Spore to Use SecuROM Technology, Require Re-Check After 10 Days Inactivity

[tombofsoldier]

Here (http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=52547#itemanchor_16894417)

If customers do not come online after ten days, the game will cease to function. "After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run," added French.

The check is run when users activate the game's executable file, with the first re-check coming within "5 days remaining in the 10 day window."

According to French, Maxis' Spore will also make use of the same scheme... (emphasis mine - fitbabits)

...and really bad eggs...

[Orz]

If I do wind up buying this game, I fully expect to leave the disc in the case and install the pirated version without this crap.

Anyone at all out there think this is not insane?

[bKangy]

You have to be joking, this is exactly the kind of game I take on vacation with me and just play on the plane or something like that. How the fuck do I get online in the desert you stupid fucks.

[OSX]

I know people who still play SimCity 2000 on their PC's. Watch Maxis take the DRM servers offline after the game stops selling (like MS did with MSN Music) and everyone is screwed.

DRM is always poorly thought out.

[Wackman3000]

And they wonder why people resort to using cracks and pirated copies?

I swear the more they try to copy protect stuff, the bigger of a hole they dig themselves into.

[Wraith]

Lame.

I mean, it likely won't have much affect on me (providing it allows for installation on a new system, when it's time for an upgrade), but still lame.

[Vyzov]

Well, fuck this game. It was going to be a must buy, I don't think I want to even pirate it anymore.

[Wackman3000]

And they wonder why people resort to using cracks and pirated copies?

I swear the more they try to copy protect stuff, the bigger the problem gets.

[Amalor]

You have to be joking, this is exactly the kind of game I take on vacation with me and just play on the plane or something like that. How the fuck do I get online in the desert you stupid fucks.

Its not that hard really. Everyone will simply download a bit torrent of the game with free crack and play it. Save your cash for developers who respect you as a customer and buy their games. No reason to get mad and all.

[Sandman]

Lame. I'll just wait on the 360 version.

[bKangy]

Its not that hard really. Everyone will simply download a bit torrent of the game with free crack and play it. Save your cash for developers who respect you as a customer and buy their games. No reason to get mad and all.

I am pretty pissed off though. They've been hyping it for like 2 years and now I don't know if I'll bother getting it or not. It's annoying to say the least.

[maverick106]

wtf, Spore = needy girlfriend?

"You never take me online anymore, I quit! :::pout pout:::"

[Stooby]

Well, I will probably still buy the game, but I will also be jumping on that pre-release torrent when it shows up so I can mount the image and use the crack to play the game. So, congrats on providing a bit more bandwidth on the pirate version of Spore guys.

[Vyzov]

Its not that hard really. Everyone will simply download a bit torrent of the game with free crack and play it. Save your cash for developers who respect you as a customer and buy their games. No reason to get mad and all.

Yes there is, with a cracked version you will miss out on a HUGE portion of this game. All the online interaction will (most likely) be unavailable.

[Valar Morghulis]

EA just doesn't get it. They are in an arms race with people who view the race as fun they have been challenged to participate in, and not as work. I just can't get over how awesome Sins of a Solar Empire is, they put man-hours into the game, not into DRM.

[ÜberJumper]

PC Developers and Publishers have every right to attempt to secure their games from piracy.

Sadly, it (copy protection) causes more problems for legitimate purchasers than it does for pirates.

I support developers who try and find new ways to prevent piracy. Now if this method requires online validation of the product, and then it's good for 10 day periods with NO active copy protection (IE: you don't need a disk in the drive, or don't need to login), then I'll consider this a step in the right direction.

If the product requires online validation, OR a disc in the drive after that 10 day period expires, I'm ok with that as well.

[Wraith]

And can someone explain the justification for a game phoning home a minimum of every ten days to prevent piracy, rather than just once during/after install? (It sounds like it runs a check every time you launch the game and it can connect, but it'll let you play up to 10 days if it doesn't connect...)

[JRR006]

Forget Spore, then. I don't pirate games. That's morals, there, and for pirates this won't matter anyway. I don't need their bullshit SecuROM surveillance.

[Lord_Singing_Whale]

And can someone explain the justification for a game phoning home a minimum of every ten days to prevent piracy, rather than just once during/after install? (It sounds like it runs a check every time you launch the game and it can connect, but it'll let you play up to 10 days if it doesn't connect...)

The full story is about Mass Effect, and that it will also use this copy protection on PC. I'm fairly sure it will just phone home once, at the end of 10 days, to ensure that in that time, your CD-Key hasn't been proven as pirated yet.

[Rakael]

Welp, fuck Spore.

[Drek]

Dammit, and I had such high hopes for this game too. Oh well, luckily there's lots of other games out there to play!

[Delenda]

Yes there is, with a cracked version you will miss out on a HUGE portion of this game. All the online interaction will (most likely) be unavailable.

So to get the most out of the game, you'll need to be online, in which case activation won't be an issue anyway?

I understand the righteous indignation, but seriously, online activation isn't some crippling new big-brother measure thought up purely to piss you off. Steam basically revolves around the principle, and people have no problem praising that as the savior of PC gaming, and that screws over paying customers too when things go wrong.

[Everblight]

Lame. I'll just wait on the 360 version.

My thoughts exactly. I'd like to try this but there's no way I'll get the PC version.

[JoyOfJoys]

If they don't fucking wake up and change things, this could be a Deal/Game/Heart breaker for me. :(
Is it me or are the only people who actually have to deal with such DRM bullshit those who acquire legit versions of a game?

[LongStepMantis]

Yea, good move.

Enjoy your reduced sales guys. No seriously, I'd say they just shot themselves in the foot, but it's more like they blew their entire fucking leg off.

[51|RandoM]

If the game is fun, I'll play it.

When I get angry about piracy I don't blame the companies trying to protect their products, I blame the thieves who caused the problem in the first place. Call me crazy. :)

I do get a kick out of you guys thinking that a significant portion of the market will decide to not buy the game because of DRM. I don't believe a significant portion of the market will even know about the DRM.

[Vyzov]

So to get the most out of the game, you'll need to be online, in which case activation won't be an issue anyway?

I understand the righteous indignation, but seriously, online activation isn't some crippling new big-brother measure thought up purely to piss you off. Steam basically revolves around the principle, and people have no problem praising that as the savior of PC gaming, and that screws over paying customers too when things go wrong.

first re-check

That is the problem right there. If it was only one re-check, I'd be fine with it. But multiple re-checks?

[BlackPete]

When I get angry about piracy I don't blame the companies trying to protect their products, I blame the thieves who caused the problem in the first place. Call me crazy. :)

Would you be fine with me coming over to glue every window and door in your place shut? That way, thieves won't be able to get in and out. You won't either, but hey that's just the thieves fault for making this necessary in the first place, right? :)

[Variable Gear]

Great job EA. You guys never cease to amaze me.

[Tricky Thumb]

So to get the most out of the game, you'll need to be online, in which case activation won't be an issue anyway?

I understand the righteous indignation, but seriously, online activation isn't some crippling new big-brother measure thought up purely to piss you off. Steam basically revolves around the principle, and people have no problem praising that as the savior of PC gaming, and that screws over paying customers too when things go wrong.

Except that after you buy a game on Steam, you can play in an offline mode if the internet isn't available to you. Also, Steam doesn't require users to re-validate their games every ten days.

[Android8675]

How the fuck do I get online in the desert you stupid fucks.

After you register you don't have to reactivate for a while, and you don't seem like the kindda guy who'd be without Internet for more than a day or so.

Spore looks to have a lot of Internet features so you may not want to be offline that often.

Sheesh.

[midrael]

I'm all for developers and publishers doing what they can to prevent piracy. However, this method of DRM just convinced me not to purchase this game. This is the sort of DRM that winds up harming the legal consumer rather than the pirate. Annoying, because I was looking forward to this game too. I won't support draconian validation policies that I don't agree with though.

[HotCod]

just put it on steam and have done with it :D

[Delenda]

That is the problem right there. If it was only one re-check, I'd be fine with it. But multiple re-checks?

I think you may be misunderstanding how it works, or I am. Reading the Bioware post that was posted earlier:

After the first activation, SecuROM requires that it re-check with the server within ten days (in case the CD Key has become public/warez'd and gets banned). Just so that the 10 day thing doesn't become abrupt, SecuROM tries its first re-check with 5 days remaining in the 10 day window. If it can't contact the server before the 10 days are up, nothing bad happens and the game still runs. After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run.

So as far as I can gather, it checks once after 5 days, and it it works, that's it. If not, it'll check again after 10 days. It's sounds like there's only ever 1 required activation.

I agree though, if it were more, I'd be pissed.

[Delenda]

Except that after you buy a game on Steam, you can play in an offline mode if the internet isn't available to you. Also, Steam doesn't require users to re-validate their games every ten days.

I can't seem to edit my above post for some reason, but it sounds like you only need to activate it once, which is basically the same as Steam. I think the fileshack article is just badly worded, and people prefer to think the worst when they think DRM.

[CES]

I didnt realise a technical producer of one company had authority to speak about another companis business plans. Until a member of the Spore team says so, take it with a grain of salt.

[Vyzov]

I think you may be misunderstanding how it works, or I am. Reading the Bioware post that was posted earlier:

So as far as I can gather, it checks once after 5 days, and it it works, that's it. If not, it'll check again after 10 days. It's sounds like there's only ever 1 required activation.

I agree though, if it were more, I'd be pissed.

You're wrong.

Q: But constant checks for as long as I own and play the game, every 10 days? ...What happens if I don't play for 11 days and the moment I want to play my connection is down? Are you saying I'm not going to be able to play my perfectly legitimate purchased copy of the game, even the retail version, until I get permission?

A: That is correct. And I would suggest that you contact EA Support the moment this happens (once you get your internet back) to report the issue. If there are people having problems with the system as designed, then Support needs to hear about it so they can help us evaluate it for the next game title.

[51|RandoM]

Would you be fine with me coming over to glue every window and door in your place shut? That way, thieves won't be able to get in and out. You won't either, but hey that's just the thieves fault for making this necessary in the first place, right? :)

Your analogy is broken.

You would be gluing the windows shut to protect my rights, not yours.

Try again. Then again, why bother? If you can't convince me with the facts of the situation, why on earth would an analogy be effective?

[CES]

I miss the edit button, stupid typos.

[SuicideKing]

Looks like my Spore experience will be limited to the demo.

[Telefrog]

The full story is about Mass Effect, and that it will also use this copy protection on PC. I'm fairly sure it will just phone home once, at the end of 10 days, to ensure that in that time, your CD-Key hasn't been proven as pirated yet.

Wrong. It's been clarified by Derek French in the official Mass Effect forum that it will phone home EVERY ten days you run the executable.

Forever.

[PopoWRX]

Read through the massive thread on it. Wish EA would learn from Stardock but apparently they are big SecuROM backers and Bioware games have been using some form of SecuROM since Neverwinter Nights.

