Specific Revolution Questions Answered

[score]

From shacknews (http://www.shacknews.com) :

Journalist Chris Kohler, who wrote a Revolution hands-on article for Wired (http://wired.com/news/games/0,2101,68869,00.html?tw=wn_story_page_prev2) News, started a thread (http://ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=63993&page=1&pp=50) on the Gaming-Age forums in which he answers specific questions about his time with the recently-unveiled Nintendo Revolution controller. There's been a lot of speculation and misinformation spread around about the device already, and many of his answers give good closure to some of those rumors. Below are some of the more noteworthy quotes:

Regarding general handling and control: "I can't really compare the controller to existing tech. I can say that the learning curve was practically nonexistent. It's light. It's comfortable. It's goddamned precise." and "I can definitely say that you can point the thing at an angle at the TV, because that's the whole point of the device: you're not moving your whole arm around, you're just making very slight inflections with your wrist." and "When you play with a Wavebird, do you stand up and hold it at arm's length towards the screen? No. And you don't have to do this with the Revolution controller. You can sit with your hands in your lap and just move your wrist a little to cover the entire screen."

Regarding the Revolution-enabled Metroid Prime 2 demo: "As far as Metroid Prime 2, the honest answer is that it was so intuitive that I wasn't even thinking about HOW the controller was doing it. All I know is that I was easily able to spin in circles. IIRC: if you move it further and further towards the left or right of the screen, Samus will start to spin around, and if you bring it back to the center she stops." and "I don't know what sort of impressions other than "Metroid Prime 2 was comfortable and intuitive" I really need to give at this point. The analog attachment was really light. The wire was long enough. Moving, aiming, shooting, and turning took no -- zero -- conscious thought. The only problem I had was remembering which shoulder button scanned and which jumped. But I can't remember that very well on the GameCube either." and "And with the Metroid Prime demo, I was waving the controller all the hell over the place really really fast and the cursor was always exactly where I wanted it."

There's more at Shacknews (a nice summary), be warned though, the thread at Game-Age forums is big ass. I can't wait to have a shot on this controller...

[Kelegacy]

That's damn good feedback from someone who has actually held the controller.

Excitement +1.

[NoName]

Miyamoto mentioned that this demonstration version [port of Metroid 2 for GC] was created by developer Retro Studios in a matter of weeks, and it was being used to show game developers how easily a standard game design can be modified to use the Revolution's unique control methods.
Translated: Pleeease port games to our console too, even though we use a remote for a controller we can still play games.

Note: I love the new Nintendo controller, I just find that quote amusing.

[Reanimated]

Well that shaved off a little of my skepticism. Still though, I want to see a lineup, how third party games will work, and get my own hands on it.

[BigJonno]

As long as Nintendo make good on the teaser trailer's promise of waving the thing around like a sword, I'll be happy.

[Vandenh]

Impressive... can't wait to try it myself.

[Rakael]

I think I'm gonna loose my mind waiting to get my hands on this thing. I just hope the hype doesn't kill the experience.

[falak]

Translated: Pleeease port games to our console too, even though we use a remote for a controller we can still play games.But honestly, if the worst criticism it has is that at it's very worst, when it absolutely cannot be used with a certain game mechanic and a normal controller has to be used like the other two consoles, then Nintendo must be doing something right.

It's easy to use (apparently), but it's the software that's going to make it fun to use, so we'll see. I'm certainly looking forward to it though. :D

[Worldcrafter]

Well played score. An interesting post with informative responses by an informed person. I certainly can't wait to give the Revolution a try.

[bapenguin]

It's gonna be very interesting to see what they come up with for this bad boy.

[NoName]

I think I'm gonna loose my mind waiting to get my hands on this thing. I just hope the hype doesn't kill the experience.
I can understand the loosing my mind part. We have to wait at least a full year before this comes out on the market? Then again, even after the console comes out it should be awhile longer until it has more than one or two games that use the controller well.

[Roc Ingersol]

potential++;

[RMan]

That's cool, the only decent concern I have left is whether or not the controller is affected by obstruction by body parts, which may affect some game mechanics. Even if so, it's still, for me, the most significant piece of hardware I've seen in a very long time.

[Abednigo]

Oh my...

I was excited before, but now I can barely stand it. I'm excited too that the level of consumer excitement seems to be mostly positive (with a few naysayers, but that's expected). It's good to have Nintendo the subject of some positive news for a change. The next generation is going to be very different I think.

[Kelegacy]

That's cool, the only decent concern I have left is whether or not the controller is affected by obstruction by body parts, which may affect some game mechanics. Even if so, it's still, for me, the most significant piece of hardware I've seen in a very long time.

Doubt it. You mean things blocking the controller to television signal? The Wavebird functions through walls, so I'm sure this will work the same. It has the same kind of tech in it.

[Demo_Boy]

That's cool, the only decent concern I have left is whether or not the controller is affected by obstruction by body parts, which may affect some game mechanics.



What, are you planning of sticking it up your @55????

Do you rub your mouse around your groin area when you are playing fpses? I guess the RazorBoomslang could be a problem then.

What the hell mechanic could you possibly come up with where body parts would be in front of the controller? Ballet simulator???

[Dabombpizza]

Doubt it. You mean things blocking the controller to television signal? The Wavebird functions through walls, so I'm sure this will work the same. It has the same kind of tech in it.

If you noticed, there is something that looks like an IR sensor, not to mention the sensor on the TV, so I think obstructions are a valid concern.

With that said I cannot wait to get my hands on this console. I don't care if all it has are NES games and tech demos, I just want that damn controller. And I do not doubt the PC, MS, and Sony will be incorporating this tech in thier future consoles.

One thing that has not been addressed at all that seriously determines my eagerness to buy a Revolution is how much does it cost? Previously comments had indicated a $200 target, and if that target is hit I know I'm not going to be the only one jumping for joy, waving my controller and playing Goldeneye on my nextgen.

[Abednigo]

One thing that has not been addressed at all that seriously determines my eagerness to buy a Revolution is how much does it cost? Previously comments had indicated a $200 target, and if that target is hit I know I'm not going to be the only one jumping for joy, waving my controller and playing Goldeneye on my nextgen.

I'm guessing it will be $199. Wasn't that where the Gamecube started? With the PS3 and XBOX360 being $300 or more, that would be a great move for Nintendo to stick with the lower priced console. They certainly aren't going for the highest end hardware like MS and Sony are so their costs should be lower and keeping it at a low price at retail should be easy.

[RMan]

What the hell mechanic could you possibly come up with where body parts would be in front of the controller?
Well, there’s Boxing, Golf, Baseball, sword/whip mechanics, picking up and moving objects that may be behind you, and likely hundreds of other applications that developers using an ounce of IMAGINATION will come up with. Some developers may be interested in doing more than porting the latest shooter to the system, you know. Also, if obstruction is not a problem, many specialized shells become possible, just think how many systems they could sell with a decent baseball game and bat shell pack-in if the bat doesn’t obstruct a signal.

[Morratut]

I'm excited with this news. I can't wait to try it.

[MosBen]

For me it's all about the lineup. Personally, I couldn't get into the Cube because it was too much of a platform primarily for Nintendo's first party games. I like some, but not all, of the first party games, but it's just not enough to justify a console for me. Hopefully there will be lots of good stuff on the system and I'll decide that I just can't live without one.

[fitbabits]

Sadly it's going to take more than this to convince me that the Revolution controller is nothing more than Nintendo diversifying for the sake of it. The only way I'll buy a Revolution is if someone releases a more standard controller for it. Feel free to flame me all you like, but it's how I feel right now.

[TheKeck]

Hump A Duck!

[DaedalusFolly]

If you noticed, there is something that looks like an IR sensor, not to mention the sensor on the TV, so I think obstructions are a valid concern.

There definitely appears to be an IR sensor on the front of the remote. However, I've read in many places that the remote operates on bluetooth protocol so obstructions shouldnt be as big a problem as one would surmise. Another thing to note about the use of bluetooth is its relatively low power consumption (by design), which is encouraging.

[Scaryboy]

Sadly it's going to take more than this to convince me that the Revolution controller is nothing more than Nintendo diversifying for the sake of it. The only way I'll buy a Revolution is if someone releases a more standard controller for it. Feel free to flame me all you like, but it's how I feel right now.

It has four Gamecube ports on the side of it.
Nintendo have said that a standard controller shell will be available.

mmkay?

[pomeroy]

Sadly it's going to take more than this to convince me that the Revolution controller is nothing more than Nintendo diversifying for the sake of it. The only way I'll buy a Revolution is if someone releases a more standard controller for it. Feel free to flame me all you like, but it's how I feel right now.

Translation: I don't care how good the news is, I've decided that the Revolution cannot be good. Instead of trying something new, I will doggedly cling to the old.

[Abednigo]

Sadly it's going to take more than this to convince me that the Revolution controller is nothing more than Nintendo diversifying for the sake of it. The only way I'll buy a Revolution is if someone releases a more standard controller for it. Feel free to flame me all you like, but it's how I feel right now.

You'll get no flaming from me mister!!! :)

Like Scaryboy said, it will have GC controller ports. And they have said that they will have a shell that the new controller will fit in that looks more like a conventional controller.

[Opty]

One might theorize the IR on the remote is for the remote control functions, i.e. turning the console on and off, and there's an RF reciever that handles the depth calculations. But if that's the case, why's the IR window so big? Then maybe whatever non-IR technology they use to calc the depth likes having a window. But I can tell you this, it's not IR used for the depth. Nintendo knows how useless IR is after the GBC, so they won't be stupid enough to put it in their controller where precision and speed are key.

And by the way, lose (as in "I lose my keys everyday") only has one 'o'. Loose (as in "you shook the apple loose from the tree") has two. This is the one and only most common internet mispelling that really gets my goat and riles me up enough to mention it.

[Danin]

Sadly it's going to take more than this to convince me that the Revolution controller is nothing more than Nintendo diversifying for the sake of it. The only way I'll buy a Revolution is if someone releases a more standard controller for it. Feel free to flame me all you like, but it's how I feel right now.

... Thereby defeating the entire premise of the system?

[fitbabits]

... Thereby defeating the entire premise of the system?
Perhaps you could explain the entire premise of the system to me. Maybe I've missed something.

[fitbabits]

It has four Gamecube ports on the side of it.
Nintendo have said that a standard controller shell will be available.

mmkay?

mmkay! :) Thanks for that. I'm debating on whether or not to say that I was never a fan of the Game Cube controller to begin with! Let me think...

[Dabombpizza]

Perhaps you could explain the entire premise of the system to me. Maybe I've missed something.

Umm...a REVOLUTION in thinking. It really should be called Inovation. But by going back to a standard controller you are succesfully going back to the tired old formula.

[Bone]

From the article:
One main thing his answers seem to suggest is that the movements required to properly use the controller won't be on the order of the wild sword-slashings shown in the Revolution TGS teaser video. It seems that despite the unique interface, most of the time it is still meant to be held in one's lap or however else one operates a regular controller.
That's too bad. I was hoping to stand in front of my TV in the dark, gesticulating like a madman.

[RMan]

One might theorize the IR on the remote is for the remote control functions, i.e. turning the console on and off, and there's an RF reciever that handles the depth calculations.
Yea, I guess that's possible, this technology really isn't my thing, but it seems like if you have the RF you'd just use that for everything and wouldn't need to have the IR at all. I think I’ve heard Nintendo say it was a full positional and 360 degree controller, and if they said that (and not a 3rd party) then it would be a lie if the IR was required, since just turning the thing around backwards would make it not work. For now I’m leaning towards it working fine, but even if in the end I have to buy additional relays/sensors placed strategically around me, I’d still do it to get the full range of the controller. Although not the norm, I think a bunch of other gamers would pay extra too (look how many of those $100 dance mats sell, and they’re for just one game), but I honestly don’t think that’ll be necessary, but I’d love to hear a confirmation from someone on the subject.

[fitbabits]

Translation: I don't care how good the news is, I've decided that the Revolution cannot be good. Instead of trying something new, I will doggedly cling to the old.

Actually, translation:

Sadly it's going to take more than this to convince me that the Revolution controller is nothing more than Nintendo diversifying for the sake of it. The only way I'll buy a Revolution is if someone releases a more standard controller for it.

As you'll see from the above, I have yet to make a final determination on whether or not the Revolution will be good. I shall reserve my judgement until it's released and I have had some hands-on time with the controller and the console - not just with my wee fella.

[fitbabits]

Umm...a REVOLUTION in thinking. It really should be called Inovation. But by going back to a standard controller you are succesfully going back to the tired old formula.

Tired? Old? So now that Nintendo have released details of their new controller, the Sony Dual Shock and Microsoft Controller S are old and tired? Am I understanding you correctly?

[Heretic Machine]

As you'll see from the above, I have yet to make a final determination on whether or not the Revolution will be good. I shall reserve my judgement until it's released and I have had some hands-on time with the controller and the console - not just with my wee fella.

Umm.... no that's not what you said. What you said is that until they MAKE a more STANDARD controller for it, you'll not be buying it. Which again, defeats the entire premise of the console, which is to provide and propogate a new and innovative way to control games. Thus far, it seems they have succeeded.

But if you want to tool around with the 360 for seven years, be my guest.

[Mithridates]

Well, the Microsoft Controller S and the Sony Dual Shock aren't necessarily 'old and tired.' But gaming has been running on a very similar premise for controllers for a while now. Just added more buttons and a different d-pad. It seems to me that the new Xbox and Sony controllers are just shiny new versions of the old ones, and in that way they are 'old and tired.' I'm mentally shrugging right now. I'll still probably get a 360, but the possibility of the Revolution controller to branch off in a different direction intrigues me. The only real break in consoles away from the standard controller-type has been joysticks... and those haven't really been good to use outside of flight sims...

[fitbabits]

Umm.... no that's not what you said. What you said is that until they MAKE a more STANDARD controller for it, you'll not be buying it. Which again, defeats the entire premise of the console, which is to provide and propogate a new and innovative way to control games. Thus far, it seems they have succeeded.

But if you want to tool around with the 360 for seven years, be my guest.

Point taken. I guess what I mean is that I will defer my decision on whether or not I buy a Revolution until I've had some hands-on time with it. I'm willing to give it every chance upon release, but I have to say again that I'm not entirely convinced that Nintendo are on the right track.

[Dabombpizza]

Tired? Old? So now that Nintendo have released details of their new controller, the Sony Dual Shock and Microsoft Controller S are old and tired? Am I understanding you correctly?

They are nothing new. In fact, neither the XBOX360 nor the PS3 actually offer anything new. Better graphics, yes. A centralization of multimedia devices, yes. But as far as inovation in how a game should be interacted with, absolutely not. I'm bored of controllers, that's why I went back to the PC. Now I'm bored with the mouse. I even tried a P5 glove because I want a new way to EXPERIENCE the game.

Sony comes close with the EyeToy, but inovation has compltely dissapeared in the Sony/MS market. Unless you feel otherwise. And if you do, please correct me.

