Mass Effect / Spore 10-day Check Removed

[Varsity]

Via RPS: (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1726)
There has been a lot of discussion in the past few days on how the security requirements for Mass Effect for PC will work. BioWare, a division of EA, wants to let fans know that Mass Effect will not require 10- day periodic re-authentication.

The scheme will now behave similarly to Bioshock's (http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=629059&forum=125&sp=0#5774350#): you need to be online when you install, and will need to call EA/Securom if you want to install on more than three computers (no indication whether that's simultaneously, within a cooloff period, or ever). There's one added caveat of having to be online to install official content/patches/etc. too.

[Serapth]

... what do you want to bet people are still going to bitch?

Frankly I don't think the every 10 days thing was really the deal breaker though, its the requiring an internet connection.

[Yellowman]

What a good boy you are EA, now sit, roll over and get rid of the whole stupid scheme. Use Steam instead maybe.

But this does make me quite happy.

[Ravenlock]

This is excellent news. Well done to everybody who expressed dissatisfaction with the every 10 days nonsense. I'm happy to hear that I can look forward to playing Mass Effect again.

[Serapth]

What a good boy you are EA, now sit, roll over and get rid of the whole stupid scheme. Use Steam instead maybe.

But this does make me quite happy.

I don't mind Steam but I sure as hell don't want one company having so much control over digital distribution! Especially not one like Valve who can be a bit unprofessional at times.

[GrinR]

As usual, I feel bad for the consumer.

[pearle]

Excellent news. Still will not buy it due to the fact I have the xbox 360 version. I was getting a bit worried about Dragon Age, however.

[Smoof]

Sounds good. That means Mass Effect is back on my "Buy" list. I'm looking forward to it.

[AversionFX]

I don't mind Steam but I sure as hell don't want one company having so much control over digital distribution! Especially not one like Valve who can be a bit unprofessional at times.

Whaaaaaaa?

This news story was ridiculous. All of these anti-piracy measures do nothing but completely fucking annoy the people who buy their games. I'm so glad they decided not to go through with it. Although I want to punch them all in the face for thinking it was even remotely a good idea in the first place.

[Wraith]

So what instead? A one-time online authentication (and additional checks whenever you add new downloadable content), and no need to have the disc in the drive after that. Blimey - it’s like being treated with dignity as a customer!

Things do get a bit BioShock with the news that this alternative method means it can be installed on up to three computers, and further authorisation will require a call to EA. However, it does appear that you’ll be able to install it on three separate machines without the disc, which, er, no one point it out.I don't have a problem with this. This sounds like a much better method than a lockout after 10 days.

[Ravenlock]

... what do you want to bet people are still going to bitch?

Frankly I don't think the every 10 days thing was really the deal breaker though, its the requiring an internet connection.

Oh, the 10 day thing was totally the deal breaker for me. As I discussed in the other thread, I'm fine putting in a CD key, and I'm not too offended by their desire to take the key online and verify it. I've got an internet connection, it isn't a huge hassle. And when I download a patch... well, I'm downloading the patch, so clearly I have a net connection then too.

But I am absolutely not okay with a game needing to phone home to its parent company every week and a half to verify that I haven't suddenly become a thief, after already having verified that I wasn't one when I installed the product, and locking me out of what I paid for if it can't reach the mother ship. Especially not for an entirely single-player game.

"Intrusive" DRM is a dicey subject, because each person is going to have their own definition of the term. I think I can probably deal with what it sounds like they're doing now. The previous solution, I was not going to purchase.

[Serapth]

Whaaaaaaa?

This news story was ridiculous. All of these anti-piracy measures do nothing but completely fucking annoy the people who buy their games. I'm so glad they decided not to go through with it. Although I want to punch them all in the face for thinking it was even remotely a good idea in the first place.

What are you whaaaaaaa'ing? You don't find the idea of one uber online distributor a bit scary? Competition is good, right?

[Telefrog]

Well, what do you know? Someone listened to the people that pointed out what a fucking terrible idea the 10-day thing was. Good for EA for actually paying attention.

