SOE Partners with LiveGamer for Real-Money Trading in The Agency

[Mondopest]

From GamingShogun (http://www.gamingshogun.com/Article/1580/SOE_Partners_with_Live_Gamer_for_Real-Money_Trades_in_The_Agency):
Official Release:
Live Gamer, the premier operator of a publisher-supported marketplace for real money trading of virtual items, has announced it has entered into an agreement with Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) to offer real money trading (RMT) in the upcoming titles published by SOE -- The Agency™ and Free Realms™. The two companies are leading the evolution of the gaming industry into transaction-based business models that open emergent game play styles for gamers and opportunities for publishers.

Live Gamer’s service, called Live Gamer Exchange™, will provide the SOE gaming community within these new games with a trusted way to conduct real-money transactions. Earlier this year, Live Gamer incorporated SOE’s proven Station Exchange technology, the first publisher-developed and sanctioned RMT marketplace, into its own e-commerce platform. The Live Gamer Exchange is currently operating within EverQuest® II, SOE’s popular MMORPG (www.livegamer.com)...

Hmm, so what do you think: Are these officially sponsored RMT services in-game a good thing, or, is it better if devs go anti-RMT altogether? I tend to lean towards the latter.

[TrackZero]

Sony Online Entertainment, bringing you the future you didn't want, today.

[Telefrog]

How well does this work in EQ2?

Was anyone asking for this service?

[Sandman]

I don't trust SOE with my real money for subscriptions...why would I trust them with it for a transaction?

[Gorvi]

Yeah, my interest in the game just went away completely. RMT in MMOs is something I want no part of, sanctioned by the publisher or not.

[JediSanf]

RMT takes the gaming out of gaming. Look to China for an example of shit we don't want or need over here.

[Heretic Machine]

You can keep it, thanks :)

[Mondopest]

I was originally on the fence about the game. It looked like it could be fun but wasn't sold by any means. This news definitely turns me off on the whole thing.

[Hemalin]

How well does this work in EQ2?

Was anyone asking for this service?

Chinese gold farmers wouldn't exist if people weren't buying crap from them.

[GrinR]

I'm there! If only Blizzard would wake up and get on-board as well...

[Lekon]

Yeah, my interest in the game just went away completely. RMT in MMOs is something I want no part of, sanctioned by the publisher or not.

I have to agree with Gorvi here. Sony seems to have a habit of destroying the game worlds they do get, then trying to milk some last cash out of them. That they want to make RMT such an integral part of the game sends up a lot of red flags.

So what happens to all those neat items you buy when the expansion comes out and the *really* good items come out? Or what about when they do an NGE for Agency that revamps everything and makes all the old items worthless? Heck, what happens when no one's really playing so they have to start merging servers and changing what little economies they have?

All I can think with SOE is the NGE, and Star Wars Galaxies before and after, the giant ghost cities.

[Hemalin]

So what happens to all those neat items you buy when the expansion comes out and the *really* good items come out? Or what about when they do an NGE for Agency that revamps everything and makes all the old items worthless? Heck, what happens when no one's really playing so they have to start merging servers and changing what little economies they have?


The same thing that happens now when people pay real money for in-game items?

[Lekon]

The same thing that happens now when people pay real money for in-game items?

Fear, Fear leading to anger, Anger leading to forum posts, forum posts leading to cancellations and livejournal whines?

[Lorekeep]

Building a game from scratch to incorporate RMT is the kind of decision that means "We care more about making money from games than making great games to earn money." External factors affecting internal performance (not in the sense of hardware but in the sense of "How rich is the player in real life?") is one of those things that ruins the concept of a game.

This is a huge hit to how I'll perceive the Agency. What they are telling me is that they cannot build a game that doesn't try to fleece you for money and will have rules that take real life into account.

Note that I'll still probably try it, but the game better be free if they are intending to build in RMT from the ground-up. I imagine the stuff you can buy will be fluff items combined with faster leveling or buffs (for PVE. PvP Buffs would be incredibly stupid).

[Apushmataha]

I thought this looked cool, but RMT is the bane of all MMOs. If currency can be bought for money, then there's nothing preventing the economy from skyrocketing.

