Additional Xbox 360 details revealed [Archive]

netcraazzy

09-01-2005, 02:38 PM

The fact that DVDs can be played without the remote control and in progressive scan is damn cool.

To this day I still cannot play dvds on my xbox because I never could justify buying that dumb remote to unlock the feature. This is good news us folks who want to play dvds on their 360 once in a while but don't want to fork over $30 just to do it. I think the $400 bundle comes with a remote anyway so I guess it's not as big of a deal as it was with the original xbox.

sickfallout

09-01-2005, 02:47 PM

Zeal

09-01-2005, 02:50 PM

Well, at least it has progressive scan.

Xerxes

09-01-2005, 02:51 PM

Does the system come with the remote.

It was easy to justify buying a remote for me. I'm not a fan of playing with a damn controller to play movies. L = play R = Stop, BAH...

normyk

09-01-2005, 02:54 PM

You can plug in a keyboard but this is for text input only - including in massively-multiplayer games. You can't use it to play games and that was a design choice.
Ow. I've been a bit of a fence-sitter as far as the 360 vs PS3 thing was concerned but today has changed a lot for me.
You will definitely need a hard disk to play Xbox 1 games.
That I find funny. I thought that that would be obvious but I have heard multiple EB employees telling customers that they won't need the hard drive and that xbox games would just play. All xbox games too.

Bushi

09-01-2005, 03:00 PM

That is just *ok* and about what I would have expected. Dam Cool would have been if your xbox 360 was doing dvd scaling so that your are getting true pixel matching at to your TV. Without that it's a bit like saying whoop, I have Porch and it can *gasp* get into first gear. Just IMO but MS totally wimped out on the DVD functionality and clearly has not a fucking clue what AV people are going to be looking for out of it. Course maybe it's all part of there evil upgrade plan for when HD or blue ray really gets going and they can try to sell it as an add on or some BS. 3 fucking processers and no upscaling? LOL, will see if sony can be bothered to do better.

bapenguin

09-01-2005, 03:01 PM

Does the system come with the remote.

It was easy to justify buying a remote for me. I'm not a fan of playing with a damn controller to play movies. L = play R = Stop, BAH...

Yeah, the premium pack does for alimited time. The cool thing is (i believe) is the remote is IR and RF. So it's not line of site. Can anyone confirm this?

RandomViolence

09-01-2005, 03:02 PM

That I find funny. I thought that that would be obvious but I have heard multiple EB employees telling customers that they won't need the hard drive and that xbox games would just play. All xbox games too.

Those EB employees would then qualify for the 'dumb as shit' award, and should be promptly notified so they can collect their medal.

EvilBob46

09-01-2005, 03:07 PM

Good interview, highlights a lot of cool features.

I still won't buy one of these at launch though. Hell no. Gears of War and the good stuff won't be out till 2006 anyway, not to mention that the price will probably go down some when the PS3 comes out.

Tricky Thumb

09-01-2005, 03:36 PM

BLADES.

Hold on, I need to go back to the Evil Avatar front BLADE. Oh man I sure sound cool when I say it like that.

JazGalaxy

09-01-2005, 03:46 PM

I call upon the great powers of flame-igniting!

"Wow, Microsoft figured something out that Sony did about 4 years ago! T3H Innovators!!!" (regarding the remote thing)

Gentlemen, start your internet anger.

Actually anything past, like, second generation PS2's required you to buy hte remote to play DVDs because of an "update" that came on the memory card. So, you don't have much of a point. If sony figured anything out, they "unlearned" it which is far more stupid than never learning something in the first place.

Also, the reason the DVD capabillity didn't come in the XBOX to start with was because Microsoft didn't want to have to pay the licensing fee to be selling a "dvd" player. By selling the controller seperately they saved us xbox gamers and themselves a little money. I thought it was smart of them.

sinclair122

09-01-2005, 04:10 PM

The fact that DVDs can be played without the remote control and in progressive scan is damn cool.

Shouldn't this be standard? It's pretty damn stupid

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

09-01-2005, 04:18 PM

Progressive scan DVD playback is frankly less than the minimum I expect from an "HD" console -- even more recent models of the PS2 support it. There's no reason I can think of for a system with the 360's processing power to not support HD upconversion for standard resolution DVDs; I'm guessing MS is saving that for an update somewhere down the line.

Pumped'Up

09-01-2005, 04:36 PM

The fact that DVDs can be played without the remote control and in progressive scan is damn cool.
Damn cool for this stupid shit on a next gen system?????