[Kayden]

Now all u ppl who bitched and thought they could pirate it cause u wanted to screw over EA (you know who u r) go out and buy the damn game now...i have the 360 though i wish i would have waited for the pc

[Shadowstorm]

Now all u ppl who bitched and thought they could pirate it cause u wanted to screw over EA (you know who u r) go out and buy the damn game now...i have the 360 though i wish i would have waited for the pc

lolwut teh fsck? dunn hunndorstun u lulz.

I'm glad they removed this. Kudos to Bioware/EA for paying attention.

[AversionFX]

What are you whaaaaaaa'ing? You don't find the idea of one uber online distributor a bit scary? Competition is good, right?

I was whaaa'ing the "Valve can be unprofessional." What'd they do that was unprofessional?

Well, Steam is amazing. I've had very few problems. But then they aren't the only one doing online distribution. There's direct2drive, and isn't Gametap similar?

Now all u ppl who bitched and thought they could pirate it cause u wanted to screw over EA (you know who u r) go out and buy the damn game now...i have the 360 though i wish i would have waited for the pc

Stop breathing through your mouth.

[Evil Avatar]

Now all u ppl who bitched and thought they could pirate it cause u wanted to screw over EA (you know who u r) go out and buy the damn game now...i have the 360 though i wish i would have waited for the pc

Yea, that is going to happen. The whole point in the first place is that these kinds of things don't stop piracy. People are still going to pirate the game one way or the other.

All anti-piracy does is screw over the legitimate consumer.

[AversionFX]

All anti-piracy does is screw over the legitimate consumer.

Which is sad, really. You'd think they'd get the clue already. Proof is the fact that Sins of a Solar Empire has done so well, despite having no protection to speak of.

Anyone know what kind of money is spent adding security measures to software?

[Varsity]

I think you'll find that he's talking about the people who said they would pirate it solely because of the 10 day check, Evil.

[The_Reckoning]

Great. As one of the people who was planning on acquiring the game by less than expensive means, I can wholeheartedly vouch that Spore is back on my buying list.

Still, I have to say the knowledge that there will be a crack is a comfort, knowing that if EA somehow dies or, more probably, stops supporting the game when the sequel is out and the first no longer sells, I'll definitely still be able to play the game.

[Sasori the Medic]

This is great news. EA is really impressing me lately with how they're taking negative feedback. In a way I'm disappointed because it takes such an uproar to get the point across (like with the new Battlefield game and its DLC) but at least they're beginning to listen. I'm all for reasonable DRM schemes, because anybody with half a brain can see piracy is killing the industry, but the key is not to have it interfere with legit customers.

[tombofsoldier]

That's better. Now I'll think about buying them. I'll still pirate the games if I do, but at least I'd consider buying them.

[Serapth]

I was whaaa'ing the "Valve can be unprofessional." What'd they do that was unprofessional?



Forced patches, planned but unannounced downtime... stuff like that. It may have improved greatly as I dont really use steam much anymore, but they did some pretty unprofessional stuff early on. May have just been rookie mistakes.

[Heretic Machine]

This is more acceptable, but from what I understand, SecureRom had server problems with the PC release of Bioshock. Still, at least I won't have to worry about losing my ability to play my single-player games when the 'net goes out (which is usually when I want to play single-player the most), and that was one of my biggest concerns. There is still the matter of the SecureRom servers eventually going down, but it'll be easy enough to crack whatever software you want to play by that time.

[dbh1973]

Before we start patting EA on the back, was the decision to change the DRM EA's or Bioware's? Because I'd expect Bioware to actually listen to gamers, not EA. Also, is this change confirmed for Spore as well, or just Mass Effect?

That said, this is welcome news to me, but not my bank account. MEPC is back on my buy list.

[Stooby]

Both games just re-entered my "must buy" list.

[reimomo]

... what do you want to bet people are still going to bitch?

Frankly I don't think the every 10 days thing was really the deal breaker though, its the requiring an internet connection.

I thought checking every 10 days was a big deal, and I'm glad they backed off to a check at install.

[PathMaster]

Good to hear. Hopefully other developers and publishers take notice and change their opinion on the matter.

[Paltry]

Arrr matey! Tis some fine booty!

[MelbaToast]

Nice that they listened.

[Suicidal ShiZuru]

EA didnt break something... What the hell is going on here?

