City of Heroes and Villains to share monthly fee [Archive]

TomO

10-06-2005, 05:49 AM

NCsoft Europe has announced (http://www.pro-g.co.uk/news/nid/1106/1609/) its aggressive pricing structure for City of Villains and City of Heroes. Both games will be playable online with just one subscription fee of £8.99 (€12.99) per month. This means that existing City of Heroes players will be able to play City of Villains at no extra cost once they have bought the game.

Savok

10-06-2005, 06:13 AM

Hah, I fucking told them they'd do this, but no one listens to me.

makkura

10-06-2005, 06:16 AM

quiet you !

LilEvilFish

10-06-2005, 06:17 AM

What a good idea

Thenetcase

10-06-2005, 06:18 AM

I think that they should actually charge a little extra, IMHO. Maybe a couple dollars a month more to make it $15 a month. But if they think they can make enough money with this pay scheme, more power to them. I'll definitely be playing both... and I'll be PVPing when I get the chance too. Imagine it. ;)

-TNC-

lost

10-06-2005, 06:27 AM

....struggling to resist.....life must not be consumed by low priced evil....will fading...subscription form glowing....aaaaarhhggghhh

Tharsis

10-06-2005, 06:33 AM

Sweeeeeeet. I always knew that doing Evil was cheaper than doing Good!

BigJonno

10-06-2005, 06:37 AM

Buy Good, get Evil free!

darkwarrior

10-06-2005, 06:45 AM

civx

10-06-2005, 06:51 AM

Hahaha, so much for being a "seperate" game.

Malovech

10-06-2005, 07:07 AM

I'm confused isn't this a PvP expansion where heroes fight villians?

civx

10-06-2005, 07:17 AM

I'm confused isn't this a PvP expansion where heroes fight villians?

Yes, this is that expansion.

It was supposed to be a completely different game and was supposed to play differently as well, which is why they were going to charge monthly fees.

Except this is an MMORPG so it ended up being exactly the same thing as City of Heroes only everything is more red.

Chimpbot

10-06-2005, 07:43 AM

Yes, this is that expansion.

It was supposed to be a completely different game and was supposed to play differently as well, which is why they were going to charge monthly fees.

Except this is an MMORPG so it ended up being exactly the same thing as City of Heroes only everything is more red.

That, and the character classes are different.
Since it's an MMORPG, and an offshoot of a pre-existing MMORPG at that, there's only so many ways it can be "different"; it has to maintain an inherent "sameness" since it has to interact with the original game, but it manages to be different enough from the original to merit a purchase.

For example; one of the classes in CoV is essentially a summoner. You summon "evil minions" to do your bidding in battle. There was absolutely nothing like that in CoH, which means the game sortakindamaybe fulfills the "different from CoH" qualifier.

civx

10-06-2005, 07:48 AM

That, and the character classes are different.
Since it's an MMORPG, and an offshoot of a pre-existing MMORPG at that, there's only so many ways it can be "different"; it has to maintain an inherent "sameness" since it has to interact with the original game, but it manages to be different enough from the original to merit a purchase.

For example; one of the classes in CoV is essentially a summoner. You summon "evil minions" to do your bidding in battle. There was absolutely nothing like that in CoH, which means the game sortakindamaybe fulfills the "different from CoH" qualifier.

By "the classes are different" you mean "the classes are the same as CoH only more evil and with different descriptions"

Also, it wasn't supposed to just be an off shoot. It was supposed to be completely different from CoH, thus the extra monthly fee to play it. Like I said, it's just like CoH only more red.

And controllers could summon creatures ;)

Demo_Boy

10-06-2005, 07:58 AM

I think this is absolutely the right move for Cryptic and NCSoft in terms of pricing.

There won't be any fallout from a seperate sub fee and it facilitates people picking up the new box at full price.

Roc Ingersol

10-06-2005, 08:15 AM

This means that existing City of Heroes players will be able to play City of Villains at no extra cost once they have bought the game.
Kinda like every other massmog expansion.

People actually thought you'd have to pay more?

Savok

10-06-2005, 08:47 AM

Jesus people still have no fucking idea about CoV.

Ok, CoV is a stand alone game AND expansion in that it adds features to CoH. By the same token, CoH itself has become an expansion as it adds things to CoV (from what the devs have said).

CoV's AT system is wildly different from CoH, 4 of them could be considered offshoots of CoH ATs with the Mastermind being totally new (no, they aren't controllers, they can control their pets and have powers specific to doing things to said pets).

