The Pros and Cons of Revolutionary Gaming

[AaronGF]

GamesFirst has two contrasting articles up about the Nintendo Revolution and whether or not Sony and Microsoft should be scared, and whether or not Nintendo is brilliant or just plain dumb. The first one is pro-Nintendo, pro-Revolution and is called, Why Nintendo Gets It, or Why Sony Should Start Trying (http://www.gamesfirst.com/index.php?id=682). The second one is written with a little less Nintendo enthusiasm than the first, presented as a counter-argument and questions Nintendo’s approach (http://www.gamesfirst.com/index.php?id=685) to gaming and gamers, piece-by-piece system expansion, and general insanity.

They’re interesting reads.

[HumpYourWay]

All those eager Nintendofans trying to smoothtalk that stupid controller... pathetic

[crashedout]

Good reads, the anti-rev one state that gamers stop playing some games because they don't want to press all those buttons(10) on the controller. Where did he pull that one from? I have never heard that. I have heard of poor use of all the buttons but when the controls are set up properly all those buttons have a proper use and make the game that much better.

[Taco]

I still think it's going top come with a standard controller that can plug into the porno wand thing. Most games will use a standard controller, some will use the wand thing and some will use other strange contraptions that can plug into the wand.

If all games used the wand the gimmick would get very old very quick, something I doubt is lost on Nintendo. They'll just hype the stick for marketing purposes.

[if76]

In response to the negative article's quote:
"I'm sure there will be plenty of fishing games, bowling games, sword-fighting games, drum simulators, and painting games when Nintendo launches the Revolution. These things all seem practical with the wand. First person shooters, fighting games, racing games, football games...not so much."

This is just baffling. Racing games!? What the hell do you need for a racing game other than a joystick, a gas button and a break button? A simple racing game could be controlled by nothing else but the analog stick attachment itself. Even with weapons, gearshifting, boost, etc it could a complex racing game could still be done on the Revolution. As far as first-person shooters go, all impressions of the controller so far say it's great for first-person shooters. If need be some functions can be taken out of sports games (do we really need seperate spin, jukes, and stiff-arm buttons?) and other revolution-specific ones could be added. If you treat the d-pad as 4 seperate buttons, I really can't think of a fighting game that couldn't be made either. This author is ignorant...just ignorant.

[mister_slim]

Two half-baked articles. No fact-checking, no spell-checking, and a noticeable lack of common sense.

That was a waste of my time.

[Ajezz]

I find it very interesting that the pro-Nintendo article implies the progression from Space Invaders to Halo is merely an evolutionary yet the progression in Nintendo's IP's (Zelda, Mario, etc) are much more innovative/revolutionary. It seems to me both are the results of incremental improvements over a 20+ time period (the only difference being other than nintendo IP's, no games have a direct lineage of sequels covering a 20 year time period).

[EGO]

Two half-baked articles. No fact-checking, no spell-checking, and a noticeable lack of common sense.

That was a waste of my time.

Isn't that really the state of all "videogame jounralism"?!? :rolleyes:

[MadHiro]

Can they do it? Well, let's put it this way: I know people who own a GameCube merely for The Legend of Zelda: The Windwaker. If Nintendo can survive on it's first party games--which it, arguably, has been doing with its GameCube--they will survive, sell Revolutions, and advance the industry in new and bold ways.

If they fail to deliver the content, if they alienate their 3rd parties, and if they miss their core audience, things could get messy. It is a time of risks for Nintendo. And it is an exciting time for us gamers.

The quote is from the second, "negative", article. Does anyone else see the obvious contradiction in the two paragraphs? In the first one, the author said that Nintendo has been surviving (and of course, by surviving, it should be said that they are in fact doing quite well) on only first party games. And then he turns around in the very next sentence, saying that without 3rd party support, that the Revolution is doomed.

Hump third party support. Even without it, the Revolution will have compelling, -new-, first party games and above all else Nintendo makes some of the best games out there. And, in the manner of all heresay that doesn't matter a wit but that I am repeating anyways, I've heard that developers are quite excited by the possiblities created by a wireless, motion sensitive controller.

All in all, sloppy articles filled only with rumor and opinions poorly disguised as the general sentiment of a larger group.

[RMan]

Yea, I still think they'll get more third-party support than they got since the SNES. The idea that developers won't make games on it because they don't have the same controller as the other two systems really misses the point.

[Kelegacy]

All those eager Nintendofans trying to smoothtalk that stupid controller... pathetic

You're pathetic for hating something you havent even held or played a game with yet. I'd call you a dickwad, but I'm better than that.

[Taco]

Do people really see themselves being content waving a stick at a TV game after game after game? Occasionally, sure, but a majority of the time?

[MadHiro]

All those eager Nintendofans trying to smoothtalk that stupid controller... pathetic
You're pathetic for hating something you havent even held or played a game with yet. I'd call you a dickwad, but I'm better than that.
Luckily, we aren't all better than that.

Hump, you are a dickwad.

