Cliffy B on X360: "This thing is a BEAST"

[Red Cloak]

Cliffy B received his X360 final kit a little under a week ago, he let everyone know that in his blog. After a few days with the system, he is singing it's praises, and then some in his latest blog entry:

I have seen the future - the next generation of consoles. I have had more than a taste of what true next generation gaming is going to have to offer and I'm here to tell you -

You're in for something special.

I can't speak much for Sony right now - yeah, we're working on stuff for the PS3 but honestly I'm so busy with Gears that it's all I'm seeing and I can tell you - Microsoft is giving you a hell of a system. This thing is a BEAST and is capable of MUCH GREATNESS.

Sigh. That's all I can say so far. I am, after all, under NDA.
http://cliffyb.1up.com/

I am seeing a good deal of X360 developers sing the praises of the X360 Final Kits on the Gaming Age forums. One even went as far as to say the final kits they just received blow the BETA kits from last month out of the water. Yes, the betas, not the alphas from E3.

[Zeal]

Believe it when I see it. Hype in the game industry is out of control.

[Phades]

Rather than be a cynic, I'll say I hope he's right and the new systems will blow us away. I'll be preordering mine soon :)

[Citizen Philip]

Umm forgive the sour grapes.

How do you objectively compare the newest console system to, its older couterpart, whose competition (ie. PS2) is older still?

Guys! This AMD64 system with 512 ATI vid card, blows the Intel3.6ghz 128 ATI vid card OUT OF TEH WATRE! ITS AAZAMAFINOFMG~!

Puhlease.

[Bushido]

this is not news...its lies damn lies.

[bobbler]

It seems to me that if the games are looking like they are now this early, then what can we expect near the end of the generation? Some crazy stuff.

Cliffy is probably a bit excited about things, I sure as hell would be -- getting to play with something that is arguably more powerful than any computer sold now? Exciting indeed.

[Wonka]

Man, why all the crazy cynicism? This isn't Microsoft pitching the X360. This is a relatively famous developer speaking here. More to the point, this is a developer who would definitely be suffering right now if the X360 was not exceeding his expectations by at least a little bit. I don't know anyone who is more critical/picky about console hardware or games than developers.

If the devs are saying good things then it must be pretty damned impressive. Not very much impresses those guys, because they always want about 50 times more than they have actually got.

[Heretic Machine]

If the devs are saying good things then it must be pretty damned impressive.

Depends on which devs you ask. If they happen to be developing for Console A, then they will probably say it's the best thing since sliced bread, especially before launch. If the console doesn't sell, neither do their games. I'm not gonna say that the 360 isn't an impressive piece of hardware, it is, but the price is a bit insane at this point, and the platform seems highly unstable. If I do end up getting one, it's gonna be far down the road when I can see what I need to buy, and what I don't.

[Morratut]

Mmmm people are saying good things about the Xbox. :)

All i've heard is that the Xbox360 is good for devs. Fingers crossed this will mean good games.

[RMan]

Although I do think the system is going to be nice, I hardly think a comment about that quality from any Epic employee should be taken that seriously (since no matter how bad it is they’re not going to bash it), much less from Cliff (I like the guy, but he's not a tech guru or anything). The system will not live up to it’s hype (what ever does?), but it’ll be good.

[ldi222]

This thread has more predictions than Nostradamus.

and the heavens will swoop down like an eagle as the living ascend to 360

[Stryfe01]

really...who can you actually count to be objective ? anyone can make it seem like the person giving praise to anything is biased. ie..."oh he\she's a fanboy." "oh, they work for (insert)" you get the point...take everything for what it is...someone else's opinion

[RMan]

A fair point, but I was just expressing that they have more likelihood than any other developer I can think of to be biased, so it’s tough to get riled up about their glowing praise since their full-throated endorsement is pretty much expected. I just don’t find it noteworthy (of course, I seldom find hype noteworthy anyway).