I play my MMOs to have fun and enjoy the fact that the game world is sometimes more fair than the real one, i.e., if I take the time to learn how the game works, I gain the benefits, like lots of currency, powerful items, etc. This reminds me how much I love FFXI. At least Square-Enix was committed to the game enough to create a freakin' task force to crush RMT jerks.

[Lekon]

I imagine the stuff you can buy will be fluff items combined with faster leveling or buffs (for PVE. PvP Buffs would be incredibly stupid).

I'll add to this. If it is free to try. As in actually free, not 15 bucks for the purchase and then free monthly? I'll give it a shot. I somehow doubt SOE is going to make a free console MMO based off RMT's though.

As to the "Incredibly stupid".. SOE has a track record of doing just that.

[GrinR]

I have yet to hear anything remotely convincing about the negative impact of purchasing in-game resources with real-life money. Every argument ends up being about either farmers, who exist regardless of this market, or the hazards of nefarious vendors who install keyloggers or other malware, who exist regardless of this market.

[Deadend]

If your game requires players to grind for money to get to the good stuff, your game sucks. Grinding for gold or XP sucks, grinding sucks. If your game is not called Lineage 2, it should not have grinding.

Thus if RMT seems like a good idea for your game, your game sucks.

[Alamias]

If they do it like they do it in EQ2 (Only on a specific server, and it is clearly marked as a server that uses RMT) then I don't see a problem with it. Play on the non RMT servers and you don't have to deal with it and won't be effected by it.

[Hemalin]

I have yet to hear anything remotely convincing about the negative impact of purchasing in-game resources with real-life money. Every argument ends up being about either farmers, who exist regardless of this market, or the hazards of nefarious vendors who install keyloggers or other malware, who exist regardless of this market.

The difference between publisher endorsed versus publisher scorned? Probably not too much difference. My experience with WoW has shown the effect on the economy with items overpriced compared to what you'd normally be able to farm at that level. There are other factors which can fuck up the economy just as much such as a boom in alts or twinks. It usually didn't bother me too much. My real concern was farmers getting in the way of quests and training mobs onto me.

[Heretic Machine]

Chinese gold farmers wouldn't exist if people weren't buying crap from them.

Yeah, but people hate gold farmers because they disrupt the economy of the game; how does making the publisher into an official gold dealer make things any better?

[Gorvi]

Chinese gold farmers wouldn't exist if people weren't buying crap from them.
And I'd rather not play with the shits that support them.

[Hemalin]

Yeah, but people hate gold farmers because they disrupt the economy of the game; how does making the publisher into an official gold dealer make things any better?

The economy is usually fucked no matter what. My real concern is with farmers getting in my way. If SOE becomes the dealer, people wouldn't need to rely on shady cartels that get in the way of me killing water elementals.

[Squidbot]

And I'd rather not play with the shits that support them.

Seconded. This doesn't surprise me really, yet another reason to not play an SOE title.

[RMan]

Yeah, but people hate gold farmers because they disrupt the economy of the game; how does making the publisher into an official gold dealer make things any better?
People hate gold farmers because they are a convenient target for hatred. Although I'm sure they effect the economy to some degree, I have seen absolutely no evidence of it. The people in WoW I've seen jacking up prices in the AH have invariably been players. The problem with the economy in any MMO is that there is one. Money is freely tradable, and as long as the money to time ratio grows with your level, high level players will spend more money on stuff than low level 'natural' players can. Clearly any game can fix these problems, but regarding this issue, I honestly don't see a big difference between people that have more real-life time than I have overpricing stuff vs. people with more real-life money (or willingness to spend it) overpricing stuff. In the end the game's design will dictate how much traded resources impact the gameplay.

I still do not believe that Blizzard, for instance, has a big problem with gold farming or power leveling, although I'm sure they'd love to get a cut of those profits. I think they just feel it's not worth the trade-off to make it 'official'.

[Vanthar]

I think this could work if they built the game knowing this. It could put a much lower emphasis on typical WOW style of items and money == power.

[Deadend]

I think this could work if they built the game knowing this. It could put a much lower emphasis on typical WOW style of items and money == power.

Well, at least the best gear can't be bought... but the best enchants and gems can be. So WoW is more a game where time+skill == power. But being able to afford the best buffs for your class and best gems does make up for not having Season 3 or is it 4 now gear.