Everything learnt from Striga and Croatoa has gone into CoV, it appears as a living breathing world that looks to shit all over CoH. Another reason why the fees are combined, paying for CoH after CoV is going to be insulting.

You want to ignore it, great, more room for my Mastermind and his army of ninja.

Cha-Ka

10-06-2005, 09:24 AM

I've seen a lot of valid points on this thread, but I have come to share the opinion that once you get over the somantics of Expansion-vs-stand-along-game it's pretty clear that CoV is largely a re-hash of CoH elements. The "new" ATs re-shuffle the existing powersets with approximately 20% of the powers actually being new to the game. There are some substantial differences in the strategies and playstyles that work well for the new ATs, but I think CoH veterans will have to forgive the glaring similarities and play the new ATs to grasp them.

That said, I'm still very disappointed with Cryptic for recycling so much content and focusing their development on new zones and pushing the game toward PvP. I'm all for PvP in games that are designed to have it from day one, but PvP implementation in CoH reminds me of forcing a round peg into a square hole. It's just not a good fit. So far I've seen nothing in CoV to make me revise this opinion.

Everything learnt from Striga and Croatoa has gone into CoV, it appears as a living breathing world that looks to shit all over CoH.
I can't really agree, but the newspaper thing is a nice addition. This world is a little shinier and a little more graphically detailed than the CoH world, but it contains no more "life" or "respiration" in my view.

Jesus people still have no fucking idea about CoV.

I find your abrasiveness on this topic a little off-base. How do you know where people are getting their CoV info? I guess you're just providing the 'attitude' that this site is known for. Way to go!

Deadend

10-06-2005, 09:24 AM

Hmm, if CoV gets good reviews I may pick it up.
I liked CoH for awhile and still find it to be the MMO with the most fun, due to the movement systam and pacing.

Klade

10-06-2005, 09:29 AM

Ok so here's the history. When CoH was released the devs said that they would add in playable villians at a later date most likely as an expansion.

Then when CoV was shown at E3 (not this past one but the one before that), the devs said that the game was a stand alone product with a seperate monthly fee. This pissed off a lot of people since most people can be wiseled into paying for one MMO but not two and especially not two that exist more or less in the same game universe. You can call it a new game or an expansion, it doesn't really matter because if the devs were going to charge two monthly fees to have access to CoH and CoV then the game would have bombed.

This was the smart and most obvious decision for them to make.

Cha-Ka

10-06-2005, 09:33 AM

You can call it a new game or an expansion, it doesn't really matter because if the devs were going to charge two monthly fees to have access to CoH and CoV then the game would have bombed.

This was the smart and most obvious decision for them to make.

I couldn't agree more

Savok

10-06-2005, 09:34 AM

I find your abrasiveness on this topic a little off-base. How do you know where people are getting their CoV info? I guess you're just providing the 'attitude' that this site is known for. Way to go!
This site has a long history of having no idea when it comes to CoH, I'm really sick of explaining things over and over.

civx

10-06-2005, 09:35 AM

This site has a long history of having no idea when it comes to CoH, I'm really sick of explaining things over and over.

It must be hard to defend a game on an online message board about videogames.

Goronmon

10-06-2005, 09:40 AM

This site has a long history of having no idea when it comes to CoH, I'm really sick of explaining things over and over.
I just don't think people knew you had already gotten a chance to play CoV.

Magnanimous Gnome

10-06-2005, 10:05 AM

I can't believe City of Villians costs 50 bucks! Is it really adding THAT much? A new engine or something?

Savok

10-06-2005, 10:16 AM

I'm more talking about CoH, but it seems the trend has gone over to CoV as well.

And yes, they've added phyics now, along with the fact it's a stand alone and CoH has so far had FIVE free mini-expansions. I'm shocked I haven't coughed up more money before this.

civx

10-06-2005, 10:20 AM

And yes, they've added phyics now, along with the fact it's a stand alone and CoH has so far had FIVE free mini-expansions. I'm shocked I haven't coughed up more money before this.

The fact that you pay a monthly fee for the game does't make the mini expansions free. It's called adding content :O

Savok

10-06-2005, 10:22 AM

How many expansions has Everquest had?

civx

10-06-2005, 10:30 AM

How many expansions has Everquest had?

That has nothing to do with City of Heroes.

