XBox 360 3rd Party Screens

[bapenguin]

Gamecloud (http://www.gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=1762) has a bunch of screenshots up from 3rd Party XBox 360 titles like Dead Rising, Gun, Quake 4 and Oblvion.

http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/3603rdthumb.jpg

[Abednigo]

As was said in another article the other day, we're reaching the point where graphics aren't going to get much better. Those look great, but they look like new XBOX games. Nintendo seems to have that in perspective. They don't need a super powered, $400 machine to make games that look great (RE4 anyone?) I think in this next generation the battle will come down to what added features people want. Do you want a DVD/MP3/all-in-one media player built into your videogame console or just a videogame system? Then of course what games do you want to play? The graphics will be a secondary reason in deciding what system you want.

[Klade]

Oh the jaggies! the jaggies!

[Atorak]

Abednigo, I don't think we've seen anything yet. These are the first-generation of the next-generation titles.

Remember what original XBox & PS2 games looked like? It'll take awhile to squeeze out more juice from the system.

Plus, there are jaggies in every single video game on earth, even on the sickest PCs! We are looking at still images people! Who the hell walks through games nowadays and notices the jaggies? I got over that years ago....

*shrugs* :)

[Abednigo]

Abednigo, I don't think we've seen anything yet. These are the first-generation of the next-generation titles.

Remember what original XBox & PS2 games looked like? It'll take awhile to squeeze out more juice from the system.

That's very true. But the jump from first generation games on a console will go down as the years pass. From PS1 to PS2, for example, was a huge jump. PS2 to PS3 will most likely not be as dramatic.

[Rommel]

I think they look great, though they do have a very similiar look to them. Maybe because half the games of this generation are using Unreal Tech, and they are all trying to capture the feel of Half Life 2.

[carneconcarne]

rising dead looks hot

[Ernst_Jager]

For me what I am most looking forward to is the new Xbox live system. Multiplayer is where it is at for me. Any game with Co-Op play is good in my book. Adds some interaction with another person and doesn't really force players to play with others of the same skill level.

[The Iron Weasel]

I'm about to wet myself in anticipation over Dead Rising.

[Atorak]

I hear ya Abednigo, but people are generally complaining a bit about what these first couple of games MIGHT look like. First off, I'm sure most of them will look much better in person, except for the few early disappointments. Secondly, I still think there is a lot of room for improvement as developers become more familiar with the boundaries of the X360 platform.

Jaggies will eventually become a problem of the past, but I think it is pretty damn close now.

[bapenguin]

rising dead looks hot

I concur. I can't wait.

[bapenguin]

As was said in another article the other day, we're reaching the point where graphics aren't going to get much better. Those look great, but they look like new XBOX games. Nintendo seems to have that in perspective. They don't need a super powered, $400 machine to make games that look great (RE4 anyone?) I think in this next generation the battle will come down to what added features people want. Do you want a DVD/MP3/all-in-one media player built into your videogame console or just a videogame system? Then of course what games do you want to play? The graphics will be a secondary reason in deciding what system you want.

I think it's going to be more about what they do with those graphics. Look at the animation article from today, that kind of stuff is amazing. That's what I want to see this generation.

[Heretic Machine]

I'm of the opinion that screenshots are being WAY overused these days... It seems like a lot of gaming news now is just announcments of new screenshots of upcoming games. I mean really, how many Oblivion shots do we need?

[kathode]

I mean really, how many Oblivion shots do we need?
Honestly I think we've released less screenshots than just about any heavily anticipated game out there. I mean you see DUMPS of shots all the time on worthplaying.com - just scrolling down their news reveals "16 new shots", "25 screens" of this game or that game. I think we've got about 30 shots out there TOTAL. It's just that it gets reported all over the place I guess that makes you feel different.

Anyway, to answer your question - you need a lot more :)

[Heretic Machine]

Who's "we"...? o.o Do you work for Bethesda or somthing?

[Rirath]

Dang I can't wait to be playing that zombie game.

As for Nintendo and their lack of graphics, who really cares? Nintendo isn't getting anything "right". You don't even know what Nintendo has. It has a controller you're not even sure that's usable. I've heard this "graphics aren't going to get better" nonsense for so long now, it's probably in a Nintendo Power magazine circa 1990 somewhere.

I know it's cool to be anti-next gen right now, but for crying out loud, if you praise Nintendo's diversity so much then stop wanting every single game and every single console to be just like it. Nothing about these look like Xbox games. Not the lighting, not the textures, not the animations. A few games look like crud, but that describes every console out there.

You haven't even seen what difference it will make when developers have more memory to play with under the hood.
What exactly are you expecting it to do, make coffee? Some of us do want an evolution, not a "revolution".

