HD-DVD: Why it's better than Blu-Ray

[bapenguin]

I'll have to admit, I've been a long time Blu-Ray supporter. The higher capacity was the biggest turn on for me. It appears though, the Blu-Ray camp hasn't been quite honest, and even though they claim to have 50GB discs, in reality 25GB is still their cap. Meanwhile, HD-DVD has jumped ahead and sucessfully produced a 30 GB Disc (http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=68224&cat_id=581). This disc is supposed to be submitted to the DVD forum for approval on October 17th, possibly one of the reasons for the recent delay in a HD-DVD launch.

TomsHardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050927_190208.html) talks with Jordi Ribas from Microsoft, who sits on the DVD forum. Jordi comments on why Intel and Microsoft chose HD-DVD over Blu-Ray."Our decision is based mainly on where the formats are today," Ribas said, referring to Microsoft. "A year and a half ago, both format organizations had very similar goals, and to some extent, the story of Blu-ray was actually very powerful. It had higher capacity, it had what we would consider benefits at the time. But then as time went on, and we'd seen what's the reality of both formats today, and what were promises versus what's proven and what's real, that's when we decided to make the decision."

MS and Intel had a list of requirements for a disc to meet. Blu-Ray failed in 6 of those areas. This one is probably the biggest.First, and perhaps foremost, is the ability for a consumer to make authorized copies of a legally obtained disc, in order to store the content on a hard drive and stream it to devices around the house. Intel particularly wants this capability for its Viiv home entertainment platform, announced last month. "We think it's a great consumer win, and it's a great industry win, to be able to ensure that with good copy protection, you can have so much functionality for the user," Rivas told us. But when recently questioned about its support for these features, Ribas said, although Blu-ray had appeared supportive at one time, its current stance is now uncommitted.

The other thing I found amazing was that Blu-Ray didn't have hybrid disc support, thereby eliminating backwards compatiblity with older players.

I'm curious to see how the Blu-Ray group responds to those claims, has it been a lot of smoke and mirrors in the Sony camp? Or is Microsoft and Intel just trying to sell their newly found official format?

Kudos to The DigitalBits (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/) for the scoop.

[KarmaGhost]

The waiting game continues...

[Roc Ingersol]

Sony? Trying to push a massively consumer-unfriendly data format?
couldn't be...

[TheKeck]

[Totally off topic]So, when are we going to see part 3 of the mouse reviews, Bap?[/Totally off topic]

[AspectVoid]

Seriously, I'm not about to take Microsoft's opinion on Blu-Ray just like I'm not gonna take Sony's opinion on HD-DVD. Frankly, I'm starting to think that both of these formats are gonna flop majorly. Pretty much everyone I know doesn't care one bit about the new formats since an HDTV setup is still way too far out of our price-range.

As one of my friends pointed out to me earlier today, this is starting to feel like laserdisks all over again.

[NoName]

As one of my friends pointed out to me earlier today, this is starting to feel like laserdisks all over again.
You make that sound like laserdisks were bad or something :p

[NoName]

Apparently Toshiba and Sony are still "attempting" for a compromise. There's a good article up on 1up quoting the CEO of Toshiba. Anyone feel like making a news post out of it? I'm feeling tired and lazy :).

HD-DVD + Blu-Ray Still Possible (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3144209)

[bapenguin]

[Totally off topic]So, when are we going to see part 3 of the mouse reviews, Bap?[/Totally off topic]

I really hoped to have it up last week, but both Razer and Logitech are having supply issues with their latest and greatest mice. As soon as they send me one I'll begin working on the review. Both companies have told me, "soon"

[bapenguin]

Apparently Toshiba and Sony are still "attempting" for a compromise. There's a good article up on 1up quoting the CEO of Toshiba. Anyone feel like making a news post out of it? I'm feeling tired and lazy :).