[bapenguin]

Ya know...they ARE working with a PS3...if he would have compared it to the PS3 dev kit, you would have complained that he compared the final 360 with the Devkit Ps3. He's simply an excited developer getting his hands on the most powerful piece of gaming hard ware (at this time). I'd be tellin the world as well. When you get to see your vision come together like that...who wouldn't be excited.

[Morratut]

Well said Bapenguin.

Hell i'd be exicted also if i could get my hands on it :D

I just want the UK release dates to be announced now. I want that date in my mind to look forward to :)

[H.Bogard]

cliffy b is a big KISSASS!

[RMan]

Hey, it's not like I'm bagging on the guy for what he said, just that it's veracity and newsworthiness is highly questionable.

[bapenguin]

Hey, it's not like I'm bagging on the guy for what he said, just that it's veracity and newsworthiness is highly questionable.

I think the newsworthiness is more of the fact that a developer got the final hardware and it performed as promised.

[balamoor]

And in other news today Ken K accidentally killed himself when trying to assimilate the PS-3 Architecture with a homemade Neural interface, Kens last words were I....am....The OVERMIND!!!!!

Yeah the console wars are so over. :rolleyes:

[DanAmerson]

Barg. He doesn't even tell you that much. Here's my take from working with the hardware, final or otherwise, for the last year. The GPU is very powerful, and it's got some really killer features to address common problems that GPUs traditionally have like bandwidth issues. The CPUs are also quite powerful, but they are quite different from what is on PC and what was in the first Xbox. It will take developers some more time to tap them fully both from the processor architecture stance and the fact that there are multiple processors.

dba

[Taco]

CliffyB still a level designer? AKA Graphics Whore?




/my pc is better

[Ernst_Jager]

It isn't like this man hasn't been part of one of the most successful gaming franchise ever. He may not appeal to everyone with his personality, but you have to respect him for the quality of his work.

[Taco]

Who's disrepecting him? I think he's great at what he does.

And I downloaded porn off his web site once, so he's cool with me.

[RMan]

It isn't like this man hasn't been part of one of the most successful gaming franchise ever.
Sure, and John Romero was a part of a bigger one (not an attack on Cliff, just the assumption about his ability being made here). Sometimes you’re in the right place at the right time, and being a part of something that scores doesn’t mean you were instrumental in it’s success. It may imbue you with a voice and power, but not ability.

[zeeeg]

Good thing they're getting the final dev kits in plenty of time before release. snerk.

I feel really sorry for any developer being pushed to a launch date release. And for the gamers who will have nothing worthwhile to play for months (except maybe Xbox1 games).

[Reanimated]

Hey, it's not like I'm bagging on the guy for what he said, just that it's veracity and newsworthiness is highly questionable.




You are so full of shit, it's just completely laughable.

Some people are very interested in this (including myself) and are interested to hear what someone of Cliffy B's stature has to say about final Xbox 360 development hardware.

If you don't find it "newsworthy", then feel free to use the scroll function on your mouse to move right on down to the next fucking post.

[RMan]

You are so full of shit, it's just completely laughable.
While you might find factless hype from someone who's essentially a Microsoft employee relevant news, the idea that someone else may not see it as such is hardly laughable.

[Taco]

I don't think CliffyB is the company whore type. He may just be excited, but I think he believes what he says.

[Hellstorm]

can't wait till he starts kissing Sony and Nintendo's asses as well. "OMG! The Revolution is sooooo Revolutionary and did I mention it runs the Unreal engine great! Buy the Unreal Engine!"

[bapenguin]

How in the hell is Cliffy B "essentially a Microsoft employee"

You just lost a ton of street cred there bro :)

I feel really sorry for any developer being pushed to a launch date release. And for the gamers who will have nothing worthwhile to play for months (except maybe Xbox1 games).

Have you seen how many games are coming out at launch?

[Reanimated]

Strange that a "Microsoft employee" like Cliffy B would be working on PS3 games.

What kind of fucking delusional world are you living in, chief?