Not requiring a disc to be in drive for play is great but the cd key checks every 10 days....Spore will probably have a massive casual audience so I see plenty, PLENTY of potential for problems once it is released.

While I love Bioware and would certainly buy Dragon Age anyway (which would probably use this form of protection due to EA), maybe the MEPC/Spore experience will be so detrimental to EA that they scrap the system altogether.

[Banacek]

When I get angry about piracy I don't blame the companies trying to protect their products, I blame the thieves who caused the problem in the first place. Call me crazy. :)

Get ready for a lot of heat. People (for some strange reason) refuse to give pirates the shit-storm they deserve around here. But then they want to ban Gamestop for selling used games because it hurts the developers. The logic baffles me sometimes.

[bKangy]

After you register you don't have to reactivate for a while, and you don't seem like the kindda guy who'd be without Internet for more than a day or so.

Spore looks to have a lot of Internet features so you may not want to be offline that often.

Sheesh.

My point was about vacation though, it just seems like a nice casualish game I can take with me to some bumfuck part of the world and still enjoy myself without having to commit hours to it.

[Zander]

This will do nothing to stop people from pirating the game and only cause headaches for those who buy it.

Again.

[UttiniDaKilrJawa]

So, what happens to a legitimate key holder if their number pops up in some pirates Key generator? How will the server know which is real or warezd? Will it disable the warezd key correctly or will it just make the entire key invalid for all, legit user included?

[lockwoodx]

So. No interet connection = No Spore? Fuck them and EA then.

[bean19]

1. This isn't a big deal to me as long as it doesn't take long. I certainly don't mind buying games through Steam and it authenticates every time I play.

2. If it is a bother, then I know there are many pirates who will be making NoCD workarounds that are very easy to install.

3. Look at #2, I might use a pirate tool to avoid harassment from the game maker for a game I will purchase legally. This will not effectively deter pirates.

[BlackPete]

Your analogy is broken.

You would be gluing the windows shut to protect my rights, not yours.

Try again. Then again, why bother? If you can't convince me with the facts of the situation, why on earth would an analogy be effective?

I'd be violating your rights if I locked you out of your own house.

And that's basically what it boils down to -- how on earth do you think this is going to deter pirates from anything? They'll just continue to play their cracked copies while legit customers are the ones jumping through the support hurdles.

[Snarboo]

So, what happens to a legitimate key holder if their number pops up in some pirates Key generator? How will the server know which is real or warezd? Will it disable the warezd key correctly or will it just make the entire key invalid for all, legit user included? That's exactly what I'm wondering. There have been cases of pirates opening copies to write down the keys, too. This looks like a big headache in the making.

[MacD]

I didnt realise a technical producer of one company had authority to speak about another companis business plans. Until a member of the Spore team says so, take it with a grain of salt.

You do realise that the publisher mandates DRM, and that the technical producer has to battle the headache of integrating said DRM tech into the product? the TP probably heard from management that it was the DRM he had to implement and that Spore also used it. This kind of source is reliable enough for me.

[Homes]

If sarcastic gamer actually played PC games I'd see a boycott in the future...but alas.

[Pluvious]

No sale. Thanks EA for f'ing up yet another game.

[torrefaction]

I'm with Random on my views on piracy. Sucks though.

Would you fuckers stop pirating shit?

[Evil Avatar]

Q: But constant checks for as long as I own and play the game, every 10 days? ...What happens if I don't play for 11 days and the moment I want to play my connection is down? Are you saying I'm not going to be able to play my perfectly legitimate purchased copy of the game, even the retail version, until I get permission?

A: That is correct. And I would suggest that you contact EA Support the moment this happens (once you get your internet back) to report the issue. If there are people having problems with the system as designed, then Support needs to hear about it so they can help us evaluate it for the next game title.

We are totally 100% against software piracy around here, but if they ship a game with this feature... I just can't imagine using my money to support a publisher with this little respect for their legitimate customers.

Since the discussion has come up... if you buy Half-Life 2 or Orange Box isn't an online check required before you can even play the game???

That would be a procedcure that is EVEN MORE RESTRICTIVE than what EA is suggesting and people don't seem to have much of a problem with that. Are we bashing on EA just to bash on EA?

[Pluvious]

Are they f'ing nuts?.. a product that self-destructs if you don't go online every 10 days - - forever??? Guess my $50-60 is just to rent it for a while until I get bored with it and stop playing.. then it "ceases to function".

[walkstheplanes]

I doubt I'll be without internet for 10 days, but in all honesty, this is just a huge inconvenience, and crackers are going to get around it No Matter What You Do. Arg. Why Spore, and not some vaporware crap like Big Game Fishing 8.

[Esquilax1138]

I'll still be getting Mass Effect for sure, even if I have to deal with it connecting every few days. I have no troubles with Steam, or BioShock and they both need to connect.

I'll save my internet rage for something more important, like no Steam version since EA is stuck on their own shitty online store, or no PC version of Force Unleashed.

[Pluvious]

That would be a procedcure that is EVEN MORE RESTRICTIVE than what EA is suggesting and people don't seem to have much of a problem with that.

Nope.. I don't have a problem with that because the game doesn't just disappear if I don't play it in a few weeks.

[Evil Avatar]

Does this mean that our review will have to include a link to a torrent of the crack file so the people who purchased the title can actually play it???

[jpublic]

Considering this game isn't due out for like 5 months, I remain hopeful that EA will relent on this.

Although seriously, buying the console version won't be any better, it's just got that protection *built in*. Heck. knowing them, you'll probably *have* to have Live Gold to play it on a 360, and Sony will add some constant reporting scheme to theirs.



And also, there's a valid question here - if the game is disabled after 10 days, what happens if you uninstall the game and then come back to it a couple months later? Are you essentially paying $50-60 for a one-time install?

[Vyzov]

That would be a procedure that is EVEN MORE RESTRICTIVE than what EA is suggesting and people don't seem to have much of a problem with that. Are we bashing on EA just to bash on EA?

I honestly didn't realize that EA was behind this, it just totally slipped my mind.

I can't remember if Steam requires an online validation before you can actually play the game. I think you do, because I remember there being a bunch of problems when HL2 came out with people not being able to play for a few days because they couldn't get online.

[Acidpoptart]

Nope.. I don't have a problem with that because the game doesn't just disappear if I don't play it in a few weeks.

I am pretty sure they don't mean it will stop working forever. Just until you go back online again.

I don't know what to do about this anymore... I feel like I would accidentally trigger something and get my self banned... It is just a huge pain. If people are able to use a crack and still get the online functionality, then I will consider the purchase. If not, I can live without Spore.

[Evil Avatar]

I honestly didn't realize that EA was behind this, it just totally slipped my mind.

I can't remember if Steam requires an online validation before you can actually play the game. I think you do, because I remember there being a bunch of problems when HL2 came out with people not being able to play for a few days because they couldn't get online.

That was my thought as well. I seem to remember that the version you get in the box is really nothing much more than a CD key and that to even play the game for the first time you needed to go online and activate it. And I do know that after activating it if you are offline you have to sit and wait till it times out before you can play the game.

This is just as restrictive as a version check every few days and people aren't throwing big fits over Valve's security.

Why does Valve get the free pass and Electronic Arts is the big bad guy?

[fitbabits]

Here's a scenario...

You're a big Spore fan (like, HUGE). You bought the game, registered it, etc., played it ever four of five days so as to not run afoul of EA's anti-piracy methods...

Then you decide you're going to go on vacation for two weeks. To somewhere isolated where you can take a break from life and all its inherent woes. You have a great time on vacation...

You arrive home and then have to call EA Support to re-activate your LEGITIMATE version of a game you've already paid retail price for!

Awesome job, EA.

And to think, people actually believed EA's bullshit about being more consumer-friendly.

[Johan]

I don't understand people, frankly. There are more high-quality games around than anyone can play...even people who play games for a living can't play them all. WHY do people continue to gobble up products from companies that have such policies? I don't buy EA games. Problem solved for me, and I do my part to try to change their practices by not buying their stuff. I also don't buy anything at GameStop. Problem solved, at a cost of thousands of dollars in sales to them, by the way!

There are other options. Really, people should either put some steel in their backbone and actually do something about their complaints, or just buy the product, shut up, and enjoy it with its inherent blemishes. It's as if a company puts a bit of shit in the ice cream flavors it sells, and rather than buy flavors from other companies, people whine about the smell and taste, while STILL BUYING IT AND EATING IT! If you can't resist the flavor, shut up and eat it and enjoy it as much as possible; don't spoil it for yourself! Otherwise, don't buy it!

And to think, people actually believed EA's bullshit about being more consumer-friendly.

I never did.

[Acidpoptart]

Why does Valve get the free pass and Electronic Arts is the big bad guy?

I think the difference is that many of the games people play on Steam are multiplayer and require you to be online anyway, like Counter-Strike, TF2, etc. For single-player games, you can set it up to play while offline, but I am not sure if that has an expiration like Spore does.

[Libuke]

That was my thought as well. I seem to remember that the version you get in the box is really nothing much more than a CD key and that to even play the game for the first time you needed to go online and activate it. And I do know that after activating it if you are offline you have to sit and wait till it times out before you can play the game.

This is just as restrictive as a version check every few days and people aren't throwing big fits over Valve's security.

Why does Valve get the free pass and Electronic Arts is the big bad guy?

I run steam in offline mod on one of my older computers that I don't use steam to play TF2 and other multiplayer games I have haven't had a problem in the many months that steam install has been offline. You have to be online then set it to start up in offline mod and then there is no problem.

[51|RandoM]

I'd be violating your rights if I locked you out of your own house.

And that's basically what it boils down to -- how on earth do you think this is going to deter pirates from anything? They'll just continue to play their cracked copies while legit customers are the ones jumping through the support hurdles.

So many misconceptions in your post, where do I begin?

Your analogy is still broken, why are you continuing to use it?

Where did I say that DRM deters pirates? Good luck finding that quote.

Where are your numbers that compare the projected costs of DRM to the projected losses due to piracy? Where are they? See, the thing is, you don't have any numbers like that, yet you are assuming that the people who actually do have those numbers are making the wrong decisions. Just think about that for a minute. You---who have no clue---are assuming that the people who do have most of the clues are making the wrong decision.

...and finally, although I've seemingly said this a million times already over the multiple piracy/DRM threads on this forum, I'll say it once more:

DRM is not about stopping pirates, it is about stopping casual copiers. The goal is to make it just difficult/complicated enough that the casual copier will not casually copy the title with DRM.

That is what makes it particularly silly for you to assume they're coming up with the wrong answer... you don't even seem to understand the question.

[Johan]

DRM is not about stopping pirates, it is about stopping casual copiers.

It fails. I'm as clueless about this stuff as my dead grandmother, God rest her soul, and I can get software illegally if I want.