HD-DVD + Blu-Ray Still Possible (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3144209)

I don't know, I think Sony all but gave up on this (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=a5cvnblnIwks).
We at Sony don't believe that a unified standard is possible,'' Sony President Ryoji Chubachi told reporters today in Tokyo. ``We will continue to push and persuade HD DVD supporters that Blu-ray is better. Ultimately the winner will be decided by the consumer.

[Mrbunchypants]

UMD anyone?

there are way to many formats out now. this will only confuse people.... And the more I think about it the more i'm thinking about sitting on the fence and letting the others fight over who is better. after the dust settels i'll pick the one that wins.
same goes for those new console.

[MStiles]

Well, it certainly wouldn't be the fist time Sony over-promised and under-delivered.

I'd like to get some response to these claims from the folks that are going to distribute content on them. Movie studios and the like.

Which format is gonna have the best porn? ;)

[MosBen]

To be clear MS only recently backed HD DVD. It's not like it's their format in the way Blueray is Sony's. If I'm remembering correctly, HD DVD belongs to Toshiba. I know we all get a hardcore dose of MS vs. Sony stuff because we're into games, but I think MS's interest in the format war was far smaller than we gamers might think. I'm sure there was some interest in seeing Sony fail, but both formats support MS's codecs.

[MosBen]

And yes, MStiles, I really really want an editorial by Ron Jeremy about which format he supports and why.

[bapenguin]

To be clear MS only recently backed HD DVD. It's not like it's their format in the way Blueray is Sony's. If I'm remembering correctly, HD DVD belongs to Toshiba. I know we all get a hardcore dose of MS vs. Sony stuff because we're into games, but I think MS's interest in the format war was far smaller than we gamers might think. I'm sure there was some interest in seeing Sony fail, but both formats support MS's codecs.

Right, the Toms article actually explains WHY MS/Intel chose HD-DVD over Blu-Ray.

[Dirty Harry]

great why doesnt this site just change its logo news with attitude to news that bashed sony?

[Leaving Hope]

I don't understand why so many people are so interested in Blue Ray; well--that's not true: they see a bigger storage capacity, and they're sold. The thing is, Blue Ray has some serious faults and disadvantages.

Maybe now that it's been revealed that Blue-Ray may not have the largest discs people will be open to truly considering the pros and cons of both. Size isn't everything--and I'm saying this as someone who uses up gigabytes of data per day.

Blue-Ray discs have a much, much thinner layer to protect against scratches. That means that one mistake and your precious data is gone. That means you're potentially buying movies multiple times; but, hey, why should the content producers care about that? When was the last time that you got a free replacement for that audio CD or DVD movie that you scratched?

Blue-Ray discs are more expensive to produce, which means YOU, the consumer, will end up paying more.

Blue-Ray players may have build in protection to protect against modifications. Yes, you bought that player. You paid for it, and it sits in your house. But if you mod it to play those other region discs that your buddy in Japan mailed you, forget it. Whether it will disable your player until you get it maintenanced or simply fix itself to undo your changes is uncertain, but do you really want to lose power over YOUR devices? What happens when you mod your fancy new Blu-Ray player to watch the imported copy of "Ecchi Shiyou" that you imported, only to find out that your player is now worthless.

I'm pretty pissed that Microsoft decided to exclude HD-DVD players in the 360. But then, maybe they're right about something: HD-DVD and Blu-Ray could be the laserdiscs of this generation.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Holographic Video Discs (HVD). They store a tremendous amount of space, and don't need to spin like today's discs do. Wake me from cryostasis when its here.

[Goronmon]

And the more I think about it the more i'm thinking about sitting on the fence and letting the others fight over who is better. after the dust settels i'll pick the one that wins.
Yeah, at this point I can see myself doing the same exact thing. Will all of the DVDs I have, I'm not exactly pumped about buying them all over again in HD.

