PS3 Trophies for All Games

[Dr.Finger]

Those fans waiting with bated breath can rest easier. Yes, you will eventually be able to earn trophies in your launch copy of Ridge Racer 7, just like every other previously released PlayStation 3 title.

Sony's Eric Lempel told Gamespy (http://ps3.gamespy.com/articles/885/885361p1.html) that they plan to eventually have Trophies for each and every game. However there's no timeframe on this promise - it takes time and resources to make the Trophies for each game - so don't expect your copy of Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire to have Trophies tomorrow.

Source - Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/02/uncharted-and-every-game-getting-ps3-trophies/).

[Deadend]

Every game will have Trophies around the same time every Xbox game will have BC.

[Norse]

I read recently that developers aren't forced to put trophies in their future games. I guess that was wrong, unless Sony are going to patch each game themselves :p

[EternalGamer]

This is great news. As I said in the other thread, I've messed around with the new update for a few hours now and got 5 trophies in Super Stardust. I really like how clean and uniform it is (same XMB bar both in game and out). I also like the meta-game of your Gamertag gaining levels like an RPG and the different level of trophies. Now all they need is in game chat (right now it is just in game messages).

I can easily see this system rivaling Live's interface in just a few more updates now and it's completely FREE. All I need now is more friends with PS3's, and slowly but surely that is occuring.

[CylonLord]

Every game will have Trophies around the same time every Xbox game will have BC.

I was going to post the same thing. This is great news and all..but I'll believe it when I see it. I really don't see them going back to create trophies for games that nobody is ever going to play again or only has a tiny audience. But, Sony could prove me wrong and I'll be more than happy to admit I was wrong.

[Gorvi]

I think they meant every game going forward, not every game in the PS3's back catalog. that could just be how I'm reading it, though.

[Dr.Finger]

Yeah, I've read some conflicting reports on that too. I'm not sure if the old message has been superseded, or if everyone just isn't on the same page (a la the SCEA-SCEE fiasco from a year or two back)

[EternalGamer]

I read recently that developers aren't forced to put trophies in their future games. I guess that was wrong, unless Sony are going to patch each game themselves :p

Well, it would be dumb for developers not to do it, especially for multiplatform release where the work is essentially already done since they need them for 360. But this is one case where I think Sony should put a mandatory requriement.

Open interface in terms of mods and data size is good. But things like trophies and in game messaging and chat should be standardized. Looks like Sony is moving towards a middle ground philosophy that incorporates the best features of an open platform with the best features of one with standardization. Good for them.

[menage]

I read recently that developers aren't forced to put trophies in their future games. I guess that was wrong, unless Sony are going to patch each game themselves :p

I think that is exactly what they need to do. Namco can't be arsed to patch their RR 2 years after release when nobody plays it anymore.

[EternalGamer]

Don't games like Ratchet and Uncharted and many others already essentially have them? They just need to be standardized into "trophies." I doubt it will take long for it to happen in those cases. And those big games are the only ones I really care about in terms of old titles. Just make sure all the ones going forward have them.

[Siraris]

The thing I don't get is, I'm pretty sure companies like Uncharted and Insomniac have known about this for a while. Couldn't you have a producer or two sit down in a weekend and come up with 20 or 30 trophies and have had it ready for 2.4 launch? Seems really strange to me, especially since companies like Insomniac were talking about trophies months ago for Home.

[Gorvi]

Don't games like Ratchet and Uncharted and many others already essentially have them? They just need to be standardized into "trophies." I doubt it will take long for it to happen in those cases. And those big games are the only ones I really care about in terms of old titles. Just make sure all the ones going forward have them.
Yeah, Ratchet, Uncharted, and Resistance all have things similar to Achievements. Of course, Insomniac has been putting those things in their games since the first Ratchet on the PS2 (or maybe the second) so that's nothing really new.

[EternalGamer]

The thing I don't get is, I'm pretty sure companies like Uncharted and Insomniac have known about this for a while. Couldn't you have a producer or two sit down in a weekend and come up with 20 or 30 trophies and have had it ready for 2.4 launch? Seems really strange to me, especially since companies like Insomniac were talking about trophies months ago for Home.