[Kelegacy]

I just finally watched that teaser video for the Revolution and I can honestly say that any doubts i had about this controller are out the door. You dont need to wave the thing around like a moron, but some of the methods of use (especially the gun-mimic with the guy jumping up from behind the couch) were great. I honestly believe this controller IS a revolution. I cant believe that not even a year ago I was despising Nintendo...and then I got my Gamecube for Christmas and I changed my tune. I even warmed up to the DS, which I hated for the first few months of its life.

I can proudly say that I am once again a Nintendo fan.

[mister_slim]

Do people really see themselves being content waving a stick at a TV game after game after game? Occasionally, sure, but a majority of the time?
Well, why are you content pushing a little stick around when you could be lopping someones head off?

[MadHiro]

Do people really see themselves being content waving a stick at a TV game after game after game? Occasionally, sure, but a majority of the time?
Do people really see themselves being content pushing buttons on a pad in front of a TV game after game after game? Occassionaly, sure, but a majority of the time?

There isn't any inherent quality in a form of input. Its what you can do with it. So far, from the demos described, it sounds like you can do anything you'd want to in a game, input wise. So what'd be the difference between sitting in front of a TV using the remote and using a standard controller?

[RMan]

Do people really see themselves being content waving a stick at a TV game after game after game? Occasionally, sure, but a majority of the time?
The majority of games will not require that. If you buy a game that requires that kind of movement, it'll likely be because you want it. Nintendo isn't forcing games to use mechanics requiring a bunch of movement, they're only making it possible.

A little off topic, but anyone play an arcade game called Police 911? It tracks your body movement and requires you to move and duck behind stuff to dodge slow moving bullets while shooting back with a light gun. It's not much to look at and the gameplay isn't as tight as similar Sega arcade shooters, but the whole ducking and dodging thing made it one of the coolest games of it's type for me, would like to see that game ported to the system.

[TheKeck]

And then Nintendo went and announced that add-on peripherals to the controller were a-go. And then one (pictured below) mock-up from IGN surfaced. While silly. I don't think it's too far from the truth.

"While silly"??? From what I've read, IGN's mockup is EXACTLY what the Revolution is planning on doing for their classic add-on. This is just one example of some of the inane things said in these articles.

[Abednigo]

Do people really see themselves being content waving a stick at a TV game after game after game? Occasionally, sure, but a majority of the time?

You could use the same argument with the DS, but it's a weak argument.

Do people really see themselves being content using a stylus and touchpad to control game after game after game? Some games use it, some use it very well. Other games don't. It's there if they want to make a game for it.

For the Revolution I'm sure Nintendo will make plenty that will use those functions, but they'll offer plenty that don't. They proved that with the DS, which people thought was a goofy idea, but many have come around, myself included, and companies are anxious to see what different things they can do with the touchscreen.

Certainly we are going to have some really stupid uses for it and some really pathetic games. But we've had to suffer through those kinds of games for 20 years on all systems.

[midrael]

If you guys want a good article to read on Nintedo's strategy, Penny Arcade put up a link to a very insightful blog about that very thing. It's a big long but give it a read. I think it's one of the best gaming articles I've read.

http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html

[thecrazyd]

PA stole that from us. It was posted on here a couple of days ago. Bastards.

[TheKeck]

PA stole that from us. It was posted on here a couple of days ago. Bastards.

Hey, it's thanks to PA that I'm a loyal Evil Avatar-er today.

I don't think PA "stole" it from here, they are just also linking to it.

[midrael]

Ahhh I must have missed the article when it ran over here!

And yep, like TheKeck, the reason I'm an EA reader is because of PA! :)

[TheKeck]

Ahhh I must have missed the article when it ran over here!

And yep, like TheKeck, the reason I'm an EA reader is because of PA! :)

GO PA! :D

[thecrazyd]

Hey, it's thanks to PA that I'm a loyal Evil Avatar-er today.

I don't think PA "stole" it from here, they are just also linking to it.
Ditto, I was just kidding. That is also how I found EA.

[TheKeck]

Ditto, I was just kidding. That is also how I found EA.

After I posted my first response, I thought about the fact that you were probably mostly just kidding. Oh well, we're all happy in the end.
: overlysmarmysmilythatisnotavailabletome :

[falak]

I asked him, what if you wanted to turn around, how would the aiming function work then?I can only presume he means turn around in game. I imagine the analogue stick would control character movement while you could hold down a toggle button on the controller so controller movements then control the camera. Kind of like a keyboard and mouse, right Chrissy baby? Maybe you dismiss the toggle button altogether, with controller movements only affecting the camera and fixed sights in the centre, exactly like an FPS. Oh, what was that? "First person shooters, fighting games, racing games, football games...not so much?" He needs to use his imagination. How could he possibly know what the controller is and isn't good for?

If that's not what he meant, then I can't even understand it. Shit, I don't know. Maybe you're going to have to move the TV and the two little sensors to where you're now facing, otherwise you'll miss your target because you've aimed at your fucking cat. It'll continue to function correctly and you'll miss, because you're now aiming at the TV with your arse. I'm presuming his eyes are indeed in the front of his head, and one should never make presumptions. Although to be fair, that's probably not what he meant. :p

[Kelegacy]

Ahhh I must have missed the article when it ran over here!

