Metal Gear Solid 4 Video from TGS

[LouisWu]

Got-Next (http://www.got-next.com) has handheld video footage of the new trailer for Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. The intro claims that the footage is in real-time...

Check it out. (http://www.got-next.com/news_read.php?id=682)

The newly-subtitled Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns Of The Patriots is their heavy hitter for TGS 2005, and they prepared a spectacular trailer video to introduce the world to it with. We've gotten our grubby little mitts on it thanks to the miracle of the Intarweb (read: it leaked, heh), and well...if war is really hell, then Kojima's got the underworld humming beautifully for Solid Snake to fight in on the PlayStation 3.

[Arcon]

real time my black ass. Thoughts of Killzone 2 come rushing back

[FunkyPoopMonkey]

Severe dissapointment will set in once we actually see some GAMEPLAY of a PS3 game. Seeing that highly realistic, pixar-level of body animation, is ganna hurt us all the more once Snake reverts back to those robotic movements, given to us by the ps3 controller...

[zeeeg]

Yeah that's one thing about next-gen stuff that bothers me. All that graphical fidelity, but character animation looks jerky in all the real-time gameplay videos I've seen. From Madden to DoA4, Condemned, basically everything that's been shown so far. It's like watching some low-budget hong kong action flick where the guy punches air about 6 inches away from the other guy, and the other guy tumbles over unrealistically. Except it's extremely noticeable because everything else is in high quality.

[NELS]

No... old people are creepy. You can see through their hands...

[LiquidRain]

Do you guys think we are approaching the fabled uncanny valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley) with the next-gen systems?

[Kalash]

I saw a "gameplay" video of this earlier on G4, and I just have a really hard time believing that this is real time, and quite frankly, it irks me that they continually feel that they can pass this shit off as actual gameplay. They either are living in their own little fantasy world, or think we are immensely stupid.

yar.

[TheBigL]

I just dont understand one thing... How come PS3 movies all look so incredible? (Like CG!)
If I am compering them to xbox360, xbox360 stands out as a much more weaker console... but hows that possible??? It should be as powerful as PS3!!!

I think something cheesy is going out at sony's headquarters.
Why are they afraid to show some real gaming?
Some of the games should be at the alpha stages so why not to show us some sneak peak of alpha?

Dammit, I cant figure it out. Whats sony tries to accomplish with its actions? (E3 amazing "demos", PS3 will be expensive and more...)

[Zeal]

This may be in-engine, scripted sequences, as in something you would see in a cutscene, but it most certainly isn't any form of gameplay. I don't know where Kojima gets off insulting FPS and then showing a bunch of scripted bs. Especially considering MGS3 ripped off a bunch of FPS elements.

Wow, very impressive. Not.

He must be upset that MGS hasn't changed its gameplay since the original Playstation.

[fozy]

Only time will tell what Sony's up to. But I would agree, I think they're up to something - Messing with Microsoft mostly I think:P

[zsears]

They show everyone an awesome video and all anyone does is bitch. Is nothing ever good enough?

[Zeal]

I just dont understand one thing... How come PS3 movies all look so incredible? (Like CG!)
If I am compering them to xbox360, xbox360 stands out as a much more weaker console... but hows that possible??? It should be as powerful as PS3!!!

I think something cheesy is going out at sony's headquarters.
Why are they afraid to show some real gaming?
Some of the games should be at the alpha stages so why not to show us some sneak peak of alpha?

Dammit, I cant figure it out. Whats sony tries to accomplish with its actions? (E3 amazing "demos", PS3 will be expensive and more...)

Exactly, and I will tell you why.

Because PS3's actual gameplay graphics are going to look no better than 360's, that's why. If Sony hopes to sell the PS3 hype machine until launch, the only way is to keep gameplay footage hidden.

Don't you find it a little strange that no PS3 games were playable? This is 100% marketing and anyone with a brain can see right through it.

[Rafer]

real time my black ass. Thoughts of Killzone 2 come rushing back

Apparently at the game show they were able to pause it and pan around so it actually was in real time! (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs413.htm). But then again, with MGS3 the cut scene models and graphics were way more detailed than the stuff during gameplay, so even if it is in real time it doesn't mean it'll look that good during gameplay.

And screw the uncanny valley, this looks good.

