Crytek Says No More PC Exclusives!

[H.Bogard]

PC Play has posted an interview (http://www.pcplay.hr/modules.php?r=23) with Crytek President Cevat Yerli, talking about the release of their next-generation PC shooter, Crysis, and dropping the bombshell that Crytek will no longer be supporting PC gaming with exclusive titles.

PC Play: How do you estimate the current state of the PC gaming industry? Some say that it's only a matter of time when it's going to finally die-off, the others say that "the big one" is only getting its comeback pace.
Considering Crysis is a PC-exclusive title, what do you think of its market reception and its future? Skeptics would say that it's pretty risky going PC-exclusive with such a high-profile title.

Cevat Yerli: It is certainly. We are suffering currently from the huge piracy that is encompassing Crysis. We seem to lead the charts in piracy by a large margin, a chart leading that is not desirable. I believe that’s the core problem of PC Gaming, piracy. To the degree PC Gamers that pirate games inherently destroy the platform. Similar games on consoles sell factors of 4-5 more. It was a big lesson for us and I believe we wont have PC exclusives as we did with Crysis in future. We are going to support PC, but not exclusive anymore.
Do you think that every pirated copy is a lost sale? Discuss!

[Whimbrel]

So they are expanding their market to make games that won't run on most consoles either?

[Furious Wang]

Crysis did shitty sales because you need a hardcore XXL top of the line computer to run the thing. A large portion of the individuals with top of the line hardcore XXL computers are pretty tech savvy and some of the biggest pirates. But it doesn't really matter because Crysis would have had shitty sales even if no one pirated it - very few computer systems can run the game!

[jeffbax]

Meh, Piracy is one thing but what do you expect to happen to a game that people can't run? Do you want them to buy it and then be pissed? :shrug:

[Chaos Machine]

watch when starcraft 2 sells a metric fuckton of units and we shall see if piracy is a factor

[H.Bogard]

Crysis did shitty sales because you need a hardcore XXL top of the line computer to run the thing. A large portion of the individuals with top of the line hardcore XXL computers are pretty tech savvy and some of the biggest pirates. But it doesn't really matter because Crysis would have had shitty sales even if no one pirated it - very few computer systems can run the game!

Failed argument. (http://www.fragland.net/news/Crysis-sells-1-million-copies-12-patch-details/18490/)

Next please.

[Adam Blue]

Yeah, there's no way Crysis will run on current-gen consoles. But hopefully they use their talent to put out more titles. I was actually just thinking about this today. Crysis is incredible from every aspect.

[Lithium Flower]

A lost potential sale perhaps but a sale? That could be debated.

There is the argument that pirated copies selling in smaller, remoter markets is in effect providing free publicity for the product in those markets. A market which would otherwise never be considered at all and thus could potentially open up that market to legitimate sales in the future once pirates have raised enough interest.

As for Crysis, I think the real reason the game hasn't sold as well as it should have are the mad system specs it requires. The restricted segment of PCs that can run Crysis well enough is probably the limiting factor.

And H.Bogard: you just bought your computer two months ago, which makes it brand spanking new. Yes, you come within the ambit of the 'restricted segment of PC's that can run Crysis well enough'.

[H.Bogard]

watch when starcraft 2 sells a metric fuckton of units and we shall see if piracy is a factor

As will FO3 and Spore. I think Spore might even kick SC2's ass... Never underestimate EA's marketing power.

[nonchalance]

I tend to take Stardock's view; 95% of the people who pirate games wouldn't have bought them anyway.

[fitbabits]

This is only a bombshell to those who've been stuck under a rock for the last few years. PC gaming is far from dead, but the gaming landscape has changed significantly since the heyday of PC gaming.

[Lithium Flower]

What are they complaining about anyway. Greedy bastards! (http://www.fragland.net/news/Crysis-sells-1-million-copies-12-patch-details/18490/)

[H.Bogard]

Maybe they just want a piece of the console cash too... they refused to degrade the game for consoles the first time, maybe now they're just accepting to that view?

[PsychoticVile]

I was stoked for this game but the demo was so bad I didn't buy and don't ever plan on it after seeing reviews

[Heretic Machine]

I absolutely do not care. I've never bought or played a Crytek game, and from what they've shown me, I doubt I ever would. They're graphics whores in a very extreme way, and really don't see to care about a whole lot else. Really, would anyone here choose Crysis over The Orange Box?

[Lithium Flower]

Maybe they just want a piece of the console cash too... they refused to degrade the game for consoles the first time, maybe now they're just accepting to that view?

So why not just come out and say that? "We think releasing a PC exclusive is a mistake because we can sell even more if we port it to that many consoles. We didn't think of this before."

[H.Bogard]

So why not just come out and say that? "We think releasing a PC exclusive is a mistake because we can sell even more if we port it to that many consoles. We didn't think of this before."

Because that'd contradict their previous praises and promises for the platform.

[Adam Blue]

I absolutely do not care. I've never bought or played a Crytek game, and from what they've shown me, I doubt I ever would. They're graphics whores in a very extreme way, and really don't see to care about a whole lot else. Really, would anyone here choose Crysis over The Orange Box?

Too bad you'll miss out then. Considering how short and linear the singleplayer portion of the OB is, Crysis wins hands down. It's a huge mother fucking sandbox with the greatest graphics in the world. Not only that, but the AI and physics are top-notch.

Don't knock it till you've tried it.

[Xerxes]

Yeah, there's no way Crysis will run on current-gen consoles. But hopefully they use their talent to put out more titles. I was actually just thinking about this today. Crysis is incredible from every aspect.

If scaled down and optimized, I'm sure Crytek can still make it look like the greatest thing on ps3/xbox 360 consoles. High end PC good; of course not. Hell, most people in the world can't even get that unless you are a PC Game whisperer like H.Bogard.

[Dr.Finger]

Whether or not Crysis was a failure, it was perceived by most of the gaming public as one. I know it sold a million units, but that's the label that sticks to it.

I think Crytek unfortunately doesn't know which way it wants to go. Do they want to be an engine designer/maker first and a game maker second, the way Epic and id run their businesses now, or are they a game maker that just happens to make a hell of an engine?

[H.Bogard]

If scaled down and optimized, I'm sure Crytek can still make it look like the greatest thing on ps3/xbox 360 consoles. High end PC good; of course not. Hell, most people in the world can't even get that unless you are a PC Game whisperer like H.Bogard.

I love you too.

*gets smashed*

[Xerxes]

Whether or not Crysis was a failure, it was perceived by most of the gaming public as one. I know it sold a million units, but that's the label that sticks to it.

I think Crytek unfortunately doesn't know which way it wants to go. Do they want to be an engine designer/maker first and a game maker second, the way Epic and id run their businesses now, or are they a game maker that just happens to make a hell of an engine?

I wonder if they need money so that they can grow big enough to do both. I think their engine could sell like hotcakes if it was consolable.(see what i did there.) How many teams do they have?

[Slack3r78]

Whether or not Crysis was a failure, it was perceived by most of the gaming public as one. I know it sold a million units, but that's the label that sticks to it.

I think Crytek unfortunately doesn't know which way it wants to go. Do they want to be an engine designer/maker first and a game maker second, the way Epic and id run their businesses now, or are they a game maker that just happens to make a hell of an engine?

Their problem is they're a tech demo developer that thinks they're a game design company.

EDIT:

To clarify: They make amazing engines. They even put together some interesting play mechanics. I don't, however, think they're very good at putting the whole package together. They're desperately in need of a first-class designer on the team.

