Samsung to Launch HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Player

[bapenguin]

Samsung, a backer of Blu-Ray, will be launching a dual format player sometime next year that supports both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray next gen DVD formats.Samsung's head of consumer electronics, Choi Gee-sung, told the Financial Times Deutschland: "We would welcome a unified standard but if this doesn't come, which looks likely, we'll bring a unified solution to market."

"It won't be simple but you'll see our solution in the coming year. Consumers will be too confused otherwise," he added in the interview published on Tuesday.

What if the agreement between the parties are all players must be dual format? That way this would be invisible to the customer and each camp can go on making their own disc format.

[Tricky Thumb]

Well as long as it doesn't drastically fatten up the price tag I really don't mind this. Although I don't think it will prevent a sort of "format wars" from taking place, at least in a minor way.

[Jetherik]

Good solution to the sticky problem. First players are going to be expensive to begin with, but with in a few years the price will be affordable for all.

[fitbabits]

Are you paying attention, Sony? This is what's called a compromise!

com·pro·mise: A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.

[KarmaGhost]

You know it'll make it more expensive, even down the road. I'm in no hurry to grab me an HD disk player of any kind.

[SMES]

Three words: Wait and see.

Pay $300+ for a dual format next gen DVD player that I don't need, don't want, and view as a roughshod solution to major corporations whining over which format will replace DVD? NO THANKS.

[Chandler]

Are you paying attention, Sony? This is what's called a compromise!

com·pro·mise: A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.

I'm not sure what evidence there is that Sony didn't compromise as much as the HD-DVD side were willing to.

ev·i·dence: A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment.

[fitbabits]

I'm not sure what evidence there is that Sony didn't compromise as much as the HD-DVD side were willing to.

ev·i·dence: A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment.

My post was in reference to the overall climate at Sony HQ, not just the Blu-Ray debacle.

[Heretic Machine]

Ya, we need a new format since most people are just now getting a reasonable DVD library!

[kathode]

Because why pay for one next-gen format player when you could pay for TWO! Brilliant!

[mister_slim]

I guess this would have a slight added convenience, as people would be able to play whatever few movies are released only on the losing format. Really though, to go mainstream pricepoint is going to be key. And this is not going to reduce the price (and they'd have to license from the Blu-Ray consortium and the DVD Forum. More money). Dual layer BD/DVD disks makes more sense.

[Tricky Thumb]

I'm still waiting for the future when all our media discs will be the size of a nickle, anyway.

Besides, you know that these formats will only really be sought after be the early adopters. DVD isn't going anywhere for a while, consumers aren't gonna have that. Even still, the idea of a drive that can handle both is nice if you can't make up your mind... Though a pricey piece of hardware for a niche market isn't exactly a good business model.

[Morrolan]

I don't care if this thing costs five dollars. Unless HDTVs come down in price, it's all a moot point.

[Orphiuchus]

Disks are an arcadic way to store information. Just wait, in 5 years nobody will still have a HD-DVD or Blue-Ray player. It will be flash, or streaming, or something like that. Moving parts are fine for cavemen, but its the 21st century people.

[lpmiller]

dvd hasn't been around so long that it's even remotely the right time to force out a new format. Much less competing formats.

[picky]

The good thing about this, is that it should also be backwards compatible for DVDs too, right?

I do not see myself buying it (first generation players are never feature complete, and are error prone), but the idea is sound. It also is great for their customer service department, since they will not be receiving as many calls about, "x [HD-]DVD not working on this player!"

[bickle]

2 formats will never be invisible to the consumer. At the very least, stores will need to decide which or both formats to stock for a movie. The avg consumer will wonder what the difference is between the 2 discs, and why one is more expensive (Blu-ray).

[T-Dub]

Disks are an arcadic way to store information. Just wait, in 5 years nobody will still have a HD-DVD or Blue-Ray player. It will be flash, or streaming, or something like that. Moving parts are fine for cavemen, but its the 21st century people.
Here here! Once we finally spinning plastic/magnetic discs at high speeds we will see the greatest performance increase in a decade (not to mention battery life for laptops).

[Herodotus5]

hey at the very least it allows for the consumer to be able to say which they prefer through media purchases instead of hopeing that the sales rep wasnt lieing to them about buying on disk playewr type over the other. I work in Magnolia which is inside of Bestbuy, and most of my coworkers are freaking morons who still act like we are on commision.

[T-Dub]

Am I the only one who has trouble foreseeing the owners of the format dictating to the producers of the hardware that they must dramatically increase their production cost and use both formats? Not to mention that the increadibly high price of the player would further stagnate consumer willingness to move to a new format.

The only thing samsung is doing is trying to cash in on all those people who paid $15,000 for their 720i plasma tv 5 years ago. People who want to have the latest and greatest no matter the cost. It's a smart move including both formats because nobody knows for sure which one will eventually win out (and one of them will) so including them both makes it so they don't have to choose.

