts everything, that seems to be part of their "strategy". Even at their peak they have said Google and the iPod are flawed ideas and products that will not survive over the long haul. Not to mention Linux, which has made a good sized dent in the server market. Who knows what they were really thinking.
CapnBob
10-07-2005, 03:35 PM
With wireless controllers and touchscreens and now this 3D mouse/pointer/gyroscope, we're not really talking about new ideas or new technology. They've all existed in the PC realm and simply have not been successfully applied to games up to this point, largely because nobody took the time to think up ways to implement them or the technology simply has not been built to a reliable and precise enough standard up until now. The difference between what Nintendo is doing and what Allard is saying about their testing with the ideas is that Nintendo spends their time and effort to fix the hurdles of both reliability and conceptual use, while it sounds like Microsoft took an unrefined version of the technology, tried to shoehorn it into traditional control schemes and then asked a couple of random kids whether they liked it or not and then dropped it when they didn't get an immediate positive response.
Achilles
10-07-2005, 03:43 PM
Wow, you guys are just full of vitriol aren't you? We're talking about video games here, entertainment.
He's with a competing company. Of course he can't be 100% positive and talk about what a great idea it is. That'd be akin to saying "Wow, their controller idea is so much better than ours!! Everyone should buy the revolution!" Yeah, that's great business. Of course, that'd probably make all of you happy and instead of the hatred you'd start spouting "Wow, J Allard is swell! He really knows what he's talking about. Go Nintendo!"What’s awesome is that he wasn’t even negative about it, he just said they looked into it and developers weren’t that keen on it. Still even that’s enough for the Nintendo fans to call for him to be fired, lynched, tarred and burned. Apparently you can’t find any fault at all in anything Nintendo does or folks will come after you.
These quotes are the quotes from the interview earlier this week except the article puts a spin on them so now people are all upset. But they’re the same quotes from the interview where people said he was praising the controller. Amazing what a little editorial interjection can do.
Achilles
10-07-2005, 03:48 PM
and they based the original XBox controller on "extensive gamer input." Yeah if "extensive gamer input" was the guy drawing the controller and the people in the immediate vacinity. Granted they were all gamers. The first Xbox controller didn't have extensive focus testing, it just felt pretty good to the people who were making it and the very few unfocused groups they had looking at it.
bean19
10-07-2005, 04:08 PM
With wireless controllers and touchscreens and now this 3D mouse/pointer/gyroscope, we're not really talking about new ideas or new technology. They've all existed in the PC realm and simply have not been successfully applied to games up to this point, largely because nobody took the time to think up ways to implement them or the technology simply has not been built to a reliable and precise enough standard up until now. The difference between what Nintendo is doing and what Allard is saying about their testing with the ideas is that Nintendo spends their time and effort to fix the hurdles of both reliability and conceptual use, while it sounds like Microsoft took an unrefined version of the technology, tried to shoehorn it into traditional control schemes and then asked a couple of random kids whether they liked it or not and then dropped it when they didn't get an immediate positive response.
Anything to do with the console wars requires tons of reading to find the insightful comments. However, when they are found, they are very special.
Good post CapnBob.
Nessus
10-07-2005, 04:29 PM
I'm a huge Nintendo fan and I think MS has been extremely kind in their responces actually.
I wonder if it has something to do with residual desire to purchase Nintendo some day.
thecrazyd
10-07-2005, 05:51 PM
I'm a huge Nintendo fan and I think MS has been extremely kind in their responces actually.
I wonder if it has something to do with residual desire to purchase Nintendo some day.
I dunno. It sort of reads as a backhanded congrats. Basically along the lines of "It's really great that you are making a controller made for little children and retards." Calling it simplified seems to ignore the depth of control that is available with a device like that. Just because it is intrinsic does not mean it is simple.
Maybe so, but what else are they going to say? It's either a backhanded compliment for a baseless dig. They certainly aren't going to say "Congrats Nintendo at making something people may want to purchase instead of our system".
thecrazyd
10-07-2005, 06:41 PM
Maybe so, but what else are they going to say? It's either a backhanded compliment for a baseless dig. They certainly aren't going to say "Congrats Nintendo at making something people may want to purchase instead of our system".
Well, he could keep his damned mouth shut. Maybe say its a good idea, and leave it at that?
saran_js
10-07-2005, 10:43 PM
Screw him ! After all he is Billy's and Steve's bitch.
Stand up !!, Sit !!, Shake hands !!, Bark !!, Good Boy ! Good J. Here have a biscuit.
megaman
10-08-2005, 02:32 AM
hahahahaa..allard..ahahahahahaha...
can any1 just walk into ms and hav a job?