[Hemalin]

I still do not believe that Blizzard, for instance, has a big problem with gold farming or power leveling, although I'm sure they'd love to get a cut of those profits. I think they just feel it's not worth the trade-off to make it 'official'.

Blizzard doesn't give a shit. I've reported botters multiple times and talked to multiple GMs. They don't do crap.

[Heretic Machine]

The economy is usually fucked no matter what. My real concern is with farmers getting in my way. If SOE becomes the dealer, people wouldn't need to rely on shady cartels that get in the way of me killing water elementals.

What do you mean, getting in your way? How is that relevant in any contemporary MMO? This might of been a justified stance in the original EQ, but it has long since been taken care of by the evolution of MMO design.

[Gheritt]

People hate gold farmers because they are a convenient target for hatred. Although I'm sure they effect the economy to some degree, I have seen absolutely no evidence of it. The people in WoW I've seen jacking up prices in the AH have invariably been players. The problem with the economy in any MMO is that there is one. Money is freely tradable, and as long as the money to time ratio grows with your level, high level players will spend more money on stuff than low level 'natural' players can. Clearly any game can fix these problems, but regarding this issue, I honestly don't see a big difference between people that have more real-life time than I have overpricing stuff vs. people with more real-life money (or willingness to spend it) overpricing stuff. In the end the game's design will dictate how much traded resources impact the gameplay.

I still do not believe that Blizzard, for instance, has a big problem with gold farming or power leveling, although I'm sure they'd love to get a cut of those profits. I think they just feel it's not worth the trade-off to make it 'official'.

It's about the player base and how they value their time they invest in the game. Having gold available for real life cash would devalue achievements people spend a significant time doing, Crafting epic items or Gaining an epic flying mount for example. Would you be inclined to play as much if every one could pay a small amount of real world money to achieve what took you weeks of playtime ?

I'm quite sure blizzards revenues would go up but people would play less and I'm quite sure socialize less, the existing playerbase would feel disheartened as their work is now equal to a small amount of real world cash. These are the reasons that blizzard is so strongly against goldselling and goldfarming(Blizzard have made significant UI changes recently to help stamp out and report ingame advertising of goldselling sites, some of the gold obviously comes from keylogged players whose inventories have been cleaned out by "hackers")

It's easy to forget now, but goldfarmers were responsible for server instability when they were farming/hacking Dire maul runs, they're the reason you now can't open chests in combat and as such WOW players have a right to feel a certain resentment towards those "players" who have such a negative impact on their game.

Blizzard doesn't give a shit. I've reported botters multiple times and talked to multiple GMs. They don't do crap.

Just because you report a "botter" does not make GMs ban them instantly, generally they wait until they have gathered a significant amount of accounts. This ensures that fewer slip through the net or manage to figure out blizzard's exact procedures regarding banning so they can avoid them. That being said, if a GM contacts a "botter" you report and there is someone who responds at the keyboard, there isn't much they can do. Claiming GMs or blizzard don't care about farmers/botters is frankly just silly given how many accounts they've banned regarding them.

[Farsight]

Personally, I'd prefer people that want to buy in-game money do it through the game itself. Then that money goes to the game's coffers, hopefully increasing the likelihood of more content and a profitable game. That seems far preferable to that money going to professional farmers that invariably harm the average player's gameplay experience.

The Agency looks like an interesting, non-cookie-cutter MMO title. I'm not going to throw it aside just because it has RMTs instead of RAMTs (Rapid Asian Micro Transactions)...

[Hemalin]

What do you mean, getting in your way? How is that relevant in any contemporary MMO? This might of been a justified stance in the original EQ, but it has long since been taken care of by the evolution of MMO design.

Quests that could be completed in a couple minutes would take over an hour because some asshole was farming for essence or cloth or whatever. There's also the friendly rogue that would try to dump a bunch of angry skeletons onto you.

