EGM: FFVII remake not coming anytime soon?

[Red Cloak]

From the latest EGM, looks like IF Square-Enix made the FF7 remake with the same level of production as the E3 demo, it would take quite a long time and manpower:

Yoshinori Kitase: If the team decided to make (FFVII) for PS3 with that kind of quality (tech demo), it would take 5 years and a team of 300 people. Characters models would be incredibily detailed, where you can change equipment and clothes and have them carried onto battles, fields and cinema scenes.By the looks of the quote, either the final product wont be up to the level of the E3 demo or we are going to be waiting 5 years for this remake. The question is, will anyone care in 5 years? :confused:

[mkelehan]

Or they could spend a few months making a slightly better looking version for the PSP, so we can play it anywhere.

[StoneGut]

Does the quoted ammount of time and size of development team reflect all / most of the Next Gen games? If so... we're $%^@#'ed. I can't wait 5 years to play those types of games... no sir.

[StrifeSnake13*]

well considering that the story, characters, and concept is already done in a FFVII remake, 5 years seems like an exhageration. Does this mean that a new FF game (FFXIII) will take longer than 5 years to make? I dont think that's very likely, 3 years seems more likely to me. This seems like an excuse to not do a remake to me.

[AnthraxKitty]

yea, it's always good to take anything EGM has to say seriously at all, ever.

not saying they're wrong, but it's not like they'd really be pulling a nostradamus with this one.

[Red Cloak]

It's a direct quote, take it or leave it. But it is the director of the FFVII remake.

[Heretic Machine]

By the looks of the quote, either the final product wont be up to the level of the E3 demo or we are going to be waiting 5 years for this remake. The question is, will anyone care in 5 years?

I didn't care five minutes ago.

[gsmith]

That technology demo did not imply that you could change your equipment and have it reflected in your appearance. Indeed, that wouldn't be very like Final Fantasy 7 if you could, since the game didn't have armor in the traditional sense. Why is that an assumption in this estimate?

[bobbler]

Yoshinori Kitase is on crack.

EGM is too.

I think that is all there is to say...

[Orphiuchus]

I think that in 5 years the game may actually do better, because nobody will remember the origonal. It will be fresh, but it will still have the final fantasy name recognition.

[Kelegacy]

If people still care about FF7 right NOW, then yes, they will still care in 2010. That game is a classic and will always be considered great. People will care. I dont know if I want it remade, but oh well. I wouldnt want Ultima 7 (my fav. game of all time) remade, but if it was I'd still give it a gander...

[KDups]

Oh jesus does this talk of a FF7 remake ever end? The recent remakes I've played have been really cool (RE Remake and Conker), but at the end of the day I realized I had already played these games and I knew what was coming up next. All those pretty graphics couldn't hide that fact.

In a nutshell - if it comes it comes, just stop talking about it. Go play the PS1 version to reignite your love of Cloud.

[JazGalaxy]

Yeah, that quote made no sense. 5 years? The demo already had Aeris and Cloud taken care of, and it's not like there are THAT many charachters in the game.

What's great though, is that this leads even more credence to the fact that nothing shown at the PS3 E3 conference has anything to do with real world output from the console.

[nonchalance]

What's great though, is that this leads even more credence to the fact that nothing shown at the PS3 E3 conference has anything to do with real world output from the console.
That's not great at all.
That sucks donkeys.

Sure, we all knew the presentation had about as much basis in reality as Final Fantasy does, but didn't just a itny part of you wish it was true?
Wouldn't it have been fucking awesome if detail like that actually happened?

I think it would have been, and I think your rejoicing in this is misplaced.

[Chris_D]

5 years for a remake? Go get yourself a better team then.

[bean19]

This is interesting.

I'm convinced that the answer lies in making better development tools than in spending years and years on making incredible graphics.

The next step in computer graphics will be out-sourcing. Someday some smart big name developer is going to design an easy-to-use graphics program that builds graphics in units that are easy to adapt to code. Then U.S. and Japanese artists will make physical models of all the character art in the game and send it off to China or India to be turned into graphics by warehouses full of graphical artists.

