PS3 Rumors

[NoName]

To go along with the Xbox360 rumors (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5293) that were discussed yesterday, Eurogamer has an article (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=60877) recapping some information found in this months official PS2 magazine. There are quite a few pieces of information that may (or may not) be true.
OPSM2 US reveals a few items of gossip on GTA 4 (as it's being referred to), claiming that "Rockstar North is creating a specialized game engine for PS3 that will bring GTA 4 to life to a degree that the PS2 games could only hint at," with the aim being to create "a city that's less repetitive and where everything - and everyone- looks and acts more like they would in the real world on every level."
Hopefully since all of this is coming from the official PS2 magazine there is a little bit of truth in them.

[Eran Hawke]

So, I will have shinier versions of games I already have?

Did anyone really doubt that there would be a new GTA or Gran Turdismo?

So, with PS3, we get a new GTA that Rockstar will milk for the system's lifespan by giving us the same game with new cities. Anyone else tired of the series and think that no matter how much more filler they add, that the game is done?

[Kelegacy]

So, I will have shinier versions of games I already have?

Did anyone really doubt that there would be a new GTA or Gran Turidsmo?

So, with PS3, we get a new GTA that Rockstar will milk for the system's lifespan by giving us the same game with new cities. Anyone else tired of the series and think that no matter how much more filler they add, that the game is done?

Shut up and don't play the games then. I'm tired of the excuse that the games have gotten stale and repetitive. It's ridiculous.

[president_fred]

Personally if they actually manage to get a city which works realistically with fantastic A.I and character models and where NPC's react realistically to your actions then count me in. If Rockstar manages to do what bethesda appears to be doing with oblivion I am all for sequels as long as they improve on gameplay and AI as well as graphics. Now I like shitting on stuff for the sake of it as much as the next forumgoer but rockstar has added something to each new installment hopefully this will add even more. I think people have unrealistic expectations concerning the leap from this generation to the next (of all consoles). It will be graphically superior but they haven't reinvented the wheel, you know. For me this is like when we went from the NES to SNES similiar technology and gameplay but very much refined.

[Vandenh]

>that the games have gotten stale and repetitive

In the case of GTA you must admit that they don't change much. I played first GTA and recently played the new one, and they really have not evolved. Just added content...

I hope the new GTA will add some multiplayer stuff or some kind on new layer (maybe something to manipulate the world a bit) instead of just the same stuff with new vehicles and more "content.

[fitbabits]

I heard a rumor that the Killzone 2 footage shown at E3 was real!! :rolleyes:

Oh, and each Cell processor will have a smidgen of Kuturagi's love-juice at the core.

[Roc Ingersol]

Rockstar North is creating a specialized game engine for PS3 that will bring GTA 4 to life to a degree that the PS2 games could only hint at,
They're not just going to 'age' GTA3? ;)

[Morratut]

I heard a rumor that the Killzone 2 footage shown at E3 was real!! :rolleyes:

Oh, and each Cell processor will have a smidgen of Kuturagi's love-juice at the core.

Urrrgh no love-juice.

I prefer Lady syrup mmmmmmmmmmmm :p

[fitbabits]

Urrrgh no love-juice.

I prefer Lady syrup mmmmmmmmmmmm :p

Unless Kuturagi's keeping a big secret (which is possible given his 'monthly' leakage), there will be no Lady Syrup fothcoming!

Sorry! :o

[Scaryboy]

Well I expected them to come up with a kick ass new engine but all I hope for GTA 4 is that it's the most offensive and explicit video game ever made. I do love me some puerile content.

[MosBen]

Personally, I agree with all of your arguments about the GTA series until a new game in the series comes out, that is. Yeah, underneath it all the core of the game in San Andreas is pretty much the same as it was in 3 and after I've played each of the games it does get kind of annoying that it's pretty much the same game. Still, whenever a new game in the series comes out I still manage to play it for at least 10-15 hours, if not more before this dawns on me, so I don't ever feel like I'm getting ripped off. I just love driving around, exploring those new cities.

