Xbox 360 Drops to $299 at Target and Other Stores

[Disgustipated]

According to Engadget, Target has decided the Xbox 360's price point is down to $299 (http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/11/xbox-360-pro-hits-299-in-target-stores/)... a bit suspicious considering E3 is just around the corner.

We're not exactly sure what kind of behind-the-scenes relationship Target has with Microsoft, but this marks the third time by our count in which it has revealed something pretty important about the Xbox 360 before Redmond told anyone else (on the record, that is). Whatever the case, the Xbox 360 Pro is being let go at Target's brick-and-mortar locations (read: not online, so you'll actually have to slip some shorts on and leave the basement) for $299.99. Guess that confirms the US price drop, huh?

I saw this a day or two ago and forgot about it. Full credit goes to Xerxes for bringing it up.

[jeffbax]

http://seoblackhat.com/images/its-a-trap-admiral-akbar.jpg

65nm in august!

[BabyJesus]

Target=bunch of dummies

[oldjadedgamer]

The price cut is a guarantee right now. Just go to any place that price matches so you can get the $50 bucks back next week.

[Xerxes]

Target=bunch of dummies

How so? They just went into the future and brought you news of a price break. :D

Now if you are over at Microsoft, yeah they are a bunch of dummies.

[AgtFox]

As I said a while ago when the ads started leaking, Microsoft should have just announced it and not sat on their hands and wait to announce it at E3 (or before since the ads hit Sunday).

[bean19]

I've said it before when this was announced several weeks ago, but I don't think this is enough of a drop to stimulate sales. To really get people to go out and buy an Xbox 360, they have to reach mass-market.

They don't want to do this because the Nintendo Wii is still selling for $250 and they want consumers to realize that the Xbox 360 is more advanced hardware than the Nintendo Wii, but it doesn't look like Nintendo is going to be lowering the price on their perpetually sold out insanely popular console anytime soon.

In addition to needing to get down to mass market prices to penetrate the mass market audience, they need a price that is competitive with the PS3. While gamers are interested in the Xbox 360 because it has a superior game library (personal mileage may vary, but it has the most platinum titles, nearly double the number of titles on both the other systems that scored an 80% metacritic rating or higher, and the most overall titles), if you are someone who just wants a next-gen console to play Grand Theft Auto IV, Madden, and a handful of other titles, then why not spend and extra $100 and get the PS3 that can also play Blu-Ray movies. For the most part, gamers have already picked up an Xbox 360 because of the game library too. Don't get me wrong, the Xbox 360's superior game library and Live are not completely unknown to the masses because a lot of people make purchases based off wanting to play the games or the system they played at a friend's house. My own brother bought an Xbox 360 because Live allows us to play co-op games together, but he mostly remains a devout PC gamer. However, if it wasn't for me, he would have gotten a PS3 because an extra $100 isn't that much if you like HD movies.

It is a step in the right direction, and I know that they position the Arcade model for mass-market audiences, but I think they are going to have to abandon their strategy of being priced more than the Wii eventually, and it is possible that it might help them. What if they lowered the price this Fall to $250 and did an ad campaign that showed off the difference in graphics, available titles, and AVAILABILITY. Make the Wii look like a really poor value while showing off the great value of the Xbox 360.

For some reason, the marketing folks are avoiding taking on the Wii directly though. I have to wonder why that is.

[Xerxes]

Cause the Wii isn't their competition.

[DaXIthR]

Sony is getting smarter as this generation, MS less so.

Sony's absolutely right to not cut prices further. It's already becoming a viable alternative to the 360 even at the higher price point. I've said this a thousand times, but the industry is constantly forward-looking (unless you're Nintendo and can keep a title in the Top 10 for six months or more). Basically, no one cares about what came out last week, let alone last month.

Saying the 360 has the most games now means if the upcoming lineup for the 360 largely mirrors the PS3's based on your taste. And the PS3 is a better value proposition because of its greater feature set.

The 360 might get a spike out of this for another month or two, but that'll be that. Does MS care that much about coming second in North America? Is that really so important?

EDIT:

Cause the Wii isn't their competition.

Right. And MS never, ever thought of a motion sensing controller after E3 06.

[Xerxes]

Right. And MS never, ever thought of a motion sensing controller after E3 06.

That's just wanting someone else's milkshake.

[Micasa]

Wal-Mart here has the Premium for $297.68 today.

[gojira]

So, price drop? Or dumping stock before the big announcement makes their current stock obsolete? How many more SKUs can this generation take before we've actually started the next generation? And will it make a difference or will Mario keep kicking everyone square in their keyster?

[DeathtollWRX]

This is good news for those of who do not already have one. Doesn't matter to me since I have been a fan since day one.