Just because you report a "botter" does not make GMs ban them instantly, generally they wait until they have gathered a significant amount of accounts. This ensures that fewer slip through the net or manage to figure out blizzard's exact procedures regarding banning so they can avoid them. That being said, if a GM contacts a "botter" you report and there is someone who responds at the keyboard, there isn't much they can do. Claiming GMs or blizzard don't care about farmers/botters is frankly just silly given how many accounts they've banned regarding them.
Well shucks, they banned several thousand accounts. Too bad the farmers and botters are still running around (getting stuck of trees) and griefing legit players. Complimenting Blizzard for banning a couple accounts while ignoring dozens of others is frankly just silly.

[Gheritt]

Quests that could be completed in a couple minutes would take over an hour because some asshole was farming for essence or cloth or whatever. There's also the friendly rogue that would try to dump a bunch of angry skeletons onto you.

Well shucks, they banned several thousand accounts. Too bad the farmers and botters are still running around (getting stuck of trees) and griefing legit players. Complimenting Blizzard for banning a couple accounts while ignoring dozens of others is frankly just silly.

As awesome as it would be to ban players without any sort of investigation, it's one of these things that requires time and effort to investigate to prove positively that the player is botting. As much proof as "getting stuck in trees" is, GMs and Blizzard require a tad more to go on and reporting bots does help them. It is sad that there isn't some instant effect of people's reporting as posts like yours litter the official forums, but this is the way the system works and it does work it just takes time to make sure there are as few false positives as possible.

[Lexicon]

As awesome as it would be to ban players without any sort of investigation, it's one of these things that requires time and effort to investigate to prove positively that the player is botting. As much proof as "getting stuck in trees" is, GMs and Blizzard require a tad more to go on and reporting bots does help them. It is sad that there isn't some instant effect of people's reporting as posts like yours litter the official forums, but this is the way the system works and it does work it just takes time to make sure there are as few false positives as possible.

Back when I ran my RMT business the only company that took hunting down RMT traders seriously was Gravity the makers of Ragnarok Online. They went so far as to ban my IP from their website to try and make it harder for me to download the client. If I moved money around they would ban my characters in hours. In contrast SWG, EQ, EQ2, WOW, FFXI, EVE etc. never banned any of my accounts.

[Deadend]

As awesome as it would be to ban players without any sort of investigation, it's one of these things that requires time and effort to investigate to prove positively that the player is botting. As much proof as "getting stuck in trees" is, GMs and Blizzard require a tad more to go on and reporting bots does help them. It is sad that there isn't some instant effect of people's reporting as posts like yours litter the official forums, but this is the way the system works and it does work it just takes time to make sure there are as few false positives as possible.

Turbine bans without investigation... just not for botting.

[RMan]

Would you be inclined to play as much if every one could pay a small amount of real world money to achieve what took you weeks of playtime ?
Not a reasonable scenario, I would not work for weeks to achieve something that I could pay a small amount of money for, I think that’s silly and I value my time more than that. This is my point, the approach they have taken allows you to work for an achievement if you choose to, or others to pay for it if they are unwilling to work for it, it’s win/win.

As long as the game is charging massive amounts of gold, a freely traded resource, for stuff I'm just not believing that they want you to earn those things. Why should I consider it better that someone got their epic flying mount because they had a friend with lots of gold, rather than paid $20 for it, or even 'earned it'? Overall, though, if I got upset over the idea of a someone else getting an easier path than I took, I would never play a game like WoW that features a tremendous amount of luck based leveling.
These are the reasons that blizzard is so strongly against goldselling and goldfarming(Blizzard have made significant UI changes recently to help stamp out and report ingame advertising of goldselling sites, some of the gold obviously comes from keylogged players whose inventories have been cleaned out by "hackers")
Again, I do not believe they are against it, what you call significant UI changes, I call, well, not remotely significant :). If they wanted to stop ads, they’d let me set filters for unsolicited chats, there’s no reason that as a lvl 70 character I would ever want to hear from a <10 or 20 level character not in my guild, it’s hard for me to believe they haven’t heard that or thought about it. While I have no doubt they don’t like the server load that comes from bot farmers, and will try to kick players doing it, I still see no evidence that they actually have a problem with people buying gold (having the option of banning accounts for it doesn’t count).
It's easy to forget now, but goldfarmers were responsible for server instability when they were farming/hacking Dire maul runs, they're the reason you now can't open chests in combat and as such WOW players have a right to feel a certain resentment towards those "players" who have such a negative impact on their game.
This is my point, you point to farmers as a culprit for these things, which I imagine is an assumption. There is a FAR greater volume of lifeless WoW players, not farmers, that will readily employ the same techniques a farmer would, since they both want the same benefits. The volume of cumulative time from players willing to farm, I’m assuming, greatly outweighs the time from those trading real money to farm stuff.