And yep, like TheKeck, the reason I'm an EA reader is because of PA! :)

Yeah, it's how I found it too. Me and a thousand other guys.

[Nessus]

The only good argument against FPS games working with the Rev controller I've seen is that with a mouse you can pick and and put down the mouse when you run out of space to recenter which is impossible with the Rev controller.

But one solution I heard of would be sorta like the little icon that comes up when you click the wheel on a wheel mouse.

The majority of the center of the screen would be a certain ratio to your movements, but at the peripheries it'd start automatically scrolling untill you moved it back towards the center. That way you could turn around very quickly, but also not have to dedicate a button to enable/disable aiming for re-centering the controller, which of course is the other option.

Also I think racing games could work quite well if you held the controller like an NES controller and merely tilted it like a steering wheel to turn. The B trigger on the back may or may not be accessable by your left index finger, but you've still got the d-pad for shifting gears, and lower case a and b for accelleration and brakes. It'd work even better with a steering wheel attatchment.

One thing I find is that a lot of people complain about how Nintnedo is just going to try and sell a bunch of add ons.

While that's possible and they have done it in the past, not so much lately. The bongos came with Donkey Konga, the mic came with Mario Party, the Rumble Pack even came with Star Fox 64. And in most of those cases there was only a minor increase in the cost of the game, certainly not the same as if they'd sold them seperately.

I figure if they released a steering wheel add on, it'd be shipped with a game.

All I know is I'm interested to see what they do with it. I haven't spent so much time thinking about the possibilities of a controller since... ever.

[falak]

Also I think racing games could work quite well if you held the controller like an NES controller and merely tilted it like a steering wheel to turn.Well, we all used to do it. Go on, admit it.

[PantherModern]

I think one thing that some people are overlooking about 3rd party support is that Nintendo has stated several times that they intend for game development and design on the Revolution to be simple and, more importantly to big publishers, cheap. The Lost Garden article estimates that N spends roughly 850,000 dollars per title on Gamecube, while an Xbox game costs 1.6 million or higher. If N sticks to their guns and keeps the costs to develop for their platform down, then publishers will be drawn to it for the simlpe fact that they can sell fewer units and still make a profit. Or, the Rev will become a dumping ground (in a good way) for games that publishers don't want to sink a lot of money into and are willing to take a marginal risk on. So, we might see innovative games on the system from all kinds of publishers. Can you imagine a Katamari Damacy game with that controller? Personally, I think that would rule.

[Worldcrafter]

Did we all start reading EA because Penny-Arcade linked to it once? I know I did, and I'm not sure what I did with my time before then. This is the first site I go to in the morning. Screw email.

Back on topic: I really can't understand people who are so down on the Revolution controler. Not one of us has even gotten a chance to use it, yet we dismiss it like we know what to expect. I know what to expect from the Xbox360 controler, since it's largely the same as the Xbox controler. I know what to expect from the PS3 controler, since it's largely the same as the PS2. I have no idea what to expect from the Revolution controler, no previous experience to base it on. It sounds like a neat concept, and if executed well in games, it could truely be a revolution in videogames. I can't wait to give it a try and see what it can do.

Some of you make it sound like there can only be one console. I own all three of the current consoles, and have for several years. I expect that I will, one by one, buy all three of the next gen consoles too. What will people do when they don't want to wave their Revolution controler in the air any more? Probably sit down and play their 360, or PS3.

[Taco]

I started reading EA well before I discovered Penny-Arcade. I'm sure I found my way here through a combination of links from Blues, Stomped(RIP) and VE.

[TheKeck]

Did we all start reading EA because Penny-Arcade linked to it once? I know I did, and I'm not sure what I did with my time before then. This is the first site I go to in the morning. Screw email.


Actually, I recall Penny-Arcade referring to it several times, before I actually took a good look at it. Scary to think I might have missed it forever! :eek:

[Kelegacy]

Actually, I recall Penny-Arcade referring to it several times, before I actually took a good look at it. Scary to think I might have missed it forever! :eek:

Gamespot has referred to it a few times too, so I'm sure I would have came here eventually. A name like Evil Avatar doesnt exactly scream "GAMING NEWS!" I'm glad I came though, because I've met some incredibly intelligent people here and this place is full of likeminded gamers who I can actually chat with about games and news. My friends around here would rather circle jerk on a dead deer wearing a NASCAR shirt.

[TheBigL]

I couldnt even finish reading the first article. It was wrote by a Nintendo loving and caring person (aka fanboy). It was althouth I was reading an arcticle about girl writing about her hair.

The second arctile was interesting, posting a couple perspective points of view.

If you too lazy too read both, read the second 1.

[Liquidize105]

I thought the pro-article was common sense and the con-article was kinda flakey when I approved it.