I'm hoping this will sell more 360's which will prompt more games.

With Too Human and Gears of War 2 coming out we have alot to look forward to..

Now if we can just score Stacraft 2 and Diablo 3 well be good to go.

[Xerxes]

This is good news for those of who do not already have one. Doesn't matter to me since I have been a fan since day one.

I'm hoping this will sell more 360's which will prompt more games.

With Too Human and Gears of War 2 coming out we have alot to look forward to..

Now if we can just score Stacraft 2 and Diablo 3 well be good to go.

I don't know about SC2, but I think if Too Human can do it, Diablo can do it. Although for a console game they'd probably need a console team already on the job of porting it over. Other wise it would never come out.

[PopoWRX]

I don't know about SC2, but I think if Too Human can do it, Diablo can do it. Although for a console game they'd probably need a console team already on the job of porting it over. Other wise it would never come out.

Yea, I don't care about Diablo 3 porting to console, I just never want to see something like Oblivion having the console as the lead sku.

[Xerxes]

Yea, I don't care about Diablo 3 porting to console, I just never want to see something like Oblivion having the console as the lead sku.

Hmmm, making money or what you never want to see again... Bethesda has a tough decision on their hands. Just saying.

Luckily, I think Blizzard has an installation base on PCs better than anyone else.

[Serapth]

Not going to say grammar title bad.

[jeffbax]

Yea, I don't care about Diablo 3 porting to console, I just never want to see something like Oblivion having the console as the lead sku.

I like Diablo sticking to PC... but Oblivion which is more a slower adventure rpg I don't mind going with controller.

[Bahamut]

There's no reason for Microsoft to really market against the Wii - they rather have Wii owners consider buying a 360. Nintendo's strategy of bringing more people into the gaming market can help both Sony and Microsoft in bringing a new demographic who may potentially down the line buy one of their products.

As for the price drop being only $50, it's not a large price drop, but Microsoft is in a pricing bind. They'd like to cut the price of the console close to the Wii, but by keeping the price high, it forces a lot of people to choose between a PS3 or a 360, and Microsoft is confident that most will choose the 360 given that choice. That means that if there are multiplatform titles that come out for both the 360 and PS3 that consumers want to buy, their choice is already made if they were put in the predicament of choosing between a 360 or PS3 earlier.

[Uniqueusername]

If the pro is $299, what will the other SKUs be?

A $199 Arcade pack sounds like a possibility...

[UnderHero5]

From what I've seen, this will be a "fire sale", like all the 360 fans bitched about last year when the PS3 "dropped price", only to be replaced by a new SKU.

60 gig Pro in (at $350), 20 gig out.

[DaXIthR]

That's just wanting someone else's milkshake.

And that's a tautology. How do you get 'someone else's milkshake' without competing with them?

[Xerxes]

Tautology? I think not. You don't compete with people for their milkshake if you want it. You just get a big straw and take it, remember. Basically they thought about stealing for the sake of stealing. Not to be the better Wii. You see they abandoned it after that Sixaxis fiasco didn't they. :p

If PS3 Sixaxis was a hit, that would show that their customers wanted it. That's the competition. They want some form of hardcore games, and media junkies. I'm not even sure who the Wii caters to anymore. I think many of us have Wiis and it doesn't even get a fraction of 360 playtime.

[pseudopseudo]

One of the Gamestops in town here already has their signage up for the price cut, even though it's not supposed to be up until Sunday.

So... yeah. Not surprising.

[mkelehan]

If the pro is $299, what will the other SKUs be?

A $199 Arcade pack sounds like a possibility...

$199, probably not. But I think we'll see it at no more than the Wii's price of $250, and possibly undercutting it slightly at $240, which would be really interesting.

[Ancalagon]

I'm somewhat amazed that, in the UK, an XBox 360 Arcade is £150 and a Wii including Wii Sports is £180. To me, that price completely negates the advantage the Wii is supposed to have - price.

That being said, the Wii is selling well enough for them to probably not have to care.

[bone_matrix]

Technically, the Targets aren't supposed to sell the Pro 360 at the $300 price until Sunday, otherwise they can be severely penalized I guess.

Just a heads up to anyone trying to buy one today.

[bean19]

Saying the 360 has the most games now means if the upcoming lineup for the 360 largely mirrors the PS3's based on your taste.

No. What I'm saying is that the Xbox 360 has more total games out, more exclusives out, almost twice as many quality games that have an 80% or above metacritic rating than the other next-gen consoles, and more games that have sold over a million copies. By any metric the Xbox 360 game library is superior to the others.

However, if you want to believe that people make console purchases only based on the recent or soon upcoming game releases rather than a console's whole library, then I'll point you at the PS2's success. There were people buying it to play God of War (or FF X, Kingdom Hearts, Shadow of the Collosus, etc. etc.) literally YEARS after the game came out.