[Heretic Machine]

Quests that could be completed in a couple minutes would take over an hour because some asshole was farming for essence or cloth or whatever. There's also the friendly rogue that would try to dump a bunch of angry skeletons onto you.

I don't see what the "friendly rogue" has to do with this discussion. As for the "quests that take over an hour": You do understand that WoW (which is what I assume you're talking about) spawns only a certain number of mobs in a specific area, and monitors how many people are in the area to spawn accordingly. If there are only six or so mobs of a specific type in a certain area, that is because they are set to spawn like that, not because someone is farming them.

Even if what you say were true, do you think that people wouldn't be farming money for themselves? Hell, people do that in City of Heroes (in instanced missions, repeating the same one over and over without completing it) and money isn't even that valuable there.

[UnderHero5]

I don't have a problem with an MMO selling items, as long as I can still earn those items by playing the game. If the only way to get the items is to purchase them, then I'd be upset.

If this game turns out to be decent, I'm still on board. The concept sounds great. I'm just glad it's not another medieval WoW ripoff.

[nixpayn]

Verant was the first on the scene with a GOOD mmo, and Sony was the first on the scene to buy out and RUIN a good mmo, and ever since then they have released steaming pile of shit mmo one after the other. The Agency sounded like a good idea.

Now it sounds like something you dont want your real name on an private account for. bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad.

[Abash Alarmist]

EVE actually allows RMT in-game. They are one of the few people who, in my opinion, do it well. You are able to purchase time cards through authorized retailers and then sell the time cards for in-game cash; for people to use rather than paying the 15/mo cost. All securely done within CCP's website and also allows the m RMT to contribute something bonus to game, creating and fostering an environment that works well for both worlds.

[Hemalin]

I don't see what the "friendly rogue" has to do with this discussion.The "friendly rogue" is unhappy that I am in the same area trying to finish a quest while he is doing is trying to farm for cloth to sell on the auction house. He decides to round up whatever high level baddies are in the area and try to dump the aggro onto me. As for the "quests that take over an hour": You do understand that WoW (which is what I assume you're talking about) spawns only a certain number of mobs in a specific area, and monitors how many people are in the area to spawn accordingly. If there are only six or so mobs of a specific type in a certain area, that is because they are set to spawn like that, not because someone is farming them.
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying the reason the 70 rogue killing mobs 20 levels lower than him faster than my level 50 warrior is because they are set to spawn that way?

[Talon-]

Mmm...real money for fake money. Hooray.

Nothing beats EA having downloadable money for the Godfather game, though. Ah haha...

[Heretic Machine]

The "friendly rogue" is unhappy that I am in the same area trying to finish a quest while he is doing is trying to farm for cloth to sell on the auction house. He decides to round up whatever high level baddies are in the area and try to dump the aggro onto me.

...What does that have to do with this topic?

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying the reason the 70 rogue killing mobs 20 levels lower than him faster than my level 50 warrior is because they are set to spawn that way?

What are you talking about?

[Hemalin]

...What does that have to do with this topic?

What are you talking about?
What do you mean, getting in your way?
...you asked me about gold farmers and I answered.

SOE selling gold will cut down on Chinese gold farmers griefing and interfering with legitimate gamers. The impact to the economy will be minimal compared to all the other problems that plague MMO economies.

[lockwoodx]

Sony Online Entertainment, bringing you the future you didn't want, today.

The best fucking quote of this century.

[Heretic Machine]

...you asked me about gold farmers and I answered.

But you aren't talking about gold farmers, who farm gold and then sell it for real money. You seem to be talking about normal players, accumulating in-game wealth, through normal methods. This would still go on whether or not the publisher sells gold.

On top of that, I never experienced what you're talking about in WoW, and I played up into the Outlands.

[Loganrapp]

I have been asking for a true intelligence/spycraft-based MMO for a long, long time. Since The Agency was announced I knew I had finally found an MMO for me.