[novicius]

Who's "we"...? o.o Do you work for Bethesda or somthing?
Heh. Yes, he does. :p

[Taco]

Once FSAA hit the performance sweet spot a couple years ago I stopped noticing jaggies.

On a television these jaggies won't be noticeable.

[KarmaGhost]

Once FSAA hit the performance sweet spot a couple years ago I stopped noticing jaggies.

On a television these jaggies won't be noticeable.They will be when people start playing them on crazy HD screens! If I ever get an Xbox 360, I'm going to be playing it on my computer monitor until I get enough cash to purchase a proper hi-def television set.

[thecrazyd]

Some of us do want an evolution, not a "revolution".
Thats the thing. There is no evolution with the other systems. It is more powerful version of the exact same thing. You will be playing the exact same games, with better graphics. The only thing that is evolving is the power. The goddamned controllers are exactly the same. If it wern't for Nintendo, this would be the only gen without a controller change. An evolution, I could buy in to, but that is not an option.

[Rirath]

Thats the thing. There is no evolution with the other systems. It is more powerful version of the exact same thing. You will be playing the exact same games, with better graphics. The only thing that is evolving is the power. The goddamned controllers are exactly the same.

Who CARES if the controllers are the same? They WORK. You want a change, they'll be wireless. There, fine, done. I use my Xbox controllers and PS2 controllers on the PC all the time because they're so well designed.

When was the last time you heard a PC user whine that the keyboard and mouse haven't changed? If something works, use it. More graphics power and more memory gives devs the freedom to do bigger and better things in their games. Games like Oblivion were simply not possible on the previous generation. You've seen some early shots of first gen titles, and you think you understand what it'll be doing in two years?

I know you're not, but I'm fine with "more of the same", in this case. Games this gen have been incredibly good for a change. Sure, there's a lot of worth nothing titles out there, but there's a heck of a lot of great ones too. I don't care less about the next Halo or GTA, but I sure do want to play the next Ninja Gaiden, or the next Elder Scrolls, or the next Unreal Tournament. I want to play these games because they're still good, and they're still fun. When they get old, there will be new series to take their place.

And I'm really sorry to inform you, but you'll be getting PLENTY of the same with Nintendo. New controller, same games. Nintendo hasn't made a decent original fanchise/series/IP in ages. It's simply going to be Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Whatever only this time, with a new controller. Same deal as the Nintendo DS. And you know what? I'll be there -- because I LIKE Mario/Metroid/Zelda.

Were you this upset when 8 bit NES turned to 16 bit SNES, or when the PS1 became the PS2? How about when the Gameboy became the Gameboy Pocket, then the Gameboy Color, then the Gameboy Advance? All great improvements in gaming that brought in some amazing new games. Last gen Xbox/PS2 may LOOK like first gen 360/PS3, but it's simply a matter of last gen titles being so dang well refined, and first gen titles being either swept over, or simply new to the hardware.

[thecrazyd]

Yeah, Nintendo uses the same IPs, but they change the gameplay tremendously. Compare Mario to Mario 2 to Mario 64 to Mario Sunshine to any of the various Mario sports games, and tell me that they are treading water. And standard gamepads work, but only in limited situations. They are fine for platformers, fighters, and turn-based RPGs, but show their limitations with shooters, RTS, and, I am sure, all the genres that will be created through the Revolution. So if Nintendo can create a controler with all the functionality of a gamepad and mouse combined, then fuck gamepads.

[Klade]

Plus, there are jaggies in every single video game on earth, even on the sickest PCs! We are looking at still images people! Who the hell walks through games nowadays and notices the jaggies? I got over that years ago....

*shrugs* :)

Heh show me a computer game made within the last 3 years that has half as many jaggies as these screen shots. I mean some of them are so bad they obscure the models.

And as someone said above these will be noticable on a HD tv but probably not on your regular tv.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

The goddamned controllers are exactly the same.

That's a BALD-FACED lie crazy! The controllers are TOTALLY different. The PS3 controller is shaped like a boomerang. A BOOMERANG!!! Totally awesome! The Xbox360 controller is jism-white and costs FIFTY FUCKING DOLLARS!! These changes are the best thing to happen to controllers since...well EVER!!


Games like Oblivion were simply not possible on the previous generation.


Wha? Name ONE feature/new gameplay element in Oblivion that wasn't possible before the Xbox360. No, bloom and other "pretty" graphical effects don't count. :p

Everything that we've heard about Oblivion has already been done in either Morrowind (in the size of the world, the scope, the play style) or in Gothic 2 (characters having schedules, etc.)