Arrrrrrr; that ship has sailed, mee hardees!

[jakie_chon]

The reason why valve gets a free pass is because steam is a lot more than just DRM, I think everyone knew that.

I was going to buy spore, but now I'm not sure. Maybe for the Xbox. I have skipped DRM'd titles before.

Also, the reason why DRM sucks so much on the PC is because my pc is NOT just another gaming console. I NEED it to work, and though I admit I am not aware if this DRM would cause me problems, I would rather not risk it.

[torrefaction]

Must. Not. get sucked into a debate with Johan.

[Johan]

Must. Not. get sucked into a debate with Johan.

Watch some 30 Rock instead. (http://www.hulu.com/30-rock)

And what's to debate? You think DRM works, I don't. So what? Who cares?

People need to quit bitching about the poop in their ice cream from EA and either eat it and enjoy, or buy elsewhere. Simple, really.

[Deepsleeper]

Are you a pirate yet?

How 'bout now? No? Okay I'll just -- what about now?

[Zurik]

I don't understand people, frankly. There are more high-quality games around than anyone can play...even people who play games for a living can't play them all. WHY do people continue to gobble up products from companies that have such policies? I don't buy EA games. Problem solved for me, and I do my part to try to change their practices by not buying their stuff. I also don't buy anything at GameStop. Problem solved, at a cost of thousands of dollars in sales to them, by the way!

There are other options. Really, people should either put some steel in their backbone and actually do something about their complaints, or just buy the product, shut up, and enjoy it with its inherent blemishes. It's as if a company puts a bit of shit in the ice cream flavors it sells, and rather than buy flavors from other companies, people whine about the smell and taste, while STILL BUYING IT AND EATING IT! If you can't resist the flavor, shut up and eat it and enjoy it as much as possible; don't spoil it for yourself! Otherwise, don't buy it!



So you're saying because EA took over a company that makes a game I like, I have no right to complain how they're handling it and should just take whatever crap they dish out. I like Mass Effect, but I don't like how they are handling it. In your analogy, you could pick the crap out of the ice cream and have a perfectly good desert with no blemishes, that's what the pirate copies will be. I agree that EA does make mainly shitty games, but sadly good companies are under them now, so there's not much of a choice. I say we buy the game to support Bioware, then download the cracked version so we can actually play it for longer than the average six months EA likes to support their games.

[Wma]

Here's a scenario...

You're a big Spore fan (like, HUGE). You bought the game, registered it, etc., played it ever four of five days so as to not run afoul of EA's anti-piracy methods...

Then you decide you're going to go on vacation for two weeks. To somewhere isolated where you can take a break from life and all its inherent woes. You have a great time on vacation...

You arrive home and then have to call EA Support to re-activate your LEGITIMATE version of a game you've already paid retail price for!

Awesome job, EA.

And to think, people actually believed EA's bullshit about being more consumer-friendly.


I can understand the misunderstanding by reading that quote ... but it is clarified in other dev posts - the only thing needed to play it again is to go online again after those 2 weeks.

from a post by Chris Priestly:

To clarify:

If you buy MEPC, install and run the game the game will register automatically and you are good to play.

After 5 days the next time you start the game the system will automatically try to register. If you are connected to the internet, it will occur without you even knowing it and reset the 10 days.

If you are not connected to the internet, you can keep playing for the next 5 days. As you start each day, the system will keep trying to validate. If it connects and validates, the "clock" is reset.

If the system cannot connect to the internet after the 10 days, you will not be able to play MEPC until you are connected to the internet. Once you reconnect to the internet and try to play, it will re-validate and you can play as normal for another period of 10 days as before.

So it is not "at 10 days and if the servers aren't working you're screwed". There is a large window (5days) where the system automatically tries to re-validate to prevent last minute problems.

[51|RandoM]

It fails. I'm as clueless about this stuff as my dead grandmother, God rest her soul, and I can get software illegally if I want.

It fails with you so you assume it fails with everybody? Whatever.

Does anybody find it curious that these companies, who presumably have a hell of a lot more data about the issue than you do are still putting money into DRM?

If they were not seeing favorable results would they continue to invest in DRM?

Must. Not. get sucked into a debate with Johan.
Reminds you of Wargames, doesn't it? The only way to win is to not play.

[Johan]

So you're saying because EA took over a company that makes a game I like, I have no right to complain how they're handling it and should just take whatever crap they dish out.

No...you and others should give up the hypocritical and illogical notion that BUYING IT and COMPLAINING accomplishes ANYTHING at all (other than making yourselves miserable and hampering your enjoyment of the game and giving you high blood pressure, perhaps)! :D

I like Mass Effect, but I don't like how they are handling it. In your analogy, you could pick the crap out of the ice cream and have a perfectly good desert with no blemishes, that's what the pirate copies will be.

Someone's getting it! DRM=fail

I agree that EA does make mainly shitty games, but sadly good companies are under them now, so there's not much of a choice.

Yes, there's a choice. Buy it, or NOT.

I say we buy the game to support Bioware, then download the cracked version so we can actually play it for longer than the average six months EA likes to support their games.

So...support their corporate policies! Okay; it's an option!

It fails with you so you assume it fails with everybody? Whatever.

If it fails with me, it does indeed fail with virtually everybody...except perhaps with the dead.

The only way to win is to not play.

Now you're catching on! Don't buy EA!

[I_Kleiner]

Why not just put Spore on Steam and be done with it. Most people know Steam and will be less hesitant to purchase the game.

[51|RandoM]

Why not just put Spore on Steam and be done with it. Most people know Steam and will be less hesitant to purchase the game.

EA has its own digital distribution service. I would not expect EA-published titles to appear on Steam, at least not at the same time the titles were on their own service.

[Serapth]

I dunno, so long as its clearly marked on the box that an internet connection is required, I am pretty much OK with this. I mean, piracy is a problem that needs to be dealt with, especially on the PC which doesnt have per device encryption keys like platforms do.

[ElfShotTheFood]

The novelty of Spore will have worn off long before 10 days have expired. ;)

[mightbe]

It's not Starforce, but it's not much better.

[ProfPuppet]

One less game to buy for me.

[Serapth]

It's not Starforce, but it's not much better.

Night and day difference. Starforce could fuck your computer up, SecurROM at the worst case is an inconveinence.

[Vyzov]

My worry is with EA's registration servers. I had what ever the two battlefield 2 expansions after Special Forces were and it required you to register the game through their EA Link service even after installing the game and all that. I tried for about.. two months before I said "fuck it" and forgot about it. In that entire two month period, every time I tried, the fucking servers were down. (About 3 times a week)

[Phanto]

They are just screwing Spore with this lame shit, what if a person don't have internet?!? They can't be that stupid, but it seems like they are indeed. Who thought about this "SecuROM Technology" idea?

It will be amusing to see at launch or ten days later people whining and complaining on Spore/Maxis forums and all over the internet.

They will end by removing that thing on the first week.

[Serapth]

They are just screwing Spore with this lame shit, what if a person don't have internet?!? They can't be that stupid, but it seems like they are indeed. Who thought about this "SecuROM Technology" idea?

It will be amusing to see at launch or ten days later people whining and complaining on Spore/Maxis forums and all over the internet.

They will end by removing that thing on the first week.

How many people have a computer that is capable of running modern PC games, but not an internet connection? I would draw you a VENN diagram, but frankly, one side would be impossible to see, as 0.00001% makes for a damned small sampling.

Its about comprable to bitching at FOX because some people might not have electricity and thus can't watch the news.

[Phanto]

They are just screwing Spore with this lame shit, what if a person don't have internet?!? They can't be that stupid, but it seems like they are indeed. Who thought about this "SecuROM Technology" idea?

It will be amusing to see at launch or ten days later people whining and complaining on Spore/Maxis forums and all over the internet.

They will end by removing that thing on the first week.

I really don't get why they include those annoying "security method", that just make the game more attractive to "crackers" and besides as far as I remember The Sims franchise never had something like that and it has been selling millions.

[Serapth]

I really don't get why they include those annoying "security method", that just make the game more attractive to "crackers" and besides as far as I remember The Sims franchise never had something like that and it has been selling millions.

For the same reason your front door has a lock. I mean, that lock isnt going to do a damned thing against a real theif, as they can pick it within minutes.

Yet, at the end of the day, you still lock your doors dont you? You would almost consider it idiotic not to, right? Well, SecuROM and similar technologies are publishers locks.

They arent there to stop the thieves, these people will get around most any protection eventually. They are there to keep the honest, honest.

[XxSATANxX]

Are you a pirate yet?

How 'bout now? No? Okay I'll just -- what about now?

Thread Winner!!!!!!!!!!

[Tel Prydain]

Considering this game isn't due out for like 5 months, I remain hopeful that EA will relent on this.

Although seriously, buying the console version won't be any better, it's just got that protection *built in*. Heck. knowing them, you'll probably *have* to have Live Gold to play it on a 360, and Sony will add some constant reporting scheme to theirs.

Obviously.
http://www.freewebs.com/larryboy_dragon/retardicon.jpg

[Chameleo]

isnt there a big online portion that requires an internet connection everytime you start up the game anyways?!

as long as you have a real version of the game, this shouldn't be any different than the normal functioning of the game...

[Serapth]

Besides... don't like it? Buy a fucking Xbox.

[Evil Avatar]

If they were not seeing favorable results would they continue to invest in DRM?


Yes. Corporate logic. The suits continue to think that if they make it more difficult to pirate a piece of software that people will purchase it instead of pirating it.

This is partially due to the success companies like id Software, Valve and Infinity Ward have had with things as simple as CD Keys. If you don't have a legitimate CD Key you can't play online. (Or in the case of Half-Life 2 you can't play at all.)

A company like EA looks at things like DRM and CD Keys as a way to increase the number of legitimate copies of the product that are sold and there probably is some truth to that -- a certain percentage of people who might have pirated the game before will be forced to purchase the game if they want to play it online.

What that ignores is the idea that anyone who doesn't care about playing online isn't going to be motivated to buy software that may have intrusive DRM (like Starforce or Steam) when they can easily grab a crack or a torrent and be playing within hours without any of the hoops that the legitimate people are going to have to jump through.

It becomes a question of percentages that no on can confirm either way... does the DRM make legitimate people say "Screw it." and pirate the game or does it make pirates into legitimate purchasers?

You can't research a question like that, it is impossible. So, the suits fall back on the idea that if they make it tougher to pirate, less people will pirate it.

[Grey]

isnt there a big online portion that requires an internet connection everytime you start up the game anyways?!

as long as you have a real version of the game, this shouldn't be any different than the normal functioning of the game...


No there isnt. Except for online games... :>


In this case its the first time I would stay with "in theory..." - I dont remember any time longer as two weeks were I didnt had internet in the past 5 or 7 years, but on the contrary to steam and any other account it wont work completly offline.
So if due to any reason my internet realy breaks down I cant play these games. Thats just not the way to go...