DOUBLE EDIT:

iD has the same problem, but are far more self-aware of it.

[Xerxes]

I love you too.

*gets smashed*

Dude, you post kick ass screens and have claims of 50fps on full res, when others who claim to be doing the same can't get squat. Whisperering is the only explanation. :D

[GrinR]

Crysis didn't have the required server-key model in place. If Starcraft 2 was single-player only it would be pirated even more than it already will (which is to say up the mother fucking ying-yang) because even the legitimate gamers will be tempted to just steal it.

It seems obvious to me - the only successful protection is online play combined with server cd-keys.

[GrinR]

H Bogard if you don't make "Game Whisperer" your fucking title, you're a fool. That's the funniest thing I've read all day (except for that nonsense about Duke Forever coming out.)

[H.Bogard]

...

I hate you all! Stop staring at me!

*runs away crying*

About that framerate, I DID post my benchmarks, god dammit!

[Voodoo]

Their problem is they're a tech demo developer that thinks they're a game design company.

EDIT:

To clarify: They make amazing engines. They even put together some interesting play mechanics. I don't, however, think they're very good at putting the whole package together. They're desperately in need of a first-class designer on the team.

DOUBLE EDIT:

iD has the same problem, but are far more self-aware of it.

CryTek isn't all about games and their engines...

http://www.imagtp.com/

B6spFgJWClc&hl

I agree with your sentiment though that they are best as a engine developer and would do far better with a design team which are not developers. I just want to show that CryTek has more than games in their business portfolio.

[Xerxes]

Their problem is they're a tech demo developer that thinks they're a game design company.

EDIT:

To clarify: They make amazing engines. They even put together some interesting play mechanics. I don't, however, think they're very good at putting the whole package together. They're desperately in need of a first-class designer on the team.

DOUBLE EDIT:

iD has the same problem, but are far more self-aware of it.

id should just by Raven. Get them in house and close to the engine from jump. :D That way they can stop attempting to make games.

[Xerxes]

...

I hate you all! Stop staring at me!

*runs away crying*

About that framerate, I DID post my benchmarks, god dammit!

I remember. Hey, I have this beast of a machine. Damn thing is stubborn. Some say it can't be tamed. Think you could, do your thing? ;)

[Slack3r78]

CryTek isn't all about games and their engines...

http://www.imagtp.com/

B6spFgJWClc&hl

I agree with your sentiment though that they are best as a engine developer, and would do far better with a design team which are not developers.

Interesting, but, from what I can tell, IMAGTP is a third-party French company which is just using CryEngine for architectural demo renderings. Neat idea, but not the first time it's been done (I've read of other companies doing similar work with UE in the past, for example).

[tombofsoldier]

Is ever pirated copy a "lost sale"? No, of course not, economics 101 even states this. But it certainly isn't helping. Which is bad, I like the pc :(

[51|RandoM]

No PC exclusives drops Crytek from being very interesting to being just another mediocre FPS engine house. Pushing tech to the limit is the draw of their games, not the marvelous plotting and in-depth character development.

[Slack3r78]

No PC exclusives drops Crytek from being very interesting to being just another mediocre FPS engine house. Pushing tech to the limit is the draw of their games, not the marvelous plotting and in-depth character development.

The same could be said for another prominent developer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3), in all honesty.

[Telefrog]

Too bad you'll miss out then. Considering how short and linear the singleplayer portion of the OB is, Crysis wins hands down. It's a huge mother fucking sandbox with the greatest graphics in the world. Not only that, but the AI and physics are top-notch.

Don't knock it till you've tried it.

The singleplayer portion of OB is "short and linear" now? You could make a case for linear certainly, but short? Really?

I've played Crysis. I'll take a hundred copies of OB before I play that retarded twaddle in Crysis again. Pretty? Sure. Cool tech? Certainly? Story? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

[H.Bogard]

I remember. Hey, I have this beast of a machine. Damn thing is stubborn. Some say it can't be tamed. Think you could, do your thing? ;)

You can start by Fed-exing the bitch to Pakistan. :p

[Grey]

Bombshell: Crytek says no more PC exclusives!

http://www.abload.de/img/onozpvt.gif

[Xerxes]

You can start by Fed-exing the bitch to Pakistan. :p

I'll sooner shoot it, and make glue out of it. :D

[Adam Blue]

I don't understand why people don't think Crysis is a good game. It's fucking fun as hell. You see an enemy encampment up ahead and decide how to go about it. I can use my rocket launcher and blow up the gas station to create a diversion. Or I can cloak in and take out the enemies stealthily...or, I can sneak around that entire side of the island to get behind the base and try to get to the objective. While literally blowing up structures.

And no, it couldn't be optimized to the 360 and PS3 and still look as good. There are settings in affect that I have never seen before and make the game look like an actual fucking movie. Seriously. Did it win best graphics of '07? If not, that's just wrong.

Crysis = best graphics in the next few years.

[Xerxes]

No PC exclusives drops Crytek from being very interesting to being just another mediocre FPS engine house. Pushing tech to the limit is the draw of their games, not the marvelous plotting and in-depth character development.

Wow... After seeing you, everything seems, sensible.

I actually would say if they could make their engines scale better it's a plus for everyone. Or even keep making their main hardcore PC engine and have another team just for sculpting it into a console engine. They could be the BEST mediocre fps engine house in the land. Push the PS3 and 360 to the limits. Get some of the console only devs on board with fancier graphics.

[Xerxes]

I don't understand why people don't think Crysis is a good game. It's fucking fun as hell. You see an enemy encampment up ahead and decide how to go about it. I can use my rocket launcher and blow up the gas station to create a diversion. Or I can cloak in and take out the enemies stealthily...or, I can sneak around that entire side of the island to get behind the base and try to get to the objective. While literally blowing up structures.

And no, it couldn't be optimized to the 360 and PS3 and still look as good. There are settings in affect that I have never seen before and make the game look like an actual fucking movie. Seriously. Did it win best graphics of '07? If not, that's just wrong.

Crysis = best graphics in the next few years.

What does the game look like when you strip it all the way to the lowest settings? How does it run? How can you say it can't be optimized? Look as good as what? I'm referring to the best thing out on consoles. NOT high end PC looking.

Just to put it out there I haven't played Crysis. I can't say if it's good or not. My PC just got to the point where I can play Guild Wars and WoW maxed. I think anymore would put the old girl on it's back. One of these days I'll get one of those fancy computers, but no time soon.

[Grey]

What does the game look like when you strip it all the way to the lowest settings?

terrible, like most PC games when you do that.

I'm referring to the best thing out on consoles. NOT high end PC looking.

that would be what? Most (modern) console games are somehow on the same level... didnt see any 360/ps3 game that reaches recent PC games in some factors like shadow rendering and texture resolution.

[Adam Blue]

Trust me. If you haven't played Crysis, there is something fucking amazing to be seen whenever you have the chance...I can't describe it. But, I can understand why people weren't raving about this like Halo 3 - the specs are way too high, even for the average gamer. I can play with max settings, but come to too many places with frame rate issues...but what I see is absolutely unfuckingbelieveable. So, I scale down to High with 2x AA...and what I've played is incredible. So immerse with endless possibilities.

There will be a Crysis revival in the future when everyone can run it.

[Xerxes]

terrible, like most PC games when you do that.
Figures... lol


that would be what? Most (modern) console games are somehow on the same level... didnt see any 360/ps3 game that reaches recent PC games in some factors like shadow rendering and texture resolution.

Cause they all use UE 3. :D

[zipR]

Is there a PC game that hasn't been pirated? I would think that systems like Steam would help cut down on piracy, but don't have anything to do with pirated games so I have no idea...