[KDups]

The demo already had Aeris and Cloud taken care of, and it's not like there are THAT many charachters in the game.

By taken care of do you mean a limited (*limited*) number of animations and facial movements? So with the character models they've gotten 1/1,000,000 of the work done. Sweet.

[JazGalaxy]

That's not great at all.
That sucks donkeys.

Sure, we all knew the presentation had about as much basis in reality as Final Fantasy does, but didn't just a itny part of you wish it was true?
Wouldn't it have been fucking awesome if detail like that actually happened?

I think it would have been, and I think your rejoicing in this is misplaced.

Perhaps. But, as a person who spent a great deal of time over at the Gamespy forums trying to get idiot fanboys to realize that the Killzone demo was NOT actually a game and that an actual Killzone game would look little to nothing like that, it's nice to see a little dose of reality poking through the clouds. Sony is a company that practices pretty shady tactics, and their E3 presentation, as well as their being shifty and avoiding outright saying that very littel of the stuff they showed had any real world software counterpart has me wishing they would be exposed sooner rather than later.

[bean19]

By taken care of do you mean a limited (*limited*) number of animations and facial movements? So with the character models they've gotten 1/1,000,000 of the work done. Sweet.

You think they physically created each facial animation instead of making middleware? Even for a small job, middleware seems like it would be much faster.

Not that this alone makes the job much faster. They still have to do the animation with that middleware and then animations for every character. . . they all fight differently and they all have special attacks to animate. Not to mention the summons and limit breaks. All of these things have to be animated from scratch with each game.

Then there are all the FMVs to map, and for a AAA RPG nowadays, they will need to add voice-acting (although this is small in terms of time consumption).

Every backdrop will need to be remade. . . they'd probably remake these in 3D instead of using pre-renedered backdrops too.

Don't forget the tons of mobs and bosses in the game that require individual bits of art and animation.

. . . . . . yeah, unless they make better development tools, I don't know if we will see many quality RPGs. Those we do get are likely to be MMOs. I'd so buy a FF VII MMO. It would be a dream come true to play a unique character in that world.

[Paranoia]

Would a remake even justify the cost of developing the game? Usually remakes won't be as big as the original (think Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes for the Gamecube).

[bean19]

Would a remake even justify the cost of developing the game? Usually remakes won't be as big as the original (think Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes for the Gamecube).

Good question. I'm much too much of a fanboy for Final Fantasy to venture an opinion. Of course I'd like to say "yes, it will sell even MORE copies!" and I can think of a lot of supporting arguments for that opinion, but this is too close to me for obejctivity.

[nonchalance]

Sony is a company that practices pretty shady tactics, and their E3 presentation, as well as their being shifty and avoiding outright saying that very littel of the stuff they showed had any real world software counterpart has me wishing they would be exposed sooner rather than later.

Ah, now I get you.
In that context, fair enough.

Me too. But still, with Xbox 360 practicing money-grubber-upgrade-beast, and PS3 being absurd, that leaves the next-gen with Revolution, which we know nigh-on nothing about.

I'm a little worried, is all.

[Zeal]

Yoshinori Kitase: If the team decided to make (FFVII) for PS3 with that kind of quality (tech demo), it would take 5 years and a team of 300 people. Characters models would be incredibily detailed, where you can change equipment and clothes and have them carried onto battles, fields and cinema scenes.

This tells me right there that people can't expect graphics anywhere near the pre-rendered Killzone bullshit. If PS3 games can't even match the level of the E3 tech demos, people better get ready to accept dissapointment.

[JazGalaxy]

Ah, now I get you.
In that context, fair enough.

Me too. But still, with Xbox 360 practicing money-grubber-upgrade-beast, and PS3 being absurd, that leaves the next-gen with Revolution, which we know nigh-on nothing about.

I'm a little worried, is all.