[Serapth]

You can't research a question like that, it is impossible. So, the suits fall back on the idea that if they make it tougher to pirate, less people will pirate it.

Actually yes, you can. Its called trending and its done all the time.

Take a game with heavy DRM and compare it against a game with little DRM. Now contrast both against other metrics like metascores and advertising budgets and you can fairly easily come up with solid strategy.

People do it every day, in basically every industry from call centers, to law enforcement to game sales. This aint rocket science, its fairly simple math + a small bit of common sense.

[Amalor]

If the game is fun, I'll play it.

When I get angry about piracy I don't blame the companies trying to protect their products, I blame the thieves who caused the problem in the first place. Call me crazy. :)


You have the right sentiment, pirates are poor pieces of crap that can't afford games, but there has got to be a way of dealing with them and protecting copyrighted information that:

1: Does not inconvenience the legitimate user (by even 2% cpu usage)
2: Allows the legitimate user "fair" use ( I should be able to copy the damn Disney movie so my kids don't mess it up)

So yeah fuck pirates! fuck them up their stupid asses, but, as a guy who only gets nocd cracks for games I bought and only d/ls torrents of games I owned but can't play for failed media (damn 3.5s) I have to hope there is a better way.

[Serapth]

You have the right sentiment, pirates are poor pieces of crap that can't afford games, but there has got to be a way of dealing with them and protecting copyrighted information that:

1: Does not inconvenience the legitimate user (by even 2% cpu usage)
2: Allows the legitimate user "fair" use ( I should be able to copy the damn Disney movie so my kids don't mess it up)

So yeah fuck pirates! fuck them up their stupid asses, but, as a guy who only gets nocd cracks for games I bought and only d/ls torrents of games I owned but can't play for failed media (damn 3.5s) I have to hope there is a better way.



Ummm, arent you arguing in favor of this then, since you won't need to get a nocd crack? I mean, really, the only people that should be disappointed by this news are

1- the privacy nuts
2- the ludites without internet connections
3- the pirates


None of which I really feel pity for, yar. Frankly I would take this dial home scheme in a heartbeat over most PC games ( and Xbox/Ps3 for that matter ) requirement of having the physical media in the drive countermeasures.

[Amalor]

Well Serapth I guess it all depends on how obtrusive the thing is. I don't like the whole idea of it but if its handled behind the scenes and the servers work well and EA maintains them on a long term basis then yeah your right, it really works.I guess I see red these days any time I hear of DRMs. I think my real gripe is how starforce forced my to reinstall my OS once, Half-Life 2 didn't allow me to play because of server issues a coupla times and I really can't get behind the whole thou may only install x many times crap. I like the idea of some company having a dbase of all my games I own and being able to download and install them unlimitedly and them play them to my hearts content without hunting for the original discs and looking for the key in some manual I lost in my filing cabinet a year ago. Really thats all I ask :) keep track of me, validate me , sanctify me just don't bother me lol

[Serapth]

Well Serapth I guess it all depends on how obtrusive the thing is. I don't like the whole idea of it but if its handled behind the scenes and the servers work well and EA maintains them on a long term basis then yeah your right, it really works.I guess I see red these days any time I hear of DRMs. I think my real gripe is how starforce forced my to reinstall my OS once, Half-Life 2 didn't allow me to play because of server issues a coupla times and I really can't get behind the whole thou may only install x many times crap. I like the idea of some company having a dbase of all my games I own and being able to download and install them unlimitedly and them play them to my hearts content without hunting for the original discs and looking for the key in some manual I lost in my filing cabinet a year ago. Really thats all I ask :) keep track of me, validate me , sanctify me just don't bother me lol


See Starforce is inexcusable. Thou shalt not fuck up an innocent, should be the mantra of any DRM. As to HL2, well at first it was a check everytime DRM system, hell it may still be.

Frankly what is being proposed here ( and with Bioshock ) is a hell of alot less draconian then Steam ever was.

[jeffbax]

This kills spore hype so bad. Not even sure if I want it now. I do however, miss edit button here. I really don't think its that necessary to remove the ability to edit.

[Wyrm]

They lost my sale. I refuse to support a business model that doesn't trust the honest consumer. That's all DRM is, and to take it any other way is silly.

If they want to prevent people from pirating it, they need to make a fun game, give it some multiplayer worth writing home about it, and require a cd key to get online. It's that simple.

EA especially ought to be well aware of this, since they were the ones who made one of the biggest online FPS games of the last few years (BF2).

I was an extremely vocal opponent of Steam for a long time, because I had loads of issues with it when it first came out. I had to wait three days after buying and installing Half Life 2 to actually play it, because of various issues with Steam crashing, the authentication servers not working, etc. They fixed all of my issues with it, and now, wherever I have Steam installed, I can install all of the games I've bought through it, as many times as I want. At least with their copy protection, I'm getting a pretty nice feature that makes it a little less difficult to swallow.

We can all agree that for the most part, for those of us who buy the games, it is nothing but a needless hoop that we must jump through. It's something we're kind of being forced to pay for. And yes Johan, we could vote with our dollars, but that isn't going to stop them. Evil put it nicely, the suits will continue to put the protection in because there is no real way of measuring how sales are effected by pirates.

[Serapth]

They lost my sale. I refuse to support a business model that doesn't trust the honest consumer. That's all DRM is, and to take it any other way is silly.

Do you own a house, or rent an apartment? If so, do you have a lock on your front door?

Do you bank? If so, do you have a PIN?

Its not about the honest consumer. Its about keeping the consumer honest. Welcome to the world where people are kept honest because of laws and contraints, not because of morality. Get used to it, because well... its the real world.

[Amalor]

QFT

See Starforce is inexcusable. Thou shalt not fuck up an innocent, should be the mantra of any DRM. As to HL2, well at first it was a check everytime DRM system, hell it may still be.

Frankly what is being proposed here ( and with Bioshock ) is a hell of alot less draconian then Steam ever was.

I concede to your points, we just got to adapt to the future I guess and have a open mind about change. Serapth... will you be my dad? j/k :D

[Banacek]

The thing with Steam is that I can dl the game, turn on Offline Mode, and be done with the server communication. I don't do that because I really don't care, but the option is there.

[SuicideKing]

Hmm, speaking of STEAM I just attempted to start up TF2, only to be informed that the servers were too busy... :mad:

[SuicideKing]

... to handle my request... When did the edit button disappear?

[Variable Gear]

... to handle my request... When did the edit button disappear?
One/Two/More than that days ago. Read up.
We've had some issues with people editing a post after it was on the front page already - and not for the better. It's actually been a major security hole for a while. Unfortunately one side effect of locking it up, is it locks it up for all posts in the News forum.

[Wyrm]

Do you own a house, or rent an apartment? If so, do you have a lock on your front door?

Do you bank? If so, do you have a PIN?

Its not about the honest consumer. Its about keeping the consumer honest. Welcome to the world where people are kept honest because of laws and contraints, not because of morality. Get used to it, because well... its the real world.

That argument is ridiculous. I'll play along, because you seem to think your position is the only right one. You lock the door on your house because you want to protect your stuff. The company that made the lock does not show up at your door each night to ensure that lock is firmly set in place. Just as it is your responsibility to throw the bolt, so too should it be the responsibility of these companies relying on copy protection to come up with a method that does no harm to the average, honest consumer.

By your logic, there ought to be cameras on every street corner and at every traffic light to make sure people never ever break the law. If that's your version of "the real world," I'm not sure I'd like to live there.

[Evil Avatar]

Take a game with heavy DRM and compare it against a game with little DRM. Now contrast both against other metrics like metascores and advertising budgets and you can fairly easily come up with solid strategy.

Again, you can't do that -- it doesn't work. Not in the real world.

Games are subjective. Just because a game with DRM sells better than a game without DRM, that wouldn't tell you anything unless they were the exact same game. Even if both titles had similar advertising budgets -- what makes GTAIV a 10 Million+ seller isn't going to compare to a similar game like Saint's Row.

You have to totally throw that kind of thinking out the window when it comes to games. You can't use corporate doublespeak to see if DRM is the difference between GTAIV selling 10 Million+ copies and Saint's Row selling 1 Million+ copies.

Trust me, I worked in Market Research for 8 years and the one thing you learn when working in Market Research is that Market Research is totally and completely worthless.

[colonel 32dll]

I mean, really, the only people that should be disappointed by this news are

1- the privacy nuts
2- the ludites without internet connections
3- the pirates


You don't seriously think the pirates are going to be disappointed, do you? HA!

Pirates -----> :rolleyes::D:p:):cool::D:p:):rolleyes:;)

[Evil Avatar]

Frankly what is being proposed here (and with Bioshock) is a hell of alot less draconian then Steam ever was.

That is what I keep thinking. People are quick to villianize Electronic Arts because they do tend to beat a franchise into the ground and they want to gobble up every tiny developer under the sun, but when Valve wanted to make even the people who purchased a box copy of their game download and install Steam just so they could play the game they got a free ride from consumers.

[Evil Avatar]

... to handle my request... When did the edit button disappear?

When someone abused it.

[Serapth]

That argument is ridiculous. I'll play along, because you seem to think your position is the only right one. You lock the door on your house because you want to protect your stuff.

See, this is where our arguments go in massively different directions.

Of course I lock my doors because I want to protect my stuff, but more to the point I lock my doors because I don't trust my fellow man.

Granted, by locking my door I inconvenience my friends and family, who would generally just be able to open my door and walk in, but now require more work to gain access in some manner.

See, I am not locking my doors to keep my friends and family out, just as game developers arent locking their doors to keep their loyal customers out. For the most part too, my locked door 99% of the time isnt really that much of a hindrance to most legit users, but nicely it does keep 99.9% of the people I dont want to enter, out of my house.


The funiest part is, security is actually getting more user friendly, BY FAR. Maybe most of you folk are too young to remember, or too consoled, who knows. But PC ( / C64/Atari/Amiga ) gaming has always been plagued with copy protection of some form, because pirating has always been so prevelant. Thing is, it used to be things like code rings, manuals with secret phrases, etc....

Frankly, I think most of you folk are just whiny bitches that dont understand how a company trying to prevent piracy is frankly, that company trying to prevent itself from going out of business. These acts are actually SUPPORTING your hobby.

[Amalor]

When someone abused it.

Out of genuine curiosity, how does one abuse the edit button? I must have missed something.

[Telefrog]

That is what I keep thinking. People are quick to villianize Electronic Arts because they do tend to beat a franchise into the ground and they want to gobble up every tiny developer under the sun, but when Valve wanted to make even the people who purchased a box copy of their game download and install Steam just so they could play the game they got a free ride from consumers.

Valve and Steam never got a free ride from me. Check my posts. I've always been against any kind of online certification scheme for games.