[Kelegacy]

Umm.... no that's not what you said. What you said is that until they MAKE a more STANDARD controller for it, you'll not be buying it. Which again, defeats the entire premise of the console, which is to provide and propogate a new and innovative way to control games. Thus far, it seems they have succeeded.

But if you want to tool around with the 360 for seven years, be my guest.

7 years? How about 4...if that. Life cycles are getting shorter, with companies jumping the gun to beat out their rivals. Stupid fucking companies.

And fitbabits, I dont think any company is on the right track right now. Nintendo are trying something different, which I can at least applaud their balls. Microsoft scares me with the things it stands for...the system, for me, is the equivalent of MTV, trying to be hip and cool, with bling bling and riding on dubs. Sony is like Nick at Night, showing repeats of all the cool shows from 20 years ago, but always reruns...nothing truly different. Nintendo is like that Japanese gameshow on Spike Tv, Total Extreme Challenge or something. Weird and irreverant, but you watch because it intrigues you with its absurdity.

The only game system I know of that stands for the things I crave is the CackenBawls. I have played with it every night for the past decade without fail.

[fitbabits]

They are nothing new. In fact, neither the XBOX360 nor the PS3 actually offer anything new. Better graphics, yes. A centralization of multimedia devices, yes. But as far as inovation in how a game should be interacted with, absolutely not. I'm bored of controllers, that's why I went back to the PC. Now I'm bored with the mouse. I even tried a P3 glove because I want a new way to EXPERIENCE the game.

Sony comes close with the EyeToy, but inovation has compltely dissapeared in the Sony/MS market. Unless you feel otherwise. And if you do, please correct me.
No correction is neccessary - it's all about personal preference. I really can see where you are coming from, but I'm just not there yet. Will I ever be there? Who knows, but I've been playing games for over 25 years now and I've yet to get bored with the supposed lack of innovation in controllers.

I'm not about to accuse the people who are excited about the Revolution controller of being weirdos or of turning their back on convention, so why I am being taken to task for stating my own personal preference?

I keep thinking of the fishing rod controller I had for my Dreamcast. Brings a tear to my eye.

[Dabombpizza]

Here's a link from PA on the whole invoation thing. http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html

[HalLoco]

Well hot damn, this is a great resource of information. Really answers a lot of the doubt that's out there, including some of my own.

[rein]

let me start by saying I love the Nintendo controller and they are getting my $200-$250 bucks for at least trying something new.

The comments about controllers never really changing are crap. I started home consoles with a damn joystick and one red button and a track ball. The next generation of consoles brought a joystick with a keypad and shoulder buttons. Moving forward I got analog sticks and rumble features. The console industry is only about 25 years old, how quick do you guys really want to see things change? It's like saying cars have not evolved because they still use steering wheels.

[TheKeck]

Here's a link from PA on the whole invoation thing. http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html

Didn't I have this conversation with some other people yesterday? :cool:

[fitbabits]

The comments about controllers never really changing are crap. I started home consoles with a damn joystick and one red button and a track ball. The next generation of consoles brought a joystick with a keypad and shoulder buttons. Moving forward I got analog sticks and rumble features. The console industry is only about 25 years old, how quick do you guys really want to see things change? It's like saying cars have not evolved because they still use steering wheels.

Nyah nyah, they're still old and tired, though, right? :rolleyes:

[TheKeck]

Nyah nyah, they're still old and tired, though, right? :rolleyes:

Just for the record, I am old and tired. (At least I feel that way.)

[MadHiro]

The next-gen controllers for the PS3 and the X-Box 360 are basically the same format as the controller for the SNES. They added analog joysticks to it, but any change made to the design has only been strapping on extra bits to the original. So, their state of the art controller is a design that is fifteen years old. And considering the rate of innovation and progress in all other areas of the industry, such as in graphics, the fact that input has been left to stagnate for so long is telling.

Don't get me wrong. As excited as I am by the new controller, I'm equally worried. But in my experiance, the radical changes are often the ones that give the best results.

[Wonka]

Well this controller certainly oozes a lot of potential.

But what is to keep Sony and MS from just releasing their own magic wand type peripheral?

A friend of mine was telling me that he already owned a mouse (for TVs) that worked on nearly identical principles. Basically a mouse that you could use as a remote control wand a lot like this thing. So it seems that the most unique thing about this is probably already licensable by whomever wants to pay.

So if its wildly successful, wouldn't the competition just release a wireless peripheral?

[Abednigo]

It's most certain that MS and Sony got cracking on a similar device immediately after Nintendo's announcement. For that guy from MS to come out and give Nintendo props for it, they definitely noticed. But since there are apparently more (and bigger) details that haven't been revealed yet about the Revolution, we probably won't see any similar devices from the competition until after the Revolution is released. I can't imagine that Nintendo would make it this easy for MS and Sony to copy them. There's more that we haven't seen yet.

[TheKeck]

So if its wildly successful, wouldn't the competition just release a wireless peripheral?

Well, I guess the console wars are ov...... damn. :p

[Dabombpizza]

So if its wildly successful, wouldn't the competition just release a wireless peripheral?

Of course! That's the point! Mac released the mouse, IBMCompatible copied. Nintendo invented the D-Pad, shoulder buttons, analog stick (and shoulder buttons?), and everyone else followed. *** brought out online service that works. Sony gave us 3D graphics for cheap (on a cd).

I would love to see MS and Sony take this technology and turn it into something standardized on thier consoles, or even better inovate something so that Nintendo can make it standard. It just seems recently that the gaming industry has been trying to hit that core croud, the mtv/casual gamer crowd. And in doing so have lost the inovation of games, repeating the same things over and over again. How many games entitled "Halo 2 killers" are there going to be in this next gen? You can almost compare it to the Pop-music industry. Radio sucks, the reason why is each station is trying to get all the listeners and falling to the lowest common denominator which always spells out mediocraty. Instead of inovating these industries are refining (with a few gems that pop out here and there).

Well, I've said too much with too little facts. I feel the flames nearby....

[Demo_Boy]

... since there are apparently more (and bigger) details that haven't been revealed yet about the Revolution, ...

I think the controller is the big detail.

What else could there be?

"It's portable!!" - uh no.
"It's got bobs of CPUs!" - mkay.
"It links up with other revolutions to dominate the world!" - bleh
"It can be left to upsample your standard DVDs to HD, and it stores the new avi on teh inteernet!" - I don't think so.

"It can play the Killzone 2 movie that was shown at E3!"
WHOAH, now thats a possibility! My friends will drool!

Really what could be bigger than mouse precision from a couch?

[Abednigo]

I think the controller is the big detail.

What else could there be?

"It's portable!!" - uh no.
"It's got bobs of CPUs!" - mkay.
"It links up with other revolutions to dominate the world!" - bleh
"It can be left to upsample your standard DVDs to HD, and it stores the new avi on teh inteernet!" - I don't think so.

"It can play the Killzone 2 movie that was shown at E3!"
WHOAH, now thats a possibility! My friends will drool!

Really what could be bigger than mouse precision from a couch?

There was that article a few days ago where a guy from Nintendo in Europe said there are some big details about the Revolution that have yet to be revealed, and that they are very exciting.

The controller is definitely a big detail, but apparently there are more to come. I didn't say it, they did.

[MadHiro]

I think the controller is the big detail.

What else could there be?

"It's portable!!" - uh no.
"It's got bobs of CPUs!" - mkay.
"It links up with other revolutions to dominate the world!" - bleh
"It can be left to upsample your standard DVDs to HD, and it stores the new avi on teh inteernet!" - I don't think so.

"It can play the Killzone 2 movie that was shown at E3!"
WHOAH, now thats a possibility! My friends will drool!

Really what could be bigger than mouse precision from a couch?

See, that is just it. If it were something that a random forum monkey could guess, it wouldn't be much of a secret, would it?

[HalLoco]

I think the controller is the big detail.

What else could there be?

"It's portable!!" - uh no.
"It's got bobs of CPUs!" - mkay.
"It links up with other revolutions to dominate the world!" - bleh
"It can be left to upsample your standard DVDs to HD, and it stores the new avi on teh inteernet!" - I don't think so.

"It can play the Killzone 2 movie that was shown at E3!"
WHOAH, now thats a possibility! My friends will drool!

Really what could be bigger than mouse precision from a couch?
You forgot that it might slice & dice, and make dozens of julien fries! :D

[TheKeck]

I think the controller is the big detail.

What else could there be?

"It's portable!!" - uh no.
...
Really what could be bigger than mouse precision from a couch?

That's good logic, "well, I can't think of anything interesting or important that could possibly be revealed, so obviously there is nothing."

Did you predict the new controller? What makes you think anything else they might reveal will be predictable? I have no idea if they will or not, but I contest that you have no idea either.

[TheKeck]

See, that is just it. If it were something that a random forum monkey could guess, it wouldn't be much of a secret, would it?

Aww crap, beat me to the punch. :(

[bapenguin]

What I don't get is this....seriously the question I pose to you guys is this:

"Are you really getting tired of playing video games in their current form? Are you no longer having FUN playing games?"

That's what it sounds like from a lot of people.

I don't see the Revolution as CHANGING the gaming market, I see it as adding to it.

[TheKeck]

What I don't get is this....seriously the question I pose to you guys is this:

"Are you really getting tired of playing video games in their current form? Are you no longer having FUN playing games?"

That's what it sounds like from a lot of people.

I don't see the Revolution as CHANGING the gaming market, I see it as adding to it.

Well, personally, I have been pretty much an exclusive PC gamer for many years now. I own none of the current generation consoles; the last one I played was N64, and that was when I still lived at home. This Revolution announcement is the first thing that has really gotten me thinking about the possibility of buying a console again.

I guess I didn't exactly answer your question directly, but that's how things are for me.

[Zeal]

This is all well and good, but can we see some actual...oh I don't know, games?

[Demo_Boy]

To bap:
I seriously am not able to have fun playing FPSes on consoles right now because of the controller. Playing with molasses controls drives me back to the PC.

[fitbabits]

What I don't get is this....seriously the question I pose to you guys is this:

"Are you really getting tired of playing video games in their current form? Are you no longer having FUN playing games?"

That's what it sounds like from a lot of people.

I don't see the Revolution as CHANGING the gaming market, I see it as adding to it.
Thank you, bapenguin, for posing the question that was bouncing unformed round my brain! :)

It does sound to me like a lot of people have decided that change is now absolutely needed and that games are no longer as fun as they were one week ago.

[Liquidize105]

I think the answer is that game will be more fun. FPS will finally play intuitively on the console.

[TheKeck]

I think the answer is that game will be more fun. FPS will finally play intuitively on the console.

Kind of off topic, but I was just thinking again about those two articles posted yesterday, (or at least the more negative one), about the Revolution. Particularly where the guy talks about the controller being good for simple games, but would fall apart for "complicated" games like FPS, racing, etc.

All I hear (and agree with) is how this might actually make a FPS experience viable on the console, for those of us that like mouse/keyboard.

[DriveALW]

Now that we know so much more about this controller, does anyone think that the reason Nintendo down-played HD support might be because they don't feel this controller will work as well in a 16x9 setup? I'm sure it could cover the whole screen, but what happens when a developer has to make a game that not only *visually* can support 4x3 or 16x9, but also needs to have two different control setups for the two TV sizes? Or what about a user with a widescreen TV playing an online game against a user with a conventional screen? I'm not trying to come up with potential problems for the controller, which I'm very excited about, but I think this may be the ulterior motive for Nintendo's eschewing HD this generation.

[Stormwatcher]

I think most people are shooting around lots of guesses. But If the Wired guy is not lying, than the revolution's control will be as great as I have imagined after the announcement.

To those who don't want to play games with it, well, it is your loss. If you don't want to interact with games in a more intuitive and less arbitrary way, your problem. Good for you. I couldn't care less.

Anyway, all evidence seems to point (ahahah) that the damn thing will work really well, and it won't be limited to simple gimmicky gameplay tricks. You will actually be able to perform complex gaming stuff like circle strafing without much fuzz.

thing is, gamepads are absurdly arbitrary and abstract. Us hardcore gamers now the "code", but it has become a great barrier for people who would like to play games but aren't addicts like us. My in-laws love to play Mario Kart, but they usually get confused by the plethora of buttons. They are intelligent people, they can drive very well (and cars have sticks in here). With a wand like in the rev, it will be very simple to play.

I think it has something for everyone. Like the DS.

[fitbabits]

To those who don't want to play games with it, well, it is your loss. If you don't want to interact with games in a more intuitive and less arbitrary way, your problem. Good for you. I couldn't care less.
And to those of you who want to interact with games using a modified remote control, all the while looking like an unwanted extra from a David Blaine show, I say go for it! Different strokes for different folks.

[thecrazyd]

And to those of you who want to interact with games using a modified remote control, all the while looking like an unwanted extra from a David Blaine show, I say go for it! Different strokes for different folks.
And those of us who want to be ludite pricks and flame anything that is slightly different, then go for it!

[fitbabits]

And those of us who want to be ludite pricks and flame anything that is slightly different, then go for it!

Wait, was this aimed at me? If so then you clearly didn't detect the sarcasm in my post.

[Zeal]

Someone said you actually have to sit somekind of motion sensor displays on your TV. Are we talking about actual pieces of hardware that sit at the top ends of your TV or what? I have a 60" 16:9 HD set and I don't want to sit stupid motion sensors all over my TV.

What's the deal.

And those of us who want to be ludite pricks and flame anything that is slightly different, then go for it!

Are you Nintendo's little Bitch Boy Crusader or what? Every single thread where I see someone post something negative about the Revolution controller, you immediately show up and bash them.

My new name for you is Captain Nintendo.

[Bone]

Mac released the mouse, IBMCompatible copied.
Actually, the correct chain of most things Macintosh (including the mouse, icons, and desktop metaphor) goes: they were first stolen from Xerox PARC by Apple before being stolen in turn by Microsoft.

[TheKeck]

My new name for you is Captain Nintendo.

Oooooooh, are we naming people now?!!!! :D I wanna play.

My new name for you is Nintendo Crusader Defender.

[TheKeck]

Actually, the correct chain of most things Macintosh (including the mouse, icons, and desktop metaphor) goes: they were first stolen from Xerox PARC by Apple before being stolen in turn by Microsoft.

Good point, you haven't by any chance seen the same computing history videos I did in CS 404, have you?

[MadHiro]

Oooooooh, are we naming people now?!!!! :D I wanna play.

My new name for you is Nintendo Crusader Defender.

Funny. My name for him was Choad Warrior. As they say, different strokes.

[Kelegacy]

What I don't get is this....seriously the question I pose to you guys is this:

"Are you really getting tired of playing video games in their current form? Are you no longer having FUN playing games?"

That's what it sounds like from a lot of people.

I don't see the Revolution as CHANGING the gaming market, I see it as adding to it.

Nope, I’m still having as much fun as ever, but this is a change of pace, a breath of fresh air. This doesn’t look to eliminate gamepads, nor are the people here that are excited about the Nintendo change anti-gamepad. Nintendo is attempting something different, which is a relief. I could make some weird analogies about eating steak my whole life and loving it, but then I have a primerib portion and suddenly I like the change of pace, but I wont. No one knows how this controller will turn out, but an attempt at altering traditional gameplay should excite everyone except the truly slothful, who cant even be bothered to move a wand up and down from their couch. I’m not tired of traditional gaming, but it’s truly nice to see something dip its brush in traditional gaming and paint a whole new picture.