Yeah, but this method means that Super Stardust HD gets a limited time "exclusive" on trophies boosting its sales. :)

[EternalGamer]

Yeah, Ratchet, Uncharted, and Resistance all have things similar to Achievements. Of course, Insomniac has been putting those things in their games since the first Ratchet on the PS2 (or maybe the second) so that's nothing really new.

I believe that the PS3 version of games like "The Darkness" also had them. But personally, I only care about the handful of exclusives getting them as I already played those older multiplatform games on the 360.

[Siraris]

Yeah, but this method means that Super Stardust HD gets a limited time "exclusive" on trophies boosting its sales. :)

True, true. It's shocking the subconscious effect achievements have on you. I got on right away and started playing for trophies, for what? Incredible.

[protocol_image]

Perhaps this will stimulate people to pick up games they've already completed, earning trophies during their revisit. Personally, I can't even keep up with NEW games. There are plenty of old beloved games that I would LOVE to revisit, but if I do.....the queue just gets bigger and bigger!

Would be nice if they could scan save files to auto-unlock trophies.....however, I realize this is probably not going to happen. If the devs didn't create an achievement tracking system, I highly doubt they would track that info in a save file....

++numTimesTeaBagged;

[Kelegacy]

Awesome. Won't bother me as much to buy a multiplatform game for PS3 instead of 360. At least future ones anyway.

[Gott]

COMING SOON!

So you will have to go back and earn trophies for games you already played huh? This a big deal?

[grognard66]

"It's coming eventually" should be Sony's official PS3 marketing line as often as they state that. Yet another half-assed implementation because they can't get their act together even after all this time. 360 launched nearly 3 YEARS ago with achievements fully implemented, cross-game invites and voice chat for every title and Sony STILL can't even commit to a date on these???
I hope the next time Sony launches a console they actually plan ahead and establish consistent ground rules for the system BEFORE releasing it.

[Ozymandias]

Well, it would be dumb for developers not to do it, especially for multiplatform release where the work is essentially already done since they need them for 360. But this is one case where I think Sony should put a mandatory requriement.

Actually, it can be quite hard for a developer to go back and do this work. The team usually moves on and is working on a new title, code is archived, and it's actually a really big deal to go back and crack it again. Sometimes you even see that the company has gone under, and although code might be available, the people who understood it have been scattered to the winds.

[Ozymandias]

The thing I don't get is, I'm pretty sure companies like Uncharted and Insomniac have known about this for a while. Couldn't you have a producer or two sit down in a weekend and come up with 20 or 30 trophies and have had it ready for 2.4 launch? Seems really strange to me, especially since companies like Insomniac were talking about trophies months ago for Home.

Sure you could. But who does the dev work? The testing? Managing the certification process? Creating the patch? Getting it packaged up so Sony can post? Etc. :)

[TrackZero]

Heh, and they just hope developers will go back to every single title released for the PS3 and implement these trophies out of the kindness of their hearts eh? Good luck with that Sony.

[Kelegacy]

COMING SOON!

So you will have to go back and earn trophies for games you already played huh? This a big deal?

Only if you want to unlock the trophies for old games. You don't HAVE to do anything.

[Kelegacy]

All I need now is more friends with PS3's, and slowly but surely that is occuring.

Yes, yes it is!

[EternalGamer]

Actually, it can be quite hard for a developer to go back and do this work. The team usually moves on and is working on a new title, code is archived, and it's actually a really big deal to go back and crack it again. Sometimes you even see that the company has gone under, and although code might be available, the people who understood it have been scattered to the winds.

You'll notice that I was responding to a post that was discussing FUTURE releases not being mandatory in terms of trophy inclusion. I doubt they'll really need to enforce it for future games. Developers would be dumb not to include them. That's what I was referring to.

Again, I would like it for some older games, and I imagine the big ones like Uncharted, Ratchet and Resistance will get it (Insomniac and Naughty Dog are both pretty good about being "team players" and incorporating features). But really, what is far more important to me is just that it is in future games.