After this announcement, I am out of MMOs for the forseeable future.

What a waste.

[Farsight]

If having lots of money trivializes the game, then RMTs will hurt the game... but then the game would suck either way.

WoW has RMTs (they just go to 3rd parties) and they haven't ruined the game. In fact, the part of WoW's gold-selling that bothers most people is the farming, not the selling.

People seem to have gone astray when it comes to MMOs. Everything has become about loot and gold, and having better and more of each than the next guy. Very little conversation actually goes on about the games themselves that doesn't involve lewtz.Most MMOs (WoW included) aren't particularly good games - they feature watered-down gameplay, woeful stories, and often don't even attempt to be engaging or fun. What these MMOs -do- get right is dangling the carrot of loot and minor stat bumps that cause us to come back for more w/o even asking why. If you're playing to have fun, whether some guy in Idaho farmed for a day to get 1000 gold, or bought it for $10, has essentially no effect on your gameplay experience. If you're playing to have better stuff than some guy in Idaho, then it becomes an issue.

For me, if the game is fun, RMTs won't matter. If the game isn't fun, RMTs won't matter.

[Squidbot]

Blizzard doesn't give a shit. I've reported botters multiple times and talked to multiple GMs. They don't do crap.

Not true. I have two good friends who are Blizzzard GMs, and I know that action is taken.



SOE selling gold will cut down on Chinese gold farmers griefing and interfering with legitimate gamers. The impact to the economy will be minimal compared to all the other problems that plague MMO economies.

This is the first time I've heard about a gold farmer griefing or interfering with other gamers. I think you are getting your wires crossed.

[Gheritt]

Again, I do not believe they are against it, what you call significant UI changes, I call, well, not remotely significant :). If they wanted to stop ads, they’d let me set filters for unsolicited chats, there’s no reason that as a lvl 70 character I would ever want to hear from a <10 or 20 level character not in my guild, it’s hard for me to believe they haven’t heard that or thought about it. While I have no doubt they don’t like the server load that comes from bot farmers, and will try to kick players doing it, I still see no evidence that they actually have a problem with people buying gold (having the option of banning accounts for it doesn’t count).


They have thought about limiting whispers from low level players that's why Trial accounts have such strict limits. Limiting "real" accounts would be detrimental to new players experience as there are plenty of good reasons you'd be whispered by a low level player as a level 70. You honestly have never had a friend roll a character on your server and not be in your guild ?

From the http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html


Blizzard does not recognize the transfer of Accounts. You may not purchase, sell, gift or trade any Account, or offer to purchase, sell, gift or trade any Account, and any such attempt shall be null and void. Blizzard owns, has licensed, or otherwise has rights to all of the content that appears in the Program. You agree that you have no right or title in or to any such content, including the virtual goods or currency appearing or originating in the Game, or any other attributes associated with the Account or stored on the Service. Blizzard does not recognize any virtual property transfers executed outside of the Game or the purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything related to the Game. Accordingly, you may not sell items for "real" money or otherwise exchange items for value outside of the Game.


You can say you don't think blizzard are against buying gold all you like, but it's pretty clear they disagree.

EVE actually allows RMT in-game. They are one of the few people who, in my opinion, do it well. You are able to purchase time cards through authorized retailers and then sell the time cards for in-game cash; for people to use rather than paying the 15/mo cost. All securely done within CCP's website and also allows the m RMT to contribute something bonus to game, creating and fostering an environment that works well for both worlds.

I know a few people who play EVE and it does sound like it works within that particular gameworld. EVE is a bit different than most MMOs and that sort of system wouldn't translate well to the more common structure.

That and CCP ain't exactly the pinnacle of respectability so it's not something I'd be happy to support, much like SOE.

[Yeti2005]

Well I WAS excited about this game. A spy MMO sounded pretty unique but now I think I'm going to pass. Hopefully, the bad feedback will get back to SOE and they'll change it (doubtful).

[Squidbot]

Hopefully, the bad feedback will get back to SOE and they'll change it (doubtful).

I wouldn't bet on it, SOE have a habit of listening to their fan base....and then ignoring them completely.