Buuut it's tough to divine what the reader reaction would be, so yeah :)

[Draft]

I'm really just not buying the whole "revolution" deal.

The controller looks very neat. I am sure Nintendo will make neat games with it, possibly even great games. The Revolution will have a place in the next generation of consoles.

But jesus christ, drop the hyperbole. No, gamepads are not going to be supplanted by magic remotes in 5 years. They shouldn't be. There is room for the new AND the old. Remember the NES? Came with a pad and a gun. Who knows, maybe the next gen of consoles will all have pads and magic remotes. Or maybe they won't.

But seriously. Look, if you're not having fun with games now, don't bet on a gyroscope with an oversized A button to rekindle the flame. It's still just an input device, a medium through which silicon challenges sinew and brain fiber. Don't bet on this to "save" gaming, as if it needed saving in the first place.

[Zeal]

Not a single game has been shown for this console. Period.

Everything that has been said thus far is fanboy hype.

[thecrazyd]

I'm really just not buying the whole "revolution" deal.

The controller looks very neat. I am sure Nintendo will make neat games with it, possibly even great games. The Revolution will have a place in the next generation of consoles.

But jesus christ, drop the hyperbole. No, gamepads are not going to be supplanted by magic remotes in 5 years. They shouldn't be. There is room for the new AND the old. Remember the NES? Came with a pad and a gun. Who knows, maybe the next gen of consoles will all have pads and magic remotes. Or maybe they won't.

But seriously. Look, if you're not having fun with games now, don't bet on a gyroscope with an oversized A button to rekindle the flame. It's still just an input device, a medium through which silicon challenges sinew and brain fiber. Don't bet on this to "save" gaming, as if it needed saving in the first place.
Five bucks says the gen after next, everyone will have motion tracking. Maybe not used in the exact same manner, but controllers will not last forever. This is the Revolution I was hoping for.

[Zeal]

Five bucks says the gen after next, everyone will have motion tracking. Maybe not used in the exact same manner, but controllers will not last forever. This is the Revolution I was hoping for.

Such as this person, who is a notorious Nintendo fanboy of EE.

[TheBigL]

Not a single game has been shown for this console. Period.

Everything that has been said thus far is fanboy hype.

What about metreoid (or something like that, Never liked that ball like game anyway) that was redone to be used with the controller? They used it in the show.

[thecrazyd]

Such as this person, who is a notorious Nintendo fanboy of EE.
I am no fanboy. My first Nintendo console was the GameCube. The Rev's controller is just something that makes sense, just like the analogue stick. If they can pull it off, and based on past performance, I feel they can, then this will be imitated.

[Draft]

I am no fanboy. My first Nintendo console was the GameCube. The Rev's controller is just something that makes sense, just like the analogue stick. If they can pull it off, and based on past performance, I feel they can, then this will be imitated.Yeah, no shit. If it's popular, it will be imitated. But it will not replace gamepads. The very notion is ridiculous. As if we're just going to throw away 30 years of game development because Nintendo comes up with a new controller.
This is the Revolution I was hoping for.What? No, seriously, what? You've never used the thing. You've never even SEEN someone use it, except for the ridiculously happy people in Nintendo's commercial. This is the kind of statement that makes dealing with Nintendo fanatics so frustrating.

[TheBrainKills]

Not a single game has been shown for this console. Period.

Everything that has been said thus far is fanboy hype.

Everyone else can now quit posting Zeal has spoken, the Revolution is a figment of our minds. Thank God he's here to set us strait.

I saw a poll on a site that had a 10 to 1 ratio for people who like the controller to those who don't. Considering that those are hardcore gamers the casual gamers will have no problem recognizing the fun factor in it.

[TheBrainKills]

Yeah, no shit. If it's popular, it will be imitated. But it will not replace gamepads. The very notion is ridiculous. As if we're just going to throw away 30 years of game development because Nintendo comes up with a new controller.

um isn't it still a game pad, it just looks like a remote. Hell they are going to have an adapter so that it turns into a regular pad with all those standard dohickey's that you change'a'phobics like. They will probably have a selection in game where you can use the motion pointer or standard controller. I really don't see what the big deal is.

[thecrazyd]

Yeah, no shit. If it's popular, it will be imitated. But it will not replace gamepads. The very notion is ridiculous. As if we're just going to throw away 30 years of game development because Nintendo comes up with a new controller.
What? No, seriously, what? You've never used the thing. You've never even SEEN someone use it, except for the ridiculously happy people in Nintendo's commercial. This is the kind of statement that makes dealing with Nintendo fanatics so frustrating.
Am I claiming to have used it? No. This is something that greatly increases precision, and makes keyboard and mouse-esqe control on a console, except with an extra dimension.

[Draft]

Am I claiming to have used it? No. This is something that greatly increases precision, and makes keyboard and mouse-esqe control on a console, except with an extra dimension.I would argue that it doesn't replicate mouse/keyboard style control, unless your keyboard only has 5 buttons.