[RMan]

I don't think CliffyB is the company whore type. He may just be excited, but I think he believes what he says.
I think you're more than likely correct, I'm just stating the kind of disinterest I'd have in any MS game studio lead’s glowing praise of their boss’s work. Although “company whore” is way strong, I’m sure Cliff is well aware of how important his relationship to MS is to his career. I’ve seen no evidence of him being a sell-out or anything, but neither have I seen evidence of him rocking the boat (which doesn’t necessarily mean anything). In the end, without information about the person, I wouldn’t put much stock in anything positive they said about their boss, because the politics involved are just too powerful to ignore.

[Taco]

I guess I was taking peoples word for it more than I should, was Epic sucked into MS or something?

CliffyB works for Epic last time I checked, who's Epics publisher?

[Taco]

Judging by their web site MS has only licensed their engine, like a dozen other companies.

[Taco]

In the end, without information about the person, I wouldn’t put much stock in anything positive they said about their boss, because the politics involved are just too powerful to ignore.

In the end, my final judgement until shown otherwise is that you are talking out of your ass. Cliff doesn't work for MS anymore than he does Midway or Vivendi or SONY or NCSoft or pick your licensee.

For the doubters. (http://www.epicgames.com/press_ps3.html)

[Reanimated]

In the end, my final judgement until shown otherwise is that you are talking out of your ass. Cliff doesn't work for MS anymore than he does Midway or Vivendi or SONY or NCSoft or pick your licensee.

For the doubters. (http://www.epicgames.com/press_ps3.html)



Taco FTW!!!

[bean19]

I'd beleive this more if Cliffy B wasn't Bill Gates girlfriend. ;)

Actually, really cool to see a developer excited about a next-gen console. As I've said before, I want all the new systems to be kick ass. Compete and bring me bargains!

[RMan]

In the end, my final judgement until shown otherwise is that you are talking out of your ass. Cliff doesn't work for MS anymore than he does Midway or Vivendi or SONY or NCSoft or pick your licensee.
Ok, Gears of War is an XBox 360 exclusive title being published by Microsoft Game Studios. The current word is that it is not even being published on the PC and definately not on PS3 (do you really think this is Epic's choice). Do I really have to explain how the publisher/developer relationship works before you understand the importance of the lead designer's relationship with his publisher?

[Xerxes]

He's probably just glad his game is turning out pretty well. Maybe it's not providing a fucking headache to work on xbox 360. I mean if it was shitty, there would be no reason for him to even make on remark on his blog. Side note, i was gonna say who the hell is cliffyb but I looked him up. I think i once confused him with Sweeny.

RMan cliffyb may not be a tech guru... But we can't just debunk him..

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000040054627/
John Carmack has gone on the record at the recent QuakeCon with a killer quote that the Xbox 360 is ”the best development environment” he’s seen for a console.

According to Carmack, the Xbox 360 has the best architecture and development tools so the game devs can do their jobs better. In contrast he thinks the PS3 will be harder to develop for with inital games being disappointing as a result.

[Taco]

How about you show me where Microsoft is the publisher for Epic, Cliffy's employer? GOW is a Unreal engined game, Cliffy is providing support just like id does for their Doom and Quake engined games. Cliffy will likely be doing the same for Unreal engined games that come out on the PS3.

Edit: Of course now I read MS is publishing Gear of War, do they publish all Epic's games? Damn console world :)

[Reanimated]

Nice. I hadn't seen that Joystiq article. I read on IGN that Carmack was making Xbox 360 his lead development platform next gen, but I hadn't seen those other quotes.

[Taco]

So Microsoft is paying Epic to develop Gears of War, while Epic is providing software to all of Microsoft's competition? This seems to be the case.

[RMan]

Yea, this is the case, and it's not all that odd. You don't have to buy out a developer to purchase one of it's games. Although MS does typically do this, in Epic's case they would be unwilling to buy out the engine since it has such a strong cross-platform commodity that they couldn't really utilize it (this would be a colossal waste of money). This move allows Epic to develop and market a larger product than they could alone, and since the PS3 is so far off it doesn’t hurt them to make it exclusive.