[Goronmon]

I have yet to hear anything remotely convincing about the negative impact of purchasing in-game resources with real-life money. Every argument ends up being about either farmers, who exist regardless of this market, or the hazards of nefarious vendors who install keyloggers or other malware, who exist regardless of this market. http://www.danwei.org/electronic_games/gambling_your_life_away_in_zt.php

[reimomo]

This is the first time I've heard about a gold farmer griefing or interfering with other gamers. I think you are getting your wires crossed.

Seriously? You should get out more.

This market exists already... I think gold selling by the publisher is a good idea, if done well (having the feature enabled on specific servers sounds like a good start). Honestly I hated the idea of gold selling via the publisher when I was jobless and had tons of free time, and when I was making 70k a year I ended up buying gold.

That said, chance that Sony will "do it well" = zero.

[Dragos]

Well I WAS excited about this game. A spy MMO sounded pretty unique but now I think I'm going to pass. Hopefully, the bad feedback will get back to SOE and they'll change it (doubtful).

Why wouldn't you just you know... play on the non RMT servers? Because unless they decide to do this differently than EQ2 for some reason, they're going to have an isolated server that's clearly labeled RMT.

I really don't understand the outrage here either, by moving RMT to select servers, it moves almost the entire gold buying market out of the main servers, which in turn moves the gold mining market out as well, it seemed to work well enough with EQ2, I don't see why it wouldn't work here.

[jpublic]

My only experience with RMT is in CoX mostly, and to a lesser extent EVE. In CoX, we have a specific site trying to exploit RMT in the game, which means I see the following:

1) In-game Email Spam, which has prompted the developers to come up with various restrictions on email.
2) /tell Spam.
3) Farmers running around the high level zones, ruining spawn hunts and PvP events for everyone else.
4) The Auction Market's prices have *skyrocketed*, to that some prices for items are so high the only way one can afford any of them is to either farm Inf for weeks or just drop money on a RMT transaction.

RMT operations, unless handled intelligently (see EVE) ruin any market economies in the game.

Although, let's be honest, game market economies are stupid anyway. Any developer who thinks that it can have a market economy in the game and *not* have to spend significant time controlling/influencing it needs to get a grip and actually watch the real world markets for about a month.

[Squidbot]

Seriously? You should get out more.

This market exists already... I think gold selling by the publisher is a good idea, if done well (having the feature enabled on specific servers sounds like a good start). Honestly I hated the idea of gold selling via the publisher when I was jobless and had tons of free time, and when I was making 70k a year I ended up buying gold.

That said, chance that Sony will "do it well" = zero.

I think you are confusing "being an annoyance to other gamers by farming in the same area" with griefing or deliberate interference. I’ve been playing MMOs a long time, and have never heard of a gold farmer deliberately griefing or directly interfering with another gamer. Yes people don’t like it when an obvious gold farmer is in the same zone as them, they could potentially hinder a player’s progress by killing mobs they need, but it could be argued that any other “legitimate” player farming that area would have the same impact. That is not the same as deliberate interference or griefing.

I don’t like gold sellers, and I am against gold farming where the goal is to sell the profits for real world currency, but I am still unaware of any situation where a gold farmer deliberately griefs another player. Such situations may have occurred, but I don’t think it would be any more of a problem than the legitimate players who go out of their way to hinder others.

Unless you are talking about account hacking, which is a different matter.

[MrCrim]

I'm kind of suprised here. I mean, everyone seems to immediately jump to the assumptino that RMT means buying money in game. RMT could just as easilly be there so they can microtransaction content. As in, "Here's the game, its done complete, and we're going free to play" and then a few weeks later, "Ok, we've completed some additional content, we've got some new avatar clothing options and such and some new gear and Operatives, but since you're free to play we're going to charge you $5.00 for this optional update."

What's the problem with that?

[Squidbot]

I'm kind of suprised here. I mean, everyone seems to immediately jump to the assumptino that RMT means buying money in game. RMT could just as easilly be there so they can microtransaction content. As in, "Here's the game, its done complete, and we're going free to play" and then a few weeks later, "Ok, we've completed some additional content, we've got some new avatar clothing options and such and some new gear and Operatives, but since you're free to play we're going to charge you $5.00 for this optional update."

What's the problem with that?