[shiznit]

Crysis did shitty sales because you need a hardcore XXL top of the line computer to run the thing. A large portion of the individuals with top of the line hardcore XXL computers are pretty tech savvy and some of the biggest pirates. But it doesn't really matter because Crysis would have had shitty sales even if no one pirated it - very few computer systems can run the game!
You are wrong on all counts, mr. console fanboy. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Crysis sold over a million units world wide, people need to stop quoting NPD U.S.-only retail numbers, in countries like Germany and Sweden PC is the majority of the game market. 1 million units in PC world is huge, and those profits are really nice because there are no royalty fees to Sony or MS.

The requirements are not bad at all, a 8800GT can be found for under $150 and I finished the game with custom high/very high settings using one and averaged well above 30fps while looking better than any game ever made. My girlfriends PC is my old AMD Opteron 170 with 2gb ram and a 7900GTX (all of which you could probably buy today for the price of a Xbox 360, nevermind the cost of a HDTV) and runs the game at medium/high settings and it still looks better than anything on console.

Sales of this game were hurt by two things, the media and piracy. Period. The retarded gaming press who have no clue how PC hardware works or the relationship between GPU, CPU, memory, AA, AF, etc, shit on this game by telling the world that you needed a $7000 PC to play it (remember that idiot from 1up Yours?). Many less hardware savvy gamers heard this nonsense and got scared that the game would blow up their Dells and didn't buy it.

The iso was leaked 3 days before release and I remember seeing 5000+ seeds on Mininova alone before a single retail copy was sold, and it is the most active torrent game iso in the last 6 months. Crysis didn't have compelling multiplayer like COD4 so most people simply had nothing to lose by downloading it. Once they beat the single player Torrent version, they had no incentive to buy it.

[Wyrm]

I don't understand why people don't think Crysis is a good game. It's fucking fun as hell. You see an enemy encampment up ahead and decide how to go about it. I can use my rocket launcher and blow up the gas station to create a diversion. Or I can cloak in and take out the enemies stealthily...or, I can sneak around that entire side of the island to get behind the base and try to get to the objective. While literally blowing up structures.

And no, it couldn't be optimized to the 360 and PS3 and still look as good. There are settings in affect that I have never seen before and make the game look like an actual fucking movie. Seriously. Did it win best graphics of '07? If not, that's just wrong.

Crysis = best graphics in the next few years.

Because it's not a good game.

At the most basic definition, for me, a game is something that is fun. That is completely subjective of course, but like most people that frequent these forums, I've played lots of games, and I like to think I have a fair opinion of what's good and bad. In the same regard, I've played a shit ton of shooters, good, bad, and in between.

Crysis is not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination. Like Far Cry, there are some really neat things to it. It's beautiful, it offers you some interesting options for dispatching opponents, and it has a reasonably interesting premise (interesting, until it actually gets going).

That's about all it has going for it. The most important aspect of a first person shooter, which a lot of them don't seem to understand, is the shooting, and like Far Cry, the gun play lacks in almost every possible way. It's bland and uninteresting, with the only interesting feature that Crysis added to the formula being that you can tweak your weapon at any time.

Then there are the vehicle sections, which suck fucking nuts. Anytime you are forced to use a vehicle, it plays and controls awful, and simply isn't fun.

What of the story? Aside from the fact that it so desperately wants to be an Alien film, which, it emphatically proves that it isn't time and time again, it's not original, the dialog is terrible, and the characters are predictably retarded.

I'm sorry that it takes more in a shooter than really pretty foliage to get me excited, but the simple fact is, Crysis is a fun little tech demo made by a technology company masquerading as a game company. The truth is that they're not fooling anyone who knows the difference.

[Kagger]

id should just by Raven. Get them in house and close to the engine from jump. :D That way they can stop attempting to make games.

Someone should tell Raven to make Jedi Knight 4

[Adam Blue]

Eh, I'm still going to disagree. I have more fun finding my way through an island in Crysis than trudging a linear path in HL2.

A lot of it has to do with the fact that people can't play it. I was there.

[Wyrm]

Eh, I'm still going to disagree. I have more fun finding my way through an island in Crysis than trudging a linear path in HL2.

A lot of it has to do with the fact that people can't play it. I was there.

I have a top of the line machine, and I ran Crysis at some seriously sick settings, and I'm telling you (which you already know) it looks fantastic.

But the difference between Crysis and Half Life 2, is that I actually cared enough about the story to stick with it for the duration. Another difference is that the enemies in HL2 are actually fun to shoot at.

[TheKeck]

Do you think that every pirated copy is a lost sale?
Of course not.

[Grey]

I have a top of the line machine, and I ran Crysis at some seriously sick settings, and I'm telling you (which you already know) it looks fantastic.

But the difference between Crysis and Half Life 2, is that I actually cared enough about the story to stick with it for the duration. Another difference is that the enemies in HL2 are actually fun to shoot at.

Dont you think that this was probably caused due the *immense* hype?

I read complains about the no-fun-gameplay of Crysis all the time and wonder why, because I played many shooters that totaly lacked of story and immersion but were still hell of fun to play. El Matador for example.

Crysis just adds fantastic graphics to that - and *with* that there comes also new ways - like mentioned above.

I didnt play it becaus i *cant* run it(at least not at maximum, and thats what I want. everything or nothing, thats the way :> ) - though I played the MP and SP demo and cant think of it as a bad game at all. Guess I would like it even more as the OB, which I played through once and even abandoned TF2 over the time.

[ElfShotTheFood]

I was stoked for this game but the demo was so bad I didn't buy and don't ever plan on it after seeing reviews

The game has an average score of 91% (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/931665.asp) on both Game Rankings and Metacritic (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/crysis?q=crysis), so in what way are reviews keeping you from buying the game? :confused:

[H.Bogard]

You are wrong on all counts, mr. console fanboy. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Crysis sold over a million units world wide, people need to stop quoting NPD U.S.-only retail numbers, in countries like Germany and Sweden PC is the majority of the game market. 1 million units in PC world is huge, and those profits are really nice because there are no royalty fees to Sony or MS.

The requirements are not bad at all, a 8800GT can be found for under $150 and I finished the game with custom high/very high settings using one and averaged well above 30fps while looking better than any game ever made. My girlfriends PC is my old AMD Opteron 170 with 2gb ram and a 7900GTX (all of which you could probably buy today for the price of a Xbox 360, nevermind the cost of a HDTV) and runs the game at medium/high settings and it still looks better than anything on console.

Sales of this game were hurt by two things, the media and piracy. Period. The retarded gaming press who have no clue how PC hardware works or the relationship between GPU, CPU, memory, AA, AF, etc, shit on this game by telling the world that you needed a $7000 PC to play it (remember that idiot from 1up Yours?). Many less hardware savvy gamers heard this nonsense and got scared that the game would blow up their Dells and didn't buy it.

The iso was leaked 3 days before release and I remember seeing 5000+ seeds on Mininova alone before a single retail copy was sold, and it is the most active torrent game iso in the last 6 months. Crysis didn't have compelling multiplayer like COD4 so most people simply had nothing to lose by downloading it. Once they beat the single player Torrent version, they had no incentive to buy it.

Heavens no. Now you'll be labelled a whisperer too! :rolleyes:

[Lunar Blue]

I don't understand why people don't think Crysis is a good game. It's fucking fun as hell.