And realistically, is there *any* series where the game changed fundamentally from game to game? That being the case, are you guys arguing against series all together? If that's the case, do you really think completely original, and not simply clones, would get made if they didn't make a series of games?

[fitbabits]

And realistically, is there *any* series where the game changed fundamentally from game to game?

GTA did, from GTA 2 to GTA 3. Oh, and Sabrewulf and Knightlore.

[Heretic Machine]

If you don't think that GTA games are evolving, then you are fucking stupid, and you're judging them based on the most superficial level.

[Vandenh]

>If you don't think that GTA games are evolving, then you are fucking stupid

I must be stuuupid then minster Einstein. Explain the great new stuff so my pea brain can understand.

[TheKeck]

In the case of GTA you must admit that they don't change much. I played first GTA and recently played the new one, and they really have not evolved. Just added content...


By "first GTA", do you mean GTA 3? Because if you don't see dramatic differences between the very first GTA and the most recent one, you seriously do have problems.

[MosBen]

Well, I don't know about the second two, but did GTA really change in any fundamental way other than technology and controls? That is, did it change in any way that any series which has gone from 2d to 3d has to change?

[Oddmaker]

I'll look forward to 2007, 2008 then.

[TheKeck]

Well, I don't know about the second two, but did GTA really change in any fundamental way other than technology and controls? That is, did it change in any way that any series which has gone from 2d to 3d has to change?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Of course there are similarities between the first (and second) GTA games and their 3d counterparts... I mean, they're sequels, but the entire experience is a completely different one.

Would you say Mario 64 did not change in any fundamental way from the original Super Mario Bros.; they just translated it from 2d to 3d?

[Taco]

Oh please, what's next...Nintendo saying they are going to release a Zelda game for the Revolution that will look better than Cube versions??? psshhhhh.

[Ernst_Jager]

The GTA license in my opinion is crap. Play the game for 15 mins and you have pretty much seen and done it all. I will never understand the appeal of it. Actually I don't know anyone that truly likes the game (at least in my circle of gaming friends). Totally overrated.

[Taco]

I agree. Whether it's overrated or not I don't know, but after one hour of Vice City I was sick of it. Played San Andreas for 10 minutes and have no interest in playing it more.

[fitbabits]

The GTA license in my opinion is crap. Play the game for 15 mins and you have pretty much seen and done it all. I will never understand the appeal of it. Actually I don't know anyone that truly likes the game (at least in my circle of gaming friends). Totally overrated.

I hate to nitpick, but GTA is not a license, it's a series. Just thought I'd point it out before someone slammed you. Is all.

[Taco]

"Is all." is a sentence fragment. Consider revising.

[DreamSlider]

Truth be told, I love all of the GTA (since 3 at least) games, and I think that GTA:SA is by far superior to GTA3 & GTA:VC. Not even necessarily for the storyline or anything because that's not really any more compelling (in my opinion), just longer, than the other two. The thing I love about SA is the sheer size and freedom that game affords... I can't even tell you how many hours I've spent driving around the countryside looking for new jumps or seeing if I can clear that river off that cliff or whatever... and then there are the different planes to fly around in... I absolutely love taking a jet up to the ceiling and jumping out of it to parachute to places I can't get any other way.

I think that GTA:VC didn't necessarily add a huge amount to GTA3, but I feel that GTA:SA was a huge addition to the series. I only hope they can keep it up with GTA4, or whatever it ends up being called.

Just my 2 cents.

[DreamSlider]

"Consider revising." is also a sentence fragment. The grammar portion of my brain is overloading right now. Would you all consider revising for proper grammar? J/k... I don't really care, but you gotta love the sass. :D

[Dr.Finger]

The core gameplay may not have changed but so what? The core gameplay is awesome, and there have been enough tweaks and advances in play to justify each iteration, and that's before you even get to the story and voica actiong which is always top notch.

As to GTA being repetitive; Wha? Huh? Is there any single-player game that has more varied gameplay than San Andreas?