Achilles
10-08-2005, 03:43 AM
Screw him ! After all he is Billy's and Steve's bitch.
Stand up !!, Sit !!, Shake hands !!, Bark !!, Good Boy ! Good J. Here have a biscuit. hahahahaa..allard..ahahahahahaha...
can any1 just walk into ms and hav a job? Well, he could keep his damned mouth shut. Maybe say its a good idea, and leave it at that?At first in response to these last three posts I was going to say something along the lines of “what the hell happened to the community on this site?”. But I think the sheer amount of anger leveled at MS and J lately is only because they’ve got the best stuff coming out and people who need to dislike them are getting very edgy because of it.
It reminds me of the Sony fans back in the day, who never said anything or even flamed people who called the PS2 a piece of crap, because they had all the games they could want and didn't care what people thought of their system. Currently it seems to be the same way with the 360. It has the best launch lineup ever and amazing games coming down the pipe, most Xbox fans don't stick up for it that much, they're just loving the fact that the system is going to completely rock and they're going to have a ton of great games to play while detractors bicker about how much the Core system sucks, or how J said the Revolution controller might be less than perfect at everything anyone could ever want to do.
Good times.
nonchalance
10-08-2005, 04:39 AM
"We did a lot of research with gamers, talked to a lot of game developers and said, 'Should we put an accelerometer in there and do the tilt thing?' And there wasn't that much enthusiasm around it."
That's not the Revolution.
That's WarioWare Twisted.
Heretic Machine
10-08-2005, 12:24 PM
But I think the sheer amount of anger leveled at MS and J lately is only because they’ve got the best stuff coming out and people who need to dislike them are getting very edgy because of it.
...How is it the best stuff again? Nintendo one-upped them on innovation, and Sony will one-up them on sheer power.
It reminds me of the Sony fans back in the day, who never said anything or even flamed people who called the PS2 a piece of crap, because they had all the games they could want and didn't care what people thought of their system.
What kind of dream-land are you trying to make here, buddy? Do you think people are stupid enough to buy in to your little wet-dream?
It has the best launch lineup ever and amazing games coming down the pipe
A dozen sports titles + two Rare games. Might be the worst launch line-up, ever, excluding the PS2.
most Xbox fans don't stick up for it that much
Being raped up the ass by a company you supported for five years will queit you down a bit.
Achilles
10-08-2005, 01:54 PM
...How is it the best stuff again? Nintendo one-upped them on innovation, and Sony will one-up them on sheer power.
What kind of dream-land are you trying to make here, buddy? Do you think people are stupid enough to buy in to your little wet-dream?
A dozen sports titles + two Rare games. Might be the worst launch line-up, ever, excluding the PS2.
Being raped up the ass by a company you supported for five years will queit you down a bit.You're blind and there's nothing wrong with that. You look at the 360's launch titles and see 2 Rare games and a dozen sports games... wow. I know you don't care, but for other people reading this, here's some games that they showed off at X05 (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/655/655291p1.html). And here’s their complete launch window lineup (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/641/641086p1.html).
It’s got more variety and more anticipated games than any other lineup. What you think about it doesn’t matter because you’ve already proven how biased you are by saying that it’s only a dozen sports games and 2 Rare games. It is in fact 6 FPSs, 4 Sports games, 2 trick style games, 2 completely different adventure games (Saints Row and Kameo), 3 racing games, 1 car combat game, 1 fighting game, 1 MMORPG, and 1 RPG. Name a better lineup.
Stuff like that is what I’m talking about as far as people desperate to believe that the 360 is going to suck. But it's not so they scream that it is on every 360 thread.
thecrazyd
10-08-2005, 02:17 PM
A dozen sports titles + two Rare games. Might be the worst launch line-up, ever, excluding the PS2.
Correction. A dozen sports titles + two Rare games + a couple of games that will be better on the PC anyway.
It’s got more variety and more anticipated games than any other lineup. What you think about it doesn’t matter because you’ve already proven how biased you are by saying that it’s only a dozen sports games and 2 Rare games. It is in fact 6 FPSs, 4 Sports games, 2 trick style games, 2 completely different adventure games (Saints Row and Kameo), 3 racing games, 1 car combat game, 1 fighting game, 1 MMORPG, and 1 RPG. Name a better lineup.
So it has more diverse crap. How many of those games look halfway decent? Maybe 3. And you just broke up the sports games into fake genres you made up off the top of your head. What the hell is "trick style"?