Hah, I know, it's hilarious. Even my brother blasted the game until the idiot finally played it through and thought it was great. People don't care, their perception of the game is what matters. It's not good and it's a failure, as has already been stated by few in this thread. Then again, I've yet to play Halo 3 and I think it's likely as shitty as the earlier ones and Cod4 has nothing on Crysis from a gameplay perspective. Flame on drones.

[Benny]

The singleplayer portion of OB is "short and linear" now? You could make a case for linear certainly, but short? Really?

I've played Crysis. I'll take a hundred copies of OB before I play that retarded twaddle in Crysis again. Pretty? Sure. Cool tech? Certainly? Story? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

First of all...you're an idiot. Second, YES IT'S SHORT! When you can beat it in an afternoon, you call that short! Orange Box is the POSTER CHILD of short games! It's endorsed by "Midigets for Gaming"!! It's so short these people play it...

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/shortbus-46967.jpg

That "retarded twaddle" you were talking about was your lame-ass system that couldn't play the game, wasn't it? I'm done with you now...

[Chainblast]

I don't think piracy is the number one concern affecting the sale of PC titles. For that I would rank system requirements (the resources needed to run a game) followed by bugs and other technical mishaps that either take an unacceptable amount of time to repair or simply never get resolved. *glares at Rainbow Six Vegas 1 & "2"* When those two issues are dealt with in a meaningful manner then the issue concerning piracy should become more clear. Because right now it seems a lot of studios, including Crytek, are putting the onus on gamers/consumers for the "problems" facing PC game sales when it's at best only half the problem.

Honestly though, no one can justly frown on Crytek for wanting to expand their potential audience and secure a better flow of profit/return on the products they create. Consoles offer a substantially larger audience for the developer to offer their products to and that's a very difficult thing to ignore these days. Plain and simple, it's good business.

[RMan]

Yea, these guys just have a pretty skewed view of the market, methinks. I mean, similar games sell 4-5 times more? He's comparing Crysis to, what, Halo, CoD, GoW? He thinks their game has that kind of appeal/marketing/timing? While I don't support piracy by any stretch of the imagination, their views on that are rather off-base as well.

That being said, I think it makes perfect sense for them not do PC exclusives. They make graphics centric shooters, and the new home for that kind of game is clearly the 360. To not support the primary platform for the type of game they make would be quite foolish.

[PathMaster]

I tend to take Stardock's view; 95% of the people who pirate games wouldn't have bought them anyway.

Exactly. In all honesty, do we really think that all the pirates are customers, or even potential customers? Many pirate simply because they can. Think of it this way, if bit torrent (or any method) did not exist, would sales actually increase by any substantial sum?

I also think that quote will be edited by the company somehow. It seems too definite.

[Satertek]

I tend to take Stardock's view; 95% of the people who pirate games wouldn't have bought them anyway.

Exactly. Stardock seems to be the only sane developer out there. Piracy is not this new thing that has come along to kill PC gaming. It has always been around (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xfqkdh5Js4). It can't be beaten. The question is that would anyone who pirated a game have ever bought it anyway? I'm guessing most people who pirate games are foreigners from countries with weak currencies or 24 and under unemployed kids.

If you haven't yet, take a few minutes to read how they see it (http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/post.aspx?postid=303512).

Also, like others have mentioned. It doesn't really make sense for Crytek to be crying piracy when the game sold over a million units.

[Abash Alarmist]

Their software would sell better if the game wasn't a glorified tech demo that can't even be ran at it's highest levels on even the fastest consumer machines.

Another reason why Crysis hasn't sold well is that is a mediocre game where only the graphics are AAA. Everything else is low-B.

[abso]

No point buying a game for 50 bucks that either won't run, or won't run well on my current setup, nor on the next setup I might buy. I'm sure it's already been said, but I think the sales suffered because people didn't want to waste their cash on something that wouldn't run. When you can pick the thing up for 20 bucks, then the risk-reward gets to a much more manageable level. I feel bad for them, because the game looks really amazing. But I'm not going to shell out 50 bucks for a slide show.

[H.Bogard]

Few people read the thread, and just post after going through the headline.

[Disgustipated]

And no, it couldn't be optimized to the 360 and PS3 and still look as good. There are settings in affect that I have never seen before and make the game look like an actual fucking movie. Seriously. Did it win best graphics of '07? If not, that's just wrong.



You're right. It couldn't look quite as good as it does on the PC, but they could make a 360/PS3 port that looked very, very good.

[Disgustipated]

First of all...you're an idiot. Second, YES IT'S SHORT! When you can beat it in an afternoon, you call that short! Orange Box is the POSTER CHILD of short games! It's endorsed by "Midigets for Gaming"!! It's so short these people play it...

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/shortbus-46967.jpg

That "retarded twaddle" you were talking about was your lame-ass system that couldn't play the game, wasn't it? I'm done with you now...

Wow, why don't you take a seat in the corner? Talk about pot calling the kettle black.

You honestly think you can beat Half Life 2, Episode One, and Episode Two along with Portal in an afternoon? You're a fool, but I think your post exclaims that fact loudly enough for anyone that bothers to read it.

[ElfShotTheFood]

You honestly think you can beat Half Life 2, Episode One, and Episode Two along with Portal in an afternoon?

If you've played Half-Life 2 before (as most people have) and don't want to play it again, then yes, I'd say the other three could be taken down in about half a day. ;)

[H.Bogard]

Wow, why don't you take a seat in the corner? Talk about pot calling the kettle black.

You honestly think you can beat Half Life 2, Episode One, and Episode Two along with Portal in an afternoon? You're a fool, but I think your post exclaims that fact loudly enough for anyone that bothers to read it.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (http://youtube.com/results?search_query=half+life+2+speed+run)

[Furious Wang]

You are wrong on all counts, mr. console fanboy. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Actually, you have no clue what you are talking about. I've been a pc-centric gamer forever. My computer actually can (and has) run Crysis. But the majority of PC gamers cannot.

Crysis sold over a million units world wide, people need to stop quoting NPD U.S.-only retail numbers, in countries like Germany and Sweden PC is the majority of the game market. 1 million units in PC world is huge, and those profits are really nice because there are no royalty fees to Sony or MS.

1 million units in this case is not so huge. Consider the cost spent developing such a top notch graphics engine. Consider reduced profits from distribution in foreign territories (world-wide figures). I'm pretty sure EA is taking a hefty slice of any profits that roll in. And CryEngine2 isn't exactly tearing up the licensing scene at the moment. But hey, maybe in the future it will.

The requirements are not bad at all, a 8800GT can be found for under $150 and I finished the game with custom high/very high settings using one and averaged well above 30fps while looking better than any game ever made. My girlfriends PC is my old AMD Opteron 170 with 2gb ram and a 7900GTX (all of which you could probably buy today for the price of a Xbox 360, nevermind the cost of a HDTV) and runs the game at medium/high settings and it still looks better than anything on console.


How do you justify the highest requirements of any game available as being "not bad at all"? And please pass me a link to whichever site you are buying your "under $150" 8800gt's from. And no, your girl's opteron 170 and 7900gtx running Crysis at medium and 15 fps does not look better than anything on consoles. Unless maybe you're comparing screenshots.

Sales of this game were hurt by two things, the media and piracy. Period. The retarded gaming press who have no clue how PC hardware works or the relationship between GPU, CPU, memory, AA, AF, etc, shit on this game by telling the world that you needed a $7000 PC to play it (remember that idiot from 1up Yours?). Many less hardware savvy gamers heard this nonsense and got scared that the game would blow up their Dells and didn't buy it.