The way this works is that great exclusive games create "word of mouth" advertising. As a really little kid, I went to a friend's house and played FF IV (U.S.) on the SNES. After that, I was completely obsessed with getting a SNES and this game. This was three months before my birthday and a year before next Christmas and I was probably only ten years old. I wrote a letter to everyone who would normally give me a gift on my birthday (close family really) and explained why this game was so fun and why I would prefer that they send my mother money for this gift rather than getting me something individual. Additionally, I went around the neighborhood mowing lawns for whatever someone would give me. Once a neighbor only payed me $4, which was a profit of $3 after I had bought gas. The point is, people play old games that are good but exclusive on a system and it creates interest in that system. Dead Rising, Gears of War, Halo, Viva Pinata, Mass Effect, etc. are all old games now, but they will have an effect on future sales.

If you still disagree, then that's fine. I don't know how many people will agree with you. However, because the PS3 has had so many of it's great exclusive that were planned to come out this year slip into 2009, the Xbox 360's fall lineup outshines it dramatically. Even if the 2008 360 fall lineup isn't as insanely good as the 2007 360 lineup, you don't have to work as hard to win when the other guy doesn't bring half his horses to the race.


And the PS3 is a better value proposition because of its greater feature set.

Well, the PS3 doesn't have a greater "feature set". The only thing it has that the Xbox 360 doesn't have equally or better is the Blu-Ray player, but the Xbox 360 has the better feature set with a much better online service, superior game library, and price-point. If you don't mind waiting for the long-ass download of HD movies, you even have the ability to watch HD movies on the Xbox 360.

However, where they'll lose people is with those who aren't interested in the superior game library or online features. There are still a lot of people who don't even have online, or who don't want to wire it to their television. Microsoft also isn't making the choice to use wireless competitive because the wireless adapter is set at a ridiculous price of $100.

Joe Public may not ever be interested in Mass Effect, Fable 2, or Dead Rising (among a hundred other exclusives), because all he wants to play is Madden and a handful of big-name games that are multiplatform, and, to this person, paying an extra $100 for a Blu-Ray player may absolutely be worth it.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Wow, so the 360 will finally be down to the price that the original Xbox launched at seven years ago.

It's about time I guess.

If MS actually wants to sell consoles they need to drop it down to $200 or less soon. Otherwise they are going to remain flat and probably ending up selling fewer consoles than Sony in the end.

[jakie_chon]

So, no price drop on the other SKUs? That sucks

[pseudopseudo]

If MS actually wants to sell consoles they need to drop it down to $200 or less soon. Otherwise they are going to remain flat and probably ending up selling fewer consoles than Sony in the end.

Are you kidding me? Down to $299 is kind of a big deal. A HUGE deal.

I guess we'll all find out in a few weeks whether it'll do what Microsoft is hoping it will. I myself see my store cranking out a few extra boxes a day because of this.

I think the key point is that this brings the price to only $50 more than the Wii. I think that's massive.

[cp#]

Yawn, I got my 20GB Pro with HDMI for $279.99 from Meijer last October

[pseudopseudo]

I wonder if this'll bring down the price of the special bundle Microsoft has on their retail loyalty site.

As it stands, you can get a Premium (the new ones with HDMI) with an extra wireless controller, Blue Dragon and Project Gotham Racing 4 for $339.

[bean19]

I guess we'll all find out in a few weeks whether it'll do what Microsoft is hoping it will. I myself see my store cranking out a few extra boxes a day because of this.

Sales slump big time in the summer for all consoles, so I think we won't see much of a bump from this. Even with a marketing campaign to show off the new lower price, I think most people are saving their extra cash to go on vacation. It's an odd time to lower the price.

[pseudopseudo]

Sales slump big time in the summer for all consoles, so I think we won't see much of a bump from this. Even with a marketing campaign to show off the new lower price, I think most people are saving their extra cash to go on vacation. It's an odd time to lower the price.

That is a good point. I guess maybe at E3 we'll all get let in on exactly why this is going down the way it is?

[Schnoogs]

It's an odd time to lower the price.

Ummmm...no. An odd time to lower the price is a time when people will buy it regardless. If people are "saving for a vacation", now is the perfect time to make spending money elsewhere all the more enticing.

[fitbabits]

Too little, but just in time before it was too late.

[Schnoogs]

Too little, but just in time before it was too late.

Too late before what though?

[fitbabits]

Too late before what though?

Before Microsoft loses the battle for those still on the fence as far as PS3 versus Xbox 360.

[Schnoogs]

Before Microsoft loses the battle for those still on the fence as far as PS3 versus Xbox 360.