[F3nyx]

The video isn't *that* awesome. Did anyone else notice the shameless promotion of the Cell processor? Isn't that sort of like preaching to the choir? And I think there's a good possibility of an annoyingly cutesy robot companion.

Even if it's not pre-scripted, this has nothing to do with actual gameply. At best it's a nice tech demo.

edit: I just checked out that "Uncanny Valley" link. It's an interesting idea. I think computer animation is definitely at that point -- see Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. As for games, well... I've yet to see any immersive enough to provoke that kind of response. Maybe it would be different with a VR rig.

[Zeal]

Apparently at the game show they were able to pause it and pan around so it actually was in real time! (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs413.htm). But then again, with MGS3 the cut scene models and graphics were way more detailed than the stuff during gameplay, so even if it is in real time it doesn't mean it'll look that good during gameplay.

And screw the uncanny valley, this looks good.

Right, but people need to actually understand what is going on here. What they were showing was realtime, but it was a scripted sequence. This means that it is not actual gameplay and that the player cannot interact with it. It was a controlled movie being rendered on the PS3.

I am 100% certain.

[TheBigL]

He must be upset that MGS hasn't changed its gameplay since the original Playstation.

As far as I know, People aint playing MGS series for its gameplay, but the plot, the charecters, the autmosphere.

Gameplay you say? Then we would all be playing Splinter Cell.

Besides The first one (PS1) MGS gameplay is nothing, but still... look how many people love the game. Its called the magic of direction and senario writing :D

[Zeal]

As far as I know, People aint playing MGS series for its gameplay, but the plot, the charecters, the autmosphere.

Gameplay you say? Then we would all be playing Splinter Cell.

Besides The first one (PS1) MGS gameplay is nothing, but still... look how many people love the game. Its called the magic of direction and senario writing :D

I also like the series for its story and direction, I was simply knocking Kojima for knocking FPS (an obvious stab at western game design). He also incorporated FPS elements into MGS3, so I don't see his problem.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

Don't you find it a little strange that no PS3 games were playable?

Depends on what the actual launch date is. If it's Q2 '06 then it's a little strange. If it's Q3 or Q4 '06 it's not really strange at all, since that's pretty far down the line and it's almost unheard of for playable games to be available 10-12 months in advance (I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I just can't recall any examples). Since Sony hasn't really talked about a launch date it's impossible to say. I'm pretty sure Nintendo doesn't have any playable titles at the show (not counting tech demos) so it's not as if Sony's alone.

[Lasakon]

As far as I know, People aint playing MGS series for its gameplay, but the plot, the charecters, the autmosphere.

Gameplay you say? Then we would all be playing Splinter Cell.

Besides The first one (PS1) MGS gameplay is nothing, but still... look how many people love the game. Its called the magic of direction and senario writing :D

Splinter Cell is all about Trial and Error, MGS is about adaptability. MGS gives you the choice to play how you want to play, Splinter Cell Doesn't.

[buckfutter]

I can't believe so many people can't accept that real time != gameplay. They never said this was what the game plays like, you stupid assholes. Every single games company releases these sorts of demonstrations. Just because it isn't someone actually playing the game doesn't mean it isn't representative of the visual quality. What are the cutscenes in Halo, then? CG? Get a fucking clue.

[sebastard]

MG2 and MGS3 all had crazy real-time demos that were much more fluid and 100% custom animation as well, and they were real-time. I guess we have no way of knowing for sure if this was real-time or not, but I would think as a flagship title for the PS3, the developers would get all the help from Sony they want, and Sony would want them to produce this kind of thing for them to hold up and say "see what you can do"..

I don't put those graphics outside of the realm of possibly being real-time either. If anyone else has seen the Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter video that's floating around, or those Gears of War demos, it's not a far stretch from that.

The fidelity of the lighting and shadowing and the quality of the material and FX shaders seems to be what is driving the realism and quality of next-gen stuff so far, which is great because that's what has been lacking this last generation.

I can't wait.

[Xerxes]

Splinter Cell is all about Trial and Error, MGS is about adaptability. MGS gives you the choice to play how you want to play, Splinter Cell Doesn't.

