Bungie and Microsoft Differ on Decision to Pull E3 Reveal

[H.Bogard]

About a week ago, rumours were widespread about the folks at Bungie being quite displeased with Microsoft's decision not to reveal their new game amidst all the home-made movies and boasting speeches.

Microsoft's Don Matrick denied all this, claiming that the Bungie President had actually agreed with the decision to withdraw the unveiling from Microsoft's press event. As reported at Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=200278) :

Don Mattrick has denied that Bungie was angry about Microsoft's decision to pull the developer's new Halo game from the Xbox 360 E3 press conference.

"Sure they're disappointed. Any software creator would be disappointed," Mattrick, boss of the Xbox 360 business, told Eurogamer at E3 for an exclusive interview set to run later this week.
"Harold [Ryan, Bungie president] just laughed and he said, 'Boy, just a sign of growth inside the business, we agree'."
In an interesting development, Bungie's president revealed today that such was not the case at all. (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=200664)

Bungie president Harold Ryan has denied "laughing" when Xbox boss Don Mattrick told him that the studio's latest Halo product would not be shown at E3.

"Keeping things clean, I certainly didn't agree with the decision to delay our news until sometime after E3," Ryan told Eurogamer today. "Bungie is always concerned first and foremost with our fans. Whenever we are prevented from exceeding their positive expectations it is not a laughing matter."
Read more here. (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=200664)

Annd... go!

[Sandman]

Something tells me this is Microsoft giving hints to Bungie : "We don't need you anymore."

[cp#]

So.. new Halo confirmed?

[pseudopseudo]

Next week: Bungie announces Halo 4 for 360 and PS3, Microsoft shits pants. :D

[Tel Prydain]

Fight. Fight! FIGHT!

[51|RandoM]

Matrick is no Moore.

[Zeal]

lawsuit incoming

[Tel Prydain]

Matrick is no Moore.

*ZING!*
:D

[H.Bogard]

lawsuit incoming

Fittingly enough, I read that as lawlsuit while scrolling.

[Meatgortex]

Next week: Bungie announces Halo 4 for 360 and PS3, Microsoft shits pants. :D

MS owns the Halo IP not Bungie...

Now Bungie could announce a new Myth, Marathon or new IP for multiple consoles if they wanted to do that.

Feels like a silly powerplay on Matrick's part though.

[Devolution]

Whenever we are prevented from exceeding their positive expectations it is not a laughing matter."

exceeding their positive expectations it is not a laughing matter

positive expectations it is not a laughing matter

not a laughing matter

Choice words coming from Bungie of all devs.

[divinechaos]

So new Halo game confirmed then. That's all I took away from this thread.

[H.Bogard]

Choice words coming from Bungie of all devs.

Great. Now it's echoing in my head in a ghostly voice. Thanks a fucking lot!

[AgtFox]

MS owns the Halo IP not Bungie...

Now Bungie could announce a new Myth, Marathon or new IP for multiple consoles if they wanted to do that.

Feels like a silly powerplay on Matrick's part though.
You are incorrect that Bungie could announce a game for multiple consoles if they want. Microsoft has first refusal on ALL games coming out of Bungie, it was part of the separation deal. As I said in a thread about a week ago, I'm willing to bet Microsoft greenlights all ideas from Bungie just because they have the money to burn even if the game(s) never materialize. They have Bungie in a corner they are unable to get out of.

[Mal.Reynolds]

doesnt MS have basically first looks at whatever Bungie is making before they can go Multi
Platform.

thought that was part of the deal when they split... doesnt stop Sony from asking them to make game for them(a sony IP) just that any games Bungie comes up with MS has the choose to look at the

[Meatgortex]

AgtFox that makes sense didn't ever read the terms of the separation.

So Bungie could attempt to do a game, and if MS didn't want to publish it, then another publisher could pick it up for multiple consoles. Combining this with the fact that it's very unlikely that MS would choose to not publish the title, Bungie is effectively still single platform even if technically they could go multiplat.

[Variable Gear]

Um...can I play Halo DS now...? :confused:

[AgtFox]

AgtFox that makes sense didn't ever read the terms of the separation.

So Bungie could attempt to do a game, and if MS didn't want to publish it, then another publisher could pick it up for multiple consoles. Combining this with the fact that it's very unlikely that MS would choose to not publish the title, Bungie is effectively still single platform even if technically they could go multiplat.
We also need to look at the Bungie side of the separation. While giving up the first refusal card to Microsoft I also believe they have a "Blizzard"-like deal in that they control the development of their games with no outside influence from Microsoft should they choose to publish it. Granted, this flies against this particular story, but maybe Microsoft has control over when it is shown and how it is marketed...we really don't know.