I'm not saying Oblivion is going to suck (I really hope it fixes the problems I had with Morrowind), but saying that it just wasn't possible before is a joke.

[Rirath]

Yeah, Nintendo uses the same IPs, but they change the gameplay tremendously. Compare Mario to Mario 2 to Mario 64 to Mario Sunshine to any of the various Mario sports games, and tell me that they are treading water.

There's plenty of sequels on the GC that don't change the gameplay, too. counting the GB/GBA/DS titles, and focusing on the GC, let's say Mario Kart Double Dash, Smash Bros Melee, Turok, F-Zero, Tony Hawk, Rogue Squardon 2, etc.

But you know, the funny thing is where we really differ... you consider changes like Mario Sunshine to be a good thing, while I completely don't. I hated that game, and I've always wanted a true sequel to Mario 64. In the same way, I've wanted a true sequel to Zelda: OoT, and will finally get it with Twilight Princess. I've wanted a true Star Fox sequel, not this "adventures" mess.

One of the reasons I love the GBA so much is because it has true sequels to old school games, without screwing with the formula. The GBA gave us Kirby as we knew him, a platform hero with better graphics and expanded gameplay. The DS gives us Kirby as a ball with a stylus. I personally see it as a waste. The exact reason why I look forward to Castlevania for the DS is because it doesn't mess with the formula.

Sometimes Nintendo takes risks and it pays off. Metroid to Metroid Prime was a great surprise. Many times however, and I contend almost /every/ time since the N64 and GBA SP, it fails. Though I own a GC and a DS, I consider both failures compared to the N64 and the GBA SP. I wish Nintendo would start focusing on the games again, and not on what silly things they can do to be "different".

(I'm really not sure why you brought up Mario 2, by the way. It wasn't even a Mario game, they just remade Doki Doki Panic and replaced the original characters with Mario characters. That's why it's like nothing else in the series.

More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doki_Doki_Panic)

[Rirath]

I'm not saying Oblivion is going to suck (I really hope it fixes the problems I had with Morrowind), but saying that it just wasn't possible before is a joke.

No joke. There's no way in heck you'd get those forests, all them NPCs, all that AI, and etc running on the Xbox or even PCs a few years ago. The developers themselves say "This wasn't possible before" in the videos. It's choking on their own demo system, much less any previous generation. It simply wouldn't have the memory to store all that data, the processor to keep it running, nor the video to display it.

Compare Obliv and Morrowind screens side by side. It's night and day. And once that game's out and running, Morrowind should look limited in scale as well. The AI and the physics are going to run circles around previous RPG games.

I'm guessing once the Unreal Engine 3 hits, folks will begin to see exactly what Next Gen means.

[thecrazyd]

There's plenty of sequels on the GC that don't change the gameplay, too. counting the GB/GBA/DS titles, and focusing on the GC, let's say Mario Kart Double Dash, Smash Bros Melee, Turok, F-Zero, Tony Hawk, Rogue Squardon 2, etc.
Third party games don't count, and if you cannot see the massive difference between Double Dash and MK64, then you are blind. While SSB:Melee I can agree with. It is the same thing in a much larger scope.

But you know, the funny thing is where we really differ... you consider changes like Mario Sunshine to be a good thing, while I completely don't. I hated that game, and I've always wanted a true sequel to Mario 64. In the same way, I've wanted a true sequel to Zelda: OoT, and will finally get it with Twilight Princess. I've wanted a true Star Fox sequel, not this "adventures" mess.

One of the reasons I love the GBA so much is because it has true sequels to old school games, without screwing with the formula. The GBA gave us Kirby as we knew him, a platform hero with better graphics and expanded gameplay. The DS gives us Kirby as a ball with a stylus. I personally see it as a waste. The exact reason why I look forward to Castlevania for the DS is because it doesn't mess with the formula.
Well, on that matter, I guess we have to agree to disagree. If you want to play the same game over and over again, well, more power to you. I don't really see the appeal.

Sometimes Nintendo takes risks and it pays off. Metroid to Metroid Prime was a great surprise. Many times however, and I contend almost /every/ time since the N64 and GBA SP, it fails. Though I own a GC and a DS, I consider both failures compared to the N64 and the GBA SP. I wish Nintendo would start focusing on the games again, and not on what silly things they can do to be "different".
Well, as long as when they are trying to be different they keep on making totally fucking awesome games and creating new and exciting ways to play, then I am game.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

No joke. There's no way in heck you'd get those forests, all them NPCs, all that AI, and etc running on the Xbox or even PCs a few years ago. The developers themselves say "This wasn't possible before" in the videos. It's choking on their own demo system, much less any previous generation. It simply wouldn't have the memory to store all that data, the processor to keep it running, nor the video to display it.