I would agree if there were games for the PS3...but I still rarely meet anyone who buys a PS3 for anything other than BluRay.

[fitbabits]

I would agree if there were games for the PS3...but I still rarely meet anyone who buys a PS3 for anything other than BluRay.

There ARE games for the PS3, just not as many as there are for the 360, or Wii for that matter. Now this brings me to a point I've been pondering - are there too many games being made? Part of the appeal of the PS3 for me is that there are fewer games available for it, which means that I have a better chance of getting value for money from the games available. Oh, and it's a swanky Blu-ray player.

[DaXIthR]

No. What I'm saying is that the Xbox 360 has more total games out, more exclusives out, almost twice as many quality games that have an 80% or above metacritic rating than the other next-gen consoles, and more games that have sold over a million copies. By any metric the Xbox 360 game library is superior to the others.

My response is that this isn't 15 years ago. Back then, you could save money for a year and buy A Link the the Past. Now, you save for a year after seeing Gears of War, and you buy Gears of War 2.

The PS2 example is one I'm going to discount because of the nature of that beast. Against three respectable opponents (DC, GCN, Xbox), the PS2 still had - in my estimation - 90% of all exclusives. That kind of lopsidedness will probably never be seen again.

When faced with 360/PS3 dilemma, you can pick Halo 3 or Resistance and you get a solid (perhaps great in some people's minds) FPS. Your driving sim can be GT5 or Forza 2. You can get Ninja Gaiden 2 or God of War 3. You can gets Gears or Uncharted. I know, some of these are out, some aren't. But the libraries do mirror each other more than most people like to let on.

Even if the 2008 360 fall lineup isn't as insanely good as the 2007 360 lineup, you don't have to work as hard to win when the other guy doesn't bring half his horses to the race.

Well, the PS3 doesn't have a greater "feature set". The only thing it has that the Xbox 360 doesn't have equally or better is the Blu-Ray player, but the Xbox 360 has the better feature set with a much better online service, superior game library, and price-point. If you don't mind waiting for the long-ass download of HD movies, you even have the ability to watch HD movies on the Xbox 360.

Addressed some of this already. Standard HDD, interchangeable HDD, reliable hardware, built-in wireless, PSP functionality, and the fact that 90% of PS3 owners watch BR movies say your list is disappointing. Also, doubling the point made in my last post - the PS3 is the system that got the last great game, MGS4.

Sony is doing OK. I don't expect a revolution from them at E3 but still enough to keep who are leaning towards the 360 second-guessing.

Joe Public may not ever be interested in Mass Effect, Fable 2, or Dead Rising (among a hundred other exclusives), because all he wants to play is Madden and a handful of big-name games that are multiplatform, and, to this person, paying an extra $100 for a Blu-Ray player may absolutely be worth it.

And when it comes to the importance and impact of a price drop, isn't this the most important part? Doesn't Madden TRIPLE the combined sales of the titles you mentioned there every single year?

[DaXIthR]

Tautology? I think not. You don't compete with people for their milkshake if you want it.

In that case, I have no idea what it means to want someone else's milkshake. By your reasoning, Sony couldn't possibly be interested in MS Milkshake, and vice versa.

I don't know what your milkshake is a metaphor for, but I'll be downright astounded if you can convince me those two companies aren't interested in the other's milk and ice cream.

I'm somewhat amazed that, in the UK, an XBox 360 Arcade is £150 and a Wii including Wii Sports is £180. To me, that price completely negates the advantage the Wii is supposed to have - price.

That being said, the Wii is selling well enough for them to probably not have to care.

I can't believe I didn't mention this in my earlier post. I believe the price advantage exists for mainland Europe as well, and is more pronounced in Japan. Add to that the fact the Wii is still going WAY above asking price on craigslist and Amazon speaks volumes as well.

Again, props to Sony for not dropping the price. MS had their chance early last year to get a major advantage but chose not to act. This won't have near the impact it would have had in Feb or March last year.

[DaXIthR]

Sales slump big time in the summer for all consoles, so I think we won't see much of a bump from this.

By 'all consoles', you must mean systems not named "Wii" or "DS".

[pseudopseudo]

By 'all consoles', you must mean systems not named "Wii" or "DS".

Damn, isn't that the truth.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/2399865994_ea77b6a3b5.jpg?v=0

[Xerxes]

In that case, I have no idea what it means to want someone else's milkshake. By your reasoning, Sony couldn't possibly be interested in MS Milkshake, and vice versa.

I don't know what your milkshake is a metaphor for, but I'll be downright astounded if you can convince me those two companies aren't interested in the other's milk and ice cream.