You are absolutely correct about this adding to the gaming market. Despite the name, Nintendo isnt looking to revolutionize gaming with this one change. It is a big step, though, in renovating something that has basically stayed the same for the past 30 years.

And crazyd, I can’t get enough of your irreverent posts! I never tire of the Luddite labeling. Priceless :)

[Mooninaut]

"Are you really getting tired of playing video games in their current form? Are you no longer having FUN playing games?"
That's a very good question. But the question is not about current games, it's about the next generation of games. Microsoft and Sony's new platforms are very, very similar to their current platforms, with mostly cosmetic changes. Their new controllers are almost identical to their old ones. Is that a problem? You tell me.

Gaming doesn't stand still. Every prior generation of console has had something brand new, that the previous generation didn't. What does Microsoft have? They took out the hard drive. That's new. What does Sony have? You can hook up two HDTVs to one console. If most people don't even own one HDTV, what does it matter? What does Nintendo have? A new control scheme never before seen in a major console, offering true six-axis control for the very first time in a mass-market device? That's a big step forward, when the other two players are content with standing still.

This isn't about whether we're not having fun any more, it's whether we will continue to have fun in new ways. I don't think anyone wants gaming to stagnate, to offer the same-old same-old year after year. The PS3 and the Xbox 360 seem to be leading in that direction.

I don't see the Revolution as CHANGING the gaming market, I see it as adding to it.
Adding to something is a change, isn't it? Bringing new people into the gaming market (if Nintendo can pull it off) will change the kinds of games that sell, which will change the kinds of games that companies make and publish. Even if they don't greatly increase their demographic appeal, the new controller will let people make games that wouldn't previously been practical, which will change the market in other ways.

[Bone]

Good point, you haven't by any chance seen the same computing history videos I did in CS 404, have you?
Nah, I just remembered it going something like that and asked my friend Google ;)



To Zeal:
Are you Nintendo's little Bitch Boy Anti-Crusader or what? Every single thread where I see someone post something positive about the Revolution controller, you immediately show up and bash them.
Corrected by Bone for teh win.

[fitbabits]

Oooooooh, are we naming people now?!!!! :D I wanna play.
thecrazyd started it by calling me a prick! :D

[RMan]

"Are you really getting tired of playing video games in their current form? Are you no longer having FUN playing games?"
Yes to first question, no to second. The gap between having less fun and having no fun is pretty large, so for me I am having less fun with newer games. Even without the Revolution I'd buy one of the others, possibly both, and still buy games, but I'd buy less games as time went on. I think the love the Revolution is getting and the stuff that seems like fanboyism is that many players are looking at all three systems and although they’re all mostly promises right now (360 being most “real”) the promise for the 360 and PS3 are PRECISELY what we got last generation, and although it might help games, it’s completely expected and just not worth getting excited about for many gamers like myself. What the Revolution promises is truly different, truly exciting, and at a time when the “been there, done that” feeling is the strongest it has ever been. I think it’s this dramatic difference that’s also polarizing people (seeming more like fanboys), it certainly is for me.

I think the real question is whether or not this will make games more fun. I mean, asking if you’re really displeased about the current systems is important, but not remotely as important as how the latest improvement will make it better (I mean, if you’re trying to evaluate said improvement). If I ask for some chocolate cake, and you want to know why I’m interested in chocolate cake, your questions should not be “So why are you seemingly uninterested in bread? Do you hate bread now?”.

[Major Dan]

For awhile I thought all I would get for next gen was the 360 and the PSP. But now I have interest in the Revolution. The controller has some great potential to be fun!! If Nintendo can keep it around $200 I will probably pick one up. So then I will be back to owning three consoles. The 360, PSP and Revolution. I am just not interested in the PS3 right now. I prefer the MS controller over the Sony ones and I really like the PSP, but it costs just as much as a home console so I don't think I could afford both anyway. Sony may have hurt themselves there by splitting their market up, escpecially at the current prices. Damn, Burnout Legends cost $50, that is too much for a handheld game, although it is a good game and I really like having Burnout portable.

[TheKeck]

thecrazyd started it by calling me a prick! :D

Tsk tsk tsk crazyd, prick is such a negative new name. We're going for a super hero sounding theme here. ;)

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Someone said you actually have to sit somekind of motion sensor displays on your TV. Are we talking about actual pieces of hardware that sit at the top ends of your TV or what? I have a 60" 16:9 HD set and I don't want to sit stupid motion sensors all over my TV.

What's the deal.



Are you Nintendo's little Bitch Boy Crusader or what? Every single thread where I see someone post something negative about the Revolution controller, you immediately show up and bash them.

My new name for you is Captain Nintendo.


You place two little sensors by your TV, one on each side. Nintendo showed this at TGS, and they said that it doesn't matter what type of TV you have.

I don't know why I bother answering you though, since you are obviously too lazy to actually read an article before trolling.

I have yet to see a Revolution thread where you don't pop in and start trolling against it. Multiple times. My guess is you want a larger post count, and you've decided to get it while adding nothing to the conversation. I've also seen you in many Xbox 360 threads wetting yourself over the slightest thing, so calling you a fanboy would be an obvious move on my part.

I hereby dub you Cranky McPissyPants

[Heretic Machine]

Look, right now there are two sides. One side supporting the PS3/360 with the argument of, "Gaming is fine the way it is, change is stupid!" The other being the Revolution fanboys, "Gaming sucks! It needs to change or die!"

Both of these views are stupid. I think there are serious problems with the 360, and I generally have issues with Sony. I like the Revolution's concept, and that's why I'm supporting it. But if the 360 were more like what Microsoft had been promising, I'd still be throwing my support behind it as well. As it stands, Nintendo has won me over.

I don't think gaming is stale, and I don't think that it has to change. I also don't think that change is a bad thing, it adds to the entire hobby of gaming, and that can only be a good thing.

[Zeal]

You place two little sensors by your TV, one on each side. Nintendo showed this at TGS, and they said that it doesn't matter what type of TV you have.

I don't know why I bother answering you though, since you are obviously too lazy to actually read an article before trolling.

I have yet to see a Revolution thread where you don't pop in and start trolling against it. Multiple times. My guess is you want a larger post count, and you've decided to get it while adding nothing to the conversation. I've also seen you in many Xbox 360 threads wetting yourself over the slightest thing, so calling you a fanboy would be an obvious move on my part.

I hereby dub you Cranky McPissyPants

Oh, you mean besides the threads where I'm slamming the hell outta Microsoft for their absurd 360 launch strategy, right? Must have missed those.

The design of the console itself is also inherently flawed.

[Rakael]

This is all getting way out of hand. If fitbabits doesn't want to use the new wand, or would rather wait and see (as I have gathered through his posts), then that is his decision. Trust me, there will be many more that share his line of thought. Does this make them wrong? Hell no. Everyone has a right to decide what game system they wish to play with.

I'm getting pretty tired of everyone getting flamed for their opinons. I'm not saying everyone at EA should clasp hands and skip through a fucking meadow, but for the love of god the flaming is starting to grate on my nerves. Those who are excited about the Revolution are getting flamed for being suckered in by the new gimick, and those who don't are getting flamed in turn for being old, prudish bastards.

Like I said, I'm no fucking hippie. I love a good "debate" as much as the next guy, but when it turns into childish bullshit it makes me want to just kick puppies.

[thecrazyd]

thecrazyd started it by calling me a prick! :D
You started it by being a prick. (I am kidding by the way. But your refusal to use an alternate controller because it is different does sort of make you a ludite)

And Zeal, how come every single thread where I see someone post something positive about the Revolution controller, you immediately show up and bash them? I am naming you EvAvs Super Troll.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Oh, you mean besides the threads where I'm slamming the hell outta Microsoft for their absurd 360 launch strategy, right? Must have missed those.


I recall seeing you in many threads praising the 360, but perhaps that was someone else and I am mistaken. I'll investigate later. Either way, the rest of my post still stands. You've been in every Revolution thread, always trolling and always starting a huge argument.


Edit:

Rakael - Leave the puppies out of this! :mad:

[Zeal]

And Zeal, how come every single thread where I see someone post something positive about the Revolution controller, you immediately show up and bash them? I am naming you EvAvs Super Troll.

Because people's idea of how the controller will be used is nothing more than fantasy. Until Nintendo has actually shown first and third party games being used with the controller, it is a matter of speculation. Everyone has their own ideas of how the thing will be used.

I can understand Nintendo fans wanting to hype the hell outta the new controller, but until there's actual games to discuss with it, it's just a damn controller.

[fitbabits]

You started it by being a prick. (I am kidding by the way. But your refusal to use an alternate controller because it is different does sort of make you a ludite)
Fine then, you steaming pile of liquid shite. (I'm kidding, by the way, but your refusal to at least understand that it's my choice does paint you as an intolerant twat).

[TheKeck]

This is all getting way out of hand. If fitbabits doesn't want to use the new wand, or would rather wait and see (as I have gathered through his posts), then that is his decision. Trust me, there will be many more that share his line of thought. Does this make them wrong? Hell no. Everyone has a right to decide what game system they wish to play with.

I'm getting pretty tired of everyone getting flamed for their opinons. I'm not saying everyone at EA should clasp hands and skip through a fucking meadow, but for the love of god the flaming is starting to grate on my nerves. Those who are excited about the Revolution are getting flamed for being suckered in by the new gimick, and those who don't are getting flamed in turn for being old, prudish bastards.

Like I said, I'm no fucking hippie. I love a good "debate" as much as the next guy, but when it turns into childish bullshit it makes me want to just kick puppies.

[Blatant Sarcasm]Oh Rakael, you stupid idiot, you're so stupid with your posts. I hate you and everything you stand for. Why don't you quit being such a peachmaker fanboy?

I'm naming you Commander Love One Another[/Blatant Sarcasm]

[Rakael]

Yaaay! I'm a potsmoking hippie! Now gimme my pot or the puppies get it again!

[thecrazyd]

Fine then, you steaming pile of liquid shite. (I'm kidding, by the way, but your refusal to at least understand that it's my choice does paint you as an intolerant twat).
I understand it is your choice, but choosing ignorance, and refusing to try new is generally a bad choice.

[TheKeck]

Because people's idea of how the controller will be used is nothing more than fantasy. Until Nintendo has actually shown first and third party games being used with the controller, it is a matter of speculation. Everyone has their own ideas of how the thing will be used.

I can understand Nintendo fans wanting to hype the hell outta the new controller, but until there's actual games to discuss with it, it's just a damn controller.

Did you even READ the post that started this thread??? It was impressions of a guy who HAS used the thing in an honest-to-goodness-real-life-VIDEO-GAME! Imagine that. :rolleyes:

[fitbabits]

I understand it is your choice, but choosing ignorance, and refusing to try new is generally a bad choice.
I'm not refusing anything! I've already said that I'm willing to try it when it's released. My concern is that I'm not convinced it will work!

Must dash, I just spotted Rakael chasing some puppies. :rolleyes:

[Harlan Hoyt]

Zeal, did you read the article linked? This nonsense about "waiting until there are games" is absurd. The console isn't even done yet, of course there aren't any games at the moment. What we have here is something folks like to call "proof of concept." Look at that for a minute, let it roll around in your mouth, savor the aroma and ask yourself: "This guy from Wired says it works exactly like Nintendo says it does. Why do I question that?" What is it? Is it Nintendo's long and storied history of releasing incomplete, poorly polished games? Is it their legendary status in the industry of poorly designed and uncomfortable controllers? Or is it just that you're cloaking yourself in reserved, conservative judgment to mask the fact that you're just an idiot?

I'm not saying everyone at EA should clasp hands and skip through a fucking meadow.

I AM saying that! C'mon, guys, it'll be fun! We'll get some fried chicken and lemonade and run around together, singing that fucking Coke song. Now we just need to find a field we can all meet in ... Kansas, maybe? It's kind of in the middle for everybody.

[Stormwatcher]

Zeal is a big ugly troll.
The Wired guy described the exact experience of playing with the wand. And he used beta hardware with demos. That means that most probably, the end product and the games will be EVEN more polished, easy and fun.

This is just the DS thing again. When has Nintendo EVER failed to offer outstanding games? All the DS naysayers are eating their words now. The thing is a huge sucess, and if nintendo keeps its usual (post-virtual boy :) quality work up, there is no reason to think that the Revolution will be crap. No other company has so much experience in making games and machines for gaming.

BTW, I have no problems with other consoles or console makers. I'm a gamer first, screw the brands.

[Abednigo]

This debate has become tiresome...

[fitbabits]

...C'mon, guys, it'll be fun! We'll get some fried chicken and lemonade and run around together, singing that fucking Coke song. Now we just need to find a field we can all meet in ... Kansas, maybe? It's kind of in the middle for everybody.
I'm a vegetarian, so unless y'all are willing to throw some Boca burgers on the bar-b-q, you can count me out. I'll still hold hands and sing, though!

[Zeal]

Of course I read what he said. Him playing beta software has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I stated that Nintendo fans who hype the controller (who haven't even used it, of course) are doing so on blind faith. Until everyone here actually gets a chance to try the controller for themselves on some ACTUAL games, it's just hype and speculation.

I just don't see any way to argue this, and it isn't trolling. The product must be out for people to actually experience it.

[TheKeck]

I AM saying that! C'mon, guys, it'll be fun! We'll get some fried chicken and lemonade and run around together, singing that fucking Coke song. Now we just need to find a field we can all meet in ... Kansas, maybe? It's kind of in the middle for everybody.

I'm in.

additional characters to validate the existence of my post

[thecrazyd]

I'm not refusing anything! I've already said that I'm willing to try it when it's released. My concern is that I'm not convinced it will work!

Must dash, I just spotted Rakael chasing some puppies. :rolleyes:
The only way I'll buy a Revolution is if someone releases a more standard controller for it. Feel free to flame me all you like, but it's how I feel right now.
I'm just sayin...

[Abednigo]

I stated that Nintendo fans who hype the controller (who haven't even used it, of course) are doing so on blind faith.

Sounds a lot like what MS and Sony people do too. It's part of being excited! How many real games have we seen for those systems, and how many people who are hyping them have actually played them? That's a serious question, cause I have no idea. There is A LOT of blind faith and devotion to this next generation.

[MadHiro]

Of course I read what he said. Him playing beta software has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I stated that Nintendo fans who hype the controller (who haven't even used it, of course) are doing so on blind faith. Until everyone here actually gets a chance to try the controller for themselves on some ACTUAL games, it's just hype and speculation.

I just don't see any way to argue this, and it isn't trolling. The product must be out for people to actually experience it.

No, we're hyping it based on the written experiances of those that have used it. Blind faith doesn't enter into it. The first I heard of this, I was terrified. No faith whatsoever. Then I read hands on accounts. People who have used the controller. And based on their accounts, I now have -educated faith-, firmly rooted in reality.