I'm quite positive that the pc gaming press knows a bit about pc hardware. And I didn't even know a 7000$ pc existed. But, if you wanted to buy a new Dell pc that was capable of running Crysis at ~60 fps at a high setting, then yes, you would be paying 2,000-3,000$. Regardless, the media pretty much gave the game overwhelmingly positive reviews. So I don't think they really did much to hurt sales by themselves.

And, like I said from the beginning, the "hardware savvy gamers" are the ones who are pirating the game to begin with. Did you purchase your copy? How about the one for your girlfriend's computer?

When a company makes a game that only "hardware savvy gamers" can run, then its inevitable that that game is going to be heavily pirated.

The iso was leaked 3 days before release and I remember seeing 5000+ seeds on Mininova alone before a single retail copy was sold, and it is the most active torrent game iso in the last 6 months. Crysis didn't have compelling multiplayer like COD4 so most people simply had nothing to lose by downloading it. Once they beat the single player Torrent version, they had no incentive to buy it.

Every major PC and console release is usually leaked before its street date. Crysis is nothing special in that regard.

[shiznit]

Heavens no. Now you'll be labelled a whisperer too! :rolleyes:
I don't get it lol

[shiznit]

Actually, you have no clue what you are talking about. I've been a pc-centric gamer forever. My computer actually can (and has) run Crysis. But the majority of PC gamers cannot.
My bad for assuming, the tone of your post confused me. When I think of PC gamers, I think of actual gamers, not people who buy the Sims or World of Warcraft. These people buy good hardware, infact in an interview with Relic devs, they said that in their efforts to track piracy of Company of Heroes, they found out there are disproportionately more people buying high end video cards vs their games, even though the hardware costs much more. People now look at single player PC games as basically free and and use this reasoning to justify spending more on hardware.

1 million units in this case is not so huge. Consider the cost spent developing such a top notch graphics engine. Consider reduced profits from distribution in foreign territories (world-wide figures). I'm pretty sure EA is taking a hefty slice of any profits that roll in. And CryEngine2 isn't exactly tearing up the licensing scene at the moment. But hey, maybe in the future it will.
We don't know how much money Crytek spent on development and how much they need to break even, but I will say that according to Crytek Far Cry sold 3 million copies so they made a good chunk of money, and most PC developers will be super happy to sell 1 million units. I'm not so sure about reduced profits from foreign distribution given the weak dollar and strong euro. Of course EA takes a cut, but don't tell me saving 20-30% from not having to pay Sony and MS royalties is no big deal.

How do you justify the highest requirements of any game available as being "not bad at all"? And please pass me a link to whichever site you are buying your "under $150" 8800gt's from. And no, your girl's opteron 170 and 7900gtx running Crysis at medium and 15 fps does not look better than anything on consoles. Unless maybe you're comparing screenshots.
$150 8800GT w/ lifetime warranty and Accelero S1 cooler, a $30 value (i use one myself and it keeps the card below 70C and makes no noise):
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1299163&highlight=8800gt

Anyone serious about PC gaming needs a good video card, if you don't want to buy one then go console or stick to Peggle. $150 to play every game on the market right now at good framerates and relatively high resolutions is not to much to ask imo. BTW, my girl's PC runs Crysis at 30fps with custom medium (some high) settings at 800x600, she still had fun playing it and couldn't care less about the resolution.

I'm quite positive that the pc gaming press knows a bit about pc hardware. And I didn't even know a 7000$ pc existed. But, if you wanted to buy a new Dell pc that was capable of running Crysis at ~60 fps at a high setting, then yes, you would be paying 2,000-3,000$. Regardless, the media pretty much gave the game overwhelmingly positive reviews. So I don't think they really did much to hurt sales by themselves.
The gaming press on internet sites for the most part is completely clueless about PC hardware and the relationship between various parts and game performance. Of course there are no $7000 PCs, I mentioned that because people at 1up were saying that's what it took to play Crysis.

And, like I said from the beginning, the "hardware savvy gamers" are the ones who are pirating the game to begin with.
I said the LESS hardware savvy gamers got scared of the perceived requirements, of course the people who buy 8800s know how to use Torrent, I never argued the opposite.

Did you purchase your copy? How about the one for your girlfriend's computer?
I did, and when I was done I gave it to my girlfriend, couldn't believe she actually wanted to play an FPS but stranger things have happened.

When a company makes a game that only "hardware savvy gamers" can run, then its inevitable that that game is going to be heavily pirated.
I agree, but Crysis is not exclusive to only hardware savvy gamers.

Every major PC and console release is usually leaked before its street date. Crysis is nothing special in that regard.
Many are yes, buy Crysis was especially bad. 5000+ seeds on each tracking site is not ordinary piracy.

[Deepsleeper]

I don't care if they make their next game on the PC, the PS3, the 360, the 2600, or what the hell ever. As long as I don't play halfway through it and then retarded monsters/aliens pop out and make the last half of the game a stinking pile, I'll be thrilled with whatever they make wherever they do it.

[trip1eX]

YEah it seems for the type of games they make they need to focus on consoles also.

Sad really as I'm a pcgamer and I think the mouse/keyboard is the ideal control scheme for fps. Maybe next gen MS and Sony can do something about that.

[Xerxes]

YEah it seems for the type of games they make they need to focus on consoles also.

Sad really as I'm a pcgamer and I think the mouse/keyboard is the ideal control scheme for fps. Maybe next gen MS and Sony can do something about that.

Yeah but console gamers wouldn't agree so there's the problem for MS and Sony, that they don't about. :o

[ubartehbarbarian]

generally I prefer to pay for games if I can afford it. but when money's tight...

[Hellstorm]

Did Zero Punctuation like this game? Because the opinion of an internet fad site is the one to go with.

[bjornbarspingvinen]

In general PC gamers are cheap and warez-prone mofos. I totally understand their decision.

[Hellstorm]

Sad really as I'm a pcgamer and I think the mouse/keyboard is the ideal control scheme for fps. Maybe next gen MS and Sony can do something about that.
Nintendo already did something about that THIS gen. Why wait?

[ZeroOmegaZX]

A game that only a very small fraction of its target audience can run = very poor sales = people downloading it just to see how crappy it runs on their systems

[shiznit]

Nintendo already did something about that THIS gen. Why wait?
because Nintendo's console isn't capable of running games even close to Crysis or any other decent shooter.

[D.D.D.]

PC Play has posted an interview (http://www.pcplay.hr/modules.php?r=23) with Crytek President Cevat Yerli, talking about the release of their next-generation PC shooter, Crysis, and dropping the bombshell that Crytek will no longer be supporting PC gaming with exclusive titles.

Do you think that every pirated copy is a lost sale? Discuss!

(Maybe it's been said but) I think perhaps every PC gamer that would need to spend more than just upgrading a video card would be more of a lost sale than a pirate's copy~ :rolleyes:

[Disgustipated]

If you've played Half-Life 2 before (as most people have) and don't want to play it again, then yes, I'd say the other three could be taken down in about half a day. ;)

Ok, that's totally missing the point. I doubt many people are going to play Episode 1 and 2 both in the same day.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (http://youtube.com/results?search_query=half+life+2+speed+run)

Ok...? People who have played the games before try to go through again as fast as they can? That really proves a point... because everyone who hasn't gone through it before is going to go as fast as they can to try to create a record! :rolleyes:

Like I said, The Orange Box has a shitload of content. It'd take most people 1-2 weeks to beat all all of the games in there, and then they've got Team Fortress 2. "Benny" is still a douche.

