Rumors Debunked: The PS3 GPU Is More Powerful Than The Geforce 7800 [Archive]

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bean19

09-03-2005, 06:04 PM

Gamespot (www.gamespot.com) just debunked a rumor that began with Evil Avatar's fairly reported speculative story (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4958), but was then bastardized by other news media. Rumor # 3 below comes from Gamespot's highly recommended weekly Rumor Control column (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09/02/news_6132546.html).

RUMOR #3: The PlayStation 3's vaunted RSX graphics processor is less powerful that NVIDIA's new 7800GTX graphics card.

Source: See below.

The official story: Sony had not returned requests for comment as of press time.

What we heard: A classic game of telephone was played out on the Web this week. The end point was the widely--and deservedly--read Team Xbox, which ran a story headlined "PlayStation 3 GPU Less Powerful than GeForce 7800." This article linked to a piece over at our friends the Inquirer called "Playstation 3 GPU slightly less powerful than GeForce 7800." This in turned linked to a discussion thread on Evil Avatar called "GeForce 7800 LESS powerful than PS3???" which featured a quote taken from the September issue of PSM. The quote was attributed to an Nvidia spokesperson, who said "There's no doubting that NVIDIA's new 7800GTX is the ultimate in PC graphics technology. The card's G70 GPU, which is more than twice as powerful as two of NVIDIA's previous top-of-the-line 6800 boards, shares a lot of similar workings with the PS3's RSX chip--only it isn't as fast." [Emphasis added.] So the article is saying that the 7800GTX isn't as fast as the RSX, as Evil Avatar pointed out, not the other way around, as the speed-readers at the Inquirer claim--at length. To their credit, the editors at Team Xbox were quick to realize their error--after a phone call from Nvidia--and set the record straight with the follow-up article/mea culpa "PlayStation 3 GPU more powerful than GeForce 7800!"

Bogus or not bogus?: Bogus.

This story is interesting as it shows how media reporting other media's news can sometimes fail in the translation, but I also think that the point should be made that consoles have always utilized their hardware much better than PC's due to being able to engineer their software for uniform hardware. Even if the Geforce 7800 was more powerful than the PS3 GPU, I'm willing to bet that games made for next-gen consoles will out-shine or at least perform as well as PC games for a few years after the console is introduced. Just as they have in the past.

Heretic Machine

09-03-2005, 06:12 PM

I'm willing to bet that games made for next-gen consoles will out-shine or at least perform as well as PC games for a few years

I wouldn't give it more than a single year. Maybe even six months. Not that it really matters...

bean19

09-03-2005, 06:18 PM

I wouldn't give it more than a single year. Maybe even six months. Not that it really matters...

Well, keep in mind that it will take 2 years before anyone but a small percentage of extremely wealthy or hardcore people have 7800's. Most of us won't pay more than $200 for a video card and we do that begrudgingly.

H.Bogard

09-03-2005, 06:32 PM

I wouldn't give it more than a single year. Maybe even six months. Not that it really matters...

I`ll second that

But i still think this is more of marketing bullshit, is NVidia saying that their Video chip, which costs $600 gonna be LESS powerful than a console which might be less than/equal to its price? Motherfuckers deserve some real credit for saying this with a straight face!

Kelegacy

09-03-2005, 06:34 PM

Too bad Gamespot didnt mention that an Evil Avatar forum member named Kelegacy offered to give the entire 50+post thread oral sex if the quote turned out to be true.

Alas, it was not, and I have escaped the agony of lock-jaw.

bapenguin

09-03-2005, 06:51 PM

No surprise here...we remedied this situation the day after.

Dirty Harry

09-03-2005, 06:53 PM

Wonka

09-03-2005, 07:16 PM

Why are we still worrying about which hardware is more powerful again? It just seems to me that this is all becoming rather meaningless. Hell I was basically pretty satisfied with how Xbox games generally looked. And last gen., the Xbox was about TWICE as powerful as the PS2, and YET I could scarcely tell the differences between the two systems when looking at the games. This seemed to hold true even when these games really took the time to try and fully use the Xbox. This time around, things appear to be A LOT more evenhanded, which begs the question: how much of a difference is this stuff really going to make this time? I am betting on: not much. Not just because the hardware is more evenly spec'd this time, but because it would seem that there are fewer and fewer things in games that are going to get better with more and more cpu/gpu/memory. How many triangles and lighting effects do you guys think that you will notice? There is a law of diminshing returns for gaming hardware, and I think that it's already starting to show its effects with last gen... Things can only get more exagerated from here.