I find that backwards. I mean in splinter cell there are several ways to get things done with numerous gadgets and moves. I mean you don't have to shoot the lights out and merc everyone. Smoke bombs. Interagation. Knocking them out or killing them. I haven't played a mgs since 2 but that was the more limiting experience :confused:

[Zeal]

I can't believe so many people can't accept that real time != gameplay. They never said this was what the game plays like, you stupid assholes. Every single games company releases these sorts of demonstrations. Just because it isn't someone actually playing the game doesn't mean it isn't representative of the visual quality. What are the cutscenes in Halo, then? CG? Get a fucking clue.

What a dumb fuck. If you actually read the thread, you would have realized we established it was realtime. People were simply confused as to whether or not it represented actual gameplay.

Don't come in here talking that smack. You will get schooled.

[Lasakon]

I find that backwards. I mean in splinter cell there are several ways to get things done with numerous gadgets and moves. I mean you don't have to shoot the lights out and merc everyone. Smoke bombs. Interagation. Knocking them out or killing them. I haven't played a mgs since 2 but that was the more limiting experience :confused:
Did you even play Splinter Cell? Just about every single mission would end if you got detected a couple of times. It played more like a puzzle game then a Stealth/Action game. Metal Gear is all about letting you play has you see fit and not making the game end because you didn't stick to the designer's rules.

[Klade]

Leave it to the japanese to create a dramatic video that required no dialogue to set a specific rebellious but depressed mood for everyone who views it across an infinite span of cultures. And then screw it up by throwing in a cutesy little robot that hops around, and flaps stunted wings. I wouldn't be surprised if that fucker farts multi-colored glitter.

[Kagger]

Looking at the trailer's contents I am quite excited. It seems to be very interesting.

If anyone has ever read an interview with Kojima you would know he doesn't play FPS because it makes him dizzy, but he's working on it (I've read that in at least 2 different articles).

Splinter cell is a totally differnt kind of gameplay. Yes...there are 5 ways I can get through that guy....but I still have to get through that guy without setting off an alarm. In MGS there are 5 ways to do everything, and you set off an alarm just run/hide/kill. If I see a guy, do I grenade, snipe, kill, grab, cqc, tap on the wall, tranq...and every part can be done like that.

They are completely different, I love them both. MGS is about free play and a ridiculous story. Splinter Cell is about getting that Jack Bauer feel.

[Xerxes]

Actually I got through alot of Splinter Cell missions ok and always had my MGS levels end... O_o

Splinter Cell is the Sam Fisher guy right?

[Lasakon]

Looking at the trailer's contents I am quite excited. It seems to be very interesting.

If anyone has ever read an interview with Kojima you would know he doesn't play FPS because it makes him dizzy, but he's working on it (I've read that in at least 2 different articles).

Splinter cell is a totally differnt kind of gameplay. Yes...there are 5 ways I can get through that guy....but I still have to get through that guy without setting off an alarm. In MGS there are 5 ways to do everything, and you set off an alarm just run/hide/kill. If I see a guy, do I grenade, snipe, kill, grab, cqc, tap on the wall, tranq...and every part can be done like that.

They are completely different, I love them both. MGS is about free play and a ridiculous story. Splinter Cell is about getting that Jack Bauer feel.
Splinter Cell's plots read like bad Tom Clancy novels, which I guess was the point.

[Xerxes]

And the huge nuke dinosaur was great writing?

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

Leave it to the japanese to create a dramatic video that required no dialogue to set a specific rebellious but depressed mood for everyone who views it across an infinite span of cultures. And then screw it up by throwing in a cutesy little robot that hops around, and flaps stunted wings. I wouldn't be surprised if that fucker farts multi-colored glitter.

But that's the robot from Snatcher! That's the best part of the trailer! I don't like to think of it as "a bunch of dramatic footage screwed up by a cutesy little robot," I think of it as "a cutesy little robot screwed up by a bunch of dramatic footage."

[StrifeSnake13*]

here is proof that it is real time,
A report of "MGS4 on PS3" event @ TGS 2005
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs4.htm

Preliminary to the MGS4 trailer, the E3 trailer and its sequel new PS2-generated joke trailer "METAL GEAR RAIDEN SNAKE ERASER" were shown. Then Kutaragi's video message came ("MGS team is beyond my expectation I want to play MGS4 now blah blah"), and the MGS4 trailer was on screen.