There will be blood.
URjeS5-NaXY

Sony and MS competing for the same thing. They want media boxes in your house. They also want the established gamers group as it is. I think established is a better term than hardcore. Wii wants kid friendly/casual/new gamers. Think of it gateway drugs to real drugs. MS wants those folks hooked on the soft stuff to come over and trip balls.

[oldjadedgamer]

I would agree if there were games for the PS3...but I still rarely meet anyone who buys a PS3 for anything other than BluRay.

I have yet to meet a person in real life who owns a PS3 and didn't buy it as a Blu-ray player first and a games machine second.

Where as every single person I met bought the 360 or Wii as a game machine and nothing else. Just thinking on the top of my head, these people own more games for their systems then my PS3 friends.

I even asked a friend who just bought a new PS3 if he got any new games for it and he said "no, but I got Goodfella's on Blu-ray... does that count?"

[bean19]

My response is that this isn't 15 years ago. Back then, you could save money for a year and buy A Link the the Past. Now, you save for a year after seeing Gears of War, and you buy Gears of War 2.

So your position is that people are no longer playing fun exclusive games at a friend or family member's house and then deciding to go out and buy that console based on their personal experience playing a fun exclusive?

Sure, the PS3 just got a great exclusive with MGS, but that doesn't compare to the number of great exclusive that the Xbox 360 has, and even if people loved playing Gears of War at a friend's house and they buy the sequel, they are still buying an Xbox 360 to play either of them, so I don't follow your logic there.

When faced with 360/PS3 dilemma, you can pick Halo 3 or Resistance. . .

Let's just assume that people think that those are decent comparisons, and avoid that whole highly subjective discussion (unless you bring in metacritics in which your side would not do well and the fact that you mentioned a game that isn't even out yet and won't be out for over a year).

Okay, giving you that much, there is still the fact that there are far MORE Xbox 360 exclusives than PS3 exclusives and far MORE of them are plantinum hits (million+ sellers) and there are overall more high quality games on the machine (80% metacritic rating or better). Plus there are 6 million more Xbox 360 consoles in the world for people to see and play at a friend's house.

Having more consoles and more high quality games and more exclusives means many more potential "word of mouth" sales.

[The PS3 feature set includes] Standard HDD, interchangeable HDD, reliable hardware, built-in wireless, PSP functionality, and [Blu-Ray]

So far the only thing that having a hard-drive in every PS3 has allowed the PS3 to do is to make us suffer through long install periods for games because the Blu-Ray player takes so long to read data that games must be pre-loaded on to the disc to avoid really long load screens. Both systems have interchangeable HDDs, so I'm not sure what you are getting at there unless you mean the ability to save a few dollars if you ever need to upgrade your super large HDD by using a non-Sony brand one (if that is even possible. .. I don't know, it isn't a "feature" I care about but I'm sure it does, so a point to the PS3 on this. . . for those who care).

Reliability is a big bonus over the Xbox 360 even though Microsoft is paying to fix all of the consoles for free, it is a pain in the ass to send your system off and mass market people (especially parents who won't play the Xbox 360 themseleves) really don't want to deal with it.

PSP functionality is another very geeky plus, but it is a plus for those who are interested (one that I had also not thought about because it is definitely not something I care about, so thanks for pointing it out), and I already mentioned the ability to play HD movies as a very large mover of the system.

And when it comes to the importance and impact of a price drop, isn't [the opinion of Joe Public, the guy who plays only a few titles each year and thus isn't as interested in which system has the best game library] the most important part? Doesn't Madden TRIPLE the combined sales of the titles you mentioned there every single year?

Which ones? Gears of War and Halo both outsold it. CoD 4 on the Xbox 360 out-sold it as well. You have to add up the multiple system sales of Madden for it to beat the others I mentioned, but I'd have to look up the numbers to see which ones it tripled the sales of. It certainly didn't triple all of them combined.

However, that doesn't make them a less important demographic. They don't buy as many games as gamers, but they do buy some, and most true gamers buy every system for the console exclusives anyway, so having an early advantage with "gamers" just means a lot of money from game sales. We msut be constantly courted to keep us continuously buying multiplatform titles on any given system (except for the console fanboys who would rather swear allegiance to a console than have fun playing games on other consoles - poor things).

They are very important to get, as are parents and kiddos (mass market altogether really). The Xbox 360 will get some due to the lower cost, superior game library, and superior word of mouth, but the PS3 at $400 is a good deal with the Blu-Ray player and will get some too.

[bean19]

There ARE games for the PS3, just not as many as there are for the 360, or Wii for that matter. Now this brings me to a point I've been pondering - are there too many games being made? Part of the appeal of the PS3 for me is that there are fewer games available for it, which means that I have a better chance of getting value for money from the games available. Oh, and it's a swanky Blu-ray player.