The PStwo is then by logic fuck'n-A damn cooler than the 360 as it has both features, and it came out a year ago!

Crono

09-01-2005, 04:39 PM

To me it is sad that we get excited about being able to use a DVD without a remote or progressive scan, simply because as customers we should have expected this from the get-go, not some bullshit money making routine like XBox did the first time around just to watch movies. At this time in the technological-timeline we should expect a lot of these features without excitement.

codswallop

09-01-2005, 04:57 PM

"Your "reputation" stat is based on your activities online. Rather like an eBay rating, people who have encountered you can rate you positively or negatively, and this is reflected in your reputation. "

Finally
If it's anything like Battlefield 2 and it's "punishing" for teamkills, everytime someone loses to you, you'll get a negative rating.

nonchalance

09-01-2005, 04:59 PM

Actually anything past, like, second generation PS2's required you to buy hte remote to play DVDs because of an "update" that came on the memory card. So, you don't have much of a point. If sony figured anything out, they "unlearned" it which is far more stupid than never learning something in the first place.

I got the most recent PS2, which doesn't require the remote.
Take the fanboy hat off for a second and tell the truth.

Two things about this news, from my viewpoint.
The remote - DVD issue is cool, but it's really a tiny percentage of the article. There's much much more interesting stuff in the article, and some of it is very very cool.
For example, why aren't we discussing this?
Cross-platform development between Windows and Xbox is being actively pursued - in the future, Microsoft hopes that people will be able to play games against each other using either platform.

Or this?
The Jeff Minter-created visualisation tool for music accepts input from all control pads and the video camera, allowing you to create various effects on-screen.

Achilles

09-01-2005, 05:23 PM

If it's anything like Battlefield 2 and it's "punishing" for teamkills, everytime someone loses to you, you'll get a negative rating.A couple of problems with that system that hopefully won't be in the Live version. If the person who is team killed has to change spawn locations a map will cover up the fact that they've been team killed. This ties into the second problem which is that if the 'forgive for team kill' option times out (probably because you didn't see it or because it was covered up by a different voting selection) you automatically punish the person. I punish about half the time just because I don't notice when I've been TKed.

But yeah some people are just dicks and will always give bad feedback, hopefully they'll take that into account in the Live system.

Babbster

09-01-2005, 05:24 PM

There's no reason I can think of for a system with the 360's processing power to not support HD upconversion for standard resolution DVDs; I'm guessing MS is saving that for an update somewhere down the line.

I can think of one: It's pointless. Apart from fixed-resolution displays like LCD, DLP and plasma, it's far better to simply display DVDs using 480p. Adding more pixels means adding more artifacts, and if you have a set with a 480p display mode (which includes virtually all CRT-based displays, direct-view and projection) it's best to stick with that. Heck, even those fixed-resolution displays have internal scaling which is probably better than something added as an afterthought to a game console.

Goronmon

09-01-2005, 05:24 PM

If it's anything like Battlefield 2 and it's "punishing" for teamkills, everytime someone loses to you, you'll get a negative rating.
Actually, if its anything like Battlefield 2, you'll get a negative rating from everyone, including the people you played with.

KamaItachi

09-01-2005, 05:25 PM

The System blade offers greater control over your individual settings. You can specify, for example, that you prefer to invert the right analogue stick camera control and this will then be picked up on in any game you play.

Good.

iPods are detected by default, as are PSPs, and by our watch it took about 2 or 3 seconds for the Xbox 360 to notice they were there. With an iPod plugged in you can play music direct through the Dashboard software, with visualisations, or you can play a slideshow of photographs

Plus Good.

Microsoft also plans to have kiosks available - presumably in game stores and other public locations - where you can download content. Whether this will be to the detachable hard disk itself or a memory card is a detail that wasn't clarified.

Double Plus Good!

Also, $279.99 for the high end system? That's really not that bad at all.

Goronmon

09-01-2005, 05:27 PM

nonchalance

09-01-2005, 05:29 PM

Also, $279.99 for the high end system? That's really not that bad at all.

Euros.
Not dollars.

The US pricing is $299 for the low-end, $399 for the high-end.

In Australia, that'll be $499 and $649, at a rough guess.

Dirty Harry

09-01-2005, 05:41 PM

Euros.
Not dollars.

The US pricing is $299 for the low-end, $399 for the high-end.

In Australia, that'll be $499 and $649, at a rough guess.
its canada thats probally gonna be 599 and 799.

KamaItachi

09-01-2005, 05:42 PM

Euros.
Not dollars.