It seems to me that ALL of the next gen systems will TRULY have ample hardware. For the 1st time ever, I feel that "the software is all that matters" crowd might be 100% right this time.

Frogleg Special

09-03-2005, 07:22 PM

Slightly off topic, I think ATI deserves a boycott on its R52X lineups because it doesn't even touch the performance of the Xenos and NVidia 7800's.

It's either please get out of the PC video card business or work your ass off better next time instead of being just a MS DirectX bitch.

Draft

09-03-2005, 07:30 PM

bean19

09-03-2005, 07:38 PM

But i still think this is more of marketing bullshit, is NVidia saying that their Video chip, which costs $600 gonna be LESS powerful than a console which might be less than/equal to its price? Motherfuckers deserve some real credit for saying this with a straight face!

Yes. Actually.

Economics of mass production and guaranteed sales. If they can make the same card 3 million times and KNOW it will sell, then they can set up the machinery and pop them out.

With the PC video card, they can't be sure of how many will sell and must trust their analysts. It would be a mistake to create 3 million 7800's because they probably won't sell more than 100K of them at the $600 price point. Sure, they may sell them after 5 years (when they have dropped the price several times to be within range of their customer's ability to buy), but what happens if in 2 years there is a new technology (like Pixel shading) that comes out and all new cards need to have it to play the "new hit game". They'll have to make a budget card that utilizes this technology in order to compete with their competitor's budget card that has the new technology.

Also, keep in mind that they are not the only makers of PC cards, even those using their technology. This further lowers the amount of sales of which they can be assured and raises prices as these 3rd party card developers need their cut after paying Nvidia or ATI for the license.

They also had to make their bid to a corporate client against their competitor. If you are I had several meetings with Nvidia and ATI and they KNEW we would be buying millions of units from one of them, they'd probably cut us a better deal too. :)

bean19

09-03-2005, 07:39 PM

Slightly off topic, there is no R520 yet, so no one knows hwo it performs compared to a 7800.

Yeah. . . what he said.

Please wait for the benchmarks before spouting off wild opinions as fact.

Frogleg Special

09-03-2005, 07:44 PM

ATI (read X360) fanboys came down quickly to defend.

bean19

09-03-2005, 07:47 PM

ATI (read X360) fanboys came down quickly to defend.

Actually, I'm a fan of all the consoles. I want all of them and will get all of them.

What we have a problem with is you saying a card that is not in existence yet and thus has not been tested yet, is a bad card.

You don't know. You can't know.

This ruins your credibility.

Bushido

09-03-2005, 07:54 PM

this just in....fluff

Draft

09-03-2005, 07:58 PM

ATI (read X360) fanboys came down quickly to defend.Post a link to R520 benchmarks. Go on, I'll wait.

XenonCJ

09-03-2005, 08:05 PM

This is all bullshit - basically apples and oranges... and the orange doesn't even exist yet.

Leaving Hope

09-03-2005, 08:22 PM

And last gen., the Xbox was about TWICE as powerful as the PS2, and YET I could scarcely tell the differences between the two systems when looking at the games. This seemed to hold true even when these games really took the time to try and fully use the Xbox.

I have to respectfully disagree with you, Wonka. I have found that PS2 load times are longer, and the drawing distance is shorter. There are some great PS2 games out there, but it pains me to use that system if I can play the same title on XBox.

DeviantBoi

09-03-2005, 08:28 PM

This story is interesting as it shows how media reporting other media's news can sometimes fail in the translation, but I also think that the point should be made that consoles have always utilized their hardware much better than PC's due to being able to engineer their software for uniform hardware.

Are you freaking nuts?! The whole thing started because of EA's loathing of anything Sony-related and were quick to post anything that casts a bad light on the PS3. I wouldn't say that it was bad journalism because, for starters, what you guys do on this site can barely be considered journalism.

bean19

09-03-2005, 08:36 PM

Are you freaking nuts?! The whole thing started because of EA's loathing of anything Sony-related and were quick to post anything that casts a bad light on the PS3. I wouldn't say that it was bad journalism because, for starters, what you guys do on this site can barely be considered journalism.

Aren't you sweet. :)

The news post is one sentence setting up a direct quote. Also, the headline throws the quote into question as it asks if the quote is true.