Cha-Ka

10-06-2005, 10:34 AM

I'll agree that free updates are cooler than paid updates. EQ2's plan to charge users to download the best levels of new dungeons strikes me as the abusive alternative CoH's free updates.

To hail the makers of CoV for incorporating the lessons they learned from CoH seems a overly charitable. Thankfully, CoV also shows many of the interface and quality of life improvements that CoH users have been calling for since launch (easily obtained newspaper missions, easier enhancement combining interface, options window that doesn't take over the GUI, etc). I only hope those changes make their way over to CoH in an update that closely follows the CoV launch.

Kefkataran

10-06-2005, 10:37 AM

Hahaha, so much for being a "seperate" game.

It's still basically a seperate game. Why? Because you don't need the original to play it, which (at least I would assume) is a definition of an expansion. It's always been planned to have some zone connections to the other game and a lot of the features in it will eventually make it to CoH, so it's expanded in that sense. But you need not have purchased City of Heroes to play City of Villains, thus City of Villains is a standalone game.

Also: fucking rad decision. NCSoft just keeps bumping up on that respect-meter for me.

The fact that you pay a monthly fee for the game does't make the mini expansions free. It's called adding content

The idea that monthly fees are there to provide for new content is a flawed one. While it's true that most MMOs do add new content over time for free, generally it's either meager free content with most being shoved into rapid expansions (Everquest) or stuff that was supposed to be in the game at release but is now being tunneled out as "new" free content (World of Warcraft). Generally and for the most part monthly fees are almost exclusively for: a.) server maintenance and b.) financing the dev team while they work on the numerous expansions.

I respect that the CoH dev team has released the amount of content and all-around game upgrades that they have in just over a year's time.

Phades

10-06-2005, 10:39 AM

This is awesome news to me. As soon as COV came out I was going to drop COH. No way I was going to pay for both. Now, I won't have to. As a big fan of the game, I'm very happy with this decision. NCSoft is awesome.

Savok

10-06-2005, 10:40 AM

Issue 6 for CoH is going to the be the "catch up" issue.

civx

10-06-2005, 10:43 AM

The idea that monthly fees are there to provide for new content is a flawed one. While it's true that most MMOs do add new content over time for free, generally it's either meager free content with most being shoved into rapid expansions (Everquest) or stuff that was supposed to be in the game at release but is now being tunneled out as "new" free content (World of Warcraft). Generally and for the most part monthly fees are almost exclusively for: a.) server maintenance and b.) financing the dev team while they work on the numerous expansions.

I respect that the CoH dev team has released the amount of content and all-around game upgrades that they have in just over a year's time.

I don't really care how "flawed" it is. I'm paying a monthly fee for a game I already paid for. Yes, some of that money goes toward server maintenance, however if I'm still going to pay a monthly fee, I expect added content for free. I'm not going to pay money so they can work on another expansion that I have to pay for...again.

Savok

10-06-2005, 10:46 AM

I expect PC games to be released without showstopping bugs. World doesn't always work how we like it, when it does, happy time.

Bushido

10-06-2005, 11:37 AM

I used to be excited for this game now I am not and I dont know why. COH has to be the most boring game ever.

Klade

10-06-2005, 11:43 AM

I don't really care how "flawed" it is. I'm paying a monthly fee for a game I already paid for. Yes, some of that money goes toward server maintenance, however if I'm still going to pay a monthly fee, I expect added content for free. I'm not going to pay money so they can work on another expansion that I have to pay for...again.

This is a very old argument (old in video game terms). It orginates from the time when Everquest (the original) was still in beta. People were questioning why they should be paying a monthly fee for a game when they can get other online games for free. Verant's answer (SOE was not in control at the time) was that you pay for 2 things. 1) The dev team making new content that will be added over time and 2) good servers and bandwidth that allow people with even dialup access to play on the same level as people with fancy ISDN lines (oh yes it was that time period).

Of course as we all know EQ added such pathetic amount of free content over the years that this concept was mostly done away with. Instead over time the idea of paying monthly fee's has shifted more towards dev's continuing to patch bugs and to maintain the servers. CoH is the first and as far as I know only game to provide real and regular content updates of a substantial amount. EVE also has some substantial content upgraded over the years but it has not been as regular.

Paltry

10-06-2005, 01:40 PM

£8 is pretty much $15.

except fruitier

Kefkataran

10-06-2005, 02:30 PM

DeadPixel

10-06-2005, 02:45 PM

That has nothing to do with City of Heroes.
It has everything to do with CoH. People are used to buying expansion packs and Cryptic brought great ones for no extra fee. The fact that you're paying a monthly fee does not make any difference here, you'd still be paying that same fee without the expansions.