[Taco]

"Consider revising." is also a sentence fragment.

That was done very much on purpose :).

[TheKeck]

The GTA license in my opinion is crap. Play the game for 15 mins and you have pretty much seen and done it all. I will never understand the appeal of it. Actually I don't know anyone that truly likes the game (at least in my circle of gaming friends). Totally overrated.

I just want to add my 2 cents on this as well. I absolutely loved GTA 3, (and got a kick out of the first 2.) I finished the third game and felt there was plenty there to keep me entertained for more than 15 minutes. I never ended up playing Vice City or San Andreas, though, so I can't speak for those. Anyway, it's fine with me if you don't like them, just wanted to give my opinion.

[Rakael]

I have been a huge fan of GTA since the very first one. My friend and I used to duke it out for hours in GTA over our home network. Ahh the good ole days. I for one look forward to GTA 4.

[Zanzibar]

Hopefully since all of this is coming from the official PS2 magazine there is a little bit of truth in them.

Was that sarcasm? 'Official' mags are as clueless as we are; they just have to write about it.

[Kelegacy]

The RPG elements alone, with a constantly changing body structure, relationships with women, gang territory that you can take over and own, and skills you increase with firearms, vehicles, and other things are all a huge dose of newness in the GTA formula. I would have been happy with the huge new world that has NO load times whatesoever, and with 3 cities each bigger than GTA3 and enourmous countryside locales sprinkled in for good measure.

The games are changing enough to warrant sequels. I could play the same game every year with updated missions and story and I'd be happy.

[CapnBob]

I've pretty much had my fill of GTA in its current format. Unless they add in some online multiplayer gang wars or else significantly upgrade the controls and AI, I'll probably have to pass no matter how pretty it gets.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Wow, the fanboism runs deep in here. If this were announced for the 360, people would have nutted their pants and declared the console wars over.

Anyway, I'm glad that Rockstar is continuing the series. I actually liked San Andreas more than Vice City. But personal preferences aside, obviously plenty of people (in contradiction to this forum) like the GTA series. They have sold multi-million copies of each game that hits the market. Just like Squenix, they have a loyal following who will buy a PS3 just for the game. We will have a knockoff at launch (Saint's Row) which I hope will attract some of the franchises loyal following until (if) Rockstyar makes a 360 version. I just hope they don't pull that exclusive for several months crap like last gen.
Rockstar helps to move consoles...I hope they announce some support for the 360 soon.

Lastly, Sony has been relatively quiet since E3. I have a feeling they have something big planned for the show.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

I've pretty much had my fill of GTA in its current format. Unless they add in some online multiplayer gang wars or else significantly upgrade the controls and AI, I'll probably have to pass no matter how pretty it gets.
Not to get off track, but Saint's Row for the 360 will have online gang wars...sweet. That should hold you over til' GTA 5 gets here.

[bapenguin]

I've pretty much had my fill of GTA in its current format. Unless they add in some online multiplayer gang wars or else significantly upgrade the controls and AI, I'll probably have to pass no matter how pretty it gets.

I feel the same. I find myself getting bored of the newer ones fairly quick. GTA 3 held my interest for months.

[Kelegacy]

The GTA license in my opinion is crap. Play the game for 15 mins and you have pretty much seen and done it all. I will never understand the appeal of it. Actually I don't know anyone that truly likes the game (at least in my circle of gaming friends). Totally overrated.

In addition to my problem controlling my impulses, I also have a problem respecting people's opinions. You, sir, are a bonehead. If you think you can see and do everything in 15 minutes in a Grand Theft Auto, you need to actually PLAY a GTA game and stop being a lying dumbass.

[Kelegacy]

Not to get off track, but Saint's Row for the 360 will have online gang wars...sweet. That should hold you over til' GTA 5 gets here.

If that game ends up being anything other than a turd, I'll eat my own ass. When is the last time a GTA clone was anything other?

