id Software Lawsuit Details

[Evil Avatar]

A subscriber only story (http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112785063771153565,00.html?mod=technology_mai n_whats_news) on the Wall Street Journal website has word that id Software co-founder Adrian Carmack has filed a lawsuit (http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10819116) against id Software in attempt to void his employment contract after having been fired from id Software in a squabble over company shares.

Adrian Carmack claims the decision not to sell the company was part of an effort to force him to sell his shares back at a fraction of what he would have made in a sale to Activision. Under terms of a contract he has asked the court to void, Mr. Carmack would have to sell his 41% stake in the company for $11 million, below the $40 million he might have reaped from Activision.

In a filing earlier this month, he claims the other owners fired him after he refused an offer to be bought out for $20 million. The Activision offer was revealed by a filing by Mr. Carmack seeking to have his employment contract declared invalid. He contends Id's other owners rejected the Activision offer so they could acquire his shares as a price below what they might later fetch.Thanks, Shacknews (http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=10819116).

[Taco]

I missed his firing, interesting.

[Evil Avatar]

Next on Lifestyles if the Rich and Whiny...

I wonder if this spells the end of the company? It seems obvious from this story that they intend to sell their only two franchises out to Activision, who will just hire them out to 3rd rate companys to spin off endless sequels - and I think DOOM 3 proved that they don't have it in them to make a good game any more anyway.

Who does that leave as king of the first person shooter? It certainly isn't Epic... they make a nice engine but can't seem to break away from the fairly bland Unreal license.

[DeadPixel]

That guy has been at ID software for a looooooooong time, just shows you how greed can break friendships that originally brought this team together. In Romero's case I can see it the guy is a loser, but I thought Adrian was a respected team member.

[Klade]

Just saw the last name of Carmack and not the first.. thought some very bad things were going down... instead only moderatly bad.

Wonder what this is all about anyway..

[Blade]

So who's still left from the original team? I think just JC, unless Hollenshead is still around.

[Morrolan]

I think DOOM 3 proved that they don't have it in them to make a good game any more anyway.
They need to re-hire Romero. ;) And I'm only half-kidding.

[ldi222]

Id hasnt made a great single player experience since Romero left (edit: wow I posted this at the same time as the above poster). As much as he hasnt lived up to his ambitions since there is no denying it was the Romero, John Carmack duo that made Id great (granted they were still great after his departure but only because of the engines which was half the equation). As far as who is left as the King of FPS, its pretty much been stated that this next engine will be Carmack's last and they are really becoming nothing more than licensed tech which Unreal has already taken the spotlight away from.

King of the FPS? Its simple really... Bungie.

(oh the irony, when I was playing Doom, Marathon was only an interesting Mac 3d clone.)

most edited post ever...

[thecrazyd]

King of the FPS? Its simple really... Bungie.
HAHAHAHA... seriously though. Valve.

[earthworm48]

Was that id software art style all due to him? (Like in the manuals) on wikipedia it says he went this year, but I didn't hear anything until now.

[ldi222]

Valve is an arguable answer but I thought HL2 was mediocre at best and the promised multiplayer is hollow.

[thecrazyd]

Valve is an arguable answer but I thought HL2 was mediocre at best and the promised multiplayer is hollow.
Substitue HL2 for Halo 2, and multiplayer for singleplayer (and to a lesser extent, multiplayer) and I concur.

[Klade]

I thought HL2 was great. But then again I'm not playing multi and I never expected to.

Still I've gotten more replay value out of HL2 then any other singleplayer game. I would give them the FPS crown without flinching.

[ldi222]

Well, I guess it depends on how you would define "king" of FPS I suppose. It would suggest sales revenues and number of active online players would constitute at least a part of that equation. Not to mention popular culture influence on a level not seen since well... Doom.

[thecrazyd]

Damn you EA for creating yet another Halo 2 vs HL2 thread!

Although there are many faults with ldi222's last argument, I refuse to continue this retarded debate that I have argued many times in the past.

[ldi222]

The funny thing is I knew as soon as I said Bungie the forum would explode. I really believe this is about PC insecurity as consoles continue to "steamroll" titles to the back of the store. I would think it quite reasonable that any objective analysis would at least put Bungie in the running for this perceived crown without the predicatable knee jerk valve reaction. I do agree with the above poster though that this debate is mentally handicapped.