The rumors that flew around when Bungie separated was that they did not like that Microsoft was overbearing while they were making the Halo games. I am going to guess if Bungie had its way Halo 2 and Halo 3 may have come out later than they did (Halo 2 is probably the most standout example here). Word also was that there would be a mass exodus from Bungie if they were not able to extract themselves and a new company would be created.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

MS owns the Halo IP not Bungie...

Now Bungie could announce a new Myth, Marathon or new IP for multiple consoles if they wanted to do that.

Feels like a silly powerplay on Matrick's part though.


Bungie does not own the Myth IP. I believe it belongs to Take Two. I doubt that we'll see another Myth game for a long time, if ever.

Color me disappointed in Bungie is indeed working on yet another Halo game. Enough with the fucking Halo already. :p

[Tel Prydain]

My understanding is that the Bungie/Microsoft split was primarily a financial arrangement.
The way it worked, Microsoft paid Bungie’s salaries and Bangie made the game they were told to make. When Halo went on to make more money then god, Bungie may have received some kind of a bonus, but they didn’t get any kind of percentage of the gross. Mind you, if Halo had bombed they wouldn’t have been impacted.
Under the new system, they are not paid salaries from Micosoft and if their game sucks they will loose any money invested – but if their next game is a Halo-sized hit they will make a hell of a lot more money. More risk, but more reward.

[Flatpicker]

We also need to look at the Bungie side of the separation. While giving up the first refusal card to Microsoft I also believe they have a "Blizzard"-like deal in that they control the development of their games with no outside influence from Microsoft should they choose to publish it. Granted, this flies against this particular story, but maybe Microsoft has control over when it is shown and how it is marketed...we really don't know.

The rumors that flew around when Bungie separated was that they did not like that Microsoft was overbearing while they were making the Halo games. I am going to guess if Bungie had its way Halo 2 and Halo 3 may have come out later than they did (Halo 2 is probably the most standout example here). Word also was that there would be a mass exodus from Bungie if they were not able to extract themselves and a new company would be created.

But if Microsoft has agreed to publish the title, do they pay for the marketing too? If so, they could pull any PR until they decide the time is right.

Otherwise, wasn't there a large exodus when Seropian left?

[Ozymandias]

You are incorrect that Bungie could announce a game for multiple consoles if they want. Microsoft has first refusal on ALL games coming out of Bungie, it was part of the separation deal. As I said in a thread about a week ago, I'm willing to bet Microsoft greenlights all ideas from Bungie just because they have the money to burn even if the game(s) never materialize. They have Bungie in a corner they are unable to get out of.

Something to think about... it's not like Bungie doesn't also get some benefit from being close to Microsoft. There's a strong relationship there from over the years. There will always be dust-ups... dunno why the drama over this one. <shrug>

[Flatpicker]

Something to think about... it's not like Bungie doesn't also get some benefit from being close to Microsoft. There's a strong relationship there from over the years. There will always be dust-ups... dunno why the drama over this one. <shrug>
Probably because the news lull post e3.
It get's boring waiting for the next big thing.:D

[Ozymandias]

Probably because the news lull post e3.
It get's boring waiting for the next big thing.:D

Probably true. <sigh>

Maybe Nintendo needs to buy Microsoft - that'll get people talking.

[oldjadedgamer]

Something to think about... it's not like Bungie doesn't also get some benefit from being close to Microsoft. There's a strong relationship there from over the years. There will always be dust-ups... dunno why the drama over this one. <shrug>

I don't get it either. There are two people involved in making the game, the publisher and the developer. If one isn't ready for what ever reason then so be it.

I think people just need something to talk about. I agree with the decision, announcing the game at E3 would have made it lose some of it's luster due to all the other major announcements they made.

Now that the dust has settled, there is a good reason to do it now. Just like Sony's rumored "major" exclusive to be announced soon.

[asimonk]

Who wants to be the SEKRIT BUNGIE ANNOUNCEMENT happens Aug 3rd?

[Flatpicker]

Probably true. <sigh>

Maybe Nintendo needs to buy Microsoft - that'll get people talking.

Well...
We have been wondering about that whole Avatar thing...

[Sandman]

Probably true. <sigh>

Maybe Nintendo needs to buy Microsoft - that'll get people talking.

Or maybe Microsoft needs to buy Capcom. ;);)

[Hexxagonal]

Did anyone notice in the last Bungie podcast it sounded like they are either building a new building or moving (probably the last part). This came up when they mentioned a new podcast room devoted just to that and the fact that there was no room in their current building.

Then on a previous podcast they were talking to an ex-GRAW multiplayer lead. Rumor after E3 was a squad game with ODST(?)

Two teams anyone?