Compare Obliv and Morrowind screens side by side. It's night and day. And once that game's out and running, Morrowind should look limited in scale as well. The AI and the physics are going to run circles around previous RPG games.

I'm guessing once the Unreal Engine 3 hits, folks will begin to see exactly what Next Gen means.



A lot of that bandwidth choking (I'd say the majority by far) comes from better graphics, not anything actually "new". Again, I asked what was new outside of prettier effects and such. You mention AI, but I haven't seen anything yet to indicate that this game will have some amazing AI that we haven't seen before. Sure, the NPCs will go about schedules and such, but they did this in Gothic 2. Heck, I think they did it in the Ultima games as well. It may be better, but it still was done before. As for the physics, no comment there since I haven't heard anything about the game's physics system or what it is bringing to the table.

Also, most of the videos do not show many NPCs on screen at once, and when they do things choke down. I doubt you will see anymore characters on screen then you saw in Morrowind or Gothic 2.

Again, I'm not bashing the game on these merits - I have plenty of other reasons to doubt how good Oblivion will be (again my problems with the previous title.) I just don't see much in it that couldn't have been done before, albeit in a less shiny way.

[bapenguin]

Thats the thing. There is no evolution with the other systems. It is more powerful version of the exact same thing. You will be playing the exact same games, with better graphics. The only thing that is evolving is the power. The goddamned controllers are exactly the same. If it wern't for Nintendo, this would be the only gen without a controller change. An evolution, I could buy in to, but that is not an option.

Graphics are only part of the equation. Look at my post above, now comes better animation, ai, etc. It opens up a lot more possibilities. So nintendo invests a new control system, that's all well and good. But it stops there..what comes next? more powerful versions of the same thing that opens up possibilities in other areas. They are simply taking a step to the side instead of forward. The forward step will come next gen.

[thecrazyd]

Graphics are only part of the equation. Look at my post above, now comes better animation, ai, etc. It opens up a lot more possibilities. So nintendo invests a new control system, that's all well and good. But it stops there..what comes next? more powerful versions of the same thing that opens up possibilities in other areas. They are simply taking a step to the side instead of forward. The forward step will come next gen.
Well, I guess that makes you an optimist. Although, I realize I am just judging from the launch titles, so far I have seen nothing that indicates a step forward in anything but graphics. I do not think we ever got to the point last gen where ai was bottlenecked by the hardware. I never saw any slowdown because the CPU was tied up thinking for the characters on screen. I have never seen any real signifacant pushes for a decent ai last gen, so I cannot imagine it coming next gen. And animations? Subdivision of graphics. Makes no real difference.

[mister_slim]

Anyway, to answer your question - you need a lot more :)
No, we don't. We need videos. Which, of course, show that Oblivion's animation isn't tremendously improved. So I see your point.
There's plenty of sequels on the GC that don't change the gameplay, too. counting the GB/GBA/DS titles, and focusing on the GC, let's say Mario Kart Double Dash, Smash Bros Melee, Turok, F-Zero, Tony Hawk, Rogue Squardon 2, etc.
Double Dash has probably the best implemented co-op mode of any racing game ever. 4-player Grand Prix's are great fun, and people who have never played Mario Kart can still enjoy it. You obviously didn't play enough F-Zero to appreciate the changes. Smash Brothers I'll give you (though not overcomplicating the game is the point). I don't see how the third-party games speak towards Nintendo's evolution of franchises.

[Rirath]

If Nintendo made more first party games anymore, it'd be easier to speak to them.
You'll excuse me for not getting a list, but many of those were still Nintendo exclusive, or sequels of N64 titles.

It's not as if the 360 and PS3 games you guys are generally bashing for their supposed "sameness" are 1st party either.

[ElectricMonk]

i think a lot of the graphical innovations for this 360/ps3 generation will revolve around stuff you can only see in motion. HDR lighting, when done correctly, can be so good in motion you can never go back to non-hdr games apparently. also stuff like motion blur, depth of field, and post-processing effects really won't look all that interesting in a screenshot, or even a low-res movie.


That's very true. But the jump from first generation games on a console will go down as the years pass. From PS1 to PS2, for example, was a huge jump. PS2 to PS3 will most likely not be as dramatic.


everybody always says this but technology always manages to steamroll forward at an ever-accellerating pace.

[mister_slim]

If Nintendo made more first party games anymore, it'd be easier to speak to them.
You'll excuse me for not getting a list, but many of those were still Nintendo exclusive, or sequels of N64 titles.
You were the one arguing Nintendo games don't change. You can't really prove that point with games from Acclaim, Activision, or Lucasarts.