Must everyone personally experiance everything for something to be changed from blind faith to whatever else there is? In that case, why do you read articles? Why are you commenting on this at all?

[TheKeck]

I'm just sayin...

BURN!!!!!!

(Nothing but love, fitbabits)

[Stupid Fat Hobbit]

I stated that Nintendo fans who hype the controller (who haven't even used it, of course) are doing so on blind faith.

If by "blind faith", you meant "multiple eyewitness accounts from people who have had hands-on experience with the actual hardware, running proof-of-concept demos", then I agree completely.

Edit: beaten to it. Damn my slow typing.

[fitbabits]

I'm just sayin...

And I'm just sayin'...

I guess what I mean is that I will defer my decision on whether or not I buy a Revolution until I've had some hands-on time with it. I'm willing to give it every chance upon release, but I have to say again that I'm not entirely convinced that Nintendo are on the right track.

[MadHiro]

And I'm just sayin'...
I rather think the point is is that you aren't just sayin'. You are also sayin' other things, such as that which was quoted.

[Zurik]

Call me when we're not at least a year away from the Revolution being released, and there's a chance someone other than magazine editors to try out this technology. Rushing judgement either way is getting nowhere fast.

[TheKeck]

And I'm just sayin'...

Guy makes a statement.
People call him on it.
Unlike 99% of people, guy considers people's feedback and revises original statement.
We continue to criticize him for his original statement.

Well, I feel like a dick.

[fitbabits]

I rather think the point is is that you aren't just sayin'. You are also sayin' other things, such as that which was quoted.
For the love of Jesus! Look, I corrected myself and re-stated my point, what more do you expect from me? :mad:

[MadHiro]

For the love of Jesus! Look, I corrected myself and re-stated my point, what more do you expect from me? :mad:
A dinner, a night on the town, a full body massage and a phone call the next day.

What, is that too much to ask?

[fitbabits]

A dinner, a night on the town, a full body massage and a phone call the next day.

What, is that too much to ask?
You have two chances, none and fuck all.

[bapenguin]

Adding to something is a change, isn't it? Bringing new people into the gaming market (if Nintendo can pull it off) will change the kinds of games that sell, which will change the kinds of games that companies make and publish. Even if they don't greatly increase their demographic appeal, the new controller will let people make games that wouldn't previously been practical, which will change the market in other ways.

No, changing the gaming market would be having Nintendo's competitor's move away from their current form of gaming and mimicking Nintendo. I don't see that happening. sure, there will be DIFFERENT stuff available, but it's not changing what's out there. There's still a HUGE market for the "Madden" gamer.

And on the little sensor, I hope they work something out for front projection screens...or i'm going to be very dissapointed.

[MadHiro]

No, changing the gaming market would be having Nintendo's competitor's move away from their current form of gaming and mimicking Nintendo. I don't see that happening. sure, there will be DIFFERENT stuff available, but it's not changing what's out there. There's still a HUGE market for the "Madden" gamer.

And on the little sensor, I hope they work something out for front projection screens...or i'm going to be very dissapointed.
I think what they meant was that they are changing what is out there by themselves putting new stuff out there. It being that they are a part of the market, anything they do changes the market.

[Kelegacy]

Fine then, you steaming pile of liquid shite. (I'm kidding, by the way, but your refusal to at least understand that it's my choice does paint you as an intolerant twat).

You turdburgling son of a cockhound.

[TheKeck]

You turdburgling son of a cockhound.

Don't you burgle MY turd, son!



Wife: Honey, where has all your turd gone?
Husband: [crying]It's been burgled!

[fitbabits]

You turdburgling son of a cockhound.
And to think I questioned your capacity to care. :)

[Bone]

Of course I read what he said. Him playing beta software has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I stated that Nintendo fans who hype the controller (who haven't even used it, of course) are doing so on blind faith. Until everyone here actually gets a chance to try the controller for themselves on some ACTUAL games, it's just hype and speculation.

I just don't see any way to argue this, and it isn't trolling. The product must be out for people to actually experience it.
You're so full of shit! You've been trashing the Revolution and its controller, based on nothing but hype and speculation (your words), but when someone actually USES the controller, you say we can't form more solid opinions? What a dick.

[mister_slim]

Of course I read what he said. Him playing beta software has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I stated that Nintendo fans who hype the controller (who haven't even used it, of course) are doing so on blind faith. Until everyone here actually gets a chance to try the controller for themselves on some ACTUAL games, it's just hype and speculation.

I just don't see any way to argue this, and it isn't trolling. The product must be out for people to actually experience it.
Been playing a lot of PS3 and 360, have you?

[thecrazyd]

So... what Zeal is saying is that we are not allowed to be excited about anything until we have it? Go back under your bridge until the next Rev article comes out.

[Achilles]

It's most certain that MS and Sony got cracking on a similar device immediately after Nintendo's announcement.The Eye Toy was doing a lot of the spatial stuff, as they demonstrated at the PS3 E3 announcement, like picking up water with a cup and pouring it out, moving stuff around and that kind of thing. They'll probably continue in this direction using their camera peripherals, or go more the remote control+2 sensor rout like Nintendo is. But in my opinion this idea is better as a peripheral, not the main control device for the machine.

I'm certainly in the minority in this thread as someone who likes the current controllers. I like real tactile feedback instead of just one motor "rumble", I like the two analog stick and trigger format, and I like being able to use 4 face buttons and a good D-pad for things like fighting games. Sure Nintendo will offer something like this, but I don't like the GC controller, especially for fighting games, and I don't want to buy other controller shells for the Rev's remote since, because it’s a peripheral, it won’t be a primary platform for any game that would require a standard controller.

[TheKeck]

Go back under your bridge

Back under your bridge... ha ha ha... get it? He's calling him a troll.... ha ha ha... Oh sorry.

[thecrazyd]

Back under your bridge... ha ha ha... get it? He's calling him a troll.... ha ha ha... Oh sorry.
Oh, I get it now! Hahaha.

[Kelegacy]

Been playing a lot of PS3 and 360, have you?

Slim, go back under your bridge and stop bringing rationality to inane debates, okay?

[Kelegacy]

Oh, I get it now! Hahaha.

LoL, you fucking tool. :cool:

Why does it feel so dirty to say LOL when you are actually laughing? Smileys are equally gay, but how am I supposed to convey laughter or amusement without using one or the other?

A man is torn between gaydom and retardedness.

[Lutheran]

Zeal is a nintendo hater , and I say this because of the venom that was included in every one of his replys on this subject except for the last 2 or so as he hopefully realizes he is being retarted for killing something that clearly a lot of people are psyched over and that MAY turn out to be an incredible progression in console gameplay , if anything a real gamer should WANT THIS TO OWN...Why would anyone unless they were trolling kill or attack all the enthusiasm over this when they have no idea if it going to be awesome or not..ya see loving it and hoping for great possibilities is what I expect from gamers , not auto-hating and hoping for failure..that to me sounds like trolling or worse brand hating..I am psyched by this controller and I can't wait to own one..I will also own either a PS3 or an XBOX 360 or probably all 3. I want to see different stuff come out , this controller and the possibilities has me geeked for the first time in a long while..that doesn't mean I don't love the XBOX any less though.

[TheKeck]

LoL, you fucking tool. :cool:

Why does it feel so dirty to say LOL when you are actually laughing? Smileys are equally gay, but how am I supposed to convey laughter or amusement without using one or the other?

A man is torn between gaydom and retardedness.

Yeah, I can't bring myself to use the LoL. Smilies are quite gay, but I suffer through them it my lame attempts to convey tone and emotion.

Edit: :o

[thecrazyd]

Slim, go back under your bridge and stop bringing rationality to inane debates, okay?
My line was about Zeal being a troll, not Slim. I apologize if it was misinterpreted. In other news: Zeal is a cock.

[Kelegacy]

My line was about Zeal being a troll, not Slim. I apologize if it was misinterpreted. In other news: Zeal is a cock.

I know. I was directing playful banter in mister_slim's direction. It was totally separate from your righteous crusade on King Zealot de Cockwadian.

I apologize for any confusion my remarks might have stirred up. I have had a few Killians since I returned from work a half hour ago and I'm in a blessedly good mood.

[Zeal]

My feelings for Nintendo will never change. The reason for this is due to the fanatical nature of their core base, as evidenced in this thread. I think anyone who has been playing games long enough will agree, there's nothing more rabid than a Nintendo fanboy.

Especially gamers in their late 20s-30s who religiously defend a game company who intentionally markets to children. I'll never really understand their mindset.

As for the controller, it's either going to be a huge success or a complete gimmick. I think only time will tell.

You know, once the Revolution actually has games games to play.

[thecrazyd]

The thing I don't get about Zeal is he pulls this "Wait til it comes out and then we can judge it" shit, and then makes all kind of snap judgements about it. He says they market exclusively to children, but then he acknowleges that 20-30 year olds fervently love it. The duality of his arguments astounds me.

[Lutheran]

So you hate a company because the fans of said company are rabid fans..hmm sounds like pure logic to me..And don't worry about the games , Nintendo doesn't have billions of dollars for no reason at all...same as Microsoft , usually you can count on them to deliver something pretty damn entertaining. I love the GC but its not better then the XBOX , and I know I'll love the XBOX 360 even though clearly there are a lot of idiots out there who will defend that system to the end of time..its no thing to me..I could give a shit , all I care about are the games..and I can't wait to see what Nintendo will come up with for this new system of theirs. If it sucks or is a gimmick , I'll be the first to say it , though I still won't kill them for trying something new I mean after all they aren't holding a remote to anyones head and demanding them to buy it :)

[SMES]

The thing I don't get about Zeal is he pulls this "Wait til it comes out and then we can judge it" shit, and then makes all kind of snap judgements about it. He says they market exclusively to children, but then he acknowleges that 20-30 year olds fervently love it. The duality of his arguments astounds me.


God forbid that adults enjoy Mario games over football, Halo or GTA. I'd rather listen to Mario say "Ow-wow-wow-wow" and "it's-a-me!" than Carl Johnson spouting lines that would make real gang member's ears bleed.

As a corollary, the article that was linked to at "lost garden" explains why Nintendo continues to make hardware, and why even though the Virtual Boy was a commercial failure, it was still part of a successful overall strategy. If anyone (Zeal) wants to understand why Nintendo acts the way they do, they should read that article.

Also, someone mentioned that the Revolution will not change the market unless Sony/MS copy the design and that that is unlikely. Well, as the lost garden article shows, if the Rev controller is successful, then MS and Sony will almost certainly copy the design, because... oh, just go read it.

[Bone]

My feelings for Nintendo will never change. The reason for this is due to the fanatical nature of their core base, as evidenced in this thread. I think anyone who has been playing games long enough will agree, there's nothing more rabid than a Nintendo fanboy.
There IS something more rabid than a Nintendo fanboy, and that's a wannabe-macho Nintendo hater. Yea, hate on that gay company and their gay plumber! FUCK YEA! Punch a kitten while you're at it, cuz you're a tough guy!

Check out the console history thread and you'll see most of us own all the consoles. We're only here arguing with you because of your ignorant and hypocritical comments.

If you know your feelings for Nintendo will never change, what purpose do you serve in these threads? To try and change our minds? Or just... maybe... to be a troll?

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I AM saying that! C'mon, guys, it'll be fun! We'll get some fried chicken and lemonade and run around together, singing that fucking Coke song. Now we just need to find a field we can all meet in ... Kansas, maybe? It's kind of in the middle for everybody.


No, trust me, you don't want to go to Kansas. Nothing but corn and sunflowers for miles and miles...

Still sounds like fun though! I'll bring the lube!



I have to go out for a few hours now, but I want at least 5 more pages of this hilarious thread when I get back!

Zeal buddy, I expect a few more of those inane comments for my reading pleasure. *pet pet*

[TheKeck]

No, trust me, you don't want to go to Kansas. Nothing but corn and sunflowers for miles and miles...


I lived in Kansas for a year and it wasn't as bad as it's cracked up to be. Better than driving through on the interstate, anyway.

[TheBrainKills]

Zeal buddy, I expect a few more of those inane comments for my reading pleasure. *pet pet*


Yes, his last post had so much wrong it was wonderfull.


As far as Nintendo and HD and widescreen is concerned I think its just the cost of increased resolution, nothing to do with the technology of widescreen. Their current Gamecube games are mostly widescreen progressive scan, about 75% of them. Hopefully their sensors will allow us to add wire as needed so that we can account for our home theater setups. If not.. well I have no problems hacking things.

[rubek]

My feelings for Nintendo will never change. The reason for this is due to the fanatical nature of their core base, as evidenced in this thread. I think anyone who has been playing games long enough will agree, there's nothing more rabid than a Nintendo fanboy.

Especially gamers in their late 20s-30s who religiously defend a game company who intentionally markets to children. I'll never really understand their mindset.

As for the controller, it's either going to be a huge success or a complete gimmick. I think only time will tell.

You know, once the Revolution actually has games games to play.

On that note, I should hate the Xbox and all of it's incarnations, due to the EXTREME MTV OMG VIDEO CLIPS AND EMO PUNK ARE TEH HOTTEST WE ARE TARGETING MEDIOCRITY AND SAME-OLD SAME-OLD nature of it. But I don't, because its is a decent console, granted a few flaws, but that is what evolution is all about. You seemed to have somehow missed out on that little natural occurence. If everyone was as close-minded and subjective as Zeal, we wouldn't even have consoles, or the wheel for that matter. (I know thats a bit far fetched, but meh) I for one can't wait to see what can be done with this idea. And i trust Nintendo's record to be able to pull it off.

[Stormwatcher]

Of course I read what he said. Him playing beta software has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I stated that Nintendo fans who hype the controller (who haven't even used it, of course) are doing so on blind faith. Until everyone here actually gets a chance to try the controller for themselves on some ACTUAL games, it's just hype and speculation.

I just don't see any way to argue this, and it isn't trolling. The product must be out for people to actually experience it.

Zeal, to be honest with you, that doesn't make sense.
I'm not doing anything on blind faith. I have eyes and brains, and the power of abstraction... What I mean is: I saw the controller pics and movies. I saw the happy people playing in the video. I read several gaming site writers describing the experience they had on the beta machines....

This is how it happened to me:
From the pics, the keynote speech and the happy people vid I was able to understand what the controller is supposed to do. I started imagining all the possible applications. Then I got to the conclusion that IF nintendo makes it work like what Iwata promissed and how the happy people played, it would surely be a revolution. That is not blind faith.

Then, we got the reports of people who actually played the damn thing. All of them described somthing really close to what I envisioned. The Wired guy went into the details that matched my expectations...

Even though I have not played with the thing, every evidence points that the concept is great and the execution is sound. Even though the demo stuff was far from being the finel product, we can assume that the final product will be BETTER than the demo one.

I understand your criticism, but I sincerely, objectively and reasonalby disagree. I'm offering decent arguments here, I hope you'll answer likewise.