Achilles
10-08-2005, 02:37 PM
So it has more diverse crap. How many of those games look halfway decent? Maybe 3. And you just broke up the sports games into fake genres you made up off the top of your head. What the hell is "trick style"?The term eXtreme sports is a little too eXtreme for me so I invented the term trick style about a half hour ago for my last post. Basically Tony Hawk and Amped. Also your post is awesome. Have fun not owning a 360. My answer to "how many of them look half way decent" would be; most of them. I think CoD2, Oblivion, DOA4, PGR3, Quake 4, Kameo, Ghost Recon, and Condemned look half way decent. And if you think CoD2, Oblivion, and Quake 4 suck you must not be getting them for PC either.
Magnanimous Gnome
10-08-2005, 02:42 PM
Right because Apple has never stolen anything. Like a windows and mouse driven gui, or the mouse itself. Apple fucked up and didn't file the patent it when they should of. I'm sure someone got fired over it.
All companies pull this crap. I'm tired of people only using that fact to back up their own point of views.
As has already been pointed out, Apple PAID for those techs. This was over TWENTY fucking years ago now, can't people EVER get this right? Sheesh.
Compare this to MS, who has faced several anti-trust investiagations (and should have faced more), squashed Netscape illegally, daily says that the competition is "flawed" (as if Windows hasn't always been majorly flawed), and just in general abuses it's monopoly and position of power to shove itself around the whole tech market.
Microsoft also discounted the viability of the Wavebird at first, and they based the original XBox controller on "extensive gamer input." So, either Microsoft's implementation of all the great ideas and feedback just sucks and they have to wait for someone else to show them how to do it right or they simply don't know how to get good samplings for their focus groups. Or perhaps both are accurate?
I remember them bashing the Wavebird. Pretty amusing now that they are releasing their own version and gouging the price up to FIFTY bucks, twenty dollars higher than the Wavebird goes for. I've even seen the Wavebird for twenty dollars at Target, so the 360 controller is 30 dollars higher in that case. I really shouldn't be surprised, since I had to buy my original Xbox controllers for 40 bucks each.
Achilles
10-08-2005, 02:53 PM
I remember them bashing the Wavebird. Pretty amusing now that they are releasing their own version and gouging the price up to FIFTY bucks.Wasn't the Wavebird $50 or $60 when it first came out? The 360 controller is more advanced, it has tactile feedback (the best of any system), the sticks are better, and you can recharge it by plugging it into the console and still play games with it while you're doing so. It's a really good controller. I’d like to see this article where they bashed the wavebird, since what qualifies for bashing Nintendo could be something as small as them saying “it’s cool but it’s not for us".
mister_slim
10-08-2005, 02:54 PM
Maybe so, but what else are they going to say? It's either a backhanded compliment for a baseless dig. They certainly aren't going to say "Congrats Nintendo at making something people may want to purchase instead of our system".
Hey, they could continue to pretend Nintendo's strategy for the last two years is based on a speech MS made at E3 2005.
Wasn't the Wavebird $50 or $60 when it first came out? The 360 controller is more advanced, it has tactile feedback (the best of any system), the sticks are better, and you can recharge it by plugging it into the console and still play games with it while you're doing so. It's a really good controller. I’d like to see this article where they bashed the wavebird, since what qualifies for bashing Nintendo could be something as small as them saying “it’s cool but it’s not for us".
I seem to remember it being $35. And I can get a Logitech wireless Xbox controller for $30. The 360 peripheral prices are nonsense.
Achilles
10-08-2005, 03:12 PM
I seem to remember it being $35. And I can get a Logitech wireless Xbox controller for $30. The 360 peripheral prices are nonsense.They are a little higher than what people expect. I can understand the harddrive because of what it is, being custom made and all. But folks seem to always try to charge $10 more than what people think is reasonable (Nintendo is usually pretty good about it with hardware), I'd include the 360 controller in this as much as I like it, and the faceplates which would sell like hot cakes if they were $9.99. It is an extremely good controller though, better than the wavebird in my opinion. It's effectively a wireless controller S with shoulder buttons.
You're right that the price on the wavebird was $35, after reading a 2 page review that didn't mention the price I found it over on the side bar.
Magnanimous Gnome
10-08-2005, 03:38 PM
Wasn't the Wavebird $50 or $60 when it first came out? The 360 controller is more advanced, it has tactile feedback (the best of any system), the sticks are better, and you can recharge it by plugging it into the console and still play games with it while you're doing so. It's a really good controller. I’d like to see this article where they bashed the wavebird, since what qualifies for bashing Nintendo could be something as small as them saying “it’s cool but it’s not for us".