[Zander]

Now all u ppl who bitched and thought they could pirate it cause u wanted to screw over EA (you know who u r) go out and buy the damn game now...i have the 360 though i wish i would have waited for the pc

Gamefaqs is thatta way. ------------------> (http://www.gamefaqs.com)

Make more sense going forward please.

[KidNicarus]

I don't love the fact that single player games are requiring an internet connection. I understand these guys have to protect their investment but when a a publisher tells me I can't play their game, that I payed for, unless I do as I'm instructed, it feels a little like facism and I kinda want to tell them to go to hell.

[robotfighter]

What a good boy you are EA, now sit, roll over and get rid of the whole stupid scheme. Use Steam instead maybe.

But this does make me quite happy.

Steam requires you be online pretty often to be able to play, too. I've had times where I was offline and could not play a single thing I had installed until I found a 'net connection to "check in."

[NeoSuplex]

What a good boy you are EA, now sit, roll over and get rid of the whole stupid scheme. Use Steam instead maybe.

But this does make me quite happy.

Right, because it's OK if Steam forces you to be online to play your games... Cause they have um... Well... They uh..

Look, they made Portal, OK?
Plus, I swore fealty to the Cube.

[Bahamut]

I'm surprised EA responded so quickly, and positively at that. They've really shown how receptive to the consumers they've been in the past year or so, and I'm incredibly impressed how the company is trying to turn itself around, after being known for years as the company people love to hate.

Now, make Spore a game everyone says it worth buying, and I'll buy it.

[AversionFX]

I'm surprised EA responded so quickly, and positively at that. They've really shown how receptive to the consumers they've been in the past year or so, and I'm incredibly impressed how the company is trying to turn itself around, after being known for years as the company people love to hate.

Now, make Spore a game everyone says it worth buying, and I'll buy it.

They realized that, by making people hate them less, people make be inclined to buy their software.

[Evil Avatar]

I hate to be the voice of reason, but no where does it say that Spore will not use the 10-day check.

Just because they caved in for Mass Effect doesn't mean that they will do the same for Spore.

Edit: Nevermind. I found it.

[werthog42]

I still don't understand what the big deal is. Everyone here obviously has an internet connection. If you respond to me, your argument is invalid!

[Wilkz07]

what ever happened to needed the disc in the tray to play like the Battlefield series. Crap like that (even though its removed) is part of the reason why i don't play pc games any more. Why should I have to call support line at 2am because I want to play Age of Empires 3 only to get some agent in Bangeldesh who says i need to call back during regular business hours to reactivate a game I own.

viva la console!

[Evil Avatar]

I still don't understand what the big deal is. Everyone here obviously has an internet connection. If you respond to me, your argument is invalid!

And how does this help me with my laptop which is:

A.) faster than my PC
B.) seldom or never hooked up to the internet

See the problem yet, Chumpo?

[nonchalance]

So now it's the same as Steam; more restrictive than I'd like, but not bad enough for me to boycott.

Yay! I can look forward to ME again!

[Wraith]

I still don't understand what the big deal is. Everyone here obviously has an internet connection. If you respond to me, your argument is invalid!Even if someone's reading your reply right now, it doesn't necessarily mean they have an internet connection 24/7. Someone may be using dialup. Someone may be using a laptop that they take with them on the road or to school every day or on vacation. Someone using a laptop, even if they have an available connection, may want to have their WiFi turned off to save battery power when they play.

[H.Bogard]

Right, because it's OK if Steam forces you to be online to play your games... Cause they have um... Well... They uh..

Look, they made Portal, OK?
Plus, I swore fealty to the Cube.

Ever tried offline mode? Its great.

[Phanto]

Lol I knew this was going to be remove but my guess at that time was less than a week, this news just beat my prediction :).

[BlackPete]

I still don't understand what the big deal is. Everyone here obviously has an internet connection. If you respond to me, your argument is invalid!

Go on vacation for 2 weeks. Oops, your game's been disabled. Sorry.

Wanna bring your laptop with you to Bali so you can have a couple of rounds before bedtime? You're outta luck after the 6th to 9th day. Sorry.