That said, at least you can download/install a Steam game, authenticate it once, then check the offline mode box and play it without the internet check ever again. EA's plan requires the game to phone home every 10 days for as long as you have it on your PC. Fuck that noise.

[Telefrog]

Frankly, I think most of you folk are just whiny bitches that dont understand how a company trying to prevent piracy is frankly, that company trying to prevent itself from going out of business. These acts are actually SUPPORTING your hobby.

And yet, somehow through the grace of God, companies like Stardock never have to do shit like this. Weird how that works out.

[Amalor]

And yet, somehow through the grace of God, companies like Stardock never have to do shit like this. Weird how that works out.

Stardock is a great company that really takes things back to the old days of PC gaming but while their games are great they aren't exactly setting records for development costs. They also tend to get a lot of slack for being the underdog as well, I mean really, if EA released Sins people would be throwing their own feces at them for not including a epic single player campaign.

[Serapth]

And yet, somehow through the grace of God, companies like Stardock never have to do shit like this. Weird how that works out.

Pointing out an exception does not prove the rule. Especially pointing on an exception that isnt really a game company and made most of their money from productivity apps.

[Evil Avatar]

And yet, somehow through the grace of God, companies like Stardock never have to do shit like this. Weird how that works out.

Different thinking. Stardock thinks that if they don't include DRM it will encourage people to buy a legitimate copy of their game. This thinking is wrong.

The reality is that DRM/noDRM isn't usually the difference between someone buying a game or not buying a game. Some people pirate and some people don't.

Stardock is just a small enough company that they can live with the number of legitimate sales that they get without feeling like they need to do anything to try to drive up sales.

[Hemalin]

Do you own a house, or rent an apartment? If so, do you have a lock on your front door?


There's a difference between having a lock on your door and having a 500lb reinforced steel combination lock. The 'casual copiers' that continuous verification is supposed to stop would be thwarted by little more that a CD check. The people that would circumvent CD checks are the same ones that would circumvent the more advanced forms of DRM. There's nothing inherently wrong with DRM, it's just that a lot of what developers/publishers try to enforce is overkill.

[Serapth]

Again, you can't do that -- it doesn't work. Not in the real world.

Games are subjective. Just because a game with DRM sells better than a game without DRM, that wouldn't tell you anything unless they were the exact same game. Even if both titles had similar advertising budgets -- what makes GTAIV a 10 Million+ seller isn't going to compare to a similar game like Saint's Row.

You have to totally throw that kind of thinking out the window when it comes to games. You can't use corporate doublespeak to see if DRM is the difference between GTAIV selling 10 Million+ copies and Saint's Row selling 1 Million+ copies.

Trust me, I worked in Market Research for 8 years and the one thing you learn when working in Market Research is that Market Research is totally and completely worthless.

This is exactly what my wife used to do for a living. Her job was to come up with statistical trends to forcast user volumes. She took historical data, usage trends and yes, guesstimates, to forecast what was going to happen in the future. Thing is, she was accurate to a degree of precision that would scare the hell out of you.

It can be done. Granted, its not extremely precise, but over time and with more data points, it becomes more and more precise. I gaurantee you there are enough datapoints and trends out there, that the game companies can make a more then educated decision on if DRM will or wont hurt sales.

Hell, what makes me laugh is that I know that many people who say " well, this lost my sale! " are still going to line up on day one.

[Serapth]

There's a difference between having a lock on your door and having a 500lb reinforced steel combination lock. The 'casual copiers' that continuous verification is supposed to stop would be thwarted by little more that a CD check. The people that would circumvent CD checks are the same ones that would circumvent the more advanced forms of DRM. There's nothing inherently wrong with DRM, it's just that a lot of what developers/publishers try to enforce is overkill.

Frankly, thats bullshit. For example, if the lock to your front door could be circumvented by word of mouth, you would see a sudden upswing in front door security.

Hell a door key is more archaic in a way, as if you lose your key, you can never get back in and good luck getting a replacement.

[Crowe]

Frankly, I think most of you folk are just whiny bitches that dont understand how a company trying to prevent piracy is frankly, that company trying to prevent itself from going out of business. These acts are actually SUPPORTING your hobby.

You actually believe this will stop people from being able to pirate this game?

Best case scenario for someone not wanting to pay will be playing this several days before Retail release. Worst case I'll be playing this a week after release.

[BlackPete]

So many misconceptions in your post, where do I begin?

Your analogy is still broken, why are you continuing to use it?

Because you still fail to understand the point. You basically place all the blame squarely on the pirates shoulders for the ever-increasingly restrictive DRM measures.

I reply with an absurd analogy of sealing up your house so completely that nothing can get in or out. Who cares if it's now rendered useless and unlivable, at least it's secure, right?

And hey, let's blame the thieves for making such an absurd solution "necessary", right? It doesn't matter how overbearing, inconvenient, ridiculous, and restrictive the "fix" is, it's still all the thieves fault, right?

yet you are assuming that the people who actually do have those numbers are making the wrong decisions. Just think about that for a minute. You---who have no clue---are assuming that the people who do have most of the clues are making the wrong decision.

That's a mighty big assumption you have there. You have no idea what I do for a living, do you?

...and finally, although I've seemingly said this a million times already over the multiple piracy/DRM threads on this forum, I'll say it once more:

DRM is not about stopping pirates, it is about stopping casual copiers. The goal is to make it just difficult/complicated enough that the casual copier will not casually copy the title with DRM.

That is what makes it particularly silly for you to assume they're coming up with the wrong answer... you don't even seem to understand the question.

And yet again you still failed to get my point. Let's recap, shall we?

News: More restrictive DRM is announced
You: Blame the pirates for making this necessary!
Me: Here's an absurd analogy where the solution is worse than the problem
You: You don't understand! It's supposed to keep the casual copiers OUT!!!

You said it yourself. DRM is designed to stop casual copiers. Not pirates.

So that leaves one question: Who exactly are the ever-increasing DRM measures aimed at? The casual copiers? CD Keys don't work so good anymore against casual copiers? Requiring that you leave a CD in the drive doesn't work so good anymore? A one-time activation doesn't work anymore? It's now an ever-increasing battle against the casual copiers (who are still somehow not pirates)?

I'm all in favor of some basic DRM that will at least prevent casual copying. What I am NOT in favor of is coming back from a 2 week vacation only to find my game disabled and I need to call support to get it activated again.

Do I even need to bring up Starforce?

There's a line where DRM can go too far. Do I need to spell this out any further for you? Blaming this on the thieves that made this "necessary" is not just silly -- it's stupid.

[Serapth]

You actually believe this will stop people from being able to pirate this game?

Best case scenario for someone not wanting to pay will be playing this several days before Retail release. Worst case I'll be playing this a week after release.

NO NO NO

As I have said many times, I think it will stop "HONEST" people from pirating games. That is the big difference.

See, there are two types of people. Those that are willing to jump through hoops to make something work for free and... well, everyone else. If piracy is super easy, like here go run this CD easy, almost everyone will do it. Yet, if piracy is tricky most casual gamers will go the path of least resistance.

People with the mindset that to be successful an anti piracy scheme must stop 100% of people are on crack. Thats sorta like condeming a law against murder because murder is still possible after the fact.

[BlackPete]

People with the mindset that to be successful an anti piracy scheme must stop 100% of people are on crack. Thats sorta like condeming a law against murder because murder is still possible after the fact.

This is the real crux of the issue. Too many people see this as an all-or-nothing type of deal, when most people just want a reasonable balance.

[BlackPete]

That was my thought as well. I seem to remember that the version you get in the box is really nothing much more than a CD key and that to even play the game for the first time you needed to go online and activate it. And I do know that after activating it if you are offline you have to sit and wait till it times out before you can play the game.

This is just as restrictive as a version check every few days and people aren't throwing big fits over Valve's security.

Why does Valve get the free pass and Electronic Arts is the big bad guy?

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case, at the time I bought Half-life 2, I didn't know what kind of a DRM it was going to come with. Hell, I was actually puzzled why there were signs up in the store offering to install HL2 for you for $50.

Well... I got to find out for myself through a 4 hour installation process involving a failed authorization server, a mandatory patch download & install, and other fun times.

I haven't bought another Valve game since then.

[Hemalin]

NO NO NO

As I have said many times, I think it will stop "HONEST" people from pirating games. That is the big difference.

See, there are two types of people. Those that are willing to jump through hoops to make something work for free and... well, everyone else. If piracy is super easy, like here go run this CD easy, almost everyone will do it. Yet, if piracy is tricky most casual gamers will go the path of least resistance.

People with the mindset that to be successful an anti piracy scheme must stop 100% of people are on crack. Thats sorta like condeming a law against murder because murder is still possible after the fact.

Even requiring a CD check will stop those "HONEST" people from pirating. The moment people go online for a NOCD crack or a program that lets them make a copy of their games, it means they are one click away from just pirating the game. Whether the game requires a CD check or infinite validation, it will prevent casual copying. Either way, pirates will still end up playing it.

[Serapth]

Even requiring a CD check will stop those "HONEST" people from pirating. The moment people go online for a NOCD crack or a program that lets them make a copy of their games, it means they are one click away from just pirating the game. Whether the game requires a CD check or infinite validation, it will prevent casual copying. Either way, pirates will still end up playing it.

Lets just say I know what the "typical" pirate experience is. Even the casual gamer ( who gets a burnt DVD from a friend ) is pretty comfortable with the idea of "copy this EXE into the install folder" instructions. I know that will have stopped may 20% or even 50% of pirates, but still its not outside of the realm of casual users.

Now look into what is involed in cracking say... X3. That is a process that will stop 99.99% of hackers. It can be done, and most legit uses wont care. Sad part is, they have to piss of some legit users to prune out all the unlegit users.

[Banacek]

I haven't bought another Valve game since then.

Wow, sucks to be you then. ;)

[H.Bogard]

Torrents and No-CD cracks FTW.

Fuck this shit.

[Hemalin]

Lets just say I know what the "typical" pirate experience is. Even the casual gamer ( who gets a burnt DVD from a friend ) is pretty comfortable with the idea of "copy this EXE into the install folder" instructions. I know that will have stopped may 20% or even 50% of pirates, but still its not outside of the realm of casual users.
But see, the casual copier doesn't really matter there. His pirate friend would have given him a burnt copy whether he just needed a simple crack or he torrented a cracked iso.

Now look into what is involed in cracking say... X3. That is a process that will stop 99.99% of hackers. It can be done, and most legit uses wont care. Sad part is, they have to piss of some legit users to prune out all the unlegit users.
Well that shit's Starforce. It's doubtful that the loss of legit users made up for those gained by having such draconian DRM.

[51|RandoM]

Now look into what is involed in cracking say... X3.

That game didn't need any DRM, it had a learning curve that looked like a cliff face and no tutorial. Seem to remember the manual being exceedingly weak too.