[Lutheran]

First of all...you're an idiot. Second, YES IT'S SHORT! When you can beat it in an afternoon, you call that short! Orange Box is the POSTER CHILD of short games! It's endorsed by "Midigets for Gaming"!! It's so short these people play it...

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/shortbus-46967.jpg

That "retarded twaddle" you were talking about was your lame-ass system that couldn't play the game, wasn't it? I'm done with you now...

The OB had HL2/EP1/EP2/Portal and more and your calling it short? I liked Crysis too but to beat on the OB as a rebuttal to Crysis hating is nuts..

[Grey]

Many are yes, buy Crysis was especially bad. 5000+ seeds on each tracking site is not ordinary piracy.

GTA IV: Over 7000 on *one* site...

If youre going this way and counting seeders, most times the 360 Versions have way more ppl. seeding it. I made that experiment with FoW a time ago since ppl. started to argue with these numbers and it had almost the double amount of seeders for the 360 version.

[ElfShotTheFood]

Ok, that's totally missing the point. I doubt many people are going to play Episode 1 and 2 both in the same day.



Why not? They're both only around three hours long apiece.

[maverick106]

I tend to take Stardock's view; 95% of the people who pirate games wouldn't have bought them anyway.

I dont think thats true at all. I think your average pirate pirates a lot of games, not just a single one. They want all of these games, but they probably wouldn't buy each and every one of them if piracy weren't an option. I think they would probably buy a portion, between 1/4 and 1/2. So, in a way, I would say that each pirates copy is a loss between 0.25 and 0.5 sales.

That adds up.

[nonchalance]

I dont think thats true at all. I think your average pirate pirates a lot of games, not just a single one. They want all of these games, but they probably wouldn't buy each and every one of them if piracy weren't an option. I think they would probably buy a portion, between 1/4 and 1/2. So, in a way, I would say that each pirates copy is a loss between 0.25 and 0.5 sales.

That adds up.

As an ex-pirate, I disagree.

I'd maybe have bought one in ten of the games I pirated, but maybe not even that.

[f1sh3r]

First of all...you're an idiot. Second, YES IT'S SHORT! When you can beat it in an afternoon, you call that short! Orange Box is the POSTER CHILD of short games! It's endorsed by "Midigets for Gaming"!! It's so short these people play it...

you beat hl2, hl2 ep 1, hl2 ep 2 and portal in an afternoon?

[H.Bogard]

Ok...? People who have played the games before try to go through again as fast as they can? That really proves a point... because everyone who hasn't gone through it before is going to go as fast as they can to try to create a record! :rolleyes:



I was just shitting on your post. :D

[Kem0sabe]

I think the priacy issue is blown out of context by the developers. I dont think most of the people pirating these games were going to buy legit copies if the game wasnt pirated.

[roboninja]

AdamBlue, you make me want to try out Crysis. I played the demo, and while the graphics were incredible, and some of the situations fun, I just did not get any "oomph" from the weapons. It just seems to take like 20 bullets to take down a guard, and ammo always seemed in short supply... Maybe there is an unlimited ammo cheat I can use? I am not above using cheats in games whatsoever.

EDIT: The piracy issue is overblown, as it always is. When I was a young lad, I had over 200 Commodore 64 games, of which only around 10 were bought copies. This is hardly a new phenomenon; it predates the Internet, for fuck's sake.

[Phanto]

watch when starcraft 2 sells a metric fuckton of units and we shall see if piracy is a factor

True to that.

Even if there is a big percent of piracy on the PC market, Blizzard is one of those companies that even if most people pirate the game when it comes out it will still sell like hot cakes and I'm not talking about World of Warcraft here.

[WaltJay]

I don't think every pirated copy is a lost sale at retail, but I think it's fair to say a reasonable percent are. Maybe 10% to 20%. Most people would play any game for free, but of that population, the majority probably wouldn't pay $49.99 if no pirated copy existed (or pay that after playing a pirated copy).

I think the day of PC exclusives that aren't MMOs is over, and game distribution will be moving more towards Steam or Steam-like services that help circumvent piracy and offer wider profit margins on each sale as compared to B&M/boxed copy retail.

[Benny]

Wow, why don't you take a seat in the corner? Talk about pot calling the kettle black.

You honestly think you can beat Half Life 2, Episode One, and Episode Two along with Portal in an afternoon? You're a fool, but I think your post exclaims that fact loudly enough for anyone that bothers to read it.

I wouldn't say I did unless I actually did it. I don't have time for lies and half-truths Mr. Kettle. Both of the two expansions are extremely short games. Period.

[Dukefrukem]

Meh, Piracy is one thing but what do you expect to happen to a game that people can't run? Do you want them to buy it and then be pissed? :shrug:

I think this is 100% correct. they're blaming piracy for a game that barely runs on the best PCs out there... Gimme a break. All the people who pirated their game, probably just wanted to see if the fucking thing would run before they paid $50 fucking dollars for it.

[Benny]

you beat hl2, hl2 ep 1, hl2 ep 2 and portal in an afternoon?

I never said I beat Half-Life! We are talking about the Orange Box and the two extremely short episodes here. Portal isn't included either although that itself is a short game too.

[Fartacus]

Every pirated copy doesn't have to be a lost sale to make piracy damaging to the industry. As long as lost sales due to piracy > gained sales due to piracy it will be damaging.

Software pirates suck.

[Lutheran]

because Nintendo's console isn't capable of running games even close to Crysis or any other decent shooter.


Metroid 3 looks pretty damn good , the Wii is perfectly capable with the right developer making the game.

[lockwoodx]

I was stoked for this game but the demo was so bad I didn't buy and don't ever plan on it after seeing reviews

Exactly the reason I decided to cancle my preorder too. The Online multiplayer was so unbalanced it wasn't worth it.

[iPlay_nada]

excuse me if someone mentioned this, but I only read the first 1.5 pages of posts and didn't wade through the rest of it...

piracy isn't the problem. it's been around the PC world since before the remergence of console dominance for gaming

music piracy was supposedly destroying music but instead we end up with multiple outlets for legal, downloadable music. are people still pirating music? yes. but is iTunes starting to remind us of those days when we all waited to see how many "billion served" the McD's sign would be this year?

everyone is forgetting that console gaming was at one point almost dead... sagging sales, people disappointed with the price of the consoles... preferring the amazing graphics and performance of PC based games...

Now, since consoles offer graphics that are just as good as PC games (ones that everyone can run... not just the Crysis people) the tide has shifted once again to everyone buying $300+ consoles.

And unfortunately, the PC game market has reached a dead-end IMO.

Many gamers are happy to play on consoles only... the era of people just having a computer so they can play games doesn't make sense especially when that computer would have to be very expen$ive. consoles now offer a credible alternative to the PC which was for a time the only place to go for good gaming

to some of us, checking your email, playing games and having a myspace page is not THE reason we have computers

[Rommel]

My hypothesis on the matter is currently that there is a ratio of piracy to lost sales; more pirated copies per each sale that truly had been lost. The existance of piracy, especially as the act becomes more simple over time, is self-promoting and will attract those who were intending or would have purchased the game on impulse to either work through a torrent method or already have the title before an unplanned in store monetary exchange would have been rendered. There is no doubt that people are willing to pay for entertainment, and any retail chain will know the viability of attracting its patrons to walk out with more than what they expected to, so by those two components of the thought problem it would be far more unlikely that piracy would not have any effect on sales.