I also find it amusing that people are complimenting them for rolling back the DRM scheme to Bioshock-level DRM. I traded my PC version of Bioshock for the 360 version precisely because of the DRM and the headaches it was giving me.

[thomasc]

And how does this help me with my laptop which is:

A.) faster than my PC
B.) seldom or never hooked up to the internet

See the problem yet, Chumpo?

Your laptop is faster than your PC?

[Jambe]

What would happen if more groups released DRM-free games like SoaSE? Would the industry collapse overnight? Fire and brimstone? Somehow I doubt it. That people tolerate the notion of DRM offends my sensibilities.

"Buy our stuff, but don't worry if we monitor you to make sure you're not a criminal."

"OK."

[colonel 32dll]

... and the same argument rages on...
...and on...

[dbh1973]

I still don't understand what the big deal is. Everyone here obviously has an internet connection. If you respond to me, your argument is invalid!
Oh, by the way, you're being stationed in Iraq for 6 months. Good luck with that 10-day recurring validation!;)

[Savok]

Remove the pointless need to have the disc in the drive and I'll be completely happy.

At any rate, Spore is back on my preorder list.

[Evil Avatar]

Your laptop is faster than your PC?

Honestly, I have spent so little time worrying about PC gaming for the last two years that I have no way to know.

My PC is a single core AMD Athlon 64 4000+ 2.4 Ghz running at 2.7 Ghz.
My new laptop is an Intel Core 2 Duo 1.83 Ghz.

That sounds faster to me. It seems to run Dawn of War pretty good.

[HotCod]

To be fair i am about to buy a new laptop (given my main pc just junked yet another har drive) which is faster has 3 times the ram and double the video card memory... so when i get that it will be very much faster than any other PC in the house... which should be enough to run both these games are good settings. So having a much more powerful laptop is not a odd thing these days.

But i have to say there is very little chance that i'll be installing the games anywhere i could not get online... so while i may not like it the simple fact is i doubt its going to be to bad

[Varsity]

Beware UE3 and laptops. Mass Effect will run like crap even with more than enough raw power thrown at it if Bioshock and UT3 are anything to go by.

[gorillaman]

Not good enough. I frankly find it insolent, the idea that my ability to use my own property should rest on somebody else's approval.

[HotCod]

Beware UE3 and laptops. Mass Effect will run like crap even with more than enough raw power thrown at it if Bioshock and UT3 are anything to go by.

the bench marks i've been seeing for the kind of system i'm getting seem to work out ok, not top detial or rez on somthing like crysis but i should be able to run it.

What i think i'm getting is
core duo 2.40ghz
3gb sdram
GeForce Go 8600M GT 256MB

While the card isn't the best, in fact it can be out preformed by some of the non dx10 cards, its the only choice in the system i want. For the stuff i'm doing at uni i need it to be rather hefty, lots of video editing and encoding and high rez photo stuff so its not cost me a lot extra to make it game worthy.

In fact i've been suprised by just how effective lap top have gotten for gaming. Still isn't going to beat a tower and i may not get as much profomaces out of it but it should be enough to run mass effect given its specs.

[Narcissus]

I think EA will have earned back some sales with this move, and I hope they realise it.

[H.Bogard]

So what's this I'm hearing about the servers only authenticating only thrice for each copy? Does that mean I have to throw the game away and buy again after three Windows re-installs?

[Bahamut]

I still don't understand what the big deal is. Everyone here obviously has an internet connection. If you respond to me, your argument is invalid!

You've obviously never had internet go down for a month.

[Wma]

So what's this I'm hearing about the servers only authenticating only thrice for each copy? Does that mean I have to throw the game away and buy again after three Windows re-installs?

It seems to be somewhat similar to Windows system - being based on your hardware config. If you switch out a vid card, Windows won't need reactivaction, but if you change the motherboard, or a bunch of other small hardware you may need to give them a call to get Windows activated again.
Just a regular reinstall with he same hardware config is fine though.

On the boards, it was said that you can reinstall it as many times as you want without using another one of the activations unless there are hardware changes that go beyond a certain point.

Hopefully they will eventually have some sort of webform to manually disable activations to free them up in case of a large upgrade or whatever.