[nonchalance]

My feelings for Nintendo will never change. The reason for this is due to the fanatical nature of their core base, as evidenced in this thread. I think anyone who has been playing games long enough will agree, there's nothing more rabid than a Nintendo fanboy.

Do you hate cars because of the fanatics?
Or even any particular brand of car?

How about Subway restaraunts?

Or beer? I know some people who will abuse people at parties based on their choice of beverage, but that doesn't make me dislike James Boag's.

What about sports fans? Do you hate Collingwood, (a suburb of Melbourne, Australia) because of Collingwood football supporters?

What about the entire world? I know some really really hardcore environmentalists, much more rabid than Nintendo fanboys. Those guys are fucking psycho.

[Stormwatcher]

Zeal, Erm, the sony and MS fanboys are at all different from nintendo ones???

You should probably hate all companies related to gaming.

I really like subway restaurants. Maybe I should be hated.

[Zeal]

The controller will either revitalize Nintendo or throw them further into obscurity. If quality third-party support is lacking (as it has been since Nintendo 64), then they'll fade even futher into nichedom. They won't even be regarded as a third place competitor, with neither Sony or Microsoft acknowledging them as a rival.

Nintendo is well aware of its position right now, and so are gamers and developers alike. They either try something crazy (like the controller) or follow in Sega's footsteps.

When three's a crowd, one's gotta go.

[thecrazyd]

Except... they are consistantly making money off of their consoles. Unlike Sega. If they were in bad shape financially, then you may have an argument. As it is, everything you say makes you look stupider. You do realize you are a joke, right? Everyone sees your falacious arguments and blind hatred for what it is.

Also, you are making the assumption that the market cannot maintain three consoles, without any evidence whatsoever to support this.

[Stormwatcher]

Nintendo may be number 3 in marketshare in europe and US, but it is a solid number one in Jp (if ou consider all platforms) and the GC is a solid number two in the big machines.

Nintendo is also number one profit maker overall. The xbox division of MS NEVER MADE A CENT, nope, it only sucked money from Bill's pockets.

So, all in all, I see the Xbox as being far more endangered than Nintendo or the revolution.

And that, my friend, are the simple numbers in the money game. which is a lot more importan than the perceptions of forum guys.

[Zeal]

I no longer care to even address you, thecrazyd.

As for your response, Stormwatcher, we all know Nintendo is second place in Japan, so lets not try to mix numbers here and there. First is Sony, followed by Nintendo and then Microsoft. It is also accepted fact that on an international scale, Nintendo is simply third place. This is something Nintendo fans could have never dreamed would happen. First to last.

As for Microsoft losing money on the Xbox, this was planned out from the very beginning. Their purpose with the Xbox was to penetrate the game industry as a respectable force on the field. They more than achieved this and knocked the great Nintendo back to third place while doing so. Not too shabby for a first time player.

If you want to talk "simple numbers", ok, sure. The 'simple numbers' show that Microsoft has enough money to buy Nintendo out 10x over. The losses Microsoft took in its gaming division were easily swallowed up by the massive yearly profit it makes on software distribution. We're talking a company that brings in billions a year. Financially speaking, Nintendo and Sony will never even be in the same league as Microsoft, so don't worry there.

Nintendo is playing both catchup with Sony and Microsoft, now. It isn't the other way around.

So, to recap what I said:

1. Nintendo is not number one in Japan.
2. Nintendo is not second place out of all the consoles, but third.
3. Nintendo is adapting its strategy to survive in a market domninated by Sony and Microsoft.

[thecrazyd]

Haha! I win! Zeal is hiding behind "not addressing" my issues because he knows he has absolutly no argument! Oh, and Stormwatcher meant overall, including the GC, the GBA, and the GC, where they are number 1 in Japan.

[Zeal]

This is just another attempt at Nintendo heads to distort the numbers in order to look like they're outselling Sony and Microsoft. Kinda like how when Nintendo had nothing to show at E3, they started talking about how well their handhelds were doing lol. So fuckin' what. I can call desperation when I see it.

Facts:

1. Nintendo is third place in the console industry.
2. The DS is not outselling the PSP by a large margin.
3. Adding handhelds and console numbers to make Nintendo appear in a first place position is a gross distortion of the facts. Seperate markets.
4. If you think Nintendo is in first place in Japan, please compare the Gamecube's units sales with that of the PS2.
5. Microsoft continues to outsell Nintendo everywhere but Japan. Nintendo is a distant third when compared to Sony and Microsoft's consoles.
6. Sony makes more profit per PSP sold than Nintendo does with the DS.

Stop trying to mix and mannipulate numbers here. It ain't gonna work.

And although Nintendo made more profit than either Microsoft or Sony, it did not help their position in units sold or their position as third place worldwide. Nintendo makes very cheap, almost throwaway systems. They're not geared towards performance, but affordability. Of course they're not gonna loose money.

[thecrazyd]

Fact:

1. A profitable third is better then an unprofitable first.
2. Last I heard, the DS has a little under twice the sales of the PSP. This was before some big names like Nintendogs and Advance Wars were released.
3. I agree this tactic is shady, but unless Stormwatcher is an official Nintendo spokesman, then I think your insult is groundless.
4. NINTENDO is first place in Japan. Not the GameCube.
5. I am sure you have a point, but I cannot decipher it.
6. Interesting. I thought the PSP was sold at a loss. Do you have a source?

[nonchalance]

Zeal.
Do you hate cars because of the fanatics?
Or even any particular brand of car?

How about Subway restaraunts?

Or beer? I know some people who will abuse people at parties based on their choice of beverage, but that doesn't make me dislike James Boag's.

What about sports fans? Do you hate Collingwood, (a suburb of Melbourne, Australia) because of Collingwood football supporters?

What about the entire world? I know some really really hardcore environmentalists, much more rabid than Nintendo fanboys. Those guys are fucking psycho.[/QUOTE]

[Zeal]

4. NINTENDO is first place in Japan. Not the GameCube.

This is more double-talk. Nintendo is first place in the handheld market in Japan and second in the console industry. Since we're speaking consoles here, (I don't even consider handheld units a viable medium for videogames) you're gonna have to compare Gamecubes sold to PS2s sold...which isn't even worth it.

They're second place in Japan, third everywhere else. This is accepted everywhere and by everyone.

I think what'll eventually happen after this generation is that Nintendo will stick to handheld systems only, or just go software altogether.

[thecrazyd]

I think I see a pattern. I said I agree with you on that manner. We are talking consoles, not handhelds. I said that. Stop picking and choosing, and just admit you are wrong.

And Nintendo will not dump consoles as long as they make money on it. Which the GameCube does.

[Achilles]

Haha! I win! Zeal is hiding behind "not addressing" my issues because he knows he has absolutly no argument! Oh, and Stormwatcher meant overall, including the GC, the GBA, and the GC, where they are number 1 in Japan.Well if you use those numbers they're #1 everywhere. But their rep and market share in the console space isn't helped by their handheld success. They tried giving it a boost by promoting connectivity but it didn't work.

I like how you guys are bullet-pointing your posts now though, it makes them a lot easier to read :P

[Harlan Hoyt]

(I don't even consider handheld units a viable medium for videogames)

Are you kidding me? That is, without doubt, the single stupidest thing I have heard all goddamn night. I bow down to you, sir. Truly, you are King Retard. Long live the King.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Crazy already addressed some of Zeal's stupidity, but I want to add a few corrections of my own.



Facts:

5. Microsoft continues to outsell Nintendo everywhere but Japan. Nintendo is a distant third when compared to Sony and Microsoft's consoles.
6. Sony makes more profit per PSP sold than Nintendo does with the DS.

Nintendo makes very cheap, almost throwaway systems. They're not geared towards performance, but affordability. Of course they're not gonna loose money.


Rebuttals:

5 - Nintendo is hardly in a "distant" third. If by "distant" you really meant "behind the Xbox by a couple million" then yes, you are right. :rolleyes:

6 - Whether or not the PSP actually makes money is in dispute, but the damn thing costs nearly twice what the DS does. They obviously have the chance to make a hell of a lot more money. Nintendo keeps their hardware priced a lot lower than the competition, yet still manages to make a profit.

As to your final comment - Nintendo's consoles are now cheap and throwaway? That's pretty funny, because everyone with a brain can see that Nintendo makes the highest quality hardware in the business, and has since the SNES. The Gamecube is a tough little console, much more so than the error-prone PS2 or even the Xbox.

We don't even need to go into how much better built the DS is compared to the PSP.



Edit - Forget to add this part:

I lived in Kansas for a year and it wasn't as bad as it's cracked up to be. Better than driving through on the interstate, anyway.


Unfortunately I have lived in Nebraska for over 21 years now, and I want to die.


What happened you guys? I demanded at least 5 new pages, and go two instead? You've all disappointed me.

[thecrazyd]

What can a say? Zeal is a slow typer, and I am not going to argue with myself.

[SMES]

I think what'll eventually happen after this generation is that Nintendo will stick to handheld systems only, or just go software altogether.

Please visit www.lostgarden.com for a solid argument against that opinion. Hardware is their bread and butter. Here, I'll quote it:

"As a side note, folks who argue Nintendo should just make games for other platforms are completely missing the point. Nintendo needs to control their hardware platform in order to force innovation to occur in the control mechanisms. Other console manufacturers who rely on the hardcore audiences and standardized genres don’t see this need. They would happily standardize the console platform and make it into a commodity. Microsoft has historically made major comments about having one universal development platform.

The moment Nintendo loses control over their hardware, they lose a major competitive advantage in terms of creating new genres."

[SMES]

Zeal.
Do you hate cars because of the fanatics?
Or even any particular brand of car?
[/QUOTE]

I hate Ford Tauruses because they have the worst automatic transmissions ever built.

I hate VW buses because one caught on fire as I was driving down the road, and we pulled over and got out just in time for the tires to explode, followed 15 seconds later by the gas tank.

Finally, I hate Oldsmobile station wagons because my mom had one when I was growing up and the air system didn't work and the back windows didn't roll down (they weren't broken, they NEVER rolled down. What kind of design is that?), so it was like an oven.

[nonchalance]

See, now those are good reasons to hate hardware.

[Kelegacy]

If Microsoft made dildos, Zeal would be first in line to snatch one up and impale himself on one.

[Stormwatcher]

If I were a Nintendo officer or something, I would be in Tokyo doing game related work, not at an office in Rio de Janeiro solving problems for Banks. :)
Well, let us sum up my point: Nintendo is doing fine, economy-wise. There isn't a chance that they go sega. And I'm sure the Xbox SOFTWARE was meant to make a little money.

I'm not a nintendo "lover" or Fanboy. I was a PC gamer, and used to make a lot of nintendo jokes, until I got me a gamecube. Then I was simply amazed with the games and gameplay. I made a lot of DS jokes too, until I got a DS. I'm looking into buying a PS2, but they're still to expensive here. It must be modded, you know, there are NO legit PS2 games for sale here, so the console is more expensive. Anyway, I'm no fanboy, I have nothing against sony or MS. I just see no "NINTENDO IS TEH d00mezro" scenario.


Oh, concerning the quality of nintendo's hardware: It may look simpler, but it is damn sight sturdier than the half-baked stuff sony and MS sell. The Slim is teh suck here in the tropics, it really heats up, inlike the older bigger ps2, which has it's own kinds of problems. The Xbox was a joke, filled with malfunctions. They later got it right, though. The PSP is another example of crappy execution (dead pixels) AND design flaws ("yeah, the square button sucks, we don't care, deal with it" Sony rep.).

Just because the Cube is purple, doesn't mean it is not a lot more resilient than the competition.

[TheKeck]

Unfortunately I have lived in Nebraska for over 21 years now, and I want to die.

Yeah, I noticed that your profile says you are from Nebraska, and was thinking you might rebutt my statement, but I figured, what the hell? What can I say, I live on the edge. :p

[TheBrainKills]

The controller will either revitalize Nintendo or throw them further into obscurity.




You are truly delusional, if you look at the Evil Avatar console owning poll:

PS2 owners ... 140
Xbox ............ 170
Gamcube ...... 155

If you are calling Nintendo obscure then you must be talking about the Cube and discounting their mobile division. But it looks like on this site the PS2 is more obscure. Go figure. Nintendo could sit this next gen out and rely on the mobile division to make gobs of money and come back to fight another day.

Obscure... hah.

[Zeal]

Yeah, because Evil Avatar has anything to do with consoles sold.

As for discounting thier "mobile division", I've already stated that I do not consider the handheld market a viable medium for videogames. This is about consoles and Nintendo is indisputably third.

I'm not gonna sit here and reiterate the facts.

[Rakael]

The fact that you don't consider handhelds a viable medium for gaming?? Are you on fucking crack, or just a complete assclown? Just because you do not consider them viable does not mean that they somehow should not count. Fucking twit.

[TheBrainKills]

Do you know what obscure means? Nintendo is a household name. Ask anybody on the street.

As I said you are delusional:
"I do not consider the handheld market a viable medium for videogames."
This is just plain ludicrus. Just because you think something does not make it true.


Nintendo Sells Over 20 Million GBAs in U.S. http://www.gamingworldx.com/news/Nintendotodayannouncedthat.shtml

What are these people doing with them? They dont play movies on them, they dont play mp3's on them, its not a phone. What is this mysterious gadjet?

It's a game console buddy.

edit: oh ya viable ... in what way money wise? gameplay wise? explain your delusion please.

[Zeal]

The fact that you don't consider handhelds a viable medium for gaming?? Are you on fucking crack, or just a complete assclown? Just because you do not consider them viable does not mean that they somehow should not count. Fucking twit.

How's it feel to be a fucking idiot?

This is a discussion about CONSOLES.

It's a game console buddy.

No, it's a handheld.

[MadHiro]

Yeah, because Evil Avatar has anything to do with consoles sold.

As for discounting thier "mobile division", I've already stated that I do not consider the handheld market a viable medium for videogames. This is about consoles and Nintendo is indisputably third.

I'm not gonna sit here and reiterate the facts.
No, what Evil Avatar is is a reasonable, random sampling of gamers. As such, a poll of ownership of systems should give a good idea what is where in market share.

Why are handheld not a "viable medium" for videogames? The world viable means able to survive, to prosper. How is the format failing to do this? What about being able to play videogames regardless of where you are is a problem as a platform for playing games on it?

IF this is about Consoles, and IF you are talking about very specific geographic areas, then yes, Nintendo's Gamecube is in third place for market share. On a similiar note, if you define the parameters down small enough, you can say any point. Did you know that for people with the last name of Pledl, I am without a doubt the best at constructing peanut butter sandwiches?

Amazing!

P.S. To sit around repeating facts, you would have had to had any facts to start with.

[Zeal]

IF this is about Consoles, and IF you are talking about very specific geographic areas, then yes, Nintendo's Gamecube is in third place for market share.

I love how you people try to worm your way out of this by distorting the truth. What I meant was Microsoft is outselling them everywhere but Japan, which is true.

[Rakael]

[QUOTE=Zeal]How's it feel to be a fucking idiot?

This is a discussion about CONSOLES.