[Goronmon]

great why doesnt this site just change its logo news with attitude to news that bashed sony?
If you hate the newsposts so much, why bother reading them? ;)

[Zeal]

I never expected Blu-Ray to take off. HD-DVD is the most logical progression.

Blu-Ray is just Sony trying to control the medium, as always.

[Borys]

I'm pretty sure Sony could give you 6 reasons why Blu-Ray is better than HD-DVD but what would it change? You have already set your mind in stone. Microsoft says HD-DVD is better... well no shit ?!?!?

[Demo_Boy]

I'm behind the media format that the Revolution supports.

[TheBrainKills]

Yeah, at this point I can see myself doing the same exact thing. Will all of the DVDs I have, I'm not exactly pumped about buying them all over again in HD.


Why would you do that? You can still play your DVD's, you would just buy the HD ones for the new releases. Plus I think I read that HDTV sets are selling up to 30% now and it is growing rapidly.
I hardly ever go to the movies anymore since widescreen DVD's have been released. I can't wait till the true HD format is here in force, unless you've owned an HD set with an HD input you would'nt understand.

[Goronmon]

I'm pretty sure Sony could give you 6 reasons why Blu-Ray is better than HD-DVD but what would it change? You have already set your mind in stone. Microsoft says HD-DVD is better... well no shit ?!?!?
I'm not sure of your point here. HD-DVD isn't a Microsoft product. MS had to chose between HD-DVD and BR. I'd hope that they chose they format they thought was better.

[Goronmon]

Why would you do that? You can still play your DVD's, you would just buy the HD ones for the new releases. Plus I think I read that HDTV sets are selling up to 30% now and it is growing rapidly.
I hardly ever go to the movies anymore since widescreen DVD's have been released. I can't wait till the true HD format is here in force, unless you've owned an HD set with an HD input you would'nt understand.
Why would I buy them? Because HD is better. My point is that I would rather wait before investing my money into a format until either one has proven to be the superior. Or at least the one that isn't going to die out in a couple years.

[bapenguin]

I'm not sure of your point here. HD-DVD isn't a Microsoft product. MS had to chose between HD-DVD and BR. I'd hope that they chose they format they thought was better.

And remember, this was pretty much a joint decision with Intel. If you look above, someone posted Blu-Ray's responses. Basically, they just say these are lies...or that they might support the feature in the future.

I'm still pulling for Blu-Ray for the PC....25GB on a single layer? 50GB on a double. W00t.

[Simple]

The problem I'm seeing here is the "APPROVED copies" part about HD-DVD. I like to back up my discs and actively do so. Note: I said "backup" and not "make copies for others."

[T-Dub]

As a long time supporter of blue-ray i'm starting to come around to HD-DVD as well. There was a good article on slashdot (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/27/1245238&tid=129) yesterday about this and what they have been saying about the DRM & cost for blue-ray has really scared me away from it. As far as backwards compatbility goes that is because of the blue "laser". HD-DVD simply uses the same "laser" as CD & DVD but with a better compression format making them inherently backwards compatible. Blue-Ray players would need to have 2 "lasers" inside to make them backwards compatible which would significantly increase production costs.

[Dirty Harry]

If you hate the newsposts so much, why bother reading them? ;)
cant exactly rip my eyeballs out can i?, nor am i going to close my eyes when i read the main page.

[Kamalot]

Blue-Ray players would need to have 2 "lasers" inside to make them backwards compatible which would significantly increase production costs.And be another point of failure.

I've been on the fence for a long time, thinking the space advantage of Bluray discs would be enough to tip most of us over to the blu side. After reading these great atricles about the pros/cons of each, and looking at Sony's history of locked-down formats, I am now walking firmly away from Bluray discs forever.

[Mrbunchypants]

One thing that is going for sony is that the ps3 will have bluray support. this could.... help them. as they will have a market for the bluray movies.
And i also see that hddvd has been delayed. this also helps sony.