Well then we wouldn't have anything to argue about :(

[MrCrim]

Well then we wouldn't have anything to argue about :(

Well by all means, continue, simply wanting to insert some sanity, but its obviouslly unwelcome ;)

[Squidbot]

Well by all means, continue, simply wanting to insert some sanity, but its obviouslly unwelcome ;)

We'll have none of that sanity here!
You raise a valid point, but I believe the reason the majority here immediately decided to dig their claws in is due to SOE's track record. Granted, it is all based on assumption.

[MrCrim]

We'll have none of that sanity here!
You raise a valid point, but I believe the reason the majority here immediately decided to dig their claws in is due to SOE's track record. Granted, it is all based on assumption.

Well, keep in mind its SOE yes, but they'll be working directly with SCE this time around who has a very good game track record. Also, even in EQ2 when SOE added the Station Exchange they only made it functional on a limited list of servers, so players could avoid it if they wanted. I think the fact that they're bringing in a third-party specialist to handle the transaction suggests they learned from there mistakes.

[bub64882]

It's funny, I've supported gold selling in games like WoW for a long time. But to have the publisher build it into the game raises huge red flags for me. It just seems too tempting to design money sinks that will encourage players to dump RL $$$ to progress faster. Also, with "gold farmers" getting the money, it's at least being earned. If the publisher is selling the money, it's simply "hit the 'make gold' button", which seems like it will send the economy in game spiralling out of control even worse than it is in other MMO's where unsanctioned RMT happens.

It all comes down to how the game is designed, as others have said. Also as stated before...It's SOE, so...You can be sure that they will fuck it up.

[MrCrim]

It's funny, I've supported gold selling in games like WoW for a long time. But to have the publisher build it into the game raises huge red flags for me. It just seems too tempting to design money sinks that will encourage players to dump RL $$$ to progress faster. Also, with "gold farmers" getting the money, it's at least being earned. If the publisher is selling the money, it's simply "hit the 'make gold' button", which seems like it will send the economy in game spiralling out of control even worse than it is in other MMO's where unsanctioned RMT happens.

Here's what's funnier. If that's actually what Sony does (though I doubt they will) then the economy spiraling out of control and prices skyrocketing is exactly what will happen. Amusingly enough MMO economies function very similarly to real world economies. So somehow gamers recognize instantly that a "make gold" button is horrible for the economy but that doesn't correlate for many people to knowledge that a "Print Dollars" button is bad in real life. I suppose that's why so many countries still have central banks and fiat money.

[HarverdGrad]

I'm for it.

I purchased 500 Gold in WoW over a year ago. I still play WoW off an on, and probably wouldn't, if I didn't have this money. Why? Because I don't want to scrimp and save 4 gold in order to purchase a 14 slot bag to carry my stuff in. Having the additional storage, and the occassional blue weapon has made the game playable for me since I solo most of the time.

I get paid ~$4 for taking a piss at work ($11 if I shit). I'm paid for my superior brain power (I have a 19+ Intelligence). It isn't cost effective for me to spend 12+ hours a day playing WoW just to earn 1 gold, and a couple of green weapons. I can just buy the gold, and use the rest of the time shitting and/or taking a piss.
Thank you

[RMan]

They have thought about limiting whispers from low level players that's why Trial accounts have such strict limits. Limiting "real" accounts would be detrimental to new players experience as there are plenty of good reasons you'd be whispered by a low level player as a level 70. You honestly have never had a friend roll a character on your server and not be in your guild ?
No, I have never had a low level friend I have never heard of that knows of me and tried to contact me (and if I did, it'd have to happen alot to compare to the annoyance of low level whispers). As far as trials, yea, trial accounts always have stuff limited, and I have no doubt Blizzard doesn’t want players flooded ads, but they do seem to want a certain level of awareness. Again, since it is in their best interest for players to have the option to buy gold, I’ll believe they are against it when it’s clear they take ACTION against it.
You can say you don't think blizzard are against buying gold all you like, but it's pretty clear they disagree.
Again, not clear at all. Without massively rose-colored glasses, I don’t see how you can discern anything from that. Their behavior doesn’t support the conclusion they are against gold buying, period. All this type of thing does is shield them from people being able to apply real world value to virtual assets, and give them more options for banning players.