As long as they can get it in future releases and fix it so that we have in game voice chat soon, they now have a system that comes pretty close to rivaling everything I like about Xbox Live, and, in some cases, their interface is slicker (I like the leveling concept and the standardized media bar in and outside of games). Microsoft should now begin to be worried about their pay to play system for Live. Sony is in a position to start eating their lunch.

One of MS's big advantages was the big tie in ratio for game sales and I think this is heavily tied to community features like gamescores, chat and messaging systems. Previously, this is the reason that I purchased any multiplatform stuff on the 360 over the PS3. Now that Sony has those features in a FREE service the playing field is leveled.

[kinadian]

Yeah, Ratchet, Uncharted, and Resistance all have things similar to Achievements. Of course, Insomniac has been putting those things in their games since the first Ratchet on the PS2 (or maybe the second) so that's nothing really new.

I haven't actually played them but I believe that Insomniac's Spyro games of the PS1 era had Skill Points in them - essentially the same thing as achievements / trophies.

For games of high quality like Resistance or Ratchet & Clank, I have no problems playing over to get the trophies. Actually, I haven't had a chance to play pick up Uncharted yet so now I'll just wait until after the trophy enabling patch comes out.

It's a trivial thing but there is also something sweet about unlocking an achievement or a trophy. It's a nice little ego boost when you unlock a mid-level one. The end of the level trophies just seem pointless to me. But trophies like the "pick up 5 tokens during one boost" in SSHD are nice.

[Virtual Machine]

I was never into the Achievement thing, nor do i understand the appeal. That said, i like the idea of them being handled like experience points, and actually giving players a "level". It's a little less arbitrary than a random number (woah! 10'000 achievment points!), as long as they (being Sony) can keep it all balanced (something Microsoft has failed miserably at - see King Kong, TMNT, NBA 2K7).

That aside, for an idea as to how deep the support is going to go with regards to back catalog, take a look at which previously released games have been patched with Dual Shock 3 support, and i'd say that's a pretty good reflection on what we'll see with Achievements.

While i'm sorry to see this particular feature worm its way in, more features is more features i guess... And it pretty much puts Sony ahead of Microsoft as far as features go.

No one can say they're missing anything now, except maybe a few buddies online. ;)

[Dukefrukem]

what about PS2 games?

[Micasa]

I think they meant every game going forward, not every game in the PS3's back catalog. that could just be how I'm reading it, though.

If they want that, they should have made it a mandatory part of the certification process.

[Micasa]

One of MS's big advantages was the big tie in ratio for game sales and I think this is heavily tied to community features like gamescores, chat and messaging systems. Previously, this is the reason that I purchased any multiplatform stuff on the 360 over the PS3. Now that Sony has those features in a FREE service the playing field is leveled.

They still don't have those things though. You can't cross-game invite. There's no cross-game voice chat - some games don't even have IN-game voice chat! A great deal of the new 'in-game' features can't be done 'in-game' at all, etc...

[Kelegacy]

Well, since I rarely play any games online, I might actually be buying my multiplatform titles on the PS3...should the trophy system prove to be interesting enough. And, should I ever crave to play one of my games online, I can do so for free, even if it is more cumbersome than Live. Win-win for me.

[Morangie]

One of MS's big advantages was the big tie in ratio for game sales and I think this is heavily tied to community features like gamescores, chat and messaging systems. Previously, this is the reason that I purchased any multiplatform stuff on the 360 over the PS3. Now that Sony has those features in a FREE service the playing field is leveled.
Not level quite yet (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/02/sony-responds-to-adverse-firmware-2-40-effects/). :)

[Darkman]

Well, it would be dumb for developers not to do it, especially for multiplatform release where the work is essentially already done since they need them for 360.

This isn't really an accurate description. Just because you know that a achievement is supposed to be given doesn't mean the code works even remotely the same. One goes through Xbox Live the other through PSN. Also there are some requirements that say that Xbox achievements can't be shared across other platforms. So say a Games for Windows game that is also a 360 game can't have the same achievements unless they also support Games for Live.