[Abash Alarmist]

I think it should be considered Epic...They have shown time and time again that they have the ability to create quality shooters, save UT2003. They have created quality engines, quality games, and quality support for 3rd party individuals who are more than willing to create amazing games around their own amazing technology.

Also, with Gears of War coming out later this year/early next year, you can bet your ass that they will once again be considered one of the top developers for FPSes...

[Genital Eclipse]

Why do I read these god damn forums?

[Demize99]

The problem is, CS/HL/DoD/CoD/Bia/UT/Halo/BF are all subtly different play styles. Battlefield would be my choice, but well... I'm a biased modder and fan. The thing we should all really agree on is that it ROCKS that there's room for all of those sweet games in the market.

[Evil Avatar]

I really believe this is about PC insecurity as consoles continue to "steamroll" titles to the back of the store.

Steamroll? My local Gamestop has totally dumped PC gaming. The whole PC games section is one shelf that had a total of about 20 game boxes on it - most of them The Sims or The Sims 2 products.

For all intents and purposes, they don't have a PC game section any more.

[Evil Avatar]

Why do I read these god damn forums?

I sent you a big check. Did you spend all of it in one place?

[H.Bogard]

Who does that leave as king of the first person shooter? It certainly isn't Epic... they make a nice engine but can't seem to break away from the fairly bland Unreal license.


you know damn well who! a certain game ive noted you keep bashing on...

King of the FPS? Its simple really... Bungie.

AAAAAAHAhahHAahaahahahahha.........oh wait..........youre not kidding?
seriously though, go knock on bungie`s doors and ask them , they`d scream VALVe

[kokyunage]

This all probably dates back to the John Carmack ultimatum of "we're working on doom3 or I quit." I wouldn’t be surprised if power struggles occurred during the entire development of Doom 3. However, I think this will benefit id software, not destroy it. It seems that under Todd id software has been more productive, at least using it’s force & name brand in a better capacity: two sourced out games (Quake4 & Quakewars), a secret in development game, and a freaking movie. I don’t expect the downfall of id software anytime soon.

And Adrians complaint smells of whining. It’s like if I own stock in Company X. And I sue all the stock holders for not accepting a bid from Company Y. Yes, it’s lost revenue for me, but under no circumstances are the rest of stockholders obligated or liable for that. That comes under terms of stock ownership: majority rule. The same thing applies when you are an owner of the company. You are bound by the articles of incorporation and the bylaws. Just because they don’t favor me doesn’t mean jack shit. He doesn’t even have a majority stake.

[WangoTango]

That's it. The end is near.

[MosBen]

You know what, personally I think fanboy squibilling in this case is completely missing the point. We may differ in opinion about who holds the FPS crown, but we seem to all agree that it isn't id, which is a pretty big statement in itself given their history.

As much as we've all shared in Romero's fall, it was when he was with id that they produced their best and most inovated stuff. Say what you will, but the only levels of Quake that I enjoyed after I got over the graphics were done by Romero.

[Wyrm]

I like competition. When it goes on the right way, it creates a shit load of great games. Dont bitch about who's better. Embrace the fact that we have so many options that are always vying to become the better FPS, and the fact that games become better because of this.

[lurker4hire]

And Adrians complaint smells of whining. It’s like if I own stock in Company X. And I sue all the stock holders for not accepting a bid from Company Y. Yes, it’s lost revenue for me, but under no circumstances are the rest of stockholders obligated or liable for that. That comes under terms of stock ownership: majority rule. The same thing applies when you are an owner of the company. You are bound by the articles of incorporation and the bylaws. Just because they don’t favor me doesn’t mean jack shit. He doesn’t even have a majority stake.
He's obviously decided to completely wash his hands of the company, and wants to sell his (not majority, but nonetheless large) stake in the company to the highest bidder. Unfortunately he's bound under contract to sell to the current owners, so he's looking for a way to get out of the contract, nothing more, nothing less I think. IANAL etc, but I'm pretty sure this kinda squabble is pretty common in tons of different businesses.