There is, of course, another matter here laying under the surface. Even if every pirated copy of "Imagine the Source Engine on cocaine while a Mormon girl breaks her faith to give you a nice, sweet and tender, soft and slow blowjob" was downloaded onto a machine owned by a user who would have never purchased the game anyway - they are still committing theft. Piracy is so utterly transparent these days, with rapidshare sites and trackers floating in visible, defiant range of developers, that episodes of "Go fuck yourselves, PC Gamers!" have to be expected.

excuse me if someone mentioned this, but I only read the first 1.5 pages of posts and didn't wade through the rest of it...

piracy isn't the problem. it's been around the PC world since before the remergence of console dominance for gaming

music piracy was supposedly destroying music but instead we end up with multiple outlets for legal, downloadable music. are people still pirating music? yes. but is iTunes starting to remind us of those days when we all waited to see how many "billion served" the McD's sign would be this year?

everyone is forgetting that console gaming was at one point almost dead... sagging sales, people disappointed with the price of the consoles... preferring the amazing graphics and performance of PC based games...

Now, since consoles offer graphics that are just as good as PC games (ones that everyone can run... not just the Crysis people) the tide has shifted once again to everyone buying $300+ consoles.

And unfortunately, the PC game market has reached a dead-end IMO.

Many gamers are happy to play on consoles only... the era of people just having a computer so they can play games doesn't make sense especially when that computer would have to be very expen$ive. consoles now offer a credible alternative to the PC which was for a time the only place to go for good gaming

to some of us, checking your email, playing games and having a myspace page is not THE reason we have computers

Exactly which era are you referring to? The only time in which consoles have done poorly on a worldwide basis was following the crash of the early eighties. Surely you are not under the impression that players flocked from the NES, SNES/Genesis, Saturn/PSX/N64 or DC/PS2/Xbox/GCN generations of consoles - because those were widely successful times in console gaming.

[Slack3r78]

I never said I beat Half-Life! We are talking about the Orange Box and the two extremely short episodes here. Portal isn't included either although that itself is a short game too.

Okay, this guy is either a brilliant troll or a complete idiot, one.

http://steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=package&SubId=469&cc=US

[iPlay_nada]

My hypothesis... episodes of "Go fuck yourselves, PC Gamers!" have to be expected."

I agree completely. piracy isn't an excuse for a game not selling because there are high-end PC gamers out there, but it is a factor, as you've pointed out. even if a game has a low, low 10%-15% piracy rate compared to total units shipped, that's still the foam from the top of the software companies latte. The programmers work their assses off to make these cool games and we end up helping put them out of business by pirating their wares.

Exactly which era are you referring to? The only time in which consoles have done poorly on a worldwide basis was following the crash of the early eighties...

precisely. some of us here ARE as old as dirt

I didn't mean to say certain eras of consoles sucked after the late 80's crash... what I meant to say is that indeed PC gaming rocked it a lot harder than some consoles and for a long time people were in love with PC gaming.

I would say the heyday of the Saturn and the PSX were the beginning of the consoles SERIOUS erosion into the PC market.

it took awhile to have the numbers get big enough for people to notice but it did happen.

And I say this as someone who ONLY PC games now so I'm speaking from the side of the fence where the grass is indeed not the greenest.

the last console I ever owned was a DreamCast believe it or not

[sleepbox]

Sucks for gamers, great for dev$ and publi$her$

[tacitus]

If you've played Half-Life 2 before (as most people have) and don't want to play it again, then yes, I'd say the other three could be taken down in about half a day. ;)

First, I played half-life 2 AGAIN and I had a blast; and I replayed the orginal half-life. They were great the second time around.

If you can get through ep1, ep2, and portal (without cheating) in an afternoon maybe you should crank up the difficulty level for ep1 and ep2.

[H.Bogard]

GI interviews Valve :

Q: GamesIndustry.biz: How much is piracy a concern for Valve?

Doug Lombardi: Well, Steam allows us to eliminate "Day Zero" piracy - which is between gold and when the game's on the store shelves - and that's when all the real piracy, the damaging piracy happens.

Gamers are generally good people, right? They're pretty intelligent, you know, they usually have a job. They're not derelicts out on the street, looting and robbing all of the time. But when they've been hyped up on a project and they really want to play this game and they can't wait to play it...Maybe they bought a new computer or console just to play it, and it shows up on a torrent site and it's not at the store...Temptation's going to come into play.

But with Steam you can't, right? We tell you to pre-load the game, regardless of where you're going to buy it. Download it now so you're ready to play it the day it comes out. The disc that we send out is useless until we turn it on on launch day. So we don't have the problem of sending the disc to replication and having some punk grab it and put it on a bit torrent site and take the sales away from us.

We saw that in 2004 when we released Half-Life 2. Doom 3, Halo 2 and whichever version of GTA came out that year were all available on the pirate network before they came out at stores. The final version of the games. Half-Life 2 wasn't. The only difference was that Half-Life 2 had Steam anti-piracy stuff in place.

[Isamura]

We all know deep down that what they are saying is correct about these types of games (singleplayer storymode with weak Multiplayer aspect). We can try and justify our actions by saying "I wouldn't have bought the game anyways" but I think we've all made some impulse purchases that we never thought we'd make.

[Meatgortex]

I think the priacy issue is blown out of context by the developers. I dont think most of the people pirating these games were going to buy legit copies if the game wasnt pirated.

The problem is scale.

You won't find any developers complaining about a group of friends sharing a game they've bought with each other. But torrents, specifically torrents pre-retail release are seriously damaging.

People are throwing around 1 million sold in regards to Crysis. That number is sell-in not sell-through and a large amount of that is from hardware bundles with videocards or new PCs. The actual in store sales of Crysis are far below that.

The game has been downloaded several million times by now. So in the wild the ratio of pirated games to legit copies is easily over 10:1. If only 10% of those pirates would have actually bought the title then legitimate game sales would have doubled.

When you start seeing ratios like that you understand why so many developers have closed doors recently or shifted their focus on consoles, or casual web-based games.

[51|RandoM]

Wow... After seeing you, everything seems, sensible.

I actually would say if they could make their engines scale better it's a plus for everyone. Or even keep making their main hardcore PC engine and have another team just for sculpting it into a console engine.

hey, those two things would be great.

Guess what though, has it ever worked that way? No.
Is there any reason to expect it to work that way this time? No.

Want some history? Try Bethesda, Valve, and Bioware. Looking at the PC versions of their latest titles it is very easy to point at limitations that only exist because of conformance with their console versions.

Simply put, once you don't have all of your eggs in the PC basket you don't have any incentive to push the PC hardware beyond what you needed for your console versions. You don't have any need to take advantage of the inherent strengths of the PC, nor do you have any reason to remove the things you had to implement to make up for limitations of the console.

Looking at the interface of Oblivion should make what I am talking about quite clear to anybody. There is a reason the first mods for the PC version were interface mods.

[Xerxes]

hey, those two things would be great.

Guess what though, has it ever worked that way? No.
Is there any reason to expect it to work that way this time? No.

Want some history? Try Bethesda, Valve, and Bioware. Looking at the PC versions of their latest titles it is very easy to point at limitations that only exist because of conformance with their console versions.

Simply put, once you don't have all of your eggs in the PC basket you don't have any incentive to push the PC hardware beyond what you needed for your console versions. You don't have any need to take advantage of the inherent strengths of the PC, nor do you have any reason to remove the things you had to implement to make up for limitations of the console.

Looking at the interface of Oblivion should make what I am talking about quite clear to anybody. There is a reason the first mods for the PC version were interface mods.

:o
The UI looked fine in PC Oblivion. Of course, I'm not a PC gamer. Although Obilivion ran like shit on my computer every time I got into a fight. :(

But have any of the other teams been so graphic centric as Crytek. They might want to keep their hardcore status and try what I just said. At least until they make that console lewt.