I also predict that, sadly, HD-DVD will win out in the end if it comes down to a battle. Even though blue ray is a superior technology *cough* beta-max *cough* HD-DVD has the cost advantage. Not only are they cheaper to begin with but the HD-DVD players will be backwards compatible without having to add a 2nd "laser". Admittedly Sony will have the PS3 advantage, but that won't start paying off for at least 1-2 years after the PS3 launch when they start to gain some serious market share. Even then I doubt the console market is anything compared to the DVD market and will have only a minor impact.

This of course assumes that the market will even support another spinning disc technology.

[Babbster]

I also predict that, sadly, HD-DVD will win out in the end if it comes down to a battle. Even though blue ray is a superior technology *cough* beta-max *cough* HD-DVD has the cost advantage.

Big difference is that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will both *cough* play movies back at the same quality *cough*.

The only people who care about Blu-Ray winning over HD-DVD are those in the Blu-Ray "camp" and people who believe that an extra 10 GB of storage are going to change their life (and, of course, those people will STILL be able to buy Blu-Ray recorders even if BR ends up being "beaten").

And to anyone who thinks that Samsung is looking to take advantage of consumers with this, y'all ain't too bright. Allow me to wax poetic by saying that I think Samsung has been a bright, shining light in this age of HD. They have been leading the way in terms of dropping prices (which only now are beaten by the smallish companies) and making more traditionally sized CRT HDTVs (I own one of their 27" models). Unlike Sony which has been charging ridiculous prices for mediocre products, Samsung has been trying to bring HDTV to "the masses." I'll certainly be giving them the benefit of the doubt when I consider buying a high-definition disc player.

[bobbler]

I also predict that, sadly, HD-DVD will win out in the end if it comes down to a battle. Even though blue ray is a superior technology *cough* beta-max *cough* HD-DVD has the cost advantage. Not only are they cheaper to begin with but the HD-DVD players will be backwards compatible without having to add a 2nd "laser". Admittedly Sony will have the PS3 advantage, but that won't start paying off for at least 1-2 years after the PS3 launch when they start to gain some serious market share. Even then I doubt the console market is anything compared to the DVD market and will have only a minor impact.

This of course assumes that the market will even support another spinning disc technology.

I think some of you are forgetting the major differences between the betamax / vhs battle, and the BR / HD-DVD battle. The comparison doesn't really work these days. The situations are vastly different (this time it is more than just one company, both sides have consortiums backing them -- and oddly enough the company competing against Sony in the betamax war is on Sony's side -- JVC is a brand of Matsushita's).
-- Betamax wasn't a sure fire superior bet (It had recording length issues, I believe).
-- BR has more production support than betamax had (betamax was carried by essentially just sony at first -- BR has a consortium behind it, consisting of all the biggest companies in production capacity).
-- Sony has changed drastically as a company since betamax; they own a substantial share of the video content out there (that is instant backing without any outside support).

The way I see it, BR is the only smart option to support. It has better capacity in all aspects (length and/or bit rate quality -- although HD-DVD and BR will both apparently have the same quality video) and cost will be negligable in a year or two. BR is also seemingly designed for faster read/write speeds than HD-DVD is, in the long run (part of the reason information layer is so close to the surface is the reading of information becomes less affected by disc jitter/wobble at high RPMs).

So it isn't so clear cut, I certainly wouldn't bet on HD-DVD because the only advantage it has is temporary -- literally, the only. I just don't see how any consumer would want HD-DVD over BR considering all the aspects that affect them directly are better or equal on BR (I realize you said "sadly" T-Dub, so this isn't towards you). Cost of disc manufacturing (in the ROM segment at least) isn't going to be directly passed on to them, the cost increase we see will be based off percieved quality increase of the content (like dvd vs vhs -- dvd's are more, but they are cheaper to produce).

PS: HD-DVD requires a second laser for DVD B/C, or a dual frequency laser -- HD-DVD is blue laser based just like BR is (the laser frequency for BR and HD-DVD are the same -- 405nm, compared to 650nm of DVD). Also as far as I can tell, the touted cost advantage is only short term -- if companies want to press as many discs as they can (which they will), they will have to fully replace those production lines to stuff made for HD-DVD pressing anyways (speculation on my part, but I don't see how it won't be the case).

[Mason]

Feh, honestly I say that HD-DVD stands a better chance on marketing alone. When the people with more money than brains go to Best Buy and ask that if they're getting a HDTV, shouldn't they get a "hi def dvd player" also, maybe, because they heard someone talking about those. And is the clerk going to then explain all about the format wars, and about this BluRay thing, and whatever marginal differences there are, or is he going to just point out where the HD-DVD players are?

Just imagine which piece of electronics your mom would end up walking out of Best Buy with, and you know which one will end up winning. Unless Sony makes a major marketing campaign starting yesterday to get strong public consciousness about BluRay before we start seeing non-dual players on the shelves, they are in trouble.

Overall, though, I'm disgusted by every member of both consortia for not pushing for a compromise. Either format would work perfectly fine, and anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. The consumer will get to pay for this squabble one way or another. A failure of capitalism, no matter how you slice it.