BUT, the awesome thing is, after the trailer shown, they picked a scene in the trailer and actually manipulated (zoom-in, zoom-out, changing viewpoints, adding effects etc.) Snake in realtime on a PS3 devkit, on the stage...

self shadow
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs408.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs409.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs410.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs411.htm

depth of field
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs412.htm

lighting and fog
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs413.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs415.htm

(engineers controlling it)
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs414.htm

Then Otacon scene was explained. Otacon is also in realtime, not movie.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs413.jpg

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=567889&postcount=1

kojima never uses CGI.

[Lasakon]

And the huge nuke dinosaur was great writing?
The Metal Gear's themselves are pretty tame, I mean Bipedal Nuclear tanks don't seem that far fetched. You should have said something about Liquid's arm.
Either way, at least it's more orignal then the all too boring political intrigue of Splinter Cell.

[buckfutter]

What a dumb fuck. If you actually read the thread, you would have realized we established it was realtime. People were simply confused as to whether or not it represented actual gameplay.

Don't come in here talking that smack. You will get schooled.

Yes, and I was saying that people were talking as though as soon as gameplay footage is shown, it will not be nearly as impressive as this stuff. Which is bullshit. We KNOW it shows off cutscenes. What's the big deal? Do people really expect the gameplay to include dialogue and unique, scripted animations?

And please, don't use the word "schooled".

[StrifeSnake13*]

O here is a hi res version of the trailer from 1up,

http://zdmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o1/1UP/mgs4_tgs05_trailer_quick.zip

it's still filmed off of the screen but it's better quality.

[Xerxes]

Was this "scene" the picked one in motion? Did they control Gramps in the game or just the camera?

[Xerxes]

The Metal Gear's themselves are pretty tame, I mean Bipedal Nuclear tanks don't seem that far fetched. You should have said something about Liquid's arm.
Either way, at least it's more orignal then the all too boring political intrigue of Splinter Cell.

Compared to SC, MGS is a very fictional story. :o

[megaman]

thief owns dem both :/

[Danin]

Yes but how postmodern is it?

Kojima's an artist, both technically and literarily (if that's even a word). The MGS series is a testament to the ability of a quality design team to push hardware to its limits, and the gameplay is always top notch, but really the series wouldn't be memorable like it is if each game wasn't a successively grander and more absurd mindfuck than the last.

If the plot makes complete sense I'll be very disappointed to say the least.

[StrifeSnake13*]

Was this "scene" the picked one in motion? Did they control Gramps in the game or just the camera?

They picked a scene and manipulated it (lighting, shadows, ect), they ran the demo on a dev kit that was on stage, as you can see in this picture,

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050916/mgs414.htm

[Danin]

Was this "scene" the picked one in motion? Did they control Gramps in the game or just the camera?

There was no gameplay for them to control, they just demonstrated the engine but moving the camera around the scene and tinkering with graphics and the like in real-time.

I don't know how many people here have Document of MGS2 but it's the same principle.

[StrifeSnake13*]

There is a difference between real-time rendered video and gameplay, Real-time is just data being rendered off of actual hardware instead of being pre-rendered on farms of computers.

gameplay is someone actually playing, MGS3 cut scenes= realtime video and MGS3 gameplay= gameplay footage.

[Dracula-X]

I got a kick out of the little robot too. Many people aren't aware this thing goes back to Kojima's earlier works.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

The guys on stage manipulating the scene are using Dual Shock 2's.

[bobbler]

The guys on stage manipulating the scene are using Dual Shock 2's.

All the real time things have been controlled by Dual Shock 2s as far as I've seen (at E3 that's what they were using for the real time stuff). The PS3 controller seems like it hasn't been produced in much quantity (which would give credence to the "concept" placard we've been seeing whenever the ps3-a-rang has been shown).

[The Iron Weasel]

Kojima always got the best out of the ps2 i don't doubt anything less from him for the ps3. I am dissapointed that they didn't have a demo though, i've always been a big MGS fan, so i wanted to see what they were going to do with the series. Oh and to the guy who says splinter cell is trail and error, that was resolved with Chaos Theory, i mean that game whas phenominal, there was multiple pathways, you could choose how to kill the guy or just incapacitate him, and the alarm stuff was taken out, sure there were still alarm stages there, but when you reached alarm level 3 the game didn't stop, the guards go more body armour, became more alert, and most importantly, more on edge. So i disagree that splinter cell is a trail and error experiance. (at least now)

[Chandler]

if history says anything then Square Enix's FF7 tech demo on PS3 is pretty much what you'll get in real-time. Squaresoft's FF8 tech demo for PS2 is exactly what FFX looks like in real-time, and FFX is one of the best looking games for PS2 so I'd judge PS3 by FF7's tech demo for now.