[Talon-]

You are incorrect that Bungie could announce a game for multiple consoles if they want. Microsoft has first refusal on ALL games coming out of Bungie, it was part of the separation deal. As I said in a thread about a week ago, I'm willing to bet Microsoft greenlights all ideas from Bungie just because they have the money to burn even if the game(s) never materialize. They have Bungie in a corner they are unable to get out of.

Actually, the terms of that agreement have never been made public. The assumption has been that Microsoft has the right of first refusal, but we don't know for sure.

[Derella]

That was awkward...

[karak]

This isn't the first time nor the worst time this kind of thing has occured. I guess due to Halow people care more? It is within BOTH their best interests to put it behind them. If they are both professional they will. Other companies far less professional have worked through situations just like this in the past.

What we need is Mr. Tom Kalinske the American Samurai to come out of retirement and run MS. That's what we need. Kick some ass like the good old days.

[grognard66]

I think the Bungie crew is getting too big for their britches. They obviously know that they're legally obligated to use MS as their publisher and the publisher maintains all advertising responsibilities. As such, it was incredibly arrogant for Bungie to decide unilaterally to market their own game without at least consulting with their publisher first.

Bungie isn't the only developer MS publishes for and common sense dictates that MS will attempt to manage to flow of content for their upcoming releases to avoid cannibalizing attention from games soon to be released. It takes an incredible level of hubris not to understand that you can't dictate a publishers marketing efforts for their other games (and this would have impacted their marketing plans for THIS years titles).

[Mdot23]

I think the Bungie crew is getting too big for their britches. They obviously know that they're legally obligated to use MS as their publisher and the publisher maintains all advertising responsibilities. As such, it was incredibly arrogant for Bungie to decide unilaterally to market their own game without at least consulting with their publisher first.

The announcement was pulled at the last minute. It was in place and then changed. That's what Bungie is mad about. Having wasted resources to create something that MS intended to show, and then having it scrapped. I think they have every right to be angry.

[Cyndair]

The announcement was pulled at the last minute. It was in place and then changed. That's what Bungie is mad about. Having wasted resources to create something that MS intended to show, and then having it scrapped. I think they have every right to be angry.

Not to mention getting their rabid fans all hyped up and then letting them down. You don't dangle a carrot and then not let people have a bite. It would be like if Blizzard ran that D3 ice image teaser for 5 days and then at the end said "Sorry guys, can't show you yet."

[Goronmon]

It would be like if Blizzard ran that D3 ice image teaser for 5 days and then at the end said "Sorry guys, can't show you yet."Just for the record. That would have been awesome. :D

[fitbabits]

I suspect the reason the announcement was pulled was so that Microsoft could get as much traction from the FF XIII reveal as possible.

[Serapth]

The announcement was pulled at the last minute. It was in place and then changed. That's what Bungie is mad about. Having wasted resources to create something that MS intended to show, and then having it scrapped. I think they have every right to be angry.

You are right, privately.

In public, no, they are getting too big for their britches. Then again, it sounds like a rather premadonna bitch move when they seperated from MS in the first place.

1- sell your company to Microsoft for millions of dollars
2- MS makes millions off their investment and Bungie team is allowed to operate pretty hands off
3- people at Bungie feel gipped ( for what?!?!?! do they not get salaries and bonuses like you know, every other fucking worker in the world ) and threaten to take their ball and go home


MS caving on this one was just the first step.

[Wolvie]

Much ado about nothing. MS simply didn't need a Halo announcement since their show was stacked already. I'm sure Bungie isn't happy, but their time is coming, no biggie.

Also(and this is weird coming from me), I can wait for another Halo title. Seriously, I love the games, but I think a few years without a new Halo title might be a good thing.

[CoachCrazyMcScot]

If there is no announcement at PAX, and since there is no FanFest from Bungie this year, is there any clue as to what is next anyways?

Bungie has been quiet, but how long can they keep quiet?

[Devolution]

We also need to look at the Bungie side of the separation. While giving up the first refusal card to Microsoft I also believe they have a "Blizzard"-like deal in that they control the development of their games with no outside influence from Microsoft should they choose to publish it. Granted, this flies against this particular story, but maybe Microsoft has control over when it is shown and how it is marketed...we really don't know.

The rumors that flew around when Bungie separated was that they did not like that Microsoft was overbearing while they were making the Halo games. I am going to guess if Bungie had its way Halo 2 and Halo 3 may have come out later than they did (Halo 2 is probably the most standout example here). Word also was that there would be a mass exodus from Bungie if they were not able to extract themselves and a new company would be created.

Microsoft is basically a "distributor" at this point. So this means they also control leaks and PR. Apparently they put their foot down with this, which in my honest opinion is more of a bullshit vendetta move than anything else.

[DarkDaY]

I suspect the reason the announcement was pulled was so that Microsoft could get as much traction from the FF XIII reveal as possible.