[Mason]

bobbler: HD-DVD's single advantage is also one of the most important for short-term minded companies. These transitions are costly for everyone, but it is a less costly transition from DVD to HD-DVD than to BR. Yes, in the long run that difference disappears, but companies think a quarter at a time. And historically these issues are decided more by momentum than anything else.

Of the two of them, BR appeals more to the tech geek inside me. But neither of us are footing the bill to get BR production lines set up, so what is trivial to us might be of supreme importance to those whose decisions actually effect the roll-out of these dumbass formats.

[picky]

Am I the only one who has trouble foreseeing the owners of the format dictating to the producers of the hardware that they must dramatically increase their production cost and use both formats?Ya, I am confident that no company backing either technology is saying to Samsung and the rest, "Please use both!" They want THEIR technology to win and they do NOT want to support the other so that it dies even faster (since changing to the other format, or using both would be very expensive). Samsung wants to be the first to market such a product because they are obviously worried about Blue Ray winning (since they actually back Blue Ray as far as I know).

[MajSheppard]

How many times can I say, "I love Samsung."

[bobbler]

bobbler: HD-DVD's single advantage is also one of the most important for short-term minded companies. These transitions are costly for everyone, but it is a less costly transition from DVD to HD-DVD than to BR. Yes, in the long run that difference disappears, but companies think a quarter at a time. And historically these issues are decided more by momentum than anything else.

Of the two of them, BR appeals more to the tech geek inside me. But neither of us are footing the bill to get BR production lines set up, so what is trivial to us might be of supreme importance to those whose decisions actually effect the roll-out of these dumbass formats.

But It seems to me that most companies have decided it is worth the price of admission -- Matsushita (Panasonic, JVC, etc), Samsung, Pioneer, Hitachi, LG, Sharp, Thomson, Philips are all on the board of directors of the BR consortium. HD-DVD's biggest company is Toshiba, Sanyo, and NEC after that (and really that is about it). I fully understand the arguement that price matters, but when a majority of the production market decides it apparently doesn't matter enough that it is prohibitive, I'm inclined to believe them. If these companies weren't on the board of directors I might be a bit more wary -- but since they apparently like the format enough that they want to be associated with it, I have a bit of faith.

Look at the companies in support for BR and then look at those in support for HD-DVD -- HD-DVD is mostly smaller companies, and on top of that there are fewer of them. So, with that in mind, I can't bring myself to believe that the price of the disc/drives are really that prohibitive that HD-DVD will win. If cheapness were really the main factor, you wouldn't have a landslide of support in BR's direction. I'd actually be willing to bet that BR drives/players will get cheaper faster than HD-DVD (more companies seem to be making BR drives/players than HD-DVD -- something like 80% of consumer electronics companies are behind BR).

Who knows though...

[NightRain]

I don't care if this thing costs five dollars. Unless HDTVs come down in price, it's all a moot point.

HDTV's have come down in price a lot, you can get smaller 30" or less CRT HDTV's for $400-500 range pretty easily, and larger 42"-51" Rear Projection HDTV's can be easily found for under $1000 during any holiday sale and sometimes far less. Even 42" Plasma screens can be found in the $1500 range if you look and don't mind a lower quality brand name. My first HDTV was a 50" Toshiba and it was almost $4000, I can get three of the replacement 51" model with more features for that price now easily. 66% price drop on such a large item in 5 years isn't bad. I now have a 57" Toshiba RP HDTV and I love it, you can buy them for around $1500, which is fair for what you get. Friend of mine got a 30" Widescreen Toshiba CRT HDTV, Xbox system with a couple games and extra controller, Xbox HD cable, and a Pioneer Progressive Scan Divx DVD player for less than $1000 total. Thats very fair.

[Roc Ingersol]

It probably is in the consumers best interest if they do a format war.

It's the only way that one of them might push a rewritable drive into the consumer market. Give Joe Sixpack the record button back, and he'll upgrade.

(Sure, they should have a DVR. But this is Joe Sixpack. His VCR clock still blinks 12:00)

Besides: only those dirty early-adopters get hurt when one format loses.

[XenonCJ]

It probably is in the consumers best interest if they do a format war.

It's the only way that one of them might push a rewritable drive into the consumer market. Give Joe Sixpack the record button back, and he'll upgrade.

(Sure, they should have a DVR. But this is Joe Sixpack. His VCR clock still blinks 12:00)

Besides: only those dirty early-adopters get hurt when one format loses.I dissagree, most Joe Sixpacks have a DVR these days... Even my parents have one, and that's still and insane concept to me...

[picky]

Feh, honestly I say that HD-DVD stands a better chance on marketing alone. When the people with more money than brains go to Best Buy and ask that if they're getting a HDTV, shouldn't they get a "hi def dvd player" also, maybe, because they heard someone talking about those. And is the clerk going to then explain all about the format wars, and about this BluRay thing, and whatever marginal differences there are, or is he going to just point out where the HD-DVD players are?I agree with this to a degree, but I am also reminded of the frequent number of know-it-all nerds that have predetermined what is best for you. Maybe the guy at Best Buy hates Microsoft and loves Sony? He is going to probably suggest BR, regardless, and he may even make an appealing argument to anyone that did not know either way.