[TheBrainKills]

I would argue that it doesn't replicate mouse/keyboard style control, unless your keyboard only has 5 buttons.

wasd plus the space bar for jumping a button for reload thats about all you need. Yup 5 buttons.

oops I mean 6.

[Kelegacy]

Not a single game has been shown for this console. Period.

Everything that has been said thus far is fanboy hype.

And everything out of your mouth tends to be laced with blind hatred and unwavering ignorance.

I agree, no games have been shown yet, but we are talking about the potential of this system. It IS an innovative concept, maybe revolutionary in terms of console gaming, but of course it's not supposed to supplant standard controller gaming as a whole. This will give new experiences to gamers and give them a whole new way to play a game. It will create immersion that an ordinary controller cant quite touch. Swinging a sword or aiming a gun with a button and stick or an instrument that can be a sword hilt, a gun stock, and a baseball bat all in one? Certain genres will excel with the Revolution controller. Every genre can be played, but it will cater to a certain group of games and styles and do them incredibly well.

I'm still curious as to how the next Mario will work.

[TheBrainKills]

I'm still curious as to how the next Mario will work.


But Mario's a kiddie game... all those colors ... burns my eye's. :(

[Draft]

wasd plus the space bar for jumping a button for reload thats about all you need. Yup 5 buttons.

oops I mean 6.I use way more than 5. Even a simple game like Painkiller uses 10 for weapon switching, movement and special moves.

But ignoring your obvious troll of a response, 4 fingers using 4 different keys to control movement is much more precise than one thumb.

[Kelegacy]

I am no fanboy. My first Nintendo console was the GameCube. The Rev's controller is just something that makes sense, just like the analogue stick. If they can pull it off, and based on past performance, I feel they can, then this will be imitated.

Don't mind him, d. The word fanboy gets thrown around here like it's semen shooting onto a nerd's keyboard. Because you are interested in a next-gen controller does not make you a fanboy. If I'm a fanboy, it would probably be a Sony fanboy, at least according to the people here because I don't hate the company and have been very happy with the last two Sony systems. I respect Nintendo's decision to do something different here, and because of that I get labeled a fanboy tool, as well.

And Draft, just because people havent actually held the controller doesn't mean they cant see that this DOES change gaming, not completely and not revolutionizing the entire industry just yet, but for a specfic platform. It's going against the grain, something that Sony and Microsoft would never attempt if they released another 5 consecutive consoles.

And every system has their crazy blind dude with wild hair, shaking his hands at the sky, spittle forming at the edges of his mouth. Why, just the other day I witnessed some forum member trying to tell us that a Gears of War rendition was an actual ingame screenshot. :rolleyes:

[Kelegacy]

But Mario's a kiddie game... all those colors ... burns my eye's. :(

I honestly hope you are kidding. Colors are...bad? Mario is for children? Wow, that makes this 24 year old a regular adult-aged retard, huh?

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Such as this person, who is a notorious Nintendo fanboy of EE.



Not to mention that Zeal, the notorious T.R.O.L.L. of EA.




Kelegacy - You crack me up man. I love you.

[Draft]

And Draft, just because people havent actually held the controller doesn't mean they cant see that this DOES change gaming, not completely and not revolutionizing the entire industry just yet, but for a specfic platform. It's going against the grain, something that Sony and Microsoft would never attempt if they released another 5 consecutive consoles.

And every system has their crazy blind dude with wild hair, shaking his hands at the sky, spittle forming at the edges of his mouth. Why, just the other day I witnessed some forum member trying to tell us that a Gears of War rendition was an actual ingame screenshot. :rolleyes:Yes, so revolutionary they're releasing a shell that accomodates good old fashioned pad style gaming. This "changes" gaming as much as a Sidewinder 3D joystick.

Ah yes, stodgy old Sony and Microsoft. Sony, who released a CAMERA controller. Microsoft, who licensed a game with a fucking SWITCHBOARD for a controller. Yep, mean old *** and $ony, only out to shovel crappy generic games and steal my hard earned money!

Oh, btw, in case you were asleep all last weekend, Sony showed MGS4 at the Tokyo Game Show. It looks as good, if not better, than Gears of War. Kojima manipulated the game, on stage. It was running in real time.

Don't be passive aggresive. It's a shitty way to argue with people.

[TheBrainKills]

I use way more than 5. Even a simple game like Painkiller uses 10 for weapon switching, movement and special moves.

But ignoring your obvious troll of a response, 4 fingers using 4 different keys to control movement is much more precise than one thumb.

How was my comment trolling? weapon switching can be done by the scroll mouse, map another function to the right mouse button, another to the scroll button. But whatever.. the whole argument was if you can replicate the keyboard/mouse controls with the controller, you, by saying it can't map all the keys on a keyboard are spliting hairs, and trolling far deeper than I. I just suggested that it can map the most important ones.

Yes I was kidding about the colors ... I prefer to have more colors in my games.

[thecrazyd]

Yes, so revolutionary they're releasing a shell that accomodates good old fashioned pad style gaming. This "changes" gaming as much as a Sidewinder 3D joystick.