Also, Ev Av has not demonstrated a loathing of all things Sony. How many stories are there about the recent shortcomings or perceived shortcomings of the X360? How many about the lack of information of the Revolution? I think Ev Av views every system and company with equal support and skepticism.

Lexicon

09-03-2005, 08:42 PM

This story is interesting as it shows how media reporting other media's news can sometimes fail in the translation

That part is kind of amusing since Gamespot couldn't get the whole story correct either (the evil avatar story was originally incorrect as well). On evil avatar at first it was claimed that the RSX wasn't as fast as the 7800 which is were the inquirer got it from. There wasn't a failure in the translation. The translation was correct, however the original claim was incorrect.

bean19

09-03-2005, 08:51 PM

That part is kind of amusing since Gamespot couldn't get the whole story correct either (the evil avatar story was originally incorrect as well). On evil avatar at first it was claimed that the RSX wasn't as fast as the 7800 which is were the inquirer got it from. There wasn't a failure in the translation. The translation was correct, however the original claim was incorrect.

If this is true, then one of the editors should pull this story too (as it would be based off Gamespot's incorrect story). ;)

Irony. . .

Royal Fool

09-03-2005, 08:52 PM

Gamespot's highly recommended weekly Rumor Control column (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09/02/news_6132546.html)

Ewww, no. Their "rumor control" is usually nothing more than a copy-paste of other sites' opinions and, as Lexicon points out, they have often made mistakes in the past. No, I' can't be bothered to go looking through their archives and point out individual examples, and I doubt I'd even remember which stories they were. But I do strongly remember sometimes reading through those things and laughing at factual errors or weak reporting.

Kelegacy

09-03-2005, 09:23 PM

Aren't you sweet. :)

The news post is one sentence setting up a direct quote. Also, the headline throws the quote into question as it asks if the quote is true.

Also, Ev Av has not demonstrated a loathing of all things Sony. How many stories are there about the recent shortcomings or perceived shortcomings of the X360? How many about the lack of information of the Revolution? I think Ev Av views every system and company with equal support and skepticism.

Actually, a good majority of people here do loathe Sony. There is another large group that hates Nintendo, too. But casting its shadow on everything else is the site's adoration of Microsoft. When the shortcomings of the 360 were pointed out, you saw a great many people spin each and every announcement. When even something positive for Sony gets pointed out, the thread is full of Sony demonizers.

That's the way it goes around here. You learn to accept it, even though you know it's totally childish and inane.

score

09-03-2005, 09:38 PM

Glad this was all sorted out but am I the only one who initially read the title of this thread "Rumors Debunked: The PS3 GPU Is More Powerful Than The Geforce 7800" as meaning the PS3 gpu is more powerful than the Geforce 7800 was the rumour that was debunked?

ah. The confusion...

RandomViolence

09-03-2005, 10:29 PM

Actually, a good majority of people here do loathe Sony. There is another large group that hates Nintendo, too. But casting its shadow on everything else is the site's adoration of Microsoft. When the shortcomings of the 360 were pointed out, you saw a great many people spin each and every announcement. When even something positive for Sony gets pointed out, the thread is full of Sony demonizers.

That's the way it goes around here. You learn to accept it, even though you know it's totally childish and inane.

I don't know... when Microsoft announced it's bullshit pricing scheme and the option of a system without the HDD the backlash here was pretty fucking severe. We criticize everyone for missteps, and since that's often what happens we see a lot of the good ol' hating on this site. I will say that Sony has gotten a lot of shit here especially lately, but its' because Ken "Call me God" Kutaragi went on a binge of ridiculousness and the E3 shitstorm. Things are beginning to balance out now that Microsoft is dicking around near the finish line.

We tend to have a short memory here, and the favored tends to be the one who's pissing us off the least at the time. The one releasing a console next would logically fill that role.

Royal Fool

09-03-2005, 11:34 PM

Zanzibar

09-04-2005, 12:51 AM

And last gen., the Xbox was about TWICE as powerful as the PS2, and YET I could scarcely tell the differences between the two systems when looking at the games.

If you're talking about the same game released at the same time on multiple consoles, then you're absolutely right - but that's the developers' fault, not the hardware. They almost always program for the least common denominator.

If you want a true example of a multiplatform game and the differences in hardware, go see 'Wreckless' on PS2 v. Xbox. It came out as a graphical powerhouse on the Xbox, then ported over to PS2 when it was a modest success. Just makes you cry.