What? My experience has been that only MGS is worth a $60 purchase, and that I want Ratchet and Uncharted when they are $20 in a store bin, but until then I can beat either of them in a weekend rental for $5 (or Gamefly them).

The PS3 is not a "value" system. It is an extravagant system for phat playerz. ;) I totally plan to get one when a decent RPG comes out that makes the system more than a fancy Blu-Ray player (to me).

[Gorvi]

My box is better than your box!


/sigh

[DaXIthR]

Sony and MS competing for the same thing. They want media boxes in your house. They also want the established gamers group as it is. I think established is a better term than hardcore. Wii wants kid friendly/casual/new gamers. Think of it gateway drugs to real drugs. MS wants those folks hooked on the soft stuff to come over and trip balls.

Makes sense. I agree. But it kills your analogy.

I'd like to hear an argument for how Sony and MS compete without wanting each other's milkshake.

So your position is that people are no longer playing fun exclusive games at a friend or family member's house and then deciding to go out and buy that console based on their personal experience playing a fun exclusive?

Sure, the PS3 just got a great exclusive with MGS, but that doesn't compare to the number of great exclusive that the Xbox 360 has, and even if people loved playing Gears of War at a friend's house and they buy the sequel, they are still buying an Xbox 360 to play either of them, so I don't follow your logic there.

Well, I don't know how to say it more plainly. Hit me with an EPIC FAIL, or read my last two posts again. To your first point: Yes, that phenomenon still happens. It's called Wii Sports. It happens a hell of a lot less with other systems, as is evidenced by sales numbers. The 360 and PS3 are capturing far fewer imaginations.

Someone who plays Gear of War and then saves money to buy Gears 2, does not buy Gears 1. That's all I'm saying, the industry is constantly forward-looking. It's not that deep. We've already had a dozen most-anticipated games of the year see release already. And there's probably another dozen in the wings.

You don't see that as odd, great. I find it strange.

Okay, giving you that much, there is still the fact that there are far MORE Xbox 360 exclusives than PS3 exclusives and far MORE of them are plantinum hits (million+ sellers) and there are overall more high quality games on the machine (80% metacritic rating or better).

Plus there are 6 million more Xbox 360 consoles in the world for people to see and play at a friend's house. Having more consoles and more high quality games and more exclusives means many more potential "word of mouth" sales.

More doesn't mean much, if people aren't looking forward to anything else on the system. If that was the case, the PS2 would still be outselling everything by a landslide. And I don't buy that "more platinum titles" bit for a minute. I've never once bought a game because it went platinum, unless that meant its price dropped to $20.

6M lead sounds impressive, does it? What about the fact that the PS3 launch was an abortion and a miscarriage and the 10M unit lead is dwindling? What about the 10M unit lead MS had on the Wii? Word of mouth doesn't work the way you suggest, apparently.

Reliability is a big bonus over the Xbox 360 even though Microsoft is paying to fix all of the consoles for free, it is a pain in the ass to send your system off and mass market people (especially parents who won't play the Xbox 360 themseleves) really don't want to deal with it.

The value proposition and feature set appeal to different people differently, so I'd rather not run in circles here. You made some points. So did I. But I'm going to call you out on this paragraph.

MS isn't fixing all consoles for free. They are fixing RRODs and only RRODs for free. And sometimes, they take TWO YEARS to do that. At least, that was the report from Joystiq, if I recall correctly.

Which ones?

Which ones? The three you mentioned in the very paragraph I quoted: Fable 2, Mass Effect and Dead Rising. Perhaps you'll care to change the rest of your argument.

[oldjadedgamer]

6M lead sounds impressive, does it? What about the fact that the PS3 launch was an abortion and a miscarriage and the 10M unit lead is dwindling? What about the 10M unit lead MS had on the Wii? Word of mouth doesn't work the way you suggest, apparently.

Actually, Sony themselves have publicly stated that they plan on selling *less* PS3's this year then they planned to sell last year. For fiscal year 2007, they planned to sell 11 million units and for fiscal year 2008 they said they plan to sell 10 million units. This number if you didn't notice is going down... not up. Hard to catch up when Sony themselves are lowering their expectations.

[Laughing_Penguin]

There ARE games for the PS3, just not as many as there are for the 360, or Wii for that matter. Now this brings me to a point I've been pondering - are there too many games being made? Part of the appeal of the PS3 for me is that there are fewer games available for it, which means that I have a better chance of getting value for money from the games available.

I don't understand this thinking at all... having fewer games for your game console is somehow considered a good thing?

The PS2's biggest strength was it's massive game library. Sure, there was a lot of crap in there, but you were really spoiled for choice, and had a really easy time finding games that suited what you liked. Would that be considered a bad thing to you?