[H.Bogard]

It seems to be somewhat similar to Windows system - being based on your hardware config. If you switch out a vid card, Windows won't need reactivaction, but if you change the motherboard, or a bunch of other small hardware you may need to give them a call to get Windows activated again.
Just a regular reinstall with he same hardware config is fine though.

On the boards, it was said that you can reinstall it as many times as you want without using another one of the activations unless there are hardware changes that go beyond a certain point.

Hopefully they will eventually have some sort of webform to manually disable activations to free them up in case of a large upgrade or whatever.

Not that it matters, there'll be no-cd cracks in two or three days anyway. Makes you wonder why they spend so much money lincensing this tech and staining PR for it.

[Wma]

Not that it matters, there'll be no-cd cracks in two or three days anyway. Makes you wonder why they spend so much money lincensing this tech and staining PR for it.

There will be no DVD required in the drive to play anyway, and no checks after install needed unless there is an update.

It actually seems like a pretty good system. Activate once online in place of having the CD in the drive. Can run it on 3 computers at once ... again with no CD needed. It does check the key to let you download updates, but you are online at the time anyway.

So long as they have the server capacity to handle the load(which they say they do), it sounds like a painless system for people who buy the game.

[lockwoodx]

... what do you want to bet people are still going to bitch?

Frankly I don't think the every 10 days thing was really the deal breaker though, its the requiring an internet connection.

I'll be happy to bitch!!

"Excuse me may I please have permission to install and play the game I paid your company for?" "No?, Some one is allready using that key? But I just got home from the store wtf!!"

[kefka95]

Steam requires you be online pretty often to be able to play, too. I've had times where I was offline and could not play a single thing I had installed until I found a 'net connection to "check in."

I've been using Steam for years and spent a lot of time in offline mode, and this has never happened.

Right, because it's OK if Steam forces you to be online to play your games... Cause they have um... Well... They uh..

Look, they made Portal, OK?

Perhaps you should try actually using Steam sometime.

[Savok]

There will be no DVD required in the drive to play anyway, and no checks after install needed unless there is an update.
Well hot damn.

The only way to improve this system would be for activations to recharge, like one every 6 months or something. Unless they do that already as well?

[Varsity]

Not good enough. I frankly find it insolent, the idea that my ability to use my own property should rest on somebody else's approval.

It is not your property. It is EA's, and they decide to give the public access to it in exchange for money at their own discretion.

Feel free to dislike DRM schemes, but at least realise that no matter how draconian they are the consumer is still the one being done a favour.

[aries100]

I can't be bothered to dig up the quote, but Derek French did say on the Bioware forums that the odds that a keygen would generate the exact same key would like 1 to 3 billion.

I also like that it uses the hardware identification, not the user accounts, for activation.
Derek French has also said that the Securom is a wrap around the executable and it will run when you run MassEffect.exe - i.e. the game, MEPC. This is clearly different from Bioshock's DRM scheme.

I have only needed to re-activate my windows once for a hardware change and that was in January 2007 when I had to install a second harddrive because of a crash. And I have installed GB of rams and a videocard or two without having to re-activate windows.
I hope this DRM scheme for MEPC will be similar or the same as the one windows uses.

As for Bioware making this 10 day re-authentication thing go away, my take on this is that most people at Bioware didn't like this, but of course couldn't say so - due to
- ahem- -cough - well - you figure it out...

I also strongly suspect that the military helped get rid of this whole 10 day activation thing. I never knew that so many military people would play MEPC - but it makes sense, I think. A soldier would play a tactical shooter with rpg content or a an rpg with tactical shooter element; ironic wouldn't you agree, it would be, if a soldier couldn't play a game
which features a soldier for a main character?

[Ravenlock]

It is not your property. It is EA's, and they decide to give the public access to it in exchange for money at their own discretion.

Feel free to dislike DRM schemes, but at least realise that no matter how draconian they are the consumer is still the one being done a favour.

A favor? That's an interesting way of looking at it. Traditionally, with media - and by "traditionally" here I'm talking about since the invention of the printing press in the 1400's - that "access" has involved an irreversible transfer of property which then legitimately belongs to the consumer. Or are you of the opinion that it would be okay for Stephen King's publisher to come into your house and tear up your copy of The Shining because they suspect you stole it or lent it to too many people?