I've been in this discussion since the beginning, if you haven't noticed ole Captain MS. You always pop in, flame away, and then proceed to dig your hole too deep to climb out of. Then you just keep on digging away until the discussion itself finally dies. On top of that, you have the nerve to call me an idiot. Oh yes, I bow to you sir. Please, do try again, and again, and again, and again. I know you will.

[MadHiro]

I love how you people try to worm your way out of this by distorting the truth. What I meant was Microsoft is outselling them everywhere but Japan, which is true.
You're the one distorting the truth. You seem to think that everywhere implies everywhere but Japan. A rather callous attitude toward the Japanese and their very large market for video gaming.

[Lutheran]

Hey Imbecille , this isn't a discussion about consoles it was a discussion about the new revolutionary controller that your lord and master Nintendo is preparing to shove far up your ass in the near future. Nintendo might be 3rd with the GC in the US but they have a huge audience and when you add in the GB and DS familys they are doing very well dude..sorry to say but the big N will be here for a long time innovating..I know you don't like it but , for you , with all that HATE , life sucks anyway so whats the difference..and oh by the way....














PLONK!!!!!

[Zeal]

You're the one distorting the truth. You seem to think that everywhere implies everywhere but Japan. A rather callous attitude toward the Japanese and their very large market for video gaming.

This is becoming laughably stupid. How would you like it said, then? Microsoft is outselling Nintendo in every region besides the Japanese market. Is that politically correct enough for you? It's like you're about to cry.

[TheBrainKills]

From the Encyclopædia Britannica:

a Game Console is.

"Computer-delivered electronic system that allows the user to control, combine, and manipulate different types of media, such as text, sound, video, computer graphics, and animation."

There is no mention of it having a size requirement, oh ya but this doesn't fit into your delusion tho. So it can't be true.

but we are spliting hairs here ... if you want to talk about TV consoles go ahead but leave out Nintendo is doomed and obscure.

[TheBrainKills]

How's it feel to be a fucking idiot?

This is a discussion about CONSOLES.



No, it's a handheld.


So close ... its a hand held what? Come... on say it.

[Harlan Hoyt]

I'm curious, Zeal. In what way are handhelds not a "viable medium" for videogames? Because Microsoft doesn't make one? I realize that you're trying to construe the argument in such a way that your (highly debtable) point works, but what I really want to know is why you don't think handhelds are actual consoles. What do you think it is I do with my DS, hmm?

Or is your entire argument that Nintendo doesn't have a version of GTA, they must be in danger of pulling a Sega? Ignoring the fact (as has been pointed out here numerous times) that Nintendo is a highly profitable company who could soldier on with the GameCube, GBA and DS into the forseeable future and still continue to do exactly what they're doing.

At any rate, who the fuck cares about sales? I'm not a goddamn microeconomics major, and I don't jerk off to the Wall Street Journal. I like playing videogames (you might want to try it sometime, it can be a lot of fun) and I'm pretty stoked about the new Revolution controller. It's a big bright world out here, buddy. You should come join us.

[MadHiro]

This is becoming laughably stupid. How would you like it said, then? Microsoft is outselling Nintendo in every region besides the Japanese market. Is that politically correct enough for you? It's like you're about to cry.
It was laughably stupid the moment you became involved.

That would be an accurate statement, as far as I know. And would be one of the few, if only, time(s) that you've refrained from distorting the truth. Congratulations.

[MadHiro]

At any rate, who the fuck cares about sales? I'm not a goddamn microeconomics major, and I don't jerk off to the Wall Street Journal.

Stock Price over Time graphs are the sexiest thing ever.

[Stormwatcher]

Translation from Zeal-ness to the more common Internet nintendo hater:
Nintendo is GAYTENDO! NINTENDO IS TEH SUCK I HATZ000RX NINTENDO KIDDEIS GAaeMS
he only dresses it with a little bit more articulation. But it is indeed the same drivel.

Anyway, fact is, nintendo is doing VERY well financially, it is well known by gamers and non-gamers alike, and more to the point: All reports of people who tried the revolution's controller are quite positive. I'm optimistic aobut the revolution, it has great gameplay potential and everything indicates that nintendo is getting it right.
Thank you, good night.

[Zeal]

Cheaply made games for handhelds are not what moves the industry. What moves the industry are big-budget megasellers, such as the Halo, MGS, GTA and FF series. How many times have you seen developers hype exclusives and such for handheld systems? Why don't they put the same amount of marketing and costs behind handheld titles as console games? The answer is obvious. The console market forms the backbone of the game industry. If you argue this, you're simply uninformed.

Then again, Nintendo heads would try to convince you that Nintendo can stay alfoat with shit like the DS and Gameboy Pocket (another gimmick). And besides, what does Nintendo do when they're getting bashed for lack of games and third party support? They resort to telling everyone how well they're doing with the DS...over and over and over.

What's gonna win the next generation is the most powerful console with the best developers behind it. Both N64 and Gamecube suffered from nonexistent third-party support, and I can guarantee the same scenario will play out with the Revolution. You're gonna see a trickle of first-party games and very limited third-party development. Nothing is gonna change.

Developers are backing the 360 and PS3. It'll be a total repeat of this generation, and when the Revolution begins to tank, I bet you a million bucks Nintendo will announce yet another handheld.

[Rakael]

Wow Zeal, I just want to know where you get all of this astounding info. From what I hear, many devs are super excited to play with and code for the revolution. They like the innovation and want to take gaming in a new direction using the new controller. Of course, some will hold back and not want to get involved due to the supposed (I think it has been stated that ports will be easier than expected, I just cant remember where I saw that so I won't quote it as fact) difficulty of coding for a completely new input device, that is to be expected. However, there are still quite a few devs who are very excited. Why does it bother you so that people still back N?

Who really gives a fuck if they are #3, or #300 in market rankings? I like them, I like their games and consoles. I also happen to be an avid PC gamer and own a PS2, which I play more than the GC to be honest. I am not a "fanboi" for Nintendo, I simply like them and their games/consoles/handhelds. You are just trying to justify your hate for Nintendo, most likely for being a "kiddie" company. I guess you are just too "cool" to like them or even get excited over the new "toy". Well, you go and hang out with the cool kids smoking in the corner. I'll be hanging out with the reasonable adults who are willing to think outside the (X)box.

[Zeal]

I'll be hanging out with the reasonable adults who are willing to think outside the (X)box.

By this, I assume you mean the "resonable adults" who stand around in public and play Nintendogs on their DS, right? I'm not sure what bizzaro land you live in, but a reasonable adult would tell you to act your age.

If you're a grown man and you insist on playing videogames, at least play something marketed towards your age group. Leave Kirby and friends to the kids. It's just downright sad.

[Rakael]

Ha, you silly little bastard. Go smoke cigarettes, wear your trenchcoat, and scowl at people who pass by, brandishing your way-too-cool spiked bracelet. I don't even own a DS. Oh, and if I did, and did have Nintendogs, I would play it wherever the hell I felt like. Little teenaged (assuming by how you act) shits like you would get a pimp slap for telling me to "act my age".

[civx]

By this, I assume you mean the "resonable adults" who stand around in public and play Nintendogs on their DS, right? I'm not sure what bizzaro land you live in, but a reasonable adult would tell you to act your age.

If you're a grown man and you insist on playing videogames, at least play something marketed towards your age group. Leave Kirby and friends to the kids. It's just downright sad.

This is a piss poor troll.

[Kelegacy]

Many companies will continue to want to feed off Sony and Microsoft--and rightfully so--but if one 3rd party company capitalizes on the Revolution's new way of playing a game, it could spark a wildfire. People will want to buy the system for these neat games and developers will want to take the money of these eager consumers. They will develop for the Revolution as a result.

So dont be so sure just yet. The systems aren't out yet, and the only one that will be out in 2005 is the MTVBox. Live rules all areas of online gaming, Sony has incredible international developer support and its sequels, and Nintendo has this new way of enjoying a game. I think any developer that doesnt recognize the Revolution as a metaphorical license to print money right now, probably will later.

Don't be a hater just because it's the vogue thing to do. I'm an optimistic skeptic, if something like that can truly exist. I already know what I'm getting with the Xbox and PS3, so i'm not truly excited about it.

Let your hair down. Take the corncob out of your pooper. Enjoy the possibilities.

[Stormwatcher]

Zeal has ONE use: He makes us not-idiots think up good arguments. Otherwise, anyone who believes that portable gaming is crappy is an ultimate mongoloid.

[MadHiro]

By this, I assume you mean the "resonable adults" who stand around in public and play Nintendogs on their DS, right? I'm not sure what bizzaro land you live in, but a reasonable adult would tell you to act your age.

If you're a grown man and you insist on playing videogames, at least play something marketed towards your age group. Leave Kirby and friends to the kids. It's just downright sad.

Why it is rude to tell people to act their age. (http://www.boasas.com/?c=542)

How something is marketed matters dick in deciding what it is, and if it is good. A game's qualities are intrinsic, and have nothing to do with some bullshit lines or image that the idiot marketroids develop to sell it. Is Advance Wars cartoony? Yes. Is it a hell of a lot of fun? Also, yes.

As a further example, have you ever heard of "Meet the Feebles"? It's a movie, uses puppets, and is marketed as "From the director of Lord of the Rings". It is, too. But whoever actually decided to market it as such, marketing it towards people who liked the LOTR movies, was completely off their rocker. Just because something is marketed as such doesn't make it so; the puerile crap that is the core of many supposedly "mature" video games is only fit for pimply, fourteen year olds who can't tell the difference between gameplay and poorly rendered tits.

[Kelegacy]

By this, I assume you mean the "resonable adults" who stand around in public and play Nintendogs on their DS, right? I'm not sure what bizzaro land you live in, but a reasonable adult would tell you to act your age.

If you're a grown man and you insist on playing videogames, at least play something marketed towards your age group. Leave Kirby and friends to the kids. It's just downright sad.

You, sir, are not a gamer. To say something that ignorant makes me think you doing it just to stir up a hornet's nest or be a complete horse's ass. You are apparently of the breed of "gamer" that M games are the only games worth playing. Gameplay can transcend ratings and genres, Zeal. I'm 24 and I still enjoy Mario. I enjoy Link. I enjoy GTA and Halo. Not every game needs blood and guts to make it fun...in fact, a good majority of the shitty games out there TRY to be mature but forget one thing...Gameplay.

The Mainstream flows through your veins. Ignorance is your hat and Insecurity is the stuff in your pipe. Yet another "gamer" reveals that he's only a sheep in in wolf's clothing.

[Harlan Hoyt]

Cheaply made games for handhelds are not what moves the industry. What moves the industry are big-budget megasellers, such as the Halo, MGS, GTA and FF series.

If I said to you, "Westerns are the only type of film that can make money -- any other type is a waste of time and will drive the company out of business," would that make any sense? Your argument is (correct me if I'm wrong here) that Nintendo's plan to try and bring in a new influx of gamers by creating a fundamentally different way of playing games if flawed because games can only be successful if they are "big-budget megasellers"? Are movies only successful if they're made by Michael Bay?

As far as I'm concerned, if Nintendo can pull this off, than this is what is going to take (or at least start the process) of turning games into a real artistic medium. This is like the silent/sound debates in the twenties. People thought that was a gimick, too, and would kill movies. But of course, it didn't. If Nintendo can make your mom want to play videogames, then it simply won't matter what percentage of the current "games market" will be. Because the entire market of people who are playing GTA and Halo will be a small subset of the much larger, richer and more diverse market that Nintendo is intent on selling to.

I say, fuck big budget games. They have their place when they're well made and I enjoy them. But I want to see art games. I want Nintendo to create a development studio and let weird, unusual games like "Katamari Damacy" and "WarioWare" flourish. Let's see something we haven't even thought of, instead of "Halo 5" or "Final Fantasy XXIX," or even, for that matter, whatever new Mario game. All those games have their places, and they'll still be there. But I think you've missed the point: Nintendo wants to capture a market that has looked at "Halo," looked at the controller, and said, "Who gives a shit?" Just because they don't want to listen to some thirteen year old see how many times he can say "cocksucker" in one sentence on Live doesn't mean they're wrong.

And if you can't see the obvious benefits to increasing gaming's slice of the entertainment industry's pie for everyone, especially those who are already playing videogames, you are truly blind to any possibilities at all. Like Al Jolson said, "You ain't heard nothin' yet."

[Magnanimous Gnome]

What can a say? Zeal is a slow typer, and I am not going to argue with myself.

Well you are Crazy, so arguing with yourself would not be unexpected. ;)


Yeah, I noticed that your profile says you are from Nebraska, and was thinking you might rebutt my statement, but I figured, what the hell? What can I say, I live on the edge. :p

I try to live on the edge too, so every now and then I go out and tip over a cow. :cool:


How's it feel to be a fucking idiot?

This is a discussion about CONSOLES.



No, it's a handheld.

Ah, so an iPod isn't a REAL music player, because you can carry it around with you and such. Same with portable movie players, etc.

Hell, laptops aren't "real" computers, because they are smaller and lighter than the actual thing, not to mention generally less powerful.


The Mainstream flows through your veins. Ignorance is your hat and Insecurity is the stuff in your pipe. Yet another "gamer" reveals that he's only a sheep in in wolf's clothing.


That was pure poetry. Now excuse me while I go jack off with my MS branded dildo planted firmly up my ass.

[Achilles]

IF this is about Consoles, and IF you are talking about very specific geographic areas, then yes, Nintendo's Gamecube is in third place for market share. Spesific areas, like, you know, the world. Come on, surely you know that worldwide Nintendo is in third place in console market share. Are you actually going to argue that?

The poll of system ownership on Evil Avatar is the best example of how detached the hard core community is from the main stream that I can think of. It in no way represents the real market share for these companies as evidenced by the PS2 who owns 60% of the total marketshare coming in last by a good number. If it was representative it would be closer to:
PS2- 80mil
Xbox-30mil
GC-22mil

Handhelds aren’t consoles. Period. Zeal’s right, nobody in the industry calls handhelds consoles, they call them handhelds. Console implies a set-top device like a DVD player.It'll be a total repeat of this generation, and when the Revolution begins to tank, I bet you a million bucks Nintendo will announce yet another handheld.I don't know if that's a good measure, Nintendo comes out with a new handheld every year and a half anyway.

[Zeal]

The Mainstream flows through your veins. Ignorance is your hat and Insecurity is the stuff in your pipe. Yet another "gamer" reveals that he's only a sheep in in wolf's clothing.

That was so overly dramatic that I almost laughed. This guy has to be a flaming homosexual drama major, or something.

If by ignorant and insecure you mean that I don't feel comfortable playing games designed for children, you're right.

Spesific areas, like, you know, the world. Come on, surely you know that worldwide Nintendo is in third place in console market share. Are you actually going to argue that?

Denial, delusion and distortion are an art form to Nintendo heads. Hell, Nintendo has been in denial since they lost the console industry to Sony and now Microsoft has walked over them, too.

[MadHiro]

Spesific areas, like, you know, the world. Come on, surely you know that worldwide Nintendo is in third place in console market share. Are you actually going to argue that?