Your statement seems to run contrary to any kind of logic...

[bean19]

6M lead sounds impressive, does it? What about the fact that the PS3 launch was an abortion and a miscarriage and the 10M unit lead is dwindling?

This is the paragraph where I figured out that you aren't interested in discussing this price drop and whether or not it will be effective so much as you are interested in cheering for your favorite team in the console war.

That's cool, but I'm honestly interested in how this price drop will effect things, and I wasn't saying that the 6 million console lead that that Xbox 360 has over the PS3 makes it a better system or that the Xbox 360 is going to win the generation, or implying or inferring it. I was saying that the Xbox 360's greater install base and superior game library will lead to better "word of mouth" sales than the PS3 will enjoy.

So are you still on topic and agreeing that the superior game library and larger install base will lead to greater word-of-mouth sales but you think that the Xbox 360's larger install base is going away and won't always be an advantage, or are you saying that you don't think that "word of mouth" sales are occurring because the PS3 has gained back some of the ground it lost to the Xbox 360, or is this just completely off topic?

In any case, I'm not convinced by any of the two possible points you were making.

As far as fixing consoles for free, I'm just not going to engage you there, because I already conceded the point for the context of this discussion and would appreciate it if you focused on the discussion. If you want to start a hate thread where you link to poorly documented and probably false links of people who are either lying or have encountered extraordinary problems, then do it in another thread. My experience is that they'll fix ANY problem for a year, and RROD for 3 years. I had to send back a launch unit and was extremely impressed at their fast and completely free service, and then I had to return that replacement unit two years later. Again, the service was extremely fast and utterly free. I've owned an Xbox 360 for 2 years and 8 months, and I only had to buy ONE of them. I had to buy 4 PS2's and 2 Xbox's last generation (which says as much about how often I used them as their reliability), so I'm making out really well this gen. If my experience, and the experience of all of my friends who own them breaking (they really do break all the goddamn time - don't get me wrong, this is a concern even though they are fixed for free), was not so absolutely contrary to the FUD I have read on the internet, then I might believe you.

As it stands though, I'm going to believe my own experiences instead. . . and to get this back on topic, I think that reliability is a MAJOR reason that the Xbox 360 has slowed down in sales. Like I said before, mass market users don't care if there is a one year warranty on everything and a 3-year warranty on the big problem that occurs most often. They want a system that they aren't going to have to fuss over, and that they don't view as being delicate. No one wants to give a kid something that is both expensive and delicate, and even a free repair involves an annoying customer service call and a trip to the UPS store. Plus, I think you honestly believe the FUD you spread about it, and that many people who haven't had real experiences with this believe you or at least fear that those stories are true. Even if only one in a million people are getting screwed, no one wants to be that unlucky millionth person. So it has a significant impact on sales despite their laudable damage control.

[oldjadedgamer]

There ARE games for the PS3, just not as many as there are for the 360, or Wii for that matter. Now this brings me to a point I've been pondering - are there too many games being made? Part of the appeal of the PS3 for me is that there are fewer games available for it, which means that I have a better chance of getting value for money from the games available. Oh, and it's a swanky Blu-ray player.

So does that mean that your favorite all time system was the Super Grafx since there was only 7 total games made for it?

[DaXIthR]

Actually, Sony themselves have publicly stated that they plan on selling *less* PS3's this year then they planned to sell last year. For fiscal year 2007, they planned to sell 11 million units and for fiscal year 2008 they said they plan to sell 10 million units. This number if you didn't notice is going down... not up. Hard to catch up when Sony themselves are lowering their expectations.

Fair enough. Good point. But do you have numbers for MS? Is the 360 on track to do better than 10M?

This is the paragraph where I figured out that you aren't interested in discussing this price drop and whether or not it will be effective so much as you are interested in cheering for your favorite team in the console war.

This must be the first time you've read any of my posts, so this is especially funny. No one's ever accused me of being a Sony fanboy - much less a PS3 one. I don't have a PS3. I have a 360 with over a dozen games for it. I'll have a couple more when Ninja Gaiden 2 and Lost Odyssey drop in price.

I suppose I could have accused you of the same when you presented the lopsided feature list for the 360, but I'm not going to stoop. Water under the bridge, anyway...

Let me tackle the rest of your post like Schnoogs would...

I wasn't saying that the 6 million console lead that that Xbox 360 has over the PS3 makes it a better system or that the Xbox 360 is going to win the generation, or implying or inferring it.

I never said so either. I never accused you of doing so.

So are you still on topic and agreeing that the superior game library and larger install base will lead to greater word-of-mouth sales but you think that the Xbox 360's larger install base is going away and won't always be an advantage, or are you saying that you don't think that "word of mouth" sales are occurring because the PS3 has gained back some of the ground it lost to the Xbox 360, or is this just completely off topic?