[ÜberJumper]

Here's a great video by a couple of guys at Tom's Hardware about the death of Iron Lore (Titan Quest and Dawn of War:Soul Storm for PC).

http://www.tomshardware.com/second-take-did-piracy-kill-iron-lore,video-23.html

I've been discussing this a lot lately in the Relic game community. Casual piracy caused Relic to RADICALLY alter their security methods from Company of Heroes to the expansion Opposing Fronts.

Company of Heroes shipped at the last minute without DRM. This provided a PERFECT situation to see if a "Game of the Year" winning game (a good game by anyone's standards) would encourage people to pay for a good product versus pirating it. Turns out... people are dicks.

As a result of the complete lack of DRM, LOTS of people casually pirated it. So many people casually pirated by allowing their friends to install their copy and installing multiple copies on home PCs that there was an epidemic of people complaining about not being able to install one copy on a LAN and allow all their friends to play it and play over hamachi when Relic implemented a new DRM scheme with the release of Opposing Fronts.

As for original CoH and the hardcore pirates, the pirates didn't have to do anything. It was up on torrents right away and NO-CD cracks weren't even required.

At the end of the day, if we don't do anything, PC gaming will be killed because of casual piracy. When you've got a 10 to 1 sales ratio of console vs PC games (CoD4) or even 5 to 1 (Bioshock), that's pretty well the death knell of PC gaming. Sure hardware costs play a lot into that, but if the best we can expect from PC games in a couple of years is Flash games, PC Gaming as a hobby's in trouble.

We the PC gamers owe it to PC Gaming... if we want it to be a viable market... to do everything we can posssibly do to discourage PC games piracy. If you don't want to play games on your PC in a few years, pirate away. Otherwise, stop the casual piracy of games and discourage everyone you know from doing it.

If you want to encourage good games on the PC, vote with your wallet. BUY good games, and DON'T buy games that are crap.

[Serapth]

That game didn't need any DRM, it had a learning curve that looked like a cliff face and no tutorial. Seem to remember the manual being exceedingly weak too.

... but I so wanted to love it. :(

[Jotoco]

People with the mindset that to be successful an anti piracy scheme must stop 100% of people are on crack. Thats sorta like condeming a law against murder because murder is still possible after the fact.

The thing is, they don't make it so that every knife, fork, gun, baseball bat and shoelaces have to be identified to be in your possession so you don't use then to kill someone. They just lock you in jail if you do it and send the eventual patrol out.

What this proposes is that every 10 days you grab your knife in the kitchen you have to report to local autorities to say your using the knife, that it is still in your possession and that you want to use it. Then, if don't use it for 10 days you will have to go to the police saying you want to use it again. Forever.

One thing is the company (game seller or autorities) taking steps to prevent crime. Other is to make the consumer go out of their way to prove thenselves innocents of pirating.


I will make it short for everyone:

For EA you are guilty of piracy if you cannot prove the contrary. Every 10 days.

[Jotoco]

I DO NOT support pirating, by the way.

I have said already, I have an excellent sallary by brazillian standarts and even 1 game can cost me 10% of my monthly budget with ease. I usually just buy 1 or 2 games a year, if that much. And trade for the rest, loan then, get from friends, etc.

Oh, and all that and I don't even have a familly yet!

A game here can cost as much as the necessary food to feed a family of 4 people for about 45 days. And even then I'd rather buy games, even though pirating is rampage. And I really doubt it they would get even half a sale if nobody could pirate stuff.

[BlackPete]

At the end of the day, if we don't do anything, PC gaming will be killed because of casual piracy. When you've got a 10 to 1 sales ratio of console vs PC games (CoD4) or even 5 to 1 (Bioshock), that's pretty well the death knell of PC gaming. Sure hardware costs play a lot into that, but if the best we can expect from PC games in a couple of years is Flash games, PC Gaming as a hobby's in trouble.

It looks like you're still seeing this from an "all or nothing" type of deal. I don't think anyone is arguing that all DRM must be ditched. What most people want is a reasonable compromise that will have a minimal impact on legit customers.

[Jetherik]

I really don't care about DRM. I don't copy and if I go on vacation, I will be with my family so I will not want to bring any games along. If I have to play a game on the computer on a family vacation, it means that I did not do enough with my family... If for some reason there was no Internet connection, then I must be where there is no electricity and therefore don't need a computer. If the DRM works where I don't notice it, great. If it interfers with me installing it on an upgrade, I will care. But otherwise, what are you guys hollering about and how does this really effect you? All of the scenerios, most of them are far fetched. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Though, I wonder, how many people pirated Stardock's Sins of a Solar Empire?

[Farsight]

For most users, isn't thisa LESS obtrusive form of copy protection?

Option A) Game phones home in the bacground every 10 days
or
Option B) Game checks a CD every time it is run

It seems to me that (A) is an improvement. Install, put the CD away, and play. The average user shouldn't even know the game has copy protection.

Now if they screw up their implementation and deny legitimate owners their ability to play the game, then they deserve to be grilled for it. But the idea itself seems like a step forward to me.

[Evil Avatar]

If you want to encourage good games on the PC, vote with your wallet. BUY good games, and DON'T buy games that are crap.

And how does "Good game where the publisher is trying to fuck you in the ass." fit into that equation?

[dbh1973]

I respect a company's desire to protect it's product and sales, but to take these kind of measures are absurd. It's why I don't use Steam, and why I won't be buying either game. And I need to purchase a copy of Sins of a Solar Empire, to show Stardock my support.

I really really wanna play Mass Effect though. Perhaps a 360 is in my future...

[twophayse]

Hey, Steam and Xbox Live are just copy protection in sheep's clothing. If you gave your credit card info to either of those trojan applications, accepting a little overt copyright enforcement for free should be easy. It could be worse, like Starforce on Splinter Cell. If this was Rainbow Six, Call of Duty, Splinter Cell, KOTOR, or GTA everyone would grin and bear it. Since this is an unknown quantity riding the hype train, all the bandwagoners immediately jump ship until launch day when it'll be Bioshock all over again. Once DVDs and Blu-Ray die, the free lunch is over, so enjoy the freedom of choice while it lasts.

[workerbee]

Option A) Game phones home in the bacground every 10 days
or
Option B) Game checks a CD every time it is run


Knowing publishers, I fully expect to have to deal with Option A + Option B, along with a limitation on the number of installations I can do (which, although understandable, is a pain in the ass once you've hit it).

Seeing as I would want to install it on my gaming computer, my work computer, and my theater computer (for the big screen experience), I've probably already hit the limit. And I still have more computers in my house to go, all of which would be used by me or my wife only...

[SilentScreams]

People talking about not buying a massively anticipated game because of something that will be a minor inconvenience at best?

Over-react much?

[The_Reckoning]

People talking about not buying a massively anticipated game because of something that will be a minor inconvenience at best?

Over-react much?

Maybe for us with broadband, it's a small inconvinience. But think about those without the internet from whatever complications. Think about when your internet goes down.

Not to mention if their servers are offline.

[Vyzov]

... to handle my request... When did the edit button disappear?

I still see the edit button... and can edit all my posts.. Strange.

[Vyzov]

Ahh, only in certain forums. I see.

[51|RandoM]

And how does "Good game where the publisher is trying to fuck you in the ass." fit into that equation?

Because yeah, this is clearly a case of the publisher's only desire being to "fuck you in the ass."

And all along I thought this was about copy protection...

[Johan]

Because yeah, this is clearly a case of the publisher's only desire being to "fuck you in the ass."

And all along I thought this was about copy protection...

Aren't they synonymous? :D

[51|RandoM]

Aren't they synonymous? :D

Only for people with a very limited vocabulary.

[asimonk]

And this is the MMO model. If only a solid game which required the player to be online could succeed (http://www.blizzard.com/us/press/070724.html).

Yes, DRM is pretty horrendous. It sucks. Its bullshit. I hate to say it, but Random is right, DRM is not about preventing piracy most of the time. It really is about controlling the content.

I love the people who are saying "Fuck this game. I'm not going to buy it. I'm going to pirate it." You people, are assholes. Either suck it up and play online; I'm guessing your PC might be connected to the internet. Or get some goddamn convictions and don't play the game. This "I'm not going to pay for it, but I will want to play it" eat-your-cake-and-have-it-too mentality is pretty much the reason that paranoid execs love the idea of DRM. All this does is fuel the argument for more intrusive DRM and fuel the idea that people want to play the game, but don't want to pay for it.

[Johan]

Only for people with a very limited vocabulary.

That's exactly why I figured you thought so!

You really are a humorless little yellow, aren't you?

Either suck it up and play online; I'm guessing your PC might be connected to the internet. Or get some goddamn convictions and don't play the game.

I could hug you. Preach on. :)

[reimomo]

If the product requires online validation, OR a disc in the drive after that 10 day period expires, I'm ok with that as well.

THIS

If my ISP is fucked up I want to be able to play my legitimate, exclusively singleplayer game regardless of some bullshit DRM. So require the key checks, but forgo the server check if the disc is in the drive.

Quick! Everyone who can download NOCD cracks but doesn't know how to pirate games raise your hands!

[Bahamut]

Well, I had an eye towards this game, but the implementation of this draconian DRM guarantees that I won't be buying this game. I'm not sure what EA was thinking, but if they want to inconvenience legitimate buyers in a way like this, then they can go fuck themselves. This basically means that I can't play this game if I come upon catastrophic situations where I have no internet (there was a period of about a month where I lost internet almost completely, excepting a few seconds at a time).

I know piracy is a huge problem, but if they're going to resort to a method like this, which will most likely get cracked in the short run, I'll take my money and buy a game that doesn't do this.

[firecut]

Lame. I'll just wait on the 360 version.

Forget that. PC/Mac/PS3/360/DS/PSP version are not getting my money as I will not support this sort of trash being imposed on PC gamers. They can take this game, that I have been eagerly awaiting, and stick up their collective ass.

This is the equivalent of going out on a date with the seemingly hottest chick at school, getting her home and up to her bedroom, fooling around, getting nekkid and pulling off her panties to find....a huge boner between her legs. Game over.

[Azriel77]

You know, People who support this is missing the big picture.

1, not everybody has internet
2, there WILL be times when you want to play and you have no internet connection(like vacation)
3. What happens when EA shuts down the server for any reason? Say, EA goes bankrupt, now your game is completely useless.
4. More people are going to pirate the game now,hell the pirated version will probably be better.
5. People like ME who have had the game prordered for TWO FREAKING YEARS, are now going to get a refund for the game.
6. Hope nobody has any plans to upgrade or reinstall your OS after you install this or it will stop working thanks to the limited activations.
7. Its ads ANOTHER black eye to EA(Evil ALWAYS), they just seem determined to piss on the customer fan base every chance they can.