Still like that fence. with all the things coming out later this year and next year i just don't have the money to be buying a format thats not going to have staying power. plus An HDtv really is not something i can spend money on just so my games/movies look better. Going to stick with my old tv for a few more years.

Some thing else to think about is that movie rental places still have casset tape next to dvd's. I can't See BlockBuster just droping dvds or cassets and switching to HDdvds or blurays. They are the big buyers when it comes to movie. If there not going to carrie them nither format will go very far.

[Babbster]

And i also see that hddvd has been delayed. this also helps sony.

HD-DVD has been delayed for the US until next year and they are still hoping to get it on shelves in Japan this year. The PS3 (the first Blu-Ray device) isn't going to be anywhere until next year. That factor is a wash.

plus An HDtv really is not something i can spend money on just so my games/movies look better. Going to stick with my old tv for a few more years.

That's understandable, though for the people complaining about HDTV prices I would note that you can get an HDTV-ready set for about the same price as a "fully loaded" Xbox 360. It's not going to have the same resolution as a set purchased for $1,000, or even one purchased for $600, but it'll take the signals and look better than NTSC. It won't be more than two years before every new 20"+ set is HDTV-ready.

Some thing else to think about is that movie rental places still have casset tape next to dvd's. I can't See BlockBuster just droping dvds or cassets and switching to HDdvds or blurays. They are the big buyers when it comes to movie. If there not going to carrie them nither format will go very far.

This is exactly where hybrid discs come in. If a disc can be played in both a regular DVD player and the new-format player, places like Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, etc. can continue purchasing their new releases at the same rate. There's an investment in older movies that will have to be made at some point but you can bet they'll be getting sweetheart deals from the studios - especially for the first two to three years - to change over their stock at low, low prices. It's also worth noting that one early, exclusive deal with one or more of the rental giants could kill the opposing format - whichever format has the best hybrid selection might have the advantage there.

The hybrid discs make buying HD (whichever format) movies no-brainers unless the studios are foolish and try to overprice the discs. Even if you decide to wait for inexpensive combo players (Samsung already plans to sell HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo players), you can buy movies in hybrid format, still getting immediate value while being ready for a new A/V setup. If the studios and manufacturers play this right, there's no chance of a laserdisc-type debacle.

[Kelegacy]

I'm not sure of your point here. HD-DVD isn't a Microsoft product. MS had to chose between HD-DVD and BR. I'd hope that they chose they format they thought was better.

Hardly. This also has something to do with the fact that Sony created Blu-Ray. They chose HD-DVD not because it's better, but because they don't want to be involved with Sony.

[bapenguin]

Hardly. This also has something to do with the fact that Sony created Blu-Ray. They chose HD-DVD not because it's better, but because they don't want to be involved with Sony.

Except they are involved with Sony. VC9 is on the Blu-Ray disc. They are getting their cut per disc either way.

[MosBen]

Yeah, both MS and Sony are bigger than their console businesses

[Achilles]

Hardly. This also has something to do with the fact that Sony created Blu-Ray. They chose HD-DVD not because it's better, but because they don't want to be involved with Sony.MS works closely with Sony on any number of things. They order hundreds of TVs from Sony, monitors, etc. The only rivalry that exists between the two companies is between their two game divisions. I believe you can even get a Sony media center PC. And Sony's line of home PCs run windows.

[mister_slim]

As an Apple user, my decision has been made for me.

[bjornbarspingvinen]

if anything Sony is the one who should be considered most biased in this, Blu-ray support is by creators and sony owned studios. MS and Intel has not been creating the HD-DVD format.

[Azrikam]

I said it before, and I believe it. It's way too early for mass-adoption of a new DVD format. It'll be pushed hard by the producers, and it'll be relegated to specialty shops and the niche market. It'll be laserdisc all over again. Nothing wrong with laserdiscs, but if the companies involved think they are in for another consumer bonanza like they had with DVD, they are in for a rude awakening.