Is it fair for him to do this? Who knows, who cares? This is what happens when office politics involves large sums of cash. Call me when id makes a fun game again....

l4h

[Montgomery_Python]

He's obviously decided to completely wash his hands of the company, and wants to sell his (not majority, but nonetheless large) stake in the company to the highest bidder. Unfortunately he's bound under contract to sell to the current owners, so he's looking for a way to get out of the contract, nothing more, nothing less I think. IANAL etc, but I'm pretty sure this kinda squabble is pretty common in tons of different businesses.

Is it fair for him to do this? Who knows, who cares? This is what happens when office politics involves large sums of cash. Call me when id makes a fun game again....

l4h

The King? 3D Realms.

He has many worthy princes beneath him however. ;)

[Maskatron]

FPS is a pretty tired genre - period.

[MosBen]

FPS may be a tired genre, but First Person is merely a perspective. Developers may have ground the Shooter genre into the ground, but a perspective is never tired, just needing new gameplay. The only problem with FPS in general is that "rules" for the genre have been established that need to be innovated on.

[Dirty Harry]

The King? 3D Realms.

He has many worthy princes beneath him however. ;)
Yeahh for some reason i agree, 3drealms, then valve and then epic.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I also think that the first person SHOOTER genre is very tired, though I see a lot of great uses of the system in other areas - such as RPGs and action adventures like Metroid Prime.

I would have crowned Valve king after Half-Life, since it was the first FPS that I actually enjoyed, and then later Monolith for NOLF. But really, Valve takes too long to actually make titles to be considered king of a genre, at least IMHO.

The king of turning a fairly mediocre game into a huge success in the engine world obviously goes to Epic.

[Wonka]

I think that Activision is the greatest irony in the game business. It was founded by developers who were fed up with Atari, and bloomed under their inspiration. But in time it has become twisted into the kind of publisher that you are reading about here. A large clueless corporate entity that would be every bit as bad as EA if only they were not also incompetant...

[Maskatron]

FPS may be a tired genre, but First Person is merely a perspective. Developers may have ground the Shooter genre into the ground, but a perspective is never tired, just needing new gameplay. The only problem with FPS in general is that "rules" for the genre have been established that need to be innovated on.


I guess I should have been more precise - I meant FPS shooters, and primarly scripted, single player ones.

[mister_slim]

I think that Activision is the greatest irony in the game business. It was founded by developers who were fed up with Atari, and bloomed under their inspiration. But in time it has become twisted into the kind of publisher that you are reading about here. A large clueless corporate entity that would be every bit as bad as EA if only they were not also incompetant...
You know what's ironic? If I remember correctly, EA and the Medal of Honor guys had a dispute, and most of the team left and formed Infinity Ward and made Call of Duty. And now Activision has gone and screwed the Call of Duty: Finest Hour devs, Spark.

[Mobeus Chronox]

Steamroll? My local Gamestop has totally dumped PC gaming. The whole PC games section is one shelf that had a total of about 20 game boxes on it - most of them The Sims or The Sims 2 products.

For all intents and purposes, they don't have a PC game section any more.

I think thats standard for all GameStop stores :/ Though my local gamestop dosen't have quite so many TheSims games and knock offs on its one lonely three shelf display but there are precious few PC games. If I want the best prices on PC games and a better selection I have to look at retail giants.

[alienchild]

Simple, Crytek.

[Liquidize105]

Too many dev houses do FPS, so no king.

[TrackZero]

Steamroll? My local Gamestop has totally dumped PC gaming. The whole PC games section is one shelf that had a total of about 20 game boxes on it - most of them The Sims or The Sims 2 products.

For all intents and purposes, they don't have a PC game section any more.

Thankfully my local EB still has a nice sized PC games section at the back of the store.

[TrackZero]

Simple, Crytek.

No kidding, to be fair, FarCry has had some of the newest map and gameplay changes I've seen in awhile for FPS. Though the weapons are still by the book.

[steve]

Being a big fan of id myself, but honestly, hasnt their "crown of shooters" been taken away months ago by Epic (engine, marketshare), Crytek (engine, gameplay), Valve (gameplay)?