MosBen

09-04-2005, 06:11 AM

Yeah, the only reason I read this thread was to see if someone had spotted the confusing headline. Sort of ironic given the substance of the post.

bean19

09-04-2005, 08:32 AM

I don't know... when Microsoft announced it's bullshit pricing scheme and the option of a system without the HDD the backlash here was pretty fucking severe. We criticize everyone for missteps, and since that's often what happens we see a lot of the good ol' hating on this site. I will say that Sony has gotten a lot of shit here especially lately, but its' because Ken "Call me God" Kutaragi went on a binge of ridiculousness and the E3 shitstorm. Things are beginning to balance out now that Microsoft is dicking around near the finish line.

We tend to have a short memory here, and the favored tends to be the one who's pissing us off the least at the time. The one releasing a console next would logically fill that role.

One of the repeated fallacies that are perpetuated by extreme Evil Avatar posters is that people who are moderate get labeled as fanboys much more often than people who have extreme opinions.

Even with people showing the numbers and giving links to their sources, the name-calling and reticence persists.

I don't understand this personally. From where I stand, I want all the systems to be successful and make great games. I want them to compete and for there not to be any system that goes the way of the Dreamcast. Competitors = better games and cheaper prices.

So when Microsoft said they are going with DVD for now because it the memory capacity is sufficient and they prioritized better load times, I look at the numbers to make sure they aren't full of shit, and then make my decision based on that information.

And yet I get called a Microsoft fanboy. . . I'd be one of the loudest screamers if they pulled out of the extra RAM they've promised in the system and I was not pleased with the 2 SKUs for the X360, and said so.

Overall I think we have a lot of cynics here. People who jump on the "Doom!" bus with every negative announcement. . . and I guess by comparison, being of moderate opinion is being a fanboy.

Wonka

09-04-2005, 09:19 AM

I think that people just like to cry "DOOM!", perhaps because it makes them feel empowered and important. Then when someone else comes along and offers reason and information to the contrary, they get angry because the power party is over with. Ad Hominen is an easy way out for these guys. I wouldn't take their hang ups too personally.

As for the people pointing out that Xbox games often looked slightly better than their PS2 contemporaries, I would have to grant you that point. But surely you also noticed that things like draw distance etc. are not generally deal breakers with most people... There were a couple games that developers claimed that they could not make on the PS2, but these were exceptions to the rule. So to clarify my point, yes Xbox games looked generally better, and in a few rare cases a lot better, but mostly it was unimportant stuff (to the average consumer, not to YOU) that was improved.

So if the hardware gave mostly non-critical advantages last time when the hardware was TWICE as powerful, how much of a difference will hardware make this next time when the systems are more equal and even less likely to be short of system resources than last time??? I would STILL bet: not much. What I am trying to say is that I am guessing that the hardware can be pretty much factored out of the equation this time around in terms of guessing which console will be the best one.

B_Money

09-04-2005, 11:47 AM

One of the repeated fallacies that are perpetuated by extreme Evil Avatar posters is that people who are moderate get labeled as fanboys much more often than people who have extreme opinions.

Even with people showing the numbers and giving links to their sources, the name-calling and reticence persists.

I don't understand this personally. From where I stand, I want all the systems to be successful and make great games. I want them to compete and for there not to be any system that goes the way of the Dreamcast. Competitors = better games and cheaper prices.

So when Microsoft said they are going with DVD for now because it the memory capacity is sufficient and they prioritized better load times, I look at the numbers to make sure they aren't full of shit, and then make my decision based on that information.

And yet I get called a Microsoft fanboy. . . I'd be one of the loudest screamers if they pulled out of the extra RAM they've promised in the system and I was not pleased with the 2 SKUs for the X360, and said so.

This is known as an Ad-hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad-hominem) attack, and it's a highly popular logical fallacy. When you make a reasoned, logical statement that contridicts something somebody else says, and they can't respond with logic, the easist way to "dispute" your claim is by attacking you. A popular choice is to call you a fan-boy, cause it's a claim that's difficult to refute. Of course, this works almost anywhere, it's a popular technique for politicans.

Evil Avatar

09-04-2005, 12:34 PM

Are you freaking nuts?! The whole thing started because of EA's loathing of anything Sony-related and were quick to post anything that casts a bad light on the PS3.

I'm not sure what you are smoking, because I've made it no secret that I love Sony. I own three Playstation 2 systems that I play all the time.

It is Dumas.