Ah yes, stodgy old Sony and Microsoft. Sony, who released a CAMERA controller. Microsoft, who licensed a game with a fucking SWITCHBOARD for a controller. Yep, mean old *** and $ony, only out to shovel crappy generic games and steal my hard earned money!

Oh, btw, in case you were asleep all last weekend, Sony showed MGS4 at the Tokyo Game Show. It looks as good, if not better, than Gears of War. Kojima manipulated the game, on stage. It was running in real time.

Don't be passive aggresive. It's a shitty way to argue with people.
The camera that is used for three games. The switchboard (I assume you are talking about the Steel Batallion controller) that is used for one. They are including the shell to satisfy ludites who are scared of anything that is not 2 analogues, 4 buttons, and 4 shoulders. If you do not see the potential, then you are blind.

[Draft]

It really is super frustrating to talk the Revolution. Any comment less enthusiastic than, "OMG THANK YOU NINTENDO YOU'VE SAVED GAMING HOLY SHIT I WANT TO BE A JEDI" is construed as negative.

Noooo, say something like, "it looks neat and will probably have neat games" isn't good enough. You practically need to strip naked, paint yourself gamecube purple and start doing a interpretive dance in honor of Itawa.If you do not see the potential, then you are blind.Who doesn't see the potential? Where'd I say that? Point it out.

If you dismiss the gamepad because Nintendo's had a neat idea, you're an idiot.

I also like the concept that I'm "scared" of not having a standard gamepad. Oh no, no more dual shock! What am I gonna do?! One big button! This is madness! MADNESS!

[HalLoco]

Everyone is enthusiastic about the possibilities that this controller brings to the table. This opens a whole new world of gaming potential that has never been possible, or even imagined before. It's this potential that has people exited about what the future holds. Anyone with an imagination can see what might be just around the corner. That's part of what Nintendo is banking on with this new controller. Planting that seed of thought, and letting us all think about all the things that this controller makes possible, which is quite a lot.

However, that's just it. It's all just possibilities. Nothing is concrete yet. No one knows, first-hand, how well the remote controller will do what Nintendo says it will do when it's finally complete. I know plenty of things that I've seen in my lifetime that I thought would be great, but when I tried it first-hand it left much to be desired. It's as though we have the blueprints for a fantastic new home, and the foundation has just been set. It looks great, and it can be great, but the home isn't finished yet, there's a lot of work ahead, and a lot can go horribly wrong.

So when optimists say that this is going to be fantastic, they're right. The possibilities that this controller brings is pretty damn fantastic.

And when pessimists say that it's only possibilities, and not yet a fact, they're right too. Nintendo even said that there might be modifications before they release the final product.

Myself? This new controller has my imagination on full tilt, and I can't wait to see what developers do with it. If this controller performs as well as the reviewers and Nintendo say it will, then I'm really looking forward to it, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[RMan]

I would argue that it doesn't replicate mouse/keyboard style control, unless your keyboard only has 5 buttons.
It doesn't replicate it, but it doesn't have to, it can do fps control slightly different and possibly way better (certainly WAY better than a gamepad). With the analog thumbstick and two button attachment it'd offer likely more versatility in a very intuitive way. Basically, you could have forward/backward/sidestep done with the analog thumbstick (sensitivity allowing walk/run differentiation). Jump, hop left/right, and duck can be done with the digital pad on the main controller, the trigger obviously the fire button. Aiming and turning done with the main pointing device, with turning kicking in when the controller is pointed well outside the screen (kinda like the scrolling in a PC based RTS), also adjusting to the amount the controller is outside the screen to adjust turn speed. Tilting the controller left and right can also be used for a very intuitive and sensitive leaning. The triggers on the analog attachment can be used for alternate fire and one to pop up a selection screen that will let you point to the weapon you want to switch to, as well as whatever other special functions the game wants to supply (like waypoint setting on a map, communication, health/repair pack access, etc.)

There you go, a fully functional FPS system with more functionality than the gamepad driven versions, and done in a way that will likely be more intuitive to the average player. This doesn’t even touch on controller gestures, and doesn’t use the 3D positioning of the controller, or go into melee/thrown weapons or insanely increased physics interaction that the controller will allow, so you boneheads complaining about not getting your traditional games and how the controller won’t change games can just shut up now (and just think what talented developers who have thought about it for MORE than 3 days will come up with).

[Draft]

I'm not discounting ANY possibilities. If you want to sit there and imagine new fun games on the Rev go right ahead.

It's the crazies who want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Kelegacy]

Yes, so revolutionary they're releasing a shell that accomodates good old fashioned pad style gaming. This "changes" gaming as much as a Sidewinder 3D joystick.

Ah yes, stodgy old Sony and Microsoft. Sony, who released a CAMERA controller. Microsoft, who licensed a game with a fucking SWITCHBOARD for a controller. Yep, mean old *** and $ony, only out to shovel crappy generic games and steal my hard earned money!