Some people get pissed regardless of what they're given. A stand a lone game and people bitch about the separate fee. They merge the subscription for both games and people still find things to bitch about.

civx: I only hope I don't run into you in CoH/CoV pick up teams, that would be nice.

civx

10-06-2005, 02:54 PM

It has everything to do with CoH. People are used to buying expansion packs and Cryptic brought great ones for no extra fee.

Wow you mean a company actually pulls through and offers extra content after paying them month after month!? Cryptic didn't bring great ones for "free". I don't care what people are used to; thanks to "what people are used to", we get Everquest clone after Everquest clone with the same gameplay model.

The fact that you're paying a monthly fee does not make any difference here, you'd still be paying that same fee without the expansions.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Some people get pissed regardless of what they're given. A stand a lone game and people bitch about the separate fee. They merge the subscription for both games and people still find things to bitch about.

I don't think you understand why people were bitching, but that's okay.

civx: I only hope I don't run into you in CoH/CoV pick up teams, that would be nice.

I hope I don't run into you in real life because I would punch you in the face and rape your girlfriend while you watch.

DeadPixel

10-06-2005, 03:00 PM

I hope I don't run into you in real life because I would punch you in the face and rape your girlfriend while you watch.
WoW you must be a pretty small man to feel so big talking shit on a GAME site. Is all that anger boiled up from lack of real life attention?

That's ok though, cause after that comment no one would take you seriously now. Perhaps the Battle.net forums would suit you needs more.

civx

10-06-2005, 03:08 PM

WoW you must be a pretty small man to feel so big talking shit on a GAME site. Is all that anger boiled up from lack of real life attention?

That's ok though, cause after that comment no one would take you seriously now. Perhaps the Battle.net forums would suit you needs more.

Oh, okay. :rolleyes:

Demo_Boy

10-06-2005, 03:39 PM

Maybe we dont need free expansions after all.

I mean who wanted I5 for COH anyway?

If you had to pay for I5, then players could have decided with their pocketbooks if they wanted their powers halved and quartered in effectiveness...

civx

10-06-2005, 03:44 PM

Mobeus Chronox

10-06-2005, 03:52 PM

I'm confused isn't this a PvP expansion where heroes fight villians?

If you own City of Heroes, its an expansion. If you don't want COH just COV, its a stand alone game, it works either way. COH only players don't get the COV content including group bases, and COV only players don't get COh content, basically paragon city and being a hero.

Mobeus Chronox

10-06-2005, 03:59 PM

it doesn't really matter because if the devs were going to charge two monthly fees to have access to CoH and CoV then the game would have bombed.

This was the smart and most obvious decision for them to make.

It isn't that the game would have bombed, but the player base currently on COH would have been halved as most i've seen want the new content but aren't willing to pay two full priced fees (30 per month), though many were willing to pay 20 or 25 for both. I know I was one of these people who would have abandoned COH for COV if they had not priced things this way or very similarly.

Kefkataran

10-06-2005, 04:36 PM

I hope I don't run into you in real life because I would punch you in the face and rape your girlfriend while you watch.

OMGz atitude LOL

COH only players don't get the COV content including group bases

Last I heard, group bases are among the things in CoV that are eventually to be added to CoH.

civx

10-06-2005, 04:57 PM

OMGz atitude LOL

OMGz troling LOL

Thenetcase

10-06-2005, 05:12 PM

Civx, you should be banned from this site in my opinion, for declaring your intentions to rape someone's girlfriend. I've seen people banned for less.

You are indeed a weakminded person who can't stand the fact that other people might actually take enjoyment in something you don't.

I met someone like you once in person. He said some stupid thing about punching me in the mouth just like you said. I encouraged him to do so immediately. He never had the balls to actually do it. Are you as puny as that person?? You sure sound like it.

-TNC-

Mobeus Chronox

10-06-2005, 05:12 PM

Last I heard, group bases are among the things in CoV that are eventually to be added to CoH.

I've seen posts including one from statesman that indicate that subscribers would have to have COV to have group bases.

BalekFekete

10-06-2005, 05:13 PM

As a long time supporter and player of CoH, needless to say I'm tickled pink. I've had access to two other fairly promienent betas for MMOs-to-come, and yet CoH and now CoV have held my attention through them and beyond. The sensibility that NCSoft has shown and respect for its community has earned my loyalty, much in the same way many here admire Bioware, for example.