[Serapth]

Forget that. PC/Mac/PS3/360/DS/PSP version are not getting my money as I will not support this sort of trash being imposed on PC gamers. They can take this game, that I have been eagerly awaiting, and stick up their collective ass.

This is the equivalent of going out on a date with the seemingly hottest chick at school, getting her home and up to her bedroom, fooling around, getting nekkid and pulling off her panties to find....a huge boner between her legs. Game over.

Ahhhh... geek rage is so cute.

[Blog]

Call my corner of the world wacky, but there are more than a few rural towns around here that don't have broadband or any other "always-on" net connection. I know several gamers in these towns, at least one of which is very interested in Spore.

His net access is spotty at best, and when it does work he has to fire up his modem and tie up his phone line. Which involves booting his teenage daughter off the phone. Etc, etc.

This type of 'protection' will be a huge pain in the ass for him, and probably not worth it for the few hours of game time he ekes out every few weeks.

[firecut]

Ahhhh... geek rage is so cute.

Voting with my wallet is the cutest way I could think to let them know I don't care for their packaging strategy. ;)

[dbh1973]

I'm not going to pirate either game. I'm going to exercise my consumer right to not purchase something. EA, Bioware, and Maxis are not going to get any of my money for these games. Forget console and PC versions. Somehow, I'll just have to find something else to play.

[MelbaToast]

I'll just download a copy of it if I actually buy the game. Save the hassle.

[Glucose]

What? You guys are debating buying a game from EA? DRM is the least of your issues!

[Asmodan]

My problem with this whole thing is that if a company is going to treat me like a criminal what is my motivation NOT to be one?

Anyone with a shred of common sense knows this isn't going to do more than prove a minor inconvenience for the pirates. And I don't even know if I would put it that way; in general the people that do the pirating and cracking *have fun* doing what they are doing. Throwing challenges like this at them just keeps them interested.

Spore, like the Sims, is going to be a broadly appealing game unless I'm very mistaken. It will be something non-traditional gamers play, people like your mothers or aunts. People who very possibly don't have an internet connection. I know at least a half dozen people who played the Sims who have, at best, a dial-up internet connection. What is the solution for these people?

DRM is intrusive and pointless. It doesn't stop the pirates and it sure as hell doesn't stop casual copying. Anyone that would think of casually pirating a game probably knows about Pirate Bay and it's ilk. Even if they don't it takes only a single search with Google to turn up dozens of torrents for almost anything you could want. All it does is create expense for the developer and ill will from the consumer.

If they could come up with DRM that actually worked and didn't cause problems for legitimate customers I'd be all for it. But as it is that just isn't the way things work.

[Bad_Buddha]

I remember the outcry that erupted when Bioshock announced their draconian DRM methods. Good to see that nobody bought that game!

[Serapth]

My problem with this whole thing is that if a company is going to treat me like a criminal what is my motivation NOT to be one?

Are you angry at stores that have security cameras?

[Variable Gear]

Why do stores have walls? To protect their valuable products from thieves.

[ElektroDragon]

This HAS to be done. I say secure it, lock it down like Fort Knox. It's the only way to save the PC games industry. If Spore bombs like Crysis due to piracy, it's over. Thank you, BitTorrent. Look, I can totally understand broke students not wanting to pay $800 for Photoshop or Maya or something, but not buying a $50 game when its your main hobby is just lame, lame, LAME! That kind of behavior was never respected even among the 3lit3 of the 90s BBS days! Do not engage in lamer behavior. Thank you.

[ÜberJumper]

And how does "Good game where the publisher is trying to fuck you in the ass." fit into that equation?

You know perfectly well that the publisher's not trying to "fuck you in the ass".

As I said earlier in the thread, the publishers are fully entitled to attempt to prevent people from using their product who haven't paid for it. Yes DRM *can* get in the way of the legitimate purchaser, but you know perfectly well that's not their intent. They intend for people who purchase their product and/or service to be the only people who use their product/service.

It's like criminals in jail. You have bars and locks and guards to keep them in place until they've served their time. If the bars and locks and guards weren't there, the convicted criminals would run off.

Obviously crinimals in jail are there because they're the ones not following the rules of society. Take for example things like donation cans in convienence stores. Some people put money in them, and a very small percentage see those donation cans stuffed with money and steal them. Or examples of stores in small towns where people use the honour system, the store owner's not around, so folks leave money on the counter for the goods they purchase. Some people in the community where those stores are try to take advantage of that.

The same generally proves true with copy protection. If you have no copy protection some people will take advantage of the publisher and simply copy the game for their friends. Sometimes, it just takes a little justification for someone to think it's "OK" to pirate a game. Here's a hint, it's never ok.

So publishers are trying to find a happy medium. Where their legitimate purchasers can enjoy their products without DRM getting in the way. Steam's great! Single sign on, and you get access to all your games. Company of Heroes works great with a single sign on to get access to your product (and DVD in drive check if you don't have a net connection).

At the end of the day, the publishers want to be paid for their product. That's entirely fair don't you think? Does anyone here really believe that if someone provides a service that you should get it for free? Would you want to be treated like that if you were say a doctor that never got paid? If you never got paid you'd quickly stop providing service to the people who never paid you right? Well guess what, if the PC Gaming market is somewhere were the providers of products and services don't get paid, they won't sell to that market. So now we see them trying new things, like attempting new models (advertising or micropayment supported) to try and get revenue without people actually paying with cash.

At the end of the day, if the game is good, and you want to play it, then buy it, don't pirate it. If you want to play it, but it has DRM you don't agree with, then DO NOT buy it OR pirate it and then play it.

[Asmodan]

Are you angry at stores that have security cameras?

No, but that's not the correct analogy here. I don't mind a one time check to verify a legit purchase such as how Stardock works their deal. CD-Keys work just fine for me. That's the store with a security camera checking to make sure my purchase is legit.

This is more akin to the store then putting security cameras in your house to periodically check up on you and make sure that you still aren't stealing.

But instead of making analogies explain to me where I'm wrong. Show me where DRM has actually stopped pirates. I think you'll be hard pressed to do so because I can't think of a game, other than subscription based games like MMO's, that have had any luck in keeping their product un-pirated. As I stated (and you apparently ignored) if a company can come up with a form of DRM that actually works and doesn't create problems for a legitimate customer I'd be all for it. What they do now doesn't meet either of those requirements.

[Wraith]

No, but that's not the correct analogy here. I don't mind a one time check to verify a legit purchase such as how Stardock works their deal. CD-Keys work just fine for me. That's the store with a security camera checking to make sure my purchase is legit.

This is more akin to the store then putting security cameras in your house to periodically check up on you and make sure that you still aren't stealing.

But instead of making analogies explain to me where I'm wrong. Show me where DRM has actually stopped pirates. I think you'll be hard pressed to do so because I can't think of a game, other than subscription based games like MMO's, that have had any luck in keeping their product un-pirated. As I stated (and you apparently ignored) if a company can come up with a form of DRM that actually works and doesn't create problems for a legitimate customer I'd be all for it. What they do now doesn't meet either of those requirements.I agree with this. DRM that prevents illegal copies (whether from dedicated pirates or casual copiers or whatever) is all well and good, but if it limits when or how I can play my legally acquired game, that bugs me.

[XxSATANxX]

You know perfectly well that the publisher's not trying to "fuck you in the ass".

Just feels that way

At the end of the day, if the game is good, and you want to play it, then buy it, don't pirate it. If you want to play it, but it has DRM you don't agree with, then DO NOT buy it OR pirate it and then play it.

Uber

I knew I was going to buy Sins of the Solar Empire so a quick trip over to
****** *** and I had the whole game. LOVED IT! Not Homeworld but still a ton of fun. After it was announced the game was selling so well I felt bad about not getting over to the store and actually buying the game. So I get in my car and dash over to the store to purchase. It's marked down to $14.99 WTF??? Were talking like 3 weeks here since launch. I bought 4 copies and gave them to friends.

I'm not sure but I think the demo came out the day I bought the game.

So as a PC Gamer:

1. A decent demo means I buy.
2. DRM means I wait to buy get a better price and DL the work around.
3. Demo and No DRM means I buy NOW!

Seems a version of that worked for stardock?

[Android8675]

I'm all for developers and publishers doing what they can to prevent piracy. However, this method of DRM just convinced me not to purchase this game.

I understand the arguement, it doesn't stop piracy, it hurts only those who pay for the game, but it DOES keep the honest people honest. Keeps those who don't know about piracy from taking their games to friends houses, installing it and "forgetting" to remove it.

It's bullshit. I think having compelling online material that requires you need to have your own account that you can only activate with a CD-Key is enough, espically for Spore. The problem is, big companies have big "Bottom-Line" guys who read "reports" that state these things help keep piracy numbers down, which the "soldiers" in the trenches realize is total bullhockey, but were just soldiers, if we wanna fire the guns we gotta follow the orders without question.

What's nice about games is EA can patch them to not require any of this stuff at anytime, so in 20 years when Spore turns "Classic", by then it should be a non-issue.

I also can't believe you wouldn't buy the game just because of this minor inconvience. Maybe you haven't read some of the reviews or gotten some "hands on" time, but as someone who has played around with the creature editor, I think you're a fool.

game is gonna rock, but it may not be your cup of tea, so i'll respectfully say, that's cool. Not everyone is into playing with dolls. I totally get that. :)

[Serapth]

But instead of making analogies explain to me where I'm wrong. Show me where DRM has actually stopped pirates.

Me, I bought Pools of Radiance because I needed the code wheel to play it. Trust me, you don't want to go back to those draconian systems.

[Voodoo]

I see a few people wondering why people are humping the head of EA while not humping the head of Valve. Well, it is quite simple really... The DRM measures that Valve uses with Steam is for the most part completely transparent, while this measure using lovely SecureROM has had a historically non-transparent experience.

If you want to protect your game at distribution, use a system that is not a hassle to your customer.

Also... PC Developers might want to begin re-examining the whole return of investment part of business.

[Virtuoso]

Here's a scenario...

You're a big Spore fan (like, HUGE). You bought the game, registered it, etc., played it ever four of five days so as to not run afoul of EA's anti-piracy methods...

Then you decide you're going to go on vacation for two weeks. To somewhere isolated where you can take a break from life and all its inherent woes. You have a great time on vacation...

You arrive home and then have to call EA Support to re-activate your LEGITIMATE version of a game you've already paid retail price for!

Awesome job, EA.

And to think, people actually believed EA's bullshit about being more consumer-friendly.

Somebody probably already explained why you are wrong, but Im not gonna read through 9 pages so:

You dont have to call ea tech support when you get home, it just rechecks the next time you use it, like steam.

Reading ftw.

[Asmodan]

Me, I bought Pools of Radiance because I needed the code wheel to play it. Trust me, you don't want to go back to those draconian systems.