[Dirty Harry]

If that game ends up being anything other than a turd, I'll eat my own ass. When is the last time a GTA clone was anything other?
Thats alot of ass son, you think you can stomach it all?

[Taco]

I think he forgot the "out". So hopefully not that much.

[KNOTE]

Everyone who is successful in the marketplace owns a position. GTAs position is content. They will continue to out-content everyone out there. It's worked so far and it will continue to work. In fact, at some point they may create a game that is the last game you ever need. (with a subscription fee).

[mister_slim]

If that game ends up being anything other than a turd, I'll eat my own ass. When is the last time a GTA clone was anything other?
Scrapland was interesting. Not so much to my taste, but pretty well done.

[Atorak]

I want to have GTA's babies. I definitely loved GTA:SA more than the other more recent GTAs. I could drive around the cities, jump off cliffs, pop wheelies in traffic, and blast cars with the harrier all day long. Gaming at it's finest, IMO.

I can also understand why other people don't like GTA games, which is cool. But, you should at least appreciate the things it has done to advance the genre, and gaming in general. The open-ended nature of the game alone is worth praising, isn't it? Sure, you have to follow a central storyline eventually, but the fact that you can abandon the storyline for 10 hours to just drive the city, work out, or practice flying makes the game so great.

It's kinda like..."Hey guys, we have a story here. We took a lot of time to write it. But, if you don't want to experience it right now, go and do whatever you want! We'll be here waiting to pick it back up whenever you feel like it."

"Oh, and here's your rocket launcher."

[Kelegacy]

I want to have GTA's babies. I definitely loved GTA:SA more than the other more recent GTAs. I could drive around the cities, jump off cliffs, pop wheelies in traffic, and blast cars with the harrier all day long. Gaming at it's finest, IMO.

I can also understand why other people don't like GTA games, which is cool. But, you should at least appreciate the things it has done to advance the genre, and gaming in general. The open-ended nature of the game alone is worth praising, isn't it? Sure, you have to follow a central storyline eventually, but the fact that you can abandon the storyline for 10 hours to just drive the city, work out, or practice flying makes the game so great.

It's kinda like..."Hey guys, we have a story here. We took a lot of time to write it. But, if you don't want to experience it right now, go and do whatever you want! We'll be here waiting to pick it back up whenever you feel like it."

"Oh, and here's your rocket launcher."

Good post, and I agree with you completely. The game is great because you can do nearly anything you want, play the game how YOU want to play it.

[Taco]

Open ended gameplay must be considered something new and exciting by non-PC Gamers.

No, I don't see what the GTA games have brought gaming in general, other than hookers, coarse language and violence(which, admit it or not, can make a good game). Though I guess when only compared to the on the rail console games of years passed it's a lot more impressive.

Well maybe the radio stations. Those are pretty cool.

[DoubleUranium]

I even give Rockstar extra respect for NOT incrementing the version number on this gen of games. All three were GTA3, the latter two being more refined and with new content. There was no illusion you were getting a brand new version of the game, just a refined version with new content. Calling them all GTA3: ?? was a clear signal to you as a gamer for what to expect, so you can't bitch that the game got stale. You were wishing for GTA4 like I wish for Starcraft 2, a new game not an expansion pack.

[TheKeck]

Open ended gameplay must be considered something new and exciting by non-PC Gamers.

No, I don't see what the GTA games have brought gaming in general, other than hookers, coarse language and violence(which, admit it or not, can make a good game). Though I guess when only compared to the on the rail console games of years passed it's a lot more impressive.

Well maybe the radio stations. Those are pretty cool.

Um, I've only ever played a GTA game on the PC. What open ended gameplay games are you referring to on the PC?

I couldn't disagree more about hookers, bad language, and violence being the only things GTA have brought to gaming. You have played these games, right? It pisses me off that the only attention GTA games get is because of the questionable content. I try to explain to people that in spite of all the trash these games have, there is really an AMAZING game there. GTA 3 blew me away when I first played it. I simply don't understand your comments.

[Taco]

Off the top of my head, Fallout, Daggerfall, Might and Magic. All from the mid-90's and earlier.