[GargantulaKon]

Do you think that every pirated copy is a lost sale? Discuss!

Yes. One only feels the pain when you actually work among game developers.

The people who have the powerful computers (most people in these forums), who can run Crysis, know how to use Bitorrent and may be tempted to do so.

[51|RandoM]

:o
The UI looked fine in PC Oblivion. Of course, I'm not a PC gamer. Although Obilivion ran like shit on my computer every time I got into a fight. :(

But have any of the other teams been so graphic centric as Crytek. They might want to keep their hardcore status and try what I just said. At least until they make that console lewt.

The default UI is crap in PC Oblivion.

The fonts and the lists are sized for console players, made incredibly large so as to be legible on an SD TV.

The first mods out there provided fonts and list sizes more appropriate for a PC display. You can only see 8 things in a list at a time in the console version, why on earth should the PC version be bound by that same limitation? It shouldn't, and if the game had been PC exclusive I very much doubt it would have been. Just look at earlier Bethesda titles. The Oblivion UI is a step backwards in terms of UI.

Check out the map. Again the map is limited by the console versions.

I don't want my PC games dumbed down just because there is a console version, yet that is what I see happening all the time with multiplatform titles. If multiplatform titles do not take advantage of the PC's strengths then there is very little reason for me to play them on PC instead of console.

Why put up with the long list of negatives the console fans always spit out about PC gaming if the game is exactly the same on console?

What happens is that the PC version becomes solely a product to address those people who only have a PC, and not something that needs to compete with console games. It lowers the bar drastically.

[H.Bogard]

The default UI is crap in PC Oblivion.

The fonts and the lists are sized for console players, made incredibly large so as to be legible on an SD TV.

The first mods out there provided fonts and list sizes more appropriate for a PC display. You can only see 8 things in a list at a time in the console version, why on earth should the PC version be bound by that same limitation? It shouldn't, and if the game had been PC exclusive I very much doubt it would have been. Just look at earlier Bethesda titles. The Oblivion UI is a step backwards in terms of UI.

Check out the map. Again the map is limited by the console versions.

I don't want my PC games dumbed down just because there is a console version, yet that is what I see happening all the time with multiplatform titles. If multiplatform titles do not take advantage of the PC's strengths then there is very little reason for me to play them on PC instead of console.

Why put up with the long list of negatives the console fans always spit out about PC gaming if the game is exactly the same on console?

What happens is that the PC version becomes solely a product to address those people who only have a PC, and not something that needs to compete with console games. It lowers the bar drastically.

I think Bethesda is a poor example. Atleast Ubisoft and Bioware get their ports 'right'.

[williambraski]

id should just by Raven. Get them in house and close to the engine from jump. :D That way they can stop attempting to make games.

The fact that Activision owns Raven may make it hard for id to go and buy them

.... whoa didn't realize this was six pages already when I posted.

I seem to remember reading plenty of articles showing that piracy doesn't do the sort of "end of the world" damage most devs/pubs like to throw at people. The data, if any, being relied on to make that statement should be put out there. Otherwise it's just another CEO whining to get attention.

Hardcore shooter + market saturated with diverse gameplay offerings + insane hardware reqs = Not going to sell a billion copies

[Grey]

I think Bethesda is a poor example. Atleast Ubisoft and Bioware get their ports 'right'.

Hm kind of yea, but just compare the R6V serverbrowser with the 10 year old HL serverbrowser (ok since its steam now thats probably hard to do... anyway) - things like these are still totaly messed up (it might be a general issue with UE3 ports, since they *all* suffer from very crappy serverbrowsers which are almost all the same).

BioWare games are getting worse with every release. From the original D&D based deep RPGs too shallow "console"-RPGs (though I dont condemn that totaly since I like both sides of the coin, but compared to their former greatness I would say its a step backwards for the games itself)

It would have been different, if these games werent ports. The most exciting port which *almost* left nothing that would remind of it as an mp release was Call of Duty 4. It even has different config files for SP and MP, came out directly with all necessary options and features. Imo - besides Splinter Cell 1-3 - the best example for multiplattform releases ever.

[Steele Johnson]

Piracy is always the excuse that game devs give when:

A) The game isn't very good.
B) Gets shipped with serious defects.
C) Doesn't run on the average computer (must use a super computer).
D) Must blame poor sales on something other than their bad decisions.

So why does The Sims sell so well, because you can't pirate it? :)

[GargantulaKon]

Piracy is always the excuse that game devs give when:

A) The game isn't very good.
B) Gets shipped with serious defects.
C) Doesn't run on the average computer (must use a super computer).
D) Must blame poor sales on something other than their bad decisions.

So why does The Sims sell so well, because you can't pirate it? :)

I think it is because the audience that The Sims caters towards does not know how to use Bittorent.

[Mortanius]

"waaaa! Our game isn't selling much.. it must be pirates!"

[Xerxes]

The fact that Activision owns Raven may make it hard for id to go and buy them
Eh... Then who else ever uses the id engines for good? :confused:

[Steele Johnson]

"I think it is because the audience that The Sims caters towards does not know how to use Bittorent."

I doubt it. I'll bet you anything that the Sims has been pirated a lot more than Crysis.

[Rommel]

I agree completely. piracy isn't an excuse for a game not selling because there are high-end PC gamers out there, but it is a factor, as you've pointed out. even if a game has a low, low 10%-15% piracy rate compared to total units shipped, that's still the foam from the top of the software companies latte. The programmers work their assses off to make these cool games and we end up helping put them out of business by pirating their wares.



precisely. some of us here ARE as old as dirt

I didn't mean to say certain eras of consoles sucked after the late 80's crash... what I meant to say is that indeed PC gaming rocked it a lot harder than some consoles and for a long time people were in love with PC gaming.

I would say the heyday of the Saturn and the PSX were the beginning of the consoles SERIOUS erosion into the PC market.

it took awhile to have the numbers get big enough for people to notice but it did happen.

And I say this as someone who ONLY PC games now so I'm speaking from the side of the fence where the grass is indeed not the greenest.

the last console I ever owned was a DreamCast believe it or not

That crash was twenty-five years ago. I think you are stretching immensely to show a time in which PC Gaming has ever stolen users from consoles. Console sales have never slowed from a previous generation since 1983, and only have been expanding since the NES. PC Games have had positive and negative fluxes, especially during the periods of PC home ownership growth, but it has never impacted console sales in any appreciable way.

[tacitus]

How many freaken' FPS's do they think people will get ...

About the same time it came out there was orange box, Cod, and unreal tournament franchise offerings. Note - I seem to remember the UT folks whining as well.
Plus there was the surprise FPS hit - Bioshock... in the competition

And then you come to the plate - with something with a reputation of having incredible system requirements and then you wonder why it isn't selling as well as you hoped.

[Disgustipated]

Why not? They're both only around three hours long apiece.

Valve, using Steam, measured most play-throughs of both at just over 6 hours each.

[Purple Santa]

Valve, using Steam, measured most play-throughs of both at just over 6 hours each.

Reading this response was worth reading the whole thread...nice "oh snap" moment reading that...

[Benaiah]

Fuck I hate it how steam collects all this usage information. Doesn't it seem a little invasive to the rest of you what they can do with a trojan sitting on your computer? For all you know they could be silently watching your web traffic to see how many HL2 players wank to Jenna Jameson. Although its definately not as bad as Blizzards anti-cheat Guardian software, which I heard can read your emails, keystrokes and msn conversations.