In any case, I'm not convinced by any of the two possible points you were making.

If you want to start a hate thread where you link to poorly documented and probably false links of people who are either lying or have encountered extraordinary problems, then do it in another thread.

Simmer down.

My experience is that they'll fix ANY problem for a year, and RROD for 3 years. I had to send back a launch unit and was extremely impressed at their fast and completely free service, and then I had to return that replacement unit two years later.

It's unfair to call someone a liar because it's not what you want to hear. Odds are, it happened (http://xboxfamily.com/us/index.php/Latest/Gamer-Waits-Ywo-Years-For-Xbox-360-Repair.html).
Anyway, here's your homework (http://www.xbox.com/en-us/support/systemsetup/xbox360/resources/warrantyupdate.htm). Just read the first paragraph.

I'd also like to understand what you mean by "utterly free". The instant you have an RROD, does a MS technician show up at your door and hand you two working units? One you can use as a coaster?

...

Apart from that, your post was pretty angry, and repeatedly accused me of digressing from the main argument. Maybe we're just not meant to be together, bean. Maybe we're not right for each other. I just read my posts twice - don't see the errant tangents.

[bean19]

Apart from that, your post was pretty angry, and repeatedly accused me of digressing from the main argument. Maybe we're just not meant to be together, bean. Maybe we're not right for each other. I just read my posts twice - don't see the errant tangents.

Or maybe I was being too sensitive. :)

I honestly don't know who the PS3 fanboys are besides Gorvi (now reformed to just a Sony fan, and he is my favorite Sony fan because I can follow his logic and he is willing to follow mine to at least understand my point of view) and that guy with a handle that starts with Tee. . . I forget it. I'm sure there are more, but it takes a long time for me to learn names. My impression of you before this wasn't a strong one, but I generally though of you as someone who makes interesting points that I don't always agree with. That is still my impression.

Anyway, I think I've said what I have to say. All I would do is repeat myself, and what I have to say is in reply to issues that would venture us far off topic. I am annoyed that you didn't reply to how I brought the reliability issue back on topic but just went further down the rabbit hole though.

[fitbabits]

I don't understand this thinking at all... having fewer games for your game console is somehow considered a good thing?

The PS2's biggest strength was it's massive game library. Sure, there was a lot of crap in there, but you were really spoiled for choice, and had a really easy time finding games that suited what you liked. Would that be considered a bad thing to you?

Your statement seems to run contrary to any kind of logic...

It would be a good thing for me. As it is, the game library for the Xbox 360 is already too large for my liking, and this fall's release schedule has me in hives. Sure, I don't need to buy the games, but the fact is I'd feel like I was missing out if I didn't.

[bean19]

It would be a good thing for me. As it is, the game library for the Xbox 360 is already too large for my liking, and this fall's release schedule has me in hives. Sure, I don't need to buy the games, but the fact is I'd feel like I was missing out if I didn't.

The Merch (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/01/05/) must absolutely love you. I find your Pokemon attitude towards gaming funny.

Personally, I just wish they spread them out through the year better. You'd think I'd have a lot of titles to catch up on in the summer, but instead what I do is devour games in the fall more quickly so that I am done in time for the next game I want to play.

[DaXIthR]

Anyway, I think I've said what I have to say. All I would do is repeat myself, and what I have to say is in reply to issues that would venture us far off topic. I am annoyed that you didn't reply to how I brought the reliability issue back on topic but just went further down the rabbit hole though.

You're thinking of TeeCakes.

I brought up the 360 reliability, and I'm glad you're not singing praises like "we should be grateful it's not less reliable". You made a strong case on how MS faltered with their hardware, and what the general perception is. I didn't respond not to be dismissive, but because there wasn't much to add.

Another good point is MS making HDD and wireless adapters prohibitively expensive. If someone has an HDD and a wireless adapter, they are far more likely to invest XBL Gold. MS should bundle the 20GB and a wireless adapter for $60 - the price of a game.

People will XBL Gold are the ones who spend hundreds of dollars on marketplace. Counter-intuitively, MS is creating barriers to entry.

Sorry if I came off as an ass in other posts. Or in this for that matter. You'll be interested to know Pachter put out another report recently which says MS is really sweating it against the PS3 after their head start. MS apparently feels every PS3 sold is a missed opportunity. And the people who own both a PS3 and a 360 must be a very, small - infinitesimal - minority.

[Gorvi]

So this isn't really a price drop so much as it is clearing the 20GB stock to replace it with the new 60GB models. It's good to see them finally put a more reasonably sized hard drive in the 360.