[TheKeck]

Off the top of my head, Fallout, Daggerfall, Might and Magic. All from the mid-90's and earlier.

Well, I haven't played any of those games. I remember reading about Daggerfall and thinking is sounded really cool, but I never actually got it. I suppose I missed out. (By the way, asking about open-ended PC games was more out of curiosity than trying to argue.)

While, I personally hadn't seen any game nearly as open-ended and immersive as GTA 3 (PC or otherwise) before I played it, my main point is not necessarily that it was groundbreaking ideas/technology. My main point is that I thought it was an amazing and fun game, as opposed to some retarded gameplay used as an excuse to wrap around some objectionable content.

[Eran Hawke]

I remember Ultima IV for the Commodore being fairly open-ended. I played the game for months before I realized I was supposed to be virtuous and that being a good guy was the way to win.

Looks like we’ve come a long way since then, hmm?

[Achilles]

Clearly people want to play more GTA, if they dramatically change the game just to satisfy the people who demand that every game be unlike every previous game they’ll loose their market and their game will probably suck.

What I don’t understand is how someone who doesn’t like a game as wildly popular as GTA can say that the game should change dramatically. It’s like Baldur’s Gate Dark Alliance, or Fallout Brotherhood of Steel. Those games departed entirely from their previous incarnations and nobody said that they were being daring in that decision, they just slammed them for ‘selling out’ because they liked those series the way they were. If someone doesn't like a series they really have no investment in where it ends up, so it's easy to go on a forum and say that the series should be entirely different.

[Kelegacy]

I remember Ultima IV for the Commodore being fairly open-ended. I played the game for months before I realized I was supposed to be virtuous and that being a good guy was the way to win.

Looks like we’ve come a long way since then, hmm?

Ultima 7, my favorite game of all time, was very open ended. That's one of the reasons I love it. I also loved that you could play how you wanted, stealing everything in the world if you so chose. And the daily routines of every character: they each had a purpose and real life in the world.

[DaXIthR]

Sorry, man, but as an English teacher, I have to say it.

"Consider revising."

That is a complete sentence. Only the predicate is seen, but the subject is understood because it was made clear who was being addressed. The verb and how it is acting is clear.

[fitbabits]

Sorry, man, but as an English teacher, I have to say it.

"Consider revising."

That is a complete sentence. Only the predicate is seen, but the subject is understood because it was made clear who was being addressed. The verb and how it is acting is clear.

Every complete sentence should contain two parts: a subject and a predicate. The subject is what (or whom) the sentence is about, while the predicate tells something about the subject.

[Taco]

Sorry, man, but as an English teacher, I have to say it.

"Consider revising."

That is a complete sentence. Only the predicate is seen, but the subject is understood because it was made clear who was being addressed. The verb and how it is acting is clear.

I guess I should try and screw up more often.

[roboflavinoid]

Off the top of my head, Fallout, Daggerfall, Might and Magic. All from the mid-90's and earlier.
I think the key difference here is that some people enjoy jacking cars and driving them off of tall buildings, and some people enjoy killing mutants/zombies/goblins for stats and loot. Both are open-ended, but different oceans float different boats.

[Taco]

Like I said. It adds more violence, hookers and coarse language.

[Meshyf]

GTA is dead and hearing news of a ps3 release is no shocker. Its the best selling game for playstation so of course its going to be slammed into the ground.

I don't really like them that much anymore. I'm actually pissed the only game to look forward to on my psp is a GTA game that has no hope of evolving the franchise.

[Kelegacy]

GTA is dead and hearing news of a ps3 release is no shocker. Its the best selling game for playstation so of course its going to be slammed into the ground.

I don't really like them that much anymore. I'm actually pissed the only game to look forward to on my psp is a GTA game that has no hope of evolving the franchise.