Oh, btw, in case you were asleep all last weekend, Sony showed MGS4 at the Tokyo Game Show. It looks as good, if not better, than Gears of War. Kojima manipulated the game, on stage. It was running in real time.

Don't be passive aggresive. It's a shitty way to argue with people.

Who's being passive aggressive? I didn't attempt to be, I'm usually just passive.

It's not really Sony and MS who shovel generic crap at me, it's the developers and publishers, but with the Revolution, at least for the ones that flock to the system, will probably attempt something unique or at least give you a different way of controlling the game. Sony and MS's systems dont really leave room to innovate for developers in regards to hardware--they are updated versions of current-gen systems.

I think I'm excited about this controller (not overly so, but I'm highly interested) because it will hopefully increase gamer immersion, whereas you can only be so immersed in a game where you are controlling your avatar with buttons. Gamepads have worked gloriously for 30 years, and the Revolution can still work as a normal pad, but this is a toe in the water of progression for the future. VR will never come to us if people dont at least attempt strides. This is far from VR, but it has an controller that can double for a gameworld item, weapon, etc. Maybe if they had truly developed the ON headset, it would be a much greater stride (barring any Virtual Boy repeats). Who knows, maybe a funtional headset will come in future decades, using a controller that Nintendo's Revolution inspired. It's a wild leap from the current situation, but it's wishful thinking.

[Stormwatcher]

as long as nintendo makes the nunchaku work like that video, it WILL be a revolution. Like Mario 64 was.

That being said, I have to grant that the nunchaku WON'T eliminate the usual pad, nor will it SAVE gaming.

IF the nunchaku works right (and really hope it will), it will be the best FPS control scheme ever. Instead of pressing a button to crouch, you lower the wand. Instead of pressing two different buttons to lean right or left, you move the thing right or left.

BTW, the analog thumb stick is REALLY more precise than the WASD keys. The whole advantage of the WASD+Mouse thing is NOT WASD, it is the mouse. Considering that the nunchaku combines an über 3d-6-deegrees-of-freedom pointing device with the analog stick, it offers the best of both words. Instead of pressing extra buttons to run or sneak, just graduate how far you're pushing the stick.

OF course I haven't tried the thing. But nintendo has a tradition of excellent implementation of control inovations (d-pad, rumble, analog stick, touch screen, bongos, shoulder buttons...).

I described the nunchaku for a female friend of mine who likes games, but hates controllers full of buttons, and she was ecstatic. She remarked "what an obvious idea, why didn't anyone think of it before?". She is not a gamer, and she loved it. I am a gamer, I really like gaming. and I was also very excited with all the possibilities. I believe that the revolution is appealing to both casual and hardcore-but-non-hater gamers.

But that all hinges on nintendo getting it right. And I think they will.

[TheBrainKills]

I'm not discounting ANY possibilities. If you want to sit there and imagine new fun games on the Rev go right ahead.

It's the crazies who want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

In your first post you told us to stop the "hyperbole", now you are telling us we can start?
And why do you call the new controller a remote? Because it obviously is a gamepad shaped to look like a remote, but that could change, and probably will. I guess you could call all gamepads remotes tho.
Just because you don't buy into the "Revolution" doesn't mean that anyone who does is crazy, can't people get excited once and awhile?

Plus who are these crazies?

[Draft]

In your first post you told us to stop the "hyperbole", now you are telling us we can start?I guess I have to spell it out.

OK: I really like the idea of the revolution, and I'm very excited for the types of games it may make possible.

stretching it: I don't like games anymore, they're all boring and stupid, this controller will reignite my interest. I mean, you can say that if you want, but you sound kind of silly, since you've never touched the thing before, and it's likely that if you don't like gamecube/xbox/ps2 games, you won't like xbox360/ps3/revolution games. They are, after all, still games.

stupid fanboy bullshit: nintendo has redefined gaming and the gyroscopic remote is the future of videogame design. Fuck gamepads, they're old, and old things suck.

[Goronmon]

I wish a could read a Nintendo thread without someone explaining to people why they should be more negative...as if its a good thing...

Edit: Though, on that note, I could say that about any topic, haha...

[Montgomery_Python]

I use way more than 5. Even a simple game like Painkiller uses 10 for weapon switching, movement and special moves.

But ignoring your obvious troll of a response, 4 fingers using 4 different keys to control movement is much more precise than one thumb.

Have you ever used an analogue device?

Edit: Edited for nicety, but I see Draft is hot on the case for this thread

[Draft]

That has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Have you ever used an analogue device?Deeeeer, no, wutz and a log?

[Montgomery_Python]

Deeeeer, no, wutz and a log?

Sorry for being excessively curt in my previous comment but I really don't see WASD as anything other than a D-pad that takes 4 fingers instead of one.

And yeah, I'm playing Half-Life 2 atm (yeah I'm late) and I can just imagine how awesome it would be with mouse and analogue stick.

[Liquidize105]

I think it's safe to say that anything anyone can think of right off the top of his head, Nintendo's done their homework on it and worked it into their R&D.

Sooooooo that brings us to the damn point: Let's wait a year and see what Nintendo was thinking. For now, it's incredibly promising.