Just because entertainment companies from the RIAA to the MPAA to EA like to say they own entertainment and are just leasing it to you on their terms, this is not some age-old truth. For hundreds of years the balance was very much in the other direction, across movies, music, and (at the beginning) film and games.

Obviously, if we as consumers agree to a particular set of rules - if, for example, you agreed that Stephen King's publisher could come tear up your books, or if we agree that EA can shut off our game if it can't phone home every 10 days - well then, we've agreed to it and we have to deal with it. But that by no means implies that they are justified in proposing such an arrangement, or that we should accept it.

[Varsity]

Those rules are all made irrelevant by digital media. It's a whole new ball game when an infinite number of perfect duplicates can be freely made by anyone.

[Ravenlock]

Whatever the new set of "rules" is going to be, it needs to be arrived at cooperatively. The producers of media do not (or at least should not) have carte blanche to state whatever absurd hoops they want us to jump through, and then wait for us to get in line. As has been demonstrated to some degree here, the consumers can simply refuse to purchase.

At the end of the day, if we do not give them our money, they go out of business, no matter how good or desirable their product may be. I just find it odd that you think they're doing you or anyone a "favor" by "allowing" you to consume the entertainment they produce. As an artist myself, I've always viewed that relationship as quite the opposite. The audience is doing the artist a favor by showing up with their money. Should the artist stop providing that entertainment through a means people are willing to pay for, the artist had better have alternate employment lined up.

[Ravenlock]

I meant to add another line to the first paragraph - should have read: "As has been demonstrated to some degree here, the consumers can simply refuse to purchase. To some degree, consumers are always going to view what they purchase as their property, and won't buy a product without some acknowledgment of that in place."

I'm still wondering where the heck our edit button went. Sigh.

[Varsity]

I still have my edit button. :s

The producers of media do not (or at least should not) have carte blanche to state whatever absurd hoops they want us to jump through, and then wait for us to get in line. As has been demonstrated to some degree here, the consumers can simply refuse to purchase.

I don't disagree with that at all.

As an artist myself, I've always viewed that relationship as quite the opposite. The audience is doing the artist a favor by showing up with their money.

That's great, but EA hold a very different view.

[Kem0sabe]

Like Bioshock it will be cracked within the first 10 days. *shrug*

[Evil Avatar]

Obviously, if we as consumers agree to a particular set of rules - if, for example, you agreed that Stephen King's publisher could come tear up your books, or if we agree that EA can shut off our game if it can't phone home every 10 days - well then, we've agreed to it and we have to deal with it. But that by no means implies that they are justified in proposing such an arrangement, or that we should accept it.

This is where it gets tricky. Is that EULA -- in full -- going to be printed on the back of the box? Because in general when you purchase something it might say "Internet connection required" but that is a far cry from "If you don't log in every 10 days to re-validate your CD Key then your game isn't going to work." and consumers don't get the option to say "No I don't agree to that." at the time of purchase.

IMHO, I don't see any EULA as legally binding. I didn't sign anything saying that I agreed to it. And even if you must click "Yes" to install the game, who is to say that by clicking "Yes" I agreed to it? Every time I click "Yes" I could be saying out loud, "No, I don't agree to your terms but if I don't click Yes I can't play the game so I'm forced to click Yes."

I think at some point in the future you are going to see consumer groups really hard going after companies for including EULA's in their software and not including the details of the EULA on the box or getting some kind of agreement for from you in writing.

[Ravenlock]

As an artist myself, I've always viewed that relationship as quite the opposite. The audience is doing the artist a favor by showing up with their money.
That's great, but EA hold a very different view.

Well yes, obviously they do. What I said I found odd was that you - presumably as a consumer - seem to agree with them on that issue, as you were advocating their position.

[nonchalance]

It is not your property. It is EA's, and they decide to give the public access to it in exchange for money at their own discretion.

Feel free to dislike DRM schemes, but at least realise that no matter how draconian they are the consumer is still the one being done a favour.

Fuck off. They exist because of the consumer, and being granted the ability to make games for a living is the 'favour' the consumer gives to them.