The US pricing is $299 for the low-end, $399 for the high-end.

In Australia, that'll be $499 and $649, at a rough guess.

Balls...

I'll probably just end up getting a US import then seeing as the release has been pushed back here and no pricing plans announced.

Tyrant

09-01-2005, 05:44 PM

its canada thats probally gonna be 599 and 799.

Nope, it's going to be $500CDN for the bundle and $400 for the core. Considering that the Xbox originally launched at $450, I'd say we got a pretty good deal on our hands due to the lower value of the US dollar.

Adewade

09-01-2005, 05:47 PM

Nah, Canada high end will be about 500$. The exchange is pretty darn good these days (because the American dollar is pretty darn bad).

Tyrant

09-01-2005, 05:48 PM

Dam Cool would have been if your xbox 360 was doing dvd scaling so that your are getting true pixel matching at to your TV.

The large majority of Xbox360 owners will probably end up getting true pixel matching with their SDTVs...

Without that it's a bit like saying whoop, I have Porch and it can *gasp* get into first gear. Just IMO but MS totally wimped out on the DVD functionality and clearly has not a fucking clue what AV people are going to be looking for out of it. Course maybe it's all part of there evil upgrade plan for when HD or blue ray really gets going and they can try to sell it as an add on or some BS. 3 fucking processers and no upscaling? LOL, will see if sony can be bothered to do better.

Ah yes, all the videophiles I know look to videogame consoles for high quality DVD playback.

sickfallout

09-01-2005, 06:01 PM

My plan worked, mwahahaha...

mister_slim

09-01-2005, 06:22 PM

When ripping music to the hard drive, album information is now stored on the HDD, with a huge amount there by default and more available from an online source - presumably something like CDDB, which will be familiar to people who rip their own CDs already.
Nice. I hope the 360 will play nice with my USB drive.
Actually anything past, like, second generation PS2's required you to buy hte remote to play DVDs because of an "update" that came on the memory card. So, you don't have much of a point. If sony figured anything out, they "unlearned" it which is far more stupid than never learning something in the first place.
What?

Dirty Harry

09-01-2005, 06:24 PM

Nope, it's going to be $500CDN for the bundle and $400 for the core. Considering that the Xbox originally launched at $450, I'd say we got a pretty good deal on our hands due to the lower value of the US dollar.
I was talking about the ps3 actually, because the ps2 was 500 or so a few months after release.

nonchalance

09-01-2005, 06:31 PM

Ah yes, all the videophiles I know look to videogame consoles for high quality DVD playback.

That's a really good point, for those bitching about the lack of upscaling.

Sony's the one that's going to have to go with this stuff, because they're positioning as an awesome DVD/Blu-Ray player + console.

TrackZero

09-01-2005, 06:43 PM

Things that caught my eye:

"The console can be switched on and off wirelessly using the Media Remote control or the wireless game controller."

FINALLY!

"Wherever you are - whether it's a game, film or piece of music - you can pull up the Guide (remember it from GDC?), which is a bit like a universal Start Menu, that allows you to look for friends, adjust playback and options, and even sort through people you've played against recently - listing them by reputation or what-have-you."

Sounds good. Really useful for the friends list feature.

"The System blade offers greater control over your individual settings. You can specify, for example, that you prefer to invert the right analogue stick camera control and this will then be picked up on in any game you play."

Also good, as I prefer inverted and hate having to change it in every bloody game I own.

The parental controls also sounds nice.

"If you yank the hard disk off the top of the Xbox 360 when it's in the middle of doing something, it will not corrupt it beyond repair or damage the File Allocation Table or anything like that - the hard disk uses a "transaction model" so that if you interrupt a transfer the data simply isn't present and the space is presumably reallocated when you next save data to it."

Hrm, good, that was something I was wondering about.

Also the ring of light signal sounds useful, nice proactive solution to "which one of your assholes keeps hitting pause?".

The mp3 player being able to stream when connected is sweet, I'm sure I'll get some use out of that.

The Media Player Extender tie-in with Vista sounds fantastic. Especially since it'll obviously be hacked and you'll be able to stream any type of video in no time.

I'm also interested in the camera. It'd be interesting to finally see high-bandwidth video streaming on the TV finally, and the keyboard plugin is a nice option.

Good stuff. I'm still torn about getting the 360 at launch though. The game lineup does look good, but I've been burned as an early adopter far too many times. I'll have to "wait and see".