[ElectricMonk]

nintendo fanbois and haters can blog themselves silly for all i care

the proof will be in the pudding, as they say

[Bushido]

nintendo fanbois and haters can blog themselves silly for all i care

the proof will be in the pudding, as they say


What is this pudding everyone is talking about?

[Crabby]

Frankly, I don't want to have to point anything at the screen. I don't want to be required to position my arm in open space for any extended period of time. I want to be able to rest both hands comfortably as I (try) to enjoy the game itself.

Virtual reality? Yeah, great, sign me up. Even better if you can develop brain wave technology to go the final step in "immersion."

Swinging a controller at the screen to "simulate" a sword is not immersive, it is a hassle. It is the wrong medium for such requirements. I would easily expect such a thing from VR, not from a game console. I don't sit around and dream and wish I could do such a thing with console games. If and when I buy a DS it won't be because of the voice recognition technology in the unlikely event I may want to talk to myself while playing games.

I would very much enjoy such activities in the scope of a VR environment ...but a home console? Nah, that is just going to push me away entirely to PC gaming while the console market searches for its identity. The exploits of all three console makers are only serving to detract from the pure values that games embody with these gimmicks. The next generation is going to be absolutely saturated with trashy gimmick prototypes. Make a game, make a good game, I will be there to play it. I didn't ask for any of this.

I can easily see myself completely skipping this nonsense. I have a great computer and no one in the computer industry is looking to replace the mouse and keyboard with catheters anytime soon simply to see if it can be done.

So I'm packing my bags. Someone call me when we can snap voltage plugs into our ears and become fully "immersed" in games wherein the walls of my perception are reformed by art.

Because meeting such "immersion" halfway is only one step worse than cosplaying.

[Player 1]

Not a single game has been shown for this console. Period.

Everything that has been said thus far is fanboy hype.

Praise the lord - a slice of common, clear, thought in all this madness.

To everyone getting exciting about this (or any) hardware, or stating such undyling loyalty to a box of circuits I suggest you go off, buy your dream machine but NEVER buy any games for it. You're clearly tripping so wildly with just imagining what the hardware can do and basing such all-knowing, all-confident arguments on it that you should practice what you preach. Just play the hardware, don't play the games. See how much fun you have with that.

as long as nintendo makes the nunchaku work like that video, it WILL be a revolution. Like Mario 64 was.

Hardly, the progression from digital to analogue control is an evolution, not a revolution. Being so eager to chug down and regurgitating Nintendo hyperbole just sounds dumb.

I wrote an article [edit: not the article that this topic is talking about] criticising Revolution and got the equivalent of a goddamn fatwah served on me from Nintendo fanatics. It's just ridiculous. People aren't even able to think straight any more. The parallels to devotion to religion (belief vs facts or logic) are worryingly clear.

[disc]

That article and you posting it reeks of Fanboy.

[Player 1]

That article and you posting it reeks of Fanboy.

Cute - and depressingly predictable. I take heart in that although you assume your judgement is correct, I know it's not. But then, that's the attitude of so many people if *any* criticism is directed at the idol you worship then you don't counter it with reason - you just point the finger and call someone 'fanboy' 'hater' or something else.

I should be thanking you - you just proved me right. :p

(Incidentally, when I say "I wrote and article.." in my earlier post I'm not talking about the one that's linked to in the start of this topic).

[balamoor]

Well I bet the wand will be a huge hit in Japan..... especially in the porno gaming industry. :rolleyes:

[crackeriah]

What is this pudding everyone is talking about?
I believe the entire saying goes "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting." Which is to say, until someone has actually crammed a Revolution controller into their mouth, we're just speculating about how it might taste.

[QueQueg]

Which is to say, until someone has actually crammed a Revolution controller into their mouth, we're just speculating about how it might taste.

lolz

The only thing that bugs me about the rev controller is the on/off button. I'll be going through batteries like crazy (unless its rechargable.)

[HalLoco]

Just play the hardware, don't play the games. See how much fun you have with that.
Play the hardware, don't play the games? With all due respect, I don't understand what you're trying to say here. We play with the hardware by using it to interact with a game, ergo you need a game to play with the hardware. The way you wrote it made it sound as though you want us to take the controller outdoors and, I don't know, play catch with it or something. I'm sure that's not what you meant (or at least I hope it's not), but the thought made me chuckle. ^_^

[QueQueg]

You simply misunderstood. He was saying, basically, that hardware doesn't matter if the games suck.

To which I would agree, in that the only good reason to buy a new console is if there's a game (it only takes one, imo) that is so compelling that you can't stand not acquiring it, and playing it.

[HalLoco]

Hardware doesn't matter if the games suck. Truer words have never been spoken.

A console, any console, is only as good as the games that are released for it. I can agree with that whole-heartily.

[Stormwatcher]

And considering Nintendo's tradition of making some of the best games EVER, I'd rest assured that the Rev will rock. DS is just an example. I think the Rev will be even more succesful.