Let's also not forget that CoV will also add in 4 additional character slots to every server, for free. Base building, base raiding, open PvP zones...content around every corner.

My only quam will be the 'am I good...or am I evil' on any given evening. :D

B.

civx

10-06-2005, 05:20 PM

Thenetcase

10-06-2005, 06:16 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

-civx (forgot to sign my post so i can be cool like you)

Yes, that was so amusing... When you get out of elementary school and finish highschool and drag your drunken ass through college, then perhaps you will have a valuable contribution to society. And perhaps not. Perhaps you will still be a loser who bitches out anyone who doesn't agree with you.

-TNC-

Kefkataran

10-06-2005, 06:16 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

-civx (forgot to sign my post so i can be cool like you)

Making fun of your ridiculous faux attitude is trolling but this post isn't? If you say so.

Let's also not forget that CoV will also add in 4 additional character slots to every server, for free.

Didn't know about that one. That's a very nice bonus indeed.

civx

10-06-2005, 06:42 PM

Yes, that was so amusing... When you get out of elementary school and finish highschool and drag your drunken ass through college, then perhaps you will have a valuable contribution to society. And perhaps not. Perhaps you will still be a loser who bitches out anyone who doesn't agree with you.

-TNC-

And what's the deal with airline peanuts? I mean really!

-civx

civx

10-06-2005, 06:43 PM

Making fun of your ridiculous faux attitude is trolling by this post isn't? If you say so.

What did you just type.

Thenetcase

10-06-2005, 07:56 PM

What did you just type.

He said you were a moron and that people much smarter than you exist and that your opinion is basically worthless due to your imaturity and lack of understanding.

Does that help?

-TNC-

Magnanimous Gnome

10-06-2005, 08:13 PM

Civx should have been banned quite a while ago - I've seen him trolling and generally being a prick in several threads. The "raping" comment goes WAY to far. If he said that in real life, he would get he ass handed to him.

What did you just type.

He typed a non-trolling post in English, something you apparently do not understand how to do. Many you should shut-up and just observe for a while. You might learn how to act like a functioning member of society.

civx

10-06-2005, 08:24 PM

Civx should have been banned quite a while ago - I've seen him trolling and generally being a prick in several threads. The "raping" comment goes WAY to far. If he said that in real life, he would get he ass handed to him.

He typed a non-trolling post in English, something you apparently do not understand how to do. Many you should shut-up and just observe for a while. You might learn how to act like a functioning member of society.

Yes, on an internet forum.

civx

10-06-2005, 08:25 PM

He said you were a moron and that people much smarter than you exist and that your opinion is basically worthless due to your imaturity and lack of understanding.

Does that help?

-TNC-

-TNC-

-civx

Kefkataran

10-06-2005, 08:32 PM

Just ignore the guy. Either he'll go away or he'll keep being a douche, but it's not really worth getting too worked up about.

civx

10-06-2005, 08:33 PM

Just ignore the guy. Either he'll go away or he'll keep being a douche, but it's not really worth getting too worked up about.

I know, getting upset about someone on an internet forum is kind of dumb.

Thenetcase

10-06-2005, 09:37 PM

I know, getting upset about someone on an internet forum is kind of dumb.

Hmm.. root of the problem here? SOMEONE by the name of civx was personally SLANDERING someone over the fact that they like a game and a genre that he thinks is stupid. Now how 'dumb' is that?

You seriously need to stop making traps for yourself. You are ignorant.
I agree with the other guy about the rape comment. If you said that to me in person, you'd be wishing I'd just gone ahead and killed you.

-TNC-

Kefkataran

10-06-2005, 10:34 PM

I know, getting upset about someone on an internet forum is kind of dumb.

Basically.

Savok

10-06-2005, 11:15 PM

I go to sleep and miss all the fun

Kefkataran

10-07-2005, 12:12 AM

Savok, would you be upset if I said I missed you and meant it?

Talanvor

10-07-2005, 12:19 AM

Hrm, is there a way to put someone on an ignore list around here?

Anyway, this is pretty cool of Cryptic. I'll see how CoV pans out gameplay wise though, I don't think doing the same thing with bases and as an "evil" character isn't going to be a big enough of a departure to lure me back.

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed CoH, but I just don't have the time to justify a monthly fee.