The poll of system ownership on Evil Avatar is the best example of how detached the hard core community is from the main stream that I can think of. It in no way represents the real market share for these companies as evidenced by the PS2 who owns 60% of the total marketshare coming in last by a good number. If it was representative it would be closer to:
PS2- 80mil
Xbox-30mil
GC-22mil

Handhelds aren’t consoles. Period. Zeal’s right, nobody in the industry calls handhelds consoles, they call them handhelds. Console implies a set-top device like a DVD player.


I would argue that having a larger slice of the hardcore community is better, by far, than having a larger slice of the casual one. Which group purchases more games, is more likely to buy peripherals, etc?

Why does a console "[imply] a set-top device like a DVD player"? Surely its not the DVD capacity that makes it a console, so I'll assume you're just talking about the form factor of it. The boxy cube thing. Is that what makes a console a console? Its shape and size?

Or does being portable somehow strip a gaming rig of its consoleness? Did my friend who lugged a portable TV and an SNES around manage to have the only SNES in the world that wasn't a console?

[Zeal]

Why does a console "[imply] a set-top device like a DVD player"? Surely its not the DVD capacity that makes it a console, so I'll assume you're just talking about the form factor of it. The boxy cube thing. Is that what makes a console a console? Its shape and size?

Or does being portable somehow strip a gaming rig of its consoleness? Did my friend who lugged a portable TV and an SNES around manage to have the only SNES in the world that wasn't a console?

I'm really starting to think half of this forum is taking crazy pills. If you asked developers to reveal their lineup, they would classify them into console and handheld releases. The console releases being their prime product releases, naturally.

These people are just stupid. Sorry.

[Kelegacy]

If by ignorant and insecure you mean that I don't feel comfortable playing games designed for children, you're right.


Basically, yes, that is exactly what I meant.

Zeal, you have points that are valid in this "discussion" but calling Mario a game that is designed for children shows how detached you are from reality. They're games ANYONE can pick up and play. Kids have fun, adults have fun, retards have fun.

Because of the latter, I'm surprised you aren't having fun.

[MadHiro]

I'm really starting to think half of this forum is taking crazy pills. If you asked a developer to reveal its lineup, they would be classified into console and handheld releases.

These people are just stupid. Sorry.
Marketing speak, for the assclowns that need things divided into categories to understand them. A game is a game is a game is a game. Otherwise there would be slack-jawed yobos (Read: Choad Warrior) trying to cram a PS2 disk into a PSP and confused at the result. But then again, Choad Warrior decides what to play based on said marketroid speak. He'd be lost without its guiding presence; don't forget to Do The Dew today, Choady.

Seriously though, what seperates a "Handheld" from a "Console" as a gaming platform? Handhelds are just handheld consoles.

[Jazzercide]

Zeal doesn't allow himself to play games with cartoonish graphics, so he hates to hear how good they are and how much he is/will be missing out.

[Zeal]

Marketing speak, for the assclowns that need things divided into categories to understand them. A game is a game is a game is a game. Otherwise there would be slack-jawed yobos (Read: Choad Warrior) trying to cram a PS2 disk into a PSP and confused at the result. But then again, Choad Warrior decides what to play based on said marketroid speak. He'd be lost without its guiding presence; don't forget to Do The Dew today, Choady.

Seriously though, what seperates a "Handheld" from a "Console" as a gaming platform? Handhelds are just handheld consoles.

So let me get this straight. Developers classify their games into seperate categories so consumers aren't confused as to what games go where?

Stop posting. Seriously.

[mister_slim]

My feelings for Nintendo will never change. The reason for this is due to the fanatical nature of their core base, as evidenced in this thread. I think anyone who has been playing games long enough will agree, there's nothing more rabid than a Nintendo fanboy.
This was almost a good answer. Just admit you hate Nintendo and you can stop flailing around trying to find reasons for the doom 'n gloom.

Nintendo is also number one profit maker overall. The xbox division of MS NEVER MADE A CENT, nope, it only sucked money from Bill's pockets.
Everytime I look at my Xbox I'm reminded that it signifies $200 MS lost trying to enter the market.
2. The DS is not outselling the PSP by a large margin.
3. Adding handhelds and console numbers to make Nintendo appear in a first place position is a gross distortion of the facts. Seperate markets.
4. If you think Nintendo is in first place in Japan, please compare the Gamecube's units sales with that of the PS2.
Do your research. Latest charts from Japan? 8 games for Nintendo systems, 2 for Sony, none for MS. Hardware: DS and GBA both outselling the PSP and PS2.
Since we're speaking consoles here, you're gonna have to compare Gamecubes sold to PS2s sold...which isn't even worth it.
Sony stomped MS and Nintendo in the home. At least Nintendo has some profits to show for it.
(I don't even consider handheld units a viable medium for videogames)
On what grounds? Not shiny enough? Do you also dismiss everything from before the PS2?
Cheaply made games for handhelds are not what moves the industry.
Don't make shit up. Look at the charts. Look at the profits. Handheld games offer just as good a ROI as consoles, and the large publishers recognize that.

Ah, so an iPod isn't a REAL music player, because you can carry it around with you and such. Same with portable movie players, etc.
I wonder if MS realizes they've been positioning the 360 as an iPod competitor.
If it was representative it would be closer to:
PS2- 80mil
Xbox-30mil
GC-22mil
Umm... Source? I'm pretty sure the numbers are more like: 90, 24, 21.

[MadHiro]

So let me get this straight. Developers classify their games into seperate categories so consumers aren't confused as to what games go where?

Stop posting. Seriously.

Yes, a common reason for seperating things into categories is to prevent confusion as to where things go. For instance, if we were to sort out the posters on EvAv, we could put the Choad Warrior into the "Incontinent Assclown Bin" so that whenever anyone wanted to find you, they'd be able to do so quickly and easily. It is an organizational thing, and doesn't actually change -what you are-. If you weren't an Incontinent Assclown to begin with, it wouldn't make you one.

What is fundamentally different between a portable game and a non-portable game? What changes?

[Achilles]

I would argue that having a larger slice of the hardcore community is better, by far, than having a larger slice of the casual one. Which group purchases more games, is more likely to buy peripherals, etc?

Why does a console "[imply] a set-top device like a DVD player"? Surely its not the DVD capacity that makes it a console, so I'll assume you're just talking about the form factor of it. The boxy cube thing. Is that what makes a console a console? Its shape and size?

Or does being portable somehow strip a gaming rig of its consoleness? Did my friend who lugged a portable TV and an SNES around manage to have the only SNES in the world that wasn't a console?The SNES was a console, yes. If it requires that you plug it into a TV to play than it’s a console. And don’t go bringing up those LCD screen attachments, those came out after the system was already established as a console, and were not the primary way to play games on it. You don’t have an argument on that one, that’s the way things are classified. You can dislike it all day long because you want Nintendo to have more market share or some stupid thing, but that’s the way it is.

For the damn hard core community of which I am part, if they’re so important why did games like Ico, Ikaruga, Steel Battalion, BG&E, or any number of other games which the hardcore community loves not sell better? It’s because they’re a tiny nearly insignificant amount of the market. If a game only appeals to the hard core it fails miserably.

[Zeal]

Your custom user title reflects your post nicely, slim.

[Jazzercide]

wtf is this conversation about now? Nintendo isn't going out of business because they're #1 in profitability, and that's what matters towards that. Also, the Sega model includes going out of business and getting bought by Sammy.

[Achilles]

What is fundamentally different between a portable game and a non-portable game? What changes?Lots of stuff. To make a good portable game it needs to be designed around a portable philosophy, not to mention that it has to be more old school because of space and horsepower concerns. The portable philosophy takes away immersion in place of bite sized experiences that people can pick up and put down easily. But that's a different subject.Umm... Source? I'm pretty sure the numbers are more like: 90, 24, 21.Could be, it’s been hard to find numbers lately, do you have a source on those numbers? But that doesn't make the Evil Avatar console ownership statistic any more accurate, I don’t see Sony in last place there either.

[TheBrainKills]

By this, I assume you mean the "resonable adults" who stand around in public and play Nintendogs on their DS, right? I'm not sure what bizzaro land you live in, but a reasonable adult would tell you to act your age.

If you're a grown man and you insist on playing videogames, at least play something marketed towards your age group. Leave Kirby and friends to the kids. It's just downright sad.


More insanity! So by your reasoning any father or mother who plays video games with their children is sad? Any game that is rated for "all ages" is not reasonable for an adult. Grow up. Not everyone has to be pidgeon holed into their respective age group.
I prefer the cartoony graphics to the dark sinister stuff. Why? because maybe it reminds me of when I grew up and all the cartoons I watched as a kid, a simpler time when there was no Internet with closed minded twits like you. Also its easier to see on my 50" RPTV during the day, and also I am over 40 and my eye-sight is failing ;).
If you had been around since pong with the one dial controller maybe you wouldn't have this attitude, but then again there are alot of idiots in this world, I guess your one.

[Jazzercide]

Is there even anything about colorful that's intrinsicly childish? It's just your fucking hangup based on Saturday Morning Cartoons.

If Mario3 had one bloody hooker somewhere that precluded kids from playing it, it would suddenly become acceptable and fun. right or wrong Zeal?

[mister_slim]

Your custom user title reflects your post nicely, slim.
That's the best comeback you could come up with?

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Lots of stuff. To make a good portable game it needs to be designed around a portable philosophy, not to mention that it has to be more old school because of space and horsepower concerns. The portable philosophy takes away immersion in place of bite sized experiences that people can pick up and put down easily. But that's a different subject.


Ah, so a "handheld" games are SO vastly different from console games because they have simple graphics and are easy to pick up and play. I guess this means that games such as Katamari Damacy are not REAL console games either, right?



That's the best comeback you could come up with?


He's trying slim, but these things are hard for him.

[Stormwatcher]

I HATE HANDHELDS, SO THEY DO NOT COUNT LOL!!!111oneonoe
that's the botton line of Zeal's logic.

[Achilles]

Ah, so a "handheld" games are SO vastly different from console games because they have simple graphics and are easy to pick up and play. I guess this means that games such as Katamari Damacy are not REAL console games either, right?Sure they have stuff in common, they're still both games, and so are those plug and play TV games. Some console games are very similar to modern hand held games, sure. But it's two different markets, with two different groups of developers that have two different skill sets and specialties. His point was that handhelds are consoles and the games are the same. Do you agree?

[TheBrainKills]

Achilles if you walked up to some one who had never seen one, how would you describe it? If you said it was a handheld, they would look at you kind of funny. It is a portable gaming console. It allows you to change games. It allows you to save games.

If your argument is the different hardware then thats pretty weak, all consoles have different hardware with developers with different skillsets.

I would like to see the patent on the DS or PSP, how do they describe it?

[Achilles]

Achilles if you walked up to some one who had never seen one, how would you describe it? If your argument is the different hardware then thats pretty weak, all consoles have different hardware with developers with different skillsets.I would describe a hand held as a portable game system and a console as a home game system that plugs into your TV. They're both game systems, they're not both consoles, just like you don't call a pair of head phones your "speakers", or your walkman a "stereo". They use different tech, different teams, and cater to a different market.

I'm not sure why people are even arguing this other than trying to tie the GBA marketshare into the GC marketshare so they can say Nintendo is #1 in game consoles, which was what the original guy was trying to do.

And the skills needed to make handheld games diverge quite a bit more from the ones required to make console games than you may think. Our company makes both. I came from one field and now I work in the other so I notice the differences every day in how people approach a problem.

[TheBrainKills]

As I said earlier we are spliting hairs on this, a "console" is an out dated term coming from the 70's where a computer was the size of a bus and the input terminal was the console. How it got equated to a gaming system I don't know. Go figure.

[Zeal]

As I said earlier we are spliting hairs on this, a "console" is an out dated term coming from the 70's where a computer was the size of a bus and the input terminal was the console. How it got equated to a gaming system I don't know. Go figure.

Because that is the commonly accepted industry terminology used to describe a game system. Stop posting stupid fucking arguments, people.

Motherfuckers coming in here acting like Morpheus and shit.

"WHAT IS......REAL? HOW DO YOU DEFINE...............REAL?"
"IS THAT A CONTROLLER YOU'RE USING......?"

[kwillhan]

Here's the question though.

What about the 35th anniversary edition of Monopoly? It's bigger than an xbox, has fucking UNREAL 3d Graphics, is quite portable, AND has unlimited modding capabilities. You could prolly work out some kind of racing game with that bitch if you wanted too.

And is it.... REAL? How do you define........REAL?

kel

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Sure they have stuff in common, they're still both games, and so are those plug and play TV games. Some console games are very similar to modern hand held games, sure. But it's two different markets, with two different groups of developers that have two different skill sets and specialties. His point was that handhelds are consoles and the games are the same. Do you agree?


I do agree that handhelds are consoles. They are handheld consoles. I don't give a shit about the argument as to whether or not the GBA and DS should count towards Nintendo's system marketshare. I just find it silly that some (especially Zeal) are so adament against portable systems being consoles.

Hell, the GBA is basically a portable Super Nintendo. A portable console. Just like the PSP is a portable PS1.5. Portable consoles. Portable game systems. Whatever. Trying to argue that they are two totally separate entities is ridiculous. Picking nits really.

[Zeal]

I do agree that handhelds are consoles. They are handheld consoles. I don't give a shit about the argument as to whether or not the GBA and DS should count towards Nintendo's system marketshare. I just find it silly that some (especially Zeal) are so adament against portable systems being consoles.

Hell, the GBA is basically a portable Super Nintendo. A portable console. Just like the PSP is a portable PS1.5. Portable consoles. Portable game systems. Whatever. Trying to argue that they are two totally separate entities is ridiculous. Picking nits really.

Did you even correctly read his post?

[Achilles]

I just find it silly that some (especially Zeal) are so adament against portable systems being consoles.I know a couple people who don't think handheld games are real games. That's because they view games as interactive entertainment instead of toys, and the kind of experiences you get with handhelds are generally more in the toy/arcade game range than something that's like an interactive movie or book. I don't know if this is where Zeal's coming from (maybe he can explain) but I can sort of see their point of view on this, they just have a desire for the heritage of gaming (retro) to be extinguished in favor of the new era of interactive entertainment. Kind of a Revolution really, just not one that involves a new controller.

Handheld and Console are two categories of game, both are similar but have lots of defining features. That's my opinion anyway. Do you work on console games Mr. Gnome? (in case you're wondering about the "Mr.", I just know I'll screw up "Magnanimous" if I have to type it)

[TheBrainKills]

Because that is the commonly accepted industry terminology used to describe a game system. Stop posting stupid fucking arguments, people.

Motherfuckers coming in here acting like Morpheus and shit.


Having a little hissy fit are we?

Handhelds are consoles because I said so. Thats a fact.
To the casual gamer on the street its all interchangable. End of argument.

Stop posting in Nintendo threads, you don't own the system probably, and you would never play any of those kiddie games, so why do you torture yourself by posting? ... other than our amusment on how insane you can get.

[Harlan Hoyt]

I know a couple people who don't think handheld games are real games. That's because they view games as interactive entertainment instead of toys, and the kind of experiences you get with handhelds are generally more in the toy/arcade game range than something that's like an interactive movie or book.