They were $35 MSRP, but many stores sold them for 30. I picked up both of mine shortly after the controller launched for $30 each.
Actually, you have to buy a kit to be able to plug the controller into the Xbox and continue playing. Make that a $60 controller then. ;)
Some of the parts may be "better", but I would say that a lot of this is subjective - I personally do not like the Controller S. Still, it's definitely not worth $50, that's just insane. Anything higher than $30 is silly. It seems to be the general theme with all of the 360's first party periphals though - glareingly overpriced.
Achilles
10-08-2005, 03:44 PM
Some of the parts may be "better", but I would say that a lot of this is subjective - I personally do not like the Controller S. Still, it's definitely not worth $50, that's just insane. Anything higher than $30 is silly. It seems to be the general theme with all of the 360's first party periphals though - glareingly overpriced.Yeah it is subjective. For me it's worth $50 and should come with the charger thing so it's overpriced by $10, but hey I'll still get it, it's a damn good controller.
I think they're trying a partial iPod strategy here; sell the system at way under cost (the video card alone would cost you more at retail than what you're getting the whole system for, not that you'll be able to buy it for another year or so), and accessorize it back up to a point where you're not losing money like crazy. I'll buy those accessories, a lot of other people will as well. If you don't think they're worth it, don't buy them; buy wired controllers and ignore all the customization, it's still the same system, just not as fancy.
ClamSmasher
10-08-2005, 04:08 PM
Have fun not owning a 360. My answer to "how many of them look half way decent" would be; most of them.
Well, I'm glad to hear that most of the games look "half-way decent," which is definitely a step-up from utter horseshit.
It is an extremely good controller though, better than the wavebird in my opinion. It's effectively a wireless controller S with shoulder buttons.
I might be jumping to conclusions, but it's a fairly safe bet that you haven't tried the Xbox360 or used the controller to play games. So in other words... SHUT UP!
Achilles
10-08-2005, 04:12 PM
Well, I'm glad to hear that most of the games look "half-way decent," which is definitely a step-up from utter horseshit.
I might be jumping to conclusions, but it's a fairly safe bet that you haven't tried the Xbox360 or used the controller to play games. So in other words... SHUT UP!I was using his term "half way decent" I think the games I listed look amazing. And no, I didn't try the controller if you completely discount every game I played at E3 and since then on it. Have you used the controller there Clam?
Heretic Machine
10-09-2005, 12:59 AM
And here’s their complete launch window lineup.
launch window
Yes, great games are coming out in the "launch window". That does absolutely DICK for you on launch day, when you get to sit around playing a dozen sports titles, and two Rare games. A month later you might be playing Saint's Row, but not before, and so I really don't care. When I buy a console, I want to play it then, not a month later.
Heretic Machine
10-09-2005, 07:40 PM
Wasn't the Wavebird $50 or $60 when it first came out? The 360 controller is more advanced, it has tactile feedback (the best of any system), the sticks are better, and you can recharge it by plugging it into the console and still play games with it while you're doing so. It's a really good controller. I’d like to see this article where they bashed the wavebird, since what qualifies for bashing Nintendo could be something as small as them saying “it’s cool but it’s not for us".
You'll have to buy a play and charge kit + a rechargable battery pack.
Wireless Controller = $50
Play & Charge Kit = $20
Total Price = $72
That's about the cost of a GBA SP.
Achilles
10-09-2005, 08:04 PM
You'll have to buy a play and charge kit + a rechargable battery pack.
Wireless Controller = $50
Play & Charge Kit = $20
Total Price = $72
That's about the cost of a GBA SP.Yep, pricey, but everyone I'll be playing with will have a wireless controller of their own that came with their system, so it shouldn't be that much of a problem. That is unless they start releasing ones that are translucent versions in other colors. I'm a sucker for those. I was never interested in the Wavebird just because it doesn't have rumble, and the corded one that came with the system worked just fine.
Wired controllers are $39 though if you don’t want to spend the money on the wireless. Honestly if the system didn't come with a wireless controller I'd just buy a wired one.
Heretic Machine
10-10-2005, 01:56 AM
Hell, I'm not buying any of that junk, I won a premium bundle. I'm just saying, their accessories are stupid-expensive.
Achilles
10-10-2005, 01:58 AM
Hell, I'm not buying any of that junk, I won a premium bundle. I'm just saying, their accessories are stupid-expensive.The premium bundle doesn't include the battery pack and charger. So you're probably going to buy at least one stupid expesnive accessory.
You sure do a lot of complaining for someone who's getting the thing for free.
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