It's nice to finally see simple bullet points instead of having to interpret what MS is trying to get across.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

09-01-2005, 07:07 PM

I can think of one: It's pointless. Apart from fixed-resolution displays like LCD, DLP and plasma, it's far better to simply display DVDs using 480p. Adding more pixels means adding more artifacts, and if you have a set with a 480p display mode (which includes virtually all CRT-based displays, direct-view and projection) it's best to stick with that. Heck, even those fixed-resolution displays have internal scaling which is probably better than something added as an afterthought to a game console.

A good upconverter, outputting in 1080i, will often produce better results on a CRT HDTV than a progressive-scan DVD player that's outputting at 480p. CRTs can accept signals in a number of resolutions, but often the set is optimized for only one of those resolutions (usually 1080i, since that's what people are interested in when they look for an HDTV) and anything besides that will result in degraded quality. The fact that fixed-resolution displays are becoming increasingly common as costs come down is another argument in favor of upconversion.

As for the notion that upconversion shouldn't be included with a console because other scalers might do a better job (I say "might" because a number of fixed-resolution sets and projectors have pretty dismal internal scaling), well, that same argument could be used against progressive scan DVD playback, or DVD playback in general. But given that Microsoft is clearly aiming for more of a set-top box than a pure, dedicated gaming console, simply saying "we won't implement it because there's other components that can do the same job" would be rather self-defeating.

JazGalaxy

09-01-2005, 08:17 PM

I got the most recent PS2, which doesn't require the remote.
Take the fanboy hat off for a second and tell the truth.

If there's a fanboy in here, it's not me.

http://www.dvd.reviewer.co.uk/reviews/hardware.asp?Index=4924

What that doesn't mentoin is that there is a specific region that the patch also fixed. I'm still looking for a link to that one, though.

nonchalance

09-01-2005, 08:30 PM

Actually anything past, like, second generation PS2's required you to buy hte remote to play DVDs because of an "update" that came on the memory card.

This is a factually untrue statment.

Whether the Sony remote requires an update to work properly is irrelevant.
Whether the Sony remote requires an IR sensor plugged into the PS2 to work is irrelevant.
Whether the Sony remote doesn't work in some regions without a patch is irrelevant.

No version of the PS2 requires a remote to play DVDs.

JazGalaxy

09-01-2005, 09:10 PM

Crimson

09-01-2005, 09:10 PM

If there's a fanboy in here, it's not me.

http://www.dvd.reviewer.co.uk/reviews/hardware.asp?Index=4924

What that doesn't mentoin is that there is a specific region that the patch also fixed. I'm still looking for a link to that one, though.
Yes, thank you for bringing us the article... from 2001. We all know that nothing has changed since then. All recent PS2s have the IR sensor built in to it. In fact many stores only sell the remote without the IR sensor. DVD progressive scan works out of the box, and does not require any additional items. Sure it's more convenient to watch DVDs with a remote or even a Cordless Logitech controller, but you don't have to buy them. When I bought my Sony remote, it worked right there, no additional memory card space was needed. Ultimately though I ditched it, as my universal remote now can relay all the needed signals to the PS2 when I watch DVDs on it.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

09-01-2005, 10:59 PM

You're misreading dingus. The DVD player wouldn't play certain region dvds without the patch. I know this for a fact because it's the reason my brother couldn't play the shaolin soccer DVD I got him for christmas until he installed the update.

It's called "region coding." Most DVD players have it. Unfortunately the ability to play DVDs from anywhere in the world is not a standard feature in most DVD players and can only be accomplished via a hack or (in the case of the PS2 and Xbox) third-party add-ons. Expecting Sony or Microsoft to allow region-free DVD playback in their consoles without recourse to unauthorized tools like DVD Region X is pretty naive IMO.

Ninja 20XX

09-01-2005, 11:05 PM

But yeah some people are just dicks and will always give bad feedback, hopefully they'll take that into account in the Live system.

I think that's how the feedback system works - players who only leave negative feedback and rarely any positive, their feedback is considered less damning as someone who leaves both positive and negative. People who only do negatives may just be poor sports who think everyone who beats them is 'cheating'. Those who do both are actually trying to make the overall community a little better by rewarding good players as well as trying to flag offenders.

I think the best part of Live on the 360 is the ability to exclude players from matchmaking with you for any reason. This is the best of both worlds - it lets you maintain a personal blacklist based on your criteria of what you find offensive and it doesn't depend on that criteria matching up with officially ban-worthy offenses to remove that individual permanently. I don't care if someone gets kicked off of Live as much as I do not having to deal with them again. Out of sight, out of mind.