So, I'm assuming you haven't played "Zork"? Or any interactive fiction? Or Maniac Mansion? Or Secret of Monkey Island? This whole handheld/console thing is the stupidest think I've seen in this thread -- and that is an impressive motherfucking feat. Let us not forget -- the reason we are talking about this is that Zeal does not consider handhelds to be a "viable medium for videogames," thus negating the Atari, NES, SNES Genesis, Sega CD, Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1 and PS2. Are these not "viable mediums" for games? As I played games on all of them, I would have to argue that they are. And that Zeal is a fucking moron. As, sadly, are you, Achilles.

[Zeal]

Handhelds are consoles because I said so. Thats a fact.
To the casual gamer on the street its all interchangable. End of argument.

Was that an attempt to do an impression of me or are you just joining the fanclub? Go fuck yaself, nub cake.

And besides, I maintain the balance in threads like these. Without me, Evil Avatar would have turned into the fuckin' Mushroom Kingdom by now.

[Achilles]

So, I'm assuming you haven't played "Zork"? Or any interactive fiction? Or Maniac Mansion? Or Secret of Monkey Island? This whole handheld/console thing is the stupidest think I've seen in this thread -- and that is an impressive motherfucking feat. As I played games on all of them, I would have to argue that they are. And that Zeal is a fucking moron. As, sadly, are you, Achilles.Are you serious? Apparently you have a reading problem, I'm not one of the people who considers handheld gaming not gaming, I work on handhelds for god sakes. I was proposing the sort of mind set that Zeal might be coming from, and that I've heard before, mostly from people who work on bleeding edge consoles.

This whole debate is only dumb because people ignore the obvious classifications and differences in the two markets. People can close their eyes and pretend the NPD stats don't say "console" and "handheld", or that those words aren't used by employers when describing what game they're making, or by manufactures when describing, oh say, the DS. I don't recall Nintendo ever calling it their "DS console". They can say that they're too ignorant of the market to know these things, or know that different features sell in handhelds than in consoles, or that certain ideas work in handhelds and don't work in consoles, but it must only be out of a desire to perpetuate this stupid debate.

And hey people can even pretend that what I'm saying is that every handheld game is a certain way and every console game is a certain way. And they're completely different and share no similarities, but that's just them not bothering to read what I'm saying. Apparently you think every game is interactive entertainment because you played Zork. Congratulations. The people I was talking about want every game to be interactive entertainment, did Zork do that? Did I miss something?

Good lord.

[Zeal]

This entire debate is absolute horseshit. Everyone in this thread already acknowledges that consoles and handhelds are regarded as different mediums. It's just an attempt to justify the handheld market as an equally important medium.

Then again, developers don't form their business strategies around handheld releases. Why? Because it's all about the console market, as it has always been.

It's like saying Microsoft would release Halo 3 exclusively on a handheld. Get some common sense. A better comparison would be trying to compare DS releases to PS3 or 360 games.

[Harlan Hoyt]

I know a couple people who don't think handheld games are real games. That's because they view games as interactive entertainment instead of toys, and the kind of experiences you get with handhelds are generally more in the toy/arcade game range than something that's like an interactive movie or book. I don't know if this is where Zeal's coming from (maybe he can explain) but I can sort of see their point of view on this, they just have a desire for the heritage of gaming (retro) to be extinguished in favor of the new era of interactive entertainment.

What, exactly, is the part of that statement where you distance yourself from the "handheld = not real games" argument? You can "kinda sorta see" how people would like to jettison the first twenty years of videogames? Wow, way to strike out on a bold new path, my friend.

[Zeal]

I'm sorry, but this Achillies guy is one of the only people I've seen presenting clear, totally understandable viewpoints.

To clarify (for the dimmer bulbs), my argument is that the handheld and console markets are considered seperate for a reason. The technology surrounding handhelds is just now progressing to the point where their games can be comparable to console productions, like the PSP, for example.

The reason I do not consider handheld systems a viable medium for videogames is that the technology is still in its infancy. Sure, developers can create ports or scaled down versions of their console productions, but this isn't the same as playing the original experience.

[Achilles]

What, exactly, is the part of that statement where you distance yourself from the "handheld = not real games" argument? You can "kinda sorta see" how people would like to jettison the first twenty years of videogames? Wow, way to strike out on a bold new path, my friend.Ok, I see where you got mixed up. I can see why they'd want to because they didn't like retro gaming in the first place. Usually these people didn't play SNES games because they thought they were shallow and useless. They hung out on the PC and played about 1 game a year that they actually enjoyed until hardware started to get more powerful and offer more of what they were looking for. You don't need to agree with someone in order to see why they think what they do.

If Zeal doesn't think handheld games are real games, that's what he thinks, maybe you can't see why he thinks that way. I can even though I don't agree. If you only like certain kinds of games and those kind of games aren't made for handhelds, why is it so strange that they wouldn't like handheld games? What if he only liked text based adventure games? Is he going to have great love for modern game consoles? Is he going to consider anything that they do 'real gaming'? He's even presented his argument much more clearly than "I just don't like it", maybe you don't agree with what he says about developer priorities and what drives the market, but folks should debate that, not whether the GBA is a console or console games are the exact same things as handheld games.

[Zeal]

I don't want people to get the impression that I do not acknowledge games like the Monkey Island series, Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, etc. On the contrary, those are actually some of my favorite games ever.

I don't think it has anything to do with the argument I've presented.

Handheld games are also 'real' games (whatever that means), but that isn't the argument here. The argument was that console and handheld games are completely different markets, which is fact. Handheld games are also not the games that drive the industry, which is also fact. If they were, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft would focus exclusively on handheld software.

[Durandal-217]

I haven't posted before, but after reading this entire thread, I must admit...Zeal just owned you all.

[Harlan Hoyt]

Okay, I'm drunk and I'm tired. I'm going to bed, but I just want to say this. I have no interest in arguing about Nintendo's market share -- I could care less. I like their games. I can't wait for the Revolution. Even if it didn't have what sounds like an amazing controller, I would look forward to it, because I like (and always have) Nintendo games. That being said, I think the whole console/handheld argument was stupid from the word go and that's what I was trying to point out. We're getting hung up on terminology. "Console" is shorthand for the larger, settop devices they sell -- "Handhelds" are shorthand for "handheld consoles" -- things you don't plug into your television, but hold in your hand (hence, obviously, the name). Now, maybe I'm getting old, but I grew up playing NES and SNES games -- I love them dearly, and I love the play style that the GBA and the DS bring me -- there's nothing like that going on in games right now. "Mario vs Donkey Kong" was an amazing game -- I don't know if I've enjoyed a game so much in the last five years.

The real argument (as far as I can tell anymore, at this point and after so much whiskey) is that Zeal was saying that Nintendo cannot succeed unless they follow the pattern laid out by Sony/MS. And I'm saying that he's missing the point, Nintendo is trying a completely differnt strategy -- they are trying to create a much large, more inclusive market for games, a market that can support both "Halo" and "GTA," as well as small, crazy art games. And I think that'd be amazing. And, personally, I think they can do it.

Also, PS, Zeal, have you considered the DS's capabillities to play graphic adventures? That is absolutly, all time, my favorite ever genre of games, and it's just completely dead. If LucasArts would rerelease "The Secret of Monkey Island," "Day of the Tentacle," "Sam & Max Hit the Road" for the DS, I would buy them all in a heartbeat. I mean, graphic adventures? The stylus? Am I crazy or am I the only one who sees the possibilities?

[Stormwatcher]

Handheld games are also 'real' games (whatever that means), but that isn't the argument here. The argument was that console and handheld games are completely different markets, which is fact. Handheld games are also not the games that drive the industry, which is also fact. If they were, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft would focus exclusively on handheld software.

Zeal, I won't go into the whole consoles vs handhelds onthology issue, it is a moot point.

But you make a pretty fucking big jump in logic here. You say that the fact that the major 3 doesn't focus ENTIRELY on handhelds proves they aren't important in the business sense? absurd.

Handhelds and consoles are two parts of a single market: Gaming. Two entirelly different markets would be automobiles and pencils. Or crude oil and televisions. I repeat: handhelds (secondary) and consoles (primary) are two parts of the SAME market: GAMES. Just like luxury cars and smaller, cheaper cars are part of the car industry (latu sensu).

Your other argument also makes NO sense: Handheld gaming is not viable because it is in its infancy? erm, something which is not viable simply WON'T WORK EVER. Handheld gaming is not in an earlier stage than consoles... IT is actually pretty fucking full of vitality and strenghth right now.

I agree with you that handhelds are, market-wise, secondary to the consoles. But simply discarding them from an industry analysis is plain and simple stupidity.

And, PLEASE, stop making leaps of logic. The proposition that handhelds are secondary in no way leads to your insane conclusions.

[TheBrainKills]

Was that an attempt to do an impression of me or are you just joining the fanclub? Go fuck yaself, nub cake.

And besides, I maintain the balance in threads like these. Without me, Evil Avatar would have turned into the fuckin' Mushroom Kingdom by now.

hehe bingo. see how stupid you look.

Back on topic. You cannot seperate the 2 markets from Nintendo or Sonys strategies, why? because it all comes down to the bottem line. If Nintendo didn't have their handheld gaming consoles then they would have released another home console already. Face it they are making a hellava lot a money off of it, which allows them alot of flexibility. Why do you think Sony entered the handheld market, they didn't do it just for fun. The reason MS hasn't entered it yet is that its still to early for them, they want to focus on the home market first and they are still bleeding from the first round they entered.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Did you even correctly read his post?


Yes, and I responded to his question. Are you going to continue being an ass to pretty much everyone?


Was that an attempt to do an impression of me or are you just joining the fanclub? Go fuck yaself, nub cake.

And besides, I maintain the balance in threads like these. Without me, Evil Avatar would have turned into the fuckin' Mushroom Kingdom by now.


Oh, guess that answers that question then.

I pray to Peach that one day you realize that you are nothing but a petulant child trying to rain on everyone's parade.


The reason I do not consider handheld systems a viable medium for videogames is that the technology is still in its infancy. Sure, developers can create ports or scaled down versions of their console productions, but this isn't the same as playing the original experience.

In a post after this you claim to not be saying that handheld games are not real games, but then right in this post I just quoted you say that they are not in fact a viable medium for gaming. Which is it?

I think you're just a graphics whore. You're last several posts about handheld "non-games" makes that quite clear.


Handheld and Console are two categories of game, both are similar but have lots of defining features. That's my opinion anyway. Do you work on console games Mr. Gnome? (in case you're wondering about the "Mr.", I just know I'll screw up "Magnanimous" if I have to type it)


I definitely agree that there are some differences between the majority of handheld titles and the majority of console titles (in the current generation at least). However, this still doesn't make handheld consoles any less than just that. "Handhelds" is quite obviously short for "Handheld gaming system" or more simply "Handheld console". Hence again why the GBA is basically a handheld SNES, a handheld console.

Nope, I am in college actually, and currently unemployed. :(

[mister_slim]

Could be, it’s been hard to find numbers lately, do you have a source on those numbers? But that doesn't make the Evil Avatar console ownership statistic any more accurate, I don’t see Sony in last place there either.
I wasn't contesting the EvAv not equivalent to general gaming populace argument. Here's the best I can do: GC approx. 20 mil, from their own data, as of this spring. PS2 92 mil, as of July. Xbox 22-23 mil, no citable source.
I would describe a hand held as a portable game system and a console as a home game system that plugs into your TV. They're both game systems, they're not both consoles, just like you don't call a pair of head phones your "speakers", or your walkman a "stereo". They use different tech, different teams, and cater to a different market.

And the skills needed to make handheld games diverge quite a bit more from the ones required to make console games than you may think. Our company makes both. I came from one field and now I work in the other so I notice the differences every day in how people approach a problem.
We could also use phones as an analog. Land lines and cells are both phones, but obviously one is more mobile. While the skills are obviously different, they are converging in odd ways. Interface-wise the DS is more like a PC than any current handheld or home system. Graphics-wise the PSP is more like a home system. I do see your point though.
Because that is the commonly accepted industry terminology used to describe a game system. Stop posting stupid fucking arguments, people.
So, any game system is a console? (Why do you keep screwing up your own arguments?)

Then again, developers don't form their business strategies around handheld releases. Why? Because it's all about the console market, as it has always been.
Hmm. Nintendo, Sony, THQ, EA, Sega, Namco, Capcom are all examples of companies with handheld releases as a significant part of their business strategies.

The reason I do not consider handheld systems a viable medium for videogames is that the technology is still in its infancy. Sure, developers can create ports or scaled down versions of their console productions, but this isn't the same as playing the original experience.
And you're still wrong. Pokemon requires a handheld, for example. As does WarioWare: Twisted. Location based games are also becoming fairly popular, if not in the US yet.

[Zeal]

Pokemon was a fad, and as for

So, any game system is a console? (Why do you keep screwing up your own arguments?

Uh, no...he asked why everyone refers to consoles as "consoles" and I responded by saying it is the accepted terminology. I didn't mention handhelds, which are called..uh..handhelds.

I agree with you that handhelds are, market-wise, secondary to the consoles. But simply discarding them from an industry analysis is plain and simple stupidity

I didn't discard them from an "industry analysis", I simply said they weren't in the same market as console games. They are secondary, just as you and I said. They are not the driving force of the industry.

[Achilles]

I definitely agree that there are some differences between the majority of handheld titles and the majority of console titles (in the current generation at least). However, this still doesn't make handheld consoles any less than just that. "Handhelds" is quite obviously short for "Handheld gaming system" or more simply "Handheld console". Hence again why the GBA is basically a handheld SNES, a handheld console.

Nope, I am in college actually, and currently unemployed. :(Well that sucks. Get a job ya hippie! :)

I've never heard anyone outside of this thread call them "handheld consoles". A console is something you plug into your TV. "handheld consoles" to me sounds like "flashlight lamp", but whatever, I'll just leave you folks to your strangeness.

On the issue of power, the GBA is quite a little beast, though I would like more sprite alpha channels and the ability for games to recognize which incarnation of the GBA the game is running in. It’s similar to a SNES, but it’s still got an LCD screen and still functions like a handheld hardware wise. That lets us do some stuff that the SNES could never do by the way.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Pokemon was a fad


Which is of course why each Pokemon title continues to sell millions of copies and top the sales charts. :rolleyes:

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Well that sucks. Get a job ya hippie! :)


I'm lazy okay??!! :o


I don't hear them called "handheld consoles" either, because pretty much everyone just shortens it down. I also don't see people type "laugh out loud" in AIM, they just use LOL. Not exactly the same, but still.

Either way it really isn't worth arguing. Handhelds are a viable medium for games. Lots and lots of great games have been released on the Gameboy line.

[mister_slim]

Uh, no...he asked why everyone refers to consoles as "consoles" and I responded by saying it is the accepted terminology. I didn't mention handhelds, which are called..uh..handhelds.
So you are now arguing that handhelds are not game systems? Maybe you shouldn't try to argue semantics.