[nonchalance]

Also: http://www.locusmag.com/Features/2008/05/cory-doctorow-think-like-dandelion.html

In short, free reproduction should not mean "Fuck, we need to protect things differently", but rather "Well, now we need to find another way of making money off this".

[Headcase]

Good work. I was going to pirate Spore after this first announcement but not anymore.

[Azrikam]

Feel free to dislike DRM schemes, but at least realise that no matter how draconian they are the consumer is still the one being done a favour.

Wow, I hope you don't run a business. That's some pretty ignorant stuff right there.

[Benaiah]

You see ever since Steam first came out with the idea of needing to be online and fully patched up before you could play the single player campaign, I have been totally against DRM. Now games that make you have the CD/DVD in the drive at all times and secure rom that makes you install a root level (trojan) before you can even read the disk violates everything I learned about computer security.

The pirates don't have to worry about this shit, and it only punishes the legitimate consumers. Bioshock was still cracked in like 5 days, and every PC user had to pay part of the millions of dollars that they wasted trying to secure it from the pirates. All of the PC users were subjected to Draconian DRM requirements requiring people to waste their time and money to call a helpdesk so they could re-install their legally purchased software.

The further the publishers push their own consumers (see RIAA suing everyone) by taking away value from their products, the more likely they are to alienate them. When they piss off the nerds, we will actively discourage the adoption of a product (see Vista, Bioshock) and then help our friends pirate games.

Blizzard has got it right in the past and is starting to get it right again. The latest warcraft 3 patch lo longer requires the CD in the drive to play. Star Craft lets you “Spawn” copies of the game, to allow your friends to legally sample it on LAN. Then if they like it they will buy their own copy. WoW never requires you to have the disk in the drive to play.

[Savok]

[rant]
You see ever since Steam first came out with the idea of needing to be online and fully patched up before you could play the single player campaign
Only that's wrong.

WoW never requires you to have the disk in the drive to play.
I've yet to see a MMOG that does.

[MacD]

To all the people who said "you whiny bitches! Shut up and don't whine!" in the original thread: our 'whining' worked....calling out unreasonable practices can be effective every once in a while.

[Furtive]

I also find it amusing that people are complimenting them for rolling back the DRM scheme to Bioshock-level DRM. I traded my PC version of Bioshock for the 360 version precisely because of the DRM and the headaches it was giving me.

Same here Pete. Bioshock(PC) is still on my boycott list. It's sad that a company can throw out a super outrageous DRM scheme and then retract it to regular levels of outrageous and the masses start thanking them for it.

[Savok]

Same here Pete. Bioshock(PC) is still on my boycott list. It's sad that a company can throw out a super outrageous DRM scheme and then retract it to regular levels of outrageous and the masses start thanking them for it.
We're PC gamers, we chew on razor blades for fun.

[Bahamut]

I also find it amusing that people are complimenting them for rolling back the DRM scheme to Bioshock-level DRM. I traded my PC version of Bioshock for the 360 version precisely because of the DRM and the headaches it was giving me.

Do your research - this version of SecuROM isn't nearly as intrusive as Bioshock's.

[Furtive]

Do your research - this version of SecuROM isn't nearly as intrusive as Bioshock's.

Any software that doesn't let me re-install my games as often as I need to is too intrusive. I'm not a huge Steam fan but at least VALVe lets me painlessly re-install after a system re-format.

[Bahamut]

Any software that doesn't let me re-install my games as often as I need to is too intrusive. I'm not a huge Steam fan but at least VALVe lets me painlessly re-install after a system re-format.

I agree, but if I recall correctly, that's not a standard feature in SecuROM, but a variant that they went with for Bioshock. SecuROM still sucks for installing itself on computers, but Take Two went beyond the call of suckage with that installation limitation.

[Hemalin]

Do your research - this version of SecuROM isn't nearly as intrusive as Bioshock's.

Isn't it pretty much the same? You can install the game on three different hardware configurations. After that you need to call up EA.

[Bahamut]

Isn't it pretty much the same? You can install the game on three different hardware configurations. After that you need to call up EA.

If that's the case then I need to do my own research ha (more like just reading the first post completely). In that case, then I still won't be buying the game.

You guys are right, carry on.