Having said that I think most developers want to make their end users happy and will try to accommodate this when they can.

[EternalGamer]

They still don't have those things though. You can't cross-game invite. There's no cross-game voice chat - some games don't even have IN-game voice chat! A great deal of the new 'in-game' features can't be done 'in-game' at all, etc...

Cross game invites don't seem that important to me. Since you essentially want to leave the game you are playing to play with someone else anyway, why is it a big deal that you have to exit to dash board and load that game up first? That is a minor inconvenience.

However, I'll agree that voice chat functionality needs to be implemented still. But that is the only real function they seem to be lacking now to make it truly comparable.

[EternalGamer]

Not level quite yet (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/02/sony-responds-to-adverse-firmware-2-40-effects/). :)

I'm sure they'll get the kinks worked out. But I'm glad I already have it and that it installed without a hitch.

[51|RandoM]

They still don't have those things though. You can't cross-game invite.

Splitting hairs here, IMHO. As long as you can send messages back and forth without leaving your current game you have the core functionality of crossgame invites, even if you don't have quite the ease of use where every game can interpret those invites automatically without you having to do anything besides except the invite.

That said, the ease of use is showing up in newer titles, with Burnout Paradise being a prime example.

[Micasa]

Cross game invites don't seem that important to me. Since you essentially want to leave the game you are playing to play with someone else anyway, why is it a big deal that you have to exit to dash board and load that game up first? That is a minor inconvenience.

However, I'll agree that voice chat functionality needs to be implemented still. But that is the only real function they seem to be lacking now to make it truly comparable.

Splitting hairs here, IMHO. As long as you can send messages back and forth without leaving your current game you have the core functionality of crossgame invites, even if you don't have quite the ease of use where every game can interpret those invites automatically without you having to do anything besides except the invite.

That said, the ease of use is showing up in newer titles, with Burnout Paradise being a prime example.

So there's no difference between getting an invite, clicking Yes and jumping right to it if it's an XBLA game or already in the tray, and getting an invite, putting the game in, firing up the game, then multiplayer, and then searching for the server and/or game that they texted to you? No difference there at all, huh?

That's not a difference of functionality at all, from my perspective. That's one that simply isn't functional at all - at least at this point.

[Zanzibar]

From what I've seen, this COULD NOT BE CLOSER to Microsoft's Achievement system in terms of implementation. I'm doing the legwork for our Achievements for our X360 version and it looks like we won't have to modify anything to get trophies working for our PS3 version.

[Shodan2020]

what about PS2 games?

Lulz! No. Why would they do that? What developer would spend the time to do that.. Sony certainly wouldn't.

[Rogue_hunter]

From what I've seen, this COULD NOT BE CLOSER to Microsoft's Achievement system in terms of implementation. I'm doing the legwork for our Achievements for our X360 version and it looks like we won't have to modify anything to get trophies working for our PS3 version.

I'm having a problem understanding what you are saying (could be the booze, dunno). So, implementing trophies is just the same as, easier, or harder than achievements?
How I'm seeing is that it takes no effort to port any achievements over to the ps3 version. Is that right?

[TrackZero]

From what I've seen, this COULD NOT BE CLOSER to Microsoft's Achievement system in terms of implementation. I'm doing the legwork for our Achievements for our X360 version and it looks like we won't have to modify anything to get trophies working for our PS3 version.

I wouldn't expect it is any different, which is why I'm kind of surprised they didn't have the hooks added to the games some time ago, pre implementation.

[Gott]

Sony pulls v2.40 firmware, denies full retro-trophy support
New update vanishes following apparent lockups as Sony shoots down reports claiming all past games will get awards; Burnout Paradise first to give trophies retroactively, Uncharted next for prize patch.
By Tor Thorsen, Tom Magrino, GameSpot
Posted Jul 2, 2008 3:04 pm PT

[Gorvi]

I'll still say that this does not sound like he's saying all games (past and present) will have trophies. It sounds like he's saying that all games going forward will (ideally) have trophies. That's a big difference.