At least until I see some new stuff Carmack is supposedly working on.

[Taco]

1: Valve
2: Epic
81: Bungie

Crytek can't crack the list yet. To new. See Croteam for a possibility of their future. Hopefully not.

[Xerxes]

Also, with Gears of War coming out later this year/early next year, you can bet your ass that they will once again be considered one of the top developers for FPSes...

GoW is not actually a FPS if i'm not mistaken...

[XxSATANxX]

105 million? Christ, that might have seemed low BEFORE Doom 3. id has had plenty of chances to sell. I think Bill Gates was sniffing around id and they told him get lost. As a biz the stock is a bit down for now. Clearly, the game did well but the reviews were less then stellar and Gamers don't even remember the first DOOM. The engine sales have lagged as the entire game world has jumped on the Unreal 3 engine. I think Adrian will get paid off and go away.

These things run in cycles right now id is in a low cycle. In the game world that just means your one game away from turning it all around!

[XxSATANxX]

From WJS:

Last year, id Software earned $10.5 million on revenues of $30.5 million

Holy crap that seems low!

[Wonka]

Their gonna need that 10 million dollars to just complete their "next game to turn it all around" too. The game industry is a nasty dangerous place filled with large publisher-sized predators.

[51|RandoM]

Their hasn't been a king of the FPS genre for awhile. If I had to pick one of the big players, the obvious answer is Valve. Half-life, half-life 2, and their mods dominate FPS gaming

The real players are those studios making games around the big guys 'tech demos'.

Think Raven, think Gray Matter, etc.

On the id thing, I have a pretty hard time understanding somebody who thinks 20 million isn't enough money. I guess he owes it to his children to get as much as possible, but still?

20 million for fuck's sake. Is there anybody out there who can't take 20 million and live off the investment payoffs quite comfortably for the rest of their life? I'd be out west near a good ski mountain in about 10 seconds flat, living a life of leisure.

[PacerDawn]

On the id thing, I have a pretty hard time understanding somebody who thinks 20 million isn't enough money. I guess he owes it to his children to get as much as possible, but still?
So, you are saying that, if you and another person had a joint venture that you both put equal effort into and your partner could sell it for 100 million dollars, you would be happy to accept just 20 million and let him pocket the rest?

[51|RandoM]

So, you are saying that, if you and another person had a joint venture that you both put equal effort into and your partner could sell it for 100 million dollars, you would be happy to accept just 20 million and let him pocket the rest?

If that was the paper I signed, yes.

This used to be a country of problem solvers. Now our most common answer is litigation. Frankly, it just gets old.

[ldi222]

1: Valve
2: Epic
81: Bungie

HALO2 6.3 Million Sold as of June 2005

The Halo 2 online population is humongous – nearly 500,000 unique people play Halo 2 every day accounting for well over 1 million recorded matches.

There are now 200 Live-enabled titles available world-wide including Halo 2 which has so far logged over 61 million sessions on the game, with an average session lasting nearly 92 minutes – the approximate length of a feature film.

Total Number of Halo 2 Clans: 387,793

It's good to be King.

[Taco]

Our criteria is different.

Halo sucks.
Halo 2 sucks
Bungie sucks at FPS games

All the sheep in the world will not change my opinion.

[Abash Alarmist]

Just because mass amounts of people play/buy the game does not make it the best. Look at The Sims, eh? Besides, the demographics of most of the people who play Halo 2 are probably 13-18 year olds with nothing else better to do and also aren't old/mature enough to be able to savor the best games.

Edit:

Hmm, yeah, you are right Xerxes. Its a 3rd person shoot, my bad...Either way, it will kick ass....But you want to know what I really want? Max Payne 3.

[ldi222]

Besides, the demographics of most of the people who play Halo 2 are probably 13-18 year olds with nothing else better to do and also aren't old/mature enough to be able to savor the best games.

Now there is a statistic pulled out of thin air.

[Xerxes]

Now there is a statistic pulled out of thin air.

93% of the statistics on EvAv are pulled out of thin air.

[mister_slim]

HALO2 6.3 Million Sold as of June 2005

Halo 2 still hasn't sold out their initial shipment?