Why must everyone need evolution in their gaming? GTA:SA is NOT GTA3. That is evolution enough; if you play the actual game you will see that. Have fun, for Chrissake! Every game in a series does not have to be groundbreaking. It can be progressive and add a little bit more each time, but it doesn't have to be revolutionary with each incarnation. To ask that of gaming (or any entertainment medium) is ridiculous and unjust.

If this was Halo 3 announced, with details about the game, people would be juicing their pants and talking about how awesome this will be. We didnt see much progression from Halo 1 to Halo 2 did we? We are likely not going to see a groundbreakingly innovative game with Halo 3 either. Yet, the undue criticisms GTA receives seems warranted because it is a PS3 announcement. Yeah, that's really rational, people.

[Taco]

Yet, the undue criticisms GTA receives seems warranted because it is not a PC announcement

Fixed for me.

[snubber]

I remember Ultima IV for the Commodore being fairly open-ended. I played the game for months before I realized I was supposed to be virtuous and that being a good guy was the way to win.

Looks like we’ve come a long way since then, hmm?


U4 rocked. I did the same thing...played for MONTHS in grade school before I knew what the hell I was supposed to do, usually robbing people and stealing from blind reagent sellers. Oops. Not exactly on the path to the rightousness there.

[roboflavinoid]

Fixed for me.
Welcome to PC vs. Console: The Most Pointless Argument of the Century.

[TheKeck]

Welcome to PC vs. Console: The Most Pointless Argument of the Century.

Oh, I'm SURE I've had more pointless arguments with my friends over the years. :p

[rein]

Exactly what do people want to see in the next GTA game? Are they supposed to turn it into a different genre just for the sake of change? What they are trying to do with the new engine sounds like the next natural step. I wouldn't mind licensed cars but nothing I can't live without.

[Atorak]

Welcome to PC vs. Console: The Most Pointless Argument of the Century.

*puts a cookie on his desk*

[Taco]

Welcome to PC vs. Console: The Most Pointless Argument of the Century.

Not any less important than whether or not GTA is a good game, or which console is better or any number of other opinion loaded arguments.

[TheKeck]

Not any less important than whether or not GTA is a good game, or which console is better or any number of other opinion loaded arguments.

That seems to be a pretty good point. When you argue about something that is really not a matter of opinion, I guess somebody's actually wrong at the end of the day. ("Dude, so-and-so was totally in that movie." "No way, man.") However, when you argue about anything else, in the end we're all just left with our opinions (usually the same ones we started out with).

[bobbler]

Was that sarcasm? 'Official' mags are as clueless as we are; they just have to write about it.

Glad I'm not the only one who caught that. The Official PS/Xbox magazines are no more related to Sony/MS than Gamepro is. They pay Sony/MS for the ability to put official in the title (most likely) and it helps them sell more magazines.

[roboflavinoid]

That seems to be a pretty good point. When you argue about something that is really not a matter of opinion, I guess somebody's actually wrong at the end of the day. ("Dude, so-and-so was totally in that movie." "No way, man.") However, when you argue about anything else, in the end we're all just left with our opinions (usually the same ones we started out with).
I remember something (one of few things) that really stuck with me from a social psych class I took years ago. Basically, it's that the more insignificant the difference between X and Y, the more passionate we become about our reasons for choosing one over the other. We do this because we don't really have solid irrefutable reasons for making those kinds of choices. So we follow our gut, and then bark loudly to anyone around about how sure we are of our reasoning.
It's easy to see proof of this too, those who are lucky enough to be able to choose both options are the least likely to start flamewars over Mac vs. PC, PC vs. Console, PS2 vs. Xbox, etc. Those who have been restricted to one choice tend to be some of the most rabid fansNintendo. ;)

[TheKeck]

I remember something (one of few things) that really stuck with me from a social psych class I took years ago. Basically, it's that the more insignificant the difference between X and Y, the more passionate we become about our reasons for choosing one over the other. We do this because we don't really have solid irrefutable reasons for making those kinds of choices. So we follow our gut, and then bark loudly to anyone around about how sure we are of our reasoning.
It's easy to see proof of this too, those who are lucky enough to be able to choose both options are the least likely to start flamewars over Mac vs. PC, PC vs. Console, PS2 vs. Xbox, etc. Those who have been restricted to one choice tend to be some of the most rabid fansNintendo. ;)

Good call. :)

[Zurik]

People on here just like to argue, and I'm not sure they ever really have a point or a good reason too.