I think microsoft's price point is pretty fair. You get a LOT of stuff in that 400 bundle. In fact I haven't seen a console come with that much stuff since the old NES power pad bundle. If you pretended the PS2 cost 299 again, then added in the price of the remote, plus a memory card, plus a hard drive, you would be at 299 easily. And that's without a headset and wireless controller.

I'm really excited to see what NIntendo has in store. The gamecube sucked, in my opinion, and I know because I had one. The GBA sucks, to me, because of the amount of reselling happening of old games I bought years ago. But the DS, it looks like, is the system of the millenium, it looks like, where games are concerned. If the Revolution can come up with games that look as interesting as the stuff the DS has coming out, then I can't wait.

[nonchalance]

I think microsoft's price point is pretty fair. You get a LOT of stuff in that 400 bundle.

No issue with the price point. I should have clarified that. My issue is with the 'broken system at a propaganda price point that people will need to upgrade, and upgrade, and upgrade' thing.

And the additions, and the other additions.

More to the point, their introduction of an upgrade requirement and multiple systems to the console market pisses me off immensely.

I'm really excited to see what NIntendo has in store. ... But the DS, it looks like, is the system of the millenium, it looks like, where games are concerned. If the Revolution can come up with games that look as interesting as the stuff the DS has coming out, then I can't wait.

Yeah.
For those of you who don't live in Australia, where Nintendo went to sleep.
The PSP launches tomorrow, with more decent games than the DS has out after being released six months ago.
Quite literally, we have maybe two decent games out for DS - Mario 64 and Warioware Touched.

And I'm a DS fan, and a DS owner.

[mister_slim]

The next step in computer graphics will be out-sourcing. Someday some smart big name developer is going to design an easy-to-use graphics program that builds graphics in units that are easy to adapt to code. Then U.S. and Japanese artists will make physical models of all the character art in the game and send it off to China or India to be turned into graphics by warehouses full of graphical artists.
I believe EA outsourced a fair amount of the NFS:U2 art to somewhere on the Pacific Rim. Had to get the yearly sequel in stores for Christmas and all.

For those of you who don't live in Australia, where Nintendo went to sleep.
The PSP launches tomorrow, with more decent games than the DS has out after being released six months ago.
Quite literally, we have maybe two decent games out for DS - Mario 64 and Warioware Touched.
Well, the same thing happened in the US, really. Pretty good launch, but not much of interest since. And the DS is finally getting some interesting software. It's hard to be sure, but there doesn't appear to be much interesting for the PSP coming by Christmas. GTA, Burnout, not much else.

[DCJoeDog]

Translation of quote

"The FF7 tech demo was not real time, and to make it real time would need a shit load of time to make it, sorry we lied to your faces at E3."

[Bushido]

They should change the name to E3 LiesExpo

[rainbowblack]

SE should be shot point blank, FFVI is clearly in need of a nex-gen makeover. if it werent for the complete whoring of FFVII. i would support this project

its not like the fanbois wouldint gobble it up anyway

[DCJoeDog]

Only three games of SQUARE will ever get my money from now on, and they've already been made

FF6, FF7, and Chrono Trggier

I have all three, and if they make remakes they will get more, I have given up COMPLETELY supporting Sqaure since those titles, and especially since the SE merger

[tvgm2]

Only three games of SQUARE will ever get my money from now on, and they've already been made

FF6, FF7, and Chrono Trggier

I have all three, and if they make remakes they will get more, I have given up COMPLETELY supporting Sqaure since those titles, and especially since the SE merger

But what about Driving Emotion S?

[Gigadafud]

do they really need want to create a remake of this game? i know i would not buy it. i am not going to buy the exact same game that has better graphics.

[Kelegacy]

do they really need want to create a remake of this game? i know i would not buy it. i am not going to buy the exact same game that has better graphics.

Hundreds of thousands of others did with Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil remakes for Gamecube. Millions of users do it with Madden every year.