[Taco]

I still think Cliffy's allegiance is to Epic not MS :D. He's on loan to MS.

[Xerxes]

Why would cliffyb kiss MS ass. They should kiss his, not for liking their dev kit, but for making the only thing that floors people about xbox 360. I mean aside from Oblivion, Gears of War is the ticket. I doubt he is worrying about "if i don't say something nice ms will not publish it." That has to be the farest thing from his mind. EA, UBI, Take Two, and body else with eye and money would publish this. It's not Azurik here.

[RMan]

RMan cliffyb may not be a tech guru... But we can't just debunk him..
I wasn't, just saying that in his situation and experience these types of comments are not rock solid. IOW, I'm not saying the information is wrong, just suspect.

[Taco]

All developers comments are suspect by that logic. I'm certainly not about to disregaurd them all and say they are not newsworthy.

[Wonka]

In general I have always found that developers are more or less willing to freely speak their minds about game consoles, while publishers are the ones who are always full of lies and deceit.

The reason is because in this industry there is a pretty clear dichtomy of effort. Where a developer gets paid for simply making a good product and the publishers get paid for selling that product. A developer will probably hesitate to say something bad about the TITLE that they are working on, but they generally are not "trained" to avoid saying bad things about their current platform the way that publishers are... Even more important is the fact that developers get saddled with the hassle of actually working with the consoles in question, so the limitations of a console are a really big deal to developers. In contrast, the publishers are completely free from this hassle and often clueless about the true ramifications of this to boot. So I stand by my observation that developers are the most demanding people that I know about what is in a console. Nobody else has to put up with any limitations to the extent that they do. And they absolutely tend to be the very harshest critics. Not just in terms of how easy it is to make games for, but how much muscle (or limitations) it brings to what they want to do.

Could CliffyB be lying through his teeth because he somehow thinks this will boost sales in some significant way? Sure it's possible, but I consider it damned unlikely based on the developers I have known. I sincerely doubt that he is even thinking about that very much. He has his hands full thinking of how they are going to use all those threads without a random slowdown caused by some obscure, long overlooked architecture limitation.

[RMan]

All developers comments are suspect by that logic. I'm certainly not about to disregaurd them all and say they are not newsworthy.
Considering the lack of information, I would, but it's clearly subjective.
Why would cliffyb kiss MS ass. They should kiss his, not for liking their dev kit, but for making the only thing that floors people about xbox 360.
Well, I think you underestimate how much of an effect MS's marketing and resources have had, and will continue to have on the project's success (I guess you think the Halo series would have done just as well without MS?). You’re statements imply that his pure genius or effort has made this game what it is, and although he may be doing wonderful things, what we have seen that’s impressive is the result of exceptional art and technology, the “direction” of the project is not blowing anyone’s socks off. The idea he’s a superstar of such magnitude that he’s not subject to the normal pressures of working for a company like MS is inaccurate, I think.

[trip1eX]

The guy is making a 360 game so he's going to show a lot of love for it. That's the way the world is.

PLus I'm sure every programmer that plays with new hardware turns all giddy upon touching it.

That's why this is all like saying the sky is blue. We know the hardware is alot more powerful. That's the way technology goes after 4 years and from generation to generation.

But some folks seem to read more into that and think that some martian technology is inside the 360. That games will suddenly give you a reach around while playing them.

All this sht mostly means is that the games are going to look better. For an example check out some of the latest pc games.

I mean has any generation of consoles not had alot more graphical power than the generation before????

[Xerxes]

RMan. Sure MD hype machine could help the game sell 2.5 million like they did for halo 2. But Halo 2 was also riding on the people that liked the first title. THIS however was hyped more so by Epic. They used the clips in the demo reels, it's the first Unreal 3 Engine game that's not Unreal related, and it's a xbox 360 game. Truth be told though MS marketing can do some force feeding. Halo 2 was everywhere. Now a full length Gears of War trailer at the movies is something I want to see.