Nothing that a copier and an X-acto knife can't fix. I knew plenty of people who had copied code wheels, or reference books for stuff like Wastelands or Dragon Wars.

[Android8675]

Me, I bought Pools of Radiance because I needed the code wheel to play it. Trust me, you don't want to go back to those draconian systems.

So without the code wheel you would of been content with your pirated version? Sounds to me like the draconian system worked on you.

Personally I'd LOVE to have a code wheel for Spore. I always thought the code wheel was the coolest in-package "Freelie"

Bring back Infocom! Bring back the golden era of gaming when it wasn't mainstream and our joys and passions were ours alone and inside jokes were truely "inside".

/sigh. *Nostalgic Mode Activated*

[Jotoco]

If you dont like the DRM just say astalavista to the game, because they are only trying to keep the pirates at bay not crack your head open.

PS: I still don't support piracy, it's just that I felt like writting it. Ok?

[Stooby]

I understand the need to stop casual copiers. Old versions of SecuROM that just required the disc in the drive works for this. Anyone who is above a casual copier will not be fazed by this copy protection at all. So, why go to these ridiculous lengths?

The problem is, despite all evidence to the contrary, publishers still think they can stop piracy. It isn't going to happen though. The only way to prevent piracy is to require a cd-key and have most of the fun things in your game require online functionality. That still doesn't completely prevent piracy, you can find hacked servers for many MMOs. Some of the hacked servers have brand new content with all kinds of cool dungeons and stuff on them.

Why waste money on this crap. Why hurt the honest consumer.

Lets just go back to standard old school cd checks. They will work just as effectively at stopping casual copiers. If a person knows how to get a No-CD already, there is no new protection provided by this new system.

[Goronmon]

If Spore bombs like Crysis due to piracy, it's over.Actually, Crysis sold very well. The main problem with the PC game industry is that the console industry is more lucrative. Even if the market for PC gaming grows, it won't grow as fast as the console market will, so the perception is that it's a losing niche.

[gspot]

See, Devs know piracy is inevitable. Most DRM is to stop day 0 piracy (some people say its piracy before release, but it is also applied to the period directly after release where revues are high), but this is going to piss off people so much it might actually encourage early piracy just so people can play, go on vacation, and come back expecting their game to work.

[wyeast]

Ok, I'm an idiot. I just tried to submit this. :p (ignore that, reds. I'm a dink :o)

This is all just a front for EA to enable "shutting down the servers" on a game just like their multiplayer franchises. "Oh gee, Mass Effect 2: The New Cruelty is out. Go buy that one guys. *bip*" :mad: :p

[UglyPimp]

Wow, why don't they just put it on Steam? It's the right thing to do, and a tasty way to do it.

[Bahamut]

Wow, why don't they just put it on Steam? It's the right thing to do, and a tasty way to do it.

They probably don't want to give up profits to another company. Plus it would increase Valve's influence on the market of selling games - the last thing a big corporation wants to do is become more dependent on another company unless they get something for the long term in return.

[thomasc]

Are you angry at stores that have security cameras?

More like an EA rep coming to your house every 10 days, "Hi, still got the game", "Let me see the cd key thanks", "You haven't borrowed it to one of your friends right?".

[Hecubus]

More like an EA rep coming to your house every 10 days, "Hi, still got the game", "Let me see the cd key thanks", "You haven't borrowed it to one of your friends right?".

Because everyone knows that happens. In fact, I had an EA rep from the newly minted Electronic Arts Department of Homeland Security storm my house (with a gang of jack-booted of EA thugs) to threaten me with death and litigation (in that order actually.) :rolleyes:

DRM, SchmeeRM... as I said in some other thread, "DRM has never bothered me. It's never spied on me while I sleep. It hasn't picked my pocket. So far, it hasn't stolen my identity, kidnapped my dog, or made an attempt on my life. And it still hasn't made me less free than I was 10, 20, or 30 years ago. Like Bush-derangement-syndrome, Wal-Mart, and "Big Oil," DRM is the tech nerds boogie-man of the modern age."

[Johan]

DRM, SchmeeRM... as I said in some other thread, "DRM has never bothered me....it still hasn't made me less free than I was 10, 20, or 30 years ago.

Yeah, right. (http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2007/10/riaa_wins_22000.html)

That's DRM taken into the courtroom to destroy people, right there.

Go get 'em, RIAA! (http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2008/04/riaa-sues-homeless-man-makes-sewer.html)

[Hecubus]

Yeah, right. (http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2007/10/riaa_wins_22000.html)

That's DRM taken into the courtroom to destroy people, right there.

Go get 'em, RIAA! (http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2008/04/riaa-sues-homeless-man-makes-sewer.html)

I was referring to me. Which is why I said "me."

But here's how you can make this applicable to you.
Wanna know a good way to keep the RIAA off your ass? Don't do anything illegal, like download music from mininova or piratebay or your super-secret-bit-torrent site that no one knows about except you 'cause you're so damn cool. Pretty simple really. Oh... and make sure you're homeless so the RIAA can't locate you.

[Johan]

I was referring to me. Which is why I said "me."

Yes, because as long as it happens to anyone and everyone other than you (you mentioned "everyone" by the way), then you're safe! :rolleyes:

But here's how you can make this applicable to you.

I'm waiting with baited breath.

Wanna know a good way to keep the RIAA off your ass? Don't do anything illegal

That's right. (http://blog.wired.com/music/2007/07/judge-riaa-owes.html)

Nothing to fear if you do nothing wrong. (http://p2pnet.net/story/6134)

I could go on and on with more specific cases, but why bother? You've obviously hit upon the solution; do no evil! :D DRM and lawsuits only affect the guilty!

[Hecubus]

Yes, because as long as it happens to anyone and everyone other than you (you mentioned "everyone" by the way), then you're safe! :rolleyes:

Yeah, and the "everyone" you mention was referenced to a paranoid comment about EA reps coming to your house to ensure you owned the game you were playing. It was not referencing my comment about me.

I'm waiting with baited breath.

I'm sure, which is why you continue to paste "news" stories about people participating in illegal activities who "boo-hoo" when they get caught by the big, bad RIAA.

Nothing to fear if you do nothing wrong.

Wow! Thank you for agreeing with me.

I could go on and on with more specific cases, but why bother? You've obviously hit upon the solution; do no evil! :D DRM and lawsuits only affect the guilty!

No, please! Do go on. Do continue to reference specific cases of people being persecuted for their misdeeds, and stories of always victimized homeless people who can't be found. You'll convince me yet. Just keep including links. I'll get it sooner or later. :rolleyes:

[Johan]

Do continue to reference specific cases of people being persecuted for their misdeeds

Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. There have been, and are, numerous cases of people being harassed by the RIAA, which is basically a racketeering organization using the threat of lawsuits as a club to pound people into financial submission.

I'm glad to see you're a champion of the little guy, and of the concept of innocence until proven guilty.

Here's a site to help you in your quest for a clue! (http://www.weallcanread.com/)

which is why you continue to paste "news" stories about people participating in illegal activities who "boo-hoo" when they get caught by the big, bad RIAA.

Wow...just wow! READ, dude...READ! Inform yourself!

Wrongly accused by the RIAA. (http://blog.wired.com/music/2007/07/judge-riaa-owes.html)

Another individual wrongly accused by the RIAA. (http://p2pnet.net/story/6134)

[BlackPete]

I'm sure, which is why you continue to paste "news" stories about people participating in illegal activities who "boo-hoo" when they get caught by the big, bad RIAA.

Yep, those grandmothers were so obviously criminals for pirating! The fact they didn't own computers is irrelevant, they MUST stop pirating!

And the toddlers too. You can't trust those baby faces. Obviously guilty, all of 'em!

[Banacek]

Johan and a n00b? It's like finding gold...

[H.Bogard]

*sigh* I thought he'd left?

[Goronmon]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2008/20080509.jpg

Awesome, haha.

[Wraith]

[quote]Not cyborgs. Robots.I'm glad they made that distinction, at least.

[Wraith]

Not cyborgs. Robots.I'm glad they made that distinction, at least.

[Wma]

Looks like they decided to drop the 10 day requirement:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/52618

Q: If the game isn't going to require an authentication every 10 days, will it ever require re-authentication?

A: Only if the player chooses to download new game content

Electronic Arts also released a statement mentioning that Spore's copy protection will be similarly changed to allow for offline play, only requiring validation on a patch or game content update.

The publisher further noted that neither game will require players to have the disc in their computer in order to play or validate the game.

[Hecubus]

Johan and a n00b? It's like finding gold...

Yeah, it's cool to kiss the ass of lifeless morons who have the time to post over 17,000 fucking posts on a video game forum. Good to know you have a mentor.

[Hecubus]

Wow...just wow! READ, dude...READ! Inform yourself!

Dude! Wow! Yeah, I read! Wow! Dude! I know all about the evils of the RIAA! Another boogyman, dude! Wow! Don't UL/DL music from public forums! Dude! As you said, do no evil! Dude! Wow... just wow! Dude. Informed on the issue, dude! Made up my mind on it! We don't agree! Dude! You think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong! Dude! Just... wow!

[Blog]

Yeah, it's cool to kiss the ass of lifeless morons who have the time to post over 17,000 fucking posts on a video game forum. Good to know you have a mentor.You're confusing enjoying a good show with kissing ass. They are two very different things. You'll see...

[Bahamut]

Dude! Wow! Yeah, I read! Wow! Dude! I know all about the evils of the RIAA! Another boogyman, dude! Wow! Don't UL/DL music from public forums! Dude! As you said, do no evil! Dude! Wow... just wow! Dude. Informed on the issue, dude! Made up my mind on it! We don't agree! Dude! You think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong! Dude! Just... wow!

Except you don't understand the whole reason people complain about DRM. It's about the loss of how you get to use media you paid for as a consumer, not whether you actually do anything illegal. The fact that organizations like the RIAA will go to great lengths in order to prosecute people, even with questionable/illegal methods, shows how their subsidaries' attempt to shovel DRMed media down the consumers throat has been backfiring. After all, once you concede DRM as the norm, what's to stop them from not printing physical media, and then releasing media allowing something as 1 play before it disables itself? Whereas the alternative situation, when DRM is not the norm, you still have physical media dominating, and you can play it as many times as you'd like.

The whole hatred of the RIAA and ilk is about consumer prerogative vs. corporate greed.

[Johan]

Dude! Wow! Yeah, I read! Wow! Dude!

Holy cow! Are you a two-year-old from California? :D I'm so sad I missed that reply all weekend! I'd bet your mom would be proud today that her son is...a freaking moron! :D

BTW: You can disagree all you like, but denying the facts as you did reveals you to be an idiot. The FACT from those links is that innocent people have been targeted by the RIAA in a racketeering attempt to pound them into financial submission. They've been busted on it a number of times.

Get your shit straight.

[Shadowstorm]

It's not possible to reason with people like Hecubus.

Moving along...