My thoughts too, a new halo might have over shadowed the ff announcement. This way they can drop to bombs, let them both settle into their respective spots.

Don't drop all the bombs at once.

[51|RandoM]

Don't drop all the bombs at once.

fkVZnRQ1Ao0

[DarkDaY]

fkVZnRQ1Ao0

that was pretty dam cool, real world weapon, or just concept. Scary fun.

[beefyjr]

I actually think their conference could have used a Bungie-related announcement, because outside of FFXIII (which was big news), everything else there was already known or shit that most of us don't care about. That being said, I understand them not wanting to upstage Gears or FFXIII, which a Bungie-developed Halo-related game would have definitely done.

[Zanzibar]

The rumors that flew around when Bungie separated was that they did not like that Microsoft was overbearing while they were making the Halo games. I am going to guess if Bungie had its way Halo 2 and Halo 3 may have come out later than they did (Halo 2 is probably the most standout example here). Word also was that there would be a mass exodus from Bungie if they were not able to extract themselves and a new company would be created.
I agree, but what choice did Microsoft have with Halo 2? Halo 2 was released November 2004, while the X360 was forthcoming a mere year later. If Halo 2 had slid beyond Christmas 2004, they'd likely have to start over again for X360 launch in a year (which would likely have been a clusterfuck) or else Microsoft would delay the X360 release.

Three years is PLENTY of time to put together a AAA title on hardware you've already worked on before. I can't blame Microsoft for forcing Bungie to release Halo 2 on the timeline that works best for the WHOLE of the Games division.

[Talon-]

Bungie was talking about their next game right before Halo 2, and it wasn't Halo 3. I think it's fair to say that they didn't like the fact that a publisher was telling them what game to make.

[J Arcane]

We also need to look at the Bungie side of the separation. While giving up the first refusal card to Microsoft I also believe they have a "Blizzard"-like deal in that they control the development of their games with no outside influence from Microsoft should they choose to publish it. Granted, this flies against this particular story, but maybe Microsoft has control over when it is shown and how it is marketed...we really don't know.

The rumors that flew around when Bungie separated was that they did not like that Microsoft was overbearing while they were making the Halo games. I am going to guess if Bungie had its way Halo 2 and Halo 3 may have come out later than they did (Halo 2 is probably the most standout example here). Word also was that there would be a mass exodus from Bungie if they were not able to extract themselves and a new company would be created.
Or Halo 1 for that matter. MS has been pushing them for some time.

Most people don't realize that the Halo that was announced and shown off prior to the buy out, and the Halo that got shit out onto the Xbox 1 were pretty different games in terms of the gameplay and design. What had been a pretty open-world, sandboxy game, got turned into a glorified rail shooter.

It's been very obvious to me for sometime that MS has definitely not been a hands-off publisher with respect to Bungie.

[the soUL TRAder]

Seems pretty simple to me.

MS was holding an "ace", just in case their pressor was trumped by the comp. Once they didn't need it they held onto it.

Bungie felt as if they had disappointed fans when the reaction came down, so they threw MS under the bus.

But in the end, they are both probably very happy that they didn't need to announce this at E3. Especially Bungie, who still has had a bunch of buzz about their new game, even though they haven't annouced it yet.

[Tel Prydain]

I actually think their conference could have used a Bungie-related announcement, because outside of FFXIII (which was big news), everything else there was already known or shit that most of us don't care about. That being said, I understand them not wanting to upstage Gears or FFXIII, which a Bungie-developed Halo-related game would have definitely done.

I totally disagree - between the new dash, the exclusive Fallout 3 dlc and the actual gameplay demos (of games coming out this year), I think they did alright. I'd rather see new stuff from something I can buy this year, then pre-rendered trailers of something that may never come out, or be years away.

[Tel Prydain]

Most people don't realize that the Halo that was announced and shown off prior to the buy out, and the Halo that got shit out onto the Xbox 1 were pretty different games in terms of the gameplay and design. What had been a pretty open-world, sandboxy game, got turned into a glorified rail shooter.

If by 'a pretty open-world, sandboxy game', you mean RTS. :rolleyes:

[Serapth]

Or Halo 1 for that matter. MS has been pushing them for some time.

Most people don't realize that the Halo that was announced and shown off prior to the buy out, and the Halo that got shit out onto the Xbox 1 were pretty different games in terms of the gameplay and design. What had been a pretty open-world, sandboxy game, got turned into a glorified rail shooter.

It's been very obvious to me for sometime that MS has definitely not been a hands-off publisher with respect to Bungie.

Obviously not a big deal too, as before MS got involed, Bungie was a fringe developer mostly known by Macheads and a few RTS fans. Now they are one of the biggest names in gaming.