[JazGalaxy]

They should change the name to E3 LiesExpo

I think techically that would be the "E2 Lies Expo"...

But I think it should just be sony that gets branded with that.

"Directly after the microsoft and nintendo confrences we have the sony Den Of Lies to go to..."

[IagoTheHunted]

well considering that the story, characters, and concept is already done in a FFVII remake, 5 years seems like an exhageration. Does this mean that a new FF game (FFXIII) will take longer than 5 years to make? I dont think that's very likely, 3 years seems more likely to me. This seems like an excuse to not do a remake to me.

No that sounds about right... development times are going to skyrocket in the next gen as far as hyper-realistic graphics are concerned. And remember that the demo wasn't realtime, it wasn't optimised and didn't nead to have an entire level loaded, including every possible action the player can make. The time required to make a scene like that interactive is huge, and as always it comes down to what the artists are capable of, hardware and tools have very little to do with how good something looks, it only expands the potential the artists can work with.
Figure it like this, in two weeks a skilled and practiced professional artist can make:
200 small sprite graphics, animation built in to art. OR
20 or so low poly assets, probably not animated. OR
1 high poly character, not animated.

That shit is HARD. It's no wonder FPS games and racing/sports sims are most of what we're seeing for next gen... those games have very few art assets. The cars/players/fighters and a few environments are all their are, repeated over and over durring gameplay. But and RPG??? Massive massive quantity of assets, literally thousands of objects and characters/monsters need to be built for a full length RPG. It's a next-gen nightmare.

[Grimgrock]

Maybe this was mentioned already but maybe not. I really enjoyed the first half of FFIII (US Version) (I moved out before I could finish it). If they are going to remake a FF game, that is the game they ought to remake. FFVII was PS generation. FFIII was super nintendo generation. Incidently, I am aware there is an anthology PS version of FFIII (but not called that, I think it's FFV - please correct me if I'm wrong). Anyway, that was a good first step but I thought FFIII was far better than FFVII. My opinion, of course.

[DCJoeDog]

But what about Driving Emotion S?

pfft, what about it?

[JazGalaxy]

Maybe this was mentioned already but maybe not. I really enjoyed the first half of FFIII (US Version) (I moved out before I could finish it). If they are going to remake a FF game, that is the game they ought to remake. FFVII was PS generation. FFIII was super nintendo generation. Incidently, I am aware there is an anthology PS version of FFIII (but not called that, I think it's FFV - please correct me if I'm wrong). Anyway, that was a good first step but I thought FFIII was far better than FFVII. My opinion, of course.

That one is actually Final Fantasy 6... the one right before Final Fantasy 7. I agree with you that it is the better game, though.

[DCJoeDog]

Yeah, we've seen FF7 in 3D, crappy 3D but still

Now if they were to make Chrono Trigger and FF6 in 3D... OMFG!!!

[mister_slim]

That shit is HARD. It's no wonder FPS games and racing/sports sims are most of what we're seeing for next gen... those games have very few art assets. The cars/players/fighters and a few environments are all their are, repeated over and over durring gameplay. But and RPG??? Massive massive quantity of assets, literally thousands of objects and characters/monsters need to be built for a full length RPG. It's a next-gen nightmare.
Not to mention all the secondary details. With the PS FFs they could just draw a spray of flowers or some debris, but now it all needs to be modeled, animated, and correctly built into the physics system.

I wonder when we'll see wind-tossed and dewy flowers that are properly animated and lit. And where's my properly-spatialized ambient noise?

[Phades]

I'm really disappointed to hear Sony say this. I knew that all those E3 demos weren't real, but I was certainly hoping they'd be close. I hate Sony now. I just know that when we finally get to see playable PS3 games they're going to look exactly like Xbox360 games. That is, good but certainly not mind blowing.

[Rommel]

I thought the point of using polygons was that once you have built the character models using grid points and have overlaid them nicely with nurbs or whatever is the current tech, you just have to enter commands for manipulation. Shouldn't this make things a lot quicker?