[Kagger]

Splinter Cell's plots read like bad Tom Clancy novels, which I guess was the point.

What I meant was the actions you did make you feel like Jack Bauer. Sneaking through a facility, grabbing a guy and killing him...then continuing. I got the whole SC feeling alot during season 4

And...I haven't played Chaos Theory. I don't want to waste money on the ps2 version, but my computer can't run it yet...so I wait.

I love them both...play them both...

[phantomhitman]

ill buyintot he hype on this one....now alli need is $2,000 to a 360 and a ps3 with at least two games, hd cords, add ons, extended warranties, and enough controllers for everyone......sigh

[Twigz'N'Berries]

What I meant was the actions you did make you feel like Jack Bauer. Sneaking through a facility, grabbing a guy and killing him...then continuing. I got the whole SC feeling alot during season 4

And...I haven't played Chaos Theory. I don't want to waste money on the ps2 version, but my computer can't run it yet...so I wait.

I love them both...play them both...
I was surprised by the graphical prowess of the Xbox on Chaos Theory. It looked damn good for a 4 year old console.

[Kefkataran]

He must be upset that MGS hasn't changed its gameplay since the original Playstation.

Uh... Metal Gear Acid? Or the Gameboy Metal Gear game?

I was simply knocking Kojima for knocking FPS (an obvious stab at western game design). He also incorporated FPS elements into MGS3, so I don't see his problem.

I don't think he was making fun of FPS games. He was making a joke.

Did anyone else notice the shameless promotion of the Cell processor? Isn't that sort of like preaching to the choir?

Again, not promotion -- it was a joke. Kojima may have a weird sense of humor, but it's not that weird. I'm surprised people didn't get that.

Even if it's not pre-scripted, this has nothing to do with actual gameply.

Remember MGS2 and MGS3? Kojima does't often release gameplay movies. He likes doing trailers like in movies because he prefers to focus on the cinematic aspects of videogames. If you don't like that, fine, but it'd be silly to expect anything else from him.

People were simply confused as to whether or not it represented actual gameplay.

There wasn't even any fighting or sneaking or, well, anything besides some chatting and looking at stuff. What about that could people possibly confuse as representing actual gameplay?

And the huge nuke dinosaur was great writing?

You'd better fucking believe it.

Compared to SC, MGS is a very fictional story.

Does that make it worse? I mean if you're looking for something realistic, you definitely shouldn't look to MGS. But if you're looking for what's better-written and more interesting overall, MGS is obviously it.

If the plot makes complete sense I'll be very disappointed to say the least.

You and me, friend: we are brothers.

Squaresoft's FF8 tech demo for PS2

I don't think I've ever seen this. I'd like to though. Any links?

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

All the real time things have been controlled by Dual Shock 2s as far as I've seen (at E3 that's what they were using for the real time stuff). The PS3 controller seems like it hasn't been produced in much quantity (which would give credence to the "concept" placard we've been seeing whenever the ps3-a-rang has been shown).

Sony themselves have confirmed (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09/16/news_6133405.html) that the E3 design isn't final (no surprise, given the reaction it received). So presumably they're using DS2s because the actual PS3 controller doesn't exist yet.

[Major Scud]

ya that ps2 demo they showed before the system was out that said they could render the entire final fantasy movie on a single ps2 in real time, thats what my ps2 looks like for sure... ;)

[bobbler]

If you watch the videos of that PS2 dancing demo from Square (FF8 CG transfered to a realtime ps2 demo) it doesn't even look as good as FFX. So even if FF13 can only match that demo I'd be 100% pleased -- that tech demo was sexy.

[Danin]

Sony themselves have confirmed (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09/16/news_6133405.html) that the E3 design isn't final (no surprise, given the reaction it received). So presumably they're using DS2s because the actual PS3 controller doesn't exist yet.

They were waiting to steal the Revolution controller.