[DreamSlider]

One slight tangent, a bit off-topic, so sorry for this. One game that's great fun for the PSP just came out Meshyf. Burnout: Legends is a blast to play. I went out and got it today and I can see myself playing it for quite some time. I'm having great fun with it, now back to our regularly scheduled discussion. :)

[Twigz'N'Berries]

If that game ends up being anything other than a turd, I'll eat my own ass. When is the last time a GTA clone was anything other?
Well, it will look better than the polygonal nightmare which is the GTA series and it will have better textures and draw distances. What were the GTA clones? Narc sucked ass, but it was a budget title...did anyone have a different expectation for it? Driver by Atari didn't know what it wanted to be so it sucked at everything. If there were more, I'm not sure what they were.
Look at the vids, give it a chance. If it does what is promises, it should be an entertaining game.

Plus, with an ass like a jackhammer, you may need some Pepto and a stomach pump after. I mean, you are 90% ass....

just kidding Kel...

[Kelegacy]

Well, it will look better than the polygonal nightmare which is the GTA series and it will have better textures and draw distances. What were the GTA clones? Narc sucked ass, but it was a budget title...did anyone have a different expectation for it? Driver by Atari didn't know what it wanted to be so it sucked at everything. If there were more, I'm not sure what they were.
Look at the vids, give it a chance. If it does what is promises, it should be an entertaining game.

Plus, with an ass like a jackhammer, you may need some Pepto and a stomach pump after. I mean, you are 90% ass....

just kidding Kel...

True Crime was another clone. Scarface will be another type when it's released. There are many in production right now. Some games took elements of GTA's mission system and car-jacking and made decent games, like Mercenaries. Still, GTA is untouchable as far as quality goes. The games might have suffered in their later incarnations by being restricted by hardware on the consoles, but if you play San Andreas on the PC you will be astounded at how far you can see. The game on PC is what it truly was supposed to look like. It's superb.

Edit: Oh and Mafia was a clone as well. Still, on PC, Mafia was a phenomenal game. I had so much fun with it because it incorporated some new elements into the car-jacking, freeroaming genre: shooting out the window, unique rules on car theft (having to learn how to hotwire certain cars), speed limits for speeding, shooting through windows and killing drivers, deflatable tires, etc etc. It was like a mixture of Max Payne (on foot) with GTA (in the car)...done right. I heard the game was a mild stinker on the consoles though. It's unfortunate.

[Kagger]

I'm horrible at English, and I know that a subject can be understand.

"Go." is a sentence if I'm talking to a person face to face.

[fitbabits]

Edit: Oh and Mafia was a clone as well. Still, on PC, Mafia was a phenomenal game. I had so much fun with it because it incorporated some new elements into the car-jacking, freeroaming genre: shooting out the window, unique rules on car theft (having to learn how to hotwire certain cars), speed limits for speeding, shooting through windows and killing drivers, deflatable tires, etc etc. It was like a mixture of Max Payne (on foot) with GTA (in the car)...done right. I heard the game was a mild stinker on the consoles though. It's unfortunate.

Damn, I loved Mafia on PC! I find it sad that one thing commonly criticized about the game (PC and consoles) was the speed of the cars.

[Kelegacy]

Damn, I loved Mafia on PC! I find it sad that one thing commonly criticized about the game (PC and consoles) was the speed of the cars.

That is unfair. The speeds were realistic for the era the game took place in. Also, it had one of the first sex scenes I had seen in a game. Nothing dirty, but tastefully done.

And the ending was superb and caught me totally off guard.

[Meshyf]

Welcome to PC vs. Console: The Most Pointless Argument of the Century.
I thought that was Roe Vs Wade