Eventually, this is going to help like-minded players migrate toward one another and the consistently offensive players are going to find it difficult to get into a match, which is better than an official ban: if you ban someone, their first reaction is going to get back in and get 'revenge'. If they quit using Live of their own accord because they've been such an asshat that most players have banned them from matchmaking, they'll either move on and not come back or maybe start not being such an asshat so they can actually use matchmaking.

Lynxara

09-02-2005, 12:17 AM

Without that it's a bit like saying whoop, I have Porch and it can *gasp* get into first gear.

That's awesome, though. My porch is always stuck in neutral. =(

nonchalance

09-02-2005, 01:33 AM

You're misreading dingus. The DVD player wouldn't play certain region dvds without the patch. I know this for a fact because it's the reason my brother couldn't play the shaolin soccer DVD I got him for christmas until he installed the update.

Leaving aside the region-coding that applies to most DVD players, how does that translate to this?
Actually anything past, like, second generation PS2's required you to buy hte remote to play DVDs because of an "update" that came on the memory card.

Morratut

09-02-2005, 01:40 AM

Eventually, this is going to help like-minded players migrate toward one another and the consistently offensive players are going to find it difficult to get into a match, which is better than an official ban: if you ban someone, their first reaction is going to get back in and get 'revenge'. If they quit using Live of their own accord because they've been such an asshat that most players have banned them from matchmaking, they'll either move on and not come back or maybe start not being such an asshat so they can actually use matchmaking.

I'm also loving this rating feature too. I think it's going to be great when your only matchmade with people with good ratings :)

I encountered one guy last night who thought he was a god just because he was a lvl29 and he was just mouthing off :rolleyes: I find it funny how people can be so retarded. He would have received bad feedback :D

I'm a bit peeved though i need to buy a £17.99 cable to i can play the 360 on my 32" Sony SD TV via my RGB scart socket :(

codswallop

09-02-2005, 03:02 AM

In Australia, that'll be $499 and $649, at a rough guess.
At the current exchange rates, it's $390 and $520.

Of course, the PS2 came out at $799 from memory, so did the original PlayStation. Can't remember the Xbox but I think it was $699 or $799 too.

codswallop

09-02-2005, 03:05 AM

That's awesome, though. My porch is always stuck in neutral. =(
Maybe it's because of the door, or the stairs? Perhaps the furniture on it?

Either way, I wouldn't mind seeing a porch driving down the street.

bapenguin

09-02-2005, 04:34 AM

Kelegacy

09-02-2005, 05:56 AM

Good stuff. I'm still torn about getting the 360 at launch though. The game lineup does look good, but I've been burned as an early adopter far too many times. I'll have to "wait and see".

It's nice to finally see simple bullet points instead of having to interpret what MS is trying to get across.

There is never any harm in waiting. (Unless you have a fat lump on your testicles that turns out to be malignant) In the case of purchasing a console, patience can pay off in spades. The system will always be there for when you decide to pick it up, whether it be day 1 or day 581.

RicoSuave77

09-02-2005, 06:29 AM

I'm guessing the reason they aren't supporting up conversion right now is because of all the strict guidelines a player must follow if it allows upconversion. You also need to have HDMI/DVI to output the upconverted signal (another restriction).

And upconversion is more of a gimmick than anything... just like upconverting 11khz/8-bit audio to 44.1/16-bit won't give you CD-quality sound, you can't create new video data out of thin air. There may be a very very minor improvement, but it's more of a placebo effect than any measurable improvement.

TrackZero

09-02-2005, 07:22 AM

There is never any harm in waiting. (Unless you have a fat lump on your testicles that turns out to be malignant) In the case of purchasing a console, patience can pay off in spades. The system will always be there for when you decide to pick it up, whether it be day 1 or day 581.

Exactly. I'm thinking I'll wait until the PS3 is released and the price drop happens. They should be on the 2nd or 3rd revision by then, hopefully with the HD-DVD drive installed as well (though that's not really a big factor to me).

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

09-02-2005, 06:05 PM

And upconversion is more of a gimmick than anything... just like upconverting 11khz/8-bit audio to 44.1/16-bit won't give you CD-quality sound, you can't create new video data out of thin air. There may be a very very minor improvement, but it's more of a placebo effect than any measurable improvement.

This isn't really the point of upconversion. Upconversion is meant to provide a 1080i (or 720p or 768p or whatever) input for displays not optimized for standard-definition inputs; in these situations an upconverted source may look better on that particular display, even if the upconverted image isn't necessarily superior to the original standard-definition source.