[mister_slim]

I don't think CliffyB is the company whore type. He may just be excited, but I think he believes what he says.
So he's Epic's Molyneux?
Strange that a "Microsoft employee" like Cliffy B would be working on PS3 games.

What kind of fucking delusional world are you living in, chief?
And what the fuck are you talking about?

[Heretic Machine]

X-boys vs Reason vs Anti-X-boys!

A summer blockbuster in the making!

[Karmakaze]

I have no clue where people are getting this Epic = MSFT spiel.

Sure, GoW is an xbox exclusive. But don't forget Sony licensed the UE3 for redistribution to PS3 developers:

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3774

I don't see how that makes Cliffy a msft employee...

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Why would cliffyb kiss MS ass. They should kiss his, not for liking their dev kit, but for making the only thing that floors people about xbox 360. I mean aside from Oblivion, Gears of War is the ticket. I doubt he is worrying about "if i don't say something nice ms will not publish it." That has to be the farest thing from his mind. EA, UBI, Take Two, and body else with eye and money would publish this. It's not Azurik here.
Sorry, but I am way more into Huxley than Gears of War...now that game looks impressive...plus they showed a little ingame with one of the vehicles...it looked smooth.

[Bushido]

Puff Peice

[Rangoth]

LOL
I love all of this. Its great. Look, CliffyB isn't much older then me, I've met him and he is a hell of a nice guy. Dude is where he is because long ago he said he was willing to do what I am unwilling to do, work psychotic hours under insane work conditions. His opinion is just as valid re: the XBOX360 as Carmack, Jobs, Mitnick, or The Woz. Just because he has a celeb status doesn't make his opinion any less valid. He got where he is through hard fucking work man! Look at what he has DONE, his games have kicked ass.

[Heretic Machine]

I love all of this. Its great. Look, CliffyB isn't much older then me, I've met him and he is a hell of a nice guy. Dude is where he is because long ago he said he was willing to do what I am unwilling to do, work psychotic hours under insane work conditions. His opinion is just as valid re: the XBOX360 as Carmack, Jobs, Mitnick, or The Woz. Just because he has a celeb status doesn't make his opinion any less valid. He got where he is through hard fucking work man! Look at what he has DONE, his games have kicked ass.

...and? What the fuck is your point? No one said that he didn't deserve to be where he is, or that he was a bad developer. People are questioning his motives, his biases, the hype factor that may be influencing him. Plus, it's sort of a puff piece, as Bushido has pointed out. He doesn't really go into specifics, he just says that it's great.

Well, that's cool, but it's not really news now is it?

[pomeroy]

Jesus. This thread is lame.

[Murmillo]

Lets see, CliffyB - has made "many" great games likes the 360 and he is kissing MS ass? But then we have Gabe, who has made two PC games, hates the 360 and we should listen to him because he knows what he is talking about?

WTF is wrong with people.

[Heretic Machine]

Lets see, CliffyB - has made "many" great games likes the 360 and he is kissing MS ass? But then we have Gabe, who has made two PC games, hates the 360 and we should listen to him because he knows what he is talking about?

WTF is wrong with people.

We SHOULD take this shit with a fucking grain of salt instead of going ape shit every time someone utters "360".

[Murmillo]

I'm just sayin....

[RMan]

RMan. Sure MD hype machine could help the game sell 2.5 million like they did for halo 2.
Actually, I was referring to all resources, which includes marketing, money, and people. We do not know how much this has improved their products, but we know that MS takes this launch seriously and has incredible resources, the idea that none of that has been supplied to Gears of War or that it hasn't had a great effect on the quality of what we've seen from it is pretty illogical. If I were MS, putting 40M towards a top tier product would be very reasonable, and it’s likely no coincidence that we see a quantum leap in the quality of their art after they likely started working on GOW. In the end I think we can all be happy that we’ve seen Epic rise from a small company to a big player, which is always cool, but the idea that MS has not played a big part in their recent success is unlikely.